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Speaker 1: This is Tony Pike, Cincy three sixty about Cincinnati.

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Speaker 2: From Cincinnati. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 3: Here we go our number two, since he three to

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Speaker 3: sixty ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station, Austin. We hope

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Speaker 3: that the phone lines are capable of enough to at

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Speaker 3: least connect us with our guy, Charlie Goldsmith here right.

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Speaker 4: I think I think it works, Charlie.

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Speaker 3: Hello, how are you.

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Speaker 2: Tony?

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Speaker 3: Is that you, Charlie? It's so good to hear your voice,

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Speaker 3: a voice of reason and leadership in these times.

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Speaker 2: How's Burk?

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Speaker 3: Why would you go right there, Charlie? Why would you

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Speaker 3: dive right into that? If there's one guy an ally

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Speaker 3: that I think I have that I'm going to talk to,

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Speaker 3: it's going to be you. So I'll ask you, then,

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Speaker 3: what'd you make of Wes Miller's post game comments last

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Speaker 3: night and the emotion behind them?

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Speaker 2: I wish that over the last five years I got

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Speaker 2: to get a better feel for Wes as a as

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Speaker 2: a as a person. One of the things that are

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Speaker 2: important to him? What are his interests? Just because now

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Speaker 2: you see a guy who it feels like you barely

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Speaker 2: got to know, you barely got to know really what

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Speaker 2: his basketball philosophy were, and then kind of what his

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Speaker 2: whole approach for building this whole thing was going to be.

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Speaker 2: You have all that and then you feel like it's

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Speaker 2: already over and you never really got to experience the

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Speaker 2: real thing. So, oh no, those are my emotions with

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Speaker 2: with UC basketball. I was there as well.

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Speaker 4: It was a tough one, very tough.

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Speaker 3: Let's just also clear this up because I know you

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Speaker 3: sent out a tweet about it as well. Ellie de

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Speaker 3: la Cruz wasn't just joy riding on a dart bike, right,

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Speaker 3: that was just a video shoot and then he got

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Speaker 3: off the bike.

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Speaker 2: You've got all the information I got. There was the

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Speaker 2: video with him all the bike, the Reds. Brad Metter

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Speaker 2: throw me put out a statement. Talk to Ellie. Ellie

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Speaker 2: was just doing a video, is what Brad told me.

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Speaker 3: Uh the uh, the the Reds and the old Baseball Classic.

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Speaker 3: I know Suarez is going to go play. Suarez is

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Speaker 3: a proven commodity. You know what you're getting out of Suarez.

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Speaker 3: You know where he's going to be in the lineup.

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Speaker 3: Talk to me a little bit about Edwin Arroyo, because

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Speaker 3: here's a guy that plays a spot in the field

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Speaker 3: where the Reds need some depth after moving on from

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Speaker 3: Gavin Lux and while spring training is going to be happening,

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Speaker 3: Edwin Arroyo will be participating in the World Baseball Classic.

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Speaker 3: How do you feel about kind of towing that line

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Speaker 3: if you're Edwin Arroyo of trying to make a roster

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Speaker 3: spot but also playing for your country.

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Speaker 2: I think if you could have given me one Reds

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Speaker 2: prospect who I would want the most in the World

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Speaker 2: Baseball Classic, it would be him. I don't view him

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Speaker 2: as a guy who's competing for first bottle on the team.

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Speaker 2: I kind of view him and roll your eyes. Obviously

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Speaker 2: this guy didn't work out, But to me, he feels

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Speaker 2: in a similar spot right now to the spot that

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Speaker 2: Jose Barrero was in entering twenty twenty one. Of course,

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Speaker 2: Barrera debuted in twenty but that was its own thing.

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Speaker 2: But starting the year in triple A, let's see how

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Speaker 2: hot the back gets. If there's a need at at

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Speaker 2: Royal's position in the middle infield, he they view as

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Speaker 2: important organizational depths. You know, if nobody wants this, But

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Speaker 2: if Lly rolls his ankle and it's June, Edward will

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Speaker 2: be an option, but then as hot as he gets

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Speaker 2: offensively will determine kind of his timeline to make the team.

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Speaker 2: And he's a fascinating guy. But I'll just kind of

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Speaker 2: say this too. With the World Baseball Classic, Puerto Rico

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Speaker 2: had all of the the insurance problems. They were impacted

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Speaker 2: the most. They're hosting. This was gonna be a huge

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Speaker 2: year for them, but then Correa and Lindor, two short stops,

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Speaker 2: couldn't get insured. So no pressure. Kid Edwin Arroyo thrown

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Speaker 2: into a team hosting with high expectations because they've got

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Speaker 2: a lot of talent playing a premium position. It'll be

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Speaker 2: a good chance for him to really stretch himself and

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Speaker 2: see where he's at.

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Speaker 3: Ellie day La Cruz the expected jump in the leap

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Speaker 3: that he can take year to year in his progression

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Speaker 3: as a major League baseball player, And obviously there were

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Speaker 3: the the injuries last year that he was playing through.

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Speaker 3: So he's going to start the season healthy. He's got

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Speaker 3: another full offseason under his belt, and now he has

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Speaker 3: protection in the lineup that he hasn't had in years past.

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Speaker 3: Where do you put the ceiling, Charlie on the type

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Speaker 3: of season Ellie de la Cruz can have could we

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Speaker 3: at the very top of it? Could you talk about

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Speaker 3: a guy in MVP considerations or what's that ceiling in your.

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Speaker 2: Opinion, I mean, he was an MVP conversations in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four on the lower end of the top ten,

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Speaker 2: but I mean in the way he was playing for

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Speaker 2: the first CEP at twenty five was the top five

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Speaker 2: to top ten MVP level performance we've seen it. I

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Speaker 2: think Suarez makes his life a lot easier. I think

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Speaker 2: what you felt so much from Ellie and the underdiscussed

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Speaker 2: thing of his second half was all right, we know

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Speaker 2: he had the quad, we know he had the mechanical

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Speaker 2: stuff he was working through. But then a part of

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Speaker 2: it as well was a guy who was stuck on

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Speaker 2: nineteen homers, who was in the worst slump of his life,

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Speaker 2: who had to carry a team, and you could feel

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Speaker 2: that like it was tough on Ellie individual and having

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Speaker 2: a guy in Suarez both logistically and kind of emotionally

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Speaker 2: behind him in the lineup, I think takes a lot

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Speaker 2: of pressure off him and I think makes it realistic

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Speaker 2: when you added the help as well to I mean,

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Speaker 2: I expect a career year from Eli in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 3: Andrew Abbott, one of the best pitchers on this staff

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Speaker 3: last year, is one of those players that maybe could

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Speaker 3: be in line to get an extension done. And the

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Speaker 3: Reds have done this in the past, They've tried to

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Speaker 3: do it with others. You see teams in Major League

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Speaker 3: Baseball get out of this a lot as well. Does

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Speaker 3: Andrew Abbot and an extension? Does that become a reality

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Speaker 3: between now and opening Day?

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Speaker 4: And your opinion it could.

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Speaker 2: Extension conversations in baseball are really difficult to nail down.

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Speaker 2: What I know is the Reds have talked to a

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Speaker 2: lot of these guys. The markets for extensions are very

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Speaker 2: kind of fickle when you bake an arbitration and kind

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Speaker 2: of the changing math, plus how some mystery collect and

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Speaker 2: bargaining agreement that would come next year, could you shake

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Speaker 2: up kind of the mass of how guys on their

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Speaker 2: rookie contracts get paid. But I know the Reds you're

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Speaker 2: interested in a lot of their young guys. I would

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Speaker 2: assume hap it's a part of that as well. But

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Speaker 2: these conversations typically very quietly happen around the league and

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Speaker 2: with the Reds. After the guy gets to spring training

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Speaker 2: and then you see them wrapped up around April before

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Speaker 2: or after opening day. So I would bet the conversations

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Speaker 2: kind of follow a similar timeline and we'll see if

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Speaker 2: something gets done or something doesn't get done.

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Speaker 3: We heard from Nick Krawl talking about spring training reps,

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Speaker 3: and while we just mentioned Edwin Arroyo's absence, South Stewart

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Speaker 3: is gonna get reps at first, second, third, Spencer Steeer

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Speaker 3: is gonna get reps at first and second, and in

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Speaker 3: the outfield as well, and left and right field. What

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Speaker 3: does this all mean for Matt McClain. Is this in

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Speaker 3: order to justify maybe the least being shorter for Mount McClain.

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Speaker 3: Is it just built in to get these guys reps.

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Speaker 3: Does anything that's happening or what we've heard from Nick

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Speaker 3: Krawl directly impact Matt McLain in your opinion.

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Speaker 2: Guy, it was just the question that we've talked about before,

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Speaker 2: is who's going to be the backup second basement on

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Speaker 2: the day where Matt needs off or when Ellen needs

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Speaker 2: off and Matt moves to short. Now if it's May

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Speaker 2: and he's hitting one ninety again, you know, let's open

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Speaker 2: a conversation. But how many times have we heard the emphasis,

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Speaker 2: the emphasis that the Reds are placing on defense, Pee

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Speaker 2: the Cabrian Hayes Straight and a bunch of other examples

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Speaker 2: as well. That emphasis on defense. One of the biggest

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Speaker 2: pieces of that is having an elite defender at a

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Speaker 2: premium position and second baseman Matt maclain and then and

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Speaker 2: this applies to a Row as well, and I didn't

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Speaker 2: get to say this when I was talking about him.

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Speaker 2: With both of those guys, something that's just a fact

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Speaker 2: in baseball is that guys aren't themselves in their first

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Speaker 2: full year back from shoulder surgery. I remember I wrote

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Speaker 2: about this in twenty twenty four when that had just

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Speaker 2: had the surgery, and that was a part of the

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Speaker 2: story of his twenty twenty five season. You, Sawn and

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Speaker 2: with Edwin as well. You saw the eggs of velocities

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Speaker 2: climb over the course of the year. And I think

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Speaker 2: the expectation is there more back to their real self.

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Speaker 2: I think claim should be a top half of the

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Speaker 2: order guy by the second half of the season. I'm

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Speaker 2: a MacLaine guy, but there's no competition right now for

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Speaker 2: that starting second base spot.

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Speaker 1: As you get set to go out to Arizona, Charlie

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Speaker 1: is there anything kind of under the radar that maybe

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Speaker 1: has slipped through the cracks that maybe we haven't talked

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Speaker 1: about very much, that you're interested in finding out about

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Speaker 1: about this ball club.

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Speaker 2: I think the hidden kind of guy is the Welby

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Speaker 2: Marthe when you look at the difference between the ceiling

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Speaker 2: and the floor, you look at the fact that, I

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Speaker 2: mean even last year, you know whatn't an unbelievable season,

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Speaker 2: but the fact that Loby was carrying this team. But

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Speaker 2: then he was cool in September and he got a

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Speaker 2: few days off, including one of the playoffs as well.

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Speaker 2: So like who he is with his first full year

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Speaker 2: and right field, the style of hitter he wants to be.

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Speaker 2: Kind of a mistake he made in twenty four was

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Speaker 2: chasing stardom by chasing power as opposed to, you know,

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Speaker 2: all away from the opposite field approach. That's such a

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Speaker 2: good foundation for his team. So when you look at

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Speaker 2: all right, like how are the Reds actually going to contend?

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Speaker 2: They need stars And you know, Gino's great, but it's Ellie,

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Speaker 2: it's really McLane and it's Marte as guys who have

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Speaker 2: to be capable of carrying this offense for the Reds

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Speaker 2: to really do it.

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Speaker 1: I kind of want to go back to, like the

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Speaker 1: extension thing there. I'm fascinated by what happened with the

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Speaker 1: Tigers and Trek school Ball and maybe the trickle down

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Speaker 1: effect that has. Does that maybe encourage a pitcher to

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Speaker 1: wait to sign an extension seeing that that a guy

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Speaker 1: like school Ball has won I mean, obviously the guy

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Speaker 1: that comes to mind as Paul Skeins, but also thinking

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Speaker 1: of it in the terms of the Reds, do you

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Speaker 1: think that would encourage guys to wait before signing an

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Speaker 1: extension or No.

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Speaker 2: This is so complicated that there's so much I don't

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Speaker 2: understand about the arbitration process. And I think what you

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Speaker 2: saw with Scooball was it raised the ceiling for the top, top, top,

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Speaker 2: top top pitchers who are going to have what they

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Speaker 2: would call in the arbitration process, something like special excemptions

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Speaker 2: based on incredible accomplishments or something like that. So like

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Speaker 2: Scooble did set a precedent now where the top guys

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Speaker 2: are going to do much better in arbitration. Now, how

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Speaker 2: does that impact a guy like Nick Gladola, who I

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Speaker 2: think is really good but probably isn't going to have

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Speaker 2: any like unbelievable accomplishments like top three and cy Young finish.

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Speaker 2: You know, maybe maybe, but that's not kind of the

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Speaker 2: projection for Lodola right now for this year. So you

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Speaker 2: know wh I'm going with this. I don't know whether

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Speaker 2: or not it in patch just the upper upper echelon,

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Speaker 2: you know, or if it filters down to your Nick

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Speaker 2: Lodola and your rabbit types.

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Speaker 3: Two other quick reds questions for you Hector Rodriguez, and

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Speaker 3: I know he's highly viewed by this organization. Is he

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Speaker 3: kind of next on the list of guys that could

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Speaker 3: could make an impact on this roster.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you asked about him because I think he's

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Speaker 2: a guy people need to talk about more. I think

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Speaker 2: his best lane to make the team at a spring

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Speaker 2: training kind of went away when they signed Suarez because

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Speaker 2: Suarez oldh and now zero play more left. But Hector

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Speaker 2: will be competing to make this team that Nick Cross

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Speaker 2: told me this, and I know that for a fact

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Speaker 2: because on September first last year, they were debating whether

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Speaker 2: or not to call up South or Hector Rodriguez. Everything

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Speaker 2: we saw from Salin September last year that could have

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Speaker 2: been Hector and a big part of the tiebreaker there

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Speaker 2: was just the fact that at the time Thearet's had

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Speaker 2: already had six outfielders. They were trying to get at

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Speaker 2: beats too, so adding a seventh out fielder didn't make

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Speaker 2: a ton of sense. He's not ranked on top one

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Speaker 2: hundred list because he's a smaller guy. He's not gonna

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Speaker 2: be like a forty home run guy, and he's got

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Speaker 2: He's probably an average to below average defender. But this

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Speaker 2: guy brings a confident, aggressive, go get you a swagger

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Speaker 2: to the batter's box. I kind of compare that to

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Speaker 2: Nick Castiados, and he doesn't swing and miss. So my

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Speaker 2: prediction for him is that he's going to have one

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Speaker 2: of those very buzzy camps. I think he's going to

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Speaker 2: hit a lot, and you're gonna ask a lot about him.

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Speaker 2: In March. I wouldn't have him on the opening day projection,

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Speaker 2: but then it's May, it's June, he'll play well in

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Speaker 2: triple A and then he'll come up in a regular role.

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Speaker 1: Is there any part of his game that you think

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Speaker 1: the organization wants to see him improve on, whether it's

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Speaker 1: been over the course of this offseason or if it's

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Speaker 1: in the minor leagues at the start of this season.

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Speaker 4: Do you think there's anything specific so too.

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Speaker 2: Offensively, he's pretty advanced. But the thing with him has

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Speaker 2: been he can hit any pitch. He's like the best

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Speaker 2: bat ball hitter in baseball. But it's marginally and consistently,

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Speaker 2: you know, incrementally shrinking the zone to make sure you're

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Speaker 2: swinging the strikes. Keep going with that process, and then

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Speaker 2: really the defense. He came up as an infielder and

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Speaker 2: was an infielder until about a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 2: So just the nuances in the outfield, now, that was

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Speaker 2: a part of why the Dominican Winner League was so

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Speaker 2: good for him, to get those consistent reps in the outfield.

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Speaker 2: He actually made a like an unbelievable player to win

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Speaker 2: the championship in center field. So good on Hector for

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Speaker 2: that kind of flashing with gloves. Terry frink Crone has

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Speaker 2: mentioned this specifically with Hector wanting to see more in

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Speaker 2: the field for him. Charlie.

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Speaker 3: Lastly, on the Reds, I know it's still early February.

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Speaker 3: Who's your leader right now to fill that final role

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Speaker 3: in the starting rotation.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be a competition. We all know between Burns,

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Speaker 2: Louder and Williamson. The way I look at it, and

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Speaker 2: kind of a sense I get, is that it would

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Speaker 2: just absolutely be a waste of everyone's time if Chase

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Speaker 2: Burns do another pitch in the minor leagues. I like,

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Speaker 2: here's a hot take. I think Chase Burns might be

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Speaker 2: the most talented pitcher on the team. I think he's

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Speaker 2: in a good spot to make that job. Now. Every

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Speaker 2: year have been doing this, there's a starter who's gotten

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Speaker 2: hurt in spring or has been kind of set back,

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Speaker 2: you know, delayed progression, like Andrew Rabbits starting last year

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Speaker 2: on the IL. So you end up, you know, your

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Speaker 2: competition on February fifth is of what your competition ends

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Speaker 2: up being on April fifth. I think there's nothing wrong

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Speaker 2: with having Rett Labor get a couple of starts under

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Speaker 2: his Belton triple after just missing a full season. Same

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Speaker 2: with Brandon Williams, and he barely pitched since twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 2: I give that edge to Burns. I think injuries will

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Speaker 2: open it up. I will say, though, I'm nervous about

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Speaker 2: the Red starting pitching depths kind of behind their top eight,

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Speaker 2: and if that's something that comes up in like August,

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Speaker 2: that could be a concern.

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Speaker 3: I have about this on the Bengals front. The Hall

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Speaker 3: of Fame voting and announcement was made last night. It

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Speaker 3: did not include Ken Anderson, it did not include Willy Anderson.

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Speaker 3: And I feel like everyone in this day and age

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Speaker 3: has a take on the Hall of Fame voting and

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Speaker 3: how these things come to head. What's your view on

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Speaker 3: this whole process, And obviously it hits closer to home

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Speaker 3: in Cincinnati and Anderson, Ken n Willie are left out again,

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Speaker 3: But what's just your take on the process of Hall

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Speaker 3: of Fame voting.

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Speaker 2: I think I have a better understanding of the arbitration

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Speaker 2: system and how that works. Then Hall of Fame voting

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Speaker 2: in football it feels like a mess. How small it

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Speaker 2: is is something that I don't quite understand. And every

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Speaker 2: year it feels like they're surprises, and that trend continue

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Speaker 2: this year. And obviously, kenam will you hope to see

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Speaker 2: them in for everything they accomplished. And there are a

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Speaker 2: lot of people much smarter and much more connected to

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Speaker 2: their eras than I that would argue that. But I'm

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Speaker 2: glad that this year has highlighted just the process as

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Speaker 2: a whole and has people talking about it.

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl's coming up on Sunday, Charlie, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you've heard that or not. Seahawks are favored. We're

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Speaker 1: going to make our picks later in the show. We

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Speaker 1: want to know who you're picking to win Super Bowl sixty.

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Speaker 2: I'm picking the Seahawks. This has been kind of my

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Speaker 2: favorite team in terms of just football x's and no's

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Speaker 2: watching them in a while. And let's see if I

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Speaker 2: can come up with a bold prediction. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: say a Seahawks defensive back score the touchdown. How about that?

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Speaker 3: Okay, all right, I like that. I like that your

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Speaker 3: Super Bowl MVP.

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Speaker 2: Super Bowl MVP. While I have it, ifend back scoring

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Speaker 2: a touchdown, let me go with I can't quite do it.

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Speaker 2: Let me go with Cooper Cup.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I could see.

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Speaker 2: The Patriots have the defensive backs to run with JS

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Speaker 2: and but can they kind of outsmart them and outsavvy

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Speaker 2: them and kind of go when they make you go

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Speaker 2: to your number two, go to your number two? And

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Speaker 2: Cooper Cup kind of does it again?

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Speaker 1: Have there been multiple Super Bowl MVPs for a wide receiver.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking Jerry Rice might be the only one.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I got nothing. This is not a

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Speaker 2: super Bowl history guy. I watch every year, but I

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Speaker 2: never quite got into the hole, like watch the Super

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Speaker 2: Bowl documentaries thing to catch me up on the sixties, seventies,

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Speaker 2: eighties and night. I know they're great. I just have

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Speaker 2: a r under it all.

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Speaker 4: We finally something different between us.

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Speaker 3: We heard earlier in the week Jamar Chase and T

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Speaker 3: Higgins kind of outlined their perfect offseason with Jeffrey Simmons

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Speaker 3: and Max Crosby. Is that something you'd be on board with,

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Speaker 3: Charlie edding both of those defenders to this defense.

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Speaker 2: I don't see how the Bengals have the picks to

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Speaker 2: make a deal like that done. I can tell you this,

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Speaker 2: like if there were like a Madden style fantasy draft

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Speaker 2: and the Bengals were picking, like among the whole league,

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Speaker 2: Max Crosby would be very very very very high on

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Speaker 2: their board. Like he is a guy and so Simons

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Speaker 2: of Chris, but like Krogby is a guy specifically who

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Speaker 2: I know they love. But for a team that needs

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Speaker 2: to get young and stay young and add long term

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Speaker 2: upside on defense, I don't see they're having the picks

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Speaker 2: to get that deal done. But they do love klwds.

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Speaker 3: Do you have a favorite Winter Olympic event that you

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Speaker 3: like to watch?

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Speaker 2: You know, that's another thing. I don't check the box one.

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Speaker 2: I got nothing Winter Olympics. I got nothing Nascar. I

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Speaker 2: hope everyone enjoyed it. I almost did a story once

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Speaker 2: on the best curler in the City of Cincinnati, but

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Speaker 2: that didn't quite work out. Other than that, it's probably

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Speaker 2: just because I was never a skier, snowboarder or anything

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Speaker 2: like that. I just never got into the Winter Olympics

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Speaker 2: fair enough.

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Speaker 3: Charlie Goldsmith, what is uh? What's the easiest way? And

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Speaker 3: I got to imagine it's how how difficult at times?

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Speaker 3: Does it become dealing with guys like Jeremy Row and

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Speaker 3: Joe Daniman. So often are they call? Yeah? I do

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Speaker 3: they bother you during calls?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: They send us. They send us pictures of you while

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Speaker 4: you're on the phone with us.

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Speaker 2: I did see Joe thought he was being sneaky taking

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Speaker 2: that photo, but but I saw it. I was ready

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Speaker 2: for the moment.

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Speaker 3: Is Joe okay understanding that his warriors have kind of

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Speaker 3: just thrown in the white towel on Steph Curry's career?

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Speaker 4: Oh wow?

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Speaker 2: I thought you were just asking, is Joe okay in general?

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Speaker 2: And I can answer that. I like that the Warriors

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Speaker 2: are going out nobly, They're still trying to win. They're

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Speaker 2: letting steps, you know, entertain the masses, which is what

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Speaker 2: he should do as opposed to doing what like the

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Speaker 2: Bucks have done and just being paralyzed by your own

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Speaker 2: fear of your star.

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Speaker 3: Wow, well said Charlie. Uh, the easiest way to follow

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Speaker 3: along with everything I know you're getting ready to go

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Speaker 3: to spring training read Bengals and everything in between. The

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Speaker 3: easiest way as.

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Speaker 2: What Charlie shockboard on Substack and on Fox nineteen and

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Speaker 2: then over on the Power Stacks podcast. You got a

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Speaker 2: big show on Monday, first day of spring training. I

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Speaker 2: have a lot of interviews from Goodyear Arizona. You'll hear

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Speaker 2: from the guys, vibes and expectations. You're going to be

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Speaker 2: the focus getting things off started.

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Speaker 3: Awesome, awesome stuff, Charlie. We always appreciate your time. Have

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Speaker 3: a great weekend. Thank you, see you guys. There He

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Speaker 3: is Charlie Goldsmith. I'm surprised Charlie's not an Olympic guy.

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Speaker 1: I'm not he puts too much effort into other things

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Speaker 1: fair apparently not super Bowl history. That's also true. That's

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Speaker 1: one of shock. That's one of my nerdy things. I

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Speaker 1: love super Bowls.

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Speaker 3: I love talkbacks. Talkbacks happen when we return the Friday edition.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure there won't be any UC related talkbacks at

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Speaker 3: all Today on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station