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Speaker 1: Your host, Ken Brew on news radio seven hundred WLW.

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Speaker 2: Well, welcome on in. Well, I'll tell you what, if

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Speaker 2: you watch any of that NCAA tournament action yesterday, well

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Speaker 2: Friday night for that matter, your head is spinning. It's

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Speaker 2: you know, it's one of those things where I think

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Speaker 2: the NIL and the Portal have really now made their

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Speaker 2: mark inside of college basketball. And there's a lot of moaning,

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Speaker 2: and we'll get into that later in this show, but

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of moaning that Cinderellas are gone. If

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Speaker 2: you look at the games on Friday night, the favorites one,

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Speaker 2: every single one of them, sixteen to oh on Friday

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Speaker 2: night in the first round of the NCAAA Tournament, thirteen

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Speaker 2: of the thirty two games were decided by twenty or

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Speaker 2: more points. High point, obviously, was the I guess the

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Speaker 2: Cinderella story, at least in the first round. Reality tends

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Speaker 2: to set in quickly in the NCAAA tournament for a

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Speaker 2: lot of these higher seeds or I guess lower seeds,

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Speaker 2: however you want to look at it. And when you're

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Speaker 2: a double digit seed, reality sets in rather quickly. But

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Speaker 2: I think because of the NIL and Portal, Cinderella stories,

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Speaker 2: at least on the strength of this year, don't seem

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Speaker 2: to be around as much anymore. They really don't. Last

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Speaker 2: night's game between Nebraska and Vanderbilt I think might have

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Speaker 2: been the best game of the tournament so far. I mean, there's,

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Speaker 2: of course, the way the game ended, but there's also

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Speaker 2: the way the game was played, and I thought it

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Speaker 2: was just a terrific ballgame, Nebraska winning seventy four to

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Speaker 2: seventy two. So now they're onto the Sweet sixteen for

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Speaker 2: the first time in their school's history. We'll get into

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Speaker 2: the other NCAAA tournament action in a second, of course.

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Speaker 2: The big story around here is that opening Day is

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Speaker 2: coming up on Thursday, and if you look ahead to

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Speaker 2: the weather, there is the likelihood of some rain in

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Speaker 2: that game before it is completed. But we'll see these things.

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Speaker 2: As you well know. You stick around this town for

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Speaker 2: five minutes, and you know that the weather is an

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Speaker 2: ever flowing thing. It waxes, it wanes. So I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to get too caught up on Sunday before Thursday

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Speaker 2: of what the weather is going to be like on

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Speaker 2: Opening Day. I'll worry about it Thursday morning. But the

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Speaker 2: fact of the matter is Opening day is this Thursday.

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Speaker 2: And the other fact of the matter is is the

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Speaker 2: Reds have had a very decent spring. They finish up

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Speaker 2: today against the Guardians in Goodyear, Arizona. It will be

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Speaker 2: the quickest game probably in all of spring training. They

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Speaker 2: just want to get out of Arizona and get on

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Speaker 2: with it. A little different this year than what it's

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Speaker 2: been in years past because instead of coming straight back

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Speaker 2: to Cincinnati, they go to Milwaukee and play two games

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Speaker 2: in Milwaukee. Now a lot of teams do this, There's

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Speaker 2: no they would rather play game, meaningful games against the

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Speaker 2: other guys every day eight or every day nine. I suppose,

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Speaker 2: then stick around for split squad games wherever else may

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Speaker 2: be going on at this hour or at this day

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Speaker 2: and Goodyear. So the Reds are following suit with a

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Speaker 2: lot of other teams. But games normally on the last

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Speaker 2: day of spring training very very quick. And if you

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Speaker 2: look at the Reds so far in spring training, fourteen

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Speaker 2: and fourteen, so not great, not bad as a team.

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Speaker 2: But the most insignificant things in the world of sports

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Speaker 2: are exhibition baseball scores. I said that when I worked

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Speaker 2: in Tampa years ago, were the only thing they had

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Speaker 2: down there. The only major leg variety that they had

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Speaker 2: down there was spring training games. It may nothing. You

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Speaker 2: have to look at individual players. So let's TJ. Friedel

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Speaker 2: is going to be the lead off hitter this year.

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Speaker 2: He's hit the ball very well in spring. He was

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Speaker 2: two for three yesterday in a win over the White Sox.

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Speaker 2: Three point seventeen is where he is at right now.

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Speaker 2: Matt McClain has been the surprise of spring training. I

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Speaker 2: don't think anybody thought Matt McClain was going to go

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Speaker 2: into spring training and wind up hitting five twenty nine.

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Speaker 2: He was one for three again yesterday and scored a

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Speaker 2: run in that eleven to seven win over the White Sox.

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Speaker 2: Ellie Data Cruz now average wise, has not hit the

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Speaker 2: ball all that well in situations. He's hit the ball

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Speaker 2: well one for two yesterday, two RBI. His fielding has improved.

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Speaker 2: Apparently he's got this deal going on out there with

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Speaker 2: key Brian Hayes and they try to outdo each other

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Speaker 2: to see who is the better defensive player on that

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Speaker 2: given day, which is good because Dala Cruz has got

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Speaker 2: to improve his defense. The speed is there, the power

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Speaker 2: is there, by and large, the hitting is there. He

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Speaker 2: laid off bad pitches last year. Ellie Data Cruz two

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Speaker 2: eighty three so far this spring on base percentage three

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Speaker 2: p forty sALS Stewart. Sal Stewart is going to play

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Speaker 2: a lot this year. He played first base yesterday. Sal

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Speaker 2: Stuart won for three, hitting three point fifty seven this

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Speaker 2: spring on base percentage of four to seventy one. Again,

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Speaker 2: you look at the individual numbers. You don't look at

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Speaker 2: things as a team au Hanio Suarez. They didn't sign

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Speaker 2: this guy to hit for average. They signed this guy

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Speaker 2: for two reasons. One power bat, middle of the lineup.

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Speaker 2: Two somebody that when you need a fly ball, he's

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Speaker 2: going to give you a fly ball. He's going to

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Speaker 2: DH this year. I don't see him playing in the

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Speaker 2: field unless things get dire, unless there are a couple

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Speaker 2: of injuries and you gotta press him into action. This

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Speaker 2: guy's going to DH. Ellie Day La Cruz hitting the

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Speaker 2: ball better Aohanio Suarez. I think because of his time

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Speaker 2: spent away with the World Baseball Classic, he did not

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Speaker 2: play a lot for the team that ultimately won it

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Speaker 2: All Venezuela. He did not pay, he did not hit

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Speaker 2: the ball a lot, So he's kind of sputtering coming

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Speaker 2: out of spring training. But again he's sitting one to

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Speaker 2: seventy six. You did not sign him for average, You

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Speaker 2: signed him for power. Nouelve Marte not hitting the ball well,

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Speaker 2: I mean he's not. But Marte to me is a

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Speaker 2: guy that I think is critical to this team this

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Speaker 2: year defensively certainly, and offensively as well. Two twenty four

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Speaker 2: of the spring I'm not really old. I'm concerned about

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Speaker 2: nouelve Marte. Key Brian Hayes is not going to hit

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Speaker 2: the ball for average. He's just not. If Key Brian

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Speaker 2: Hayes gives you two forty this year on average and

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Speaker 2: he continues to play Gold Glove defense at third base,

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Speaker 2: you're fine because Dana Cruz is going to hit the

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Speaker 2: ball better. McClain is hitting the ball better. Steer is

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Speaker 2: an everyday player. He'll hit the ball Freedo leading off

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Speaker 2: is gold and Souarez for power. You mix in sal Stewart.

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Speaker 2: I think, and again I don't want to get over

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Speaker 2: my skis and start predicting anything like playoff Berth or

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Speaker 2: anything like that, but I think offensively they'll be okay.

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Speaker 2: Pitching is enough. The thing I mean, the injury to

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Speaker 2: Green is not good. You can't slice that any other way.

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Speaker 2: You can't talk about opportunities for people like Brandon Williamson

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Speaker 2: and Rett Louder is going to move up the road

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Speaker 2: in the rotation. It's not good. I mean, there's no

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Speaker 2: way to spind it. But they do have depth. Andrew

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Speaker 2: Abbott took the mound last night and a rabbit has

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Speaker 2: had a couple of bad starts here lately in spring.

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Speaker 2: Last night he goes four and two. Third, he allows

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Speaker 2: five hits, they were all earned, walk one, struck out

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Speaker 2: five and really, if you if you look at at

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Speaker 2: his body of work last night, he gives up a

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Speaker 2: home run, two run home run on the second, the

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Speaker 2: rest of the work was okay. You listen to every

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Speaker 2: single picture after every single start in spring training, they

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Speaker 2: will tell you the same thing. Yeah, I felt pretty

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Speaker 2: good today. Yeah, I was trying to get ahead of

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Speaker 2: my uh my curve. I wanted it to bite a

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Speaker 2: little bit more. You know, you'll get that. So there's

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Speaker 2: a there's a lot of bs that comes out of

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Speaker 2: pitchers in spring training. But again, I think think Abbott

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Speaker 2: is going to be okay, and he thinks for what

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Speaker 2: it's worth, last night was his best start so far.

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Speaker 2: In the spring. Here he is after the game, a

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Speaker 2: little bit of him talking with the media and.

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Speaker 3: Through the ball best I have in the spring training.

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Speaker 3: You know, a lot of soft contact, one hard hit

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Speaker 3: ball in the zone with all pitches. You know, a

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Speaker 3: lot of swing and miss in the zone. Only walked

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Speaker 3: one guy. Just felt overall very competitive and very sound

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Speaker 3: throughout mechanically and everything that we're trying to work on.

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Speaker 3: Cutter was great, a changeup was good. Other than the

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Speaker 3: one that Pereira hit out.

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Speaker 4: I think that was the only mistake that I made.

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Speaker 5: The fire welcome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Sam mull made the team largely because he's a

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Speaker 2: left hander. But he pitched an inning yesterday. He gave

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Speaker 2: up three hits and two earned runs. I'm a little

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Speaker 2: leery at the back of that bullpen Pegan is going

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Speaker 2: to close. I think Pegan proved his work last year.

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Speaker 2: That's the reason why he's back with the team this year.

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Speaker 2: But I think he proved his work last year. And

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Speaker 2: I think although he'll give you a few shaky innings,

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Speaker 2: and he is a fly ball pitcher, and half the

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Speaker 2: games are in Great American Ballpark, I think Maul is okay.

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Speaker 2: But in total, the back of that BULLPENJA. It makes

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Speaker 2: me a little skittish. We'll see. We'll see about the

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Speaker 2: starting pitching too, without the race Hunter Green. But by

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Speaker 2: and large, I don't see a lot of red flags

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Speaker 2: coming out of Goodyear as they pack up today and

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Speaker 2: head to Milwaukee for a couple of games. By the way,

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Speaker 2: you'll hear that game here on seven hundred w WELW

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Speaker 2: As we get closer to Thursday and opening Day, we

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Speaker 2: of course are in the middle of the NCAA tournament.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you watched the Nebraska Vanderbilt game

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Speaker 2: last night. I think was the best game of the

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Speaker 2: tournament so far. It was absolutely terrific. Nebraska son of

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Speaker 2: the coach running one handed down the lane, gives them

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Speaker 2: the two point lead, and then to have a desperation

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Speaker 2: three pointer from Vanderbilt just rattle inside the rim twice

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Speaker 2: and pop out. Man, the heartbreak involved in that. But

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Speaker 2: there have been highs and there been lows, and there

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Speaker 2: are games today more to move on to. Today. Louisville

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Speaker 2: is out. Duke took care of TCU, no problem there.

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Speaker 2: Houston has a terrific team. They took out Texas A

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Speaker 2: and M last night eighty eight to fifty seven Texas

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Speaker 2: Sean Miller, Hayzavier year old buddy moving out of the

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Speaker 2: Sweet sixteen, took out Gonzaga three seeds seventy four sixty

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Speaker 2: eight the final in that game, and Michigan another number

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Speaker 2: one seed, moving on beating Saint Louis. Today, you've got

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Speaker 2: Kentucky on the court. Kentucky played a wild game the

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Speaker 2: other night against Santa Clara and won eighty nine eighty

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Speaker 2: four in overtime. All right, so with nine seconds to go,

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Speaker 2: nine seconds to go, they called them oh for obvious reasons.

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Speaker 2: Otega Oway layup ties the game, seventy seventy, seventy seventy.

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Speaker 2: Ohway in this game was eleven of twenty four, three

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Speaker 2: to five from three point range, thirty five points, eight rebounds.

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Speaker 2: Down comes Santa Clara the other way, and Alan Graves,

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Speaker 2: you talk about desperation, three pointers, three point shot, seventy

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Speaker 2: three seventy Santa Clara. You have like two seconds, three

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Speaker 2: seconds left. Oh Way, Banks in a thirty two footer

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Speaker 2: ties the game at seventy three, and Kentucky wins it

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Speaker 2: in overtime and moves on to play today against Iowa State.

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Speaker 2: This game against Iowa State is going to be a tough,

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Speaker 2: tough out for Kentucky. Don't kid yourself. Twenty eight to seven,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Twenty eight to seven is the record that

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Speaker 2: Iowa State brings into this and also a number two seed.

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Speaker 2: Let's listen to Mark Pope described that last second sequence

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Speaker 2: the other night against Santa Clara that has Kentucky right

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Speaker 2: now in a position to move into the sweet sixteen.

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Speaker 6: Here he is, but you know, they bang a big

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Speaker 6: time three with I don't know six seconds left, maybe

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Speaker 6: seven seconds rent And one of the things I was

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Speaker 6: really proud of is that there was no pause, throw

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Speaker 6: your hands up, feel sorry for self reaction from our guys.

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Speaker 6: The scrambles got the ball that it'll take a race

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Speaker 6: down the floor and stopped right in front of me

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Speaker 6: and as he raised up, he said, that's a bucket

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Speaker 6: and then threw it off the glass. But that next

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Speaker 6: play mentality, I think that's something that you this you

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Speaker 6: talk about all the time, that you learn through experience,

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Speaker 6: and our guys have a whole bunch of it.

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Speaker 2: Man. Yeah, they've got a lot of it, and they've

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Speaker 2: got a lot of good and they've got a lot

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Speaker 2: of bad. In last second sequences, but that that again

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Speaker 2: was a terrific game. As good as Nebraska Vanderbilt. I

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Speaker 2: don't think so. But nevertheless, for Kentucky and their fan base,

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Speaker 2: they get to play on today and a chance to

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Speaker 2: go to the NCAA Sweet sixteen. Now, look, this is

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Speaker 2: as I said, it's going to be a tough out.

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Speaker 2: Iowa State. We know about that. You see plays in

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Speaker 2: that conference. We know all about Iowa State. We all

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Speaker 2: know what U see did with Iowa State this year.

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Speaker 2: They got a lot of good players. The leading rebounder

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Speaker 2: doesn't look like he's going to play today. But a

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Speaker 2: guy by the name of Milan Montslovitch will you're saying, Ken,

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Speaker 2: who's Milan Montseilovitch. He may be the best three point

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Speaker 2: shooter in the country. This kid makes fifty one percent

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Speaker 2: of his three point shots, and he takes a lot

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Speaker 2: of three point shots. He will take a lot of

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Speaker 2: three point shots today. Again, here's Pope talking about Iowa

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Speaker 2: State and quite frankly, their biggest threat, Milan Montslovitch. Again,

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Speaker 2: here's Pope. Yeah, he's he's put up staggering numbers. I

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Speaker 2: think he's close to two hundred and fifty Three's on

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Speaker 2: the season shooting fifty percent, it's really really impressive.

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Speaker 6: Has got to put him in rarefied here. I don't

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Speaker 6: know where that stands with anybody else in the country.

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Speaker 2: And he does it.

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Speaker 6: You know, they earn him a lot of shots with

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Speaker 6: their pace, They earned him shots with actions, hearing himself

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Speaker 6: shots by being an elite level screener and a relocator.

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Speaker 6: And so it's got to be a little bit of

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Speaker 6: team effort. Of course, there'll be guys who have mashup assignments,

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Speaker 6: but also the communications is going to be key. Us

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Speaker 6: being solid in ball protection is going to be key.

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Speaker 6: Us being good on the glass is going to be

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Speaker 6: a key, is going to be key because he's so

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Speaker 6: functional off you know, earning threes off offensive rebounds and

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Speaker 6: off cuts and and in transition. So it'll be individual

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Speaker 6: and team effort.

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Speaker 2: So as exciting as that game was against Santa Clara, uh,

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Speaker 2: you got to get over that stuff in a hurry.

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Speaker 2: Colin Chandler knows that. He was talking about that the

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Speaker 2: other day, where you know, you almost you almost have

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Speaker 2: to flush it. I mean, that's that's what coaches say.

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Speaker 2: You got to flush that game, good or bad from

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Speaker 2: your mind. Flush was not a word I think that

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Speaker 2: Chandler wanted to use, but the concept was there. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if it's a complete flush.

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Speaker 7: I think it's good for us to take the momentum

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Speaker 7: of last game into the next game, but it's it's

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Speaker 7: a restart zero zero, so we have to come out

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Speaker 7: with hopefully that momentum to carry us into this game.

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Speaker 2: So that's a two forty five start. Or their bouts

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Speaker 2: with Iowa State. That's the seventh seed Kentucky, two seed

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Speaker 2: Iowa State. There's some really good games today. I'm just

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Speaker 2: they ought to be good. You got four seed Kansas,

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Speaker 2: five seed Saint John's. That's a five point fifteen start.

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Speaker 2: Iowa plays Florida. Florida is everybody's pick. I like Florida

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Speaker 2: a lot. I think this is going to be a

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Speaker 2: tough out for Florida. Iowa plays Bangham Basketball. Seven to

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Speaker 2: ten start tonight, Iowa Florida should be a good game,

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Speaker 2: and then a forty five tonight. You got Hurley and

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Speaker 2: Cronin this ought to be You talk about two guys

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Speaker 2: that you just they walk on the court with the

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Speaker 2: carotid artery vein popping from their neck. Our old Buddy

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Speaker 2: Mick and UCLA is seven seed against Connecticut. That's an

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Speaker 2: eight forty five start tonight, and there's a game after

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Speaker 2: that at nine forty five Texas Tech and Alabama. Full

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Speaker 2: day of NCAA basketball, lying straight ahead. This is Sunday

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Speaker 2: Morning Sports Talk. This is you and me. We've got

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Speaker 2: a lot to get to between now and noon, and

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Speaker 2: we'll get to the rest of it and most of

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Speaker 2: it next on seven hundred WDLW forty on this Sunday,

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Speaker 2: Good Morning, seven hundred WDLW Sunday Morning Sports Talk. Tough

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Speaker 2: end of the season for the Miami women. They played

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Speaker 2: West Virginia University in the NCAA Women's Tournament yesterday West

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Speaker 2: Virginia eighty two, Miami fifty four. But you know, again,

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Speaker 2: like the men terrific season in Oxford twenty eight and seven,

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Speaker 2: so we congratulate them on that. The Miami men, of

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Speaker 2: course knocked out of the tournament this past weekend after

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Speaker 2: a thirty one or oh start to the season and

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Speaker 2: winning that play in game. But it just season seemed

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Speaker 2: to run out of steam. But Travis Steel's saying afterwards, he's,

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Speaker 2: you know, why wouldn't he be proud.

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Speaker 8: Of his team congrasts them, but it doesn't take anything

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Speaker 8: away from our team.

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Speaker 5: Our teams had a heck of a journey.

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Speaker 8: So what I told our guys, and obviously eybody sees

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Speaker 8: the results, but the quality of human beings that we

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Speaker 8: have in our locker room, man, is where everything that's

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Speaker 8: right about college athletics, in my opinion.

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Speaker 2: He had made a point about how difficult it is

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Speaker 2: to schedule out of conference opponents power for conference opponents,

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Speaker 2: which obviously helps your seating process, and probably if he

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Speaker 2: had more on his schedule, he would not have had

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Speaker 2: to have played in Dayton, although who knows, who knows

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Speaker 2: if those would have been wins, and he got the

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Speaker 2: ire of Purdue coach Matt Painter. Painter was talking about

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Speaker 2: the fact that you know, they don't duck anybody at Purdue,

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Speaker 2: and really that the fact that they played MAC teams

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Speaker 2: that had been better than Miami. It's not up to

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Speaker 2: him to guess, you know, exactly when a team like

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Speaker 2: Miami would be really, really good and outperforming what most

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Speaker 2: people people would consider it to be an average MAC team.

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Speaker 2: And he pointed out that he he scheduled at Purdue

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Speaker 2: a lot of MAC teams in his time and seemed

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Speaker 2: to take issue with what Travis Deal was saying. Here

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Speaker 2: was Matt Painter the other night on all of.

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Speaker 9: That, if he was in my position, like you're going

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Speaker 9: to play eleven non conference games next year, it's going

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Speaker 9: to go to twelve, and so we play six high

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Speaker 9: major games and we play five mid major teams. So

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Speaker 9: when they say they don't play mid majors, like, we

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Speaker 9: played five mid majors this year. But if he was

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Speaker 9: in our position, he did the same thing we're doing,

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Speaker 9: Like I didn't set the net rankings. The net rankings

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Speaker 9: set themselves, but I'm going to go buy it, like

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Speaker 9: I'm going to figure it out. The coaches that don't

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Speaker 9: look at the net rankings and get things figured out

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Speaker 9: how to schedule are bozos.

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Speaker 2: They're absolute bozos.

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Speaker 9: You are going to do what is best for your

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Speaker 9: institution so you can get in the tournament and help

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Speaker 9: your seats. So we're the only program in the country

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Speaker 9: it's been a top four seed, you know, nine.

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Speaker 2: Years in our own Matt Painter after his game on

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Speaker 2: Friday night. Matt Painter and Purdue back down the court

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Speaker 2: later on this afternoon, trying to get to the Sweet

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Speaker 2: sixteen I came across something that was interesting. By the way,

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Speaker 2: Byron Larkin is going to join us in about a

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Speaker 2: half an hour. We're going to talk more about the

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Speaker 2: NCAA Tournament. I came upon this book here, written by

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Speaker 2: a guy named Keith O'Brien. Keith O'Brien wrote a I

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Speaker 2: think a really good work on Pete Rose about a

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Speaker 2: year and a half ago, and his follow up is

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Speaker 2: a book now on Larry Bird and his time at

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Speaker 2: Indiana State. It's called Heartland, A Forgotten Place, an Impossible Dream,

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Speaker 2: and the Miracle of Larry Bird. I actually was doing

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Speaker 2: the University of Tulsa University basketball games on radio when

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Speaker 2: Larry Bird played at Indiana State and both teams were

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Speaker 2: in the Missouri Valley Conference conference, and it brought back

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Speaker 2: a lot of memories for me. Bird post college was

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Speaker 2: completely different than Bird in college, both as a person

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Speaker 2: and somewhat as a player. But it's a deep dive

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Speaker 2: into Bird and his time at Indiana State and how

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Speaker 2: he helped speaking of mid majors, helped get mid majors

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Speaker 2: back into the conversation for the NCAA Tournament. Keith O'Brien,

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Speaker 2: the author, standing by to join us now to talk

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Speaker 2: about Heartland, a forgotten place and impossible dream and the

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Speaker 2: miracle of Larry Bird and Keith O'Brien. How are you

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Speaker 2: on this glorious Sunday.

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Speaker 5: I'm great, Ken, Thanks so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: Did you make any trips out to French Lick? Did

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Speaker 2: you go out there to write this book? Several?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I spent honestly weeks in Indiana, in Tara Hot

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Speaker 5: where Larry played his college ball.

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Speaker 10: In French Lick where he grew up, and I was

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Speaker 10: in little towns all across that state.

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Speaker 5: You know, Heartland is an origin story.

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Speaker 10: You know, this narrative unfolds between nineteen seventy three and

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Speaker 10: nineteen seventy nine.

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Speaker 5: Everything else for me is epilogue.

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Speaker 10: And I you know, I came to it because I

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Speaker 10: just feel like, for the last fifty years, Ken, we've

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Speaker 10: been telling this story one way. You know, anytime we

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Speaker 10: come to the early story of Larry Bird, we end

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Speaker 10: up doing the Bird Magic story, you know, the Larry

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Speaker 10: Bird Magic Johnson story. We lump them in together, and

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Speaker 10: I get why we do that.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 10: Obviously, Bird and Magic play against each other in the

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Speaker 10: most watched college basketball game of all time. In March

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Speaker 10: nineteen seventy nine, and then they're going to go on

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Speaker 10: and change.

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Speaker 5: And save the NBA.

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Speaker 10: But the reality the situation is, in the nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 10: Bird and Magic barely knew each other. They had met

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Speaker 10: one time. In that one time, they hardly spoke. So

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Speaker 10: they're not friends, they're not rivals, they're not anything. And

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Speaker 10: so all I wanted to do here was tilt the

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Speaker 10: camera in a slightly different direction, you know, take a

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Speaker 10: slightly different perspective, zoom in on this origin story in

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Speaker 10: rural Indiana. And when you do that, you get almost

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Speaker 10: a completely different story, and you get an entirely different

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Speaker 10: cast of characters, this group of scrappy underdogs, all from

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Speaker 10: rural Indiana, who you know, were a round bird in

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Speaker 10: those days, who shape him, form him, and at times,

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Speaker 10: honestly they save him.

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Speaker 2: I was working in Tulsa, Oklahoma at the time. In fact,

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Speaker 2: I was doing the Tulsa University basketball games in the

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Speaker 2: mid to late seventies, and of course Indiana State was

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Speaker 2: in the Missouri Valley Conference with Tulsa and made many

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Speaker 2: trips to Tara Hate to that Holman Center with its

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Speaker 2: tartan surface. The ball just sounded really goofy coming off

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Speaker 2: the floor. And I remember Larry Bird as being ultra

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Speaker 2: protected by his coaches, certainly Bob King. Bob King would

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Speaker 2: not let Larry Bird talk to the media. He just

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Speaker 2: thought he came off poorly in public. And then later on,

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Speaker 2: I guess it was Bill Hodges who coached him, and

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Speaker 2: even Hodges protected him from the media. We would come

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Speaker 2: to town with Tulsa, So they would come to Tulsa

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Speaker 2: and you wanted to interview the coach and maybe the

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Speaker 2: best player. He was hands off. This was not a

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Speaker 2: confident guy when he was playing at Indiana State, was he.

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Speaker 10: Well, he was confident in his abilities on the floor,

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Speaker 10: you know, he had that swagger even then. But you

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Speaker 10: were right, you know, he was unconfident off the floor.

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Speaker 10: And you know it wasn't that Bob King, you know,

432
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 10: was protecting him, you know, because he was worried about

433
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 10: what Larry would say. Larry didn't want to talk, and

434
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 10: King knew that, and so he was protecting him, you know,

435
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 10: from from himself, you know, because Larry didn't want to

436
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 10: go out there in front of the cameras. He didn't

437
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,120
Speaker 10: want to talk to the print media. Most of all,

438
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 10: and you know, I did a lot of reporting around

439
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 10: that in the book. It's a big part of the narrative.

440
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 10: You know, it is sort of a miracle and not

441
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 10: sort of. It's a miracle that Larry bird Ever ends up,

442
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,159
Speaker 10: but Indiana State Ever sort of ends up in the spotlight.

443
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 10: But once the spotlight finds him, he wants to shrink

444
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 10: from that. He wants to find the shadows. He wants

445
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 10: to get away. He does not want to talk about

446
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 10: his hard childhood growing up. He does not want to

447
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 10: talk about the tragedy that takes his father's life. He

448
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 10: does not want to talk about a failed marriage to

449
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,159
Speaker 10: a high school sweetheart or the daughter that they have

450
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 10: born of that failed marriage. All of these are open

451
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 10: secrets in Tara Hope that the local press won't touch.

452
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 10: But from the moment Larry becomes a national star, roughly

453
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 10: in January nineteen seventy eight, you know, the national media

454
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 10: wants to tell this incredible story. You know, broadcasters like

455
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 10: you coming to town, want to do the pregame interview,

456
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 10: and none of it's possible.

457
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 5: Larry won't talk.

458
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 2: This was as I recall that team, and boy, the

459
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 2: memories are flooding back now that you and I are talking.

460
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 2: Carl Knicks was on that team, who was a guard

461
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: that played a few more than a few years in

462
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 2: the NBA. But they had other players that you looked

463
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 2: at and you said, who are these guys. Bob Heaton

464
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,719
Speaker 2: was a guy I remember. Steve Reid was a guy.

465
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: I remember he was a younger player on that seventy

466
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 2: eight seventy nine team. Leroy Staley was another guy. I'm

467
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 2: just going in my mind back through.

468
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 5: My Star book.

469
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 2: Yes, so, how many of his former players did you

470
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 2: actually get to talk to? And quite frankly, how many

471
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: are still alive.

472
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 10: Most of them are still alive, and I spoke with

473
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 10: all of them. You know, Bird would not talk to

474
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 10: me for this book. And you know, of course, as

475
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 10: a historian, as a journalist, I want to talk to everybody.

476
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 10: I certainly want to talk to the people at the

477
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 10: center of the story. But you know, I've learned over

478
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 10: the years, both through my book on Pete Rose and

479
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 10: this book here, that you know, you can often get

480
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 10: a more accurate portrait of a person by talking to

481
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 10: fifteen forty one hundred people around that person. Then you

482
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 10: can by talking to the person him or herself you know,

483
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 10: that's what I believe I've done here. And you know,

484
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 10: as you indicated, Keim, this story is bigger than Larry Bird.

485
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 10: You know, by seventy eight, seventy nine, you know, in

486
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 10: the when when Indiana State puts together this miracle run

487
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 10: going thirty three and hero rumbling into that championship game.

488
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 5: This is a.

489
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 10: Story that's sweeping the nation. It's the story of a team,

490
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 10: of a time, of a place, of a moment, and

491
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 10: the moment is so big that you know, it doesn't

492
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 10: just spark March madness or save the NBA. It picks

493
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 10: up these guys you just mentioned, you know, Bob Heaton,

494
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 10: Leroy Daily, Steve Reid, others around Larry. It picks them

495
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 10: up like a tide and it carries them forward, you know,

496
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 10: propelling them to places they've ever thought they would go.

497
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 10: And you know that, to me is the most powerful

498
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 10: part of the book. It's that final section, you know,

499
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 10: where we see that this moment has an afterlife, and

500
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,120
Speaker 10: that this afterlife in a lot of ways, it's still

501
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 10: reverberating today, especially in rural Indiana.

502
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 2: Yeah no, and the legend lives on obviously in Indiana,

503
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 2: no question about it. But you can't escape that Indiana

504
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 2: State Michigan State final. I mean you really, I mean,

505
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: for all intents and purposes, it was the first time

506
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 2: that Bird and Magic actually got to know each other,

507
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 2: and certainly the first time they were on the court together.

508
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,479
Speaker 2: And although I know the thrust of your book is

509
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: not that, that's when these two megastars in their final year,

510
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: they play that game. Obviously Michigan State wins it, then

511
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 2: they go to the NBA. I was working. I hate

512
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 2: to make any other references to me, but I was

513
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: working in Oklahoma City in the mid to early to

514
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 2: mid seventies, and the NBA Finals were broadcast at eleven

515
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: thirty at night by my station, by every CBS affiliated

516
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 2: station because the NBA then was viewed as basically a

517
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 2: drug infested late and they couldn't gain any traction. But

518
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: the minute Bird and Magic get to the NBA, it

519
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: saved that leg and I'm sure eventually would have found

520
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 2: Legs and other players the Detroit teams that came along

521
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 2: after the Celtics. But for all intents and purposes, the

522
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 2: NBA today would be a lot different if it wasn't

523
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 2: for Bird, and if it wasn't for Magic. So yeah,

524
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 2: I understand your story. But the afterlife of this story,

525
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 2: I think we'll live on greatly for Bird and for

526
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: Magic Johnson, beyond what happened with Larry in Indiana State.

527
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 2: Is that a fair assessment?

528
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 11: Oh?

529
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 5: Completely, I mean, you're absolutely right.

530
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 10: In seventy nine, you know, in the spring of seventy

531
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 10: nine and the weeks after that Bird Magic game, as

532
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 10: you said, the NBA Finals are on tape the leg

533
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 10: in almost every market. They're playing after the local news

534
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 10: at eleven thirty at nights. You know, almost everything you

535
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 10: can imagine. In seventy nine, you know, drew better television

536
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 10: ratings in the NBA, amateur boxing, professional bowling, winter sports,

537
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 10: soap operas, reruns, all of it is more popular than

538
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 10: the n b A. And you know, Bird and Magic

539
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 10: really do Stavid, Uh, you know, and and you know

540
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 10: David Stern, you know, a young executive at the end

541
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 10: in the league office about to become commissioner, you know,

542
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 10: realizes the star value he has in these two men,

543
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 10: and he makes savvy decisions in the early eighties, leveraging

544
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 10: you know, their their fame to the benefit of the league.

545
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 10: And it really does change everything, you know, Uh, and

546
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 10: and they know it. By the way, in seventy nine,

547
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 10: even in the weeks before the Bird Magic Game, even

548
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 10: before you know Bird advances that.

549
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 5: Far, league executives are talking.

550
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 10: About him, and they're saying, you know, how important it

551
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 10: will be for the league to have a star like

552
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 10: Larry Bird, who's obviously talent, you know, a generational ones

553
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 10: in a lifetime talent. Said I would argue still a

554
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 10: top ten player of all time. But you know the

555
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 10: league executives speak out loud in those days, Ken, You

556
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 10: know that, you know, Larry's race did matter, you know,

557
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 10: his whiteness mattered. They called him the Great White Hope.

558
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 10: They knew that Larry would appeal to viewers who weren't

559
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 10: turning tuning into the NBA, and all of that proved

560
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 10: to be correct.

561
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 2: Well chatty with Keith O'Brien his book Heartland, I Forgotten

562
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 2: Place and Impossible Dream, The Miracle of Larry Bird. Keith,

563
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 2: of course also writing Charlie Hustle, The Rise and Fall

564
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 2: of Pete Rose in the Last Glory Days of Baseball.

565
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 2: Why would Larry Bird not talk to you for this book?

566
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 10: You know, great question. You know I tried every which way.

567
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 10: You know, I tried through proper channels, through the front door,

568
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 10: through his agents, and then when that door, you know,

569
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 10: was obviously closed, I began working back channels, you know,

570
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 10: through his friends.

571
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 5: And you know when I.

572
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 10: Say his friends, I mean the people he's closest with

573
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 10: right now. You know, I did do interviews with some

574
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 10: of Larry's best friends today and even they couldn't get

575
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 10: him to speak with me.

576
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 5: You know, we talked to.

577
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 10: Him ago about you know, how Larry wanted to shrink

578
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 10: from that spotlight in the nineteen seventies.

579
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 5: He obviously couldn't even though he tried.

580
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 10: And then you know, he was thrust into that spotlight

581
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 10: in the eighties with the Celtics, with the Dream Team

582
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 10: in nineteen ninety two that goes to the Barcelona Olympics,

583
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 10: and then as an executive and head coach of the

584
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 10: Indiana Pacers for almost two decades.

585
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 5: He'd got to talk to the press.

586
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 10: But Larry stepped down from his role as the president

587
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 10: of the Pacers a few years back, and since then,

588
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 10: Ken he really has done what he said he wanted

589
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 10: to do fifty years ago.

590
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 5: You know, he has finally vanished.

591
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, he was not no pun intended I

592
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,719
Speaker 2: think all through his career, both in college basketball and

593
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: through the NBA, but certainly, I mean, you mentioned it

594
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: just a moment ago. And if you're going to start

595
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: listening the greatest NBA players ever, if you don't put

596
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: Larry Bird in the top ten, you don't understand the NBA,

597
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: and you certainly don't understand what he meant to a

598
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: little school in tarat Hooe, Indiana that up until then

599
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: was known probably for being the home of Columbia Records

600
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: and getting those one cent CDs. You remember those things.

601
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: You would buy a CD or a dollar and then

602
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: you get ten other ones for a penny, and the

603
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 2: ones you got for penny were just horrible. But other

604
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 2: than that, Tara Hope would just be a wide spot

605
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: on the road right now. But hey, listen, this is

606
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: good Keith. Good luck with the book and you know,

607
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 2: hopefully we can see out here in person. Maybe do

608
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: a little tour with it, huh, maybe come out to

609
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: Indiana and do some signings.

610
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 10: Well, thank you, Jen, it's always great to be with you.

611
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 10: Thanks so much for having me again.

612
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 2: Very nice, Keith O'Brien. Heartland is the name of the

613
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 2: book Heartland I've forgotten plays an impossible dream in the

614
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 2: Miracle of Larry Bird. It is out right now ten

615
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 2: fifty seven on this Sunday morning. Good Morning, seven hundred WLW.

616
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: NOW News Radio seven hundred w LW presents Sunday Morning

617
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 1: Sportstock with your host Ken Brew on News Radio seven

618
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 1: hundred WLW.

619
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 2: Eight more games today in the NCAA Tournament. Eight more today.

620
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going to be the better game.

621
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 2: I mean, you've got Saint John's and you got Kansas

622
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 2: that's a five to fifteen start. You also have Kentucky

623
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: and Iowa State that ought to be a great game.

624
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 2: Then tonight you got UCLA and connect Ticket and all

625
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 2: kinds of action peppered in between. It is absolutely captivated

626
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: an entire nation, including my next guest for in the

627
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 2: Annals of College Basketball. As you weave your way through

628
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 2: what the game began with James Nasmith and where it

629
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 2: is today, we see every dribble, every shot, every block shot,

630
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,239
Speaker 2: every free throw made to win a game. There are

631
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 2: a few people like my next guest. Here's a man

632
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 2: who led his team in scoring in college for four

633
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 2: not one, but four straat years, and in his senior year,

634
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 2: let his team in scoring, assist, steals, and scored at

635
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 2: least twenty points in eighty three games and in double

636
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: figures one hundred and seventeen times. Yes, if there is

637
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 2: a shot to be made on any level in basketball

638
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,439
Speaker 2: right now, be it collegiate, be it professional, be it international.

639
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 2: This is the man you want with the ball. We

640
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 2: bring in now the Hall of Famer from Victory Parkway,

641
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 2: the Inimitable Byron Larkinhew, are you on this great Sunday?

642
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,439
Speaker 11: Jen I was doing good, but now I'm even doing

643
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 11: better now now that I'm talking to you. It is

644
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 11: always a pleasure. Thank you for that warm introduction.

645
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 2: Well, I'd like to say an nobody leaves my show

646
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: with bad self esteem. That's just my goal.

647
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 5: That's how you roll.

648
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Vandy Nebraska. Was that the best game so far

649
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 2: in this tournament in your opinion? Or do you have another?

650
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,319
Speaker 11: Uh? That that was? That was pretty good. Uh, There's

651
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 11: been a lot of a lot of great games that

652
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 11: they One I really enjoyed was a high Point in Wisconsin.

653
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 11: That was that was a big time there. High Point

654
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 11: had a former Xavier player on their team, Kenyon. I

655
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 11: got his name, but he was injured when he came

656
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 11: to Xavier and didn't we just kind of sat on

657
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 11: the bench, and uh, he actually started at Entucky, went

658
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 11: to Florida State, hurt his knee, came to Xavier, was

659
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 11: on the bench, Sean Miller's staffed, and then went to

660
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 11: High Point and did a great job and got to

661
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 11: play an NCAA tournament against Arkansas. Ironically, cal he played

662
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 11: for Calk Kentucky and he ends up playing against him

663
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 11: to go to the Sweet sixteen in Arkansas beat him,

664
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 11: but Cameron Fletcher was his name all the stories. It's

665
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 11: just great. It's the most wonderful time.

666
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: Of the year.

667
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 11: Not Christmas this time, Ken, It's the most wonderful time

668
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 11: of the year.

669
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely. I saw this the other day on Twitter,

670
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 2: so it must be true. Favorites goes sixteen and OH

671
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 2: on Friday, sixteen and Oh on Friday, and the first

672
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 2: round of these games thirteen of thirty two games decided

673
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: by twenty points or more and High Point aside. It

674
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 2: led to the conclusion that maybe Cinderella's in this day

675
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 2: and age of Nil and Portal are dead, and it

676
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 2: would be a rare occurrence that you'd see as Cinderella

677
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: because these these Power four conference there's a Power five conferences.

678
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 2: They checked. They just chicken pick everything from these lower

679
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: schools and the better players go play the end of

680
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 2: their careers at at major colleges. Are cier rollers dead

681
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 2: in your opinion, you.

682
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 11: Are one spot on camp. What happens is you play well.

683
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:24,240
Speaker 11: You don't see development anymore out of these mid majors

684
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 11: or smaller schools that you've never heard of, because after

685
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,160
Speaker 11: one good year and they're making, you know, whatever they're

686
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 11: making at their schools, these bigger schools come in and

687
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 11: just poach them, and now you know, now those players

688
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 11: are playing for the big our conference teams. And it's

689
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 11: just that's just the way it is, and it's it's

690
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 11: really distasteful. And I don't know of anyone who likes

691
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 11: this system other than the agents, and of course the

692
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 11: players don't like if the coaches don't like it, the

693
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 11: administration doesn't like it. I mean, there's no loyalty anymore.

694
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 11: You know. There used to be times, especially a Xavier,

695
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 11: where you would see a freshman not play much, be

696
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 11: kind of shy, and then by the time they're a sophomore,

697
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,759
Speaker 11: you see a little bit more of them. Junior you

698
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 11: see a lot more of them, and then senior they

699
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 11: they like almost transformed, you know, almost a one eighty

700
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,720
Speaker 11: in terms of their productivity and in terms of their development.

701
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 11: You know, Joe Sunderman and myself where we travel with

702
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 11: these teams, you know, for this my twenty eighth year

703
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 11: doing basketball Xavier, and you know, I've seen a lot

704
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 11: of different like having different relationships with these kids and

705
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 11: to see some of them that their development from. You know,

706
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 11: they wouldn't even speak to you as a freshman. Uh,

707
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 11: then your senior year, they're coming up to you and

708
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 11: they're engaging, and you been able to form a kind

709
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 11: of a relationship with these players that just doesn't happen

710
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 11: anymore because they're not around. And you know, you get

711
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 11: to know a kid for like eight months and then

712
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 11: they're you know, they come in and then they're gone,

713
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 11: and you know they they barely know you, you barely

714
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 11: know them, and then there's just no you know, you

715
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 11: have a kid who plays four years or four different schools.

716
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 11: Where is his allegiance, what is his allegiance to what's

717
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 11: his experience? Like you know, I think it's just taken away,

718
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:33,439
Speaker 11: it's just made it transactional, and it's just I don't

719
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 11: think it's good for the sport at all. So hopefully

720
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 11: they're trying to make some rules to kind of to

721
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 11: kind of bring it back to the way it was,

722
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 11: and I think they're making steps, but I'd like them

723
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 11: to kind of implement those steps a little quicker.

724
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 2: Matt Painter got into it, well, not got into it,

725
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 2: but answer the question at the NCAA Tournament, you know

726
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 2: Miami yet we all know what Miami did this year.

727
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 2: And one of the the things that hurt Miami was

728
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 2: their strength is schedule. And Travis Steele has is on

729
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: record saying we tried to schedule these these Power five

730
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 2: Power for whatever it is conference schools and and they

731
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: wouldn't play it. And Painter came back and said, well

732
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 2: wait a minute. He said, look, it's not up to

733
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 2: these Power five conference schools to guess what year a

734
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 2: team is going to get hot, and then scheduled them.

735
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 2: And he made a case out of you know, we

736
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: played Kent State, and we we played Akron, we played

737
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:35,839
Speaker 2: these schools in the MAC before and kind of took

738
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 2: a pretty good haymaker at at Travis Steele and what

739
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: Travis Steele was trying to do this year, and I'm wondering,

740
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 2: because of the portal and because of Nil, does that

741
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: then have an effect as to what schools a major

742
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 2: power like Purdue would schedule or was this just an

743
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 2: anomaly this year? How do you see that? And does

744
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 2: does Painter have any argument as to what he's saying.

745
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 11: I think Payn has a great argument. I think the

746
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 11: the head coach from high Point, he came on and

747
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 11: he was complaining about he couldn't get schools to play,

748
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 11: and then Painter came on and says, yeah, they played Toledo,

749
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 11: they played multiple teams in the MAC. Now what the

750
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 11: head coach from from High Point was saying is we

751
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 11: can't get home games. They can't get Purdue. Yeah, Purdue

752
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,879
Speaker 11: will play them, but for Blue Purdue is not going

753
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 11: to high Point to play them. So uh so there

754
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 11: is uh These big schools do play MAC schools, they

755
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 11: do play mid majors, but under their terms. You know,

756
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 11: these big schools are not going to go to these

757
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,239
Speaker 11: mid major schools in play. You're not going to get

758
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,440
Speaker 11: a home a home that's what they want. The mid

759
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 11: majors want to play, but under their terms of hey,

760
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 11: you know, we'll play Zabra, will play at We'll play

761
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 11: home against Miami and then go to Miami. That's not

762
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 11: going to happen anymore because there's really no incentive for

763
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 11: these big schools.

764
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 5: To do that.

765
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 11: They buy these games, they guaranteed games that they they

766
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 11: pay these teams to come in and you know, these

767
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 11: mid majors come in, they get their check and they

768
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 11: go on about their business. But these big power five

769
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 11: six school schools are not going on the road to

770
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 11: play these mid majors. It doesn't happen. It's not going

771
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 11: to happen anymore. But that's what you know, these mac

772
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 11: schools are complaining about, and it's just you know, they won't.

773
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 11: These big schools will play them, just under certain circumstances

774
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 11: that the smaller schools just are not happy about. It's

775
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 11: not fair, but that's you know, that's just kind of

776
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 11: the way it is.

777
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,240
Speaker 2: Well, after we're done talking, if you got a phone

778
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 2: call offering you the possibility of officiating tonight's game between

779
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 2: UCLA and Yukon Dan Hurley against Mick Cronan, would you

780
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 2: accept that challenge.

781
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 11: Oh, I would just love to be there.

782
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 5: Of course, I had to see.

783
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,240
Speaker 11: Not only what's going on on the court, but see

784
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 11: how the two most animated coaches in all of college basketball.

785
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 11: The show that they're going to put on, it's gonna

786
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 11: be cataclysmic again. It's gonna be in I don't know

787
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 11: where I'll be focus in my eyes, on the court

788
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 11: or on the sidelines. I mean, both those coaches are great.

789
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 11: I think, uh, you know, coach Hurley is gonna unbelievable

790
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 11: job at Yukon and Mick Cronin, in my opinion, one

791
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 11: of the best coaches in all of college basketball. I mean,

792
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 11: he's done a great job and just so animated. Fine,

793
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 11: I just watch them and just laugh.

794
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 2: I said, they're both coming out of the locker room

795
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 2: tonight with their carotid arteries protruding. I mean, it's just

796
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 2: you know it's going to happen. That's so true, That's

797
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 2: so true.

798
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 11: It's fine. I can't wait to watch.

799
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 2: We're chatting with Byron Larkin, the Great Byron Larkin, Xavier

800
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 2: Hall of Famer. NCAA tournament obviously is in full bloom,

801
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 2: and just look look in a couple of weeks ten days,

802
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 2: two weeks, the portal opens again for college basketball April.

803
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 2: The seventh. What do you think Richard Patino will be

804
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 2: looking for when that portal opens, because he obviously you

805
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,439
Speaker 2: could see what he was trying to do this year defensively,

806
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 2: he just he didn't have the players that he needed

807
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 2: for that. I'm just wondering what you think he's looking

808
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 2: for in the portal when it opens.

809
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 11: Here, he's looking for a lot ken I think he

810
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 11: had a tough situation when he got the job in

811
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 11: April of last year. The portal had already been open

812
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 11: and he is so that's kind of late in the

813
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 11: recruiting portal recruiting situation season. So he had the z

814
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 11: Row returning players zero. I mean, Roddy Anderson was on

815
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 11: the team from the year before, but he red shirted,

816
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 11: so he had so he had He was put in

817
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 11: on the team that had not one player played one

818
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 11: second on his in Zaber uniform. So he was literally

819
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 11: starting from scratch, I.

820
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 2: Figured to be literally.

821
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 11: So he brought in twelve guys.

822
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 3: And.

823
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 11: A lot of those guys just didn't work out. I

824
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 11: mean they were good players, but not Big East caliber

825
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:46,480
Speaker 11: type of players. And you don't realize that until you

826
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 11: get into play that time. That time that doesn't real

827
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 11: that reveals itself over time, and that's what we saw,

828
00:45:55,440 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 11: uh this year. So I think they'll have two maybe

829
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 11: three players coming back, one of which didn't play one

830
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 11: second last year. Their number so coach Patino, I thought

831
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 11: he did an incredible job this year. They won fifteen,

832
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 11: they went fifteen and seventeen something like that games, and

833
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 11: their number one guy didn't play one minute. And that's

834
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 11: Gabriel Pisato. He was a transfer from Evansville. He was

835
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 11: you know, when coach Patino talked about who was he

836
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 11: expecting to have a big year, that was the first

837
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 11: player that he talked about. He injured his knee and

838
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 11: did not play one second. So now you're down. You're

839
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 11: theoretic best player. And Jovann Melissavich, he transferred from New Mexico.

840
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,720
Speaker 11: He had an incredible year. I mean to his jump.

841
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 11: His freshman sophomore year at New Mexico, he averaged four

842
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 11: points a game, Sure he averaged thirteen. He went from

843
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 11: four to thirteen in a bigger arguably a better league,

844
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 11: Mountain Western to the big Eiet. So he is It's

845
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 11: come out that he is returning next year, which is huge.

846
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 11: So he's got Pizzato, and he's got Melissa Vich who's

847
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 11: done a great job. Other than that, I think Papa Jai,

848
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 11: who's a backup seven footer, I think he's coming back.

849
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 11: So those are three returning players. Everybody else is gone

850
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 11: either either exhausted their eligibility or into the portal. So

851
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 11: he's got three returning players potentially and three freshmen. So

852
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 11: that's six. So now he's got to go out and

853
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 11: fill out the rest of that. So, you know, thirteen

854
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 11: players on you know, so he's going to get He's

855
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 11: going to sign seven more players this year, scholarship players.

856
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 11: He's going to have, in my understanding, almost doubled in

857
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 11: NI budgets. They have done an incredible job raising the stakes,

858
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 11: making a bigger commitment to the basketball program. And so

859
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 11: he's looking for a lot and they need a lot

860
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 11: and they need a lot of help, and I think

861
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 11: he is the one to do it because I think

862
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 11: he's an incredible coach. Really, I'm really excited for the

863
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 11: future with Richard Patino running a vavor program.

864
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jim, I'm actually seeing Jai this year too. I mean,

865
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 2: he did play in a number of games, but you know,

866
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 2: his minutes weren't great, So let's maybe there's a little

867
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 2: bit of a core there he can build around. But

868
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 2: you're right, he's got a lot of heavy lifting to

869
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 2: do starting on April and seventh. Hold of favor is great.

870
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 11: Tenching up with you.

871
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 2: You're in good health, I hope, and everything else is

872
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 2: to run along.

873
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:52,280
Speaker 5: Absolutely.

874
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 11: Life couldn't be better happy.

875
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 2: All right, Well we'll visit down the road. You know

876
00:48:57,440 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 2: about that, but until then, stay well, okay, we need

877
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 2: to hear your voice.

878
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 11: Okay, Ken, all right, thank you for inviting me on.

879
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 5: Ken.

880
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 11: It's always a pleasure. Thank you.

881
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 2: Great Firon Larkin and I don't emphasize the word great

882
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 2: enough when it comes to him. Ten twenty six News

883
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 2: Radio seven hundred WLW coming up in about twenty five minutes.

884
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,879
Speaker 2: Dave Wallolo, Fangrafts dot Com. We'll wander on in here

885
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 2: and we'll preview the Reds. Opening day is Thursday. Meanwhile,

886
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 2: free agency goes on in the National Football League, and look,

887
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 2: opinions on what teams are doing are all over the place.

888
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 2: You find some that think the Bengals are absolutely addressing

889
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,240
Speaker 2: what they need on defense and others that are saying,

890
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 2: what wait, where the edge rush. Really, this is in

891
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 2: the wake of Trey Hendrickson and Joseph Asai. This is

892
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 2: what's next. I think most people think that Cook was

893
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 2: a nice addition in the safety spot. I can't argue.

894
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 2: Here's the linebacker. Where is the veteran linebacker? We went

895
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 2: with the kids last year and it was a car wreck.

896
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 2: Where's the linebacker? And is it too late to find

897
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 2: one in free agency? Now standing by to join us

898
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 2: right now is someone that chronicles the NFL and chronicles

899
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 2: the NFL better than anyone I know. He is one

900
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: of the premier sports writers in this country and one

901
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 2: of the premier NFL analysts in fact, anytime we can

902
00:50:25,719 --> 00:50:28,359
Speaker 2: get Zachary Peerless on this show, it's a good day.

903
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 2: And Zachary Peerless is standing by to join us right

904
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 2: now with his expert opinion. And Zach, how are you

905
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 2: on this glorious Sunday.

906
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 4: I'm great, I'm great. Wow one an introduction, thanks so much.

907
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 11: Yeah, I'm great.

908
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,239
Speaker 2: Well, let me just say this, Zach I like your work,

909
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: and I like it a lot, and I've been following

910
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 2: what you're writing. Yet a nice story about Andy Dalton

911
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 2: getting traded. Andy Dalton is like that Johnny cash Song.

912
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 2: He's been everywhere, man, but of course we still remember

913
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 2: him rather fondly here in Cincinnati. But I wanted to

914
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 2: get you on the show because of your your writings

915
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,240
Speaker 2: out what teams are doing and what they're not doing.

916
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,720
Speaker 2: And look, boy A Mafe I think is a good addition.

917
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say great yet. Jonathan Allen is an interesting addition.

918
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,960
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say great yet. Brian Cook is a good addition.

919
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 2: I think he's going to be terrific in just settling

920
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 2: down that Bengals defensive secondary. But I'm looking around and

921
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 2: I'm saying to myself, where is the veteran linebacker? And

922
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,479
Speaker 2: why did they pass on so many that were there

923
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 2: for the taking at least early in free agency. I mean,

924
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 2: Devin Woyd and Leo Chanell they're not here, And I'm

925
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 2: wondering why. Are you wondering why? As well?

926
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 11: Yeah, I certainly am. I think that when.

927
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 4: You look at this defense, it got better at a

928
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,879
Speaker 4: couple of key spots. But the thing that brings that

929
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 4: front for that pass rush together in that secondary together,

930
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 4: and I do think that those were two good, solid moves.

931
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 2: The thing that.

932
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 4: Brings them together is a really good, heady linebacker, and

933
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 4: you're absolutely right, it is not. It's just not there

934
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 4: right now. Like it's not. There's no two ways about it.

935
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 4: You can't really squint and see one. I really do

936
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 4: think that it's it's a pretty gigantic hole. And the

937
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 4: fact that there were some guys like you mentioned who

938
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,399
Speaker 4: seemed to fit the bill also are not there. It's

939
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 4: it's a concern.

940
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 5: Absolutely.

941
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,520
Speaker 2: I'm looking at Chanelle. Now, I'm not saying any of

942
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 2: these names are great names and they're going to change

943
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 2: the fate of the free world. But I look at

944
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: Leo Chanell. I thought he was a decent player. He

945
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 2: came at decent money to Washington. I mean it was

946
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,960
Speaker 2: three years, twenty four mili average annual value of about

947
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 2: eight eight point two million. I thought he would have

948
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 2: been a nice fit here. Did you think he would

949
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 2: have been a nice fit here?

950
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:57,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think that he is a very good

951
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,839
Speaker 4: fit in Washington as well. Shanalo's a guy who tackles well,

952
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 4: he runs well, he covers, he just does all the things.

953
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 4: And again he did not come expensive. In fact, I

954
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:11,760
Speaker 4: was a little bit surprised at the price tag there.

955
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think you're spot on. It's just I

956
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:22,560
Speaker 4: wish that the Bengals would take one more step they took.

957
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 4: It kind of felt like they took a half step

958
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 4: forward they needed to take a step or a step

959
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 4: and a half even forward. And it's just it almost

960
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 4: leaves you with a good like almost They don't give

961
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 4: out good effort in the NFL, but it feels like

962
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 4: that's kind of what the Bengals have produced this offseason

963
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 4: so far.

964
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, So the name that's I guess has been

965
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 2: mentioned here more than any on radio talk shows and

966
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:56,280
Speaker 2: blogs and all that is Bobby Wagner. Now, Bobby Wagner

967
00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 2: has had a nice NFL career, Bobby Wagner is also

968
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 2: someone who was old and could be a stopgap and

969
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 2: maybe perhaps they're waiting for the market to come back

970
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 2: on Bobby Wagner. I know, since Bobby Wagner has too

971
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 2: many people beating his door down at this point. But

972
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 2: what of Bobby Wagner and pairying him with somebody like

973
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 2: Demetrius Knight or Barrett Carter. We're would would would at

974
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 2: his age? Would Bobby Wagner be a desperation move or

975
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:27,399
Speaker 2: do you think he would still be a fit.

976
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 4: I think Bobby Wagner can be a player who's really

977
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 4: important in the locker room at this point, though he

978
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,720
Speaker 4: is at the point in his career where he needs

979
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 4: to be playing relatively few downs, especially third downs and

980
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 4: any sort of passing down on the field. He is

981
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 4: a great leader. Having covered Washington the past couple of seasons,

982
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,560
Speaker 4: I've seen how he not single handedly but had a

983
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 4: huge role in transforming that team kind of even just

984
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 4: the feelings around that franchise. But that's really not a

985
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:09,360
Speaker 4: name that gets me excited at this point. To be honest,

986
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 4: I think that Bobby Wagner has been a tremendous.

987
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 5: Player for a long time.

988
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 4: His movement in space is just really it's just diminished.

989
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:23,839
Speaker 4: And that's what happens to players when they're Bobby Wagner's age.

990
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 4: It should happen, you know, he would still the sideline

991
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 4: the sideline star that he was with Seattle. Then he

992
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 4: would be not on the market right now. But you

993
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 4: just see the holes that comes in an aging middle linebacker.

994
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 4: He's just not quite there anymore. And I don't want

995
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:44,720
Speaker 4: It's not that I don't want him on my team.

996
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 4: I'd be upset if that was the move at linebacker

997
00:55:49,239 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 4: this offseason.

998
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:54,720
Speaker 2: I think I don't know, and it's pure speculation. Nobody

999
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 2: knows for sure what any team is going to do.

1000
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,560
Speaker 2: But they are sitting there with that tenth overall pick

1001
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 2: at this point, and I'm beginning to wonder if one

1002
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 2: of their targets there might not be Sunny Styles at

1003
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:12,759
Speaker 2: Ohio State. Now. Just because you had two rookie linebackers

1004
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 2: last year, it does not necessarily mean that you can't

1005
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 2: win with two rookie linebackers. It might have been the

1006
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 2: wrong combination of rookie linebackers. Do you think maybe that

1007
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:28,400
Speaker 2: what the lack of activity at linebacker is leading perhaps

1008
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 2: to a selection of Sonny Styles with that tenth overall pick.

1009
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 4: I would sure hope so, and I think that that

1010
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 4: would be a Bengals fans dream.

1011
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:41,839
Speaker 5: Sonny Styles is a guy who.

1012
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 4: Obviously we saw in Indianapolis at the combine, is absolutely

1013
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 4: tremendous athlete. The film matches that the way that he

1014
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 4: comes down. I'm really impressed by how physically he can

1015
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 4: play the run. You know, takes on blockers really well

1016
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 4: and can blow up places sometimes by not even making

1017
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 4: a tackle, but by just taking out a blocker and

1018
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:08,320
Speaker 4: that gives his defensive lineman an extra second. Maybe a

1019
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:11,840
Speaker 4: guy like Caleb Downs flying down and making a tackle

1020
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,359
Speaker 4: as well. And I know Caleb Downs has been a

1021
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 4: name maybe as well floating around at that pick. So

1022
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 4: I think Sonny Styles would be awesome. I would also

1023
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,600
Speaker 4: be surprised if he is there. I think that he

1024
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 4: has had the type of pre draft process where he

1025
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 4: might not be there by the time the Bengals pick.

1026
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think you're dead on on. You know,

1027
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 2: if the Bengals, if we're thinking about it, other teams

1028
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 2: are thinking about it as well. And as you well know,

1029
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 2: in the draft, there's a lot of gamesmanship and blocking

1030
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 2: other teams and trading up and things like that. So yeah,

1031
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 2: I would be surprised. I would be surprised to be

1032
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 2: the one of those guys are available. Downs or Styles

1033
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 2: were chatting with Zach Perlis of cbssports dot com. You

1034
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 2: wrote a story, I want to say, maybe two or

1035
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 2: three days after free agency and the first wave of

1036
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 2: it ended. There's several moves you like. You like Kyler

1037
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 2: Murray the quarterback to the Vikings. I do too. I

1038
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 2: don't think JJ McCarthy is the answer another move that

1039
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 2: you like too in this is well obviously Hendrickson to

1040
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 2: the Ravens, but you like Kenneth Walker the running back

1041
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 2: to the Chiefs. These are as you put it, these

1042
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 2: are playoff changing moves that may get these teams back

1043
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 2: into the playoffs. And the thing that is occurring right

1044
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:33,760
Speaker 2: now in Carolina where you you know Jleb, Jalen Phillips

1045
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 2: the edge rusher, Devin Lloyd the linebacker. You think that's

1046
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 2: a move that really and truly both of those moves

1047
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 2: can get Carolina back into the playoff picture. In an

1048
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 2: NFL C South that's anything but a strong division. So

1049
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 2: now there's several moves that you like. The ones that

1050
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 2: you listed were the two that the Panthers made, and

1051
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 2: I agree with you. I think that changes the complete

1052
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 2: dynamic in that division. And it sounds like you.

1053
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:02,439
Speaker 5: Too, I do.

1054
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 4: I really like Carolina on not only just making the

1055
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 4: first slash Jalen Phillips. That is a big, big number

1056
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 4: for Jalen Phillips, but when he has been healthy, he

1057
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 4: has been absolutely everything that you could want in a

1058
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 4: defensive end. He's disruptive. I know the sac numbers aren't there,

1059
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 4: but the pressure numbers are there. He's just a very

1060
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 4: good player. Obviously you're taking a big swing with the health,

1061
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 4: but I think that that was great. But what I

1062
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:33,919
Speaker 4: really like is that they pair him with a guy

1063
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 4: like Devin Lloyd. You can't it's really tough to go

1064
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 4: and pay one defender a ton of money. And Jalen

1065
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 4: Phillips he's not perfect, he has questions. There's a reason

1066
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 4: that he was available. The fact that you pair him

1067
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:51,479
Speaker 4: with another front seven defender. I was just really really

1068
00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 4: impressed by that move. I think that you know, defenses

1069
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 4: can be okay, they can hold up, and kind of

1070
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 4: the Panthers their ability to win life year.

1071
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 5: They won a lot of close games.

1072
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,959
Speaker 4: And they had they forced a decent number of turnovers.

1073
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 4: They're gonna take a step in terms of being better

1074
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 4: down to down, especially with Devin Lloyd and Jalens Phillips.

1075
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 4: I really do like what they did there. And you

1076
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,080
Speaker 4: mentioned at the NFC South like, I don't know if

1077
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 4: there's a single team that I trust to win double

1078
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 4: digit games. The Panthers probably took the best step there.

1079
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 4: But it's a big year for Bryce Young. Last year

1080
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 4: was a big year and you saw some good signs

1081
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 4: but that offense still was not very good or very consistent.

1082
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 4: They lost a one thousand yard rusher in Rico Dowdell,

1083
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,960
Speaker 4: which I don't know if you can just find another,

1084
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 4: you know, kind of diamond in the rouugh. So I'm

1085
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 4: really interested to see if the Panthers make a big

1086
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 4: enough leap defensively. They have assembled a decent amount of

1087
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 4: talent there, you know, adding him to a group that

1088
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 4: already has Derek Brown, already has j. C.

1089
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:55,680
Speaker 5: Horn.

1090
01:00:57,160 --> 01:00:59,560
Speaker 4: So I think if they've done a good job, but again,

1091
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 4: like they could do a good job and go nine

1092
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 4: to eight and win the NFC South a kind of

1093
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 4: like absolutely past.

1094
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 2: Year, Absolutely Phillips gets four years, one hundred and twenty

1095
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 2: million dollars and they follow that up Devin Lloyd three years,

1096
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 2: forty five million dollars, a major splash by Carolina, And

1097
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 2: you're right, I mean you could, you could, you could

1098
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 2: have another, you could have sub five hundred record again

1099
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 2: in that division and win that division. I mean, it's

1100
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 2: just it's amazing. But these are bold moves by teams,

1101
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 2: and around here we're still waiting for that next bold move.

1102
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 2: We'll see if it happens. Even before it happens. Zack

1103
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 2: Peerless will probably know about it, so read him. He's

1104
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 2: on cbssports dot com right now. And Zach stay well

1105
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 2: Man will visit down the road. But for your time today, thanks.

1106
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,360
Speaker 11: Thanks so much. Ken, always a pleasure.

1107
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:55,680
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, Yeah, the linebacker thing is disturbing. But yeah,

1108
01:01:55,720 --> 01:02:00,080
Speaker 2: I mean, okay, you know Mafe okay that that that

1109
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 2: that looks like a good move. Alan, okay, Cook looks

1110
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 2: like a home run. Resigning Reisner good, extending Brown good.

1111
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 2: But okay, where is that? Where is that next big thump?

1112
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 2: Where is that? I think we're all waiting for it,

1113
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 2: and it may not come. It's ten fifty four on

1114
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 2: this Sunday, still to come, Dave laurla Fangrafts dot com.

1115
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,959
Speaker 2: Opening Day is Thursday for your Cincinnati Reds, who wrap

1116
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 2: it up in Goodyear, Arizona. Later on this afternoon on

1117
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:37,560
Speaker 2: seven hundred WLW.

1118
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 1: Now news Radio seven hundred w LW presents Sunday Morning

1119
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 1: Sports Talk with your host, Ken Brew on news Radio

1120
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 1: seven hundred w LW.

1121
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:53,560
Speaker 2: Welcome on in. We've got another hour to go. Red's Bake.

1122
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 2: This will be the quickest Reds exhibition game of the season.

1123
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 2: They just want to get out. They want to get

1124
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 2: out and get on with it. Of course, they break

1125
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:09,080
Speaker 2: camp out there today after their exhibition game against the Guardians,

1126
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 2: and then go to Milwaukee and play a couple of games,

1127
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:15,360
Speaker 2: and then opening day is set for Thursday. Here it

1128
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 2: looks like a high of seventy eight and there will

1129
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 2: be rain. But the rain looks like it is going

1130
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 2: to be a morning event and done by eight o'clock.

1131
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 2: At least that's the way it looks like at this hour.

1132
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:33,640
Speaker 2: But Thursday, seventy eight, Opening Day, rain done by eight o'clock.

1133
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 2: I think that's pretty dang good for a four o'clock start.

1134
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 2: This will be the first time ever the Reds open

1135
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 2: a season against the Boston Red Sox. A little bit

1136
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 2: of history there, of course, sell a lot of excitement

1137
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 2: about the Reds this year and how they're every day

1138
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 2: nine is shaping up, particularly with the addition of aeu

1139
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 2: Haaneosarez and the continuation of La Daily Cruz in the

1140
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 2: development of his particular game, and just the overall, even

1141
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 2: with the injury to Hunter Green in that starting rotation,

1142
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 2: the excitement that's around the starting rotation right now. We

1143
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 2: may see Rhet Lauder on a full time basis here

1144
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 2: at least for a while until Green gets healthy. So

1145
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 2: there's a lot of things that we have to look

1146
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 2: forward to. One of the things I look forward to

1147
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 2: every single Sunday is on fangraphs dot com right now.

1148
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 2: It is the Sunday Notes of my next guest, because

1149
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be the start of a baseball season without

1150
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 2: having Dave Laurla from fangrafts dot com join us for

1151
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 2: a little preseason look at our Cincinnati Reds. And you've

1152
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 2: got to read his notes column today because he has

1153
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 2: a nice little couple of little paragraphs with Chris Welsh

1154
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 2: and how Chris thinks that Matt McClean is the key

1155
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:55,120
Speaker 2: to this particular team this year. And McLain has bopped

1156
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 2: the ball this spring, no question about it. But here

1157
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 2: now the author of all of that, the esteem mister

1158
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 2: laurel of from vangrams dot com. David, how are you

1159
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 2: on this glorious Sunday?

1160
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 12: Good morning, Ken. It is a glorious Sunday because it

1161
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 12: is the last Sunday without a regular season big league baseball.

1162
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 2: It is I often lament the fact that it's done

1163
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 2: well around here. Up until last year, it was done

1164
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 2: in September or late September, and how we have to

1165
01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:28,439
Speaker 2: spend all this off season just knowing over what could

1166
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 2: have been and then trying to think of what might be.

1167
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 2: It just seems this offseason flew by, and I'm not

1168
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 2: sure why, but here it is. You're absolutely right.

1169
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 13: Now.

1170
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 2: Look you've got a little tidbit in there about Matt

1171
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 2: McClain this season. I think he stunned a lot of people.

1172
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 2: He's hitting over five hundred, close to six hundred for

1173
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:50,919
Speaker 2: exhibition baseball, and I know it's the exhibition season, and look,

1174
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 2: there's only so much you can glean from that. But

1175
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 2: if he delivers the way he delivered a couple of

1176
01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 2: years ago before he got hurt, it changes as you

1177
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 2: run the whole dynamic of this every day nine. I'm

1178
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:07,760
Speaker 2: he's the most exciting player for me going into this

1179
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 2: red season, and it sounds like he is for you

1180
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 2: as well.

1181
01:06:12,560 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 12: Well. I think that was more Chris Chris Wells than I.

1182
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 12: You know, I asked Chris's opinion. I would actually not

1183
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 12: say that McClain is the key to this the you know,

1184
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 12: the season from a position player standpoint, I actually think

1185
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 12: it's Ellie de la Cruz because de la Cruz was

1186
01:06:31,600 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 12: good last year, but he wasn't great. Ellie de Lacruz

1187
01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 12: can be great and he needs to be this year

1188
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:43,320
Speaker 12: for the Reds offense to to really go because I

1189
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:47,520
Speaker 12: mean he all of everybody listening here has seen what

1190
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 12: he can do with his wheels, with his power. Stars

1191
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 12: win stars win, right, and he is the one player

1192
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 12: who can be a star. I think McClain is a

1193
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,600
Speaker 12: good player, but he could never be a quote unquote star.

1194
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,080
Speaker 2: No, but if he delivers like he did a couple

1195
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:09,480
Speaker 2: of years ago, that makes the top of that order

1196
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:12,720
Speaker 2: a head of a lot formidable. Now let's just talk

1197
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:15,200
Speaker 2: about Daya Cruz. He had a decent spring he had

1198
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 2: for two eighty four. Last year, he played the majority

1199
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 2: of the second half of the season with a quad

1200
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 2: injury that he apparently told no one about or played through,

1201
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 2: so I'm not sure how healthy he was. His defense

1202
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 2: seems to be improving this spring as well, and I

1203
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:35,560
Speaker 2: think that's a major plus for him, and maybe the

1204
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 2: last hurdle that he had to get through. But I

1205
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 2: don't think there's anybody that doesn't think that if Ellie

1206
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:44,320
Speaker 2: day la Cruz isn't having a good season. The chances

1207
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 2: of this team having a good season are not very good.

1208
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 2: But I think he was playing hurt last year.

1209
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 4: Dave No, I believe that he was.

1210
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 12: That is what I have read. Another name that I

1211
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 12: think is important with this team, South Stewart. Having a

1212
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:02,919
Speaker 12: Rookie of the year quality season would do a lot

1213
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 12: for this team because I know when I was on

1214
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:08,200
Speaker 12: your show last year a few times, you know, talking

1215
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 12: about team need, I said they need power more than anything,

1216
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 12: and he brings that. Aohanosh brings power, certainly, you know,

1217
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:19,719
Speaker 12: but a whole lot of strikeouts he does.

1218
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 2: But I think that the the addition to Suarez takes

1219
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:25,880
Speaker 2: the heat off of Sal Stewart a little bit. And

1220
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 2: I think he was viewed this year as being that

1221
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 2: that power, that X factor, that four a whole hitter,

1222
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 2: and that's a lot to throw on somebody that was

1223
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:37,760
Speaker 2: only in the major leagues from September on last year.

1224
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 2: So I think I think as a residual effect of

1225
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 2: signing Suarez, and who knows that he has the numbers

1226
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:46,600
Speaker 2: he had last year. Yeah, I hope he does. But

1227
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 2: I think it also takes a little bit of the

1228
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:49,400
Speaker 2: heat off Stewart, don't.

1229
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:53,320
Speaker 12: You no, he would, uh, you know, an impact that

1230
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 12: like that does affect the rest of the lineup. I'm

1231
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 12: actually gonna throw a question at you, Ken, I'm going

1232
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:03,519
Speaker 12: to challenge you here. Okay, you have you are certainly

1233
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:08,400
Speaker 12: familiar with Baseball Reference listing the closest to comps for players.

1234
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:14,519
Speaker 12: Do you have any guesses who Aohann saz Suarez is

1235
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:17,679
Speaker 12: easy for me to say what his what his top

1236
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:19,760
Speaker 12: comp is statistically?

1237
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:22,400
Speaker 2: You mean the the the player that he would be

1238
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 2: most comparable to in his in his major league career.

1239
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:29,800
Speaker 12: So far, that is correct, and I'll give you a hint.

1240
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,320
Speaker 12: It is a former Cincinnati Red.

1241
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 2: Former Cincinnati Read. Help me about this. How far back

1242
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 2: are we going with the rigs? I mean, we're talking

1243
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:42,720
Speaker 2: about recent history here.

1244
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:46,679
Speaker 12: We are talking relatively recent history.

1245
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 2: Okay, So it would have to be somebody that would

1246
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:56,879
Speaker 2: have been not a great hitter for average, and somebody

1247
01:09:56,920 --> 01:10:01,599
Speaker 2: that had great power or or very good power numbers.

1248
01:10:01,720 --> 01:10:03,880
Speaker 2: I guess, I guess that would be the parameter, and

1249
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,720
Speaker 2: someone that he has not that had not been I

1250
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:12,280
Speaker 2: would former Cincinnati Read the only two people I could

1251
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:14,719
Speaker 2: think of right now that would be similar to him,

1252
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 2: and their recent would be either Adam Dunn or Jay Bruce.

1253
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:22,360
Speaker 2: Thoseuld be the two that come to mind. Is it

1254
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:23,519
Speaker 2: farther back than those two?

1255
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 12: It is? My guess would have been Adam Dunn, but

1256
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 12: it is not done hit, done, walk, so you know

1257
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:35,439
Speaker 12: a lot more. And he had, I mean he had

1258
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:39,280
Speaker 12: and he had he must have hit forty plus, you know,

1259
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:42,639
Speaker 12: five or six times. The answer is Jay. The answer

1260
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 12: is Jay Bruce.

1261
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:44,080
Speaker 5: J Bruce.

1262
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:45,960
Speaker 3: Uh.

1263
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:50,679
Speaker 12: There they have almost exactly the same number of games played, hits,

1264
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 12: home runs, RBIs and walks. Wow Flarez Suarez strikes out

1265
01:10:57,240 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 12: more than Bruce did, but not really by a huge

1266
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,720
Speaker 12: So I think that is maybe what Red's task can

1267
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:07,840
Speaker 12: expect from Slarez is a right handed hitting Jay Bruce,

1268
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:11,639
Speaker 12: who actually was probably who is a better soccer player

1269
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:16,440
Speaker 12: than Jay Bruce. I know he is. Apparently he smiles

1270
01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 12: when you bring up soccer.

1271
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:20,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. Even The other name that was going

1272
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 2: to come to mind was Encarnacione. That was here for

1273
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:28,280
Speaker 2: a hot minute as well. But but Jay Bruce, Yeah,

1274
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 2: that would that would uh yeah, that would stand the

1275
01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 2: reason a little bit about Key Brian Hayes, because Key

1276
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,240
Speaker 2: Brian Hayes is not going to hit for average. He

1277
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 2: he he isn't hitting for average this spring, but he

1278
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:48,719
Speaker 2: is a gold Gloves second baseman. Where would you see

1279
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 2: right now this Reds infield if you had a look

1280
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:56,360
Speaker 2: at this Red's infield and analyze it knowing that and

1281
01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:59,599
Speaker 2: I'm talking from a defensive standpoint and not necessarily talking

1282
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 2: from a standpoint of you know, production, But when you

1283
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 2: have McLean at second, data, Cruz at short, Sal Stewart

1284
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:11,799
Speaker 2: probably at first base, although they're going to get steering

1285
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 2: the lineup, he'll be out in left field primarily, and

1286
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 2: you have key Brian Hayes defensively? Is that is that

1287
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:20,639
Speaker 2: an infield that you feel comfortable with?

1288
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 12: Sure, you know it is fine. In today's game with

1289
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 12: so many strikeouts, defense arguably doesn't matter as much as

1290
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:36,439
Speaker 12: it used to, but it still matters the Reds. The

1291
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 12: Reds do have pitchers who are going to put the

1292
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:41,040
Speaker 12: The ball will be put in play, you know, especially

1293
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 12: with Hunter Green out. They don't have big strikeout guys.

1294
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 12: But if I'm the Reds, would I be satisfied defensively

1295
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:49,600
Speaker 12: with that infield? Absolutely?

1296
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:54,200
Speaker 2: Now, what of you mentioned Green? He's not in the rotation.

1297
01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:56,960
Speaker 2: Obviously it won't be I think until at least after

1298
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 2: the All Star breaking maybe later we'll you know, at

1299
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:02,679
Speaker 2: least injuries take on a life of their own. But

1300
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:05,559
Speaker 2: that bums Andrew Abbot to the top of the rotation,

1301
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:07,880
Speaker 2: and then Lodolo and then Singer, and then you get

1302
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:12,360
Speaker 2: into the kids, Burns and Louder, maybe Brandon Williamson as well.

1303
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:15,639
Speaker 2: How much does the loss of Hunter Green hurt this

1304
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:19,639
Speaker 2: team in terms of starting pitching and knowing that they

1305
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:23,240
Speaker 2: have Louder and knowing that they have Burns. Is there

1306
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 2: a way for them to at least remain competitive from

1307
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:30,080
Speaker 2: a starting rotation until and F Green gets back.

1308
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:34,439
Speaker 12: No, absolutely, any team is going to be hurt if

1309
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 12: you lose your best pitcher, and I guess Green probably

1310
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:43,680
Speaker 12: qualifies as the Red's best picture when healthy. We were

1311
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 12: talking early on here in the conversation Ken about keys

1312
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:52,360
Speaker 12: to the team's success. I think that Louder or Burns

1313
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 12: or maybe Williamson stepping up and having a very strong

1314
01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:59,639
Speaker 12: season is going to be hugely important to this team.

1315
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:03,760
Speaker 12: You know, Abbott, Lodolo, Singer, those are known commodities. They're

1316
01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:06,679
Speaker 12: good picture as we pretty much know what they're going

1317
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 12: to do, but it is really difficult to predict what

1318
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 12: Lauder and Burns are going to do. They both have

1319
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:15,719
Speaker 12: a chance to be very good. They have a chance

1320
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 12: to do to not be good. Right, you know, they're

1321
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 12: not proven pictures.

1322
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:26,920
Speaker 2: The back end of the bullpen is interesting. Pagan saved

1323
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:29,240
Speaker 2: a lot of games last year. He's a fly ball pitcher.

1324
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 2: He plays half his games in Great American Ballpark, but

1325
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:35,360
Speaker 2: he tamped that down. I thought a lot last year.

1326
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 2: Graham Ashcraft, I think is has found his niche. I'm

1327
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 2: more comfortable with him now than I was even a

1328
01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:48,160
Speaker 2: year ago. After that, I mean, that's where I start

1329
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 2: to get a little Lancy sam Mall, left hander, only

1330
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:54,360
Speaker 2: made the roster because he's a left hander. Connor Phillips,

1331
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 2: Pierce Johnson, brock Burke, I'm a little skittish on the

1332
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 2: makeup of that bullpen. Once you get buy Pegone and Ashcraft,

1333
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:06,680
Speaker 2: where are you on where that bullpen is and is

1334
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:09,680
Speaker 2: it good enough? Or do you think that's something that

1335
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:12,280
Speaker 2: still will need to be addressed in some way, shape

1336
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 2: or form even after opening day?

1337
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 12: You know, Ken, this is a question that I could

1338
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:24,960
Speaker 12: be asked on the radio show that covers maybe twenty

1339
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 12: eight or thirty teams. Is bullpens are so volatile year

1340
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:32,960
Speaker 12: to year. You know, you've got your established closers, you know,

1341
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 12: maybe a setup man for most teams who you kind

1342
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:38,280
Speaker 12: of know what you're going to get. But you start

1343
01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:42,560
Speaker 12: talking bullpen depth. Every year, you have guys who underachieved,

1344
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:46,800
Speaker 12: you have guys who overachieved, guys pitching the bullpen for

1345
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:51,200
Speaker 12: a reason, they're not good enough to be starters. So statistically,

1346
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:55,599
Speaker 12: and I'm sure you know this, bullpens are very hard

1347
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 12: to predict. So do the Reds have enough in their pen?

1348
01:15:58,840 --> 01:15:59,440
Speaker 4: Probably?

1349
01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:03,640
Speaker 12: Could they use more in quote unquote better? You know,

1350
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:07,080
Speaker 12: every team can. I don't know if that's really, you know,

1351
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:09,800
Speaker 12: a definitive answer, but it's that's that's what I've got.

1352
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:13,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I and you're right. I mean it's a

1353
01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:16,280
Speaker 2: question that probably answer is being asked in virtually every

1354
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:18,400
Speaker 2: major league market right now. I do want to ask

1355
01:16:18,439 --> 01:16:22,120
Speaker 2: about one player. And I don't think that it's any

1356
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:25,559
Speaker 2: secret that you're you're you're based in the in the

1357
01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:28,960
Speaker 2: Northeaster based up in New England, in the New England area.

1358
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:33,320
Speaker 2: Tell me about Nathaniel Lowe because I even though he

1359
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:37,599
Speaker 2: is a bench player and and uh Terry Francona said

1360
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 2: it as late as yesterday. He is a bench guy

1361
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:44,200
Speaker 2: and he doesn't envision him playing unless injury dictates much

1362
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:47,559
Speaker 2: in the field. I was excited about his signing for

1363
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 2: one reason. I thought he brought some juice to the

1364
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:54,240
Speaker 2: Red Sox last year. And everybody knows, or everybody should know,

1365
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:59,120
Speaker 2: what Nathaniel Lowe did a couple of years ago when

1366
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:01,360
Speaker 2: he was with a tech his rangers wasn't all that

1367
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:05,800
Speaker 2: long ago. That's a good bat off the bench. I

1368
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:09,080
Speaker 2: think it speaks to the depth that they have with

1369
01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 2: once you get past the every day nine. They got

1370
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 2: good bats coming off the bench. And if low is

1371
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:18,960
Speaker 2: simply a bat bench, that should tell you about the

1372
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:22,240
Speaker 2: depth on this team. Am I reading too much into this?

1373
01:17:22,479 --> 01:17:24,519
Speaker 2: And where are you on Nathaniel low.

1374
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:29,280
Speaker 12: Uh? As you pointed out, low had a really big

1375
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:32,240
Speaker 12: season a handful of years ago, maybe twenty five or

1376
01:17:32,280 --> 01:17:35,519
Speaker 12: thirty home runs. He's always been a good hitter. I

1377
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:39,800
Speaker 12: do know that that last year was a down year

1378
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:42,719
Speaker 12: for him. You know, he didn't hit quite as well

1379
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:45,479
Speaker 12: he did, you know, bring some extra pop to Boston.

1380
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:49,599
Speaker 12: But yes, if a player like that is not being

1381
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:53,080
Speaker 12: counted on as one of your year starting nine, you

1382
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 12: know that's that is a positive. The Reds do have

1383
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 12: depth this year, which is and they have pitching depths

1384
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:02,479
Speaker 12: relative to most teams, which which is one reason that

1385
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:05,800
Speaker 12: I find them so perplexing. You have maybe seen the

1386
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:09,680
Speaker 12: projections they're projected to win, I think seventy eight or

1387
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:13,240
Speaker 12: seventy eight games with maybe a fifteen percent odds to

1388
01:18:13,240 --> 01:18:16,800
Speaker 12: make the postseason. So let me let me hit you

1389
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:20,640
Speaker 12: hit with the second question today, Ken, I happen to

1390
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 12: know I happened. I happened to notice this recently, and

1391
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 12: I figured and I wrote this down to in case

1392
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:31,240
Speaker 12: I was on your show a season start. If the

1393
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:34,880
Speaker 12: Reds win ninety two games this year, Terry Francona will

1394
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 12: move into a tie for tenth tenth most managerial wins

1395
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:42,160
Speaker 12: in history. If the Reds lose ninety one games, if

1396
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:44,679
Speaker 12: he will tie, I think it's casey stangle for tenth

1397
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:49,640
Speaker 12: post managerial loss. So are the Reds more likely to

1398
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:51,800
Speaker 12: win ninety two games or lose ninety one?

1399
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 2: They're more likely to win, And I'll just tell you why.

1400
01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:59,000
Speaker 2: I think with the players they have, it's going to

1401
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:01,720
Speaker 2: be awfully difficult for them to lose that many games.

1402
01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:05,040
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that it's not beyond the realm

1403
01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:08,040
Speaker 2: of possibility. I just say, if you ask me and

1404
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:09,680
Speaker 2: I had to make a choice for right now, I

1405
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:13,160
Speaker 2: would say they're going to win ninety one. I don't

1406
01:19:13,160 --> 01:19:18,519
Speaker 2: think they'll lose ninety one. Yeah, I look at that

1407
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:22,400
Speaker 2: division the glasses half. I mean, I look at that division,

1408
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:25,640
Speaker 2: and I've seen all the rankings and whatnot, and I

1409
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:28,559
Speaker 2: do think it's going to be a real grind for

1410
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 2: them to make the playoffs, particularly when you've got a

1411
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:34,800
Speaker 2: team like Chicago in that division, particularly when you have

1412
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh Pittsburgh's Pittsburgh has always been bad. I don't think

1413
01:19:39,400 --> 01:19:41,960
Speaker 2: they're going to be as bad bad as they've been.

1414
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:44,280
Speaker 2: In fact, I think they could be quite good. I

1415
01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:46,560
Speaker 2: saw several exhibition games when I was in Florida the

1416
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:49,040
Speaker 2: last couple of weeks. I think Pittsburgh has got a

1417
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:51,640
Speaker 2: chance to be a lot better than people think. But

1418
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:54,840
Speaker 2: if you're asking me, do I think the Reds are

1419
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:57,519
Speaker 2: going to lose close to ninety game and they're no

1420
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:00,720
Speaker 2: way in help? Nope, not going to happen. I don't

1421
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:03,080
Speaker 2: really finish, But I don't think that's it. Do you

1422
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:06,439
Speaker 2: envision any scenario where they could qualify for the playoffs again.

1423
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:11,439
Speaker 12: Oh, of course, good, of course good. No, I do

1424
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:13,640
Speaker 12: not think they are going to lose ninety games. I

1425
01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 12: think they're probably going to be somewhere in the range

1426
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:19,160
Speaker 12: of last year it was what eighty three or eighty four.

1427
01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:22,679
Speaker 5: Yep, So there are strengths.

1428
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:26,320
Speaker 12: But again, hence my question of which is more likely.

1429
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:31,120
Speaker 12: I am confused by this team. I can't tell. I

1430
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:35,120
Speaker 12: cannot tell if the Cincinnati Reds in twenty twenty six

1431
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:37,960
Speaker 12: are a good baseball team or a mediocre baseball team.

1432
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:39,840
Speaker 12: But we're going to find out.

1433
01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:40,599
Speaker 5: Yep.

1434
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:44,879
Speaker 2: And it all starts at four five on Thursday afternoon

1435
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:47,679
Speaker 2: against the Red Sox. Good catching up with you, Dave.

1436
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 2: I loved your Notes column. I love it every Sunday,

1437
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:51,799
Speaker 2: but I loved it today. You've got some good nuggets

1438
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:54,240
Speaker 2: in there. You've got a Joe Knutsall reference, and you've

1439
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:58,400
Speaker 2: got the great inside look at Matt McLean. But anyway,

1440
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:00,800
Speaker 2: happy opening Day, come out up to you and you

1441
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:02,600
Speaker 2: and I will visit down the road, David. But for

1442
01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 2: your time today.

1443
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 5: Thanks Thanks Ken.

1444
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:12,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm confused too. I don't I don't think. I

1445
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:17,200
Speaker 2: don't think anybody should not pick Chicago to win that division.

1446
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:20,719
Speaker 2: I think Chicago wins that division right now. I'm looking

1447
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:24,559
Speaker 2: at Pakoda rankings from baseball perspectives. Right now they've got

1448
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:28,400
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh winning eighty two games. I don't think that's going

1449
01:21:28,439 --> 01:21:31,599
Speaker 2: to happen. Milwaukee, I don't know. And the Reds could

1450
01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:35,639
Speaker 2: it could go anyway, you know, if it could go anyway.

1451
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:41,080
Speaker 2: And I think McLain is a major factor in this

1452
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:43,280
Speaker 2: team this year. How he goes, I think will dictate

1453
01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:46,240
Speaker 2: how that that offense goes. And I think Suarez too.

1454
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 2: Obviously they need that bat, they need power, they need

1455
01:21:49,479 --> 01:21:53,639
Speaker 2: runs driven in. But there are elements of that bullpen

1456
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 2: that I look at and I say, how's that going

1457
01:21:56,479 --> 01:22:00,640
Speaker 2: to work? Eleven twenty six on this Sunday. Glad you

1458
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:04,400
Speaker 2: are with us, and we'll continue with some more Bengals talk.

1459
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:08,799
Speaker 2: And FC Cincinnati has got a match today, remember them.

1460
01:22:09,479 --> 01:22:11,760
Speaker 2: We'll see if they can reverse the el Stinko from

1461
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:14,920
Speaker 2: the other night. On seven hundred at WLW, it's Taxi

1462
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:19,439
Speaker 2: eleven thirty eight Stirling in at the top of the hour.

1463
01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:22,719
Speaker 2: You'll take your run up to Ridge Baseball to solve

1464
01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:27,120
Speaker 2: all the world's problems and create about a half dozen more.

1465
01:22:28,479 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 2: By the way, the Reds are starting Nick Lodolo today,

1466
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:33,000
Speaker 2: final start of the springs. He's one and one on

1467
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:38,280
Speaker 2: the spring. He's pitched thirteen and two thirds innings, seventeen hits,

1468
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:43,880
Speaker 2: eighteen strikeouts, giving up three home runs. And after that

1469
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:46,320
Speaker 2: they leave Goodyear. They had to Milwaukee for two and

1470
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 2: then here for Opening Day on Thursday. Got soccer today

1471
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:56,519
Speaker 2: at TQL Stadium one o'clock kickoff against Montreal, and then

1472
01:22:56,560 --> 01:23:00,400
Speaker 2: after this FC Cincinnati takes a two week break and

1473
01:23:00,479 --> 01:23:02,679
Speaker 2: out of that break they play three of their next

1474
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:05,840
Speaker 2: four on the road. This has not been a good

1475
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:10,360
Speaker 2: season so far for FC Cincinnati. Bounce from the Champions

1476
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:15,320
Speaker 2: Cup this past week, and through four matches in MLS competition,

1477
01:23:15,640 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 2: they have won a grand total of one and they've

1478
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:23,639
Speaker 2: lost three. They have given up eight goals and they

1479
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 2: have only scored three. Pat Noonan was asked about that

1480
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:32,360
Speaker 2: just a couple of days ago heading into today's game

1481
01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:33,440
Speaker 2: against Montreal.

1482
01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:37,120
Speaker 13: We're professionals. There's no feeling sorry for yourself. You got

1483
01:23:37,160 --> 01:23:39,439
Speaker 13: to get on with it. And it's a good thing

1484
01:23:39,479 --> 01:23:42,680
Speaker 13: that we haven't had stretches like this previously where it's

1485
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 13: felt this way. But now you have to manage those

1486
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:50,240
Speaker 13: emotions and figure out how to improve. And so that's

1487
01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:53,519
Speaker 13: maybe too simple, but that's where we're at.

1488
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, he also said, after that loss in the

1489
01:23:56,439 --> 01:23:59,639
Speaker 2: Champions Cup last I guess on Thursday night his team

1490
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:05,559
Speaker 2: played scared. It's not good you hear a professional team

1491
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:12,200
Speaker 2: coach and they play scared. Nevertheless, they try to get

1492
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:14,639
Speaker 2: it back on the rails today against Montreal one o'clock

1493
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:17,559
Speaker 2: kick at TQL Stadium. Then two weeks off and then

1494
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:19,800
Speaker 2: as I said, three of the next four after that

1495
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:24,759
Speaker 2: are on the road. The second wave of free agency

1496
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:26,920
Speaker 2: in the NFL, we're waiting for it. It has not

1497
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:32,520
Speaker 2: yet engulfed the Bengals or Cincinnati. And still on the

1498
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:37,479
Speaker 2: need list is a linebacker. Where's the veteran linebacker? Where's

1499
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 2: the need really? For a lot of NFL teams in

1500
01:24:40,240 --> 01:24:43,559
Speaker 2: the AFC particular, There is an article right now on

1501
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:47,920
Speaker 2: Pro footballfocus dot com post free agent needs for every

1502
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:50,960
Speaker 2: AFC team. It has been written by one of the

1503
01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:54,040
Speaker 2: finest football writers in America, men by the name of

1504
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:57,880
Speaker 2: Dalton Wasserman. We have Dalton on the show a lot

1505
01:24:57,960 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 2: because he can convey this vast amount of knowledge he

1506
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:06,320
Speaker 2: has to everyone regardless of their knowledge of the NFL

1507
01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:09,599
Speaker 2: and its inner workings, particularly when it comes to dollars

1508
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:12,639
Speaker 2: and cents. Because this is a man who makes infinite sense.

1509
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:16,360
Speaker 2: So let's turn to him for some guidance here in

1510
01:25:16,400 --> 01:25:19,640
Speaker 2: the greater Cincinnati area. Dalton Wasserman, how are you on

1511
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:21,160
Speaker 2: this glorious Sunday.

1512
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:24,080
Speaker 14: I'll tell you got to be one of those promoters

1513
01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:26,479
Speaker 14: for like, for professional wrestling or something like that.

1514
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:27,599
Speaker 5: I think he'd be great at it.

1515
01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:30,960
Speaker 2: I could be like me and Jane two point zero,

1516
01:25:31,080 --> 01:25:32,320
Speaker 2: couldn't I I.

1517
01:25:32,240 --> 01:25:35,000
Speaker 14: Could just that kid, yeah, like that, or like Paul

1518
01:25:35,040 --> 01:25:36,160
Speaker 14: Hayman or something like that.

1519
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:37,240
Speaker 5: You can auly do that.

1520
01:25:37,360 --> 01:25:41,439
Speaker 2: My gosh, we're digging up bones now, Paul Hayman. So look,

1521
01:25:41,479 --> 01:25:44,599
Speaker 2: I read with great interest your story. Obviously, there's there's

1522
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:46,719
Speaker 2: a lot to be done yet for the Bengals before

1523
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:50,360
Speaker 2: they completely or in a position to say we turn

1524
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:53,599
Speaker 2: this thing around. The most glaring thing that they still

1525
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:56,839
Speaker 2: need is a veteran linebacker. They can't roll out Barrett

1526
01:25:56,880 --> 01:26:00,240
Speaker 2: Carter and stick him next to Demetria to Night and say, oh,

1527
01:26:00,240 --> 01:26:02,360
Speaker 2: you know it's your two, Everything's going to be better.

1528
01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:07,080
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that you can go into the draft

1529
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:09,680
Speaker 2: in the first round and get somebody like Suddy Styles

1530
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:12,240
Speaker 2: and say, yeah, everything is going to be better at

1531
01:26:12,240 --> 01:26:16,200
Speaker 2: this critical position. What are they waiting for in your opinion,

1532
01:26:16,240 --> 01:26:19,840
Speaker 2: because it would seem like they passed on ample opportunity

1533
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:22,479
Speaker 2: so far to bring in a veteran linebacker or somebody

1534
01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:25,200
Speaker 2: that could provide help immediately. What are they waiting for?

1535
01:26:26,320 --> 01:26:27,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm not sure.

1536
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:29,320
Speaker 14: I mean, I would agree with you that there was opportunities,

1537
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:31,200
Speaker 14: especially with some good contract value.

1538
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:31,400
Speaker 4: Right.

1539
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:33,160
Speaker 14: You look at a guy like Devin Bush who went

1540
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:34,680
Speaker 14: from Cleveland to Chicago.

1541
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:35,360
Speaker 5: For ten million a year.

1542
01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:37,880
Speaker 14: Leo Chanal's a young player who I think would have

1543
01:26:37,880 --> 01:26:39,960
Speaker 14: fit in perfectly. He got just over eight million a

1544
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:42,479
Speaker 14: year from Washington, Right. If you want a more veteran guy,

1545
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:45,160
Speaker 14: guys like Quincy Williams or to Mario Davis in that

1546
01:26:45,240 --> 01:26:47,640
Speaker 14: theme price range. So I really don't know. You know,

1547
01:26:47,680 --> 01:26:50,439
Speaker 14: I don't think the money was an issue necessarily. It's

1548
01:26:50,479 --> 01:26:52,719
Speaker 14: just a matter of them wanting to go and attack

1549
01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:55,479
Speaker 14: this position, right, and it just seems like they weren't

1550
01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:57,840
Speaker 14: able to do so in free agency. Now we'll see

1551
01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 14: how the board falls. Obviously a ten overall with a

1552
01:27:00,280 --> 01:27:02,320
Speaker 14: guy like Sunny Styles. A lot of people think he

1553
01:27:02,400 --> 01:27:04,000
Speaker 14: could go before that, but I'll tell you it is

1554
01:27:04,040 --> 01:27:06,439
Speaker 14: a deep linebacker class. So if they wanted to go

1555
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:08,920
Speaker 14: in round two or three and get another young player

1556
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:11,639
Speaker 14: to get into that room, I think it does make

1557
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:13,800
Speaker 14: some sense to add more talent. But you're right, I

1558
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:15,880
Speaker 14: thought they needed a veteran leader, and it feels like

1559
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 14: they missed an opportunity to get one.

1560
01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:21,920
Speaker 2: I'm not against the theory of putting two young linebackers together.

1561
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:24,400
Speaker 2: I just think they had the wrong combination last year.

1562
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:26,559
Speaker 2: If you were to bring in Sunny Styles and say,

1563
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:29,280
Speaker 2: for example, okay, you're going to be right next to

1564
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:32,760
Speaker 2: Demetrius Knight, who also has a year under his belt

1565
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:35,720
Speaker 2: in the NFL, I'm not completely against that, but I

1566
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:39,160
Speaker 2: just think the position cries out for a veteran, and

1567
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:43,080
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, most of the desirable veterans have already signed.

1568
01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:45,920
Speaker 2: I mean, you're down to guys like Bobby Wagner, who's

1569
01:27:46,120 --> 01:27:49,120
Speaker 2: I think thirty six years old, and Jermaine Pratt, who

1570
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:52,200
Speaker 2: they had here before. There's not really a lot left

1571
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:54,840
Speaker 2: past them, is there? No?

1572
01:27:54,920 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 11: Not much?

1573
01:27:55,400 --> 01:27:57,559
Speaker 14: And I mean I agree, I think Wagner would probably

1574
01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:00,479
Speaker 14: be the best option. At this point, especially, you know,

1575
01:28:00,600 --> 01:28:02,840
Speaker 14: especially just given his experience and he's one of the

1576
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:05,280
Speaker 14: ultimate leader's future Hall of Famer. I still think he's

1577
01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:08,000
Speaker 14: one of the best linebackers in football. But you're still

1578
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:10,640
Speaker 14: going to need some complimentary guys in coverage right to

1579
01:28:10,720 --> 01:28:12,760
Speaker 14: kind of help him out in space. You know, I

1580
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:15,000
Speaker 14: think Wagner is probably the best option, but as far

1581
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:17,680
Speaker 14: as other veteran options, not necessarily guys that are going

1582
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:19,320
Speaker 14: to change the complexion of your defense.

1583
01:28:19,479 --> 01:28:24,320
Speaker 2: Okay, you also say that they need interior defensive line.

1584
01:28:24,600 --> 01:28:28,080
Speaker 2: They've been addressing the defensive line mostly from the edge.

1585
01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:32,439
Speaker 2: Chris Jenkins arrived here two years ago, and everybody made

1586
01:28:32,479 --> 01:28:34,360
Speaker 2: a big deal about him being able to do the

1587
01:28:34,400 --> 01:28:37,439
Speaker 2: Turkish get up. I guess that wasn't part of the

1588
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:40,519
Speaker 2: game plan that the Bengals had for him. Nevertheless, he

1589
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:44,360
Speaker 2: seems like a big disappointment. McKinley Jackson seems like a

1590
01:28:44,400 --> 01:28:48,320
Speaker 2: big disappointment. So here they go shopping again for interior

1591
01:28:48,360 --> 01:28:52,240
Speaker 2: defensive linemen. Again, a lot of names have come and

1592
01:28:52,280 --> 01:28:55,519
Speaker 2: gone so far in free agency. Who are they waiting for?

1593
01:28:55,760 --> 01:28:56,320
Speaker 2: Your opinion?

1594
01:28:57,680 --> 01:28:59,920
Speaker 14: I think, honestly, this makes me wonder if they're going

1595
01:28:59,920 --> 01:29:02,799
Speaker 14: to take a big swing at number ten overall, depending

1596
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:04,960
Speaker 14: on how the board falls, with maybe a Caleb Banks

1597
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:08,000
Speaker 14: from Florida, Peter Woods from Clemson, right, somebody who can

1598
01:29:08,080 --> 01:29:11,120
Speaker 14: really get in the backfield and make an impact.

1599
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:12,160
Speaker 5: Right, especially as a pass rusher.

1600
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:14,479
Speaker 14: Now, they brought in Jonathan Allen, who isn't quite what

1601
01:29:14,600 --> 01:29:16,280
Speaker 14: he used to be as a pass rusher, but he

1602
01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:18,720
Speaker 14: brings something still. I just think when you look at

1603
01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:21,240
Speaker 14: the names there, all those guys you've just mentioned, you know,

1604
01:29:21,439 --> 01:29:22,880
Speaker 14: it's a lot of names. It's a lot of guys

1605
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:24,760
Speaker 14: who can you know, get the job done. But there's

1606
01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:26,639
Speaker 14: not a lot of impact right. There's not a lot

1607
01:29:26,640 --> 01:29:28,960
Speaker 14: of tackles for loss. There's not a lot of sacks

1608
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:31,720
Speaker 14: Like who, really, who in that interior scares you to

1609
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:34,559
Speaker 14: me right now? Nobody. They need somebody at the top

1610
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:37,080
Speaker 14: end of that talent ceiling that can scare you on

1611
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:40,200
Speaker 14: the interior and really change the blocking schemes up front

1612
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:42,559
Speaker 14: for an offense. They just don't have that guy right now.

1613
01:29:42,680 --> 01:29:44,920
Speaker 2: Okay, So if they take a swing at ten at

1614
01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:48,120
Speaker 2: interior defensive line, give me a name? Did you give

1615
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:48,519
Speaker 2: me a name?

1616
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:53,680
Speaker 14: The Bengals love their guys with big physical tools, and

1617
01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:56,559
Speaker 14: the guy at the position. There is Caleb Banks from Florida.

1618
01:29:56,680 --> 01:29:58,519
Speaker 14: Now there is a lot of risk to him because

1619
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 14: he only played three games this pass year.

1620
01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:01,280
Speaker 5: He's ten foot injuries.

1621
01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:03,559
Speaker 14: I believe he's got a broken foot right now that

1622
01:30:03,640 --> 01:30:06,240
Speaker 14: he even works through the combine with. He's got all

1623
01:30:06,280 --> 01:30:08,599
Speaker 14: the potential in the world. He's sixty six, he's three

1624
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:10,880
Speaker 14: hundred and thirty pounds, he's quick as a cat. But

1625
01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:14,439
Speaker 14: he's just inconsistent right and his game does need some work.

1626
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:16,640
Speaker 14: So the potential, high end potential is there. And if

1627
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:18,880
Speaker 14: you just watch his highlights a twenty or thirty best

1628
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:21,559
Speaker 14: plays of his career, you go, Wow, that guy's an animal.

1629
01:30:21,600 --> 01:30:23,760
Speaker 14: But he's got to get more consistent. Like I said,

1630
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:26,799
Speaker 14: the Bengals love their physical tools. He's got him in shage,

1631
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:28,200
Speaker 14: he just needs a little more coaching.

1632
01:30:28,439 --> 01:30:30,479
Speaker 2: I have asked this question to a number of people

1633
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:33,519
Speaker 2: over the last couple of weeks. Does the signing of

1634
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:36,960
Speaker 2: Brian Cook, the safety they took away from the Kansas

1635
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:40,519
Speaker 2: City Chiefs, does that preclude them from taking Caleb Downs?

1636
01:30:40,520 --> 01:30:43,200
Speaker 2: In your opinion with that number ten overall.

1637
01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:46,720
Speaker 14: Pinp No, I think nothing precludes almost any team from

1638
01:30:46,760 --> 01:30:48,920
Speaker 14: taking Caleb Downs. I think he has an argument as

1639
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:50,760
Speaker 14: the best foot pure football player.

1640
01:30:50,439 --> 01:30:51,040
Speaker 5: In this draft.

1641
01:30:51,120 --> 01:30:54,240
Speaker 14: If Caleb Downs is there at ten, I'm absolutely taking

1642
01:30:54,320 --> 01:30:56,320
Speaker 14: him over anybody or over any other option.

1643
01:30:56,439 --> 01:30:57,000
Speaker 5: He's the guy.

1644
01:30:57,320 --> 01:30:58,960
Speaker 14: I think he's one of the very few guys in

1645
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:01,080
Speaker 14: this draft, in a draft that's not considered to have

1646
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:03,800
Speaker 14: a ton of top end talent. He's one of the

1647
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:07,120
Speaker 14: guys who can again, change the complexion of your defense.

1648
01:31:07,160 --> 01:31:09,240
Speaker 14: I think he just played so many roles. We've seen

1649
01:31:09,280 --> 01:31:11,360
Speaker 14: it the last couple of years at Ohio State.

1650
01:31:11,400 --> 01:31:12,000
Speaker 11: We saw it as a.

1651
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:14,639
Speaker 5: True freshman in Alabama. He can play any role.

1652
01:31:14,680 --> 01:31:15,960
Speaker 14: And all of a sudden to me, if you have

1653
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:18,200
Speaker 14: Tailored Downs and Brian Cook back there, and Cook's a

1654
01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:20,360
Speaker 14: very underrated player. You guys know en Will as a

1655
01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:23,360
Speaker 14: former Bearcat, that would be one of the best pairs

1656
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:24,360
Speaker 14: of safeties in the league.

1657
01:31:24,360 --> 01:31:26,320
Speaker 5: And then Jordan Battle is kind of that third guy.

1658
01:31:26,520 --> 01:31:28,360
Speaker 14: I don't mind that at all because he can come

1659
01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:30,519
Speaker 14: in and Downs can play different roles down near the

1660
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:32,600
Speaker 14: line of scrimmage. If tail Downs is there at ten,

1661
01:31:32,680 --> 01:31:34,760
Speaker 14: they should run the cart in Okay.

1662
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:37,120
Speaker 2: Well chatting with Dalton Wasser been one of the finest

1663
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:40,479
Speaker 2: football writers in America, and we're talking about the needs

1664
01:31:40,479 --> 01:31:43,400
Speaker 2: the Bengals have post free agency. I'm sure there will

1665
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:45,840
Speaker 2: still be some free agent signings. It's just that this

1666
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:49,559
Speaker 2: first wave has come and gone. All Right, so you're

1667
01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:52,799
Speaker 2: the Bengals general manager. Let's just pretend at this point

1668
01:31:53,320 --> 01:31:56,120
Speaker 2: that right now you run that front office. Let's just

1669
01:31:56,160 --> 01:31:59,160
Speaker 2: pretend that you're the guy in charge. And I wonder

1670
01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:03,000
Speaker 2: what you would do with ten overall. It kind of

1671
01:32:03,320 --> 01:32:05,080
Speaker 2: gave us a hint there just a few minutes ago,

1672
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:08,120
Speaker 2: but ten overall visa VI, what you would do in

1673
01:32:08,160 --> 01:32:11,760
Speaker 2: the remaining days of free agency? What would you do

1674
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:14,800
Speaker 2: that at the end of April you would sit down

1675
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:17,720
Speaker 2: and take a deep breath and say, Duke Tobin could

1676
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:19,599
Speaker 2: not have done any better than what I did.

1677
01:32:21,400 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 14: I think definitely when you look at when you look

1678
01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:25,000
Speaker 14: at the draft, it's about get in the middle of

1679
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:28,680
Speaker 14: this defense, better detackle linebacker safety, like we mentioned, and

1680
01:32:28,920 --> 01:32:31,479
Speaker 14: at some point I also wouldn't mind maybe a little

1681
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:34,640
Speaker 14: bit of an improvement, either from a third wide receiver standpoint,

1682
01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:37,760
Speaker 14: somebody beyond Chase and Hagens who can make some plays, or.

1683
01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:38,680
Speaker 5: Even at tight end.

1684
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:40,519
Speaker 14: You know, I think the tight end position, for as

1685
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:44,240
Speaker 14: much as Mikeysicki is considered the start tight end on

1686
01:32:44,360 --> 01:32:47,160
Speaker 14: the seam, doesn't really play the position like a.

1687
01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:48,240
Speaker 5: Traditional tight end, right.

1688
01:32:48,280 --> 01:32:50,519
Speaker 14: He's kind of operated out in the slot now as

1689
01:32:50,560 --> 01:32:53,280
Speaker 14: the third receiver as well. So I wouldn't hate having

1690
01:32:53,320 --> 01:32:55,479
Speaker 14: one more weapon on offense, right. I mean, I love

1691
01:32:55,479 --> 01:32:58,240
Speaker 14: improving the defense, I love resigning Dalton Riser on the

1692
01:32:58,280 --> 01:33:01,000
Speaker 14: offensive line, But I think one weapon would just go

1693
01:33:01,080 --> 01:33:02,880
Speaker 14: a long way because we've seen it too many times

1694
01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:05,639
Speaker 14: where T Higgins misses a game here and there and

1695
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:08,000
Speaker 14: the offense kind of really sputters from there. It's not

1696
01:33:08,120 --> 01:33:10,920
Speaker 14: enough options. Jamar Chase is out with a hamstring or something.

1697
01:33:11,200 --> 01:33:13,519
Speaker 14: Just doesn't look the same on offense without both of

1698
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:15,720
Speaker 14: those guys out there, I wouldn't hate having one more

1699
01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:18,280
Speaker 14: weapon along with all the defensive improvement as well.

1700
01:33:18,479 --> 01:33:23,240
Speaker 2: Okay, So, in your estimation, can what ailed the Bengals

1701
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:26,800
Speaker 2: defensively last year? Can it be fixed in this offseason

1702
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:29,439
Speaker 2: knowing what they've done so far in free agency?

1703
01:33:30,880 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1704
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:33,240
Speaker 14: I still think so, And it just depends heavily on

1705
01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 14: what you do in this draft. This is a very

1706
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 14: good defensive, defensive leaning draft, right, I think the offensive

1707
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:42,880
Speaker 14: talent lags behind the defensive talent. There's some premier defensive talent,

1708
01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:45,400
Speaker 14: and you can go even to round three, four and five,

1709
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:47,800
Speaker 14: and there's good defensive players that you can build depth

1710
01:33:47,840 --> 01:33:51,360
Speaker 14: with at linebacker, at safety, even at corner, the defensive line.

1711
01:33:51,400 --> 01:33:54,439
Speaker 14: Really at all levels, it's a very good defensive draft.

1712
01:33:54,479 --> 01:33:56,240
Speaker 14: So if that's their focus and they really want to

1713
01:33:56,280 --> 01:33:58,639
Speaker 14: balance out this football team, they've got a really good

1714
01:33:58,680 --> 01:33:59,760
Speaker 14: opportunity to do so.

1715
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:03,000
Speaker 2: And you're adding a veteran linebacker. I'm not telling you

1716
01:34:03,000 --> 01:34:04,800
Speaker 2: what to do, I'm asking you what you would do.

1717
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:07,960
Speaker 2: But if you're adding a veteran linebacker, who would it

1718
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:09,160
Speaker 2: be at this point?

1719
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:11,800
Speaker 14: I mean, like we talked about before, the best one

1720
01:34:11,840 --> 01:34:14,000
Speaker 14: on the market is definitely Bobby Wagner. I mean you

1721
01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:16,639
Speaker 14: talked about Yes, he's at an advanced age one thirty six,

1722
01:34:16,760 --> 01:34:19,240
Speaker 14: thirty seven years old, but when you really look at

1723
01:34:19,240 --> 01:34:21,479
Speaker 14: his resume and what he can still do, especially in

1724
01:34:21,520 --> 01:34:23,800
Speaker 14: the run game where the Bengals have struggled for the

1725
01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:26,960
Speaker 14: last couple of years, that's really somebody who can change

1726
01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:28,800
Speaker 14: a look. And you mentioned it as far as being

1727
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:31,559
Speaker 14: a leader. The best leader by far left on the

1728
01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:33,640
Speaker 14: market here. Looking over some of these options, you know,

1729
01:34:33,680 --> 01:34:37,120
Speaker 14: Bobby o'caraka who was with the Giants last year, Elandon

1730
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:39,080
Speaker 14: Roberts who was with the Raiders. You know, some of

1731
01:34:39,160 --> 01:34:42,320
Speaker 14: these guys solid players and veteran players who've been around

1732
01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:44,120
Speaker 14: a long time. But to me, Bobby Wagner is by

1733
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:46,439
Speaker 14: far the best option out there. I would consider it on.

1734
01:34:46,400 --> 01:34:47,280
Speaker 5: A one year contract.

1735
01:34:47,479 --> 01:34:50,439
Speaker 2: All right, Well, we'll see Dalton what they do. It's

1736
01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:53,000
Speaker 2: of great interest obviously to the millions of fans that

1737
01:34:53,040 --> 01:34:55,000
Speaker 2: are here in the Tri Stata and around the world.

1738
01:34:55,400 --> 01:34:58,839
Speaker 2: They've had a decent start, it seems to have chugged

1739
01:34:58,840 --> 01:35:01,000
Speaker 2: to a little bit of a halt here, and of

1740
01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:04,040
Speaker 2: course the draft could change everything as well. But nevertheless,

1741
01:35:04,080 --> 01:35:07,320
Speaker 2: whatever they do, I know you will be chronicling it

1742
01:35:07,479 --> 01:35:11,400
Speaker 2: in great detail for one of the finest analytical websites

1743
01:35:11,439 --> 01:35:15,160
Speaker 2: that God ever created, Pro Footballfocused dot Com. Stay well, Dalton,

1744
01:35:15,200 --> 01:35:17,240
Speaker 2: you know we'll be in touch and until then, thank you.

1745
01:35:18,240 --> 01:35:20,360
Speaker 14: Of course, Ken appreciate you having me on it, though.

1746
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:24,240
Speaker 2: You're very kind to Yeah, they still need help in

1747
01:35:24,280 --> 01:35:28,519
Speaker 2: the defensive interior line. H DJ Reiders is still still

1748
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:33,920
Speaker 2: a name that's out there. And in addition to that,

1749
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:38,600
Speaker 2: I don't I don't think signing Cook precludes anything with

1750
01:35:38,800 --> 01:35:43,080
Speaker 2: Caleb Downs. I don't think that's that's an issue at all.

1751
01:35:43,160 --> 01:35:46,280
Speaker 2: I don't think that they'd be scared by Sonny Styles

1752
01:35:46,360 --> 01:35:49,960
Speaker 2: considering what happened with the two rookies last year. I

1753
01:35:50,040 --> 01:35:52,439
Speaker 2: just think it was a wrong combination. It was a

1754
01:35:52,439 --> 01:35:56,799
Speaker 2: wrong combination last year. I just don't know if Styles

1755
01:35:56,880 --> 01:35:58,400
Speaker 2: or Downs are going to be around when they pick

1756
01:35:58,439 --> 01:36:02,280
Speaker 2: a ten overall, and then they may not keep the pick.

1757
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:05,880
Speaker 2: They may decide, you know, you trade back, you get more.

1758
01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:11,280
Speaker 2: But it's clear that this problem that they had on

1759
01:36:11,360 --> 01:36:17,000
Speaker 2: defense the last several years, it's clear. It's very difficult

1760
01:36:17,080 --> 01:36:19,280
Speaker 2: to make up for all of those ills in one

1761
01:36:19,320 --> 01:36:22,720
Speaker 2: off season. It just is. But we'll see. There's a

1762
01:36:22,760 --> 01:36:25,160
Speaker 2: lot of time left between now and the draft, a

1763
01:36:25,200 --> 01:36:28,439
Speaker 2: lot of time left. It is eleven fifty three on

1764
01:36:28,479 --> 01:36:32,760
Speaker 2: this Sunday, Sunday before Opening Day, twenty twenty six, on

1765
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:35,640
Speaker 2: News Radio seven hundred WLW