Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American idio?
Speaker 2: Our Scott's flown back on seven hundred. WW got a
Speaker 2: busy day ahead, y'all. Coming up at ten o'clock or thereabouts,
Speaker 2: we'll have a press conference, live press conference, and it's
Speaker 2: going to be the lawyer for Police Chief Terry Thiji,
Speaker 2: who is on now paid administrative leave. And it feels
Speaker 2: like it sounds like it looks like she's getting fired,
Speaker 2: but that hasn't happened yet. This whole thing has been
Speaker 2: headled poorly from the jump, and I've not even talked
Speaker 2: about the issue of the violent crime in downtown Cincinnati.
Speaker 2: So we'll have that for you live at ten to six.
Speaker 2: More on this, we'll talk about more than about nine
Speaker 2: thirty five. But in the interim, we have a major
Speaker 2: security breach into our infrastructure by the Chinese, and you
Speaker 2: didn't hear about that because it's been overshadowed by yesterday's
Speaker 2: massive Amazon Web Services outage. If you use things like
Speaker 2: Alexa or Prime Video, or have blank security systems or coinbase,
Speaker 2: which is crypto government gateway services, Microsoft three sixty five,
Speaker 2: my Fitness, pell Peloton PlayStation Network, Snapchat, WhatsApp, squares, Zoom,
Speaker 2: and countless other platforms were down for the count for
Speaker 2: a good part yesterday, frustrating a lot of people joining
Speaker 2: the show to talk about this and much more is
Speaker 2: Chris Naiheisi is the CEO at Cincinnati based Vigilant Cybersecurity. Chris,
Speaker 2: Welcome back.
Speaker 3: Good morning, Scott.
Speaker 1: It's great to be back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it seems like there's always a crisis. We
Speaker 2: could have you on probably every day talking about this stuff.
Speaker 2: I've mentioned how the security breach, the security breach of
Speaker 2: that five was kind of overshadowed by AWS, and I
Speaker 2: guess that makes sense because you know, unless it directly
Speaker 2: affects you, you don't pay attention. Thing was that that
Speaker 2: AWS affects so many more people simply because when that's down.
Speaker 2: I just mentioned it, and that's just tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 2: That's some of the platforms. There's there's countless others around
Speaker 2: the world that were down because of this. In pretty
Speaker 2: much every institution from finance to a retail, you name.
Speaker 2: It was completely shut down for the better Party yesterday,
Speaker 2: illustrating what the real problem is with Amazon, which is what.
Speaker 3: They're centrally located.
Speaker 4: You know, the big issue with a lot of these
Speaker 4: technologies like crowd Offerings AWS. They've made it so easy
Speaker 4: for organizations to put their technology up there. But the
Speaker 4: problem is, and the thing that a lot of companies
Speaker 4: forgot about or we're chose to not maybe pay attention to,
Speaker 4: is that when you put it into these central locations,
Speaker 4: if that central location goes down, well then now everything
Speaker 4: you do goes down. And what was really interesting in
Speaker 4: scott Is yesterday, and I do quite often when things
Speaker 4: like this happened. I go out to this site called
Speaker 4: down detector dot com and it tells you, like everything
Speaker 4: you know. These people will call in the report things
Speaker 4: are down, so it'll tell you what's down across the world.
Speaker 4: And you can tell exactly what companies use Amazon and we'll.
Speaker 3: Talk about that here in a second why that can help.
Speaker 4: An attacker, but you can see exactly what company used
Speaker 4: it because they all went down at the same time. Now,
Speaker 4: I'll tell you this has happened globally two times before
Speaker 4: last year CrowdStrike, and this has happened to AWS.
Speaker 3: Before as well.
Speaker 4: The data that Russia attacks Ukraine so very interesting time
Speaker 4: and you and I talked about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in fact that we will and we still don't
Speaker 2: I don't. We don't know what drove yesterday's out.
Speaker 5: We don't know, we don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Amazon has said that, uh that basically
Speaker 4: it was a DNS problem, which is the exact same
Speaker 4: thing that was years.
Speaker 3: Ago, and just everyone knows what DNS does is you know, it's.
Speaker 4: Really hard to remember a long IP address, you know,
Speaker 4: like one nine two, one six, eight at five ten
Speaker 4: or whatever, and so so we don't remember that Google's
Speaker 4: addresses is.
Speaker 3: You know eight at eight eight that eight.
Speaker 4: We put names to these because it's easier for humans
Speaker 4: to remember names. So we say Google dot com, where
Speaker 4: there's a translation service at the Internet existed since since
Speaker 4: you know, networking started. But basically you type in Google,
Speaker 4: it converts it to that iPad dress and goes up.
Speaker 4: You can't get to websites without DNS. And if DNS
Speaker 4: is down, that's a big problem. It is the single
Speaker 4: most thing that can I mean, none of the networking
Speaker 4: broke yesterday, None of the ISP's broke.
Speaker 5: You said Internet connection.
Speaker 3: It was the major translation system. So if you had
Speaker 3: typed in.
Speaker 4: The IP address, if you knew it, you could have
Speaker 4: gotten to the website you're trying to go to but
Speaker 4: because of automation, all these technologies like ring or whatever,
Speaker 4: DNS can change so often, and so they just automated.
Speaker 4: So when that system's down, it's it's the thing that
Speaker 4: can take everything down. It's the simplest thing to take
Speaker 4: down the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the way you described is if you're older, remember
Speaker 2: the old Dewey decimal system.
Speaker 5: It's like the inverse of that.
Speaker 2: Basically, it's like I said, if I remember those numbers,
Speaker 2: like oh yeah, here's the name of the book. Well,
Speaker 2: the Dewey decimal system, we'll get you the book and
Speaker 2: the title that you're looking for. Don't have to worry
Speaker 2: about that as much anymore. And the other thing too,
Speaker 2: is you know, the idea is that the cloud. Basically
Speaker 2: the cloud is hey listen, you don't have to host
Speaker 2: your own service anymore. You don't have to have a
Speaker 2: room full of a rack room with all this equipment
Speaker 2: and have it people running around all the time. You
Speaker 2: just upload the stuff with the cloud and Amazon will
Speaker 2: take care of it and you just you can outsource it. Right,
Speaker 2: So we love outsourcing. The problem though, is that and
Speaker 2: correct mever wrong. I think there's two regions here. So
Speaker 2: you have the US East one region, which is in Virginia,
Speaker 2: which is where the problem is.
Speaker 5: We have US East two, which is actually in Ohio.
Speaker 2: And so one of the ideas, Hey, one of the
Speaker 2: regions goes down, you've got other backups and overlaps. But
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, if it's the whole process of the
Speaker 2: Dewey decimal system called DNS, then you can't access data
Speaker 2: no matter where it is. That's the joy that that
Speaker 2: undermines their argument that, hey, don't worry if they go down.
Speaker 5: Here, we've got backups. There's redundancy. Well, there's no redundancy with.
Speaker 4: This right, right, But it's interesting too, there's thinking about
Speaker 4: it this way from a security standpoint. It's just from
Speaker 4: national security aspect. When DNUS is down, everybody's firewall that's
Speaker 4: configured to get updates through DNAs.
Speaker 3: Stops getting updates. Right.
Speaker 4: People writing code that use things like githup right where
Speaker 4: they store the code, they can't update code. Uh when
Speaker 4: you know yesterday, uh, you know email communication systems to
Speaker 4: tell people things are down, we're down, and so you know,
Speaker 4: think about all the ways we communicate, all the services
Speaker 4: we communicate emergency services. Your ring cameras were down, right,
Speaker 4: So what's a great time for someone breaking your home
Speaker 4: yesterday during that outage, you know, so you know what's it.
Speaker 4: But also on top of that, not even just the
Speaker 4: security side of things is you know people couldn't buy
Speaker 4: and sell things. They couldn't you know, so many businesses
Speaker 4: lost tons of money yesterday because they lost consumers purchasing.
Speaker 3: Things from them. It's just a cascading effect.
Speaker 4: And you know, when you think about US East and
Speaker 4: US One, the way this works is you actually have
Speaker 4: to put your technology in bolt. Well, it costs you
Speaker 4: more money to do that, and so not every company
Speaker 4: does that either, even though it's available. But even in
Speaker 4: that case, you know, DNS being down, you know what
Speaker 4: affected h most of most of any any of that
Speaker 4: as well. And you know there are multiple different ways
Speaker 4: to connect to DNS because there's all these companies that
Speaker 4: use it, but a lot of companies use AWS because
Speaker 4: it's easy and you know, it's it's just it's just
Speaker 4: grown to be something that's just pretty well known.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we know why to you know, the dependence
Speaker 2: in the cloud as opposed to having a local drive
Speaker 2: do this, there's a lesson there and the you know,
Speaker 2: everything works until it doesn't.
Speaker 5: I guess it's the mantra here too.
Speaker 2: Uh And i'd been miss I didn't mention to like
Speaker 2: literally hours before this day before this, there was something
Speaker 2: called the F five bridge. F five is a it's
Speaker 2: a it's a major US company basically that it How
Speaker 2: do I want to describe F five? It's not much
Speaker 2: like AWS is pretty much everywhere. F five is a
Speaker 2: huge cybersecurity matter. I think nine to ten fortune five
Speaker 2: hundreds to use them at banking, tech, medical, government, all
Speaker 2: that stuff, right, and they were breached by the Chinese.
Speaker 2: So to kind of bridge the discussion from Amazon to this,
Speaker 2: do you think these two are related?
Speaker 4: Uh? You know, personally, I think the timing is really interesting.
Speaker 4: And when you see a lot of these big things
Speaker 4: happen colonial pipeline, uh, you know this, you know you
Speaker 4: have to start to look at this from a from
Speaker 4: a warfare standpoint. And I would say most of most
Speaker 4: of a lot of attacks, even though they're ransom are
Speaker 4: attacks bes like that. The last week, ransomware in hospitals,
Speaker 4: things like that. I think all of that's either positioning
Speaker 4: or testing and and and in this case, it's it's
Speaker 4: highly possible that both of them are related.
Speaker 5: I think it's too early for Amazon.
Speaker 4: To know that. I think that for them to say
Speaker 4: that publicly, uh was you know, I don't, But again
Speaker 4: I don't know what investigations they've done internally. But that
Speaker 4: happened really fast, and so if I were them, I
Speaker 4: would have waited, you know, just to come out and
Speaker 4: say something. But even if it was, it probably won't
Speaker 4: come out to the public, just as a hysteria and
Speaker 4: things like that. Now, the way the way F five works,
Speaker 4: where where DNS gets you to the website you're going to.
Speaker 4: What what happens is when you have a popular website
Speaker 4: or you're a company that does a lot of business,
Speaker 4: you have to have a ton of servers on the
Speaker 4: back end that serve your customers.
Speaker 3: And so what F five does is.
Speaker 4: It just in front of those so when you go
Speaker 4: to it, it distributes the load across all of these
Speaker 4: servers you have on the back end to support all
Speaker 4: of the transactions.
Speaker 3: You might take.
Speaker 4: So that's why banks use them, why hospitals use them,
Speaker 4: it's why big massive organizations use them because it helps
Speaker 4: route the traffic. Son't once gets you to F five, right,
Speaker 4: then it distributes the work.
Speaker 3: So you kind of see I'm going here right, So
Speaker 3: but yeah.
Speaker 4: So that's that's that's what happened there. So when when
Speaker 4: you think about F five, what F five has is
Speaker 4: they have all of the configurations for every one of
Speaker 4: these companies.
Speaker 3: That they work with.
Speaker 4: They have all, like of the user access information, they
Speaker 4: have all of the code for how their systems work.
Speaker 4: So when an attacker, what they stole was they stole
Speaker 4: all of their source code, They stole all of their
Speaker 4: you know or not all, but a lot of their
Speaker 4: customer configurations. They stole the access to those systems. So
Speaker 4: now not only do they know where to go, they
Speaker 4: know how to get there, they know how to get
Speaker 4: in and they know everything about the company's environment once
Speaker 4: they get there.
Speaker 5: Who's the they?
Speaker 4: So the they in this case for five is China, right,
Speaker 4: China packed them in twenty twenty three. And that's the
Speaker 4: earliest we know, right from what's been released. Sometimes that's longer.
Speaker 4: Sometimes companies don't.
Speaker 5: Even know because I'll.
Speaker 4: Say that most companies either they don't have the ability
Speaker 4: to forensically even go back that far, and so it's
Speaker 4: really difficult.
Speaker 3: For most companies to prove whether or not a.
Speaker 4: Hack happened, and even when it happened, so they could
Speaker 4: have been there much longer.
Speaker 3: But the day in this case.
Speaker 4: Is chying to the And I would say that it's
Speaker 4: our adversaries, you know, because it's China doesn't just operate
Speaker 4: completely alone. They work with other countries and things like that.
Speaker 4: You know that our adversaries against us.
Speaker 2: Right, And we just had the story of Hearine just
Speaker 2: last week and talking about China and how they've infiltrated
Speaker 2: infrastructure here in America in two hundred as far as
Speaker 2: we know, but probably multiply that by ten or one hundred,
Speaker 2: where they've gotten into water filtration systems. Some small town
Speaker 2: in Massachusetts, I believe. Sixty Minutes had a great story
Speaker 2: on this and how they got in. They like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we saw them, they were operating, The government was watching
Speaker 2: them to see what they were going to do. But
Speaker 2: they could totally take control of a city's infrastructure. And
Speaker 2: that's that's replicated across America.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 2: The Chinese are breaking and basically the biggest, one of
Speaker 2: the biggest cybersecurity vetdors in that five in their platform
Speaker 2: that runs nine and ten fortune five hundred companies. They
Speaker 2: have basically the blueprints on how things work for.
Speaker 4: Nine of Fortune five hundred companies and and and in
Speaker 4: a significant amount of others too. Yeah, you know, we're
Speaker 4: my team right now is out in California because we
Speaker 4: meet uh this conference with a bunch of municipalities out
Speaker 4: there to face all the unipolities and California come together
Speaker 4: once a year we go go to that conference. One
Speaker 4: of the things that's interesting because our team is asking them,
Speaker 4: We're like, hey, you know, do you you know, do
Speaker 4: you use that five et cetera, et cetera now? And
Speaker 4: a lot of them do, so, you know, the you know,
Speaker 4: that's the thing is when a technology becomes efficient or
Speaker 4: becomes you know, effective within an organization, people will go
Speaker 4: buy it and they put it in. And that's not
Speaker 4: a bad thing because you know, a company should be
Speaker 4: rewarded for effectiveness. However, the thing you have to realize
Speaker 4: is that you know, when you're when putting things in,
Speaker 4: you have to go a bit further to to lock
Speaker 4: them down.
Speaker 3: And when you know, we talked.
Speaker 4: About week two hundred you know, cities around the country
Speaker 4: and that's just that's that's a very very low number.
Speaker 4: Scott just from our experience have embedded threat actors in
Speaker 4: their environment, and then you tie that into things like
Speaker 4: you know, systems like this where back in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 4: So I think it's no doubt that you know, companies
Speaker 4: that use F five, you know, have probably been infiltrated
Speaker 4: from them from that time and they don't know, you know,
Speaker 4: because you know, and I were talking about this theory.
Speaker 4: I think, look bit but like I've been saying, you know,
Speaker 4: the saying on a few of these is that the
Speaker 4: cyber industry has been diluted over time in from a technology.
Speaker 3: Standpoint, because of the way that.
Speaker 4: Cyber companies grow. Right, a lot of private equity comes in,
Speaker 4: a lot of different investments come in, and a lot
Speaker 4: of times that can dilute the technology because there's a
Speaker 4: balance in an organization like that where you have to
Speaker 4: balance between shareholder value.
Speaker 1: And client value.
Speaker 4: The other thing that's happened too is that you know,
Speaker 4: companies do not have a good barometer on how to
Speaker 4: choose cyber technology. So like, for instance, HB ninety six,
Speaker 4: you're in the state of Ohio, mad rush every municipality
Speaker 4: here in the state of Ohio, mad rush to get
Speaker 4: cyberant in put in place. Now, I believe the bill
Speaker 4: was awesome. I think it's one of the best cyber
Speaker 4: bills in the country right now. However, the timeline is
Speaker 4: horrible because now what's happening is all these cities are
Speaker 4: rushing out to get compliance because they have to, and
Speaker 4: now they're going to put in things that they may
Speaker 4: or may not know are effective. And a lot of
Speaker 4: these organizations actually don't.
Speaker 3: Know how to that whether or not tech is good.
Speaker 4: Or not in the cyber world, because we have things
Speaker 4: like you know, and I don't say their names, but
Speaker 4: we have organization out there that a lot of companies
Speaker 4: go to to say, well, how is this rated? Well,
Speaker 4: most of those plans, most of those rating systems are
Speaker 4: all paid.
Speaker 3: To play, so cyber vendors can come in, pay a lot.
Speaker 4: Of money and get put into a position of priority
Speaker 4: in the marketplace.
Speaker 6: So the way the.
Speaker 2: System is set up, it seems like this it's not
Speaker 2: going to take much of this house of cards to
Speaker 2: follow me. I'm not surprised to wake up one day
Speaker 2: and nothing works, because you know, the Chinese said, okay,
Speaker 2: we have enough to shut your commerce down and hold
Speaker 2: you hostage. I mean, imagine holding the United States of
Speaker 2: America essentially hostage and what is the rest of the
Speaker 2: one power is going to do. They're going to sit
Speaker 2: back and just look at us and go yeah, So
Speaker 2: we don't care. It's a frightening future and it's sadly
Speaker 2: we don't learn anything until we have a digital nine
Speaker 2: to eleven, and that does coming. We've talked about that, right,
Speaker 2: Chris Nihi, CEO Vigilant Cybersecurity. Now, of the origins, we
Speaker 2: still know the Amazon web server crash yesterday, and we
Speaker 2: do know that one of the biggest play form cybersecurity
Speaker 2: vendors in F five and what they produce, was hacked
Speaker 2: by the Chinese. And we'll see if those two things
Speaker 2: fit together. Frightening times. Indeed, Chris, all the best, thanks
Speaker 2: are jumping in this morning.
Speaker 3: Oh Scott, great talking.
Speaker 2: Take care. We've got a news update in about four
Speaker 2: or five minutes here. When we continue, we'll start to
Speaker 2: get into the Terry Fiji suspension slash dismissal, slash firing,
Speaker 2: slash dog and pony show that's about to happen at
Speaker 2: what ten o'clock today when her attorney, Terry Thigi's attorney speaks,
Speaker 2: we'll have that live for you and then reaction following
Speaker 2: here on seven hundred WLW consequential Tuesday morning. Scott Sloan
Speaker 2: here seven hundred WLW. Gotch You're covered and control. If
Speaker 2: you're out and about today, take us with you via
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app because we will have breaking new sometime
Speaker 2: at ten o'clock or thereabouts.
Speaker 5: There's about to be a press conference on the.
Speaker 2: Heels of police Chief Terry Fiji being placed on administrative leave.
Speaker 2: City Manager Cheryl Long tells us to leave is pending
Speaker 2: an internal investigation and the effectiveness of our leadership in
Speaker 2: the Cincinnati to Police department, which is interesting because it
Speaker 2: was just what about three or four weeks ago that
Speaker 2: mayor aft had Puerval said, crime is down.
Speaker 5: It's fine, crime is down, We're doing good. Things are good.
Speaker 2: Now there's some areas, central business districts and others where
Speaker 2: the crime is up and personal property crimes like car breaking. Said,
Speaker 2: that's up, but crime is down. So weeks later we
Speaker 2: get the dismissal presumably of Chief Theritary Thesi, which this
Speaker 2: is going to be a great topic tomorrow morning at
Speaker 2: ten thirty with Julie Bouki, our career Shirpoo and just
Speaker 2: how poorly handled this dismissal was and I say dismissal
Speaker 2: because I don't know what to make of this. We
Speaker 2: don't know what's going to happen. At ten o'clock. The
Speaker 2: attorney for Terry Thigi, Steve m who's been on the
Speaker 2: show before Front of the show, an employment attorney with
Speaker 2: Finny Law Firm, and Cincinnati's going to address this at
Speaker 2: ten o'clock. And I could only imagine he's going to
Speaker 2: say that she did everything that was asked of the
Speaker 2: city as he publicly negotiates the terms of her surrender,
Speaker 2: and the terms of her surrender are going to be
Speaker 2: extremely generous, meaning that you, the city tax paper are
Speaker 2: going to foot the bill to make Terry Thiji go away.
Speaker 2: And it's going to cost a lot of money, money
Speaker 2: that could be better spent on, oh, I don't know,
Speaker 2: addressing crime problems or.
Speaker 5: Potholes or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2: But that is your guy, have tab at work, going
Speaker 2: to spend a lot more of your money to covers butt.
Speaker 2: So we'll see what is said in just about twenty
Speaker 2: two minutes or thereabouts. Anyway, as soon as they break
Speaker 2: in with that, we'll have it for you here on
Speaker 2: News Radio seven hundred WLW. So let's lead up to
Speaker 2: that somewhat here in how things got to be and
Speaker 2: the final straw for Terry Thiji, I guess was the
Speaker 2: Fountain Square shootings, because Pierval I think was out of
Speaker 2: adjectives at this point. Every time we had a violent
Speaker 2: crime that made headlines, there was another adjective used and
Speaker 2: finally said that's enough. This is intolerable, I think is
Speaker 2: the latest one he used and said significant changes are coming.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 2: That was last week and here we are with the
Speaker 2: paid administry to leave, the suspension of the chief and
Speaker 2: an interim chief appointed. Terry Thiji told cops at that
Speaker 2: time that we're going to make contact with people for
Speaker 2: the most minor offenses and the SWAT and civil determined
Speaker 2: team are going to be it's going to look pretty militaristic.
Speaker 2: Militaristic on Thursday and Thursday on football, which, by the way,
Speaker 2: did that stop the crime? Maybe on Fountain Square, but
Speaker 2: just a few blocks away literally at the end between
Speaker 2: Tavern gunshots rang out where he had an individual shot
Speaker 2: to death in his car and his BMW at the
Speaker 2: hands of a guy who well shouldn't had a gun
Speaker 2: in the first place. We'll get into the more a
Speaker 2: little bit later on. Terry Fiji came into the department
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two with the retirement of then Chief
Speaker 2: Elliott Isaac. She was an executive assistant chief at the time,
Speaker 2: the first woman to lead the department. In the interim,
Speaker 2: she spent thirty now, I believe doing math in my
Speaker 2: head here about thirty five years on the job. I
Speaker 2: want to say thereabouts all in a Western High school's
Speaker 2: Western Hills High School graduate, married forty years, proud Westsider.
Speaker 2: And I found it interesting because when she took office
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two, just three short years ago, she said, quote,
Speaker 2: I am dedicated to ensuring CPD is as inclusive as
Speaker 2: possible and will continue being committed to doing the work
Speaker 2: of the collaborative Agreement. To that point, Iris Rawley with
Speaker 2: the Cincinnati Black United Front actually interviewed all four candidates.
Speaker 2: I was sending the interview press of all four candidates
Speaker 2: with the goal of advancing the collaborative agreement. That is,
Speaker 2: the optics, that is, the circumstances, surroundings and conditions in
Speaker 2: which Terry Thiji moved from executive assistant chief to the
Speaker 2: full time job to the main job being the main
Speaker 2: woman in this case under the guide that well she's
Speaker 2: a female that checked the box. Which also make it
Speaker 2: interesting aside, is what's the if they replaced Terry Thiji
Speaker 2: with a white dude. That doesn't look good when it
Speaker 2: comes to diversity, it right, because a lot of the
Speaker 2: times when you know, when Chief Elliott Isaac left or
Speaker 2: when a previous chiefs left, is like, well, you know,
Speaker 2: you can't replace a black guy with a white guy,
Speaker 2: or you can in this case probably well a woman
Speaker 2: with a guy.
Speaker 5: I just it's it doesn't look good.
Speaker 2: And so it's interesting how all of the you know,
Speaker 2: the diversity and the DEI and all that stuff goes
Speaker 2: out the window when bullets are flying around and you
Speaker 2: have a you know, and it's threatening your occupation as
Speaker 2: a professional politician like Aftad pier Vall into a degree
Speaker 2: shir along.
Speaker 5: Very interesting.
Speaker 2: So we'll see if the first woman hired a Cincinnati
Speaker 2: police chief, if they replace her with another woman because
Speaker 2: of well, you know, DEI and I may you know,
Speaker 2: it could be a black man, black woman woman. Man,
Speaker 2: I don't care. Just hire someone who's competent. Be course,
Speaker 2: the problem is the fact that they're hamsterring by the
Speaker 2: mayor's office, something that people voted for back in two
Speaker 2: thousand and one with Issue five that said you know
Speaker 2: longer no, you know. Basically, the FOP has no say
Speaker 2: we're going to go outside of Cincinnati, hire the best candidate. Well,
Speaker 2: you one of the guys, the best candidate. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of ifs in there. There's a lot of qualifiers,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of ISM's in there, you know, sexism, racism,
Speaker 2: et cetera. Instead of finding the best person, we have
Speaker 2: to find a person who looks diverse. So to check
Speaker 2: the diversity bocs first. I'm not saying certainly, diversity I
Speaker 2: think is a good thing, but it has to be natural,
Speaker 2: has to be organic. And also what about hiring the
Speaker 2: best person for the job and then letting them do
Speaker 2: what they do. I think that's the problem here because
Speaker 2: it's pretty clear regardless that she's a woman, or she's
Speaker 2: a white woman or a black woman, it doesn't been
Speaker 2: disabled it I don't care. Just find someone who's competent
Speaker 2: and let them do the job. We don't have that
Speaker 2: because they Issue five and can control the mayor's office.
Speaker 2: So when she comes to office and the first thing
Speaker 2: she says three years ago, is is it about you know?
Speaker 2: Is it about juvenile crime? It's about bad guys, it's
Speaker 2: about guns on the streets, it's about public Sif no,
Speaker 2: it's about being inclusive and working in the confides of
Speaker 2: collaborative agreement that led to where we are now three
Speaker 2: years later. Just pointing that out. How is that on
Speaker 2: Terry Thiji? I don't see it because she is just
Speaker 2: simply playing by the boy. If you want the job
Speaker 2: and the title of police chief and everything that goes
Speaker 2: along with that, the heartaches, the headaches, but also the
Speaker 2: compensation and the notoriety because you're going to go and
Speaker 2: make a lot more money as a consultant probably there
Speaker 2: as a police chief. But nonetheless, if that's the rules
Speaker 2: of the game and engagement, you want that job, and
Speaker 2: who wouldn't want that job, then you're going to do
Speaker 2: and say, enact and dance the song the piper's calling,
Speaker 2: and the piper is the mayor. I think we got
Speaker 2: to get I think we made a mistake in two
Speaker 2: thousand and one when voters said, hey, yeah, that's what
Speaker 2: we want. I think what you need to do you
Speaker 2: need to have somebody in there who's going to be
Speaker 2: a good cop there, not punitive, enforce the laws, take
Speaker 2: the bad guys off the street, put them away, work
Speaker 2: with the prosecutor's office, do all that stuff, be accountable,
Speaker 2: but also be a cop. And we've got, unfortunately, people
Speaker 2: who are theatrical I think in a way if you
Speaker 2: want to put it that way, because I think there's
Speaker 2: a lot of theatrics with what's going on here too.
Speaker 2: But you know, just again, you're hired. Your job is
Speaker 2: to enforce the laws and make sure that the bad
Speaker 2: guys are segregated from the good guys. There's very very few,
Speaker 2: really really bad people out there. We need to make
Speaker 2: sure they don't socialize with the rest of us. That's
Speaker 2: all this is. But when you put all these other
Speaker 2: artificial whims in there, it doesn't help. So Terry Thiji
Speaker 2: just last year she was remember when she showed up
Speaker 2: to the school board meeting to do a I think
Speaker 2: it was a prevent youth violence thing. She went at
Speaker 2: metro stations. Look, we had thirty arrests last year. I
Speaker 2: think during the month of August. I think right before
Speaker 2: school there was a bunch of arrests because kids are
Speaker 2: hanging around the metro station again and government square causing problems,
Speaker 2: and of course that's because the juvenile justice system is broken.
Speaker 2: It's a way too lenient, and police round them up
Speaker 2: and then the judges don't put the fear of God
Speaker 2: into them to make them do it again, and they
Speaker 2: send them off with a slap on the wrist and
Speaker 2: they go out and they do far worse stuff. And
Speaker 2: so cops on the street are undermined. I don't know
Speaker 2: how that is on the chief of police. This summer,
Speaker 2: we had multiple shootings. Fourth of July weekend was not
Speaker 2: a good one. We had three at the banks and
Speaker 2: Smellburn Front Park. We had a fourteen year old killed.
Speaker 2: We had the street takeover in Clifton, which Steve Gooden
Speaker 2: talks about because cops and our fire couldn't go on runs.
Speaker 2: They're delayed, and we had two cops the target of
Speaker 2: gunfire in Clifton. And that's when the chief yelled at
Speaker 2: the media about they need to be more honest and transparent.
Speaker 2: That was the whole you know what crime is down? Well,
Speaker 2: now the chiefs yell at the media about being more
Speaker 2: honest about things, and now where's is amisty there? So
Speaker 2: I saw that when we heard they're yelling at the
Speaker 2: media about being more transparent, more honest about reporting. She's
Speaker 2: just covering for the mayor. So she was again dancing
Speaker 2: the dance. Mayor's playing the tune. Just tell people the
Speaker 2: crime is fine, there's not a crime problem.
Speaker 5: We're good.
Speaker 2: The numbers don't back that up. Well, when you sit
Speaker 2: there and luxury people and say you need to learn
Speaker 2: how to behave in your city, and you become a meme,
Speaker 2: you know, the police chief, Mama mem I think you
Speaker 2: kind of lose your your juice there, and that's what
Speaker 2: happened with Terry Thigi. Yeah, look overall, how much is
Speaker 2: this on her? I don't know very little about I
Speaker 2: would say, now, talk to your average beat cop. I
Speaker 2: know that there are a lot of cops aren't happy
Speaker 2: with Terry Thigi. But again, this is someone who is
Speaker 2: hired by an administration to carry out the diversity, equity
Speaker 2: and inclusivity. And she said that when she was hired
Speaker 2: because that was hitting her head by after pival by,
Speaker 2: sheer long By, Iris Rawley and all the others getting
Speaker 2: in her ear like this isn't about policing, this is
Speaker 2: about diversity and how could that possibly surprise you that
Speaker 2: we are where we are three years, three short years later.
Speaker 2: And the person who said, okay, these are the terms
Speaker 2: of the condition to my oppoinment.
Speaker 5: Great.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know about you. You show up
Speaker 2: to work, your boss tells you to do something. Here's
Speaker 2: the job, here's going I hire you to do, and
Speaker 2: these are the the parameters of your job. Generally, most
Speaker 2: sane people go, okay, I'll do what they ask I
Speaker 2: will do my job. When the parameters established by the man,
Speaker 2: no one's going to go. Very few people are going
Speaker 2: to go, I'm gonna do my own I'm gonna go
Speaker 2: rogue here. That's not gonna be good for your longevity
Speaker 2: that company. I'd imagine the same is true of the
Speaker 2: police chief. But just let's look at the construct in
Speaker 2: which she came into office and what she was guided by.
Speaker 5: Initially, and this was not long ago. We had the
Speaker 5: Cincinnati crime Plan. Remember this.
Speaker 2: They kind of downplayed this one when we had a
Speaker 2: you know, the idea is we've got too many kids
Speaker 2: getting guns. And the end result after this is we
Speaker 2: have now more kids getting guns. So how did this work?
Speaker 2: We downplayed the Cincinnati because they want to do diversion
Speaker 2: instead of a youth gun possession cases instead of formal prosecution,
Speaker 2: especially for first time offenders. And we're going to limit
Speaker 2: the detention for youth charged with gun possession and eliminate
Speaker 2: the transfers. We're not going to kick them up to
Speaker 2: adult court anymore. And we need more community based violence
Speaker 2: interruption programs. How is that working? Where's all that money going?
Speaker 2: Safe to say, I think a lot of it going
Speaker 2: to the pockets of people who don't really have a plan,
Speaker 2: but they got their hand out. And there's a lot
Speaker 2: of government every time we pass something, you know, the
Speaker 2: four and a half million dollars we give the cops.
Speaker 2: You start look in the details of that and I
Speaker 2: haven't had time or the inclination to do it, but
Speaker 2: you start looking at that, it go wow, Look at
Speaker 2: up the programs. Look at my handouts in this community,
Speaker 2: this community Membrogans and somebody is getting this and we've
Speaker 2: got this program and there's no accountability for any of
Speaker 2: this stuff. It's just paying people off to go along
Speaker 2: with the plan. But the plan doesn't work. Now in retrospect,
Speaker 2: are the summer offering diversion and limiting youth detention and
Speaker 2: all that stuff.
Speaker 5: The optics of this aren't very good. You know, when
Speaker 5: Terry E.
Speaker 2: Thigi comes into office and she says in her press conference,
Speaker 2: and this is about continuing diversity, equity, inclusion, this is
Speaker 2: about the collaborative agreement. And she's looking at Iris Rawley,
Speaker 2: and she's looking at your along and she's looking at
Speaker 2: them and all these things, and then you know you're
Speaker 2: a few three years later we have the literally the
Speaker 2: wheel swallow off the cart. What happened all those programs
Speaker 2: one of those grand ideas well, if those of the
Speaker 2: those are the conditions in which you were taught by
Speaker 2: the people who are holding the carrot out that is
Speaker 2: the job, then you're gonna do everything to get that carrot.
Speaker 2: I don't see how any of this is on Terry Thiji.
Speaker 2: What was the response from the city when we started
Speaker 2: having a lot more of this crime? This is way,
Speaker 2: but this is before Patrick Herringer got shot and everything
Speaker 2: the city spent. I think I had Crammer doing on talking
Speaker 2: about this two hundred thousand dollars to keep the red
Speaker 2: bike program in Cincinnati going, and we spent like two
Speaker 2: million dollars over the years on the red bikes. So
Speaker 2: Cheryl Long comes out and says, well, we know that
Speaker 2: the bikes and the scooters are being used as tools
Speaker 2: to commit property crimes and steal guns and help criminals
Speaker 2: of aid cops. And so what we're gonna do now
Speaker 2: is we're gonna shut down the red bikes. What Then
Speaker 2: they doubled down and went, Okay, Hamila County Probation Department,
Speaker 2: here's what we're gonna do. We're coming up with a
Speaker 2: new model here because we got to do something serious.
Speaker 2: We're gonna take thirty probation field officers and cut that
Speaker 2: down to six. So we've got six probation officers doing
Speaker 2: home visits for thirty eight hundred convicted felons. That's one
Speaker 2: for over six hundred and thirtyth offenders, one for six hundred.
Speaker 2: Because we're going to centralize our parole department instead of
Speaker 2: having substations.
Speaker 5: Does that make any sense?
Speaker 2: Then Patrick Harringer's murder comes along. Mordecai Black murder, aggravated
Speaker 2: burglary kills the skuy stabs him in the neck inside
Speaker 2: his home on East mcmick and his wife, his poor
Speaker 2: wife standing right there. A tragedy made worse by the
Speaker 2: fact shouldn't have never been out of jail. And the
Speaker 2: indifference of city leaders is the worst part about that.
Speaker 2: We had two cops on patrol that night in all
Speaker 2: of OTR and a guy is walking around with the
Speaker 2: machete and nobody saw him because we're one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty cops short. How is that on Terry Fiji. Terry
Speaker 2: Thiji would have fifteen hundred cops who were up to
Speaker 2: her like I want more cops on the job, not fewer.
Speaker 2: And Mordecai Black's jacket he had thirty four cases about
Speaker 2: four pages of crime on this pos over the last
Speaker 2: twenty years. And then to add insult to injury. And
Speaker 2: then something no one can explain to this date is
Speaker 2: why she was handcuffed and held for eight hours before
Speaker 2: released when her husband was murdered right in front of her.
Speaker 2: I get that initially it's always the person around closest
Speaker 2: to you who is usually responsible. But it was pretty
Speaker 2: clear I think it did it take eight hours to
Speaker 2: figure that out?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 2: And the reaction from map to a pure of all
Speaker 2: forty eight hours after his murder on x he posts
Speaker 2: not about the murder, not about this is not acceptable,
Speaker 2: not talked about opening cutting the ribbon on Logan Commons,
Speaker 2: which is forty two new affordable homes for residents right
Speaker 2: next to Findley Market. Literally stepped away from her. Patrick
Speaker 2: Herringer was bludgeoned to death, killed murdered in his throat
Speaker 2: slit with a machete by Mordecai Black.
Speaker 5: Talk about tone death.
Speaker 2: We had a guy leaving an FC game and that
Speaker 2: story was tamped down by the city because they're worried
Speaker 2: about scaring people away from going to f Sea games.
Speaker 2: This guy cares about getting re elected. He cares about
Speaker 2: sun dance, he cares about pride, He cares about blaming
Speaker 2: the white guy for the rye, which I haven't even
Speaker 2: gotten to yet, and all that stuff. This guy has
Speaker 2: absolutely no sense about what it is what you need
Speaker 2: to do to make sure we have law and order.
Speaker 2: It's not as vocabular because everything that he subscribes ascribes
Speaker 2: to I think has been turned upside down. All his
Speaker 2: theories and beliefs about how to run a police department
Speaker 2: has been blown up because criminals take advantage of that naivete.
Speaker 2: You know, a job as a kid, if you're a
Speaker 2: little kid, is to try and get away as much
Speaker 2: crap as you can. The job of a criminal is that,
Speaker 2: but on a much more serious level because you have
Speaker 2: real victims in here. You don't have kids sneaking cookies right,
Speaker 2: stealing change at a mom's purse or something like that,
Speaker 2: trying to jump out a window to escape curfew. You
Speaker 2: have people who are praying out of the people, Mordecai
Speaker 2: Black and others. And the answer is that, hey, you
Speaker 2: know what, we got to start splitting wigs here. We
Speaker 2: got to go after these people. We got to put
Speaker 2: them behind bars. We got to quit, do you know,
Speaker 2: we quit releasing their own recognizance. We got to make
Speaker 2: sure that the co are not out there. We don't
Speaker 2: want to talk to people. We don't want to stop
Speaker 2: people for jaywalking. We don't want to stop someone iris
Speaker 2: rawling in telling a cop what to do when they're
Speaker 2: hooking someone because they've they're wanted. No, you can't do that.
Speaker 2: You got to let them go. Well wait a minute,
Speaker 2: they're wanted, they've been worn out for their arrest. No
Speaker 2: you can't. You're harassing them. You have rights too. We're
Speaker 2: listening to that element instead of common sense and says
Speaker 2: there are people out there that they're going to take
Speaker 2: advantage of how naive you are, and I didn't even
Speaker 2: get to things like, you know, the food trucks being
Speaker 2: done at eleven o'clock and all this other nonsense. And
Speaker 2: then finally, because of all these failed policies, grasping its
Speaker 2: draws in doing everything in your power to ignore the
Speaker 2: real problem, you then turn around and go, well, I
Speaker 2: guess we're gonna have to let the chief go. How
Speaker 2: in the hell is this on the chief? Steven m
Speaker 2: is an attorney with the Finny Law firm. He is
Speaker 2: a unemployment lawyer. He's a really good one. I've had
Speaker 2: him on a few times on my show. He is
Speaker 2: also representing, by the way, talking about checked up the
Speaker 2: city is the former chief of fire fire chief in
Speaker 2: the city, mister Washington. He's repping him in his dismissal
Speaker 2: as well. So now he's gonna rep Thigi and i'd
Speaker 2: imagine so I got some stuff to say. So when
Speaker 2: he breaks out, we will break in at sometime at
Speaker 2: ten o'clock or thereafter, we'll have that press confidence for
Speaker 2: you live. I don't think CIGI will be there. If
Speaker 2: she is, she won't talk, But I'm guessing it's just
Speaker 2: going to be Steve im in a podium, and I'm
Speaker 2: interested to hear what he has to say about this
Speaker 2: whole situation I just laid out for you. I don't
Speaker 2: see how much of this, if any, is on Chief Thigi.
Speaker 2: I see a lot of it on a fouled administration
Speaker 2: that's doing everything to grasp and fight to stay in power. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: how much is it going to cost you, mister and
Speaker 2: missus stax Bear to pay Terry Thigi off because of
Speaker 2: this incompetence? While we're gonna find out. Coming up Scott's
Speaker 2: Loan News Radio seven hundred wl All right, Catching up
Speaker 2: here Scott's Loan seven hundred WLW Live. You heard the
Speaker 2: voice of Stephen m attorney from the Finny Law firm
Speaker 2: for Terry Thigi. She's on paid administrative leave as chief
Speaker 2: from the City Cincinnati, standing behind in the civilian clothes,
Speaker 2: not speaking. Obviously, let the lawyer do the talking, for
Speaker 2: she's always smart. We've heard that Terry Thiji, a cops
Speaker 2: cop here, a long family cops and law enforcement in
Speaker 2: Cincinnati from the West Side, was asked to resign. She
Speaker 2: refused because there's no cause, and on her thirty fifth
Speaker 2: anniversary of her start on the job as a police office.
Speaker 2: She finds out that she's being put on paid administrator
Speaker 2: to leave, meaning we're looking for reasons. Now we don't
Speaker 2: have reason to fire you. We're looking for reasons, and
Speaker 2: we're going to put you on unpaid administrative leave. So
Speaker 2: what we got right now is a good old standoff.
Speaker 2: If she stays, she gets the authority to do her job.
Speaker 2: If she goes, it's going to cost you and missus
Speaker 2: tax payer millions and millions of dollars that you can
Speaker 2: all afford. And it doesn't really solve the issue on
Speaker 2: this with some instant reaction is the president of the
Speaker 2: Queen City Lodge of the FOP, that's Ken Kober, can't
Speaker 2: appreciate you jumping in this morning.
Speaker 1: Sure, thanks you to mis step.
Speaker 2: Looks like the no confidence vote you had for this
Speaker 2: administration really really stands up at this point, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean they've fumbled this from the get go.
Speaker 1: You have the chief fly across the country only the
Speaker 1: land in Denver go to go to a conference representing
Speaker 1: the city in the police department only to tell her
Speaker 1: to come home. And then I mean what we've seen
Speaker 1: over the last five days is just absolutely, they fumbled
Speaker 1: this whole thing. It's terrible.
Speaker 2: Well, in addition to that, the person they appointed chief, Henny,
Speaker 2: is the interim chief now and according to sheerlong city manager,
Speaker 2: she said, he has my full support. I'm confident in
Speaker 2: his leadership. I don't know if he's in the next chief,
Speaker 2: but this is the command officer who signed a citation
Speaker 2: against the white guy in the in the brawl in
Speaker 2: July at the urging of the mayor, which is purely political,
Speaker 2: not criminal. Even though Henny wasn't on the scene. He
Speaker 2: ran the Central business district and that had the highest
Speaker 2: spike in crime this year. The optics of that are
Speaker 2: bad for the it gets. It goes from bad to
Speaker 2: worse for these guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll tell you the optics are certainly not good.
Speaker 1: But I will say this about Colonel Henny, as you
Speaker 1: know that hold the back. He was doing nothing but
Speaker 1: protecting investigators from having to do what they just said
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do. And instead of them facing
Speaker 1: the consequences for standing up to it, you know, he
Speaker 1: stepped in and he protected cops, which is something that
Speaker 1: we certainly all appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that from a cops perspective, like
Speaker 2: he got our backs. I'm not going to let the
Speaker 2: rank and file take take the fall on this. But again,
Speaker 2: I don't know what the ethic. I think that's pretty
Speaker 2: unethical though, is that you're told by the mayor to
Speaker 2: do something. It's like, that's not how our justice system works.
Speaker 2: As much as these people spend complaining about Donald Trump,
Speaker 2: you just did the exact same thing that you're allegedly against.
Speaker 2: But I digress a little bit. And the other thing too,
Speaker 2: is if she were effective as chief, why would we
Speaker 2: have so much violent crime. I think that's the big
Speaker 2: question here, is like, well, violent crime has continue to
Speaker 2: go up. The optics are bad on this. We have
Speaker 2: Fountain Square, we had the shooting in front of the
Speaker 2: in between. It just keeps coming and coming and coming
Speaker 2: despite what we do. And yet it wasn't all long
Speaker 2: ago we said, hey, you know, things are effective. She's
Speaker 2: doing a good job. I mean, if you're effective at something,
Speaker 2: we should have less violent crime, not more.
Speaker 1: Well, this just proves what we know along and it
Speaker 1: proves what I've been saying all along, which is we
Speaker 1: need to keep politics out of policing. When you have
Speaker 1: the city manager, the mayor who over over at City
Speaker 1: Hall is telling her what she can and can't do.
Speaker 1: It's proving that that's failing. Chief Deji has the ability
Speaker 1: to be an affected police chief. Unfortunately she's not given
Speaker 1: that ability right now, and when she's told what to
Speaker 1: do by city Hall, she's told what she can can't do.
Speaker 1: The end result is that this is what we have.
Speaker 1: And this is ultimately why you know, the rank and
Speaker 1: file voted for voting no confidence against the mayor because
Speaker 1: they should allow the chief independently to do what she
Speaker 1: wants to do. And if she was screwing it up them,
Speaker 1: then by all means do something about it. But the
Speaker 1: fact that they didn't fire their asking her to resign
Speaker 1: says everything you need to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this isn't her exit, this is about keeping
Speaker 2: hers with Steve im said, So she has no desire
Speaker 2: to go quietly. Actually she's going to go rather violently,
Speaker 2: and it's going to cost a lot of money to
Speaker 2: make her go away. I'm just wondering would the city
Speaker 2: give up authority because this is issue five. So let's talk
Speaker 2: about that background in that it came after Timothy Thomas
Speaker 2: was shot and killed in two thousand and one caused
Speaker 2: the riots. We had a charter amendment. The issue that
Speaker 2: passed I believe in November that year with just over
Speaker 2: fifty percent of the vote, I think fifty fifty one
Speaker 2: fifty two percent. But essentially the Issue five you've mentioned
Speaker 2: that a lot ken is that the city manager in
Speaker 2: this case here, along as the power to hire and
Speaker 2: fire a police chief, fire chief, department, heads at whim
Speaker 2: at will, and there's no balance in that whatsoever. In
Speaker 2: the past, it used to be the FOP you guys
Speaker 2: had a little bit of a say in that. You
Speaker 2: don't have that anymore. Is that what lead to this?
Speaker 1: Well, sure, you know. And ultimately with that passing, allowing
Speaker 1: one person to have sole authority as to whether you
Speaker 1: fire a police chief or a fire chief. It's been
Speaker 1: proven with the fire chief. It's now been proven with
Speaker 1: what's going on with Chief Figi that this is a
Speaker 1: terrible idea. There has to be changes to Issue five,
Speaker 1: otherwise we're going to continue to see the same thing.
Speaker 1: Doesn't matter who you make the police chief, as long
Speaker 1: as city Hall still is making the decisions as to
Speaker 1: what's going to go on with the police department. This
Speaker 1: is what we're going to have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's Ken Cobert, President of the FOP. The reaction
Speaker 2: to Attorney Steve Imm's press conference he heard live on
Speaker 2: seven hundred Wow and on the stream via the iHeart
Speaker 2: radio app too, and that is saying we're fighting this.
Speaker 2: We're not going to let Terry Thiji take essentially be
Speaker 2: a sacrificial lamb, is what he called her, and said,
Speaker 2: this whole thing is disappointing and there's no justification or cause,
Speaker 2: which is a legal term, no cause because she took
Speaker 2: no action or inaction on her part to cause her
Speaker 2: termination or it looks like at least her suspension no wrongdoing,
Speaker 2: and they're going to fight this thing tooth and nail
Speaker 2: and we'll see what happens. But relative to Issue five
Speaker 2: in this case, I had some notes here from back
Speaker 2: in the day in two thousand and one, the manager
Speaker 2: for Issue five that we're talking about here said, this
Speaker 2: is how other cities do it, and of course, you know,
Speaker 2: if other cities do it well, then it's got to
Speaker 2: be successful for Cincinnati. At the time, your predecessor, Keith Fegman,
Speaker 2: remember Keith Keith was the FOP P president, and said,
Speaker 2: what's going to happen is it's going to politicize departments.
Speaker 2: What's going to happen is you're going to have politicians
Speaker 2: making decisions of law enforcement. And anytime that the something happens,
Speaker 2: it's bad. The chief is going to be a sacrificial
Speaker 2: and we'll have a revolving door. And in that case,
Speaker 2: he illustrated the Cleveland when they implemented this, they went
Speaker 2: through nine police chiefs I believe in less than eight
Speaker 2: years because of the system. And now Terry Thiji's gone
Speaker 2: after what three not quite three, We had a chief
Speaker 2: before them.
Speaker 5: It's just going to be a revolving door.
Speaker 2: Because the political will power exists and there's cover, politically speaking,
Speaker 2: to terminate the chief when in fact it's not the chief.
Speaker 2: It's kind of like our foot our sports teams can
Speaker 2: it's it's never the coach, the assistant coach, the line cut,
Speaker 2: it's always the ownership in the front office.
Speaker 5: That's what he's.
Speaker 1: Saying without a doubt. I mean, Keith, he was spot
Speaker 1: on when he said it. That was twenty four years ago.
Speaker 1: We saw with James Craig, he was the first cheat
Speaker 1: to hire outside this police department. To rank and file
Speaker 1: loved him. He refused to cave to pressure from city
Speaker 1: hall and after two years they went, thanks, but no,
Speaker 1: thanks you for gone. You know, we got another chief
Speaker 1: that came in, made it eighteen months they fired him.
Speaker 1: So this is no surprise that this is all coming
Speaker 1: to fruition and it needs to change.
Speaker 2: Can this change before you overturn issue Fiation five? I'd
Speaker 2: have to go back on the ballot. You'd have to
Speaker 2: figure out how to work around that because there was
Speaker 2: a charter amendment that passed in two thousand and one.
Speaker 2: A lot of work to overdo that and the will
Speaker 2: of the voters, of course, But can Chief d Is
Speaker 2: there room for her to come back and do her job?
Speaker 1: I don't know why she'd want to at this point,
Speaker 1: the way that she's been treated. I mean, you treat
Speaker 1: somebody as thirty five years you've given to the city,
Speaker 1: and this is how you're being treated. And I can
Speaker 1: tell you right now the cops are going If they're
Speaker 1: going to do this to the chief, what will they
Speaker 1: do to me. I don't know why you would want
Speaker 1: to come back. I just don't see a scenario where
Speaker 1: that happens, because then she's going to be constantly looking
Speaker 1: over her shoulder. What are they going to do to
Speaker 1: me next. I feel for them. Like I said, is
Speaker 1: this fight with the FOP in the city is just
Speaker 1: as much about Chief Fiji as it is for the
Speaker 1: next chief, for the chief after that and that chief
Speaker 1: fifty years from now. There has got to be changed made.
Speaker 1: And if I have to put all the effort in
Speaker 1: the world to the FOP to make sure that Issue
Speaker 1: five is changed, and that's exactly what we're going to do.
Speaker 5: Ken Kober.
Speaker 2: The name that was mentioned the cause Steve m to
Speaker 2: just simply pause, consider it and then say I can't
Speaker 2: comment on that was the name Iris Rawley.
Speaker 5: How much?
Speaker 2: How many fingerprints are on this, her fingerprints are on
Speaker 2: what's happening right now.
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard saying it wouldn't surprise me. But
Speaker 1: the problem is there was no transparency at city hall.
Speaker 1: That is the absolute problem. You had the mayor say
Speaker 1: after the press conference that we're exploring all all options,
Speaker 1: we're not sure if the chief's going to stay or not,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, you know, nothing happens,
Speaker 1: and then the mayor comes out and says, oh, this
Speaker 1: is show a long decision, this is her It's not
Speaker 1: my decision. It's hers, and of course then she makes
Speaker 1: the decision.
Speaker 3: Go.
Speaker 1: I completely support her decision. It's just the lack of
Speaker 1: transparency is staggering coming from city Hall.
Speaker 2: Well, the fact of the matter, she goes to Denver,
Speaker 2: she gets recalled, there's an urgent message, there's an urgent
Speaker 2: issue in Cincinnati. We already had the Fountains Square shootings
Speaker 2: at this point, she's off to Denver. She comes back
Speaker 2: and now they go, well, we're going to suspend, you'll
Speaker 2: put you on paid leave. Why, Well, we can't say.
Speaker 2: We don't know, but here's the interim chief. And this
Speaker 2: whole thing has been handled so poorly. In drag Affter said,
Speaker 2: but it's decision after decision like this, you know, like
Speaker 2: one way after food carts and red bikes and breaking
Speaker 2: up the probation departments, all these things that actually made
Speaker 2: crime worse or had no impact on whatsoever. And now
Speaker 2: ultimately the last thing they have, the last quiver in
Speaker 2: their arsenal, is firing the chief. And I'll point out
Speaker 2: ken I read this earlier in the show, and I
Speaker 2: think it's worth pointing out again that when she was
Speaker 2: hired in twenty twenty two to replace Elliott, Isaac. She
Speaker 2: was an executive assistant chief, first woman to lead the department,
Speaker 2: and she said in her first interview or her swearing in,
Speaker 2: her priorities upon taking office were dedicated to inheering CPD
Speaker 2: is as inclusive as possible, and I'm committed wholeheartedly to
Speaker 2: continuing the work of the collaborative agreement. That sounds like
Speaker 2: someone who's saying that because she know how she got
Speaker 2: the job, like the those are the marching orders she
Speaker 2: was given by the administration as opposed to well dealing
Speaker 2: with street level crime.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, you know, it's funny how this is all transpiring.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 1: It's like making an arrest and then deciding what the
Speaker 1: crime is. I mean, that's literally, that's how ridiculous this is.
Speaker 1: We're gonna put you on leave until we can figure
Speaker 1: out why it is that we're actually going to fire you,
Speaker 1: and then we're going to do it. It's it's absolutely nonsense.
Speaker 1: And the rank and file recognizes that that You're, regardless
Speaker 1: of how they feel about her as the chief, how
Speaker 1: they feel about her as a police officer, none of
Speaker 1: that matters. The rank and files well, and this is
Speaker 1: at right to treat somebody this way and That's why
Speaker 1: I said that the police department of the rank and
Speaker 1: file has certainly been united over this.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a terrible thing, and that normally, if you're
Speaker 2: looking to get rid of somebody, and I've worked for
Speaker 2: places and work for places where they're always looking at
Speaker 2: you know, cut, cut some baggage, lose, they build a file.
Speaker 2: They go, okay, well this person is doing this. Okay,
Speaker 2: we've got a file. We've got to and you build
Speaker 2: a history so that if you have to terminate someone,
Speaker 2: you can point to that and go it's not discrimination,
Speaker 2: it's for cause.
Speaker 5: Here's the causes. They don't have that here.
Speaker 2: They suspended her paid administrative leave, and now they're looking
Speaker 2: for reasons to go back and say, here's why we
Speaker 2: put you on leave. And this could go on for
Speaker 2: weeks and weeks and weeks to try and funds find
Speaker 2: some dirt on Terry Thiji that may or may not
Speaker 2: probably doesn't exist because you would.
Speaker 1: Have had this stuff already, right exactly.
Speaker 2: And I guess that does have a chilling effect in
Speaker 2: police officers. But you know, we also mentioned that the
Speaker 2: city just went in their pocket for money, even more money,
Speaker 2: another four and a half million dollars to pay police
Speaker 2: officer try and recruit police office because as you know,
Speaker 2: and you often said, were what one hundred and thirty
Speaker 2: to one hundred and fifty cops down? Which is also
Speaker 2: part of the problem too, because we've spent money out
Speaker 2: of the other stupid things not getting keeping boots on
Speaker 2: the ground. But what does that due to recruitment efforts?
Speaker 2: And Simmon sees this from I don't know, we're talking
Speaker 2: about lateral recruitments, meaning you're stealing cops from other jurisdictions,
Speaker 2: go come to shiny sunny Cincinnati and work here.
Speaker 5: It's great.
Speaker 2: How does that undermine the clause that you're trying to do,
Speaker 2: and that is getting more cops signed up, not less.
Speaker 2: This to me sounds like it make cops want to leave,
Speaker 2: not to stay.
Speaker 1: Without a doubt, I mean it is. It is certainly
Speaker 1: going to have a devastating effect on retention because we're
Speaker 1: going to see even more people as soon as they
Speaker 1: get twenty five years on that leave and then anybody
Speaker 1: that actually pays to pays attention to the media, Uh,
Speaker 1: they're not going to want to come here. So it's
Speaker 1: gonna it's going to also affect recruiting, and it's just
Speaker 1: every time we finally get out of the news over
Speaker 1: the you know, the attack at Fourth and Elm and
Speaker 1: how that was handled, and we finally get passed out,
Speaker 1: and then now we have this, and it's just unfortunately
Speaker 1: City Hall seems to not be able to get out
Speaker 1: of their way when it comes to UH dealing with
Speaker 1: these issues, and it's certainly going to have a terrible
Speaker 1: impact on recruitment and retention.
Speaker 5: How long you think this drags out? What's your gut?
Speaker 1: Say? Who knows? I mean weeks? Who knows? I mean
Speaker 1: it's already drug out five or six days? I just
Speaker 1: who knows. I hope it can quickly. It's what the
Speaker 1: men and women of this police department deserve, it's what
Speaker 1: the residents deserve. So just to be handled very quickly
Speaker 1: and let's move on whatever that looks like, whether it's
Speaker 1: her coming back, her not coming back. They need to
Speaker 1: resolve this very very quickly.
Speaker 2: I know the rank and file weren't enamored with Terry Thiji,
Speaker 2: but man, what the city just did is solidify every
Speaker 2: man and woman on that thin blue or white line
Speaker 2: as it is in Cincinnati, on her side.
Speaker 5: This is incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, without a doubt.
Speaker 5: He is Ken Coobert. He is the president of the
Speaker 5: Cincinnati Lodge to the FOP.
Speaker 2: Joining the show with his reaction following the press conference
Speaker 2: involving Terry Figi's administrative paid administrative leaves, I look for
Speaker 2: reasons to fire her, supposed to having reasons. Now we're
Speaker 2: gonna put you on leave, pay you, and then look
Speaker 2: for reasons to fire you. That's completely as backwards as
Speaker 2: it gets or any big city, or any city in
Speaker 2: America for that matter. But that's our town, that is Cincinnati, USA.
Speaker 2: Can all the best be saved? Thanks again?
Speaker 1: All right, thanks very much.
Speaker 5: Sett news on the way. We'll shift it up a
Speaker 5: little bit here.
Speaker 2: Tim Holloway is the president of the Hamlin County Associations
Speaker 2: of Chiefs of Police. His reaction to this and also
Speaker 2: some of the areas that were pointed out in the
Speaker 2: press conference. When get a chance to get to and
Speaker 2: that would be judge's role in this whole thing, and
Speaker 2: the accusation by Steve im that Ted Pirrival won't engage
Speaker 2: county judges to force them to get tougher when it
Speaker 2: comes to bond and releasing people who are violent criminals.
Speaker 2: On their own recognizance. Chief Holloway his reaction next seven
Speaker 2: hundred WWT Cincinnati Scott Sloane Here's news Radio seven hundred
Speaker 2: WLW an hour ago, a press conference to end all
Speaker 2: press conferences from the lips of Steve m a wonderful
Speaker 2: employment law attorney with the Finny Law Firm. And by
Speaker 2: the way, Steve is also repping former fire Chief Michael
Speaker 2: Washington for his discouns on his termination is the end
Speaker 2: of his tenure. Chief Chief Fiji Terry Fiji on paid
Speaker 2: administrative leave, present at the press conference and civilian clothes,
Speaker 2: but not speaking, along with her family, who collectively have
Speaker 2: a combined two hundred and ninety plus years of service
Speaker 2: to Cincinnati. They're all in law enforcement or re leased
Speaker 2: in the public service of that matter. Chief Fiji, on
Speaker 2: the thirty fifth anniversary of her becoming a cop, found
Speaker 2: out that she was the subject of a secret investigation
Speaker 2: basically with no timeline or reason. And she was told
Speaker 2: that we're going to put you on paid administrative leave,
Speaker 2: and we're going to point someone else in your stead,
Speaker 2: and you kind of see the writing on the wall.
Speaker 2: I don't think what they saw coming was that she
Speaker 2: was going to fight this, and her attorney saying there's
Speaker 2: no justification. There was no cause, in which, if you
Speaker 2: know about employment law a little bit, you know the
Speaker 2: cause basically means it's something you did. There's no cause,
Speaker 2: so there's no action or inaction on her part. She
Speaker 2: has a spotless record. In called her a sacrificial lamb,
Speaker 2: and she has absolutely no wrongdoing. This was one hundred
Speaker 2: percent at the behest of the mayor was the suggest
Speaker 2: and the inference there that she is just a political
Speaker 2: scapegoat in a pawn. For the bigger part crime problems
Speaker 2: that exists not because of Terry Thiji and her incompetence,
Speaker 2: but rather because of the foul policies that may aor
Speaker 2: aft to have pure vall shechy lung at All won't
Speaker 2: own up to, and that that is the real issue.
Speaker 2: So how do you fire? You can't fire your way
Speaker 2: out of bad policy, but they're trying to do that,
Speaker 2: and so the end result is Terry Thigi is standing strong.
Speaker 2: She's felt during your tenure she's been hamstrung by politics.
Speaker 2: You can't do your job. The city, though, issued a
Speaker 2: statement from share Long City Manager saying public safety is
Speaker 2: our top priority. That is the issue is it really
Speaker 2: you know, I would say that, you know, if we
Speaker 2: keep going through chiefs and subordinates, we keep getting more
Speaker 2: of the same. It sounds like a metaphor for our
Speaker 2: sports teams here in Cincinnati. Is maybe just maybe it
Speaker 2: ain't the guys on the field, It ain't the assistant coaches,
Speaker 2: it ain't that. Maybe it's the front office. Maybe just
Speaker 2: maybe that's what it is. Nonetheless, joining the show this
Speaker 2: morning with his reaction is the president of the Hamilton
Speaker 2: County Association of Chiefs the Police, and that would be
Speaker 2: Tim Holloway. Tim, good morning, how are you?
Speaker 1: No morning, Scott, good to be with you.
Speaker 2: These are the things that make one say thank I
Speaker 2: may be a police chief, we may have our own
Speaker 2: issues wherever we are across the multi the numbers of
Speaker 2: agencies across the Hamilton County, but at least we're not
Speaker 2: the city of Cincinnati. I say that tongue in cheek
Speaker 2: because I can't help but think that what's happening in
Speaker 2: Cincinnati with the crime, does that affect all of the
Speaker 2: other jurisdictions that are in Cincinnati. Because you represent a
Speaker 2: number of agencies in Hamlin County, the chiefs of police Association. Tim,
Speaker 2: does the crime problem in Fountain Square and elsewhere in
Speaker 2: the central business have a ripple effect?
Speaker 5: Does that make your job harder?
Speaker 6: Well, you know, Scott, I think it's one of those
Speaker 6: issues where it's a cultural issue inside the Hamilt County
Speaker 6: criminal justice system, and there's a sense from the criminals
Speaker 6: and also law enforcement and a lot of the citizens
Speaker 6: that there's not a lot of accountability coming out of
Speaker 6: the Hamilt Counting criminal justice system. And that applies to
Speaker 6: crimes that happened in Cincinnati or even there or anywhere
Speaker 6: else in the county.
Speaker 2: Were you shocked when you learn that Tierry Thiji was
Speaker 2: on paid administrative leab or do you see this coming?
Speaker 6: I feel really sorry for Terry. She is a respected
Speaker 6: member of the Hamilcant Association of Chiefs of Police, and
Speaker 6: what she's having to go through down there, it's really unfortunate.
Speaker 6: I will leave the mechanics of all that to Terry
Speaker 6: and her attorney and the City of Cincinnati to work through.
Speaker 6: She is a tremendous amount of knowledge, tremendous amount of experience,
Speaker 6: and as you mentioned, her family's combined experience. I know
Speaker 6: some of several of her family members you're talking about
Speaker 6: a family and Chief Fiji in particular, that have demonstrated
Speaker 6: a long term commitment to service and public safety.
Speaker 2: I forget, Tim Refreshman, how many different agencies make up
Speaker 2: the Association Chief the place for.
Speaker 5: Hamilkunt There's thirty five agents, thirty.
Speaker 2: Five and I like I asked ken Kobra about the
Speaker 2: rank and file, the men and women of the thin
Speaker 2: blue line of the same white line of the Cincinnati
Speaker 2: Police Department. When when you talk to members, you're thirty
Speaker 2: five members, typically is Chief Neigs you looked at favorably?
Speaker 1: I would think so.
Speaker 6: And to put that in perspective, I'll leave that largely
Speaker 6: for ken Cobra to comment on. People may find this shocking,
Speaker 6: but the rank and file police officers don't spend a
Speaker 6: lot of time thinking about Chief dj just like the
Speaker 6: rank and file deputies of the Cherf's Apartment don't spend
Speaker 6: a lot of time thinking about Chief Holloway. You know,
Speaker 6: we all have our communities that we serve. I I'll
Speaker 6: leed the ken Cobra and the rest of the folks
Speaker 6: of Cincinnati offered their opinion on that one.
Speaker 5: Tim.
Speaker 2: One of the issues that came up, of course, is
Speaker 2: issue five, and that was a charter rewrite that people
Speaker 2: wanted back in two thousand and one following the riots,
Speaker 2: and we're both around for that, and that is giving
Speaker 2: the city manager in essence all authority over the chiefs
Speaker 2: of police, fire and leadership. And we saw why that
Speaker 2: was a bad thing. At the time, a lot of
Speaker 2: people thought it was good. There's one entity in Keith Fahman.
Speaker 2: Then the FOP president said this is a bad idea
Speaker 2: because it's going to be one hundred percent political and
Speaker 2: any time that there's anytime something like this happens, it's
Speaker 2: going to be a sacrificial lamb. And we saw that
Speaker 2: come to fruition today or at least in the last
Speaker 2: week or so. That's not an issue that exists anywhere
Speaker 2: outside of the city. And so I think in other areas, like,
Speaker 2: for example, where you are, you have some authority and
Speaker 2: autonomy to do your job and go after bad guys
Speaker 2: as you see.
Speaker 6: Fit Yeh Scott, every single police chief in the county
Speaker 6: is in largely the same situation, and that is we
Speaker 6: have an obligation to provide police services to our community
Speaker 6: consistent with that community's expectations. And obviously the elected officials
Speaker 6: should weigh.
Speaker 3: In with the police use.
Speaker 6: On their opinion of what that means. But at the
Speaker 6: end of the day, you hire a police chief for
Speaker 6: their knowledge and experience about law enforcement strategies. The elected
Speaker 6: officials here in Evendale would be a fool to come
Speaker 6: to me about tax increment financing or tax abatements because
Speaker 6: that's that's not my specially. They should go to somebody
Speaker 6: else for that. And politicians, while they have an opinion
Speaker 6: on goals for law enforcement, they ought not be dictating strategy.
Speaker 6: It's not because it's not important to them. It's because
Speaker 6: they don't have the right frame of knowledge and experience
Speaker 6: that a police she has.
Speaker 2: All right, One of the things brought up, Tim Holloway
Speaker 2: with this press conference that we carried is that the
Speaker 2: I think I know Steve im said this directly or not,
Speaker 2: but basically the mayor won't engage county judges about low
Speaker 2: bonds in releasing people on their own recognizo ours and
Speaker 2: that's part of the problem here. It's one thing to
Speaker 2: talk about, you know, Terry Thiji in hercompetence or incompetence
Speaker 2: and why she was put on paid administry of leaving
Speaker 2: the politics behind that it's almost always politics, and it's
Speaker 2: an unfortunate situation for Terry and her family, and it's
Speaker 2: also grossly unfair, and it's making people who once were
Speaker 2: on the fence are like not a big fan of
Speaker 2: Terry Thiji come to her defense. And so it's worked out,
Speaker 2: I think in that area very well for her. But
Speaker 2: when you hear that, the mayor won't engage with even
Speaker 2: talk to judges and say, look, we got a problem.
Speaker 2: You guys keep releasing people on low bond. They get
Speaker 2: out and they do worse things. The mayor won't even
Speaker 2: have that conversation.
Speaker 1: Right, that's my understanding.
Speaker 6: I'm not part of any of those conversations. I have
Speaker 6: no direct contact with the mayor of the City Cincinnati.
Speaker 6: All I can tell you is collectively, the police chiefs
Speaker 6: in the Hamilton County recognize this problem for quite a
Speaker 6: few years. And Chief Thiji brought us that challenge a
Speaker 6: few months ago to address some of these systemic issues
Speaker 6: in the criminal justice system. And we are working hard
Speaker 6: on that and will continue to work hard on that.
Speaker 2: And d I think is there's multi legs of this stool, right,
Speaker 2: and one of them is enforcement. It's getting tough on
Speaker 2: those who are violing the law. The last edict a
Speaker 2: Fountain Square was like, look, we're gonna have swat, We're
Speaker 2: gonna have operations out there. We're going to stop people
Speaker 2: and talk to them, make contact with people when they
Speaker 2: violate the law. And the slightest it's the broken windows
Speaker 2: theory policing, which seems to work. But the other side
Speaker 2: of this thing, and one of the other areas is
Speaker 2: the judges in the courts themselves. The fact that probation,
Speaker 2: parole and juvenile courts have they yet to talk to
Speaker 2: the associations. The chiefs police had a discussion with you guys.
Speaker 2: You've had open houses and roundtables and everything else, and
Speaker 2: so far they hid behind some sort of judicial canon,
Speaker 2: some judicial code of conduct that prohibits them from sitting
Speaker 2: down and discussing what their mindset is when they release
Speaker 2: people on very low bonds or all are because that
Speaker 2: would violate some sort of judicial code. At the same time,
Speaker 2: these are the same folks who went out when it's
Speaker 2: time to get out the vote and had open houses
Speaker 2: and went out in the community and talked about voting
Speaker 2: and how they're getting good judges on the bench are important.
Speaker 2: So somehow that's different but the same in that regard, though,
Speaker 2: have you yet to have any conversations with the entities
Speaker 2: here that aren't showing up to these roundtables you're holding.
Speaker 6: You know, Scott, To the credit of the common police judges,
Speaker 6: they did invite us down to speak to all of
Speaker 6: them and that conversation went very well. And some of
Speaker 6: the please judges and municipal judges have come to these
Speaker 6: community lead listening sessions and we expect that we're gonna
Speaker 6: be talking with the municipal judges sometime next week. But yes,
Speaker 6: you're right, we have yet to hear from from Juvenile Court,
Speaker 6: and we have yet to hear from Probation and parole,
Speaker 6: and you know, all these partners in the criminal just
Speaker 6: system we need to be working together to make Hamilton
Speaker 6: County safer. You know, people will throw around crime stats
Speaker 6: a lot, and whether it's up three percent this year,
Speaker 6: four percent next year, or whatever it is. At the
Speaker 6: end of the day, we live in a new environment
Speaker 6: where through social media and just electronic media in general,
Speaker 6: people are far better informed about I'm in their own
Speaker 6: community and neighboring communities. And the fact of the matter is,
Speaker 6: if people feel unsafe someplace. It doesn't matter what the
Speaker 6: statistics say. And we have an obligation for people to
Speaker 6: feel safe in every community in Hamlin County.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 2: We have the price confidence with Terry Thiji and her
Speaker 2: attorney fighting back, pushing back against the claims of either
Speaker 2: negligence and competence or something along those lines. And the
Speaker 2: fact that, in the words of Steve n basically as
Speaker 2: we came up with a crime, we came up with
Speaker 2: a charge, and then we're still trying to find out
Speaker 2: what the crime is. They can't find out what the
Speaker 2: crime is, even though the charge sounds familiar. But in
Speaker 2: that regard, I have Tim holloway on he is president
Speaker 2: of the Hamlet County Associations the Chiefs of Police, and
Speaker 2: his reaction to what transpired today and what's transpired with
Speaker 2: Terry Thiji. And also part of the problems we're talking
Speaker 2: about is the juvenile courts, probation prole departments and their
Speaker 2: issue with bonds. You have specific issues relative to this,
Speaker 2: because didn't we just have a case in Coryville that
Speaker 2: to illustrate the absurdity of this.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I will say this, I'm going to criticize
Speaker 6: Judge Yates on one hand and give him kudos. On
Speaker 6: the other hand, I will criticize his decision making process.
Speaker 6: There was a shoplift at Kroger and Coreyville, and when
Speaker 6: he was confronted by Kroger security, he resisted them.
Speaker 1: The police were called.
Speaker 6: Police officers got involved, and when Judge Yates got ready
Speaker 6: to pass bond to his arraignment, what Judge Yates knew
Speaker 6: was that the defendant had arrested and mazed a sintinct
Speaker 6: police officer and a security guard from Kroker, and there
Speaker 6: was a series of charges. I don't remember what they
Speaker 6: all were, but there were several different felonies, including robbery
Speaker 6: and felonious assault, and he was able to walk out
Speaker 6: of the courtroom having only to post a five hundred
Speaker 6: dollars bond. Now, to Judge Yates's credit, he did respond
Speaker 6: to media inquiries on this and gave his explanation. So
Speaker 6: I'm glad that he's being transparent and accountable. But on
Speaker 6: the other hand, you know, the judge Yates said that
Speaker 6: one of the responsibilities of bail or judge and setting
Speaker 6: bail is to consider how dangerous the defendant is and
Speaker 6: whether they're likely to appear in court. And I think
Speaker 6: when anybody with common sense looks at these facts, this
Speaker 6: guy was so bound and determined not to be held
Speaker 6: accountable for a theft that he was willing to assault
Speaker 6: a security guard. He was willing to assault a SINCEAI
Speaker 6: police officer and spray them with mace and try and
Speaker 6: get away.
Speaker 1: People like that.
Speaker 6: Are dangerous to the community. And when he was not
Speaker 6: even willing to submit to an arrest, why would anybody
Speaker 6: think that this guy's going to come back and show
Speaker 6: up in court voluntarily. This was clearly a situation where
Speaker 6: the judge could have laid up that set of facts
Speaker 6: and had his bond ten to fifteen higher than what
Speaker 6: he did, and it still would have been consistent with
Speaker 6: a lot of other decisions down there. On the other hand,
Speaker 6: Janakio just a few days put a two point six
Speaker 6: million dollar bond on a defendant on a Piloni's assault charge.
Speaker 6: So people have the right to expect that the judges
Speaker 6: are going to work to keep the community safe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, just top of my head. The way
Speaker 2: he described that is you have robbery first of all,
Speaker 2: which is the mitigating cause, but then you have follows assault,
Speaker 2: You have obstructing official business. Probably you have assault on
Speaker 2: the police officer. There's probably a ton of charges involved there,
Speaker 2: and yet it says, yeah, three hundred dollars.
Speaker 5: That's fine.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it baffles me, and I do you, And I
Speaker 6: talked about this before. I'm not looking to take away
Speaker 6: autonomy and discretion from judges. That's not what our afforts
Speaker 6: are about. But it's about making judges that callible for
Speaker 6: how they exercise that autonomy and discretion. And I think
Speaker 6: I speak for a lot of people when when I
Speaker 6: say that that bond in that case is unreasonably low.
Speaker 2: And I'll point out too that this happened when middle
Speaker 2: October sometime maybe a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 6: I believe it was like the fourteenth or fifteenth, so
Speaker 6: just a handful of days ago.
Speaker 2: So this wasn't prior. This was after we had things
Speaker 2: like Patrick Carringer's murder with Mordecai Black, where we had
Speaker 2: assaults downtown. We've had numerous shootings and murders involving people
Speaker 2: who had a weapon under disability. Hell, we just had
Speaker 2: one in Fountain Square. Well, Fountain Square is one of them,
Speaker 2: but also the one near in between Sycamore and third,
Speaker 2: where you had an individual who was wearing an ankle
Speaker 2: monitor shoot to death another person in a car for
Speaker 2: reasons we don't know at this point, and this happened
Speaker 2: after all of those things occurred.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's true.
Speaker 5: Looking for.
Speaker 6: You look at both the Fountain Square shooting and the
Speaker 6: shooting down in between. You're talking about people with extensive
Speaker 6: criminal history. And in the case of the shooting down
Speaker 6: there in between, the both the defendant and the victim
Speaker 6: had extensive criminal history. And I think that's the point
Speaker 6: that we're focused on. It's not a lock everybody up,
Speaker 6: but it's locked the right people up. And there's some
Speaker 6: very dangerous criminals run around Hamilton County, and we need
Speaker 6: to pick out those one hundred to two hundred most
Speaker 6: dangerous criminals, and the entire criminal justic system needs to
Speaker 6: figure out.
Speaker 1: How we're going to keep these keep us on anybody else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, well, the in between one would happened after,
Speaker 2: but still, you know, you have a long history of
Speaker 2: people who say, hey, you know what, Okay, fine, I'll
Speaker 2: go look for a job and I'll be accountable to
Speaker 2: the probation department. When people just leave minutes after that,
Speaker 2: the ink is even dried in that agreement, and they're
Speaker 2: out back committing crimes yet again. And instead of looking
Speaker 2: at and going well, we have people taking advantage of
Speaker 2: the system. It's time to turn the screws down a
Speaker 2: little bit more than the three hundred dollars bond. We
Speaker 2: have judges just continuing to rubber stamp this kind of
Speaker 2: behavior and it just encouraged go, hey, three hundred dollars
Speaker 2: and I can go commit more crimes. Good, sign me up.
Speaker 2: I'll just keep lying to the judge and they'll keep
Speaker 2: slapping me on the wrist. It's a revolving door. Stupidity
Speaker 2: is what it is. Tim Holloway is the president of
Speaker 2: the Hamlet County Association of Chiefs of Police.
Speaker 5: Thanks for jumping in this morning, Tim, all the best,
Speaker 5: be safe, all right, thanks Scott.
Speaker 2: Are we get a time out and we've got news
Speaker 2: on the will reset. We'll find out the very latest.
Speaker 2: And the followed continues from the press conference by Steve
Speaker 2: and m at ten o'clock this morning regarding the I
Speaker 2: guess the peaceful surrender of Terry Fiji. She's not going
Speaker 2: to go quietly. It's not going to be a peaceful
Speaker 2: surrender at all. It's going to cost the taxpayers of
Speaker 2: the city of Cincinnati millions to make it go away.
Speaker 2: All she wants to do is stay and have more
Speaker 2: say in how to police things, which sounds like a
Speaker 2: reasonable request. We'll see how it plays out. More to
Speaker 2: follow here Willie's going to pick us up at twelve
Speaker 2: oh six day. As a matter of fact, we'll be
Speaker 2: talking about this all day long. Here seven hundred wlbody
Speaker 2: time to talk about money, how to make it, how
Speaker 2: to keep it, and how to keep others off your stash.
Speaker 5: This is all Worth Advice with Andy Shaeffer.
Speaker 2: All Right, we tap out a second from the police
Speaker 2: chief thing to well your money, because I hate talking
Speaker 2: about the same thing for hours at a time. Let's
Speaker 2: talk about something that you've got more skin and control
Speaker 2: in the game, and that is what's in your wallet,
Speaker 2: or maybe not even all on. That is our buddy,
Speaker 2: Andy Shaeffer from all Worth Financial and simply Money. Welcome,
Speaker 2: How are you, Good morning, Scott. I'm doing great drama today.
Speaker 2: We got drama all over. The drama continues. Let's get
Speaker 2: into the market stuff, and first and foremost, I'm curious.
Speaker 2: Yesterday we had a huge outage with Amazon Web services
Speaker 2: didn't see what the markets did yesterday. Yeah, we see
Speaker 2: that scarce hellity because you're talking about a lot of
Speaker 2: commerce getting shut down for a good period yesterday, banking, security, retail,
Speaker 2: all that stuff. When these kind of things happen, what
Speaker 2: kind of impact do they have in the short term?
Speaker 2: On short term but you know, you wonder if this
Speaker 2: thing went on for days, which is entirely possible with
Speaker 2: the hacks that we've had lately that we've talked about,
Speaker 2: the impact that would have on the markets.
Speaker 7: Not much. Well, it depends on what kind of breach
Speaker 7: it was. You know, these types of companies, whether it's
Speaker 7: Amazon or any other big type of retailer, you know,
Speaker 7: gets hacked and attempted hacked all the time. And you know,
Speaker 7: for us at all Worth Financial, you know, our second
Speaker 7: biggest department is our technology and security team. So it's
Speaker 7: very important number one to make sure that you continue
Speaker 7: to do business as you always do business. But number two,
Speaker 7: to make sure that nothing nefarious is going on where
Speaker 7: they're trying to you know, hold this company hostage for
Speaker 7: ransom or whatever it may be. I think in this case,
Speaker 7: you know, as long as Amazon can get back up
Speaker 7: and running, fairly quickly.
Speaker 5: It's not a big deal.
Speaker 7: But if you remember years ago there was a breach
Speaker 7: with Target and a lot of individuals credit was compromised.
Speaker 7: You know, I was one of them. I got a
Speaker 7: letter and said, hey, you want to reach out to
Speaker 7: you know, the three major credit agencies and probably freeze
Speaker 7: your credit. That can have a more serious impact. But
Speaker 7: the markets did just find yesterday didn't have a significant
Speaker 7: magnificant impact on Amazon or economy because it is such
Speaker 7: a robust company and so is our economy.
Speaker 2: Well you're gonna see that someday there we're going to
Speaker 2: have a massive outage like this, and it's really going
Speaker 2: to rock if it went on maybe for a day
Speaker 2: or two or longer. We've seen companies be held hostage
Speaker 2: by malware, you know, kettering health for example, recent local example,
Speaker 2: local media spells around here where they were had malware.
Speaker 2: Now that that's certainly probably not gonna affect something as
Speaker 2: big as an Amazon, But if we had a major
Speaker 2: outage like that, the markets would just pumble. I would think,
Speaker 2: I just wonder how long we would go without those
Speaker 2: services and with those platforms and now with that commerce
Speaker 2: before that had a effect on what we're talking about.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would like.
Speaker 7: To think these companies are taking the necessary precautions not
Speaker 7: only for protection, but also for troubleshooting and rectifying any
Speaker 7: situation that they have. And like I said, you know,
Speaker 7: most of these companies, the technology and securities teams are massive.
Speaker 7: So I'm not saying that it's never going to happen.
Speaker 7: It probably will, but hopefully, you know, we were to
Speaker 7: have the ability to be able to go in fix it,
Speaker 7: straighten it out, and get back on track to what
Speaker 7: we do in the United States and that's produced and
Speaker 7: continue to generate revenue.
Speaker 2: You know, I was talking to someone who has vast
Speaker 2: knowledge of this and they said, you know, real culprit
Speaker 2: in this whole thing. And what we're talking about this scenario,
Speaker 2: it's private equity. Is that a lot of these huge
Speaker 2: vendors get private equity mode, which is great at the
Speaker 2: beginning because they can invest in research and development and
Speaker 2: infrastructure all that stuff. But as it goes on and
Speaker 2: they want to continue high returns, high dividends because that's
Speaker 2: what they do, they will then cut corners at the
Speaker 2: software that would keep them on the cutting edge and
Speaker 2: they fall further and further behind. Thus, causing more and
Speaker 2: more things like this to happen. I think it's a
Speaker 2: really interesting analysis of it.
Speaker 7: I think that would be one of the last steps.
Speaker 7: I have a lot of experience with private equity. You know,
Speaker 7: with with private equity, you know, the saying goes as
Speaker 7: long as you are producing and continuing to be a
Speaker 7: profitable company, private equity usually leaves you alone. It keeps
Speaker 7: management in place. You know, they invest in you for
Speaker 7: a reason. They like your outlook for the most part. Now,
Speaker 7: if you start to go sideways and profits start to diminish,
Speaker 7: that's when you know the board gets involved and starts
Speaker 7: making cuts and making decisions. But I think for private equity,
Speaker 7: you know they have their investors at heart as well.
Speaker 7: And if you start cutting technology, innovation, protection and security,
Speaker 7: that can not only harm the business that you have,
Speaker 7: but you know, you answer to your investors. So I think,
Speaker 7: you know, if push comes to shove, that's way down
Speaker 7: the list of things that private equity would cut.
Speaker 2: And Dy Schaffer with all Worth Financial, we'll pivot to
Speaker 2: what a week ago President Trump said, We're going to
Speaker 2: hit China with one hundred percent terrorists because of the
Speaker 2: rare earth mineral thing and now we're walking that threat back,
Speaker 2: so more of that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, it seems like that's kind of been the
Speaker 7: rhetoric that we've seen. You know, Donald Trump is bombastic
Speaker 7: and he places these threats, particularly on China. And you know,
Speaker 7: two fridays ago, we saw the market pull back significantly
Speaker 7: when he threatened those hundred percent tariffs on China. You know,
Speaker 7: that was basically in retaliation for the export of restrictions
Speaker 7: on the rare earth minerals. But late last week President
Speaker 7: walked that back. He said, you know, this is not
Speaker 7: really sustainable to have one hundred percent tariffs on China,
Speaker 7: and the Marcus enjoyed that, and it continued to soften.
Speaker 7: We're going to see Secretary Scott Missent. He's going to
Speaker 7: meet with Chinese Vice President Eye and they will meet
Speaker 7: Malaysia next week to prepare for the meeting between Donald
Speaker 7: Trump and Chinese President She later this month. And that's
Speaker 7: important because we have a November tenth tariff deadline that's
Speaker 7: still looming with China, so that ninety eight truce that
Speaker 7: we had with China that's about to expire. I think
Speaker 7: the fact that President Trump and presidenty are still on
Speaker 7: track to meet later this month prior to the end
Speaker 7: of that ninety day truce and that November tenth deadline
Speaker 7: is positive, and I think the markets have reflected that.
Speaker 2: Even with that, we're going to threaten you with one
Speaker 2: hundred percent tariffs kind of like out of nowhere.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, you know, I think a lot of that
Speaker 7: rhetoric is used for leverage. I think what Donald Trump
Speaker 7: wants to do is, you know, let the Chinese know
Speaker 7: that we do have leverage in place. There are things
Speaker 7: that we can do. Our economy can withstand this type
Speaker 7: of trade war a lot better than China can, and
Speaker 7: I think President she knows that. I think both sides
Speaker 7: want to come to an agreement. We need China and
Speaker 7: China needs us, and I think they're both aware of that.
Speaker 2: Okay, So back to the other big issue at hand,
Speaker 2: and that is the umpteenth day. I think what twenty
Speaker 2: days now government shutdown. That is a big question mark
Speaker 2: as well. We know that people aren't getting their paychecks
Speaker 2: in the federal government doesn't seem to be impacting markets
Speaker 2: at all too. But in that regard, we're also not
Speaker 2: getting the government data to indicate where our economy is.
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know that we're on day twenty one. Now,
Speaker 7: the government, yep, still remains a major policy variable. We
Speaker 7: don't really know what it's going to look like. It
Speaker 7: keeps the data in the dark, like we've talked about.
Speaker 7: You know, it forces US and other firms like us
Speaker 7: to build analysis on estimates for different types of information
Speaker 7: that we don't have, So you know, there's a lot
Speaker 7: of algorithms involved and a lot of math that's involved
Speaker 7: with that. But what we're showing is that initial jobless
Speaker 7: claims near about two hundred and fifteen thousand in mid October.
Speaker 7: That implies that layoffs remain low despite a lot of
Speaker 7: this policy noise. So we'll see, you know, I think
Speaker 7: right now we're still in the environment where companies are
Speaker 7: not hiring very much, but they're also not firing very much.
Speaker 7: So you know, hopefully we can get Congress back in session.
Speaker 7: It looks like it's starting to tilt the way of
Speaker 7: you know, opening back up the government, but there's still
Speaker 7: a long way to go for them.
Speaker 2: Okay, he's Andy Schaeffer with all Worth Financial every Tuesday
Speaker 2: morning on the Scotsland show seven hundred WLW on it
Speaker 2: of course be the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 5: Take that wherever you go.
Speaker 2: You can listen in real time or podcast later if
Speaker 2: you wish. So we again, it sounds like because we're
Speaker 2: not getting the data, we just are going with the
Speaker 2: numbers we had before the shutdown, which our inflation and
Speaker 2: employment outlooks are well haven't moved.
Speaker 5: They might have, We just don't know.
Speaker 7: Yeah, we don't know. But fet Shairman Powell basically said that,
Speaker 7: you know, he believes just that he thinks that inflation
Speaker 7: unemployment outlooks haven't changed very much. You know, we're going
Speaker 7: to get a lot of Fed speakers this week, like
Speaker 7: we always do. They love to talk. We're going to
Speaker 7: the Fed's going to meet later this month October twenty
Speaker 7: eighth and twenty ninth. They'll make a decision on interest rates.
Speaker 7: I do suspect that we will see an interest rate
Speaker 7: cut of about a quarter percent. Fet Shairman poll basically said, Hey,
Speaker 7: we're keeping that rate cut on the on the table.
Speaker 7: The markets have basically taken that into account at this
Speaker 7: point of pricing that in to the games that we've had.
Speaker 7: So we'll see what they have to say. I always
Speaker 7: look forward to hearing what feed Sharman Powell has to
Speaker 7: say on those Wednesdays and particularly in the press conferences afterwards.
Speaker 2: Okay, Andy, there's something that was bubbling. I think in
Speaker 2: the credit markets. I saw right, I was I forget
Speaker 2: the two companies two principles, But there were some loan
Speaker 2: fraud issues.
Speaker 7: Yes, So we were seeing a little bit of some
Speaker 7: issues with regional banks. There were some regional letters Science
Speaker 7: Bank Corp. And Western Alliance. They disclosed that there was
Speaker 7: some alleged loan fraud tied to funds buying distressed commercial mortgages.
Speaker 7: And that's basically a fancy way of saying, hey, they
Speaker 7: were gobbling up some things that were not good investments,
Speaker 7: and they have some losses because of it. They had
Speaker 7: tens of millions.
Speaker 1: Of dollars and losses.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 7: So on the surface, that doesn't seem like it's a
Speaker 7: big deal. Now, the sell off in those bank stocks
Speaker 7: were pretty heavy. And what happens is is there can
Speaker 7: be a potential fallout for other smaller regional banks as well.
Speaker 7: We went through this three or four years ago. I
Speaker 7: don't know if you remember, but there were some banks
Speaker 7: up in the Pacific Northwest that had some issues with
Speaker 7: their balance sheet as well, and the threat was that Hey,
Speaker 7: is this going to be a fallout with all regional
Speaker 7: banks and smaller banks could be more systematic. We don't
Speaker 7: believe it is. Fortunately locally here, Fifth third for example,
Speaker 7: reported smaller than expected lost provisions.
Speaker 1: So we'll see where it goes.
Speaker 5: We're not too concerned about it at the moment.
Speaker 2: We haven't had a big banking crisis in a while
Speaker 2: or a way over here for one.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, big banking crisises are hard to go by it.
Speaker 7: You know, I've been around long enough to remember two
Speaker 7: thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, I actually held
Speaker 7: some Leman Brothers bonds that went the fault, and so
Speaker 7: that was a challenging time. But yeah, we haven't had
Speaker 7: a big one in a while. You know, you hope
Speaker 7: that we're not due for one. I think that right
Speaker 7: now when we look at the overall picture and the banks,
Speaker 7: you know, banks still have the ability to borrow from
Speaker 7: the federal Reserve, and right now we're not seeing a
Speaker 7: lot of banks doing that. So that is a safety
Speaker 7: net for a lot of banks if things start to
Speaker 7: go sideway.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, I'm here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were not hearing about the financial markets that
Speaker 2: regard a big banking crisis. The one bubble you hear
Speaker 2: about bubbles, bubble, it's a bubble of the housing bubble
Speaker 2: of two thousand and eight, the dot com bubble, the bubble,
Speaker 2: the big bubble Now is AI. Is there any validity
Speaker 2: in that argument that the and it's going to burst
Speaker 2: and it's going to be like nineteen twenty nine all
Speaker 2: over again.
Speaker 7: Well, I think the reason that people say that is
Speaker 7: because the price for AI stocks is very high right now.
Speaker 7: And when you do an analysis on stocks, you look at, Okay,
Speaker 7: what's the profit versus what's the price? They call it
Speaker 7: the pe ratio profit over earnings. Well, the profits for
Speaker 7: these companies aren't significantly high, but we have all this
Speaker 7: money flowing into the price of the stocks, so they're
Speaker 7: overvalued right now. And the reason is is so, to
Speaker 7: answer your question directly, I'm not too concerned about an
Speaker 7: AI bubble. And the reason is is that the outlook
Speaker 7: for AI is significant. This is going to be a
Speaker 7: revolution like we had in the early two thousands with
Speaker 7: the dot com era, the Internet and those types of things.
Speaker 7: So to me, this is a big deal. I think
Speaker 7: investors understand that this is going to be the future
Speaker 7: of our society. And so they're comfortable paying a little
Speaker 7: bit of a premium with the expectations that those companies
Speaker 7: are going to continue to be profitable over the next five, ten, fifteen,
Speaker 7: twenty years.
Speaker 5: Got it?
Speaker 2: Okay, So we have the government showdown to shut down,
Speaker 2: the showdown of twenty one days now full three weeks
Speaker 2: into this whole thing, and then the longer it goes
Speaker 2: and there's more pain, and eventually they come to a
Speaker 2: reasonable solution saying, Okay, we got to stop because people
Speaker 2: are tired of this. But there's no there's absolutely no
Speaker 2: ground swell by the American people to push that narrative.
Speaker 2: So we just sit there going, yeah, who cares, man,
Speaker 2: the government it's open, it's shut. We don't care, and
Speaker 2: the markets continue, everything's doing well. I said, it's not
Speaker 2: until we start to feel some pay And I mentioned
Speaker 2: how much theater there is in this thing too. I
Speaker 2: think it's funny because it's kind of like the analogy
Speaker 2: I gave is you close your business by by sending
Speaker 2: like the receptionists to home. So somebody shows up and goes, well,
Speaker 2: the receptions on it, but there's you know, ninety nine
Speaker 2: percent of the people in the back are still working.
Speaker 5: It's just the reception desk gets closed. That's what this
Speaker 5: is like.
Speaker 2: We're closing parks and all the making it just uncomfortable
Speaker 2: enough at TSA and airports for people to take notice.
Speaker 5: And in your world.
Speaker 2: I think it's funny because the Beer of Labor Statistics
Speaker 2: recalled its staff to compile the September CPI report. You
Speaker 2: need that report because that's what they based the cost
Speaker 2: of living the coal adjustments for social security, because we
Speaker 2: can't piss old people off when it comes to their
Speaker 2: social security.
Speaker 1: There go, I mean, you got it exactly right.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, you know, you know most of the
Speaker 7: government still remains open. But could you imagine if people
Speaker 7: that are getting Social Security did not get their cost
Speaker 7: of living, that would wipe out most of the incumbents
Speaker 7: and concress.
Speaker 5: So there you go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's funny how that works.
Speaker 5: It's just funny. Well we better do that.
Speaker 2: Well, well, the old people are the people who vote,
Speaker 2: are going to be really mad at us if they
Speaker 2: don't get their three percent. So where you get to
Speaker 2: come back to the office and do that. Yeah, to
Speaker 2: show you how serious the shutdown is and government is. Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, it's the umbrella of seriousness because they dress
Speaker 2: in very very expensive suits and coats and ties and
Speaker 2: call each other gentlemen and gentlewomen and things like that.
Speaker 2: But you know, the actual behind the scenes is a
Speaker 2: lot more comical than that. He's Andy Schaeffer all we're
Speaker 2: all worth financial. Their show simply money. There's at six
Speaker 2: o'clock on fifty five KRC. You can check it out
Speaker 2: over there, and we talk every Tuesday about your money. Andy,
Speaker 2: all the best. Have a great week. We'll talk next tuesday.
Speaker 7: You too, Scott, talk you next week.
Speaker 2: So, of course, the big story going today is Terry Thiji.
Speaker 2: We had a press conference at ten o'clock, just at
Speaker 2: ten o'clock this morning. The principle involved was her attorney
Speaker 2: talking about talking about she's fired, she suspended. The whole
Speaker 2: thing is a dumpster fire. But again that dumpster fire
Speaker 2: is just a small dumpster fire in front of the
Speaker 2: large tire fire that is city Hall. Particularly the administration,
Speaker 2: the A F TAD Peer Vault administration. They just don't
Speaker 2: handle things well at all, And that led, of course
Speaker 2: to the crime wave that led the dismissal of Terry Thiji.
Speaker 2: It was just a month ago where af tat peer vess.
Speaker 2: So no, no, the crime numbers are down, and now
Speaker 2: a month later, with an election looming, he fires his
Speaker 2: police chief. That makes sense to me either, But again
Speaker 2: it's politics, and when you either talk about the shutdown
Speaker 2: or the joke a city hall, it's all the same
Speaker 2: argument that these are not serious people that act a
Speaker 2: lot more serious, and we look at them and go, oh,
Speaker 2: they must know something we don't.
Speaker 5: I don't think they do. I really really don't.
Speaker 2: But anyway, Willie's going to pick up the Fiji topic
Speaker 2: at twelve oh six today, right after a news update
Speaker 2: and more to follow on the Home of the Best
Speaker 2: Bengals coverage seven hundred WWT Cincinnati