Speaker 1: All right, it's Saturday night, nine oh seven. It's don
Speaker 1: A d with my buddy doctor west crafton. Thanks for
Speaker 1: making the trip from Nashville. Or are you in Kentucky already?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I was in Kentucky. Yeah, at my parents house.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Doctor Wes. You've heard them on with Sterling and I.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna so tonight. I used to do Saturdays.
Speaker 1: It's been a minute, and we're going to do something
Speaker 1: a little bit different, which is why I asked you
Speaker 1: to come on the show with me. It's going to
Speaker 1: be more of a relationship call in show, relationship driven
Speaker 1: because I love talking about it and I really feel
Speaker 1: like at this point in time in this life, people
Speaker 1: are disconnected and through through social media, through politics, through
Speaker 1: you know, being on their phones all the time and
Speaker 1: video games, and they're not out you know, mingling and
Speaker 1: understanding how important it is to have connection with others.
Speaker 4: So that's why I wanted to have you here.
Speaker 1: And we're going to get right into it because you know,
Speaker 1: there's no greater pain or suffering than when you are.
Speaker 4: Going through a breakup.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, right.
Speaker 1: Like anybody past the age of sixteen knows what that's like.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 1: And if you've ever gone through a divorce after being
Speaker 1: with someone, let's say nineteen years, and you have kids,
Speaker 1: then it becomes excruciating sometimes and you're not giving a choice,
Speaker 1: like for instance, and we know who's in the news
Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman and her husband Keith Urban.
Speaker 4: It's so public too to have.
Speaker 1: To have your business being thrown out there, and with
Speaker 1: two teenage daughters, the heartache of being with somebody for
Speaker 1: so long and then thinking you are living your life
Speaker 1: without this person anymore. And this couple really seemed like
Speaker 1: they were in love for a long time. Sure, I
Speaker 1: mean nineteen years together is a long time. But you
Speaker 1: the question that I have for you because you counsel
Speaker 1: couples all the time, and you've been doing this for
Speaker 1: how long.
Speaker 3: I've been doing it for a little over a decade. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 1: Is there are there signs that you can tell whether
Speaker 1: a couple is going to make it or break it?
Speaker 4: Like how do you know? Is it a quick sign?
Speaker 4: Is it immediate?
Speaker 1: Can you tell right off the bat or can you
Speaker 1: tell through weeks and months of therapy and whether someone's
Speaker 1: going to try or not.
Speaker 3: It's usually through weeks. Something Over the weeks you'll you'll
Speaker 3: kind of see the pattern that develops. But the signs
Speaker 3: that I'm looking for would be criticism. The criticism and contempt, contemptuousness.
Speaker 3: Those are going to be the signs that I'm looking for.
Speaker 3: So do they believe the best in each other? Do
Speaker 3: they give each other the benefit of the doubt? Or
Speaker 3: are they highly critical of each other?
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 1: Can you tell that right away? When somebody walks into
Speaker 1: your office and says, okay, here's Tom and Lucy yep,
Speaker 1: and they start talking, can you tell immediately gestures, actions, thought,
Speaker 1: you know that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can tell by body language, how far are
Speaker 3: they just the where they're on the couch, so I
Speaker 3: always notice, okay, they're seated very closely together or they're not.
Speaker 3: I can also tell by, you know, just by the
Speaker 3: looks on their faces. I can tell by obviously what
Speaker 3: they say. Do they cut each other off? Or are
Speaker 3: they looking at each other in the eye. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of those types of.
Speaker 1: Okay, So if I roll is a big deal, that's contempt.
Speaker 6: That is.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so if if you and I are married and
Speaker 1: we're in your office, a therapist's office, and you start
Speaker 1: talking and I don't like what you have to say
Speaker 1: because you've heard it a million times before, and I
Speaker 1: start rolling my eyes. Does that mean that this couple's
Speaker 1: probably not going What is the percentage of that couple
Speaker 1: not making it?
Speaker 3: That's probably a pretty high percentage of that couple not
Speaker 3: making it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, what are the signs of a couple that
Speaker 1: will maybe make it?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 4: What are those?
Speaker 3: So those are going to be really I think it's
Speaker 3: going to be more about couples who do believe the
Speaker 3: best in each other. They do give each other the
Speaker 3: benefit of the doubt, and they're really curious about each
Speaker 3: other's world worldview. We call them love maps. They know
Speaker 3: each other's love maps really well. They know what makes
Speaker 3: their partner tick, They know what makes their partner happy.
Speaker 3: They go out of their way to do things right
Speaker 3: to make them happy, to feel loved, to feel accepted,
Speaker 3: to feel seen right. So it's really about empathy, having
Speaker 3: a lot of empathy for your partner, and when those
Speaker 3: when all of that is absent, when that goes away
Speaker 3: and it moves towards contemptuousness and criticism and defensiveness, that's
Speaker 3: when we know.
Speaker 4: What comensiveness seems like.
Speaker 1: Oh man, how can I how can I even get
Speaker 1: through to this person? Why are they? Why am I
Speaker 1: all of a sud that's an enemy number one? I
Speaker 1: mean I I just recently went through a break up myself,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't get easier as you get older. By
Speaker 1: the way, that's a news flash here. It's not it's
Speaker 1: not something that that is going to stop me from
Speaker 1: falling in love again either, because I mean, I'm a lover,
Speaker 1: not a fighter. And you want to pick, you want
Speaker 1: to pick people that you think are going to make it,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't always work, and sometimes you have to
Speaker 1: let somebody go. If you have these signs, and I
Speaker 1: can tell you we saw I saw most of them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're talking about contempt defensiveness.
Speaker 4: What's another one?
Speaker 3: Criticism? Criticism stone walling?
Speaker 4: Stonewall? Okay, what is stonewalling?
Speaker 3: Stone walling is when literally it's it's like you are
Speaker 3: talking to this person and they're they're either looking away
Speaker 3: from you, they're not responding to you, they are changing
Speaker 3: the subject on you, they're invalidating you in some way. Okay,
Speaker 3: it's almost as if you didn't say anything at all.
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, So if I'm walk into a room and
Speaker 1: he never did this, Thank God, because that's awful because
Speaker 1: if you're walking into a room and you're trying to
Speaker 1: talk and they're on their phone and they don't even
Speaker 1: look up, that's stonewalling. Five one, three, seven, four, nine,
Speaker 1: seven thousand. We really want this to be interactive. The
Speaker 1: question is have you ever come close to separating or
Speaker 1: divorcing and decided to stick with it?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: So it's the opposite of what's going on with Nicole
Speaker 1: Kidman and Keith Urban.
Speaker 4: Keith Urban, it looks like he's completely done.
Speaker 1: He's already gotten a house, they've they've signed, they've filed,
Speaker 1: she's filed for divorce and things like that.
Speaker 4: How does that happen? I mean, it doesn't look like.
Speaker 1: There would be any kind of counseling, or maybe they
Speaker 1: have because it's so public now and they knew the
Speaker 1: moment it was going public that people are going to dissect.
Speaker 1: They're going to go and look at old videos and
Speaker 1: old interviews, and that's what's happening. Everyone's trying to figure out.
Speaker 1: Is he, you know, having an affair with his guitarist.
Speaker 1: That's what a lot of people are talking about. So
Speaker 1: is there a time that you and your partner thought yeah,
Speaker 1: it's time for us to break up, but let's just
Speaker 1: give it one more try and then it worked out
Speaker 1: five one, three, seven, four nine, seven thousand, one eight
Speaker 1: hundred the big one. Donnade here on a Saturday night
Speaker 1: with doctor Wes, Licensed Marriage Family Therapist lmft as Cerling
Speaker 1: likes to call you so. In other words, if if
Speaker 1: you're seeing these couples in the office and you can
Speaker 1: tell that, wow, this is either going to be a
Speaker 1: really high climb for these couples, do you tell them that.
Speaker 4: Listen, you guys have some work to do. How honest
Speaker 4: are you?
Speaker 3: I'm very honest. I'll say the relationship that you all
Speaker 3: have is dead. Wow, it's dead. There's no I mean,
Speaker 3: so much has happened. Yeah, there's no coming back from it.
Speaker 3: The question now is do we work to create a
Speaker 3: new relationship or do I help you all to in this? Well, so.
Speaker 1: Who responds to that more the wife or the husband
Speaker 1: or the you know which partner is is the one
Speaker 1: that says, all right, I agree with doctor Wes, this
Speaker 1: is not this is not working.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's usually a leaning out partner. There's usually one
Speaker 3: partner who is there just to check the box. They're
Speaker 3: there just to say at least we tried therapy, and
Speaker 3: so they're the ones that usually feel validated by that. Actually,
Speaker 3: I find a lot of my couples feel validated when
Speaker 3: I say that, because if they've already been feeling it anyway,
Speaker 3: that this relationship is over, but maybe they've been scared
Speaker 3: to say that just outright say it, so when I
Speaker 3: say it, but then I give them the hope that
Speaker 3: we know from science how to create. We know the
Speaker 3: science of love, so we know the way to help
Speaker 3: guide you towards a new relationship if they want it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot of work, it can be, but
Speaker 1: it can be rewarding. Let's go to the phone with Steve.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pick this up. Oh Steve, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I wasn't fast enough. Oh no, here you are. I'm sorry, Steve.
Speaker 1: Are you there?
Speaker 2: Hi?
Speaker 4: Seeve from Middletown. Are you there?
Speaker 7: Yeah? Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: Donna Dye and doctor Wes So, have you come close
Speaker 1: to separating or divorcing your partner and decided to stick
Speaker 1: with it?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 8: But I listened to this scenario and I'm like, man,
Speaker 8: are people really that crazy? If somebody is that bad
Speaker 8: for you.
Speaker 6: You don't know that, like six months before, a year before.
Speaker 4: Are you in a relationship right now?
Speaker 8: Steve thirty years the same moment.
Speaker 4: Okay, that is unbelievable.
Speaker 6: I never had that thought.
Speaker 8: Never had that thought. No, anybody that ever has that thought, like, hey,
Speaker 8: something might be wrong, you're going the wrong direction.
Speaker 1: Well, I agree with you, but like there are there
Speaker 1: are times like we're going to get more into this too.
Speaker 1: But if there is a person that's lonely and they
Speaker 1: want companionship, but they see red flags and they're not
Speaker 1: quite sure this person is going to be the perfect
Speaker 1: person for me, but they're good for now, lea.
Speaker 7: Leave, leave, just get away.
Speaker 8: If it's not perfect, why would you just stick around?
Speaker 8: It's with anything in life. If it's not perfect, why
Speaker 8: wouldn't you Why would you stick around the situation you
Speaker 8: were questionable about in anything, whether you're gambling, drinking, whatever
Speaker 8: you're doing in life, of it feels like, hey, it
Speaker 8: might not be right, just walk away.
Speaker 4: Early, listen. I mean you must be.
Speaker 1: He's the bravest person planet see because no.
Speaker 6: I'm honest.
Speaker 8: I'm honest, and I know most people aren't honest, but
Speaker 8: I am. If it's not right, just walk away. Hey,
Speaker 8: you know, you know, you know, you might pretend and
Speaker 8: make up scenarios in your mind like oh maybe it
Speaker 8: was just this, maybe she was just kissing, but she
Speaker 8: was really underneath whatever. But hey, yeah, you know as
Speaker 8: a man, as a man, you know, at least I do.
Speaker 4: Is he making sense to Yes? Absolutely so.
Speaker 1: So. I mean I just feel like it's not that
Speaker 1: easy to just leave if you if you have kids, Steve.
Speaker 8: Well, that's the scenario you have to think about, and
Speaker 8: you're like, hey, I'm taking them, or I'm going to
Speaker 8: be a part time to ad, which most people don't
Speaker 8: want to be because it never works out very good
Speaker 8: for that person. But that's stuff I never thought about
Speaker 8: that scenario.
Speaker 7: You asked me a question. I wasn't ready for it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it looks that's my job.
Speaker 6: No, you did good.
Speaker 8: But in your mind, you got to know when you
Speaker 8: get into something, it's like, hey, it's going to work.
Speaker 6: It's not going to work.
Speaker 8: You know, most people know, I feel like and stay,
Speaker 8: pretend and try different things or whatever. And some people
Speaker 8: live through disasters for children, which turns out bad for
Speaker 8: the kids.
Speaker 7: Obviously.
Speaker 8: Most of the time, there.
Speaker 1: Is what's the divorce rate right now, doctor Wes, would
Speaker 1: you say it's over fifty percent? And then they say
Speaker 1: that there's another twenty percent that are staying together because
Speaker 1: of money and the kids, so they're not happy. So
Speaker 1: the race of happy co Yeah, those are the statistics one.
Speaker 8: Hundred years from now. Who's going to tie your shoes?
Speaker 7: You know what I mean?
Speaker 8: Hey, it doesn't matter. You just got to do what
Speaker 8: makes you good now because we don't have we're all
Speaker 8: limited on this art, you know that. But just be
Speaker 8: happy and if you're not happy, just move on quickly
Speaker 8: because you're wasting your time. Six months a year, Hey,
Speaker 8: that half your life.
Speaker 6: Depending on what's going on.
Speaker 7: We never know.
Speaker 4: I couldn't agree with you more.
Speaker 1: And I love the fact that you're saying this in
Speaker 1: a thirty year marriage.
Speaker 4: So I love that.
Speaker 8: Steveey, Oh no, no, Hey, that's the only person I
Speaker 8: wanted to be with. And if it went south twenty
Speaker 8: five years ago, twenty eight years ago, six months ago,
Speaker 8: I don't walk away.
Speaker 6: I still will look.
Speaker 8: I'm good looking, I can.
Speaker 1: Still find Hey, I love it.
Speaker 8: I'm okay, I'm happy. I don't want nothing else, and hey,
Speaker 8: I appreciate you guys.
Speaker 6: Show I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 1: This is the first night now and you're our first caller,
Speaker 1: So thanks so much, Steve. I appreciate it. Thanks, have
Speaker 1: a good night. Oh I hung up on him. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree with Steve. And there's and there's plenty of
Speaker 1: times where you know that it's wrong. He's right, You
Speaker 1: know that it's wrong, and you should walk away. There
Speaker 1: are just sometimes you just are afraid to do that.
Speaker 3: It's a trauma bond.
Speaker 4: Is that what it is?
Speaker 3: A lot of times it's a trauma bond. You have
Speaker 3: bonded through each of you came with your own wounds
Speaker 3: and you became each other's savior, each other's validating source,
Speaker 3: source of validation and affirmation. And whether you know it's
Speaker 3: bad or not, it's you have to have it.
Speaker 1: Well what if you just what if you're you know,
Speaker 1: because listen, I happen to agree with Steve. There were
Speaker 1: times where I should have left my marriage. I was
Speaker 1: married for sixteen years. Happily fourteen two years prior I
Speaker 1: should have left that relationship and we're still friends. So
Speaker 1: like everything's good and it ended up the way that
Speaker 1: it should. But I knew two years prior that this
Speaker 1: was definitely not working and I need to walk away.
Speaker 1: He went left and I went right, and it was
Speaker 1: it was just a matter of But.
Speaker 4: It was sad.
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to break up with somebody. It's
Speaker 1: hard to let somebody go. It is not easy, especially
Speaker 1: when you're this why I have so much compassion for
Speaker 1: Nicole Kidman who seems devastated.
Speaker 4: And Keith Urban looks like he's already moving on.
Speaker 1: He's got his own house, he's you know, and that's
Speaker 1: devastating to see.
Speaker 3: Sure, so.
Speaker 4: You know, we're going to talk about letting go.
Speaker 1: But honestly, if it was as easy as Steve made it,
Speaker 1: and just if you're not happy, then be gone.
Speaker 4: It's not that easy.
Speaker 3: No, No, some people are able to And I'm not
Speaker 3: talking about Steve. I'm talking about just generally. I see
Speaker 3: in my practice that some people can just compartmentalize really well,
Speaker 3: they can disassociate really well, and they just they just
Speaker 3: stuff it. They just put it in the closet, stuff it,
Speaker 3: move on to the next person.
Speaker 1: And then the and then you become we'll move on
Speaker 1: to the next person. So they stuff it. They don't
Speaker 1: learn that's right. Then they marry this or together with
Speaker 1: somebody that's exactly like the person they.
Speaker 3: Left right right, Yeah, they don't do their own work.
Speaker 3: And that's that is where you ask about couples that
Speaker 3: can I tell if they're going to make it or not?
Speaker 3: I ask are they willing to do their own work?
Speaker 3: Are they willing to do individual therapy? And if they are,
Speaker 3: that increases the likelihood of success in couples therapy in
Speaker 3: my opinion.
Speaker 1: And is it usually one out of the two or yeah,
Speaker 1: because it's usually one that's fighting for it and the
Speaker 1: other one's like, I'm already done. I'm going here because
Speaker 1: we've been together for a while, but I've already resigned.
Speaker 1: And isn't that the case that one of the person,
Speaker 1: one of the people in the in the partnership has
Speaker 1: given up before the other one?
Speaker 3: M h Yeah.
Speaker 1: And if somebody just decides that no, this isn't working
Speaker 1: for me anymore. After they get to that point, it's
Speaker 1: hard to come back from that. Yeah, Okay, I mean
Speaker 1: let's go, Oh, let's go quickly to Mark. I think
Speaker 1: we're on. Let's grab Mark from Florence real quick.
Speaker 4: Mark Hay, how are you You're on? With Donna d
Speaker 4: and doctor.
Speaker 9: Wes Hey, Hello, guys. I just want to say hello there. Hey,
Speaker 9: I just want to say quickly if I could please that,
Speaker 9: uh hey that in regards that last caller, Now, hey,
Speaker 9: he might have been one hundred. He might have he
Speaker 9: might have done what he said he you know, would
Speaker 9: do and still be that way. The only thing I
Speaker 9: want to say to that is I used to criticize
Speaker 9: my dad for thirty five years. He was always going
Speaker 9: to leave his wife, but he never did. And I
Speaker 9: remember thinking what a what it was? You know, even
Speaker 9: though I love him, he's my dad, but I always thought, oh,
Speaker 9: come on, hey. And then so then when I got
Speaker 9: in a relationship, then I learned it's not that easy.
Speaker 9: And Donna, I just agree with you when you say
Speaker 9: it's not that easy. That's the same thing. Oh it
Speaker 9: was easy to say, but not so easy to do it. Hey.
Speaker 9: Maybe and again maybe Steve would he could carried through it. Maybe,
Speaker 9: but I just I just know for myself, Oh, I
Speaker 9: was a big talker. I was good at talking, but
Speaker 9: when it came down to it, not so much.
Speaker 1: It's smart, thank you, because I'm like, am I crazy
Speaker 1: or what?
Speaker 4: Because Steve was just saying, you just leave, you just
Speaker 4: walk away. Is that easy? You're not happy? You go.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean for some people maybe, but for most
Speaker 1: of us it's painful.
Speaker 9: Well hey, yeah, no, I'm sorry, go ahead, sir.
Speaker 7: I didn't mean to rupt you, No.
Speaker 3: No, I was just going to say some people have
Speaker 3: already morened the loss of their relationship, and they are
Speaker 3: that they've already gone through the grieving process before they
Speaker 3: ever decide to leave their relationship. So that could be
Speaker 3: a possibility.
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, that that is.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like mourning, something like the death of
Speaker 1: the death of a relationship. People can go through mourning
Speaker 1: before the other one even knows what's happening.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Mark, thanks saying did you wanted to say something?
Speaker 1: One quick question? We're up against the wall thirty.
Speaker 9: Seconds, Yeah, Donna, just real quick if I could. Hey,
Speaker 9: and it's not only that it is, I mean a
Speaker 9: couple of one of the women was kind of on
Speaker 9: the crazy side. I'm thinking, what kind of like, this
Speaker 9: is not going to be pretty. It's going to be.
Speaker 6: It's going to be.
Speaker 9: It's going to be so that the disruption. Yeah is so, Hey, guys,
Speaker 9: go on your show.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Mark for Colin so Saturday Night.
Speaker 1: It's Dona D Doctor West. We're coming coming up. We're
Speaker 1: going to talk about the trust thing. I have a
Speaker 1: story of what happened with my friend. She lost trust
Speaker 1: and can you build that trust back in a relationship.
Speaker 1: Donna D Doctor West. Saturday Night, seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati,
Speaker 1: Saturday Night, Hundreck WLW Donna D with Doctor Wes. So,
Speaker 1: do you have trust issues because of an X? So?
Speaker 1: Doctor Wes and I were talking about when couples should
Speaker 1: call it quits, when there's enough trust and space in
Speaker 1: a relationship that you should try and work it out.
Speaker 1: There's definitely times where you should work it out, but
Speaker 1: there's also times to let toxic people go. And you
Speaker 1: were talking about the four pillar pillars of basically when
Speaker 1: you know that as a as a couple's counselor right
Speaker 1: when you know that these couples are not going to
Speaker 1: work it out, can you go over those again?
Speaker 3: Yes? So it's criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling.
Speaker 1: Okay, So, and we talked about it a little bit
Speaker 1: off air. You think contempt is probably the worst.
Speaker 3: Contempt is the biggest predictor of separation or divorce.
Speaker 4: And can you describe contempt.
Speaker 3: Contempt as where you literally you always it's like having
Speaker 3: negative sentiment override. You're always thinking negative, You're always expecting
Speaker 3: the worst in the person. You don't believe in the person.
Speaker 3: You're you're you're just there they go again that you
Speaker 3: know they're always that way. Yeah, I roll you, yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it's the it's it's believing the worst in your partner.
Speaker 3: You've lost your faith in them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's a good time to say, I can't
Speaker 1: be around this person anymore because they don't see the
Speaker 1: good in me anymore. And stonewalling is awful because if
Speaker 1: you're going in and you're trying to connect a bid
Speaker 1: for connection and go in there and you talk to
Speaker 1: your partner and they don't get off their phone, yep.
Speaker 1: And maybe you're talking to your husband and you'll say, listen,
Speaker 1: what you did earlier, I just don't feel connected to you.
Speaker 1: Can we have a conversation and he ignores you and
Speaker 1: he'll stay on his phone or vice versa. The woman
Speaker 1: can do this too, that's stonewalling.
Speaker 3: Stonewalling is so hurtful because it is a total invalidation
Speaker 3: of what you're feeling when you're reaching for your partner
Speaker 3: and they just they just act like they don't hear you,
Speaker 3: or they change the subject. It completely invalidates your feelings,
Speaker 3: your thinking right, and it's very destructive for someone in
Speaker 3: a relationship.
Speaker 1: You know, I was married happily for fourteen out of
Speaker 1: the sixteen years, and my husband and I had a
Speaker 1: great relationship and it went downhill. When it went downhill,
Speaker 1: went down pretty fast. And I remember feeling so alone
Speaker 1: when I was laying next to them in bed, and
Speaker 1: I thought I would rather be on my own and
Speaker 1: feeling alone in my own bed with nobody there, than
Speaker 1: having that feeling of being with somebody that doesn't care
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking, doesn't listen, doesn't validate me, doesn't doesn't
Speaker 1: appreciate my bids for connections, right, And that's what was happening.
Speaker 1: It was I can tell you there were plenty of
Speaker 1: stuff I did wrong in the relationship too. This is
Speaker 1: not what's I died, But when it comes to stonewalling
Speaker 1: and contempt, he had some of that and it felt terrible. Now,
Speaker 1: we know, trust, when you when you lose trust, that's
Speaker 1: a whole another ballgame. Right, So if somebody doesn't trust
Speaker 1: their partner, that's a pretty good sign that that that
Speaker 1: that the relationship might be over right. So I have
Speaker 1: a friend and this is a small they've been dating for,
Speaker 1: you know, about a year or so, and she thought
Speaker 1: he was texting another woman and she didn't say anything,
Speaker 1: and she was upset all night, and the next day
Speaker 1: she just couldn't take it anymore and she had to
Speaker 1: say something to him.
Speaker 4: And he was receptive that day. And why would you
Speaker 4: think that? No, of course not. I mean, of course
Speaker 4: I love you.
Speaker 1: I would don't even know what you're talking about, don't
Speaker 1: even know the moment you're No.
Speaker 4: I didn't text anybody else but this.
Speaker 1: The day after, he thought about it, and he didn't
Speaker 1: liked being questioned like that, and he was like, this
Speaker 1: is the kind of stuff that makes me want to run.
Speaker 1: And they've worked it out, but I thought, isn't that
Speaker 1: the stuff you need to be saying to your partner
Speaker 1: and discussing those things five one, three, seven, four nine
Speaker 1: seven thousand. It's done a D and doctor Wes. We
Speaker 1: want this to be interactive, so please call. Do you
Speaker 1: have trust issues? Have you ever regretted trusting somebody and
Speaker 1: knowing within your fiber and your being that you shouldn't
Speaker 1: have done it, and you stayed with him anyway and
Speaker 1: you got burned. Has that ever happened to you or
Speaker 1: do you? Do you have trust issues now because of
Speaker 1: an X five one, three, seven four, nine, seven thousand,
Speaker 1: eight hundred, the big one, Doctor Wes, what do you say?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think that the reason why uh number one to
Speaker 3: answer your question. It should be okay to ask, hey,
Speaker 3: I noticed that you were texting, and I'm just curious.
Speaker 3: It should be okay to be vulnerable and to say, hey,
Speaker 3: was that who was that? Right? Yeah? That if you
Speaker 3: have nothing to hide, why would you be defensive about that?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 3: So I think that that's a part of building that
Speaker 3: secure base in a relationship. Right, You have to have security,
Speaker 3: you have to have a base.
Speaker 1: So so, doctor Wes, if you and I were dating, right,
Speaker 1: and and you said you said that to me, Donna,
Speaker 1: I feel like you were texting somebody.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't want to feel that way, but I do.
Speaker 1: And I got to get over this. Can you tell
Speaker 1: me if you were. I'm sorry if this is going
Speaker 1: to be making you feel weird, but I have to
Speaker 1: I have to talk this through. And I would say no,
Speaker 1: I was not no. If I wasn't, no, of course not.
Speaker 1: And if you said can I see your phone? My
Speaker 1: answer would be yes, you can see my phone, But
Speaker 1: I don't know what road that would take us down
Speaker 1: in this relationship. Now you're asking me, and I'm telling you,
Speaker 1: and you have to trust me on that. Mm hmm,
Speaker 1: Yes you can see my phone. But after I'm telling
Speaker 1: you this, do you still want to? And if they
Speaker 1: say yes, what does that look like?
Speaker 3: If they say yes, that that you can continue?
Speaker 4: If they say yes, I still want to see your phone?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that that. That's when I'm trying to
Speaker 3: help couples rebuild trust after an affair. I say complete
Speaker 3: transparency on the phones.
Speaker 1: So anytime somebody wants to feel like, I have autonomy
Speaker 1: to see what you're doing because you've already you've already
Speaker 1: broken my trust. And if we're trying to build this,
Speaker 1: I have to be able to How does that work?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: How does it work? Does that trust ever come back fully?
Speaker 3: If the person is open and if they are non
Speaker 3: defensive non So that's the key part is they have
Speaker 3: to be I have couples do what's called an ownership letter,
Speaker 3: and they own their behavior. They own exactly what set
Speaker 3: them up for the infidelity or the affair. And then
Speaker 3: I say, yes, you have to be completely non defensive.
Speaker 3: You have wounded your partner. You've got to own that.
Speaker 3: And if they have a moment in time where they're
Speaker 3: insecure and they want to see your phone, if you
Speaker 3: don't allow that to happen, then you're just basically saying, uh,
Speaker 3: to your partner that their feelings don't matter, that the
Speaker 3: hurt doesn't matter anymore.
Speaker 1: So does that mean that does that mean that you
Speaker 1: should give your passcode to your to your partner?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I should.
Speaker 1: You should somebody give their passcode anyway? I mean that
Speaker 1: is that? Is that a must in a relationship? Should
Speaker 1: I say, oh, yeah, here's my phone, here's my pass code.
Speaker 4: I'm with you. I should be trusting you.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that past codes couples. I have couples
Speaker 3: that share emails, they look at each other's emails. They yeah,
Speaker 3: why not? What do you have to hide? Right? I
Speaker 3: think that that creates security and a secure base in
Speaker 3: a relationship. Now, there could be some people who say, I,
Speaker 3: that's an invasion of my privacy and you can negotiate that.
Speaker 3: You can negotiate it but.
Speaker 1: So what if someone says, look, I don't want to
Speaker 1: have this, She's going to question me on everything, right
Speaker 1: she if I give her my passcode, she's going to
Speaker 1: look at things that happened four years ago.
Speaker 3: Or so that's an issue that she needs to work on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, at that point, what can she do to help
Speaker 1: herself and work on that? Because obviously there's a trust issue.
Speaker 1: So what can she do if she wants to stay
Speaker 1: with this guy and build.
Speaker 3: She's got to work on the wounded part of herself
Speaker 3: and she's got to be able to do some I
Speaker 3: would recommend individual therapy, yeah, right, to help work on
Speaker 3: healing that part of her. But she also has to
Speaker 3: build some inner security, some inner trust that she can
Speaker 3: depend on herself, that she doesn't have to depend on
Speaker 3: her partner.
Speaker 1: Do you think do you think taking personal responsibility? Because
Speaker 1: it listen, I might get in trouble for saying this,
Speaker 1: but I feel this way one hundred percent. It does
Speaker 1: take two people in a relationship for someone to cheat,
Speaker 1: because and that may sound terrible, but I feel like
Speaker 1: happy people don't go and cheat on other people. It's rare,
Speaker 1: it does happen. It does happen. But if you're happy
Speaker 1: in a relationship and you're good. Usually people don't stray.
Speaker 1: It's you know, after the three or four or five
Speaker 1: year that maybe things you let your guard down a
Speaker 1: little bit, you're not as loving to each other, you're
Speaker 1: not as kind, Maybe can temp rolls in, maybe you know,
Speaker 1: you know, some of the other things that you talk about,
Speaker 1: stone walling and stuff. And then if somebody's not getting
Speaker 1: love and appreciated in a relationship, they're gonna find it
Speaker 1: someplace else.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: So taking personal responsibility, even if you're not the one
Speaker 1: that cheated, of how the relationship went awry.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: Is that important? That's very important on both sides. Obviously
Speaker 1: the one that cheated should you know, obviously get the
Speaker 1: majority of it.
Speaker 4: I think, But like.
Speaker 3: I do a relationship autopsy after that's what I call it.
Speaker 3: Let's look at what happened, and let's look at the
Speaker 3: vulnerabilities and affairs. Affairs occur because it allows somebody to
Speaker 3: get back in touch with who they are. Right, it's
Speaker 3: not usually about the partner that they're cheating with. It's
Speaker 3: about the experience of how they feel about themselves when
Speaker 3: they're with that person.
Speaker 4: So when right I agree with that.
Speaker 1: And when and when there's trust issues and they're trying
Speaker 1: to build back, what is the percentage of couples that
Speaker 1: can get through that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I don't have an exact percentage, but I
Speaker 3: would say that it's if I had to guess, it's
Speaker 3: fit at least with the couples that you Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: about fifty to fifty. Some some do, some don't. And
Speaker 3: it's really based on how humility. There has to be
Speaker 3: humility and there has to be ownership. If I have
Speaker 3: a couple that if I have somebody that comes in
Speaker 3: and has cheated and they start giving me all the
Speaker 3: reasons why they cheated and they feel entitled to the
Speaker 3: fact that they cheated, that's not going to work. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's not going to work.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: They're blinded by their needs and they're feeling like they
Speaker 3: need to validate themselves. If they come in and they
Speaker 3: have there they're humble and they are willing to do
Speaker 3: the work, and they're willing to be completely transparent and
Speaker 3: open with their partner, then I think trust can be rebuilt,
Speaker 3: but it has to go slow, it has to be consistent,
Speaker 3: and there's got to be check ins every single day.
Speaker 1: You know, I like the check ins, like how you're
Speaker 1: doing Yeah, I mean am I am i? Am I
Speaker 1: doing a good job? Or how you know, do you
Speaker 1: feel more comfortable?
Speaker 4: Am I listening? Do you feel heard?
Speaker 1: Those types of things, because trust issues are not just
Speaker 1: about cheating either. They're about like if you've disrespected somebody
Speaker 1: in public, right and and you don't feel like your
Speaker 1: partner has your back anymore, It's like, how did I
Speaker 1: become enemy number one with you?
Speaker 4: Why?
Speaker 1: Because that's a big trust issue. He doesn't have my back.
Speaker 1: I think having someone's back in a relationship is really
Speaker 1: really important.
Speaker 4: It's underrated. Where would you score.
Speaker 3: That that's very high having someone's back.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. That's part of when we talked earlier about what
Speaker 3: makes successful couple's work, that's exactly part of it is
Speaker 3: that they have each other's back. They believe the best
Speaker 3: in each other. They are going to there each other's cheerleader,
Speaker 3: right right.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't mean that you can't argue, and it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you're not going to be frustrated with
Speaker 1: each other and things like that, but do it in
Speaker 1: the privacy of your home.
Speaker 4: Don't get into an argument.
Speaker 1: Hopefully not in front of a group of people and
Speaker 1: embarrass each other. Yeah, right, Having each other's back is
Speaker 1: also saying, listen, let's not do this now we're in public.
Speaker 1: Let's go back and we'll talk about I'm so sorry
Speaker 1: that you're feeling this way right now.
Speaker 3: Or what you're doing by what you just said is
Speaker 3: you're acknowledging what happened, You're validating the emotion, and you're
Speaker 3: setting the expectation that we're going to come back and
Speaker 3: talk about it. Successful couples make it because they navigate
Speaker 3: what's called the repair attempt. They have a successful repair attempt,
Speaker 3: they come back to it, they talk about it. The
Speaker 3: couples that don't make it just sweep it under the rug.
Speaker 3: They ignore it, but they don't talk about it.
Speaker 1: Right, a successful repair attempt, that's right, What does tell
Speaker 1: me what that looks like?
Speaker 3: So to me an example, yeah, so that would be
Speaker 3: kind of like what you just did. But hey, I
Speaker 3: want to talk about what happened and when this happened,
Speaker 3: and using eye language is so important. When when this happened,
Speaker 3: when this disagreement happened, I felt hurt. I felt hurt
Speaker 3: because I felt misunderstood. I felt it really hit a
Speaker 3: raw spot within me, right, I didn't know if you
Speaker 3: were there for me or not, and I really needed
Speaker 3: to know that you were there for me in that moment.
Speaker 3: And so what I'm asking for is in the future,
Speaker 3: is is can you can we show up for each
Speaker 3: other together? So you're acknowledging the situation, you're acknowledging your feelings,
Speaker 3: and you're making your you're requesting a making a request
Speaker 3: in a positive way, not a negative way. It's a
Speaker 3: positive need that you're requesting. Can we show up for
Speaker 3: each other?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, instead of saying you're always talking about me
Speaker 1: and you know, can we discuss this at home and
Speaker 1: let's be there for each other. Let's look at each
Speaker 1: other in the most positive light. I'm giving you the
Speaker 1: benefit of the now. I know you didn't mean to
Speaker 1: embarrass me. It happens sometimes, right, Can we talk about
Speaker 1: like not doing that again because I'm embarrassed or I've
Speaker 1: had this or that. Man, I wish we could all
Speaker 1: just be like Steve who has it so easy. Right,
Speaker 1: not happy? You're not happy, then you just walk away.
Speaker 1: So coming up, and this has been such a great conversation,
Speaker 1: we do want to I know there were three calls
Speaker 1: and I don't know how come they hung up. And
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry if I didn't get back to you
Speaker 1: in time because I'm not used to the phone yet.
Speaker 1: But I'm getting it. If I went three, seven, four hundred,
Speaker 1: the big one. We want this conversation to be very interactive. Donna, Dee,
Speaker 1: Doctor Wes. It's Saturday night, coming back. We are going
Speaker 1: to talk about how do you know you found your soulmate?
Speaker 1: This is going to be really good and there's going
Speaker 1: to be three green flags on relationships.
Speaker 4: We're talking about the.
Speaker 1: Tough stuff on when when you should leave a relationship,
Speaker 1: and there is a time when you need to say,
Speaker 1: even if it's you're not planning on getting a divorced,
Speaker 1: you're just separating yourselves because what you have been doing
Speaker 1: is not working right. So you just you literally say,
Speaker 1: I'm changing the situation right now. I don't know what
Speaker 1: happens to us in a month or two, but for
Speaker 1: right now, I am getting away from the contempt. I'm
Speaker 1: getting away from the stone walling. I'm getting away from
Speaker 1: the defensiveness. I'm getting away from what am I missing?
Speaker 1: Criticism that's right, I don't want to be criticized I
Speaker 1: feel like everything I say is not working and you're
Speaker 1: defensive and we can't talk about it. That's the time
Speaker 1: when you say, all right, we got to split up
Speaker 1: for a second. I'll go to my sisters, I'll go
Speaker 1: to my mother's, I'll go to my whatever, and just
Speaker 1: change the scenario.
Speaker 3: Then you have the repair attempt. You got to come
Speaker 3: back and have the repair attempt, right.
Speaker 1: So and so when we come back, we're going to
Speaker 1: tell a little bit more about this, and then how
Speaker 1: do you know when you find your soulmate?
Speaker 4: And this is really, really good. I'm very excited to
Speaker 4: talk about that.
Speaker 1: Five one, three Sember ninety seven thousand, Dona d Doctor West,
Speaker 1: Saturday Night on seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati. Why we want
Speaker 1: people to be invested in looking up and knowing how
Speaker 1: many I mean, look at the stars, look at.
Speaker 3: The moon, live at the sun.
Speaker 1: It's just absolutely gorgeous, and it reminds us of how
Speaker 1: small we actually are. And why do we take ourselves
Speaker 1: so seriously? Yep, I mean seriously, why can't we just
Speaker 1: be happy and and love our lives. And if we
Speaker 1: don't love our lives, change it and tell the people
Speaker 1: that we do love in our lives.
Speaker 4: That we love them.
Speaker 3: Why is that so hard?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: So, we've been talking about rebuilding trust in a relationship
Speaker 1: and is that possible? A friend of mine is going
Speaker 1: through that right now in a relationship. It takes wes,
Speaker 1: we were talking talking about it. It can't just be
Speaker 1: one person trying to rebuild trust. It has It takes
Speaker 1: two to repair a relationship. And and and and if
Speaker 1: there's somebody that's half heartedly in it, what are the
Speaker 1: chances that's.
Speaker 3: Going to happen? Mm hmm, Now no, it's the chances
Speaker 3: are very low that that that's going to happen.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 3: And so really we're talking about I have a lot
Speaker 3: of thoughts on this actually, but it's a secure base.
Speaker 3: You're gonna hear me talk a lot about that about
Speaker 3: a relationship. To rebuild trust, you have to rebuild your
Speaker 3: secure base. And that means that means that you can
Speaker 3: be you can let your guard down, you can breathe
Speaker 3: a little easier, you can know that you're safe with
Speaker 3: this person, right, that you've got security. It's that that
Speaker 3: they've got your back. Like what you've said before, and.
Speaker 1: Would you say checking in with your partner multiple times
Speaker 1: on it's okay?
Speaker 4: If you want to talk.
Speaker 1: I'm here, I'm you know, I'm I'm going to be
Speaker 1: down the street, and you know, text me as much
Speaker 1: as you want. I know, during this time, we need
Speaker 1: to rebuild this and repair this. I mean why would
Speaker 1: why would? Because we've talked about this earlier. This will
Speaker 1: bring this back back for a second, because I think
Speaker 1: it's important. Why would somebody be half in anyway?
Speaker 7: Why?
Speaker 4: Why?
Speaker 1: If you have all this work to do to repair
Speaker 1: the relationship, why is it that somebody would say, Okay,
Speaker 1: I am, I'm going to do it, but I don't
Speaker 1: think this is going to work.
Speaker 3: Fear. Fear, Yeah, I think it's fear.
Speaker 1: You know, this relationship stuff. This is why we're talking
Speaker 1: about it. Five one three seven, four hundred the Big One.
Speaker 4: Give us a call. We want to talk to you.
Speaker 1: We want to hear about your your trust issues too,
Speaker 1: because if you have successfully repaired a relationship, please call
Speaker 1: us and tell us about it, because that's kind of
Speaker 1: a big deal and the odds of that happening are
Speaker 1: fairly slim, especially if you've been cheated on or something.
Speaker 1: But trust issues can go way deeper than at then
Speaker 1: that as well. Five one three ninety seven thousand. We
Speaker 1: do have run on but I do want Joe, I
Speaker 1: want to play this clip. I listened to this guy.
Speaker 1: This was really funny. This girl asked this therapist, how
Speaker 1: do you know when you found your soul meat, how do.
Speaker 3: You know when you found the one?
Speaker 10: Well, you'll find the right one faster if you say
Speaker 10: no to the wrong one quicker woo. So you have
Speaker 10: to get good at saying no at the same time
Speaker 10: as you're creating opportunities, because opportunities are not just going
Speaker 10: to bring you more of a chance that you meet
Speaker 10: the right person. They're also going to bring you more
Speaker 10: of the wrong people. And you're going to have to
Speaker 10: get very good at disqualifying people along the way. If
Speaker 10: the right person for you is number fifteen, it's a
Speaker 10: crude way of looking at it. But if they're number
Speaker 10: fifteen and you need to get through the next fourteen, well,
Speaker 10: if you spend three years on each one of these,
Speaker 10: you may never get.
Speaker 6: To this person.
Speaker 10: But if you can zip through those fourteen a lot faster,
Speaker 10: you're going to get to fifteen at a completely different rate.
Speaker 10: So that proactivity and the ability to say no faster
Speaker 10: two big ones.
Speaker 3: If you want to find love faster.
Speaker 4: Isn't that amazing?
Speaker 9: Right?
Speaker 1: So I actually, and Ron, We're going to get to
Speaker 1: you in just a second. I actually am somebody that
Speaker 1: knows when I need to get out of a relationship,
Speaker 1: but don't do it like I've to do it.
Speaker 4: That three year thing.
Speaker 1: I'm getting better at it. Okay, I'm getting better at it,
Speaker 1: but that three year thing is a real thing for me.
Speaker 1: That's why I even played the clip because it hit home.
Speaker 1: It hit so home to me because I have I
Speaker 1: don't want to say wasted, because I feel like every
Speaker 1: relationship is important to me. But I have to get
Speaker 1: to my fifteen and I still have probably ten more
Speaker 1: to go, or six at least nine more to go.
Speaker 4: And if I'm spending three years.
Speaker 1: Finding spending time with somebody who's half in, right, just
Speaker 1: like the trust issue, if you've broken trust and you say,
Speaker 1: all right, I still love you, we can repair it.
Speaker 1: If we're both in and you've got somebody that's halfway in,
Speaker 1: why am I going to do that to myself? So
Speaker 1: why is it so hard to let go? We're going
Speaker 1: to get to the phones real quick. Hey, Ron in Springboro,
Speaker 1: it's Donnade and doctor West. You're on seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 1: Thanks for calling in.
Speaker 6: What's up hey, great show, very interesting, Thank you. Well,
Speaker 6: I guess, but in my case, and I guess in
Speaker 6: a lot of cases, marrying some well, going out with
Speaker 6: someone been marrying now, and there's a big age difference.
Speaker 6: Like my ex wife was twelve years younger than me.
Speaker 6: I didn't get married till late in life. I was
Speaker 6: thirty six, she was twenty four. First sixteen years was
Speaker 6: great about age thirty eight for her. She started hanging
Speaker 6: out with people younger than her.
Speaker 4: Oh boy, and that made you a real big difference
Speaker 4: in age.
Speaker 6: Then, yes, we would try to double date and I
Speaker 6: would have nothing in common with these people, and it
Speaker 6: was just you know about hitting bled a divorce, and
Speaker 6: I just wonder how much how many times that plays
Speaker 6: a factor in the age difference.
Speaker 1: That's a good question, doctor West. Do you see that often?
Speaker 1: I mean, ron, I will tell you this that happened
Speaker 1: to me. So I was I was just getting divorced
Speaker 1: and I met this guy. I was thirty nine and
Speaker 1: he was twenty nine, and I was like, there's no way,
Speaker 1: there's no way. And then his brother, who was very
Speaker 1: close to him, was twenty four and his girlfriend was twenty,
Speaker 1: so the four of us used to I just I
Speaker 1: had the same exact thing happened. So the four of
Speaker 1: us would go out, and I really liked them all
Speaker 1: very very much, and I had so much fun with him.
Speaker 1: But in the back of my mind, I'm like, what
Speaker 1: am I doing? What am I doing here? I'm like
Speaker 1: the oldest person. I could be her mother. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is so weird. And I ended up with that
Speaker 1: guy for three years.
Speaker 6: Three years, well I did sixteen, so you know, it's
Speaker 6: definitely different. You know, people change, and you know, I
Speaker 6: guess she went through a midlife crisis if there is
Speaker 6: such a thing.
Speaker 1: No, there is one hundred percent a midlife crisis for
Speaker 1: men and for women. Would you agree with that after worry?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like Ron, And that's a lot of
Speaker 1: you know, when these guys are on second divorces and
Speaker 1: they try and go out with younger guys a younger women,
Speaker 1: I wish they would listen to you, because it's not
Speaker 1: always hunky dory to be going out with, you know,
Speaker 1: people that don't you don't have anything in common with,
Speaker 1: and then they all have friends, they have friends that
Speaker 1: you have nothing in common with.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a huge factor, you know. And you know,
Speaker 6: like they say, you know, when you get married, you
Speaker 6: marry their family. Well you're also marrying their friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one percent on you get all the friends. Ron,
Speaker 1: are you and Nora are We're going to come to
Speaker 1: you right in one second. Run Are you dating anyone? Now?
Speaker 4: Have you picked up the pieces? Where are you at?
Speaker 6: I am dating where not what we call wafering girlfriend.
Speaker 6: She has her place, I have mine. We hang out,
Speaker 6: we vacation together. But you know, it's it's not a commitment,
Speaker 6: not like we're out running around with other people.
Speaker 1: But.
Speaker 4: Taking it slow.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm in the work now almost nine years. You know,
Speaker 6: I'm in a hurry, and you know, perfectly happy with
Speaker 6: this situation.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's nice to be Sometimes it's nice to be
Speaker 1: in your own home by yourself. You don't, you know,
Speaker 1: you live alone and then you can just go hang
Speaker 1: it somebody else's house for a little bit.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 6: We call them away games and she stays here. I
Speaker 6: go there.
Speaker 1: I love it. Ron, Thank you so much for the
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Let's go to Nora in Cincinnati. Nora, how
Speaker 1: you doing tonight? All right?
Speaker 11: My name is Norma gene con and I wanted to
Speaker 11: tell you how I met my soulmate. I used to
Speaker 11: live in the high Rise building and in Westwood and
Speaker 11: I'm basically impaired, and he was he just lost his site.
Speaker 11: But we were married six years and then he got
Speaker 11: sick and real and died. And then when he was
Speaker 11: six he uh, he would say Nancy things to me,
Speaker 11: and I would you know, I would forgive him, but
Speaker 11: you know, I loved him just the same. Like I said,
Speaker 11: he died in two thousand and two. He was real
Speaker 11: sick January third, so I kind of missed him, but
Speaker 11: you know, I'm happy he's not suffered anymore.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean, you know what, thanks for the call, Nora,
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. That is uh, that is hard, you know,
Speaker 1: as we get older too, that's a reality for all
Speaker 1: of us. I talked about Jane Goodall today on the
Speaker 1: you know I was on earlier with Sterling, and you know,
Speaker 1: she lived in ninety one and she was still traveling.
Speaker 1: She had all of she was so bright and still
Speaker 1: smart at ninety one, traveling three hundred days out of
Speaker 1: the year. But it is really sad and hard when
Speaker 1: you have somebody that you love and care about and
Speaker 1: they go first.
Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, that is very devastating, and it's important
Speaker 3: that we talk about, you know, how to grieve in
Speaker 3: that case, and how couples go on, how one member
Speaker 3: of the couple goes on.
Speaker 1: And so that's but it's kind of the same thing
Speaker 1: as we talked about letting go period, Like, if you
Speaker 1: have to let go of a relationship, it's like a death.
Speaker 1: It is, and it can be just as painful. I
Speaker 1: would rather have you know, cod strapped throat and pink
Speaker 1: eye then have to deal with heartbreak. Sure, but there's
Speaker 1: a reason why we go through it, and I feel
Speaker 1: like it's to get stronger personally. You have to understand
Speaker 1: that every relationship that you've been in in this life
Speaker 1: serves a purpose. Now, yes, are there times where you
Speaker 1: know that you should listen to that inner voice or
Speaker 1: intuition that says you don't need to be in this relationship.
Speaker 1: You need to let go of this person. He's not
Speaker 1: your soulmate or she's not your soulmate. You have to
Speaker 1: let this person go, and you don't do it for
Speaker 1: fear or attachment issues, or you really like this person
Speaker 1: even though you know that it's not the right thing
Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, there are different mind Why do we
Speaker 1: do that, doctor West? Why do we hold on to
Speaker 1: people longer than they should be in our lives?
Speaker 3: I think for a lot of people it goes back
Speaker 3: to the they're meeting a need that they fear can't
Speaker 3: be met otherwise. They fear it can't be met otherwise,
Speaker 3: so they hold on to that person so that they can.
Speaker 3: It's familiarity, too, right. We want to be with people
Speaker 3: who are familiar and familiar situations.
Speaker 4: True, right, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: If you're familiar, then people are more afraid, even if
Speaker 1: it's a better scenario. They're afraid of the unknown, even
Speaker 1: if it's better than what they're already used to. Let's
Speaker 1: go to John from Miamisburg. John, Hi, it's done a dan,
Speaker 1: doctor Wes. Have you seen the moon tonight?
Speaker 4: It's absolutely gorgeous.
Speaker 7: It is really awesome.
Speaker 12: But yeah, I was just going to weigh in on
Speaker 12: the relationship problems with today and I think that social
Speaker 12: media plays a big part and why relationships don't work out.
Speaker 1: Tell me, why tell me why you think because I'm
Speaker 1: not saying I disagree in any way, shape or form,
Speaker 1: But why do you think so? John?
Speaker 12: I think it goes back to the saying comparison is
Speaker 12: the thief of joy. Yeah, people don't really appreciate what
Speaker 12: they have. They're just always comparing what they have on
Speaker 12: social media to what their friends are doing, you know,
Speaker 12: and kind of just enjoy them and enjoying the spouse
Speaker 12: that they have. They're comparing, you know, all this guy
Speaker 12: makes more money, or this lady looks prettier. You know,
Speaker 12: it's it's just my personal opinion.
Speaker 9: No, I mean, I.
Speaker 1: Literally Wes and I talked about that quote right before
Speaker 1: we got on air. Comparison is that the thief of
Speaker 1: joy or thief of contentment? It is a very big
Speaker 1: problem on social media when you're looking at friends on Facebook, Instagram,
Speaker 1: everybody looks like they're having the best time. Everybody looks
Speaker 1: like everyone's enjoying yours and you're sitting at home scrolling,
Speaker 1: and then you start comparing, why didn't they why didn't
Speaker 1: they ask me to go out? Why don't have a boyfriend?
Speaker 1: And then the loneliness sets in, and then that's when
Speaker 1: the bad decisions start coming. And I could not agree more.
Speaker 1: What do you think, doctor Wes, is a cure for that?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 4: What do get all social media or John, you tell me.
Speaker 12: To me again, I'm I've been married to lind years.
Speaker 12: My my take on it is is I'm very competitive,
Speaker 12: and so is my wife. We were both college athletes.
Speaker 12: We met down in Kentucky. But we try to compete
Speaker 12: with how much we serve each other. And that really,
Speaker 12: I think is unheard of nowadays because it's all about me,
Speaker 12: me and me. What can you do for me?
Speaker 7: But just for us.
Speaker 12: How we make our marriage work is because we got
Speaker 12: kids too, So we look on social media too and
Speaker 12: we see other people, you know what, they're kids that
Speaker 12: did me and stuff. But you know, we we go
Speaker 12: to King's Island here, like our kid when we make
Speaker 12: it three hours before, they have meltdowns. So we see
Speaker 12: all these pictures, you know, people posting, you know, all
Speaker 12: smiley faces, but they don't see the meltdowns before, you know,
Speaker 12: like getting there and getting out of there.
Speaker 6: So that's just can you can you.
Speaker 1: Tell me that? Because I think that's a great question
Speaker 1: to ask ask the callers. Next you tell me that
Speaker 1: quote where you say you serve each other?
Speaker 4: Can you reiterate we.
Speaker 7: Compete with how much we serve each other.
Speaker 12: So I try to outserve her, and she tries to
Speaker 12: outserve me. So it's, you know, instead of like what
Speaker 12: can you do for me? What can what can I
Speaker 12: do for her? It's, you know, we just try to
Speaker 12: compete with serve and serving each other.
Speaker 1: I mean, is there a better I'm not sure I've
Speaker 1: heard of anything better than that tonight, I honest to goodness.
Speaker 1: We compete with how we serve each other, how well
Speaker 1: we serve each other.
Speaker 4: Like, sweetheart, do you want a cup of coffee? I
Speaker 4: got you.
Speaker 1: Sit down, You've been working all day. Let me, let
Speaker 1: me get your water, Let me get you whatever you need.
Speaker 1: Do you want me to go to the store. Do
Speaker 1: you want me to pick something up? Do you want
Speaker 1: me to take the kids out for an hour? Is
Speaker 1: that what you're talking about?
Speaker 12: John, right exactly. And we're both instuce. We put God first,
Speaker 12: and we had the mentality the closer we grow to God,
Speaker 12: the closer we'll go to each other. So let's just
Speaker 12: try to have a.
Speaker 1: How important is faith doctor Wes. It's very relationships very important. Yeah, absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're this the spirituality component, uh it. It gives you
Speaker 1: a guide, especially in the Christian faith, that gives you
Speaker 1: a guide. Yeah, I mean that, John, John, that's such
Speaker 1: a great call and I really appreciate it. I couldn't
Speaker 1: agree with you more on the social media and what
Speaker 1: a lovely gesture that you and your wife have. How
Speaker 1: long have you been married?
Speaker 12: We've been married eleven years. And again it's it's not easy,
Speaker 12: you know, it's it's tough. But again when when you
Speaker 12: find the right person and.
Speaker 7: You love them.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the call, John, These calls
Speaker 1: have been so great tonight and I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: It's don a Dean doctor wes uh Saturday night. We
Speaker 1: do want you to be interactive with us five one
Speaker 1: three seven four ninety seven thousand, one eight hundred. The
Speaker 1: big one it is, I mean to this segment with
Speaker 1: how to serve one another? And compete with that who's
Speaker 1: gonna get better at like giving?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: And he's like, I don't think couples think about that anymore,
Speaker 1: but that is a big deal. It is how can
Speaker 1: we compete with making you? How can I make you happier?
Speaker 1: Like I'm winning. I'm winning at making you happy?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 4: Is there anything better than that?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 1: When we come back, we're going to talk more about that,
Speaker 1: and also with the because he did mention a quote
Speaker 1: we were talking about. Comparison is the thief of joy, kid,
Speaker 1: the thief of contentment, the thief of happiness. Have you
Speaker 1: ever lost a relationship through comparison? And I've got a
Speaker 1: pretty interesting story about that. Five one three seven, nine
Speaker 1: seven thousand, Dona D. Doctor Wes on seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati. Wow,
Speaker 1: all the time is flying by. It's already twenty to eleven.
Speaker 4: It's crazy.
Speaker 1: Donna D and doctor Wes licensed Family marriage therapist added
Speaker 1: to see, you're my buddy. We've known each other for
Speaker 1: a long long time and I always ask you to
Speaker 1: come on with Sterling and I and tonight we're doing
Speaker 1: something different. We have a little bit of a relationship
Speaker 1: show going on. We do want this to be very interactive.
Speaker 1: Five one three, seven four nine hundred the Big One.
Speaker 1: We do have so many great calls tonight and I
Speaker 1: appreciate it. So please, if you want to ask something
Speaker 1: to myself or doctor Wes something about your relationship, you
Speaker 1: don't have to say your name. We know some of
Speaker 1: this stuff can be very personal, so you can just
Speaker 1: make up a name and disguise your voice even if
Speaker 1: you want to, But now is the time to really
Speaker 1: get some advice and get some help and support because
Speaker 1: this isn't easy.
Speaker 4: And we just talked who was it. Who did we
Speaker 4: talk to?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 1: John, who was such a great caller, and he gave
Speaker 1: the quote where Wes and I talked about this earlier.
Speaker 1: Comparison is the thief of joy and the thief of
Speaker 1: contentment when you're comparing your relationship or your partner with
Speaker 1: somebody else. I mean, at no time, like like the
Speaker 1: present has it been easier for people to jump on
Speaker 1: social media or jump on a dating app and make
Speaker 1: it completely.
Speaker 4: Impossible. Sometimes if you're feeling a.
Speaker 1: Little bored in your relationship or I mean you're annoyed
Speaker 1: with your you know you're going you're annoyed with your
Speaker 1: spouse two weeks, three weeks in a row, and you
Speaker 1: go on social media and you see someone you like
Speaker 1: and you message them. Right, the grass is greener on
Speaker 1: the other side, and it can be hard. How detrimental
Speaker 1: can it be? And John was talking about this about
Speaker 1: social media and all the dating apps. There's fifty of
Speaker 1: them now, I think, how hard is it to lay
Speaker 1: off those things when you're having trouble in your relationship.
Speaker 13: It's detrimental with that to the relationship. How hard is
Speaker 13: it though, I mean it's it's easy. Maybe that wasn't
Speaker 13: the right question, and I think I threw you off
Speaker 13: on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hard is it to maintain a relationship and be
Speaker 1: monogamous when there's a million dating apps and social media?
Speaker 1: If you feel like it's not going the right way, sure,
Speaker 1: it's it's really challenging. I think that, Uh, to be quite,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's the grass is always greener. On
Speaker 1: the other side, it's a dopamine hit, right, We're always
Speaker 1: looking for something new. Novelty is very important in a relationship.
Speaker 1: Couples get bored and they start looking for something new, right,
Speaker 1: or they want to reconnect with old partners, or they
Speaker 1: want to It's very detrimental and it's all about that
Speaker 1: dopamine hit in the brain. Are you one of those
Speaker 1: people that get bored? I have to I have to
Speaker 1: admit that sometimes, you know, sometimes I do get a
Speaker 1: little bored and I nitpick a little bit a little bit.
Speaker 1: I'm trying so hard to as I get older, appreciate
Speaker 1: the things that would drive me nuts in an earlier age.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 1: And I do feel like as you get older, you
Speaker 1: you you really can let some of that stuff go,
Speaker 1: like let us slide.
Speaker 4: What's the big deal if.
Speaker 1: He's chewing loud or he didn't put the pans in
Speaker 1: the dishwasher right right, it's.
Speaker 3: A little And this may be controversial, I don't know,
Speaker 3: but it's I think people can become lazy in relationships
Speaker 3: and they don't want to do the work. They don't
Speaker 3: want to do the work, so they just want to
Speaker 3: go to a dating app and they want to get
Speaker 3: you know, their needs met there, so instead of addressing
Speaker 3: it with their partner and having those hard conversations, they
Speaker 3: even have.
Speaker 1: Those, you know, on Instagram. As I'm talking about social media.
Speaker 1: On Instagram, they'll have this guy walk up to a couple,
Speaker 1: how long have you been dating? Oh?
Speaker 4: About four years? You're happy? Yeah, I'm happy.
Speaker 1: And then he goes, can you see let me see
Speaker 1: your phone and see if one of you is on
Speaker 1: a dating app, and the guy will go sure. Usually
Speaker 1: it's the girl that's on the dating app. It's crazy.
Speaker 1: I mean nine out of ten times it's the girl
Speaker 1: that's on the dating app, and she'll.
Speaker 4: Say, no, I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1: I don't know if any of this stuff is made up,
Speaker 1: but it seems real and it seems like, Wow, somebody
Speaker 1: just got hurt, right, somebody just got broken in front
Speaker 1: of while somebody's filming.
Speaker 4: And the guy is always just.
Speaker 1: Like, how could you do this?
Speaker 8: Why this is you?
Speaker 4: She's like, it's not me. How could you do this
Speaker 4: to me?
Speaker 3: But why is she on the dating app? Why is
Speaker 3: she on there?
Speaker 1: Because she can be she has other opportunities. Yeah, it's terrible,
Speaker 1: but it's it's because she's Is she getting her needs met?
Speaker 1: Does she communicate what her needs are? Does the couple
Speaker 1: really talk about that? A lot of couples I work
Speaker 1: with they don't talk about what they really need.
Speaker 4: That's because they get comfortable. She loves me, I love her.
Speaker 1: Let's just sit on the couch and order do or dash, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, is there a way that you can you
Speaker 1: can say.
Speaker 4: Look, I'm gonna get on it.
Speaker 1: I mean, just be honest about it. I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: on a dating app if you don't hang out with
Speaker 1: me and go out with my friends and let's plan
Speaker 1: a trip or let's go see a movie or something.
Speaker 1: Let's get out of the house. Let's go to Bill
Speaker 1: from Coleraine Township way in here five and three four
Speaker 1: ninety seven thousand. We do want to hear from you. Bill,
Speaker 1: thanks for calling. You're on with Donnade and doctor Wes.
Speaker 1: What's going on?
Speaker 7: Good evening, Hi, Hi. I'm in a situation to where
Speaker 7: I have lukemia diagnosed five years ago and I was
Speaker 7: in Florida with my wife. She had a granddaughter from along,
Speaker 7: which is my step granddaughter, who I absolutely love dearly.
Speaker 7: She's six years old. I can't get anywhere in this relationship.
Speaker 7: My wife is an alcoholic, just got a lot of
Speaker 7: things going on, and I'm to the point where I
Speaker 7: don't know what the hell.
Speaker 12: To do next.
Speaker 4: How long have you been with her, Bill.
Speaker 7: We've been married thirteen years.
Speaker 1: And then have you tried talking to her and saying, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm at my WIT's end.
Speaker 7: I have told her I'm at my wits end, even
Speaker 7: threatened to walk out. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It just
Speaker 7: absolutely doesn't matter.
Speaker 4: She does she not? Does she not respond? How does
Speaker 4: she respond to that?
Speaker 7: I don't know if she does respond, other than she'll
Speaker 7: go over her daughter's house, which that's a whole other issue.
Speaker 7: And She'll stay Friday night, Saturday night, come home Sunday
Speaker 7: with a step granddaughter, her granddaughter, and I'm just I'm
Speaker 7: beside myself.
Speaker 1: I can tell I can, I can hear it, and
Speaker 1: and and oftentimes Bill, if you've been if you've been
Speaker 1: doing it for a while with her, you can make
Speaker 1: yourself sick. And I know that you've got lukie or
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that you're going through that. And but
Speaker 1: behavior is a language, right doctor Wes. If he's reaching
Speaker 1: out and saying, I'm I am having a hard time
Speaker 1: connecting with you, and I am I'm I'm at the
Speaker 1: point where I am done, And she doesn't care.
Speaker 3: It sounds like stonewalling.
Speaker 1: It does sound like stonewalling from from her on on
Speaker 1: her end, right, Yeah, she she walks out, she goes away,
Speaker 1: leaves him to his thoughts, comes back on Sunday, and
Speaker 1: then there's then she just what Bill stays in the
Speaker 1: house and you guys don't address it again.
Speaker 7: Yeah, basically Monday through Friday, she's working. I have a
Speaker 7: part time job. It's it's just I don't I said.
Speaker 4: At this point, I'm sorry, I can hear it.
Speaker 7: Other than walking out and I'm living a six year
Speaker 7: old who like dear we love we are raised in
Speaker 7: just six year old because of her daughter, her act together.
Speaker 4: Wes.
Speaker 3: What do you think he should do?
Speaker 1: Bill? Bill, thank you so much for the call. We
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. What what do you think Bill should do?
Speaker 7: You know?
Speaker 3: I think have you tried couple's therapy or is that
Speaker 3: not an option?
Speaker 7: I have not.
Speaker 1: Have not?
Speaker 4: Do you think she would be would she be willing
Speaker 4: to try it?
Speaker 9: Bill?
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 7: I can't answer that straight forward or other. I don't
Speaker 7: know if she would or not. I don't know.
Speaker 1: If you said for the health of our six year
Speaker 1: old that we're taking care of, can we go and
Speaker 1: speak to somebody because you're your drinking is out of control.
Speaker 1: I'm getting sicker by the moment and we're looking after
Speaker 1: this this little girl who needs us. Can we be
Speaker 1: some sort of role models for this little girl and
Speaker 1: both try Can you talk to her like that? Bill?
Speaker 7: I guess I could.
Speaker 4: You got to go for it because at this point
Speaker 4: you have nothing else to lose.
Speaker 1: So instead of like it maybe not threatening, maybe take
Speaker 1: the positive root.
Speaker 4: We talked about that earlier.
Speaker 1: Docus right, So if he goes in a positive room, listen,
Speaker 1: we still have things we can fight for, and it's
Speaker 1: including this six year old little girl.
Speaker 4: I'm willing to fight for this relationship.
Speaker 3: Are you right?
Speaker 1: And get your answer, and if she says no or
Speaker 1: anything other than yes, then I would suggest you go
Speaker 1: get counseling for yourself and do whatever you can for
Speaker 1: your six that six year old little girl.
Speaker 4: That's my advice. Thank you, Bill, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna send you so much energy, positive energy, and
Speaker 1: good luck. I mean, this happens all the time, wes.
Speaker 1: When when there's somebody that cares and wants to work
Speaker 1: on the relationship and the other one is just like
Speaker 1: why why is why is his wife still in this?
Speaker 4: Why is she there? And we don't know both sides
Speaker 4: of the story.
Speaker 3: We don't, we don't, but it's it's I'm suspicious of
Speaker 3: attachment injuries or attachment wounds, So that would be I'm
Speaker 3: really curious, and I'd be asking her on her end,
Speaker 3: what happened in this relationship that caused you to disconnect
Speaker 3: from your partner and then turn towards Was it the
Speaker 3: daughter that she turns towards, turns towards other family members
Speaker 3: to get emotional needs met yeah, right, or just to
Speaker 3: get space from him.
Speaker 1: It sounds like, you know, maybe he's not saying it
Speaker 1: the right way, but you can tell, we can tell
Speaker 1: just by talking to him for a moment that he's
Speaker 1: at his WIT's end.
Speaker 3: Well, he's hurting, he's deeply hurting, right, and he's at it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you're right, he's at his what ends too? And and
Speaker 3: so and meanwhile it sounds like she's stonewalling and and
Speaker 3: that's totally invalidating and hurting him even more. Right, So
Speaker 3: he's stuck in he's stuck in this pattern. It's a
Speaker 3: pursue withdraw pattern perhaps, right, where the more he pursues,
Speaker 3: the more she withdraws. Right, And so a couple's therapists
Speaker 3: could help to under to uncover what is the primary
Speaker 3: emotion that is not being shared that she's feeling, right,
Speaker 3: So how do you uncover that?
Speaker 4: What can he say?
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, you can try the positive route.
Speaker 1: We've got this six year old that we've been left
Speaker 1: to take care of. She needs us, and that could
Speaker 1: be some motivation if you can put it that way.
Speaker 1: But what can he say to her that will snap
Speaker 1: her out of it?
Speaker 3: I think validating her emotions, so so asking open ended questions.
Speaker 3: I'm curious, you know, I've noticed that you you know
Speaker 3: you you leave and you retreat and you go to
Speaker 3: other family members. I'm wondering, what's happening for you in
Speaker 3: our really between the two of us, that causes you
Speaker 3: to do that, What's happening for you? What are you
Speaker 3: feeling at your core? Those types of open ended questions
Speaker 3: and then listening and then echoing back what she said,
Speaker 3: and that validates it. She may not feel heard. I
Speaker 3: don't know, we don't know the story right, but I
Speaker 3: definitely think that it it would need to start with
Speaker 3: just just approaching it by saying, I'm hurting. We got
Speaker 3: to make it. We can't, we can't make it all.
Speaker 3: We can't blame her in any way, no, right.
Speaker 1: No, But the pain that I heard in that guy
Speaker 1: Bill's voice, our caller, I mean, I'm reminded of this
Speaker 1: time I went to this church in San Francisco.
Speaker 4: It was a long long time ago.
Speaker 1: It was called the Glide Church, and there was a
Speaker 1: visiting pastor and he he he was talking about learning
Speaker 1: life's lessons and he said, he said, if I want
Speaker 1: to learn something, don't sit me next to a scholar
Speaker 1: that's been you know, go in school for fifteen twenty years.
Speaker 1: Sit me next to somebody who's loved and lost, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna learn something. That guy had pain. He had pain.
Speaker 1: I could feel it in his heart, was in his
Speaker 1: throat talking about it, and he once, this is it.
Speaker 4: Just happens all the time.
Speaker 3: She's shut down.
Speaker 1: She is shut down, and he doesn't know how to
Speaker 1: connect with her. It's almost like, do you remember And
Speaker 1: this is so cliche, but The Office is one of
Speaker 1: my favorite sitcoms, and it was when when Pam and
Speaker 1: Jim were really disconnected and she said goodbye and he
Speaker 1: was going to leave, and then he turned around and
Speaker 1: hugged her and hugged her for a long time and
Speaker 1: just wrapped his arms around her and gave her the
Speaker 1: biggest tut until she melted. And it feels like it
Speaker 1: feels like his wife needs to be hugged. Yeah, she
Speaker 1: needs the She needs it to be hugged until she
Speaker 1: can't be bitter anymore.
Speaker 3: Right, she needs That's right, she needs.
Speaker 1: Some of us just need that long hug to say
Speaker 1: I love you instead of putting up my guard all
Speaker 1: the time with you.
Speaker 4: Whatever. Bill's done.
Speaker 1: He's probably done stuff too, but I mean he's he's
Speaker 1: they've been going back and forth and she's put a
Speaker 1: guard up and now she's like it's armor.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's an attachment injury, an attachment wound, and until
Speaker 3: that wound has been identified and talked through, I think
Speaker 3: this pattern continues.
Speaker 1: And so the best way to get to that point,
Speaker 1: the best way to get to that that open wound,
Speaker 1: is to say what have I done or what are
Speaker 1: you feeling?
Speaker 4: What do you need from me?
Speaker 1: I'll open tell me And you can't be defensive, and
Speaker 1: you can't. You have to literally sit back and listen
Speaker 1: if you care, if you care, what is what? Couples
Speaker 1: need to hear this so bad. Not even just couples.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about sisters, mothers, brothers, friends. If you are offended,
Speaker 1: if you get offended when you are talking to somebody
Speaker 1: that you love, the conversation ends.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: You literally cannot go any further. If you were like,
Speaker 4: what did you mean by that?
Speaker 3: It's you. You can't do you language. You have to
Speaker 3: use eye language, right.
Speaker 1: But Wes, if I were to say to you, if
Speaker 1: we were talking and we were in a little bit
Speaker 1: of an argument, if I were to say, you know what,
Speaker 1: every time I hear that tone in your voice, I
Speaker 1: absolutely cringe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm done, I'm done, I'm checked out of the conversation.
Speaker 4: That's it, right, But what if what if you were
Speaker 4: to say in response to me?
Speaker 1: What if you were to say, I understand your hurt Yep,
Speaker 1: I'm trying not to take that personally, Ken. Is there
Speaker 1: a way that we can talk to each other that
Speaker 1: I can I want to listen to you. Can you
Speaker 1: speak to me in a way that I can hear
Speaker 1: you without this huge defensive wall that's going to come
Speaker 1: up the second you say my voice makes you want
Speaker 1: to cringe because that hurts. And if you're trying to
Speaker 1: hurt me, you just did. And I want us to
Speaker 1: get through this, right. That's not getting offended right now.
Speaker 1: The offensive side is you always criticize, you always this
Speaker 1: or you.
Speaker 3: It's a harsh startup versus a soft startup is what
Speaker 3: you're talking about there, Yes, a soft startup is using
Speaker 3: a softer language, lowering the voice right, and remembering that
Speaker 3: we're on a team. We're on a team. I love you,
Speaker 3: I care for you. I'm really concerned about our disconnection
Speaker 3: here and I really want to get to understand what's
Speaker 3: happening for you right now, because you.
Speaker 1: Know when your partner is out of whack, you know
Speaker 1: when they're pissed, and you know when they need space,
Speaker 1: so help them along with that.
Speaker 4: I get it you're upset. I get it.
Speaker 1: I'm upset too. I'm gonna try and be the voice
Speaker 1: of reason and talk. So let it. I want you
Speaker 1: to let it out, but please use your words. Don't
Speaker 1: be so harsh and cutting. Just try your best to
Speaker 1: help me listen to you so that we can work
Speaker 1: through this.
Speaker 4: It's the problem.
Speaker 1: It's not us we're it's us against the problem, not
Speaker 1: us against us.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I can talk this stuff all night long.
Speaker 1: And Wes, it's already ten fifty five, it's almost to
Speaker 1: the top of the hour. It's don A d Doctor
Speaker 1: Wes Saturday night coming up. There are some really good
Speaker 1: green flags in a relationship. We have three really critical,
Speaker 1: healthy green flags that if you have this going on
Speaker 1: in your relationship, you're doing good and we want to
Speaker 1: hear from you. So five one, three, seven, four, nine,
Speaker 1: seven thousand when we get back, what is the best
Speaker 1: thing about your relationship? Donna D Doctor Wes. It's seven
Speaker 1: hundred WLW, Cincinnati, Saturday Night. We're I can't believe in
Speaker 1: the eleven o'clock Donna d and Doctor Wes, seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 4: Look up at the moon. Look up at the moon
Speaker 4: and know how small we are.
Speaker 1: Look at the stars. I mean, it's a big, beautiful moon.
Speaker 1: And it's so nice to be reminded and be humbled
Speaker 1: that it's not all about us, us, us, me me, me, me,
Speaker 1: me right. It's there's a big, beautiful universe out there
Speaker 1: and we are just a tiny tiny bit of it.
Speaker 1: So we've been talking about relationships. This is kind of
Speaker 1: a different show and on seven hundred I'm super happy
Speaker 1: to be talking about it and I can talk about
Speaker 1: this forever. I'm so happy to have my partner, doctor Wes,
Speaker 1: with me. We've known each other speaking of relationships. Is
Speaker 1: it thirty years now?
Speaker 3: It's yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7: I mean.
Speaker 1: Used to be a program director for Kiss FM and
Speaker 1: Dayton and that's how we knew each other. I was
Speaker 1: so program director for KISSFM here in Cincinnati. We've been
Speaker 1: in radio for a long long time. You went a
Speaker 1: little bit of a different route and you went and
Speaker 1: got your doctorate, your licensed marriage family therapist in the
Speaker 1: state of Tennessee. And we have you on quite a
Speaker 1: bit on the show because we want to help sort
Speaker 1: some things that are hard. I mean, if you get
Speaker 1: past the age of twenty and probably earlier, you probably
Speaker 1: dealt with a heartbreak of some sort. But even before,
Speaker 1: it's mother daughter relationships, mother, father, brother, sister, friends, and
Speaker 1: how to communicate is one of the greatest skills. And
Speaker 1: even beyond that, emotional awareness, because it really doesn't matter
Speaker 1: what other people do, it's how you respond. It's all
Speaker 1: about how you respond to situations that come into your life.
Speaker 1: So if you can understand your emotions and how to
Speaker 1: regulate them, then you'd be able to talk to anybody.
Speaker 4: That's the most part.
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, emotional regulation absolutely.
Speaker 1: So Esther Perez, we both really like her has a
Speaker 1: quote the quality of your life is determined by the
Speaker 1: quality of your relationships. So how deep are your relationships,
Speaker 1: how much? How much can you share and how much
Speaker 1: can you listen to your partner?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: How honest? How important is honesty in a relationship with.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's it's the deal. It's either you have it
Speaker 3: or you don't. It's a deal breaker. If you don't
Speaker 3: have it.
Speaker 4: I mean, like, how honest should you be?
Speaker 1: All right, let's just say you've been married for fifteen
Speaker 1: years and you're still attracted to your husband or wife. No,
Speaker 1: but you say, you know what, sweetheart, you really need
Speaker 1: to maybe get a little bit healthier. You've been eating
Speaker 1: a little bad. You need to get to the gym.
Speaker 1: And if somebody, if you can't say that to your
Speaker 1: person and they get offended, how likely are you going
Speaker 1: to be able to say you hurt my feelings when
Speaker 1: you were talking bad about me at dinner the other
Speaker 1: night in front of our friends.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, you have to lead with emotions. I think
Speaker 3: if I was going to have that conversation, I would say,
Speaker 3: you know, I love you and I care deeply for you, right,
Speaker 3: And because I love you so deeply, i'm you know,
Speaker 3: I just was curious what you are thinking, or I
Speaker 3: wouldn't say that I'm curious what your thoughts might be
Speaker 3: about your health right now?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: And instead it comes out with like all you do
Speaker 1: is wear these baggy sweatpants all the time, and I
Speaker 1: wish you would dress up a little bit.
Speaker 4: For me so that you can be attracted.
Speaker 1: That's a harsh startup. That's a harsh startup. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: sometimes we talk to each other that way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that is hurtful, and that is a cut
Speaker 3: that it will just keep adding up.
Speaker 1: Is it realistic when you live with somebody and you've
Speaker 1: got kids, and you've got dogs and cats and whatever
Speaker 1: to say I'm curious to see if your regards and
Speaker 1: your health. I mean, that is the nicest possible way
Speaker 1: to say it. But is it realistic to be able
Speaker 1: to do that? So, I mean, how do we get ourselves?
Speaker 1: How do we get ourselves to better communication instead of
Speaker 1: going from you look like a slob? Or how what
Speaker 1: are the steps we can take to getting to the
Speaker 1: way you just said it? And how you can you
Speaker 1: can speak so eloquently to your partner?
Speaker 3: Well, I think you have empathy. You have to have
Speaker 3: empathy before you speak. You have to you have to
Speaker 3: put yourself in their shoes. How are they going to
Speaker 3: feel if I say this to them? And so many
Speaker 3: couples because life is moving so fast, they lose empathy.
Speaker 3: They flip their lid. They flip their lid, and that's
Speaker 3: where like they're I don't want to go into too
Speaker 3: much of the science of it, but essentially the part
Speaker 3: of the brain that helps regulate their emotions goes offline.
Speaker 3: They go into a fight fight or freeze response, and.
Speaker 4: They just tint because they feel attacked.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because they feel attacked or they feel afraid, they
Speaker 3: feel like they're partner's not taking care of themselves to
Speaker 3: use that example, right, And and they're feeling fear, they
Speaker 3: get angry about it and they just they just mouth
Speaker 3: off about it.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: So, and and it's funny that you said empathy because
Speaker 1: we were getting into the three green flags to a
Speaker 1: critical healthy relationship. There are three things that you can do.
Speaker 1: I was listening to Mel Robbins podcast, which I think
Speaker 1: she's she's great and she's got a new book out
Speaker 1: called That Let Them, but her podcast is exceptional.
Speaker 4: I really do agree.
Speaker 1: But she she has three green flags she says that
Speaker 1: are critical to a healthy relationship.
Speaker 4: The first thing is growth. You have to be willing
Speaker 4: to grow with your partner.
Speaker 1: Because if I want to get stronger, and I want
Speaker 1: to get more emotional awareness and more emotional regulation, and
Speaker 1: I want to be a better partner, if I don't
Speaker 1: have somebody that's going to grow with me, how is
Speaker 1: that going to work? Yeah, So, that's kind of a
Speaker 1: big deal. So that's green flag if you both are
Speaker 1: willing to grow together. The other green flag is kindness, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and gentleness, be kind right right, I mean we forget
Speaker 1: that that's such a big deal, and not just in
Speaker 1: your your partnerships and your relationships with with your sister,
Speaker 1: your mother, your be kind, but be kind and you
Speaker 1: can practice it everywhere you go. Be kind at the
Speaker 1: gas station, be kind at Trader Joe's, be kind that
Speaker 1: you know, wherever you go you can practice and people
Speaker 1: are open to it. They're open to being given kindness
Speaker 1: and they're open to giving kindness too. The kinder you are,
Speaker 1: that's what you're going to receive. And when you do
Speaker 1: that in a relationship, it's it's it seems trivial to oh,
Speaker 1: just be kind, that's a green flag, but it's a
Speaker 1: really big deal.
Speaker 3: That's a absolutely and it needs to be grounded in
Speaker 3: friendship too and admiration for each other.
Speaker 4: Right right. And the third thing where you said empathy
Speaker 4: is compassion, So it's growth.
Speaker 1: You got to grow together. You have to be kind
Speaker 1: to one another instead of angry and mean. I mean
Speaker 1: you're like we both can understand, like the difference between
Speaker 1: somebody that is angry all the time or that is
Speaker 1: somebody kind. That is an enormous difference. There's like a
Speaker 1: mountain of difference between those. And if somebody's angry all
Speaker 1: the time, then it's really really hard to get along
Speaker 1: with somebody like that.
Speaker 3: If they're angry, they're emotionally constipated. It's what I say, Okay,
Speaker 3: what does what does that mean?
Speaker 4: They stuff everything?
Speaker 3: They stuff everything underneath. Anger is a secondary emotion. It's
Speaker 3: not the first thing that you feel. You feel fear, hurt, sadness, guilt, shame.
Speaker 3: There's a primary emotion that you are feeling underneath the anger,
Speaker 3: but you don't show it. You show the anger.
Speaker 1: So behind deep anger right, first of all, five one, three, seven, four,
Speaker 1: nine hundred the big and we want you to call us.
Speaker 4: We want this to be a very interactive show.
Speaker 1: We are going to be doing this on most Saturdays,
Speaker 1: so please feel free to call in. We want to
Speaker 1: know what is working for you. What are the green
Speaker 1: flags in your relationship? What I mean, tell us what
Speaker 1: at least one thing that you have going on in
Speaker 1: your life and in your relationship that you're doing right.
Speaker 1: We've talked a lot about you know how people can
Speaker 1: mess it up. We really want to end on a
Speaker 1: positive note on how people are doing doing well in
Speaker 1: their relationship. Is it the kindness? Do you make an
Speaker 1: effort to be kind? Do you make an effort to
Speaker 1: grow with your partner? Do you evolve?
Speaker 4: What was John said?
Speaker 1: He competes he the way that he competes with his
Speaker 1: wife is that they compete on how much they serve
Speaker 1: each other, which I loved.
Speaker 4: So the third thing is compassion.
Speaker 1: So it's growth, kindness and compassion, stepping out of your
Speaker 1: own perspective. What you've been saying all night, West, you
Speaker 1: got to give You got to be able to get
Speaker 1: out of your head and look at your partners and
Speaker 1: where they coming from in this situation, especially in an argument.
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially especially in an argument.
Speaker 1: And if you don't have compassion, what is the opposite
Speaker 1: of compassion?
Speaker 7: What do I think?
Speaker 3: That's fear? In my opinion?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, so fear and compassion would be resentment. Wouldn't
Speaker 1: resentment be uh uh the opposite of that? Let's go
Speaker 1: to Zach and Hamilton. Hey, Zach, you're on with Donna,
Speaker 1: Dee and doctor West. Thanks for Colin. Are you having
Speaker 1: a good Saturday night.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, Uh, just got done fishing, got done cleaning
Speaker 2: the fish, and I'm heading home.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 2: How is your guys night going.
Speaker 4: It's beautiful.
Speaker 1: It's our first night together on air, and we're talking
Speaker 1: about relationships because we feel like it's a really, really
Speaker 1: important subject and we're talking about you know, what are
Speaker 1: you doing that's working.
Speaker 4: Are you in a relationship right now?
Speaker 2: Zach? Yeah, And that's why I wanted to call in
Speaker 2: because I found it it's an interesting subject and I
Speaker 2: think my side would be a little.
Speaker 7: Bit different than others. But I just turned twenty.
Speaker 2: Eight and my soon to be Beyonce is twenty six.
Speaker 2: By the turn twenty seven. We had our first baby
Speaker 2: on December thirty, first baby girl, and so with that
Speaker 2: we're obviously younger, and it wasn't as planned as it
Speaker 2: could have been. So with work and everything. I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to drag this one, but with work
Speaker 2: and everything with both of us and taking care of
Speaker 2: the baby. We just bought a new house and everything.
Speaker 2: I think one of the main things is is being
Speaker 2: truthful with each other and.
Speaker 7: Being if there's.
Speaker 2: Something wrong, talk about it, you know. That's that's one
Speaker 2: of the main things is I have bad anxiety and
Speaker 2: she's always tried to pull things out of me. Us
Speaker 2: men don't like talking about things, but she's tried to
Speaker 2: pull it out of me. The main thing in a
Speaker 2: relationship is is what I want to say is have communication.
Speaker 2: Don't be scared to talk to your spouse about anything,
Speaker 2: because if you can't talk to him or her about
Speaker 2: anything that's going on in life, then you guys will
Speaker 2: never be one hundred percent of team.
Speaker 1: So Zach, I appreciate this because you are young. Twenty
Speaker 1: seven is young, and congratulations having a baby.
Speaker 4: There there their life.
Speaker 1: Changing, life changing little little creatures that come into our
Speaker 1: lives and it makes a relationship more beautiful and more strong,
Speaker 1: but also more difficult. And the more that you communicate
Speaker 1: with your with your fiance and soon to be wife,
Speaker 1: the better that's going to be.
Speaker 4: And that's better.
Speaker 1: The better it's going to be too for the for
Speaker 1: the baby as well, because they're gonna you're gonna be.
Speaker 4: A good role model. But do you feel like.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like as you're because you got a
Speaker 1: lot going on, You have a new baby, you have
Speaker 1: a fiance, so you're gonna get married, You've got a
Speaker 1: new wife. Is there pressure is Do you feel like
Speaker 1: there's a lot of pressure on your young little life
Speaker 1: right now?
Speaker 2: Well, that's a good question. If I were to talk
Speaker 2: to anyone else really older than me, I'd to say,
Speaker 2: let's let's just say.
Speaker 7: A range fifty sixties.
Speaker 2: If I were to talk to someone to say I
Speaker 2: was stressed out, I think that would understand in a way.
Speaker 7: But those are the people those age I.
Speaker 2: Think that you know, they handed a horder or whatever.
Speaker 12: But yeah, I mean it's it's hard.
Speaker 2: I'm in the iron workers Union. We stayed pretty busy
Speaker 2: around here in the Try State area. But the most
Speaker 2: stressful thing is is being this young and not really
Speaker 2: playing on having a baby.
Speaker 7: Like I said, m h.
Speaker 2: The only thing that's got us through everything is communication.
Speaker 2: And I'll come home from work, i might have a
Speaker 2: bad day and I'll try to not hide it, but
Speaker 2: I'm not going to talk about it just because I
Speaker 2: don't want to bring work home with me. But she'll
Speaker 2: catch me sometimes and to be like, I know something's wrong,
Speaker 2: because that's gonna better.
Speaker 12: Us, like we we gotta do something about this.
Speaker 1: That's definitely He pulled me out of that.
Speaker 7: Little hole I was in.
Speaker 2: And once we had that.
Speaker 7: Baby, baby girl, god lover. I mean, it's.
Speaker 2: It brought me and m Kennie. I just want to
Speaker 2: say some of that new parents out there, don't don't
Speaker 2: be scared.
Speaker 7: There's not a there's not a rule. Look for it
Speaker 7: out there.
Speaker 6: No no one can teach you.
Speaker 7: How to be a parent.
Speaker 2: Just love, love your partner, spouse, whatever it may be.
Speaker 2: Just from my perspective, communicate, communication, main thing.
Speaker 1: That's exactly right, Zach. Thanks so much for the call,
Speaker 1: and good luck with everything. You got a lot going on,
Speaker 1: but it sounds like you have a really good head
Speaker 1: on your shoulder. And I love that your fiance pulled
Speaker 1: you out of that hole. That's what partners do.
Speaker 3: That's exactly right.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Zach, Thanks so.
Speaker 2: Much, Thank you guys, have a good night.
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Appreciate you so so. Doctor West. Everything was right about that.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what's going on externally, if you've got
Speaker 1: somebody that's got your back, especially when you're going when
Speaker 1: you're down, that's right. When you're down, that's when you
Speaker 1: need somebody to help more than anything. There you're gonna
Speaker 1: there's nobody that doesn't have down moments, but to have
Speaker 1: somebody say, let's talk about it. I'm gonna sit here.
Speaker 1: I don't care how busy it is, I don't care
Speaker 1: what the baby's doing. Let's sit here and figure out.
Speaker 1: Just tell me, just let it out.
Speaker 3: They prioritized each other, is what they did. And I
Speaker 3: see in my practice problems come up when people lose
Speaker 3: the husband and wife, the relationship. They lose that, they
Speaker 3: go towards being parents and they focus one hundred percent
Speaker 3: on the parent parental role, or they'll focus one hundred
Speaker 3: percent on their work role and they'll lose that relationship
Speaker 3: as partners. So I love the fact they prioritize that.
Speaker 3: And it sounds like his fiance was intentional about that conversation.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that what I heard him say too,
Speaker 1: is she knew, she knows, she recognized, she recognized that
Speaker 1: he was down, yep, and she cared and yep to
Speaker 1: say let's talk about it.
Speaker 3: And that's empathy.
Speaker 1: She used empathy, compassion, She wanted him to let it
Speaker 1: out and grow.
Speaker 4: She was working with him.
Speaker 1: And I do feel like couples ebb and flow a
Speaker 1: lot of times you can get back to that. Bring kindness,
Speaker 1: bring empathy, bring compassion, and couples can revive their relationship.
Speaker 1: There are times where everyone goes through tough times, whether
Speaker 1: your mother, daughter, brother, sister, sister and sister, and any
Speaker 1: good relationship, you're going to go through some downs and
Speaker 1: then that's when you really show up. That's right, yep,
Speaker 1: and I just I love that call so much. All Right,
Speaker 1: we're going to go back. I think we have one
Speaker 1: more segment. When we come back, we're going to talk
Speaker 1: to doctor West. He's got the top three tips that
Speaker 1: help his couples in therapy to build a strong, solid
Speaker 1: foundation a really good relationship. We've talked a lot about
Speaker 1: how when it's time to leave a relationship, now it's
Speaker 1: time when you can build on it, and we've got
Speaker 1: the top three tips. So that's coming up. We do
Speaker 1: want you to call five one, three, seven, four ninety
Speaker 1: seven thousand. Thank you so much for all the callers tonight.
Speaker 1: We're going to be back with one more segment before
Speaker 1: we leave.
Speaker 4: It's don A. D and Doctor West on seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: Ooh, it has been a fun night, Saturday night. It's
Speaker 1: all about relationships. It's gonna be a nice night though.
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, it's a cool night fifty seven
Speaker 1: and then it's going to warm up for the game
Speaker 1: day tomorrow eighty four degrees. So we were talking about relationships.
Speaker 1: Let's get to Pat because he's been on hold for
Speaker 1: a while. Pat, thanks for holding for so long. It's
Speaker 1: done a d with doctor wes Uh.
Speaker 4: We've been talking about relationships, the good, the good, the bad,
Speaker 4: and the ugly. What what do you have to contribute?
Speaker 5: Well, I've been seated in the ugly.
Speaker 1: We all, anybody, anybody over twenty one has really had
Speaker 1: their fair share.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I just wanted to contribute. Maybe next week you
Speaker 5: could talk about because it's a big technical subject. But
Speaker 5: what happens if you find out that your mate is bipolar?
Speaker 5: And then when that happens, you know, you encourage her
Speaker 5: to it was a you know lady I was with,
Speaker 5: and encourage her to get help and everything, and then
Speaker 5: I don't know, the prescription drugs and a little bit
Speaker 5: of alcohol and then she just goes on her own
Speaker 5: her own way, you know. So I've been divorced twenty
Speaker 5: one years now and raised a couple of kids and everything,
Speaker 5: so I know how it goes. Yeah, next week, maybe
Speaker 5: you can talk about that, because bipolar you know, you
Speaker 5: never know what you get into with somebody. You have
Speaker 5: to kind of get to know them before you really
Speaker 5: get involved with them.
Speaker 1: I guess you know what I mean that that is
Speaker 1: a tough I've never I've never experienced someone with bipolar.
Speaker 1: I mean I've experienced people with very very heavy emotions.
Speaker 4: Wes.
Speaker 1: What would you say to Pat who is dealing with
Speaker 1: somebody that has bipolar and prescription meds and then a
Speaker 1: little bit of alcohol.
Speaker 3: That's a tough mix. Yeah, especially the alcohol. The So
Speaker 3: I would if that were my clients, I would want
Speaker 3: both both Pat and the and the partner to come
Speaker 3: in for therapy together so that we can learn how
Speaker 3: to work through that because the moods, the mood and state,
Speaker 3: the mood swings, the ups and the downs can create
Speaker 3: a lot of emotional instability in the partner too, in
Speaker 3: Pat as well.
Speaker 4: So, Pat, have you ever gone to counseling?
Speaker 9: Oh?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's down over with now, But I
Speaker 5: mean I tried. I went, you know, the court, you
Speaker 5: know they want to head and assigned people when matistreet
Speaker 5: or whatever they had down there.
Speaker 2: So I went all through it.
Speaker 5: But I mean, you know, I'm just pointing out for
Speaker 5: other people because you never know, if you know, take
Speaker 5: time to get to know somebody. You don't want to
Speaker 5: rest in anything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's good advice because even even if you're thinking
Speaker 1: about maybe the one of the most public figures that
Speaker 1: was bipolar and and in a public relationship would be
Speaker 1: Kanye West and Kim Kardashian and he would fly off
Speaker 1: the handle and they had four kids, ended up, you know, divorced,
Speaker 1: and he freely admits that he has bipolar and has
Speaker 1: issues with that, and when he doesn't take his meds,
Speaker 1: he gets uh, it goes deeper. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that that is a good subject to touch on.
Speaker 3: And doctor Wes you you're familiar with this, sure, and
Speaker 3: that's why it has to be a family intervention. But
Speaker 3: the person who the person with the bipolar disorder has
Speaker 3: to be willing to take their medicine to be consistent
Speaker 3: and and to really you know, work through it.
Speaker 5: So that also in my situation, there was no communications.
Speaker 5: He didn't want to talk so right, right, and I
Speaker 5: try to I try to write her and then to
Speaker 5: get more frustrated with that. Yeah, and so it was
Speaker 5: just a mess.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean I just I've been through it. I
Speaker 5: just don't want to see anybody anybody else can in
Speaker 5: the situation like that.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what we're talking about. That's why we're doing
Speaker 1: this show. Pat, thank you so much for calling in.
Speaker 1: Really appreciate it, and thanks for holding.
Speaker 2: For so long, you know, Okay, you're welcome.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. So there's so many different aspects
Speaker 1: to relationships. And I have been you know, I've never
Speaker 1: I've never had to deal with the mental issues, you know,
Speaker 1: for very long, and I don't I don't know how
Speaker 1: I would imagine, as Pat was saying, it's almost impossible
Speaker 1: to deal with it, especially if you don't communicate, and
Speaker 1: then there's alcohol and pills and stuff and right too, Now,
Speaker 1: how do you get through that?
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, well it's going to have to How
Speaker 3: you get through it is is the person again with
Speaker 3: the bipolar disorder, has to take ownership, and they have
Speaker 3: to be responsible, and they have to work the plan.
Speaker 3: They need to have individual therapy and and be on
Speaker 3: their medication. But the problem is is that a lot
Speaker 3: of people with bipolar disorder, they start feeling better and
Speaker 3: so they stop taking their medication, right, and then it's
Speaker 3: just a vicious cycle.
Speaker 1: And then they comes out of the blue, right and
Speaker 1: like all of a sudden, this person ATTACKSI, their partner, right,
Speaker 1: stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Family therapy so hard couples and family therapy is a
Speaker 3: very important intervention when you're dealing with bipolar disorder and
Speaker 3: serious mental illness.
Speaker 1: And then you have kids, and then the kids are
Speaker 1: you know, involved in that as well. It's it's a
Speaker 1: tough situation. We will touch on that a little bit more.
Speaker 1: So we're ending the show because we've had some real
Speaker 1: positive calls today and we've talked about, like, you know,
Speaker 1: what are the what are the three green flags that
Speaker 1: are critical to a relationship. We went over that growth, kindness,
Speaker 1: and compassion, and those are those are pretty you can
Speaker 1: see how those would would produce a good, happy, successful couple.
Speaker 1: But if you're not there yet, right, So you see
Speaker 1: couples that come into for therapy all the time that
Speaker 1: are on the verge of breaking up, sure, right, so
Speaker 1: they don't have the growth, the kindness, the compassion that
Speaker 1: healthy couples do. So we talked about this and I
Speaker 1: want to leave today on a really positive note on
Speaker 1: what works to get people back on track, to get
Speaker 1: them to those three green flags when they're going through
Speaker 1: tough times.
Speaker 3: So I asked them that suppose that they went to
Speaker 3: sleep tonight and a miracle happens, and there they're asleep.
Speaker 3: They don't know that the miracles happened. But a miracle happens,
Speaker 3: and the relationship problems that brought them in just dissipate.
Speaker 3: And so they wake up tomorrow morning, and what is
Speaker 3: the very first thing they noticed that will let them
Speaker 3: know something's different in their relationship, is what I asked them.
Speaker 1: So they go to bed and they suggest that, hey,
Speaker 1: a miracle, a miracles is happening.
Speaker 4: Is happening.
Speaker 3: It's happened, but they are asleep, so they don't know it.
Speaker 3: So the morning they wake up and they sell and
Speaker 3: I want them to be very specific about what is
Speaker 3: it that's different. I've had couples say things like, my
Speaker 3: partner will look at me and give me a kiss
Speaker 3: and say good morning instead of getting on their phone.
Speaker 4: Oh that's a good one, right.
Speaker 3: I've had a couple say that my partner would go
Speaker 3: down and start and you know, and make me a
Speaker 3: cup of coffee and bring it up to me in bed.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So, So what it does is I ask each of
Speaker 3: them that and it creates a miracle day, and then
Speaker 3: I will have them the assignment is, Okay, over the
Speaker 3: next week, one of you, both of you, at certain points,
Speaker 3: do something out of that miracle day for your partner.
Speaker 4: Okay. So it could be.
Speaker 1: Making dinner and having it ready and like a romantic
Speaker 1: table setup and and that would be a miracle if
Speaker 1: you haven't had that in a while. That's right, right,
Speaker 1: I love it. So you're focusing on something that, Wow,
Speaker 1: I can't believe.
Speaker 4: You did this for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of a moment. Yeah, okay, And so all right,
Speaker 1: so that's one. So miracle day day one. What's another one?
Speaker 3: I have them keep a record for me of of
Speaker 3: times that they have have caught their partner doing something right. Ooh,
Speaker 3: I love that, and then bring that record back into
Speaker 3: the session the next week so that we can talk
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: So, so catch your partner doing something right, definitely flipping
Speaker 1: the It's almost like a gratitude journal. Instead, it's like,
Speaker 1: instead of looking at what's negative, you train your brain
Speaker 1: that's right to look at something that they did right.
Speaker 4: Wow, what a gift?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Does that work?
Speaker 3: It does work.
Speaker 1: So you have them report back to you on catching
Speaker 1: your partner doing doing something right. What are some of
Speaker 1: the things that they say.
Speaker 3: They'll tell me that that they caught their partner giving
Speaker 3: them a hug, they caught their partner, you know, saying
Speaker 3: I love you. They call their partner just little thing things,
Speaker 3: not little things, big things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, small things add up to big things, right. I
Speaker 1: always say that, you know, foreplate lasts all day long.
Speaker 1: It's how you treat somebody throughout the day. So you
Speaker 1: can't be mean to somebody and then expect magic in
Speaker 1: the bedroom or a miracle in the bedroom. Right, You
Speaker 1: really have to be consistent with you know, even just
Speaker 1: walking by and putting your hand.
Speaker 3: On her back, that's right, That would be catching your
Speaker 3: partner doing something right, because that communicates fond, fondness, right, admiration, love,
Speaker 3: all of the positive?
Speaker 1: Is it mostly when in the beginning, when when couples
Speaker 1: do this, is it well, he took out the trash
Speaker 1: and I didn't have to tell him.
Speaker 4: Is it kind of like that?
Speaker 3: Or is that can be? That can be sure? That
Speaker 3: can be a miracle, right for some people.
Speaker 1: I would hope that that if somebody looked and caught
Speaker 1: caught me doing something, it would be nicer than that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I expectations, right right.
Speaker 4: Okay, so miracle day.
Speaker 1: And then catch your partner doing something right, write it
Speaker 1: down and report back to.
Speaker 4: You, right, And then what's the third thing?
Speaker 3: And then I assigned them to do the high low
Speaker 3: check in. So this is the highlight of their day.
Speaker 3: This is at the end of the day after and
Speaker 3: it needs to be you know, all the distractions, all
Speaker 3: the phones, all the devices are set aside, it's just there.
Speaker 3: So they meet up, they meet up, they talk face
Speaker 3: to face and they say, this was the highlight of
Speaker 3: my day, and this was the low point of my day.
Speaker 1: And does it have anything to do with them or
Speaker 1: is it specifically what happened in their day?
Speaker 3: Just what happened in their day.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 1: So the highlight of my day was I did really
Speaker 1: great presentation at work and I felt good about myself, yes, right, yes.
Speaker 4: And and the low part of the day was I.
Speaker 1: Didn't work out. Yeah, I didn't have time to work out,
Speaker 1: and I feel like I missed that right, something like that,
Speaker 1: right exactly.
Speaker 3: And what it's doing is it's it's putting you in
Speaker 3: touch with it's it's it's vulnerability, it's forcing you to
Speaker 3: be vulnerable with each other.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, you and look at it that way.
Speaker 3: And then it's also giving you a chance to empathize
Speaker 3: with each other, okay, right, And it's given you a
Speaker 3: chance to ask, how can I help make your day?
Speaker 3: How can I help support you?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Right, especially during the low point? What is it that
Speaker 3: you need? What can I do right now to help support.
Speaker 7: I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that because you know, even when I say,
Speaker 1: even when I was saying the low part of my
Speaker 1: day kind of felt like, oh man, that I really
Speaker 1: have to address that. And it does make me feel like,
Speaker 1: oh I had a low part of my day. And
Speaker 1: then if you say it out loud, maybe your partner cares.
Speaker 3: Yeah right.
Speaker 4: I love that. Okay. So how effective is this for
Speaker 4: the couples that do do it well?
Speaker 3: It's very effective because if they do it consistently, then
Speaker 3: it gets them in a pattern of checking in with
Speaker 3: each other emotionally. That's really the key. It's an emotional intervention.
Speaker 3: It's really getting them to talk and to be vulnerable
Speaker 3: and to share and to get out of the day
Speaker 3: to day hustle and bustle to.
Speaker 1: Bring it back to their relationship, to bring it back
Speaker 1: to focus on.
Speaker 4: Okay, we have.
Speaker 1: Kids, we have work, we have dogs with the house,
Speaker 1: we have some lah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: Everybody has all that, right.
Speaker 3: They're looking at each other too, They're not. I can't
Speaker 3: tell you how many people report to me that I say,
Speaker 3: what does the evening look like for you?
Speaker 7: All?
Speaker 3: It's people on the couch on their phones. Couples, couples
Speaker 3: are They'll say, yeah, we're sitting next to each other,
Speaker 3: but we're not looking at each other. We're facing forward
Speaker 3: and we're facing down looking at our phones.
Speaker 1: See listen, I'm one of these people that you know
Speaker 1: have an addiction to my friend.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I'm not addicted to a lot of things.
Speaker 4: My phone is one of them.
Speaker 1: It's terrible, it is absolutely terrible. But when I am
Speaker 1: with somebody, I put my phone down, right. I mean,
Speaker 1: even you and I have been face to face talking
Speaker 1: for the last three hours. It is it's it's we're
Speaker 1: blessed by these phones, but it's also a curse, and
Speaker 1: it is a curse for our relationships too. There are
Speaker 1: people that I know that that their their sons and Mason,
Speaker 1: mainly the sons don't know how to talk to women.
Speaker 4: They don't know how to ask for a date.
Speaker 1: They don't know how to go out because it's it's
Speaker 1: it's it's phone, it's cell phones, it's it's social media,
Speaker 1: is gaming, and it's all computerized, and they don't go
Speaker 1: out and they don't know how to communicate with real
Speaker 1: people in the real world. That's right, and even couples,
Speaker 1: even our age. You know, I'm a little bit older
Speaker 1: than you, but have have grown up without phones and
Speaker 1: been outside and learned how to communicate with people way back,
Speaker 1: because I didn't even get a phone until I was, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, twenty two or twenty three years old,
Speaker 1: twenty four or something like that.
Speaker 4: So in those days were so nice.
Speaker 1: I mean they were, and I love my phone, but
Speaker 1: it's it's nice to not have this electric box in
Speaker 1: my you know, in my hand all the time and
Speaker 1: looking at it.
Speaker 4: It does it is can be a relationship killer.
Speaker 3: And texting. Texting is also I think can be a
Speaker 3: relationship killer when you're texting your friends, you're texting people,
Speaker 3: and you're not talking to your partner right.
Speaker 1: Yes, your fantasy football league right scores or you know,
Speaker 1: I have I have several group texts with my sisters,
Speaker 1: with my friends, and sometimes I'm like, holy smokes, yeah,
Speaker 1: pictures of all my nieces, nephews and their grandkids, the grandkids.
Speaker 4: You know, it's non stop and yeah, that can. That
Speaker 4: can get to be a lot.
Speaker 3: And you can lose the emotional content through texting because
Speaker 3: you can't you don't have the the you know, the cues,
Speaker 3: the vote, the verbal cues, the in person right.
Speaker 1: The nonverbals, yeah, the non verbal Yeah, I can. That's
Speaker 1: a very good point. So I have one more questions.
Speaker 1: We're almost out of time. We just have a couple
Speaker 1: more minutes. And this has been so great, Wes, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for coming. And you know, our next one,
Speaker 1: our next Saturday is going to be October twenty fifth,
Speaker 1: or whatever the time is.
Speaker 6: On that.
Speaker 4: There was a question that I thought was so great.
Speaker 1: Somebody said, if you asked this one question to your partner,
Speaker 1: and I think it can be asked to your best
Speaker 1: friend or your sister, or certainly your spouse or your
Speaker 1: mom or anything like that. If you ask this one
Speaker 1: question to have a really good relationship, but you'd have
Speaker 1: to listen to the answer. What's it like having me
Speaker 1: as a partner, right, and somebody just be so vulnerable
Speaker 1: to ask that question and sit back and listen.
Speaker 4: Wow, just hit me with it, Hit me with it?
Speaker 4: What what's it like?
Speaker 1: And then you know, I would imagine the conversation could
Speaker 1: go like this. Sometimes you're amazing, sometimes you listen, sometimes
Speaker 1: you don't. Sometimes you're emotional, and sometimes you're rock steady
Speaker 1: and you're like the biggest, best, beautiful tree that can
Speaker 1: be rooted and support our family. Sometimes it's you're judgmental
Speaker 1: and it's hard to talk to you, and sometimes you
Speaker 1: project so much of your fear onto me that it's
Speaker 1: hard to breathe.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, it just depends on how deep you want
Speaker 1: to go. And is it okay to say, can we
Speaker 1: take a break? I know I asked the question. I
Speaker 1: want answer, I want to hear it. I'm feeling all
Speaker 1: kinds of energy. Can we take a break and come
Speaker 1: back and meet you in five minutes so I can
Speaker 1: just breathe through this so I can listen more.
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Would that be accepted?
Speaker 3: Absolutely? I tell couples to take a fifteen minute break
Speaker 3: because it helps their brain, because the brain basically goes
Speaker 3: into that fight flight or freeze response, And you can't
Speaker 3: regulate your emotions when you're flooded, when you're flooded with
Speaker 3: so much why did you.
Speaker 4: Ask the question?
Speaker 1: And you really want to know Sometimes if somebody is very,
Speaker 1: very honest, and even if they're saying it in the
Speaker 1: nicest possible way, yep, it's still hard to hear.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is that? What a great question though, that
Speaker 3: is such a great question. Yeah, I would love to
Speaker 3: ask that question for someone. Maybe I'll ask you that, Donna,
Speaker 3: after the show tonight, I'll ask you, what were you
Speaker 3: what was it like to be what was it like
Speaker 3: to be?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 3: For having on the show tonight, Well.
Speaker 1: I just can't tell you how much, uh, how much
Speaker 1: I appreciated this show. We talk a lot about you know,
Speaker 1: politics on the station, and we talk a lot about
Speaker 1: you know sports, clearly this is a big sports station,
Speaker 1: and we talk about you know, topical stuff and and
Speaker 1: all kinds of everything. It ranges and and to have
Speaker 1: a show just about relationships and how we can build
Speaker 1: into each other and how we can focus on how
Speaker 1: the relationship with ourself, which is really the most important one,
Speaker 1: how we can get stronger and less offensive and be
Speaker 1: more connected within ourselves. So that so that we can
Speaker 1: be better, better partners for you know, the loved ones
Speaker 1: in our lives and let them know how much we
Speaker 1: care about them. Because I'm telling you right now, there's
Speaker 1: nothing better than making sure that the people that you
Speaker 1: love know that you love them. That's nothing better than that. Yeah, Wes,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming. Thank you for all
Speaker 1: of our callers. It has been a joy and a pleasure.
Speaker 1: And we're going to be back on the twenty fifth.
Speaker 1: I'm out of town, but uh so I'll be I'll
Speaker 1: be on with Sterling the following weekend and you know,
Speaker 1: go go Bangles. We got the game day tomorrow, so
Speaker 1: we still have sports here. Thanks so much, Thanks Joe
Speaker 1: for walking us through this. You have been awesome as well.
Speaker 1: It's Donna Dan, doctor West on a awesome Saturday Night,
Speaker 1: seven hundred WLW, Cincinnati,