WEBVTT - 12-18-25 Sloan with Mark Enselaco

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<v Speaker 1>You want to be an American.

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<v Speaker 2>He's got flown out seven hundred WLW buried in the

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<v Speaker 2>news and quite a bit of news US the allegedly

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<v Speaker 2>slow cycle.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>More domestic terrorism aplot diserupted. FBI orre I said four

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<v Speaker 2>people as part of a radical pro Palestini extremist group

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<v Speaker 2>arrested for planning an attack on New Year's Even Los Angeles.

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<v Speaker 2>They caught them with IEDs that they're making complex pipe

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<v Speaker 2>bombs with The FBI said they're going to target five

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<v Speaker 2>separate locations on Christmas Eve across the Los Angeles including

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<v Speaker 2>two big US companies as well as ice agents, vehicles

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<v Speaker 2>and the like. And so if you look at domestic terrorism,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, in our lifetime, if you're a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>older anyway, you call terrorism from abroad right nine to eleven,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera. And we are clearly in the age of

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<v Speaker 2>domestic terrorism. Over the last ten years, investigations have grown

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<v Speaker 2>over three hundred and fifty percent, and in that time period,

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<v Speaker 2>investing open investigations, meaning there's probable cause more than quadrupled.

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<v Speaker 2>Mark Nzilaco's here. He is a director of the International

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<v Speaker 2>Studies Program at the University of Dayton, also founder the

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<v Speaker 2>Human Rights Studies Program. There, Mark, welcome back to the show.

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<v Speaker 2>How are you.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm fine.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm doing fine. Yeah. For those who you know, we're

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<v Speaker 2>worried about foreign terrorism, it's domestic terrorism. It's been the

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<v Speaker 2>story of the narrative for a lot longer than that.

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<v Speaker 2>What do we know about this group, the Turtle Island

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<v Speaker 2>Liberation Front, the t i LF. It sounds almost like

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<v Speaker 2>a I don't know a Clancy novel, right, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of name alone strikes me as Turtle Island

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<v Speaker 2>Liberation Front, very left wing, very terroristic group.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I had that one wasn't on my radar because

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's small, and you're correct, the name, the Turtle

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<v Speaker 1>Islands Freedom Front. It doesn't inspire, you know, it sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like a I don't know a vacation spot.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, Abertle Island Liberation.

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<v Speaker 1>Front and scenes. From what I saw about the explosives

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<v Speaker 1>there was they had gone to the desert that brought

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<v Speaker 1>precursor chemicals to make either the multile cocktails or ID.

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<v Speaker 1>They did not seem to be sophisticated, very sophisticated explosive devices.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to downplay them at all, but They

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<v Speaker 1>don't seem like the truck bombs of you know, uh, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know the truck bombs of Oklahoma City.

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<v Speaker 2>They were just basic black powder, weren't.

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<v Speaker 1>They Yeah, something like that. Uh. And you know, their

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<v Speaker 1>their operational securities not very good. The f I can

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<v Speaker 1>track them complain things, and I don't, but I don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to demand don't diminish the threat. We have thought

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<v Speaker 1>for a decade or so that the rise of sort

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<v Speaker 1>of neo Nazi type right wing extremists, anti government, anti immigrant,

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<v Speaker 1>anti Semitic groups. But no, the left wing groups is

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<v Speaker 1>still out there, particularly after Hamas launches homicidal attack. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's genocidal attack from Gaza. There's been increases of anti

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<v Speaker 1>semic violent threats. We had firebamb on the mayor, the governor, Yeah, Pennsylvania.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, the threat less wing, the streament has always

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<v Speaker 1>been out there. It's incredible you said it this last

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<v Speaker 1>time I was on your program. Step when you look

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<v Speaker 1>at the number of people, the percentage in the thirties

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<v Speaker 1>who believe that political violence is justifiable and use the

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<v Speaker 1>time for political lives, I think that's thirty percent of

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<v Speaker 1>the population thinking about using violence to settle political grievances.

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<v Speaker 2>It's amazing we got in that era, and so with

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<v Speaker 2>this TLF group that their ideology is basically free Palestine,

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<v Speaker 2>free Hawaii, free Puerto Rico, and free the world from

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<v Speaker 2>American imperialism. By blowing up targets in Los Angeles, one

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<v Speaker 2>just scratches their head as someone outside this going hot,

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<v Speaker 2>how do you connect all those dusts together to the

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<v Speaker 2>point while we're going to free Hawaii, which is a state,

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<v Speaker 2>free Puerto Rico, by blowing up Los Angeles. You just

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<v Speaker 2>wonder what kind of world these people live in. And

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<v Speaker 2>that's a scary part. Is there a when I investigate

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<v Speaker 2>these people? Is there a mental component to this thing?

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<v Speaker 2>Because it sounds.

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<v Speaker 1>Crazy, you know, it's it's very difficult to understand the

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<v Speaker 1>causes of it. Now that I've been believed for a

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<v Speaker 1>very long time that ideas and ideologies are behind the violence.

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<v Speaker 1>You know that the lies can kill, whether they're coming

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<v Speaker 1>from the propaganda's coming from the left or the right.

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<v Speaker 1>But you're seeing something about many of the perpetrators. People

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<v Speaker 1>are arrestler. People commit these crimes are they're socially isolated,

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<v Speaker 1>they're narcissistic, and they're neahilistic. They don't believe in nothing,

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<v Speaker 1>and but there's some joy they can get, some sense

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<v Speaker 1>of personal satisfaction they derive from belonging to some organization

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<v Speaker 1>of Total Island Liberation front. I mean, for Christ's sakes,

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<v Speaker 1>because one, I want a sense of purpose, a sense

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<v Speaker 1>of meaning, and and and so it's a deep psychological

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<v Speaker 1>and sociological problem that those of us who study domestic

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<v Speaker 1>terrorism are trying to understand and try to come to

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<v Speaker 1>terms with.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then you Mark and Slucky, you put these

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<v Speaker 2>people out there and give them a browser, and they

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<v Speaker 2>find each other, and that that really is the problem.

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<v Speaker 2>That's all we're seeing arise in all this. Because now

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<v Speaker 2>you may have the most crazy views in the world

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<v Speaker 2>about stuff, whether it's terrorism, whether it's I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>sexual proclivities, anything like that, you can find kindred spirits

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<v Speaker 2>online and form a group.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, certainly true. You know when you see these these

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<v Speaker 1>small little groups that are very amateuristic, right, that scares me.

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<v Speaker 1>It worries me deeply. But you talk about communicating to

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<v Speaker 1>one another. I'd rather have a conspiracy of five, six,

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<v Speaker 1>seven people because the more people involved in conspiracy, more

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<v Speaker 1>likely the authorities can discover it. What really terrifies me.

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<v Speaker 1>Is the true lone wolf. Whether they're inspired by isis

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<v Speaker 1>like these people in our Australia or inspired by something else.

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<v Speaker 1>They act alone and the radicalization is deep. It's linked

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<v Speaker 1>to psychological issues as well. They come from come from

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<v Speaker 1>dysfunctional families and that is a phenomenon that's very difficult

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<v Speaker 1>for us to monitor, particularly in the society like ours

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<v Speaker 1>that believes in freedom, civil liberties. So we're you know,

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<v Speaker 1>body Beach scares the heck out of me. We had

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<v Speaker 1>that right in twenty eighteen, right the Tree of Life

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<v Speaker 1>in Pittsburgh, eleven dead by a lone person, Robert Power.

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<v Speaker 1>So what we just saw linked to a Holica celebration

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<v Speaker 1>is to people, look myself, monitor this very very disconcerted,

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<v Speaker 1>very frightening.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. He's doctor Mark a Tlaco, University of Date and

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<v Speaker 2>former International Studies program director, also a founder Human Rights

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<v Speaker 2>Studies program, expert in political terrorism. And as we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about today with the thwarted plot in Los Angeles New

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<v Speaker 2>Year's Eve, five separate locations in LA targeted by this

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<v Speaker 2>Turtle Island Liberation Front groom, extreme left wing group. We're

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<v Speaker 2>making IEDs in the desert and or stopped by the

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<v Speaker 2>FBI because of the work of a confidential inflorment. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we just had the Bondi Beach shooting, the

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<v Speaker 2>massacre there, and we talk about domestic terrorism this morning,

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<v Speaker 2>which has been a concern now for the past decade

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<v Speaker 2>and a half at least. We've gone from international terrorism

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<v Speaker 2>to domestic terrorism now. And for the reasons we've just described,

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<v Speaker 2>this group plan mark to attack corporate targets two US

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<v Speaker 2>companies opposed to like government buildings. And you know, obviously

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<v Speaker 2>the ICE was involved in this too as well. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not solely based on corporate targets as well, but attacking

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<v Speaker 2>capitalist infrastructure rather than people. Are they following like that indicaate,

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<v Speaker 2>like they're following a specific playbook here, or they just

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<v Speaker 2>determined that these two ES companies for whatever reason were

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<v Speaker 2>easier targets, or take us through what you think might

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<v Speaker 2>the selection process might be.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, this is very similar to the domestic terrorism in

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<v Speaker 1>the nineteen seventies, which was driven by the left right.

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<v Speaker 1>So you had the weather Underground, the weather man organizations

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<v Speaker 1>like this. You remember they blew up a townhouse in

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<v Speaker 1>Manhattan when they're making a bomb and malfunction and it

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<v Speaker 1>was killed in Dustin's. Dustin Hoffman's apartment was right next

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<v Speaker 1>to the So these people were out there. So they

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<v Speaker 1>had this crazy ideology that capitalism. They're Marxists, right, So

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<v Speaker 1>capitalism is the root of all evil, and that means

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<v Speaker 1>corporate capitalism. And so you turned corporations and the letter

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<v Speaker 1>bombs were sent to major corporations, and of course symbols

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<v Speaker 1>of American imperialism, the military, right, the Pentagon, your bomb,

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<v Speaker 1>the Pentegon. I remember having a conversation with Bernard Adorn

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<v Speaker 1>was convicted of planting a bomb at the depending On

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<v Speaker 1>to get into her ideology. So there was this crazy idea.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you said a minute ago, how do you

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<v Speaker 1>link free Puerto Rico to free to liberal? They can?

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<v Speaker 1>Their ideology is such they can for us. It's it

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<v Speaker 1>takes leaps and bounds to move from one idea to

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<v Speaker 1>the other. That they all blown together, so that I'm

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<v Speaker 1>worried about. You know, we saw a while back the

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<v Speaker 1>alone individual shoots to dad U Healthcare CEO in New York.

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<v Speaker 1>Because you're striking a blow. You're striking a blow for

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<v Speaker 1>the revolution. The language, you know, I study of their language.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, these are crimes, these are revolutionary acts, right,

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<v Speaker 1>or they're armed propaganda. I mean they've they've got a vocabulary,

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<v Speaker 1>entire glossary of ideas that justify violence. And you read

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<v Speaker 1>their their their their, their statements right their community case,

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<v Speaker 1>they're absurd, they're ridiculous. But yeah, you know, for a

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<v Speaker 1>long time, you've I talked about this several times. The

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<v Speaker 1>threat has been on the right, the anti Semitic groups

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<v Speaker 1>and theo Nazi groups, the anti immigration groups. But hey,

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<v Speaker 1>left still out there and there's reasons to strike a

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<v Speaker 1>blow for the revolutionism.

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<v Speaker 2>Do we see the pendulum swing in these times? Mark

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<v Speaker 2>Ensilaco in that when you have a Democrat or democrats

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<v Speaker 2>electic control of the government, that you start to see

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<v Speaker 2>a rise on the right of domestic terrorism. And conversely,

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<v Speaker 2>when it appears Republicans control, everything goes on the left

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<v Speaker 2>rise up.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a good, workable hypothesis, and it's not quite

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<v Speaker 1>as simple as that, but yeah, I mean, when, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>when Barack Obama was elected I heard African American was

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<v Speaker 1>elected president, you saw a rapid increase in the numbers

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<v Speaker 1>of individuals who joined either anti Semitic groups, no Nazi groups,

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<v Speaker 1>or whatever. So there was that reaction to the sort

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<v Speaker 1>of unpresident thing of an African American becoming uh. I

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<v Speaker 1>remember the brother lie right, the Birther stuff false right, right?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so that that that narrative provides the basis for

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<v Speaker 1>a justification of the violent tacks. So yeah, I mainly

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<v Speaker 1>how to put this, I think we're not seeing a

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<v Speaker 1>real number increase the number of left wing groups, but

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's quite possible most of the violence lately has

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<v Speaker 1>been has been on the right.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, And and maybe it is because of that

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<v Speaker 2>starting to go the other way. And and both those

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<v Speaker 2>groups on the right and left can touch hands because

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<v Speaker 2>of their unhinged beliefs and whatever. Vilification as that comes

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<v Speaker 2>from the candidates and and politics to party system as well,

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<v Speaker 2>is your job is to vilify the other side. And

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<v Speaker 2>then there are people on the extremes and the margins,

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<v Speaker 2>uh that take that to an extreme level, and they

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<v Speaker 2>just continue to fuel it when they talk about you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you know that's attacking or killing your opponents. The other

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<v Speaker 2>thing going I hear too, Mark. I wanted to bring

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<v Speaker 2>this up is most speaking of terrorism, Trump just designated

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<v Speaker 2>Venezuela a foreign terrorist organization and ordered a blockade of

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<v Speaker 2>all US anctioned oil tanker service in the country. Kind

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<v Speaker 2>of an escalation in this to a degree in Venezuela

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<v Speaker 2>just came out of the blue as to the threat

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<v Speaker 2>that they pose. And I think what is clearly what's

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<v Speaker 2>going on here, and tell me if I'm wrong, is

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<v Speaker 2>that the pretext is drugs. Because we all hate drugs.

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<v Speaker 2>We're anti drug we warn drugs, ventanyls killing our society.

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<v Speaker 2>It's universally condemned. We target drug boats first. That provides

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<v Speaker 2>our political and military cover because you know, administrations have

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<v Speaker 2>found broad public support for actions against drug traffickers and

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<v Speaker 2>drug dealers. And so now we've moved to the oil

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<v Speaker 2>confiscation control part, which was probably the whole reason we

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<v Speaker 2>did this in the first place.

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<v Speaker 1>True, well, this Venezuelan situation is puzzling and it's worrisome.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, the war on drugs, yeah, scent and al

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<v Speaker 1>is killing Americans by the thousands, and yet the President

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<v Speaker 1>United States pardons the former president of Honduras who had

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<v Speaker 1>turned Honduras into an arco state. That's inexplicable to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Americans need to play attention to what's going to slow

0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:24.280
<v Speaker 1>burn in Venezuela, particularly MAGA supporters who sincerely wanted the

0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.440
<v Speaker 1>United States out of endless wars. Well, it looks like

0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.240
<v Speaker 1>the president's dragging us into a regional war. Now. Granted,

0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.320
<v Speaker 1>Venezuela won't take along the overthrow off the Marines land,

0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:38.480
<v Speaker 1>but the naval, the military build up is incredible. And

0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:40.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, let me give you a piece of news

0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:45.240
<v Speaker 1>that was buried the sky. A blue a jet, a

0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:49.800
<v Speaker 1>pressenger jet was flying from Coursau to New York and

0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:54.080
<v Speaker 1>a US Air Force fuel refueling tanker cut it off

0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:57.560
<v Speaker 1>with the two miles over twenty seconds from miror collision.

0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:01.040
<v Speaker 1>But the plan had its transpond off and wasn't pinging.

0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.240
<v Speaker 1>It was involved in a colandestine operation militant when we

0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:09.600
<v Speaker 1>nearly had a midair collision. Related to remember, President said

0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:13.679
<v Speaker 1>a few weeks ago that airlines should consider the airspace

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:18.560
<v Speaker 1>in Venezuela's off limits as too dangerous. I mean, what's

0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:25.800
<v Speaker 1>going on is something that needs to be paid attention to. Yeah,

0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:31.000
<v Speaker 1>but clearly the the oil is meant to pring pressure

0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:36.800
<v Speaker 1>on Cuba and around in North Korea too. Uh So,

0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.320
<v Speaker 1>on the one hand, you've got the the shootings of

0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.600
<v Speaker 1>the boats get the boat singings. Three more well, in

0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 1>the last few days, three more boats were blown up

0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:51.960
<v Speaker 1>by by our aircraft. But now so there's that that's

0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:55.240
<v Speaker 1>one drugs, but the rest of the president's action seemed

0:14:55.240 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 1>to be to destabilized to overthrow Maduro. So Americans need

0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:02.320
<v Speaker 1>to pay attention and decide do we want to go

0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:06.040
<v Speaker 1>in this direction? And then you know, there's a lot

0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:08.400
<v Speaker 1>of people pay much attention to it. But the whole

0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.400
<v Speaker 1>issue over war crimes in that double tap the first

0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:15.080
<v Speaker 1>of September, our destruction of the one vote where there's

0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 1>a second strike twenty minutes later killed two and the

0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:23.360
<v Speaker 1>Secretary of Defense, I won't say secretary of war, Secretary

0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.680
<v Speaker 1>of Defense refused to release the raw footage of that. Yeah,

0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.800
<v Speaker 1>so there are things that really Americans, you and I

0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:35.480
<v Speaker 1>have seen the ebbs and flow of American politics. Recognize

0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.560
<v Speaker 1>the importance of our institutions and their principles and our norms,

0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:39.720
<v Speaker 1>and those are a thread.

0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.400
<v Speaker 2>But that's the danger of the times in which you're

0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.240
<v Speaker 2>in because you know you have to pledge allegiance to

0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:48.920
<v Speaker 2>as opposed to the Constitution. It's one individual in this case,

0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.520
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump, And if you criticize that say, you know,

0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:53.840
<v Speaker 2>you're thrown out of the collective herd or somehow you're

0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:58.040
<v Speaker 2>seen as an enemy. But yeah, there're a problem here

0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:00.560
<v Speaker 2>is just ignoring the Constitution exists for and it's got

0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.960
<v Speaker 2>us thus far. That's probably what we should be looking at. Nonetheless, Yeah,

0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:05.000
<v Speaker 2>final point, go ahead, Mark.

0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:07.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know, back to the earlier point you made

0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.480
<v Speaker 1>with the rise of the left, that was a bit

0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.480
<v Speaker 1>of a surprise. We knew the right was acting, but

0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.280
<v Speaker 1>I sort of I did imagine that the left would

0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:24.000
<v Speaker 1>radicalize because I've got three more years of Trump. Absolutely,

0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:27.120
<v Speaker 1>and other people believe he's destroying the constitution, he's an incipiate,

0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:31.080
<v Speaker 1>the autocrat, he's pro potent, et cetera, et cetera. If

0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:33.840
<v Speaker 1>you believe that that the president is really the danger,

0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:38.120
<v Speaker 1>that's that's that's a recipe for for for insurrections.

0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we've dehumanized and made the made the you know,

0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 2>the figurehead. He's the problem and he's he's going to

0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.360
<v Speaker 2>destroy bus I said that he's destroying America. Uh, people

0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.520
<v Speaker 2>like this. Hear that in this Turtle Island Liberation Front,

0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:51.600
<v Speaker 2>and they're going to take that to an extreme. He's

0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:55.600
<v Speaker 2>doctor Mark Ansilaco University Dayton political terrorism expert Mark always

0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.880
<v Speaker 2>enjoyed the condo. Thanks again, happy how they same to you?

0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:00.480
<v Speaker 2>All right, take care. Let me get a time out in.

0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 2>We're running light. We got to get some news in.

0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:06.160
<v Speaker 2>We got weather moving in. We had fifty below zero

0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:09.480
<v Speaker 2>and six inches of snow a couple days ago. Now

0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.400
<v Speaker 2>we got all the snow melting and warm and it's

0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.359
<v Speaker 2>gonna rain, that's gonna turn icy again. Welcome to Cincinnati,

0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:15.280
<v Speaker 2>baby seven under w