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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Doctor Wendywall Show on KFI AM

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Speaker 1: six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You know

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Speaker 1: a lot of people don't know that I'm an immigrant,

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Speaker 1: that I went through the process right. I had to

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Speaker 1: get different visas. You asked me what an H one is,

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Speaker 1: what a J one is? I know, I know about

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Speaker 1: those things. And then a green card, and you know

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Speaker 1: what green card's last? Green card, for those Americans don't know,

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Speaker 1: is a landed immigrant status, meaning that you can work.

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Speaker 1: It's usually a ten year work visa, but you can't vote.

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Speaker 1: So when I got to my end of my second

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Speaker 1: green card twenty years in this country, I suddenly said,

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Speaker 1: I want a voice. I want to be able to vote.

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Speaker 1: So I became an American in two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 1: I still retain my Canadian citizenship, but there's a difference

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Speaker 1: between my story and the story of most immigrants in

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Speaker 1: this country. I can pass I have white skin and

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Speaker 1: blue eyes, and believe it or not. When I first

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Speaker 1: landed my first job as a news reporter and news anchor,

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Speaker 1: my news director sent me to a voice coach so

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Speaker 1: I would lose my Canadian accent. Let me get on

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Speaker 1: the phone with my brother's e and let me tell

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Speaker 1: you what happens around there when we go out and

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Speaker 1: aboaut the hosey. But for now, I don't get to

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Speaker 1: say progress and process any more. I say progress and

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Speaker 1: process because I was taught to speak like an American,

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Speaker 1: so I could fully pass. In some ways, it's a luxury.

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Speaker 1: In some ways, I feel frustrated because there is a

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Speaker 1: big cultural difference between me and most white Americans because

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Speaker 1: of my development. However, I know it's a privilege and

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Speaker 1: that I walk with privilege. Did you know that over

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Speaker 1: seventy million immigrants and children of immigrants call the United

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Speaker 1: States home? Now, I'm a professor of psychology and I'm

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Speaker 1: always interested in mental health stories. Did you know that

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Speaker 1: immigrant communities face mental health challenges at rates comparable or

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Speaker 1: exceeding the general population. However, they're fifty percent less likely

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Speaker 1: to seek therapy. And it's not just about the stigma.

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Speaker 1: We do know about the stigma, and in fact, in

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Speaker 1: many cultures it's even more. There's even higher stigma. But

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Speaker 1: it's that many mental health frameworks really weren't designed for

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Speaker 1: people who are navigating their own multicultural identities. My next

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Speaker 1: guest has addressed this clearly head on. Her name is

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Speaker 1: Sadia Khan. She herself an immigrant, a social entrepreneur, a mom.

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Speaker 1: And I'm happy to know you, Sadia Khan, that you're

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Speaker 1: also an ardent coffee drinker as I am addicted, addicted,

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Speaker 1: But she's also a founder something called Immigrantly Media and

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Speaker 1: creator of the app Belong on your Own Terms, a

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Speaker 1: mental health tool designed specifically for immigrant identity work. Well, welcome, Sadia.

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Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to have your voice on the Doctor

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Speaker 1: Wendy Walls Show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Doctor Wendy. It's such an honor to be

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Speaker 2: on your show and to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: So what's interesting is that I didn't have, obviously the

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Speaker 1: decree of problems with identity. I just slipped right into

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Speaker 1: American culture. But every once in a while I miss

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Speaker 1: certain Canadian things. And it's not just the food or

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Speaker 1: the language. It's ways of relating to others. You know,

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Speaker 1: Like people will say Canadians are so nice, they're too nice. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's actually a system to the niceness. We know who

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Speaker 1: to be nice to and when and how much. It's

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Speaker 1: almost a trade of nice business and kindness and stories.

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Speaker 1: Sorry about that, but we know that why do you

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Speaker 1: think traditional therapy fails most immigrants.

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Speaker 2: Look, I will treface this with I'm not a psychologist,

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Speaker 2: but what I can see and say from my lived experiences.

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Speaker 2: As you said, there's so many different cultural norms and

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Speaker 2: nuances that US immigrants and even our kids experience, right

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Speaker 2: from language accents to food and memories that our brains form,

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Speaker 2: how we code switch between languages.

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Speaker 1: I kid you not.

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Speaker 2: I speak five languages and sometimes my mind is all

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Speaker 2: like jumbled up because I'm thinking in five different languages,

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Speaker 2: including English, and a lot of mental health professionals, unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: are not equipped to handle those nuances and to navigate

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Speaker 2: that not just with immigrants, but even their kids, and

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Speaker 2: hence it's very difficult to find people who would understand

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Speaker 2: those cultural intricacies. Now I've been very lucky. I had

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Speaker 2: a great therapist, but believe you me, it was a

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Speaker 2: learning curve. She and I had to understand each other's language,

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Speaker 2: and it took us a few years to get to

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Speaker 2: that sweet spot.

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Speaker 1: You know, I know what you're saying because my therapist

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Speaker 1: of many many years used to accuse me of apologizing

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Speaker 1: too much and literally said that it was like some

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Speaker 1: kind of self esteem issue, and I had to teach

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Speaker 1: her that no, that's Canadian communication. Sorry, I mean we

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Speaker 1: bump into a lamp and say sorry, and it wasn't esteem. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And you know what's funny is because I quote switch

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Speaker 2: and I speak so many languages. Sometimes I'm thinking in

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Speaker 2: one language and then I tried to translate or quote

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Speaker 2: in another. For instance, I'm thinking in Urdu are personal

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Speaker 2: and then I'll code switched to English and my words

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Speaker 2: don't match. So I remember when I first came to

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Speaker 2: the US, I would use this term a lot. I

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Speaker 2: need to do this, and people were always like, why

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Speaker 2: do you need to do this? And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I get it. There's a difference between need and want,

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Speaker 2: and maybe I've been using need in a way that

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Speaker 2: people don't really get.

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Speaker 1: It felt urgent to live, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It isn't as urgent as people think it is. So

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Speaker 2: you're right, you know, understanding those intricies is something that

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Speaker 2: not everybody knows because obviously they've not been exposed to

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Speaker 2: all those multiple cultures.

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Speaker 1: And also something deeper than just language and cultural identity

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Speaker 1: is this idea of intergenerational trauma. And for listeners who

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Speaker 1: aren't familiar with this, let me just explain that epigenetics

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Speaker 1: has shown us that trauma changes genes, and literally you

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Speaker 1: will see higher rates of anxiety and depression in grandchildren

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Speaker 1: who may have never seen the trauma. The most famous

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Speaker 1: study is Jewish grandchildren in Tony, Connecticut from very affluent

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Speaker 1: families have much higher rates of anxiety and depression going

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Speaker 1: back to World War Two, something they never experienced. Right,

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Speaker 1: it changes the genes. And when I was in graduate

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Speaker 1: school Sadia, you'll find this funny. We get. One of

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Speaker 1: our textbooks was something called Ethnicities in Therapy, and it

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Speaker 1: was kind of like a little phone book. You just

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Speaker 1: look up the Let's say it was for therapists. So

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Speaker 1: if you had a patient from a certain country, you

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Speaker 1: look up that country and they tell you a bunch

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Speaker 1: of things that are common, not disorders, but just ways

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Speaker 1: of being that will help the therapist to understands. So

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Speaker 1: of course I get it. And I know that my

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Speaker 1: last name's Walsh, and both my parents were from the

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Speaker 1: East coast of Canada, and they're both Irish Catholics. I'm

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Speaker 1: just going to look up Irish. So I look up

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Speaker 1: Irish and I was shocked. It was like reading a

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Speaker 1: picture of myself very strong women. The men tended to

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Speaker 1: be weak because the crown dominated them. The ones that

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Speaker 1: came over and the potato famine were hearty survivors. And

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Speaker 1: I was just reading this, I'm like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: that's me, that's me, that's me.

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Speaker 2: And wow, many.

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Speaker 1: Years later, I did twenty three and meters and I'm

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Speaker 1: embarrassed to tell you I came out one hundred percent Irish.

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Speaker 1: So there were no mixing these islands that people lived on.

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Speaker 1: They had to mate with their cousins, you know. So,

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Speaker 1: but let us talk more about intergenerational trauma that made

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Speaker 1: maybe the Irish women strong and less dependent on men.

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Speaker 1: But there's also so other things that I'm sure you

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Speaker 1: find in many of the immigrant populations that you deal

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Speaker 1: with in terms of intergenerational trauma. Can you explain?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look the alienation. A lot of times

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Speaker 2: when people think of immigrants, there is this myth of

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Speaker 2: you know, realizing the American dream. You've made it, you're successful,

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Speaker 2: But the cost, especially psychological cost associated with it, is

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Speaker 2: hardly discussed. Right. So I can give you my example.

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Speaker 2: When I came to the US, I spoke the language

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Speaker 2: because I grew up in Pakistan. A country that was

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Speaker 2: British colony before.

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Speaker 1: And I'm going to pause you, Sadia, because my producer

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Speaker 1: is waving at me. I've actually gone over the clock

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Speaker 1: because you hang on one minute, and then we're going

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Speaker 1: to come back and we're going to continue your story.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI

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Speaker 1: AM six forty Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Right now,

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Speaker 1: let's go to the twenty four hour KFI newsroom. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the Dr Wendywall Show on KFI AM six

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Speaker 1: forty Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. I rudely interrupted

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Speaker 1: my guest, Saudia Khan, the owner of Belong on your

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Speaker 1: Own Terms, a new app that is helping immigrant populations

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Speaker 1: deal with the challenges of mental health. Tell me your story.

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Speaker 1: So you came and you were from Pakistan originally.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I could speak language. We came here for college.

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Speaker 2: But even then, Doctor Wendy, there were so many cultural shocks, right.

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Speaker 2: I remember I used to watch Jerry Springer show Can

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Speaker 2: You Believe It? And I thought that everybody in the

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Speaker 2: US was basically like Jerry Springer and his guests. So

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Speaker 2: this idea of where I landed, and then you know

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Speaker 2: cultural intricacies that I did not understand language, not just

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Speaker 2: the language. I could speak the language, but then obviously

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Speaker 2: there are so many things underneath the language, you know,

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Speaker 2: the hints, the intricacies, the nuances that we don't understand.

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Speaker 2: And I used to miss my family so much. And

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Speaker 2: I grew up, not grew up, but I was so

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Speaker 2: depressed in the initial few years. And you two pass

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Speaker 2: that on to your kids. I have two beautiful daughters,

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Speaker 2: but I was young. I had kids here, I did

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Speaker 2: not have my family around, and there were times when

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Speaker 2: I was just trying to get by every single day

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Speaker 2: and not be as involved or not be as present

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Speaker 2: as a mom because I was young, and I was lost,

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Speaker 2: despite again having the education, knowing the language, having grown

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Speaker 2: up watching Hollywood movies, but living those new experiences in

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Speaker 2: a strange place. How always dramatic, no matter how comfortable

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Speaker 2: you are or how much you know theoretically, and I

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Speaker 2: do when I look back, I wish I had an

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Speaker 2: app like the one we have now, or I had

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Speaker 2: sought some kind of help to understand and to ease

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Speaker 2: into a new society and new culture, which unfortunately, unfortunately

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Speaker 2: I did not do at the time.

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Speaker 1: You know my experience, of course, being an immigrant from

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Speaker 1: Canada and America. We always used the term that America

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Speaker 1: was a melting pot and Canada was a salad ball,

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Speaker 1: meaning that we tend in Canada to champion diversity. But

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Speaker 1: here you're expected to melt in. What is identity erasure

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Speaker 1: and how is this a problem?

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Speaker 2: Identity ratio is as you said, and you're absolutely right,

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Speaker 2: expecting that all of us should speak the same language,

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Speaker 2: we should eat the same food, we should act exactly

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Speaker 2: the same. The expectation that somebody is different it's pretty,

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Speaker 2: i guess shocking for the population, which is ironic because

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Speaker 2: America is and this may sound like a cliche, is

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Speaker 2: built by immigrants. And yet the expectation that everybody should

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Speaker 2: behave exactly the same exists even with language, right, there

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Speaker 2: is so much resentment to its people who speak multiple languages.

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Speaker 1: We saw that yesterday, last week, we saw last week

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Speaker 1: and the Super Bowl. Yeah, when Bad Money did his show,

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Speaker 1: and yes, so many people were upset that it was

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Speaker 1: wasn't speaking English. I'm amazed that so many Americans don't

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Speaker 1: understand that Puerto Rico is part of America. The thing.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I'll be honest. So this like selective hate,

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Speaker 2: confuses people like us who are on the receiving end,

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Speaker 2: because sometimes I'm like, Okay, you did not like Bad

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Speaker 2: Bunny's performance. You did not like that incredible cultural creation.

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Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, you eat breeders

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Speaker 2: and tacos, and you like salsa, and you have you know,

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Speaker 2: Friday margaritas, and you use numbers which basically we got

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Speaker 2: them from the Adic world through you know, Latin scholars.

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Speaker 2: So I think the selective heat is something that confuses

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Speaker 2: immigrants like myself, And I'm like, guys, wake up your mind.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it is. It doesn't make sense. It really

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Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. I want to talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about this app and how it works. The app is

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Speaker 1: called Belong on your Own Terms, is it available and

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Speaker 1: what can people use it for?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: The app launched last year in November. And when I

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Speaker 2: say I have put my heart, soul and life into

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Speaker 2: this app, I am not kidding. It's called Belong on

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Speaker 2: your Own Gems. As you said, it's b O YOT

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Speaker 2: and it's something that created for people who are exhausted

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Speaker 2: from constantly adjusting to fit in relationships. Work within their families.

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Speaker 2: So what we are doing dot wend. Instead of telling

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Speaker 2: people how to fix themselves, this app helps them slow

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Speaker 2: down and reflect on what authentic belonging looks like, right

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Speaker 2: without shrinking, without self abandoning, as you put it, like

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Speaker 2: creating a salad instead of the melting pot. And that's

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Speaker 2: what's so unique. It's not that you're talking into a void.

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Speaker 2: You're being guided to a structured journey, journey that actually

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Speaker 2: goes somewhere through prompts and journaling and video and audio prompts.

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Speaker 2: And we are very proud of what we've created. And

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Speaker 2: as I said, I wish I had this app and

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Speaker 2: I first came to the US.

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Speaker 1: You know, I teach developmental psychology, and I have my students,

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Speaker 1: because they're at that great age in early twenties of

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Speaker 1: identity formation. I have them actually do an id identity

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Speaker 1: chart I am A, I am A and come up

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Speaker 1: with five things and then rank them and whether that's religiosity,

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Speaker 1: political affiliation, gender, et cetera. It helps them create a

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Speaker 1: shape of their own identity. And I think that sounds

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Speaker 1: that can increase self confidence just knowing like, hey, oh

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Speaker 1: that's who I am. I get it now right.

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Speaker 2: I get it and I'm comfortable right, Like when you're

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Speaker 2: standing in Starbucks line and somebody mispronounces your name and

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Speaker 2: you're like, ah, do I need to negotiate with them?

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Speaker 2: Do I need to correct them? This app, your companion,

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Speaker 2: your discovery companion, will be like, sure you can. It's

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Speaker 2: okay to tell them what your name sounds like or

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Speaker 2: how it spells or how it's pronounced. So you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 2: This is a companion app that really helps you self regulate,

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Speaker 2: self reflect and know who you actually are.

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Speaker 1: I love it. Well, my husband's named Julio, and I

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Speaker 1: can't tell you how many Starbucks baristas write Julio, Julia,

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Speaker 1: your coffee is ready. Well, he was named after Julius Caesar,

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Speaker 1: so I guess that's where they're going anyway, Sadia, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. Where can people

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Speaker 1: find the app on the app store?

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Speaker 2: So we can find it on the app store, but

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Speaker 2: I'll share a link that they can go to, and

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Speaker 2: this link will direct them to the website and then

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Speaker 2: onto the app. It's called It's studio dot com forward

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Speaker 2: slash Sadia Saadie. That's Studio dot com forward slash Sadia

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Speaker 2: and right now, Dotor Wendy. We are giving twenty percent

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Speaker 2: off through February seventeen, which is great.

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Speaker 1: We will have producer Kayla put the link in on

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Speaker 1: the KFI website on the Doctor Wendy Wall Show page.

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Speaker 1: So thank you so much, Saudia con I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: a pleasure to meet you. Five languages. Boy do I

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Speaker 1: feel stupid now? I got to drink more coffee when

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Speaker 1: we come back. I'm headed to I'm headed to social

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Speaker 1: media to answer your relationship questions. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six forty live

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Speaker 1: everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Right now, let's go to

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Speaker 1: the twenty four hour KFI Newsroom