1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:01,000 Speaker 1: To night. 2 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 2: Michael Brown joins me here, the former FEMA director of 3 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 2: talk show host Michael Brown. Brownie, no, Brownie, You're doing 4 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 2: a heck of a job The Weekend with Michael Brown 5 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 2: broadcasting from Denver, Colorado. 6 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 3: Hey, it's the Weekend with Michael Brown. Really glad to 7 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 3: have you joining in the program today. So let's get started. 8 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 3: You know, we got rules of engagement. If you won't 9 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 3: engage in the program, the easiest rule to remember is 10 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 3: if you want to send me a text message, the 11 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 3: number is three three one zero three three three one 12 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 3: zero three, use the keyword Mike or Michael e the 13 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 3: one tell me anything or ask me anything, three three 14 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 3: one zero three, and don't forget Be sure and follow 15 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 3: me on X at Michael Brown USA, at Michael Brown USA. 16 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: You remember this. 17 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 3: Video of these congress critters. You had Senator Mark Kelly 18 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 3: from Arizona, you had Jason Crowe, the congressman from Colorado, 19 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 3: and the others who appear on video, and to me, 20 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 3: it appears that they're undermining, or at least trying to undermind, 21 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 3: the military chain of command. Can I just find it wrong? 22 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 3: If you don't remember the video here it is is 23 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 3: or Mark Kelly, Representative Chris Delusios, and your. 24 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,279 Speaker 2: Representative Chrissy Hulahan. Congressman Jason Crowe. I was a captain 25 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 2: in the United States Navy, former CIA officer, former Navy, 26 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: former paratrooper and Army ranger, former intelligence officer, former Air Force. 27 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: We want to speak directly to members of the military 28 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 2: and the intelligence community to take risks each day keep 29 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: Americans safe. We know you are under enormous stress and 30 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 2: pressure right now. 31 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 3: Americans trust their military, but that trust is at risk. 32 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 2: This administration is hitting our uniform military and intelligence community 33 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 2: professionals against American citizens. Like us. You all swore an 34 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 2: oath this constitution. Right now, the threats to our constitution 35 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 2: aren't just coming from road, but from right here at home. 36 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 2: Our rows are clear. You can refuse illegal orders. You 37 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: can refuse illegal orders. You must refuse illegal orders. 38 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 3: No one has to carry out orders that violate the 39 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 3: law for our constitution. 40 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: We know this is hard and that it's a difficult 41 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: time to be a public servant. But whether you're serving 42 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 2: in the CIA and the Army or maybe the Air Force, 43 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: your vigilance is critical. I know that we happier back 44 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: because now more than ever, the American people need you. 45 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 2: We need you to stand up for our laws on 46 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 2: constitution and who we are as Americans. Don't give up, 47 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 2: don't give up. Don't give up, don't give up the ship. 48 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 3: And there you have it. Now you may recall and 49 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 3: if you didn't hear I talked about it, and quite frankly, 50 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 3: I don't remember whether I did it on the weekend 51 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 3: program or the weekday program. But if you go to 52 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,639 Speaker 3: the podcast, if you go to Michael Says go here 53 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 3: dot com, or if you already download the podcast, you 54 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 3: can find where I talked about the Uniform Code of 55 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 3: Military Justice. And while they talk about you know, hey, 56 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:56,959 Speaker 3: it's pretty clear that you can disobey an illegal order. Nonetheless, 57 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 3: I pointed out that the process for doing that is 58 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 3: actually quite convoluted, and you need just you know, you 59 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 3: start with your immediate you know, your immediate supervisor if 60 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 3: you will for the private sector, but you're your your 61 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 3: immediate commander, and you work your way up to chain, 62 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 3: and of course the order has to be obviously illegal, 63 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 3: and there's a process. And of course if you if 64 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 3: you just blatantly decide that you think that the order 65 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 3: is illegal, then you're actually violating the Code of Military Justice, 66 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 3: and you're going to be the one that's going to 67 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 3: get in trouble for that. Well, since that video was 68 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 3: released some time ago, the administration has indicated the likelihood 69 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 3: that they are going to maybe open an investigation of 70 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 3: all those caveats holidays. I don't know whether they will 71 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 3: really do it or not. But the more I read 72 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 3: and studied the Uniform Code of Military Justice, the more 73 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 3: I talked about and thought about Title eighteen US Code, 74 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 3: Section twenty three eighty seven, I got to thinking that 75 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 3: perhaps what these people are doing is more than just 76 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 3: trying to get attention. Because my initial thought, my initial 77 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 3: reaction to the video was here are a bunch of Yahoo's, 78 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 3: a bunch of Congress critters who don't like Donald Trump. 79 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 3: They don't like perhaps his attack on the drug vessels 80 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 3: coming out of Venezuela. They don't like what he did 81 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 3: with the Uranians, you know, blowing up the Uranian nuclear sites. 82 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 3: They don't like almost any probably everything that Trump does 83 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 3: they don't like. And that's fine. But if you don't 84 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 3: like what he does, then there's obviously a mechanism to 85 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 3: voice your opinion, either on the Senate or the House floor, 86 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 3: that you don't like what he's doing, you can introduce 87 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 3: legislation to stop. 88 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: Him from doing what he's doing. 89 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 3: But to just go on to a video and then 90 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 3: make this claim that hey, you can and just disobey 91 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 3: in the illegal order really does undermine the military chain 92 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 3: of command. Now, since they'd released the video, there have 93 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 3: been numerous instances where they have all these Yahoo's, Mark 94 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 3: Kelly and Jason Crow and the rest of them have 95 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 3: appeared on television in which they've been asked, for example, 96 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 3: can you can you tell us an example, what is 97 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 3: it that caused you to do this? What are some examples? 98 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 3: And they suddenly get very quiet, and they get a 99 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 3: little discombobulated, they get a little evasive. One they can't 100 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 3: give any singular example, let alone numerous examples of anything 101 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 3: that Donald Trump has said or ordered, or for that matter, 102 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 3: that the Secretary of War or that any commander up 103 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 3: and down the chain of command has ordered the troops 104 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 3: to do which would be considered illegal. And then they 105 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 3: start backtracking, and the backtracking is essentially that, well, we 106 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,239 Speaker 3: were just trying to mind them of what their duty 107 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 3: is really by trying to undermine the military chain of command, Now, 108 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 3: why do I keep going back to that phrase about 109 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 3: undermining the military chain of command? Because again, Title eighteen, 110 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 3: Section twenty three eighty seven of the US Criminal Code, 111 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 3: which is a part of the US the Military Code 112 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 3: of Uniform Justice, makes it illegal to advise, counsel or 113 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 3: in any manner, cause in subordination or refusal of duty 114 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 3: by any member of the military. It's a pretty clear 115 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:42,239 Speaker 3: cut statute. Bear with me, let's go through parts of it. Whoever, 116 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 3: with the intent to interfere with, impair or influence the loyalty, 117 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,119 Speaker 3: the morale, or the discipline of the military or naval 118 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 3: forces of the United States by one advises Council's urges 119 00:06:54,200 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 3: or in any manner, causes or attempts to cause in subordination, disloyalty, mutiny, 120 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 3: or refusal of duty by any member of the military 121 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 3: or naval forces of the United States. That's number one 122 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 3: or number two. Distributes or attempts to distribute any written 123 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 3: or printed material which advises councils or urges in subordination, disloyalty, mutiny, 124 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 3: or refusal of duty by any member of the military 125 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 3: or naval forces of the United States shall be fined 126 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 3: under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, 127 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 3: or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the 128 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 3: United States or any department or agency of the era 129 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 3: thereof for the five years next following his conviction. I emphasize, 130 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 3: shall be fined not more, imprisoned not more than ten years, 131 00:07:55,240 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 3: and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States. Now, 132 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 3: President Trump's first term in office, we all know it 133 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 3: was sabotaged from within, led by James Cony, is then 134 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 3: the director of the FBI. There are all these different 135 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 3: elements of the United States law enforcement, our national security apparatus, 136 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 3: the intel communities, all conducted years long official government efforts 137 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: trying to do what trying to subvert Trump's authority as 138 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 3: the elected executive and the commander in chief of the 139 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 3: armed forces. In President Trump on behalf of not just himself, 140 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 3: but all future presidents. Can't allow that to happen. Ever, Again, 141 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 3: it is within his power to make leaders of the 142 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 3: self proclaimed so called resistance within the government to take 143 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 3: a step back, rethink their tactics, even when those individuals 144 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 3: are elective members of the United States Congress. Now, this 145 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 3: is not a shield that protects them from the consequences 146 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 3: of behavior that is potentially criminal, and I want to 147 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 3: explain why I think this is potentially criminal activity. It's 148 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 3: the Weekend with Michael Brown. Thanks for joining. Text lines 149 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 3: always open three three one zero three, keyword Michael, Michael. 150 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 3: I'll be right back. Welcome back to the Weekend with 151 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 3: Michael Brown. Glad to have you with me. We're talking 152 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 3: about this video that these members of Congress made that 153 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 3: encourages in my opinion, because it implies that President Trump 154 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 3: as commander in chief, or perhaps the Secretary of War 155 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 3: Pete Hegsath, maybe the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, somebody 156 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 3: in somebody's you know, some enlisted you know, grunt's chain 157 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 3: of command was issued in illegal order, and they're trying 158 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 3: to tell them, hey, you can disobey illegal orders. Well, 159 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 3: what are they They never named them, They never explain 160 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 3: what they are. They can't explain even why they did it, 161 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 3: other than they wanted to remind people of what they 162 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 3: had the right to do. But you take a young 163 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 3: you know, perhaps somebody from the inner city, somebody who 164 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 3: you know, maybe maybe got a ged and they decided 165 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 3: to join the military, and it turns out to be 166 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 3: a little less a little less likable than what they 167 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 3: thought it was going to be. It turns out to 168 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 3: be really tough. You have to be disciplined. You know, 169 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 3: they're getting you up at four or five o'clock in 170 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 3: the morning. You're doing all this running and exercises and training. 171 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 3: You got a drill sergeant that's yelling at you, you 172 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 3: have to dress a certain way, you got a buzz cut, 173 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 3: and suddenly you can't do all the things that you 174 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 3: used to do when you were in high school, and 175 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 3: some of you don't like things, and you think what 176 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 3: your commanding officer is requiring you. 177 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: To do, well, that's just wrong. That's just wrong. 178 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:58,959 Speaker 3: And then you see this video because you know that 179 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 3: the troops of all about it troops have all looked 180 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 3: at it. And so here's some young enlisted kid doesn't 181 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 3: really know any better. Isn't that well educated, and suddenly says, Yeah, 182 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 3: I think my real sergeant is making me do something 183 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 3: that I don't want to do, and so I'm just 184 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 3: not going to do it. They told me I don't 185 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 3: have to obey an illegal order. Wow, is he going 186 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 3: to Well? I hope he doesn't wind up, you know, 187 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 3: wind up in Leavenworth, but he certainly could wind up 188 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 3: kicked out of the military, losing all of his benefits, 189 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 3: having a dishonorable discharge, which is going to follow him 190 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 3: for the rest of his life or her life. So 191 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 3: I think these people, these Congress critors, were truly irresponsible 192 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 3: in making this video. And now it's gone one step 193 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 3: further because the more I start looking at the Uniform 194 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 3: Code of Military Justice, the more I realized that there's 195 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 3: actually a statute that says, yeah, don't you dare her 196 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 3: go out and start trying to engage in activities that, 197 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 3: you know, attempt to interfere with, impair or influence. Remember 198 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 3: the loyalty, the morale, or the discipline of the military 199 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 3: or naval forces of the United States. This this act, 200 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 3: those serving members of the government in the Congress that 201 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 3: made the video directing their comments at the active duty 202 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 3: military everything from what he won privates to O ten 203 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 3: admirals or generals, and then referencing quote this administration as 204 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 3: the subject of their so called advice and counsel. They 205 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 3: have potentially interfered with the chain of command, and they've 206 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 3: done so in a way that certainly reasonably could be 207 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 3: expected to cause insubordination or refusal of duty. They acted 208 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 3: recklessly in you know, if we were talking about civil lawsuits, 209 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 3: take outside the military for a moment, talking about, you know, 210 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 3: a car accident. Were you negligent because you failed to 211 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 3: turn your signal on? Were you negligent because you were speeding, 212 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 3: you were doing something, or maybe you were distracted in 213 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 3: the car because you know, a lot of states have 214 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 3: where you can't you have to have your phone hands free, 215 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 3: but you were using your phone to text something, you 216 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 3: have you have affirmatively and negligently caused an accident. If 217 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 3: you're if you're texting on your phone, staring down at 218 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 3: your phone and your rear in somebody, or you run 219 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 3: a stop sign or a red light or whatever it is, 220 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 3: you're the one that is negligent and you're the cause 221 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 3: of that accident. What if that's what these people have done. 222 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 3: They've now potentially interfered with the chain of command, and 223 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 3: they've done so in a way that does cause or 224 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 3: could cause in subordination and a refusal of duty. They 225 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,479 Speaker 3: have actually brought this investigation upon themselves. They have invited 226 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 3: this investmentstigation by federal law enforcement under the direction of 227 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 3: the Attorney General who's undertaking an examination on the subject 228 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 3: of this, whether their words moved from the realm of 229 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 3: free speech protected by the First Amendment to a violation 230 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 3: of federal law that they themselves, as members of Congress. 231 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: Swore an oath to uphold. 232 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 3: Now, whether they cross that boundary is not for the 233 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 3: Attorney General to decide. If the evidence suggests they have, 234 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 3: then guess who it's up to decide whether or not 235 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 3: they violated the law. Twelve jurors of their peers, that's who. 236 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 3: But I think it is incumbent upon the Attorney General 237 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 3: to facilitate the investigation that might one day, you know, 238 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 3: someday lead to that question being asked of and then 239 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 3: answered by twelve jurors. So what should we do well, 240 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 3: I think the Attorney General should direct the National Security 241 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 3: Branch and the Public Corruption Section of the Criminal Division 242 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 3: of the Department of Justice to open a criminal grand 243 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 3: jury investigation. A grand jury investigation does not determine the 244 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 3: guilt or innocence. It only explores activity that has drawn 245 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 3: scrutiny to itself. Think about that, because that's what these 246 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 3: yahoos have done. They have drawn scrutiny to themselves. They 247 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 3: first make the video, then they go on you know, 248 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 3: They go to every island of the cabal that will 249 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 3: have them on, and they talk about it. They even 250 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 3: go into hostile territory. By that, I mean some of 251 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 3: these liberals like Mark Kelly and Jason Crowe go on 252 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 3: to Fox News, and Fox News asks very specifically, what 253 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 3: were you trying to do? And can you give me examples? 254 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 3: And Jason Crowe, congressman from here in Colorado, dances around 255 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 3: like some ballet dancer, just up toying and purreading around 256 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 3: everything other than answering the question. So they themselves are 257 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 3: the ones that have drawn the scrutiny. They you make 258 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 3: a video, you send it out for the entire world 259 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 3: to see. You remember the United States Congress, You remember 260 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 3: the United States Senate. Some of them are very well known. 261 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 3: Some are former members of the intel community, including the CIA. 262 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 3: They know what their oath is. They should know what 263 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 3: the federal law is. I mean, after all, they're the 264 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 3: ones that write the laws. They should understand it. And 265 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 3: many of them are themselves lawyers. So there's no excuse 266 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 3: for this. And I want to remind you a grand 267 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 3: jury investigation is not the determinant of guilt. It only 268 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 3: explores that activity. So they would just be looking at 269 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 3: the video and all of the evidence surrounding the video. 270 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 3: The grand jury is just simply a tool used by 271 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 3: federal law enforcement to gather information about the suspect, the 272 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 3: suspect activity, and about the people who engaged in the 273 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 3: suspect activity. So the members that appear in this video 274 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 3: cited their official positions. I'm a former I'm a member 275 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 3: of Congress and a former member of the CIA. I 276 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 3: am a member of the United States Senate and a 277 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 3: former member of NASA and the United States Navy. I'm 278 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 3: a former member of Congress, and i used to be 279 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 3: an Army ranger. They very specifically said who they were, 280 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 3: and by citing their official positions and their past military 281 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 3: service as an appeal to authority, which is what the 282 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 3: statute requires. So by doing that, they have invited themselves 283 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 3: an inquiry into their own conduct. Now, these statements were 284 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 3: not made on the floor of either the House of 285 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,719 Speaker 3: Congress Houses of Congress, either the House or the Senate, 286 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 3: so they are not protected by the speech and debate clause. 287 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 3: If they made this statement on the floor of the 288 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 3: House or the floor of the Senate, they would be 289 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 3: protected by speeching and Debate but they did not, So 290 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 3: what should happen? It's the Weekend with Michael Brown. Text 291 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 3: the word Michael Michael to three three one zero three. 292 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 3: What should happen? 293 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: That's next tonight. Michael Brown joins me here. 294 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 2: The former FEMA director of talk show host Michael Brown. Brownie, No, Brownie, 295 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 2: You're doing a heck of a job. The Weekend with 296 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 2: Michael Brown. 297 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 3: Hey's so the Weekend with Michael Brown. Glad to have 298 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 3: you with me. I appreciate you tuning in. So we're 299 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 3: talking about this video that these members of Congress did 300 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 3: then encouraged members of the military to ordery mind members 301 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 3: of the military to be kind of fair, that they 302 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 3: have a right to object to illegal orders, and this 303 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,479 Speaker 3: whole video backfired on them more than they expected. I 304 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 3: really think they thought that they were being really cool 305 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 3: by making this video, and in so doing they beget 306 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 3: some of tension. They would, you know, kind of slap 307 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 3: Donald Trump around a little bit. And now the blowback 308 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 3: from everybody, including like Joe Scarborough. I should see if 309 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,239 Speaker 3: I can find that SoundBite. So one of them went 310 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 3: on to Josh Joe Scarborough's show on ms NOW used 311 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 3: to be MSNBC and Joe Scarborough also asked the question, 312 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 3: so what were you referring to? What has Trump done 313 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 3: that was wrong? And no answer. You know, we know, 314 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 3: we were just trying to remind people. And Scarborough who 315 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 3: you know, he's a former Republican congressman from Florida. He's 316 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 3: he's not a dummy. I disagree with his politics, but 317 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 3: I've known Joe for twenty years or more. But his 318 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 3: response was amazing. That's the wrong answer, he said, if 319 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 3: you're going to make a video like this and you're 320 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 3: going to encourage people to look for or to enga 321 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 3: age and disobedience, you better have a damn good reason 322 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 3: why and be able to give some examples. And to 323 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 3: the same point that I made earlier, you have a 324 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 3: lot of young people that enter the military that it's 325 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 3: a cultural shock for them. They're not accustomed to being 326 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 3: ordered around, told us you have to be up at 327 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 3: a certain time, do certain things, dress a certain way 328 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 3: at a certain way, because that's part of the military discipline. 329 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 3: And so you've almost encouraged them to claim that something 330 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 3: is unlawful or an illegal order when it's nothing more 331 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 3: than just basic military discipline. So the members appealing or 332 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 3: appearing in that video by citing their official positions in 333 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 3: their past military service, are indeed appealing to authority, and 334 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 3: every piece of evidence that can be gathered concerning the 335 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 3: decision to make, to produce, to broadcast that video needs 336 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 3: to be obtained through a lawful investigation, and that would 337 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 3: include all communications with everyone involved. Various versions of the scripts, 338 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 3: uncut video of each participant, because you know, it's just 339 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 3: a series of each of them appearing at different times, 340 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 3: so it's been cut and edited. Get the entire video, 341 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 3: get the final version, get all the outtakes, the production records. 342 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 3: Who funded this? Who paid for it? How did you 343 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 3: distribute it? How was that decision made? Where there was 344 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 3: there anyone behind you, both literally and figuratively, that funded this? 345 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 3: Was it George Soros's son? Was it some Democrat party 346 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 3: operative or donor? Every participant needs to be questioned under 347 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 3: oath before the grand jury. Every person except the six 348 00:21:54,560 --> 00:22:00,040 Speaker 3: officials who appear in the video should be subpoened. The 349 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 3: six officials should be invited. Now why do I say 350 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 3: that everyone else should be issued a subpoena, but the 351 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 3: six officials should simply be invited. 352 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: To testify before the grand jury. 353 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 3: And that's simply because you're not lawfully allowed to subpoena 354 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 3: a target of a criminal investigation. If a grand jury 355 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 3: is investigating something that they think some law that I violated, 356 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 3: that I was I don't know, dealing drugs or you know, 357 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 3: violating some you know, statute somewhere, you can't subpoena me 358 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 3: because you can't compel me to testify before the grand jury. 359 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 3: And you don't want me coming before the grand jury 360 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 3: and finding out, Oh, I'm a target, and therefore I'm 361 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 3: going to invoke my Fifth Amendment rights not to testify 362 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 3: against myself. And suddenly the whole investigation goes from being 363 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 3: confidential to being very very public. At least that's what 364 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 3: I would do. I'd make it very public. In other words, 365 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 3: the people in this video have the right to remain silent, 366 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 3: and we should respect that right. But whether their words 367 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 3: are probable cause that a crime has been committed, either 368 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 3: under Section twenty three eighty seven or anything else, that's 369 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 3: a question for the grand jurors. It's a question for 370 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 3: grand jurors presented with as much factual evidence as the 371 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 3: Department of Justice can gather. Now, remember all six of 372 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 3: these yahoos gave their voices to a single video, one 373 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 3: single video. So the first inquiry ought to be whether 374 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 3: the sixth, did you discuss that video among yourselves, did 375 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 3: you share what each of you were going to say, 376 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 3: did you write it out? Was there any sort of 377 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 3: script that you put together? And the reason I asked 378 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 3: those kinds of questions is because that could provide the 379 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 3: basis or it can conspiracy investigation. And the venue for 380 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 3: a conspiracy can be in any district where any conspirator 381 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 3: was present when the conspiracy was formed, or any district 382 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 3: where an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy took place. 383 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 3: What do I mean, Well, let's say they all gathered 384 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 3: in one office on Capitol Hill. Well, that would make 385 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 3: the district of Columbia. That would make that the proper jurisdiction. 386 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 3: But if they were all in their home offices in 387 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 3: Arizona and Colorado and Virginia and all the other different 388 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 3: places they were from, then that gives a broader opportunity. 389 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 3: If you can show a conspiracy, that gives you a 390 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 3: broader opportunity of which federal district court you would take 391 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 3: this case to. So there's a lot of things like 392 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 3: that that need to be investigated. A suitable venue I 393 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 3: think would be the home state of any of the 394 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 3: members of Congress who appear in the video. And the 395 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 3: reason I say that is because every single one of 396 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 3: them announced their position in Congress as part of their 397 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 3: introduction of themselves, so that made the video an official 398 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 3: act on behalf of their constituents. You see, I think 399 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 3: these people were too smart behalf. They were too stupid 400 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 3: by a whole. They're so full of themselves and they're 401 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 3: so infused with Trumps arrangement syndrome that they really thought, oh, 402 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 3: let's do this. You know, let's pat ourselves on the back. 403 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 3: We're a member of Congress, I'm from such and such state, 404 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 3: and I used to serve in the CIA, I used 405 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 3: to serve in the Army Rangers. I used to be 406 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,479 Speaker 3: an astronaut, blah blah blah whatever it is. So based 407 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 3: on the members of Congress who participated, these are the 408 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 3: districts they could be proper venue for criminal investigation and 409 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 3: a criminal trial. Senator Mark Kelly from Arizona, Senator at 410 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 3: least Scott Slutkin, Michigan. Congresswoman Christy Hulahan Eastern Pennsylvania, Congressman 411 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 3: Chris Deluzio Western Pennsylvania, Congresswoman Maggie Goodlander New Hampshire, and 412 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 3: of course Congressman Jason Crow Colorado. Of those choices, if 413 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 3: I were the one that was responsible for the investigation, 414 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 3: I would head for the Johnstown Division of the Western 415 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 3: District of Pennsylvania, where the Honorable Stephanie Haines presides. Why well. 416 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 3: Stephanie Haynes was born in Johnstown, Pennsylvania. Nineteen sixty nine. 417 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 3: She graduated from law school. She clerked for Judge Eugenie 418 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 3: Fike on the sixteenth Judicial District. During her clerkship, she 419 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 3: was commissioned as a first lieutenant in the US Army. 420 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 3: October one, nineteen ninety six, she entered the active duty 421 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 3: service in the United States Army's Judge Advocate General's Corps. 422 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 3: Now after completing her JAG Officer basic course, she reported 423 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 3: to the one hundred and first Airborne Division in Fort Campbell, Kentucky, 424 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 3: and while at Fort Campbell she earned her Air Assault Badge. 425 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 3: She served as a legal assistant attorney and a prosecutor. 426 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 3: In two she left active duty became an assistant US 427 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,159 Speaker 3: attorney in the Criminal Division for the Southern District of 428 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 3: West Virginia. Then she remained in the Army as a 429 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 3: JAG officer in reserve capacity. She served as a criminal 430 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 3: assistant US Attorney in the Southern District of West Virginia. 431 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 3: She went to the US Attorney's Office on April fourth 432 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,080 Speaker 3: of twenty twenty one. She retired from the military in 433 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 3: the rank of colonel after twenty four a half years 434 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 3: of military service. Retired at the rank of colonel from 435 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 3: the judge after to the JAG Corps with twenty four 436 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 3: plus years of service. If I were going to indict 437 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 3: these people, I would want her to be the judge. 438 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 3: It's the Weekend with Michael Brown. Text Lines always opened 439 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 3: three three one zero three. He worred MIKEA or Michael. 440 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 3: Hang tight, I'll be right back. Welcome back to the 441 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 3: Weekend with Michael Brown. Glad to have you with me. 442 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: Member. 443 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 3: Text Lines always open three to three one zero three. 444 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 3: Keyword Micaro, Michael, tell me anything, ask me anything, do 445 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 3: me a favor. You know, it's the holidays. Go follow 446 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 3: me on X at Michael Brown USA. So I went 447 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 3: through why I would like to see this case tried 448 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 3: in Pennsylvania because if indicted, I really do want to 449 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 3: see these military veterans or a former CIA official in 450 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 3: the case of Senator Slutkin. I want them to complain 451 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 3: that they can't get a fair trial in the courtroom 452 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 3: of Judge Haynes and in front of the citizens of 453 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 3: the Purple State of Pennsylvania, in and around Johnstown, Pennsylvania. 454 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 3: I've been to Johnstown, Pennsylvania. It's a wonderful little place 455 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 3: in Pennsylvania. That's where I want them tried, if they're 456 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 3: going to be tried now. There are obvious problems with 457 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 3: the language of Section twenty three eighty seven. I can 458 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 3: only find a handful of cases that have ever been 459 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,959 Speaker 3: prosecuted under this section, most of them around World War II. 460 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: You see. 461 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 3: The statute was passed back in nineteen forty, and there 462 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 3: were a couple of cases around the time of the 463 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 3: Vietnam War. The statute is often challenged on First Amendment grounds, 464 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 3: particularly in those eras that were lost, on the basis 465 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 3: that the language of Section twenty three eighty seven is 466 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,720 Speaker 3: identical to some of the really broad language found in 467 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 3: the Espionage Act of nineteen seventeen. And why is that important? 468 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 3: Because the Supreme Court decisions regarding convictions under the Espionage 469 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 3: Act were upheld by the Supreme Court against First Amendment challenges. 470 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 3: The Espionage Act says that it shall be illegal to 471 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 3: do this. 472 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:01,719 Speaker 1: Now. 473 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 3: I want you to think as I tell you what 474 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 3: the Espionage Act says. I want you to think about 475 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 3: what these yahoos were saying and doing in that video 476 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 3: and see if it doesn't track. The Espionage Act says 477 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 3: that it is illegal to willfully make or convey false 478 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 3: reports or false statements with the intent to interfere with 479 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 3: the operation or success of the military or naval forces 480 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 3: of the US, or to promote the success of its enemies, 481 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 3: or listen closely, willfully cause or attempt to cause in subordination, disloyalty, mutiny, 482 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 3: or refusal of duty in the military or naval forces 483 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 3: of the United States, or shall wilfully obstruct the recruiting 484 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 3: or listenment service of the United States, to the injury 485 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 3: of the service of the United States. I think a 486 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 3: lot of that language applies quite clearly to what they 487 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,719 Speaker 3: were doing here now. Nineteen nineteen in a case that 488 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 3: upheld that language against a challenge based on the First Amendment. 489 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 3: The case was Chank versus United States. I think we 490 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 3: actually talked about this case on this program before. Shank 491 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 3: was the General secretary of the US Socialist Party and 492 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 3: he opposed the implementation of a draft, so he produced 493 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 3: these flyers advising young men to resist military service. Shank 494 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 3: was convicted of three counts under the Espionage Act, and 495 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 3: the Supreme Court unanimously upheld his conviction and also denied 496 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 3: the challenge under the First Amendment. The Court said this, 497 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 3: words which ordinarily, in many places would be within the 498 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 3: freedom of speech protected by the First Amendment Amendment, may 499 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 3: become subject to prohibition when those words are of such 500 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 3: a nature and used in such circumstances as to create 501 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 3: a clear and present danger that they will bring about 502 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 3: the substantive of evils which Congress has a right to prevent. Now, 503 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 3: Shank is the case He'll love this. Shank is the 504 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 3: case where Justice Holmes Oliver Wendell Holmes used the much 505 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 3: maligned analogy about shouting fire in a crowded theater. That 506 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 3: case introduced the concept that speech that creates a clear 507 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 3: and present danger to public safety did not enjoy First 508 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 3: Amendment protections, so the Supreme Court limited Shank's reach. In 509 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 3: a later case, Brandenburg versus Ohio. That case is from 510 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine, by requiring that the speech at issue 511 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 3: in a case must tend to incite imminent lawless action. 512 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 3: But here's the difference. In the Brandenburg versus Ohio case. 513 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 3: It did not involve comments undermining military cohesion or respect 514 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 3: for the chain of command. You see, Brandenburg concerned speech 515 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 3: by the leader of the KKK that was alleged to 516 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,719 Speaker 3: present a clear and present danger by encouraging criminal acts 517 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 3: that were unrelated to the military. So to the extent 518 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 3: that the Shank case can be read as validating a 519 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 3: prosecution for attempting to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal 520 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 3: of duty in the military or naval forces, then that 521 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 3: part of its holding is not necessarily implicated or thrown 522 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 3: out by the later case in Brandenburg versus Ohio in 523 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine. Then there was another case decided by 524 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 3: the Supreme Court at the same time, United States versus Debs. 525 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 3: That's where Eugene Debs was also convicted under the Espionage 526 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 3: Act because, as the court says, quote on or about 527 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 3: June sixteenth, nineteen eight, in Canton, Ohio, the defendant caused 528 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 3: and incided and attempted to cause an insight in subordination, disloyalty, 529 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 3: mutiny and refusal of dutying the military and naval forces 530 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 3: of the US and with intent so too, delivered to 531 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 3: an assembly of people a public speech. Wait a minute, 532 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 3: isn't that kind of exactly what they were doing, Except 533 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:29,359 Speaker 3: this wasn't nineteen eighteen. This was twenty twenty five. So 534 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 3: instead of standing in the town square in Canton, Ohio 535 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 3: and delivering his speech trying to get people to disobey 536 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 3: the military, they went on TikTok, They went on Facebook, 537 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 3: they went on Instagram, and they made a video and 538 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 3: they spliced it up and cut it up and edited 539 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 3: this all encouraging people to want, oh, disobey illegal orders. Okay, 540 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 3: what illegal Well, we can't name any I think this 541 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 3: case has more potential for a conviction than we've seen 542 00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 3: since nineteen eighteen, And just because nineteen eighteen was a 543 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:13,319 Speaker 3: long time ago, it's still solid law. Like shank the 544 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,280 Speaker 3: Dev's decision. I'm sure it's been criticized over the years, 545 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,200 Speaker 3: and it was narrowed by Brandenburg, but not it didn't 546 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 3: overrule it, and it applied to something other than the military. 547 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 3: More so, even than Shank. The deb's decision dealt not 548 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 3: with encouraging lawlessness, but with undermining good order and discipline 549 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 3: in the military by encouraging active duty military personnel to 550 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 3: disobey the chain of command. When President Trump made reference 551 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 3: to sedition, and that term has been tossed around social media, 552 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 3: it's just way too much. This seems a bit wild 553 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 3: eyed to me. Sedition involves overthrowing the government by force. 554 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 3: The only Title eighteen criminal statute referring to sedition is 555 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 3: the statue that criminalizes seditious conspiracy that was passed by 556 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 3: Congress during the Civil War. The statute doesn't require an 557 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 3: actual active sedition. It only requires an agreement by a 558 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,359 Speaker 3: couple of people to engage in sedition. So I think 559 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 3: that Trump was off base by saying they've engaged in 560 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 3: sedition and they ought to be hanged. I wish the 561 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 3: President in that case would just shut up and let 562 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 3: the Department of Justice do what it needs to do. 563 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 3: Their comments in this video are perfectly acceptable in the 564 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 3: context of policy debates when it's done inside of Congress, 565 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 3: because that's part of their role as lawmakers, and so 566 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 3: they're entitled to use the authority of their office to 567 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 3: advocate to other members of Congress and move them to 568 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:52,239 Speaker 3: pass laws that addresses their concerns about the administration's so 569 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 3: called execution of foreign policy around the world. But that's 570 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 3: not what they did. They undermined the respect for the 571 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 3: chain of man right up to an including the president 572 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 3: who serves as the commander in chief. And that's outside 573 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 3: the boundaries of their lawful authorities as an elected member 574 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,239 Speaker 3: of Congress or the United States Senate. You know, it 575 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 3: just seems to me that Johnstown would be a great 576 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 3: place to hold a trial of five or six Congressmen 577 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 3: and senators. It's the weekend with Michael Brown. Text Lines 578 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 3: always opened three to three, one zero three, keyword Michael, Michael. 579 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:28,879 Speaker 1: I'll be right back.