1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Tony Pike sincey three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: in part by Cincy Shirts. 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 2: Cincy Shirts all sincey all Day. This is ESPN. 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: Fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 3: Welcome Back Hour two Cincy three sixty The Whole of 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 3: the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati Sports Station. Let's talk 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 3: more about the Cincinnati Bengals. Let's do so with our 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 3: guest who we've had on each and every Thursday during 9 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 3: the football season covering the Bengals from eight toz E Sports. 10 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 3: Our good friend John Sheeran joining us right now. Hi, John, 11 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 3: how are you? 12 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: It's the off season? 13 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 4: Thank god here we're here, my favorite time in the year. 14 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 3: John, How would you summarize the start to twenty twenty six? 15 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 3: You see loses in the Liberty Bowl, they fall to 16 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 3: Houston and then they fall to West Virginia. The Bengals 17 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 3: lose to the Cleveland Browns. What way would you summarize 18 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 3: the start of twenty twenty six? 19 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 4: There was this old I believe it was in the 20 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 4: Inquirer long time ago. There was this old like cartoon 21 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 4: about like Mike Brown, like New Year's same stuff. Whatever 22 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 4: the caption was, where it's like, nothing really changes, right, 23 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 4: So it's just, you know, it's part for the course. 24 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 2: You know, it is what it is. It is. 25 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 3: It's a hard time right now, but the Bengals go 26 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,559 Speaker 3: into their most pivotal offseason. As James Rapeene said earlier 27 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 3: in the week, it feels like every off season now 28 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 3: is the most important, especially with the Joe Burrow window 29 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,479 Speaker 3: and where things are at. They made an early move 30 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 3: in the off season by doubling down on not only 31 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 3: Zach Taylor, but Duke Tobin. Zach Taylor then on one 32 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 3: to double down essentially on the staff and does not 33 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 3: foresee any staff changes. Your overall thoughts as it relates 34 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 3: to the decision and the timing of that decision to 35 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 3: bring back Zach, Duke and as much of the staff 36 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 3: as possible. 37 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 4: I think in past years, I think a lot of 38 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 4: fans equate to no changes, being like, oh, they did 39 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 4: too much at the end of the season to save 40 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 4: their jobs, and I really didn't feel like that was 41 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 4: the case. Ever since Paul's engineer's report that stated Zach 42 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 4: Taylor had not one but two years left in this contract, 43 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 4: it was basically assumed that they weren't even remotely interested 44 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 4: in moving on from Zach after this year. I think 45 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 4: obviously the Burrow injury is a baked and excuse. With 46 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 4: that as well, I think there were some at least 47 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 4: conversations about, like, you know, is Duke Tobin particularly as 48 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 4: safe as it used to be the face more accountability 49 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 4: and it seems like that's going to be the case 50 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 4: later this week. But in terms of both of them 51 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 4: coming back, that wasn't obviously very surprising, regardless of what 52 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 4: their final record was. I think as soon as we 53 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 4: learned that, yeah, like they're not going to pay head 54 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 4: coach two years for not coaching their team, like the yeah's, 55 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 4: it's pretty said in stone. So in terms of continuity 56 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 4: and all that, like, it's not it's not shocking considering 57 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 4: who the team is, but it does obviously make twenty 58 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 4: twenty six a lot more important for him, considering that 59 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 4: he does only have two years left in this contract 60 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 4: and going four consecutive years not making the playoffs with 61 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 4: Joe Burry as a quarterback is already it's already excuse 62 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 4: me when it's three, but it would be even more 63 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 4: an excuse what four? And there's only so much that 64 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 4: you can take there. 65 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,679 Speaker 3: Speaking of the Duke Tobin decision, we also find out 66 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 3: Duke Tobin is set to speak to the media at 67 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 3: one o'clock tomorrow and John Underscore sharing on x I 68 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 3: know you live streamed yesterday and went into a little 69 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 3: bit of what you would ask Duke Tobin on Friday. 70 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 3: Share a little bit of that, because that, to me 71 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 3: is now the most fascinating thing. Duke Tobin, who doesn't 72 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 3: normally speak at this time of the year, has been 73 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 3: I think under more of the microscope as the season 74 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 3: has gone on. When you look at this roster and 75 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 3: just where it is. What are some things you hope 76 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 3: or you would want to be asking Duke Tobin tomorrow. 77 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, the three things that I thought of were Number one, 78 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 4: why does coaching turnover get in the way of proper 79 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 4: roster turnover in a free agency because that was a 80 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 4: definite problem not only when Zach was hired back in 81 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 4: twenty nineteen, but then last year when they hired Al 82 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 4: Golden and they got the staff together late. The Bears 83 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 4: and Jaguars hired completely new coaching staff last offseason to 84 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,119 Speaker 4: hit the ground running in margin when you know they're 85 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 4: both the number three seeds in their respective side of 86 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 4: the playoff bracket. The fact that that's an excuse at all, 87 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 4: that's actually what alluded to, is ludicrous to me. So 88 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 4: talking to someone who is, you know, proclaimed to be 89 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 4: that the factor GM, I think he should probably answer 90 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 4: for that. 91 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 2: Number two. 92 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 4: I want to know about how he can improve the 93 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 4: clear disjointedness in the war room on draft day, and 94 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 4: about how to how to properly funnel the opinions and 95 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 4: the information from the coaching staff and the very limited 96 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 4: and small that you know, Duke's mind. The personal department 97 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 4: is as big as he wants it to be, so 98 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 4: there's not a ton of information going from that side. 99 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 4: But how can you funnel information from both sides of 100 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 4: your operation? And how can you make a clear and 101 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 4: concise decision rounding around out where you're not reaching and 102 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 4: you're not trying to appease the coaching staff that has 103 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 4: obviously a lot of influence on the draft. How can 104 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 4: you make that process better if you're not going to 105 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 4: change it. Number three I would like I would like 106 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 4: him to at least face the question of does he 107 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 4: feel like he's limited by not being able to offer 108 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 4: guaranteed money to free agents? If that is indeed a 109 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 4: blackbird problem if he also shares philosophy as someone who 110 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 4: again is in this position of building a team, does 111 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 4: he feel like he's limited with that? What do he 112 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 4: do things differently if he was actually given the title 113 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 4: of general manager, he would obviously never answer that. He's 114 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 4: very dismissive with some of these questions and he likes 115 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 4: to control a conversation. But I would like someone to 116 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 4: at least asking that to see what he would do 117 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 4: in a response to it. 118 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: That being said, what do you expect to hear from 119 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: him yesterday or tomorrow? And is there anything that you 120 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: feel like he can say that will appease Bengals fans. 121 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 4: I don't know if there's anything that he can say 122 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,479 Speaker 4: that it's going to be any different than any of 123 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 4: the other press conference that he's done. Again, like he's 124 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 4: he depending on what who his audience is like at 125 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 4: the combine is very more is much more open because 126 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 4: it's a more general national audience. 127 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: And last year he saw him kind of make. 128 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,559 Speaker 4: These I don't know if you want to call him please, 129 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 4: but like it was almost like he was speaking to 130 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 4: the front office about how he wanted, you know, this 131 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 4: team to be different and not to pay more for 132 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 4: the same team and ended up being the exact. 133 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 2: Same teamlast year. 134 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 4: Right, So I think when you're talking to Bengals media, 135 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 4: like he trusts, you know, the reporters a lot more 136 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 4: because he knows where that information is going to and. 137 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 2: What it's going to be said about in the in 138 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: the publication. 139 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,799 Speaker 4: So I think he'll get some genuine answers out of Tobin, 140 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 4: but just knowing who he is talking to him in 141 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 4: the past, Like again, he's someone that doesn't like to 142 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 4: throw anyone on the bus. 143 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 2: I think the. 144 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 4: Bengals appreciate how very tight lit that he is. He 145 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 4: doesn't give away a lot of information in general, but 146 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 4: it's good that he in that position as again, like 147 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 4: not the GM, but as close to a GM as 148 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 4: you're gonna get, Cincinnati. This is what gms do at 149 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 4: the end of the season, especially when you miss the playoffs, 150 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 4: stand up for what you did with the roster, takes 151 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 4: some accountability for what went wrong, and talk about how 152 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 4: you can prove to be better. Because now you're talking 153 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 4: about it right right at the end of the season, 154 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 4: instead of right before the combine when people have already 155 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 4: moved on to the draft and everything like that. It's 156 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 4: tough to really reflect on pastis so just hearing him 157 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 4: talk about these things fresh in the moment, I think 158 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 4: will be refreshing for Bengals fans, and I ain't fascinated to. 159 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:56,239 Speaker 2: See what he says. 160 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: As far as Zach Taylor is concerned, we know that 161 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: Joe bur Burrough has defended him publicly and privately. How 162 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: much value do you place on Burrow's endorsement of Zach Taylor. 163 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 4: There is value to it, and I think because he 164 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 4: is the offensive play caller, and he does give Burrow 165 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 4: complete autonomy over the offense and has completely structured the 166 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 4: offense around him, it's natural why Burrow would be in 167 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 4: Zach's corner. I don't think that they have a bad 168 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 4: relationship at all. Obviously, when the quarterback and head coach 169 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 4: have a bad relationship, then that's how you get a 170 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 4: situation like what potentially happened in Baltimore when John Harborough 171 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 4: was fired. Right, So that definitely does play into Zach Stager. 172 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 4: And obviously Burrow has more influence than any other employee 173 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 4: in pay for stadium. But ultimately it's not Burrow's decision 174 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 4: to make. That's why or not they keep the head 175 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 4: coach has to be down to ownership, and they have 176 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 4: to accept the fact that what Zach Carroll has done 177 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 4: as a head coach and the totality of his seven 178 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 4: years now is enough to keep an employed. And I 179 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 4: don't think there's enough evidence really to support that. 180 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: I think if you get a. 181 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 4: Decent head coach in there with a decent offensive philosophy, 182 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 4: he's going to be able to do the same things 183 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 4: that Zach Hiller's done with Joe Burrow. It's just the 184 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 4: fact that Zach and Burrow have been together for now 185 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 4: six years, and obviously Burrow was a good relationship with him, 186 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 4: so there's value to it, but it's not enough value 187 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,440 Speaker 4: to override a decision that ownership should probably make. 188 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 3: I hear a lot of people bring up at times 189 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 3: the size of the scouting department for the Cincinnati Bengals, 190 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 3: and I know you mentioned the correlation of what happens 191 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 3: in the war room and the scheme versus the personnel. 192 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 3: I think the Bengals have drafted more for development instead 193 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 3: of guys that can come in and play right now. 194 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 3: But when you look at the Shamar Stewart situation and 195 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 3: he's asked after the draft about the Bengals and he 196 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 3: doesn't even remember meeting with the Bengals leading up to 197 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 3: the draft. I remember Jermaine Burton and the Bengals pounding 198 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 3: the table, and then one of the most respected coaches ever, 199 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,719 Speaker 3: Nick Saban, is saying, I don't know, based on the 200 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 3: off the field issues, would more bodies in the scouting 201 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 3: department potentially help clear that up in the future for 202 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 3: missus that this team has had. 203 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 4: I don't know if more information. In my opinion, it 204 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 4: comes down to the right information, right, it's it's what 205 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 4: you're looking at. Does it actually correlate to success? And 206 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 4: I don't think that always entails with having more voices. 207 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 2: In the room. 208 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 4: I understand the general philosophy of like having like a 209 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 4: small circle because like you trust you know where the 210 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 4: information is coming from. But the information that they're getting 211 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 4: or excuse me, what they're valuing definitely has to change. 212 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 4: Because Shamar Stewart again, like he wasn't very productive in college, 213 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 4: and it's not surprising that so far he hasn't been 214 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 4: very productive in the games he's played in the NFL, 215 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 4: and most of their misses. 216 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: Have come down to asking guys, like you said. 217 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 4: You're trying to You're trying to fill holes of players 218 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 4: of doing things that they weren't necessarily have to do 219 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 4: in college or has to do it at a certain rate, 220 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 4: or just proven that they weren't capable of doing at 221 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 4: the other at the lower level. Right, So it's changing 222 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 4: that overall philosophy that I think can go a long 223 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 4: way beyond just adding, you know, five more scouts. I 224 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 4: think adding more scouts gets you more likely to finding 225 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 4: the correct answers and. 226 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 2: Finding the right information. But I think the main goal 227 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 2: is to find that right now, and. 228 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 4: They need a complete philosophical shift about how they look 229 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 4: at defensive prospects, specifically along the defensive line. 230 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 3: Zach Taylor will be back as the head coach, Dan 231 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 3: Pitcher the offensive coordinator. Although the guy that doesn't call 232 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 3: place for the Bengals is getting an interview with the 233 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 3: Cleveland Browns. I think that says a lot about how 234 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 3: Dan Pitcher is viewed, and I know it doesn't change 235 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 3: the fact of Zach Taylor coming back, But if Dan 236 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 3: Pitcher is getting these opportunities, do you think there's a 237 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 3: conversation that happens at all in the offseason about potentially 238 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 3: allowing Dan Pitcher instead of Zach Taylor to call play. 239 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 4: I mean, that would be the leverage piece that the 240 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 4: Bengals can use here. It wasn't obviously used when they 241 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 4: brought when they promoted Pitcher to be offensive coordinator in 242 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 4: twenty twenty four. Remember like he got looks I believe, 243 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 4: from the Tampa Bay Buccaneers from the New Orleans Saints 244 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 4: in the twenty twenty four offseason to be their offensive coordinator, 245 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 4: and many thought that, Hey, like, in order to keep 246 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 4: Pitcher because Brian Colly was leaving, you may have to 247 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 4: give him play calling duties that obviously didn't happen. He 248 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 4: chose to stay with the Bengals because obviously, who would 249 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 4: want to leave Joe Burrow right and right now? Only 250 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 4: another option to be a head coach is to I 251 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 4: don't know, coach Sadar Sanders. It's not exactly a tantalized 252 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 4: not just maybe the Bangals don't feel that pressured or 253 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 4: that threatened to give Picture those those duties. 254 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 2: But if it does come down to it, if. 255 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 4: They do feel like Picture is that valuable, maybe that 256 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 4: conversation does pop up because again, you know you're if 257 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 4: you're Zach Hiller, you're probably thinking that you're running out 258 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 4: of time and you want to make sure that you 259 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 4: have the best possible staff around you to do this 260 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 4: thing and to extend your tenure here. So if he 261 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 4: if he feels like Picture is too valuable to lose, 262 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 4: that would be the bargainingship that he can give him. 263 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 2: But I think Picture's gonna. 264 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,199 Speaker 4: Need maybe a couple more actual opportunities to be a 265 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 4: head coach in other interviews, maybe before they even start 266 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 4: considering that. 267 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 3: Timing and urgency I think are something that the Bengals 268 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 3: need to operate with this offseason. Last year it felt 269 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,839 Speaker 3: like too much of well, we got to wait to 270 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 3: get Jamar and t and Trey done before we can 271 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,839 Speaker 3: address the rest of the roster. Dalton Reisner wants to 272 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 3: be a Cincinnati Bengal. That seems like a layup. There 273 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 3: are also contracts that you could start to look to 274 00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 3: a DJ Turner, Chase Brown, players that even to daxx 275 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 3: Hill that maybe you could address their contracts earlier, get 276 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 3: that out of the way and move on. Do you 277 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 3: foresee any of those things happening if you are the 278 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 3: Cincinnati Bengals. 279 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 4: I think a lot of those may happen after the 280 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 4: bulk of the offseason. Like typically a lot of these 281 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 4: extensions happened in the summer around training camp or maybe 282 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 4: at the end of training camp, and you know, like 283 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 4: what happened with demartin t last year were kind of 284 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 4: the anomaly because they wanted to get those financials out 285 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 4: there so they could you know, utilized for agency, but 286 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 4: unfortunately it didn't happen because it took too long and 287 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 4: then they just missed out for free agency entirely. 288 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 2: So a guy like DJ. 289 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 4: Turner or a guy like Dax Hill, those are extensions 290 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 4: that you typically find in July, like Saith Brown could 291 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 4: be another guy like Jim Mixon was extended right before 292 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 4: the twenty twenty season. I could see that that timeline 293 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 4: matched up as well. I'm sure they're going to have 294 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 4: those internal talks because those guys are still under contract 295 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 4: for twenty twenty six. So I would imagine that the 296 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 4: first moves, as you'll see, you could see adult Reisner 297 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 4: extension or resigning around the same time as like Mike 298 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 4: a Seki resigned right before free agency. I think he'll 299 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 4: get an offer around that and he'll just decide if 300 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 4: it's the best warnd or if he wants to test 301 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 4: the open market. 302 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 2: Then they're going to fill. 303 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 4: Out other needs and FRA agency hopefully, and then then 304 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:09,599 Speaker 4: I think they kind of look inwards in terms of 305 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 4: maybe DJ Turner, dack Hill, and again I don't really 306 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 4: know how much those guys are going to command in 307 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 4: terms of guaranteed money, so maybe that puts a delay 308 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 4: in the negotiations. But for in typical Bengals timeline, you 309 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 4: would see those probably. 310 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 2: Around July and August. 311 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: You talked about how the excuse of things getting going 312 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: a little bit later than normal has already been used 313 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: by Zach Taylor. I think the other buzzword that's out 314 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 1: there has been continuity with the coaching staff. What do 315 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: you make of the idea of guys will get better 316 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: just because it's another year in the system. It's more familiarity, 317 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: that whole kind of idea of the continuity and the 318 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: value that it brings. 319 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 4: I think with Al Golden specifically in the defense, I 320 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 4: think the difference between this year and last year was 321 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 4: you saw an uptick in the defense because new guys 322 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 4: were playing for the first time, and those same guys 323 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 4: like like Jordan battle, you know, like a Joseph Osai, 324 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 4: you know, players of that nature. I think when they 325 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 4: were retained and obviously given larger roles this year in 326 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 4: a new scheme, and then it obviously took a long 327 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 4: time to really, you know, bear any fruit. I think 328 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 4: the fact that those same players improved as the season 329 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 4: went on, it does lends to the fact that you 330 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 4: could see how things could continue to progress with another 331 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 4: year under the scheme and system. I don't think there's 332 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 4: a there shouldn't be a ton of confidence in the 333 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 4: defensive scheme going forward and the coaching on out the 334 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 4: side of the ball in general, because of how bad 335 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 4: they were this year. But I do get the argument that, hey, 336 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 4: it's the same players that you took a jump previously 337 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 4: and then they just needed some time under this new scheme. 338 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 4: And now if you need, if you're going to find 339 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 4: out this scheme is actually worth anything, you got to 340 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 4: give them just one more year just to see if 341 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 4: it actually does bear any fruit. And if it doesn't, 342 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 4: then you know that this is just a waste of 343 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 4: time and you need to move on. So I understand 344 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 4: that I understand the coaching continuity aspect of it. And 345 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 4: obviously if they weren'ting to fire zat Kala, then they 346 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 4: probably weren't going to fire the defensive coordinator. That they're 347 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 4: not put pinion is on coaching. They're clearly o pinning 348 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 4: this on a lack of. 349 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 2: Talent on the roster. 350 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 3: Surely we're not going to be going back in on 351 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 3: the Genostone experiment, right, We're done with that. 352 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 2: Bingerstross. 353 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 3: What about a guy like Joseph Oosai, who I think 354 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 3: is hard to navigate because he's at a position of 355 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 3: value in the NFL, But I don't know if you 356 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 3: can evaluate enough based on the amount of games he 357 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 3: was able to play. What are your initial thoughts on 358 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 3: Joseph Osai and are you are you moving on from 359 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 3: Trey Hendrickson as well? 360 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 4: I think Trey I think Paul Daner put it perfectly 361 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 4: that bridge has basically been burned. I think the only 362 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 4: way that he comes back is on the tag. And 363 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 4: then I just don't know how either side wants to 364 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 4: play out what happened this past year, even if it 365 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 4: wasn't technically the franchise tag, but that whole situation just 366 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 4: seems like something that neither side wants to go through again. 367 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 2: I think it was. 368 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 4: I think with a side, there's interest to bring him back, 369 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 4: but I just don't think that he's done. He did 370 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 4: enough necessarily this year to warrant a significant raise, and 371 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 4: I think that he would get more money from an 372 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 4: other team on the over market. So this seems like 373 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 4: a situation which the Bengals offer him something, he declines 374 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 4: it initially, he sees what the over market has, and 375 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 4: maybe he comes back to the Bengals on whatever deal 376 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 4: that they offered. Could be a similar situations while Jermaine 377 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 4: Pratt went through a couple of years ago when he 378 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 4: decided to sess the market and he surprisingly came back 379 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 4: for a little bit less money than what you would 380 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 4: have expected. So I could see something to play out 381 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 4: like that. But to give you a real answer on 382 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 4: Genos Stone, there's just no there's no logistical reason as 383 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 4: to why that would lend to a resign. And I 384 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 4: think for as inadequate as the Bengals are in some 385 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 4: decision making, I think they are pretty good at realizing 386 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 4: when the players is not a fit and it's just 387 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 4: not good anymore. And I feel like that's just the 388 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 4: case of Genos Stone. So Gina may have more confidence 389 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 4: than himself as a player, and he may feel like 390 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 4: he can thrive in another defense, but it's not going 391 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 4: to be here. 392 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 3: I will I'll finish on the Bengals with this Demetrius 393 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 3: Knight and Barrett Carter, and I think you could look 394 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 3: and say, Okay, Demetrius Knight was improving. I don't look 395 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 3: at them as legit, jitimate linebackers if you're trying to 396 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 3: win a championship, and I think that's a position that's 397 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 3: gonna be very telling this offseason. What are your initial 398 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 3: thoughts on the linebacker room, because again, it's not a 399 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 3: stage right now where the Bengals can just wait on 400 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:14,719 Speaker 3: guys to develop for a couple of years. You need 401 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 3: guys that are making an immediate impact to try to 402 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 3: win a championship. What are you of you going into 403 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,439 Speaker 3: the offseason as what all unfold at the linebacker position 404 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 3: when next year comes around. 405 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 2: I totally agree. 406 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 4: I think that obviously both Carter and I will be 407 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 4: on the Rodsterek just because they were drafted last year 408 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 4: and they're not going anywhere. 409 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 2: I think it's more unlikely. 410 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 4: That both are going to be benched rather than both 411 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 4: are going to start but I do foresee a situation 412 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 4: where it's like in twenty twenty when Logan Wilson and 413 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 4: Jermaine Pratt were brought in. 414 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 2: Obviously, Pratt had a. 415 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 4: Year at his belt, but then they signed Josh Biden's 416 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 4: in free agency and Bids played a good chunk of 417 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 4: that twenty twenty season. He was a veteran, he knew 418 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 4: what he was doing, and he typically made the right 419 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 4: play more times than not. I think a veteran free 420 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 4: agent like that that could play significant snatch, that could 421 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 4: start over at least one of them, at least for 422 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 4: most of the season until maybe whoever you decide over, 423 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 4: whether it's Carter or Knight, whoever needs more time on 424 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 4: the bench, whoever needs more you know, leadership in front 425 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 4: of him and someone to teach him some tutelage there. 426 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 4: Whoever you decide to kind of stash on the bench. 427 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 4: There they can kind of learn under that Josh Bines 428 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 4: type better. And there are a couple of options that 429 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 4: you can look at in free agency that kind of 430 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 4: fill that role. That's what I foresee is the most 431 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 4: likely scenario there, because again I don't think that you 432 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 4: can roll into training camp with both Knight and Carter 433 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 4: as your undisputed starters there because even if it's possible 434 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 4: that both of them improve after this year, you can't 435 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 4: take that risk going into Week one. 436 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 3: Height is Sports, John Shearon, John, we thank you so much, 437 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 3: appreciate everything. What is your what's your off season look like? 438 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 2: Now? 439 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 3: What do you got going on? 440 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 2: The off season is completely chaos? 441 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 4: Right, Anything can happen at anytime except the Bengals fire 442 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 4: and head coach here, So you know whatever stuff does 443 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 4: happen will be on it on AC Sports Cincinnati will 444 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 4: be on it on your social media platforms YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, 445 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 4: Where where you can find eight of these Sports Cincinnati 446 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 4: we are there with short form video content and obviously 447 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 4: the articles I needed these Sports dot Com backs by Sincinnati. 448 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 2: Think you got so much for having me on with 449 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 2: this year. 450 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 3: You're the best man. We'll talk again soon, Thank you, 451 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 3: John Sports. 452 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 1: He's already agreed to let me call him for the 453 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: combine beautiful and the draft beautiful. 454 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 2: I forgot the mission the way. 455 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 3: We'll call him again for that. Uh. 456 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: I don't know if he'll pick. 457 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 2: Up for that call. Probably not. 458 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 3: You may not answer that call. Your talkbacks come up 459 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 3: next on the hold of the Bengals. ESPN fifteen thirty 460 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 3: Cincinnati Sports Station, Hey Alexa