1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,840
Speaker 1: He talks Station seven forty nine. I think about PARCV

2
00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,800
Speaker 1: talk station Happy Tuesday inside Scoop with Wright Bart and

3
00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:08,680
Speaker 1: his plus that Daniel Davis Deep Dive for the next

4
00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,600
Speaker 1: hour and Dusty Rhoades on how property taxes work and

5
00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,840
Speaker 1: Ken's School, Zoo's and first responders survived without them Without

6
00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,040
Speaker 1: further ado though, God bless you, welcome back to the

7
00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,480
Speaker 1: fifty five Kersey Morning Show. In matters involving legal questions,

8
00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:23,599
Speaker 1: not good to rely on me anymore. It's been a

9
00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,600
Speaker 1: while since actively practice law. Steve Gooden, though with the

10
00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,400
Speaker 1: outstanding law firm, Reporter Wright joins the program to explain

11
00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,599
Speaker 1: these matters formal counselmen. He is Steve Gooden. They went

12
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,600
Speaker 1: into executive session yesterday to talk about we think maybe

13
00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,480
Speaker 1: the settlement of this lawsuit, the Hinton family lawsuit, which

14
00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,280
Speaker 1: hasn't been filed, but to talk about settlement. Cheryl Long,

15
00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,600
Speaker 1: it was revealed, was in settlement discussions with the Hinton family.

16
00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,880
Speaker 1: Their son, eighteen year old was killed by a police

17
00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,120
Speaker 1: officer because while he was in a stolen car fleeing

18
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,080
Speaker 1: police and then he turned around with a gun pointed

19
00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,400
Speaker 1: in an officer and ended up losing his life. They

20
00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,640
Speaker 1: think that is a settlement worthy Now well, Christopher Smithen

21
00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:03,320
Speaker 1: was on the program this morning saying, if you go

22
00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:06,319
Speaker 1: into executive council, you must let the public know the

23
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,680
Speaker 1: subject matter, not the substance of what goes on in there,

24
00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,240
Speaker 1: but at least the subject matter before going into executive

25
00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,400
Speaker 1: council and said someone should file a lawsuit because they

26
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,320
Speaker 1: didn't do that. Steve Gooden, legal expert, is that a

27
00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:21,320
Speaker 1: justiciabal controversy?

28
00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:24,960
Speaker 2: You know what sure is? I did take a look

29
00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,280
Speaker 2: at the agenda. Brian, First, good morning, and second Smitherman

30
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,560
Speaker 2: is typically the case is correct and under a high law.

31
00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,840
Speaker 2: There are only two reasons you can go into executive session.

32
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,120
Speaker 2: One is to discuss potential litigation, which is apparently what

33
00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,400
Speaker 2: happened here. And number two, you can go in to

34
00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:47,600
Speaker 2: discuss a personnel matter, particularly a sensitive personnel matter regarding

35
00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:49,640
Speaker 2: someone who may have to be fired or what have you.

36
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,559
Speaker 2: I mean, those are reasons you're allowed as a public

37
00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,160
Speaker 2: official to go in and talk with your legal counsel

38
00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,920
Speaker 2: and your city manager off the record, as it were.

39
00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,880
Speaker 2: There's an attorney client privilege that attaches, so that in

40
00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,000
Speaker 2: and of itself isn't illegal. That is just that's a

41
00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,919
Speaker 2: place where state law trumps the local law. But that said,

42
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,320
Speaker 2: there's two big things about executive session. Legally. Number one,

43
00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,960
Speaker 2: you have to state which category it is that you're

44
00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:20,840
Speaker 2: talking about. Yesterday's agenda did not do that. We know

45
00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,480
Speaker 2: because of all the various leaks at City Hall that

46
00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,160
Speaker 2: they were talking about a potential hidden settlement, but they

47
00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,520
Speaker 2: didn't acknowledge that publicly. That's number one. Number Two, you

48
00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:35,120
Speaker 2: can't vote on the settlement, or actually vote on anything

49
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,280
Speaker 2: during executive session. The ultimate decisions have to be made

50
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:44,079
Speaker 2: out in a public forum. So for instance, this eight

51
00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,040
Speaker 2: point one million dollar travesty of a settlement they gave

52
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,120
Speaker 2: to the George Floyd protesters earlier this month. I mean,

53
00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,960
Speaker 2: they did have to actually go into regular session to

54
00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,280
Speaker 2: vote on that. We presume they had had prior executive

55
00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,080
Speaker 2: sessions about it. We didn't know. They're not doing a

56
00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,480
Speaker 2: very good job of putting out there that the executive session,

57
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,679
Speaker 2: you know, what the subject matter of them are. But

58
00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,520
Speaker 2: I mean that's really where this is. I mean, they

59
00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,919
Speaker 2: really should be telling people at least the general subject

60
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,760
Speaker 2: matter of what's going on here. It's a horrible look,

61
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,320
Speaker 2: but I guess, good thing for the taxpayers. City hall

62
00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,000
Speaker 2: leagues like a sieve and always has.

63
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does. And thankfully we have outlets that let

64
00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,120
Speaker 1: us know actually what's going on behind the scenes, because

65
00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,480
Speaker 1: they apparently are talking and coming out of the closed

66
00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,000
Speaker 1: door session, the executive session. No single city council member

67
00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,480
Speaker 1: of these spokespeople for the city manager or the city

68
00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,280
Speaker 1: manager or the mayor set a peep. They just refused

69
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,440
Speaker 1: comment to the enquire and of the local reporters on

70
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,240
Speaker 1: what they what they They could have said, we were

71
00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,000
Speaker 1: talking about a potential settlement. They're allowed to say what

72
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,720
Speaker 1: the subject matter is. They just couldn't talk about what

73
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:50,600
Speaker 1: specifically happened in the meeting, right.

74
00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, look, I mean, like

75
00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,400
Speaker 2: I said, there's only to mine. I mean, look, and

76
00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,760
Speaker 2: I've been advising the municipalities on and off for twenty

77
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,680
Speaker 2: five five years. There's really only two reasons why you

78
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,320
Speaker 2: have an executive session. And you're really supposed to put

79
00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,920
Speaker 2: that at least in the record, if not on the agenda.

80
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,080
Speaker 2: You know, I actually pulled the paper agenda off the

81
00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,840
Speaker 2: city's webside. It just says executive you know, session pursuant

82
00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,680
Speaker 2: to Ohio a biased code section. Blah blah blah. That's

83
00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:22,799
Speaker 2: all it says. So, you know, particularly if they're considering

84
00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,600
Speaker 2: doing something this sensitive, this unpopular, I mean, just to

85
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,159
Speaker 2: be very clear, what apparently is being contemplated here, you know,

86
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,680
Speaker 2: is you know, a settlement with this Hinton family where

87
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:38,719
Speaker 2: the father is currently facing trial for murdering a sheriff's deputy,

88
00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:43,560
Speaker 2: a totally innocent sheriff's deputy, purportedly because he watched the

89
00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:48,040
Speaker 2: video of his son being shot by police Cincinnati police

90
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,800
Speaker 2: and goes off and does this like senseless, horrific crime.

91
00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:52,760
Speaker 2: So I think one of the big issues is we

92
00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,040
Speaker 2: don't really have a law in Ohio as some states

93
00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,640
Speaker 2: do that would ban the father from getting some of

94
00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:01,839
Speaker 2: the pro seeds. Now, in all likelihood he's going to

95
00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:03,240
Speaker 2: be in jail the rest of his life. But I

96
00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,800
Speaker 2: think it will be major Hartburn. Even if this was

97
00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,919
Speaker 2: a band shooting of the young hunt and kid, which

98
00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,600
Speaker 2: every indication I've heard is that it is not. The

99
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,320
Speaker 2: prosecutor's office declined to prosecute the police officer, the city

100
00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,960
Speaker 2: has taken no action. I have not watched the video,

101
00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,400
Speaker 2: but I am told that you can see that the

102
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,400
Speaker 2: young man had a gun and was fleeing from a

103
00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,240
Speaker 2: stolen car, classic circumstances, and which use of force would

104
00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,400
Speaker 2: typically be justified by a police officer. Why they would

105
00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,400
Speaker 2: be trying to settle that in the first instance is

106
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,440
Speaker 2: a big question mark. And then a huge question mark

107
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,360
Speaker 2: is how and why would they be looking at giving

108
00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:44,080
Speaker 2: money to a family where the father has all but

109
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,520
Speaker 2: admitted to murdering a police officer. Well, I mean it's

110
00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,200
Speaker 2: a politically sentative situation times ten.

111
00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,800
Speaker 1: Well, since this idea that there was a settlement going

112
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,760
Speaker 1: on behind the scenes came out of the blue question

113
00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:57,360
Speaker 1: I had the other day and I've been told, yes,

114
00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,200
Speaker 1: the city solicitor does she have the authority to sell

115
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,400
Speaker 1: I mean, the city solicitor apparently has the authority to

116
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,760
Speaker 1: settle lawsuits. They don't need council's approval. City solicitor works

117
00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:07,800
Speaker 1: for the city manager. Does that mean that if the

118
00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:09,800
Speaker 1: city manager and the solicitor decide they're going to write

119
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,600
Speaker 1: a check for X amount of the hitting family, that

120
00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,680
Speaker 1: the council really has no control over that.

121
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,320
Speaker 2: Well, it depends on the circumstances. On Alan Brian, I mean,

122
00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:24,719
Speaker 2: there are I recall under the city's current administrative code,

123
00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 2: the city manager can settle smaller lawsuits, but I can't

124
00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,559
Speaker 2: remember what the exact monetary cutoff is. The council must

125
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,400
Speaker 2: approve a lawsuit, certainly anything in the seven figures, which

126
00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:41,160
Speaker 2: is typically what happens in a wrongful death scenario. So

127
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,760
Speaker 2: there are some smaller suits that the city solicitor and

128
00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,440
Speaker 2: the city manager can settle, but nothing like this. So

129
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,000
Speaker 2: if you're going to actually move bigger amounts of money,

130
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,960
Speaker 2: council has to approve it. Well, they're allowed to. I mean,

131
00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:01,040
Speaker 2: they routinely settle small thunder bender case with city vehicles

132
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,440
Speaker 2: and things of that nature. But the big things they

133
00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:04,680
Speaker 2: have to get approval, all.

134
00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,120
Speaker 1: Right, And I know right of time, Joe, But I

135
00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,240
Speaker 1: got to ask this one question. The Bell's been wrong.

136
00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,080
Speaker 1: They went into executive council sais without mentioning why they

137
00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:13,360
Speaker 1: were doing it. If that is an actionable offense, what's

138
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,120
Speaker 1: the legal recourse, what's the remedy for that? Because the

139
00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:18,679
Speaker 1: Bell's been wrong, they had the meeting.

140
00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, I mean, I mean typically what someone

141
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,200
Speaker 2: would do would be a taxpayer would file aolitical a

142
00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,240
Speaker 2: taxpayer lawsuit saying that they feel that their rights have

143
00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,280
Speaker 2: been violated, and you try to get into the Common

144
00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,560
Speaker 2: Police Court locally and see if you could convince a

145
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:39,800
Speaker 2: judge to award some sort of damages to that taxpayer

146
00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,880
Speaker 2: as a deterrent to these guys. You know, my concern

147
00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,680
Speaker 2: is that that really they don't seem to be all

148
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,119
Speaker 2: that interested in being deterred, and they don't really seem

149
00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,560
Speaker 2: to be paying any political price right now the way

150
00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,000
Speaker 2: the city voters are responding. So you file a lawsuit,

151
00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,000
Speaker 2: but what good would do I really don't.

152
00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,400
Speaker 1: Know, Maybe just to make a point judgment suitable for framing.

153
00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,720
Speaker 1: That's why we have legal expert Steve Goodin from the

154
00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,160
Speaker 1: law firm Reporter Right to help us out with these matters. Steve,

155
00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,000
Speaker 1: thank you so much for gring to join the program

156
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,080
Speaker 1: late in the game. And you're always welcome here, and

157
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:11,560
Speaker 1: you know we're going to be calling you anytime we

158
00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:13,440
Speaker 1: need sound legal advice and explanation.

159
00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:16,920
Speaker 2: Hey, anytime, Brian, you guys take care.

160
00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:18,960
Speaker 1: Happy New Year, my friend, Happy New Year. Five to

161
00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:20,720
Speaker 1: seventy or seven fifty seven fifty five K see the

162
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,280
Speaker 1: talk station. I'm going to hear the inside scoop with

163
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:23,560
Speaker 1: John Carney telling us