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Speaker 1: It's nice, Dan Ray. I'm going easy Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: All right, we beginning new here on a Wednesday night.

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Speaker 2: It is October fifteenth. We are halfway through October, heading

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Speaker 2: towards November at breakneck speed. My name is Dan Ray.

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Speaker 2: I'm the host of Nightside, and we have a great

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Speaker 2: show for you tonight lined up. We have four really

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Speaker 2: interesting guests in the first hour. We're going to get

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Speaker 2: to the first guest in just a moment, but let

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Speaker 2: me reintroduce to you Brooks, our producer, who is back

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Speaker 2: in the control room. He's all set to set you

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Speaker 2: up with phone calls after nine o'clock. We will talk

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Speaker 2: after nine o'clock about some problems that Starbucks is facing

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Speaker 2: and perhaps the entire coffee industry. We'll deal with that

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Speaker 2: at nine o'clock. Is sort of an economic story, but

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Speaker 2: I think you'll find an interesting way of the special

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Speaker 2: guest lined up for that. And then today Congressman Seth

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Speaker 2: Moulton of the sixth district up in here in Massachusetts

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Speaker 2: said he's going to run against fellow Democrat, going to

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Speaker 2: take on Senator Ed Markey, and spend some time talking

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Speaker 2: about that, and we may have a couple of other

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Speaker 2: topics as well, but without any further ado. It was

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Speaker 2: recently in Boston, coincidentally with the release of the remaining

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Speaker 2: living hostages hamas hostages from that horrific day two years

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Speaker 2: ago October sixth at the Nova Festival with us via telephone.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not exactly sure from where I might ask

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Speaker 2: where if that's possible, taal masor who is a Nova

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Speaker 2: Festival survivor good evening, tal. I believe that there was

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Speaker 2: some representatives of the folks who survived the attack on

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Speaker 2: the Nova Festival. The dance festival was in Boston. Did

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Speaker 2: we miss you in Boston or are you still in Boston

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Speaker 2: if you're able to tell us.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Hello, Hi, thank you for having made welcome. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: we are still in Boston. We are supposed to be

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Speaker 3: in Boston until a couple twenty first, going to be

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Speaker 3: our last day. So if anybody haven't been here yet,

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Speaker 3: you are more than welcome. We want as many people

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Speaker 3: as possible to hear our stories and to hear about

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Speaker 3: what happened to us on this horrible day on Aptober

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Speaker 3: seven to twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 2: Right that Noble exhibition is in Boston. It's entitled we

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Speaker 2: will dance again. You were there as a regular Friday

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Speaker 2: night out which turned into a horrific Saturday morning. Was

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Speaker 2: there anything before you realized what was going on? Was

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Speaker 2: there anything that it was relatively early in the morning,

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Speaker 2: it sounded as if young people were just having a

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Speaker 2: wonderful time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So basically it was one of the best parties

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Speaker 3: I've ever been been before. There were a lot of

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Speaker 3: beautiful young young women and man, we had the best

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Speaker 3: time of our life and we didn't know anything is

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Speaker 3: about to happen. We just at sunrise at approximately six

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Speaker 3: twenty nine, there began to shoot hundreds of missiles at

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Speaker 3: all across Israel and right above us. Some of them

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Speaker 3: actually hit the party area. But we had no idea

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Speaker 3: what's going to come. We were just going there to

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Speaker 3: dance and have fun and celebrate life.

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Speaker 2: And so when did you realize that that, well, you

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Speaker 2: realized with missiles that the nation of Israel is again,

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Speaker 2: as it's been so many times, under attack unprovoked. When

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Speaker 2: did you, folks at the dance festival realize that there

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Speaker 2: were people who had surrounded you on motorbikes and on

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Speaker 2: foot who were firing, you know, live rounds at all

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Speaker 2: of you.

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Speaker 3: So for me personally, there's a different story. For its survivor,

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Speaker 3: it's one of us experienced so many horrible things. But

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Speaker 3: for me personally, it was around seven point thirty an

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Speaker 3: hour after the attacks, again, because it took some time

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Speaker 3: for the Tarrist to reach from the border all the

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Speaker 3: way through the effectival area. It was approximately four miles

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Speaker 3: away from the border, so they were on the vehicles

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Speaker 3: they were at first they were encountering encountering other soldiers,

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Speaker 3: but after they killed all the other soldiers that protected us,

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Speaker 3: they reached the area of the party and at.

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Speaker 2: That point the really personal horror began. We've seen the videos.

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Speaker 2: I don't expect you to to relive them, but for

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Speaker 2: Americans who don't understand what it is like in Israel

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Speaker 2: to live under that, that mentality that at any moment

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Speaker 2: in size, I keep telling my listeners, tell that the

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Speaker 2: state of Israel is about the size physically of the

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Speaker 2: Nation of Israel is about the size of New Jersey.

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Speaker 2: It's it's not a huge parcel of land. And you

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Speaker 2: constantly have been for seventy seven years since the nation's

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Speaker 2: founding in May of nineteen forty eight, under constant barrage

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Speaker 2: psychologically and sometimes militarily. How was it that you were

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Speaker 2: able to You would not taken hostage, thank god? But

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Speaker 2: how what did you do? How in that situation were

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Speaker 2: you able to survive?

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Speaker 3: So for me, my story was that I had a

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Speaker 3: lot of luck at Shirst. I tried to find a

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Speaker 3: shelter somewhere to hide because there were a lot of missiles,

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Speaker 3: so we were trying to find a safe place to

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Speaker 3: hide form and we arrived the closest community nearby called

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Speaker 3: the Kibutraim. And when we arrived there, we find a

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Speaker 3: safe place. But that at first we found we figured

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Speaker 3: it's going to be safe. But after less than half

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Speaker 3: an hour, then the moment that we arrived there, the

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Speaker 3: terroristrated the entire community and started to slother people in

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Speaker 3: their own houses.

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Speaker 2: And children. And you you found yourself in that situation.

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Speaker 2: You must have seen these terrorists personally. You must have

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Speaker 2: seen them, I assume correct.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they had. They all they have was just dead

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Speaker 3: in their high eyes. They didn't care about anything. They

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Speaker 3: just came there to destroy and kill and do as

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Speaker 3: many horrible things they can as long as they have time.

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Speaker 3: They knew they the army is going to eventually kill them.

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Speaker 3: So they were on a suicide mission to kill as

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Speaker 3: many people as they can. They didn't care about conquering

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Speaker 3: stuff or taking care of anything. They just wanted to

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Speaker 3: kill and destroy as many as they can. They burned

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Speaker 3: down houses, they kidnapped people, they did horrible sexual stuff.

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Speaker 3: The things that I've witnessed and three thousands of us

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Speaker 3: have witnessed are unthinkable. I just hope that the world

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Speaker 3: is going to accept that everything that's happened to us,

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Speaker 3: it's real. It's not something that some people may say

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Speaker 3: that we deserved it maybe, or that we did it

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Speaker 3: on purpose. But they are just animals that just came

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Speaker 3: to our country. They decided to do these horrible things

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Speaker 3: to innocent people, not to soldiers, not to people that

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Speaker 3: tried to fight them, just for us dancers who went

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Speaker 3: to a music festival to dance, to have fun.

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Speaker 2: It's extraordinary. Look, look, I've I'm a big I don't

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Speaker 2: happen to be Jewish. I happen to be Roman Catholic.

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Speaker 2: But my dad was in World War Two and he

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Speaker 2: taught us about the Holocaust. I've been to Auschwitz. I've

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Speaker 2: seen the horrors of Auschwitz up close and personal. Television

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Speaker 2: reporter in the nineteen eighties. So I can't tell you

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Speaker 2: how much I admire the nation of Israel and the

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Speaker 2: Israeli people for their ability to come back. No one

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Speaker 2: ever could have imagined two years ago from tonight, you know,

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Speaker 2: about a week and a half after the attack by

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Speaker 2: the terrorists, that that today Hamas would be broken Hesballah

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Speaker 2: eliminated the Hooties in trouble Syria, Asad having escaped. Ironically, ironically,

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Speaker 2: Israel is probably stronger today than at any point in

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Speaker 2: its history, particularly when you compare what they've been able

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Speaker 2: to do to their enemies, to their sworn enemies who

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Speaker 2: want nothing other than to destroy Israel. And again, to

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Speaker 2: you sound like a young man, How old do you tell?

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Speaker 2: I assume you're probably in your twenties.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm plenty. And about what you just said, I

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Speaker 3: think that the awful thing for me is that the

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Speaker 3: way that our people got all together and we were

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Speaker 3: committed to the same cause of defendly are our only country.

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Speaker 3: There is only one Jewish country in the war in

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Speaker 3: the world, And it doesn't matter how many conflicts we

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Speaker 3: had between ourselves. The moment this war began, we were

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Speaker 3: coming together served our country, doing our best to make

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Speaker 3: sure all our enemies that are trying to eliminate us

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Speaker 3: are unable to do so. So I'm really proud to

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Speaker 3: be in Israeli right now, and I'm hoping that we

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Speaker 3: will have better days.

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Speaker 2: Well, I trust and believe that there will be better days.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate you coming to Boston. I hope you get

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Speaker 2: a chance to visit with people in Boston and to

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Speaker 2: understand that Boston is the city that supports the Israeli

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Speaker 2: people in the nation of israel. I. Don't want to

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Speaker 2: put politics into this, but I happen to be I'm

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Speaker 2: a little older than you, quite older than you, but

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Speaker 2: I do think that Prime Minister Nyahoo and the entire

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Speaker 2: Israeli nation stood up against all odds and not only

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Speaker 2: have survived, but have prevailed. And I just wanted to say,

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Speaker 2: thank God you're still here. Please enjoy Boston and know

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Speaker 2: that you have friends in this country, many more friends

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Speaker 2: than you can ever imagine. Okay, thank you Tal for

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Speaker 2: your time, and thank you for doing what you've done

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Speaker 2: on behalf of freedom and on behalf of your fellow

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Speaker 2: country people.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Thank you very much, And I

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Speaker 3: want to say thank you to the community in Boston.

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Speaker 3: They gave us a huge hugs and everybody that comes

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Speaker 3: to the exhibition they give us strength. And we are

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Speaker 3: really thankful for everything that you guys are doing towards us.

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Speaker 3: I wish I'd be one the best. And if you

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Speaker 3: haven't come to the exhibition yet, you are mold and welcome.

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Speaker 3: We are welcoming everyone, and we just want to spread

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Speaker 3: the word.

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Speaker 2: And where are you? Where is the exhibition? Well, I

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Speaker 2: have some information here. I just want to make sure

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Speaker 2: that we give this a mention.

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Speaker 3: Uh it is.

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Speaker 2: It's in South Boston.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And and people can get information I assume by going

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Speaker 2: to Jewish Boston dot com. Uh slash read slash the

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Speaker 2: Nova Exhibition.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they can just search it on Google Nova Exhibition.

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Speaker 3: This is going to be the top result.

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Speaker 2: That'd be great. Well again, congratulations on surviving, and may

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Speaker 2: you prosper and may Israel prosper and and let us

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Speaker 2: say once again, never again, never again.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Thank you, very much, John, very much.

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Speaker 2: You also can go Nova Exhibition dot com if you

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Speaker 2: want information as well. We'll be back on Night's side

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Speaker 2: right after these brief messages, is with a different issue

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Speaker 2: a different topic, but certainly that presentation by talt Mas

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Speaker 2: or a Nova Festival survivor, it's it's one that I'll

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Speaker 2: remember for a long time. I hope you will as well.

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Speaker 2: Back on Nightside after this, you're on night Side with

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Speaker 2: Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio. Well, fall is here.

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Speaker 2: We're past the CLUBUS Day, Indigenous People's Day weekend, we're

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Speaker 2: past the official arrival of We're about a month into fall.

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Speaker 2: What does that mean? Well for motorists, we have to

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Speaker 2: be a weird because we're going to see more moose

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Speaker 2: in deer on New England roadways this fall. Withing with

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Speaker 2: us as Martin Fie and he's the deer and moose

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Speaker 2: biologist wildlife health specialist at the Massachusetts Division of Fisheries

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Speaker 2: and Wildlife. Martin, Welcome to Night'side. Thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 4: Tonight, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: We're in breeding season from moose and deer, and that

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Speaker 2: means a lot of activity and a lot autom mouse

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Speaker 2: and deer have things other than automobile safety on their minds.

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Speaker 5: Correct, Yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 2: How much of a spike do we expect at this time?

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Speaker 2: As someone who took out a deer got to be

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Speaker 2: at least fifteen years ago on Thanksgiving Night. Horrifying experience.

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Speaker 2: They're everywhere.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, about sixty to seventy percent of deer collisions happen

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Speaker 5: in the stretch from mid October through early December, So

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Speaker 5: this is definitely when there's the highest risk across the state.

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Speaker 2: And they attribute that designer standards to the mating season.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so the rout cord the breeding season essentially runs

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Speaker 5: from mid October through early to mid November. For deer,

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Speaker 5: it peaks around November eleventh with Veterans Day, and then

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Speaker 5: the late rout will run all the way into early December,

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Speaker 5: and so during those periods you have heightened movement, a

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Speaker 5: lot more activity. We're just past the peak of the

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Speaker 5: rut for moose, so that peaks right at the end

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Speaker 5: of September, and especially their early rout behavior begins in

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Speaker 5: late August and runs through mid October. So we're kind

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Speaker 5: of at the end of it for moose, but now

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Speaker 5: is exactly when it starts picking up for deer.

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Speaker 2: Now. As bad as the deer collision is, and believe me,

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Speaker 2: I speak from perusual experience, deer collision is nothing to

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Speaker 2: shake a stick. It's bad, but collisions with a moose

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Speaker 2: are actually worse, as I understand it right or wrong.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely. I mean you're looking at an average sized

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Speaker 5: moose weighing about five to seven times the weight of

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Speaker 5: a full grown deer, So you have a lot more risk,

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Speaker 5: a lot more weight that can fall on top of

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Speaker 5: a vehicle. And there are certain aspects of moose that

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Speaker 5: make them much more dangerous for collisions, especially their dark

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Speaker 5: color that makes them really hard to see at night.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And also they have like longer legs than deer,

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Speaker 2: So if you hit a moose head on, meaning sideways,

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Speaker 2: and they're running across the road, you're gonna like like

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Speaker 2: an NBA an NFL linebacker, take out their legs, uh,

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Speaker 2: and the entire corpse of the of the body. This

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Speaker 2: mass of weight is certainly going to hit your windshield

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Speaker 2: and maybe even go through the windshield. I mean that

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Speaker 2: you got to really be y.

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Speaker 3: Yeah absolutely.

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Speaker 5: I mean one of the things that often happens when

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Speaker 5: you have collisions with a full grown moose is it'll

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Speaker 5: essentially crush the entire cab because if you're looking at

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Speaker 5: a full grown moose, their legs will be taken out

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Speaker 5: by your front bumper and then they'll fall with their

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Speaker 5: entire body weight, which can be upwards of eight hundred

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Speaker 5: to one thousand pounds, right on the cab.

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Speaker 2: Of the car. Is there a breakdown in the frequency

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Speaker 2: of deer versus moose collisions? Is it like a fifty fifth?

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming there are more deer out there than moose.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'm wrong. Tell me, well.

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Speaker 5: So moose collisions are pretty rare. So there's only a

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Speaker 5: dozen or so moose collisions each year in Massachusetts versus

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Speaker 5: in the tens of thousands of deer collisions each year.

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Speaker 5: So your risk is wors far, far higher with white

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Speaker 5: tail deer than it is with moss.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but the damage if you do happen to draw

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Speaker 2: the moose card as opposed to the deer card, you

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Speaker 2: run substantially more risk of physical injury and automotive destruction.

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Speaker 2: What about those little deer horns. For a while, I

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Speaker 2: had deer horns, those little plastic horns that you can

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Speaker 2: buy in a sporting good store. I think they actually

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Speaker 2: work from my experience. I can remember driving back in

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Speaker 2: the nineties going into WBC when I was working mornings

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Speaker 2: early in the morning in some of the Western suburbs

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Speaker 2: and I would see a deer freeze on the side

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Speaker 2: of the road. Do those little plastic deer horns they

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Speaker 2: seem to help me? What do you think of them?

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Speaker 2: You're much of an expert.

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Speaker 5: I think they're making you feel safer than you really are.

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Speaker 5: There's actually been a lot of really good independent testing

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Speaker 5: and a lot of researchers have spent a lot of

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Speaker 5: time and effort on a whole host of different tools.

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Speaker 5: Same thing with like deer whistles that have been deployed

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Speaker 5: throughout the nineties and two thousands. There are a lot

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Speaker 5: of different kind of products that were for sale to

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Speaker 5: help with deer collisions, but in reality they have very

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Speaker 5: little impact actually reduce so.

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Speaker 2: There's nothing you can do. I guess then probably drive

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Speaker 2: a little more cautiously and pay attention. Is it does

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Speaker 2: it make sense during this time of year to back

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Speaker 2: off the speed limit and instead of going thirty, if

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Speaker 2: you're in an area where you could comfortably go thirty,

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Speaker 2: back it down to twenty five. Maybe you diminish the

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Speaker 2: chances of a collision.

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Speaker 5: They're actually several things you can do, so certainly slowing

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Speaker 5: down is the most important thing, but it's also where

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Speaker 5: you slow down is really important. So if you're driving

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Speaker 5: along the roads, or especially on interstate areas or highways,

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Speaker 5: any place where the forests come right along the edges,

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Speaker 5: those are the areas you really want to slow down

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Speaker 5: to as soon as you're going through those, even if

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Speaker 5: you don't see any deer, because those create pinch points

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Speaker 5: that often deer will come to. Versus if you have

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Speaker 5: large open areas by some roadways, there you're more likely

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Speaker 5: to see deer. The other thing is, if you see

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Speaker 5: one deer, don't assume that that's the only deer there.

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Speaker 5: Deer there are very social animals, and if you see one,

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Speaker 5: there's usually going to be others right nearby, and so

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Speaker 5: one may stay still, but those others may jump out

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Speaker 5: into the road.

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Speaker 2: I always slow down when I see the signs that

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Speaker 2: say deer crossing. Do you read those signs? I will

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Speaker 2: give me time, But it's if you see a deer

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Speaker 2: crossing sign, it is a good idea to slow it

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Speaker 2: down because I assume those signs are there from past

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Speaker 2: experiences or maybe even past collisions.

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Speaker 5: Yep, those are all essentially there based on collision data.

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Speaker 5: MASSOT does a great job of collecting data on deer collisions,

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Speaker 5: and we work with them on a lot of communications.

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Speaker 5: You'll also see in different times in September, October, and

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Speaker 5: November the light up signs with extra warnings. When you

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Speaker 5: see those, definitely heed those warnings because we put those

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Speaker 5: specifically in areas that are at highest risk.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, Martin, thanks very very much. I had you

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Speaker 2: lean in there on that change up that I threw

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Speaker 2: at you. Mart you were thinking to yourself, does this

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Speaker 2: guy really think the deer or reading the signs? It's

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Speaker 2: an old joke. It's an old joke. Thanks very much

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Speaker 2: for your time. It's a serious subject and anytime you'd

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Speaker 2: like to come back on this or any other topic

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Speaker 2: dealing with wildlife. One, we want to preserve wildlife, and

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Speaker 2: we certainly don't want to have them as a new

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Speaker 2: hood ornament on our car, because that's that's a real problem.

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Speaker 2: Martin Fien He is the Dear and Moose biologist wildlife

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Speaker 2: health specialist at the Massachusetts Division of Fisheries and Wildlife.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Martin, appreciate it. Good night. When we come back

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Speaker 2: with the release of the Israeli hostages, we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk with a neuroscientist about trauma and survival. It's the

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Speaker 2: leading neuroscientists and advisors at the Pentagon author a book

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Speaker 2: called Warhead, How the Brain Shapes War and War Shapes

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Speaker 2: the Brain. Doctor Nicholas Right joins us right after this

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Speaker 2: quick break on Nightside.

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Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: We talked earlier tonight with not a hostage survivor, but

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Speaker 2: a Nova Festival survivor. And now we're going to speak

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Speaker 2: with doctor Nicholas Right, a leading neuroscientist, and he's an

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Speaker 2: advisor to the Pentagon. He's authored a new book called Warhead,

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Speaker 2: How the Brain Shapes the War and War Shapes the Brain,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Wright. I think that people have studied war and

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Speaker 2: the impact that hasn't on people's brains. We certainly talk

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Speaker 2: about PTSD, but generations before you used to talk about

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Speaker 2: shell shock. Is there much difference between shell shock of

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Speaker 2: World War One and PTSD of today?

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Speaker 4: Hi?

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Speaker 1: Hi, Thanks thanks for having me on that. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: That's a great question. I mean, there will almost certainly

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Speaker 1: be a new term fifty or one hundred years from now,

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Speaker 1: so I think you're absolutely right. What we have is

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Speaker 1: there have always been ways in which our brain copes

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Speaker 1: and sometimes can't cope with the challenges that it faces,

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Speaker 1: and doctors will always call those uh you know, those

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Speaker 1: problems are by different names. Shell shock was what they

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Speaker 1: talked about, and really that was a new thing around

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Speaker 1: World War One. And I'm sure that in the future

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Speaker 1: we will we will understand these issues even better than

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Speaker 1: we do today.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about the book, your book, Warhead. How

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Speaker 2: the brain shapes war and war shapes the brain. I

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Speaker 2: can understand the concept of war shaping the brain. How

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Speaker 2: does the brain shape shape war?

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Speaker 1: Well, war is always violence between human groups, between humans,

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Speaker 1: and the human brain has always been the central weapon

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Speaker 1: of war. Whether you're a frontline soldier and you need

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Speaker 1: to stand and fight, or perhaps you run away. If

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Speaker 1: you need to lead others, if you are a leader,

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Speaker 1: like a general pattern or a nimics in World War two,

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Speaker 1: or whoever you might be, how do you lead others?

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Speaker 1: How do you get others to follow you? How can

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Speaker 1: you be a better leader? And then equally, if you

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Speaker 1: are a supreme leader, you are the president of the

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Speaker 1: United States, for example, how can you not just make

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Speaker 1: clever decisions? But why the decisions? And that couldn't matter

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Speaker 1: more than it does today. Because still right today, there

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Speaker 1: are specific human brains that we'll be making decisions about

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Speaker 1: war and peace and nuclear weapons. And nothing is more

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Speaker 1: important for our human future than that, no question.

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Speaker 2: And right now, for example, we're dealing with a guy

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Speaker 2: in Putin in Russia who is intent onjust obliterating and

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Speaker 2: what I perceive as an innocent population such as Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: Zelensky wants Tomahawk missiles, which I can understand because he

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Speaker 2: wants to strike further within Russia. I suspect that most

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Speaker 2: Americans would say, give him the more Tomahawk missiles. But

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Speaker 2: when you're dealing with Putin, what mde his response to

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Speaker 2: that be? That's where it gets really dangerous and complicated.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Putin obviously is an individual, and he's

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Speaker 1: a very sophisticated individual, and he's a product of his culture,

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Speaker 1: he's a product of his training in the KGB. But

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Speaker 1: still he has a human brain. And the thing to

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Speaker 1: remember is that he is also very skilled at using

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Speaker 1: his knowledge about other human brains work. So, to give

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Speaker 1: you an example, he is an expert. You talked about

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Speaker 1: tom howkmissoff, how he might respond to things. He is

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Speaker 1: an expert at understanding how humans respond to things like fear,

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Speaker 1: so it's give you an example. There was a in

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Speaker 1: his sort of quasi autobiography that he wrote a few

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Speaker 1: years ago. He talked about when he was a young

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Speaker 1: man growing up in a Leningrad, dilapidated Leningrad apartment block,

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Speaker 1: he used to chase rats with sticks for fun, and

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Speaker 1: then one day the rat was cornered, and then he

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Speaker 1: describes how it was the rat that started chasing him

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Speaker 1: and that is something that fear does. Though when you

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Speaker 1: can escape, you might run, but when you were cornered, fight.

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Speaker 1: And he is someone who, through his KGB training, through

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Speaker 1: his years of experience, is someone who deeply understands how

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Speaker 1: to manipulate others brains.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's too bad the rat didn't win that fight.

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Speaker 2: It would have only been only been appropriate, yes, but

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Speaker 2: but probably there would have been another megalomaniac who would

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Speaker 2: be in charge of that country. It is, there's so

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Speaker 2: much going on right now, and again, without imposing on

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Speaker 2: your your personal thoughts, uh be you I'm sure must

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Speaker 2: have studied the leaders of the countries that are at

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Speaker 2: war right now, President Trump, President putin President Zelinski.

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Speaker 4: You have.

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Speaker 2: Ping in China as as well. As the guy in

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Speaker 2: North Korea, you, I'm sure, look at these, are there

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Speaker 2: any that are more unpredictable than I'm not asking to

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Speaker 2: make judgments good, bad, or indifferent, But do any of

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Speaker 2: them share the characteristics of unpredictability, which which should not

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Speaker 2: be a characteristic associated with anyone who has their fingers

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Speaker 2: on nuclear weapons?

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Speaker 1: Well, in a way, you have to be unpredictable. You

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Speaker 1: have to be a bit irrational if your finger is

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Speaker 1: on the nuclear button. And the reason I say that

438
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: is that what you were trying to do is you

439
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: were saying, so the presidence of the United States is

440
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: saying to the presidents of Russia or formerly the head

441
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: of the Soviet Union, if you attack me, I will

442
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 1: spite back. I will fire back, even though what that

443
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: means is is probably I will bring you know, absolute

444
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: calamity upon or the whole of humanity. So you are

445
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: making a threat that is in some ways irrational, that

446
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 1: is in some ways not sensible, and so you have

447
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 1: to be a bit crazy, you know, you have to

448
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: combine both the iceman of you know, I'm responsible and

449
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: one with a bit of the maverick of saying I'm

450
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: prepared to do what it takes to get the job done.

451
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: So that is that is absolutely central. And our brain's

452
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: actually like an orchestra in which we have more rational

453
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: and then we also have more emotional and lots of

454
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: other aspects to our brains that we're learning so much about.

455
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: Now, let me ask you one more pointed question, Okay,

456
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 2: because I don't get a chance to talk to experts

457
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 2: like you. Earlier this year, President Trump authorized taking out

458
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: the nuclear weapon nuclear weapon facility in Iran, and from

459
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: all that I've read, uh, it was obliterated, and that

460
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: Iran has been very quiet in the last few weeks,

461
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 2: in the last few months. What lesson does Putin take

462
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 2: from that strike, if any in your opinion.

463
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,160
Speaker 1: I think, I mean, Vladimir Putin has a lot going

464
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: on that specific strike on Iran. So, for example, a

465
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: while ago, I held part of a Shaheed drone. This

466
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: is an Iranian drone that they captured in Ukraine and

467
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: I held part of it. And Iran and Russia have

468
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: been working closely in Ukraine in a variety different ways

469
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: and more broadly, but ultimately, right now, Vladimir Putin's number

470
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: one priority is the security of Vladimir Putin in his

471
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: regime within Russia. That is absolutely number one priority. His

472
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: number two priority is probably the war in Ukraine, right,

473
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: and then the things that are happening elsewhere they are

474
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: lower down his priority list. And when you talked about

475
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: the unpredictability, for example, I think, actually that's one of

476
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: the things that President Trump does quite well, and using

477
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: unpredictability can actually help not just help you win in

478
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: a war, but it can also help you create peace,

479
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: which I think you don't think about, but your Unpredictable

480
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: novel creative moves of central to how we produce peace

481
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: just as much as out how we win wars.

482
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

483
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: Ironically, President Trump's action, in my opinion, against Iran took

484
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 2: a run off the stage as a nuclear player, and frankly,

485
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 2: I think that was a good thing, and I hope

486
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 2: the world feels the same way as well, because I

487
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,959
Speaker 2: think that that regime above all was the most in

488
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 2: ways predictable and unpredictable. And then I think that if

489
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: they had the weaponry, they would have used it on

490
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 2: Israel at a moment's notice. So fascinating area of study.

491
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 2: Doctor Wright. Thank you very much. Your book is Warhead,

492
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 2: How the Brain Shapes War and War shapes the brain.

493
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for being with us tonight. We

494
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 2: really enjoyed the conversation.

495
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 4: Thank you, thanks so much.

496
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: Bye bye, thank you, goodbye. When we get back, when

497
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 2: I talk about Halloween, going to talk with the chief

498
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: of Chroniology at Tough's Medical Center, doctor James or Eulson.

499
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 2: We'll get the correct pronunciation. I will leave me out.

500
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 2: We will. We're going to talk about scary movies and

501
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: scary activities, spooky movies, spooky activities, and what impact that

502
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: might have on your heart and should certain people forego

503
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 2: getting scared Halloween Cummings is on its way, but a

504
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 2: little little more than two weeks away. Back on Nightside

505
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 2: right after this.

506
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: It's night Side with.

507
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: My guess is doctor James Eulisson, Chief of Cardiology at

508
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: Tops Medical Center, Doctor Utlsson, how are you tonight?

509
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 4: Very well, Dan, thank you so much.

510
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 2: I'm sure you must know our great mutual friend who

511
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: passed all too soon, doctor Larry Cone over at Brigham

512
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: and Women's Hospital.

513
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, he was a you know, really a

514
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 4: search cardiac surgery legend for sure. Taught us all a lot.

515
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: It's one of my closest friends and I I I

516
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 2: miss him so much. Every day. He used to come

517
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 2: on my show and take phone calls from listeners for

518
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: like two hours at a time, and he had a

519
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 2: great sense of humor. I mean, I told him, in

520
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: another life, you're going to become a radio talk show host.

521
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: I mean, it was not that a radio talk show

522
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 2: host can hold the candle to the intellectual capacity of

523
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:21,959
Speaker 2: folks like you. Doctor.

524
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 4: I don't know about that. I'm not sure I could

525
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 4: do four hours every night like you.

526
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 2: There was some nights, but I'm not sure if I've

527
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: done four hours. But anyway, so let's talk about getting scared.

528
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 2: On Halloween. Everyone's going to be watching scary movies or

529
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 2: engaging in spooky activities, and I guess it does potentially

530
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: impact your heart. I'm hoping you're gonna say, hey, this

531
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 2: is a minimal adverse impact, because I like my scary movies.

532
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 2: Tell us about us.

533
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it is probably a small p problem,

534
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 4: although you know it is an identifiable So do you

535
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 4: remember about thirty years ago the north Ridge earthquakes in

536
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 4: southern California in the early nineties, Yes, I do. Yeah,

537
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 4: some clever cardiology investigators out there wanted to They wanted

538
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 4: to look at this issue. You know, does that kind

539
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 4: of stress impact cardiovascular health? And so what they did

540
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 4: is they looked at emergency departments around the region on

541
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 4: the day of the earthquake and compared the number of

542
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 4: people being brought in for a cardiac arrest on that

543
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 4: day compared to the same date a year before and

544
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 4: two years before. And what they found was that there

545
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 4: was about a four or five times increase in people

546
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 4: being brought in for cardiac arrests on the day of

547
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 4: the earthquake. And so, yeah, so something about the stress

548
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 4: of the earthquake triggered fatal or near fatal rhythm problems

549
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 4: in susceptible people. You know. Now the you know, the

550
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 4: reason I said smallp problem is the absolute risk. The

551
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 4: absolute number of people is still small, but it's just

552
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 4: larger than you would expect, you know, in from routine,

553
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 4: everyday thing. So that was really one of the early

554
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 4: studies that suggested that stress or extreme stress might you know,

555
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 4: trigger some cardiovascular problems.

556
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 2: Okay, so we all go through stress during the day.

557
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 2: I mean, some of us go through stress watching the

558
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 2: Patriots on Sunday afternoon. I know, doctor Conor and.

559
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 4: I less this year, right, Well.

560
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: Less this year, but then there's still some stress involved

561
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: in watching it. And doctor Calin loved the Patriots and

562
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 2: we went to several games together. I loved the big,

563
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 2: great sports guy. So just about everything you do in

564
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 2: life is stressful. I like to think about and I'm

565
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 2: not as cardiologist as I'm not even close, but I

566
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: think about good stress and bad stress. Is there good

567
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 2: stress and bad stress? Or is all stressed by definition

568
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 2: bad in your opinion?

569
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 4: No? I mean I think you know, a good stress

570
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 4: on the body might be, for instance, exercise. You know,

571
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 4: it's a stress, ye, And that's very good and it

572
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 4: reduces the risk of cardiovascular problems over time. And that's

573
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 4: the good stress. You know. Bad stress is chronic anxiety.

574
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 4: You know, chronic depression and anxiety. You know these We

575
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 4: know from many studies that these lead to higher levels

576
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 4: of chronically higher levels of adrenaline, which can have a

577
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 4: very negative impact on health for sure, cardiovascular health.

578
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. I learned from doctor doctor Cohn to doctor Cone

579
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: to get in the gym, spend some time every day

580
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 2: elevating that heart rate.

581
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, actually the first person that told us that

582
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 4: was also with Paul Dudley White at the Brigham in

583
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 4: the nineteen forties and fifties when people didn't know that

584
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 4: he was the first advocate.

585
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, you know, another another legend, and I just

586
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 2: you know, it's so great, and I mean this seriously

587
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 2: that there are people like you and doctor Adler at

588
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: Brigham and Women's and doctor Colin. The work that you

589
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 2: folks have done for so many of your patients. I mean,

590
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 2: it's extraordinary, it's absolutely.

591
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 4: I think it's also it also represents a triumph really

592
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 4: of science and evidence. And you know, if you look

593
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 4: at what's happened in the last fifty sixty years, you know,

594
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 4: the risk of heart attack and stroke has gone down

595
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,399
Speaker 4: as there's less smoking and better control of high blood

596
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 4: pressure and much better control of cholesterol and drugs that

597
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 4: can do that that are proven in clinical trials. So

598
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 4: you know, it's a triumph of science and a triumph

599
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 4: of people advocating, you know, for their patients to be healthy.

600
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 2: If I could, I'd like to tell you one story

601
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 2: that doctor Colnbe told me, which I've never told in

602
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 2: the year, but I think you'll appreciate this. Larry, as

603
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 2: you know, grew up in San Francisco and he was

604
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 2: a big sports fan and as a high school student,

605
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,359
Speaker 2: one day he saw Joe Demagio at a high school

606
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 2: football game and he was transfixed on Demasho as the

607
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 2: height of Demashio's career, married to Marilyn Monroe, and he

608
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 2: chased after Demashu to get an autograph, and Demajhu ignored him,

609
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: and it was just Larry walking next to Demajhu in

610
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 2: the street, and Demashu had finally Demasio consented to give

611
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 2: him an autograph, and Larry treasured that for his entire

612
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 2: life and would show it to me periodically with great pride.

613
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 2: But I thought to myself that if there was there

614
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,720
Speaker 2: is a god, and I hope there is, I wish

615
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 2: that that god could have looked down on him and said,

616
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: you don't shoe. You think he kind of a big

617
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: guy here in New York Yankee fifty six game history,

618
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 2: But see that kid who he just kind of treated badly.

619
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 2: He's going to do about eleven thousand heart surgeries in

620
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: his life. He's going to affect a lot more people

621
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 2: than you ever could imagine. But it just it just

622
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: showed you to me, Treed everybody, Well, yes, yes, because

623
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 2: it could have he could have been treating Joe Demagio.

624
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 2: But no again, my hat's off to all you cardiologists.

625
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 2: And as I say, I never missed the opportunity to

626
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 2: mention a great friend, Larryone, who had a great deal

627
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 2: of impact, positive impact on my life, in the life

628
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 2: of so many people, and I know you have the

629
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 2: same at the same time, have a roster of people

630
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 2: over the years that you have helped. So once again,

631
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 2: thank you.

632
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 4: Our privilege always to take care of people, and people

633
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 4: should be out there exercising and taking good medications and

634
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 4: taking good care of themselves.

635
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I was in the gym at eight oh five

636
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 2: this morning and I'll be there to more too.

637
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 4: Thanks doctor, Thank.

638
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 2: You so much. I'd love to have you back. Okay,

639
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,919
Speaker 2: thank you so much. Good night. When we get back,

640
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about Boston's Coffee Council, a lot

641
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:52,240
Speaker 2: going on in the Boston coffee scene, also internationally, things

642
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 2: that I have only become aware of today, and I

643
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 2: would love to have you join this conversation that's coming

644
00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 2: up on the other side of the nine o'clock news.

645
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: A night shot