Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American? Plon me back
Speaker 1: on seven hundred. W welw.
Speaker 2: I don't have to tell you about care costs, and
Speaker 2: justin like since two thousand, they the number there has tripled.
Speaker 1: In most cases, we're tied.
Speaker 2: I'm just talking about healthcare, but pharmaceuticals and everything, and
Speaker 2: we know what's kind of driving that. Congress is allegedly
Speaker 2: addressing it and trying to make things more affordable. I
Speaker 2: don't know how that's going to work with the HSAS.
Speaker 2: It's a big question. And we've talked to a lot
Speaker 2: of people at the receiving end, patients like me and you,
Speaker 2: healthcare providers, doctors, nurses, et cetera. Very well, very rarely
Speaker 2: we get a chance to talk to somebody on the inside,
Speaker 2: and we do today.
Speaker 1: It's Beth Kaiser.
Speaker 2: She's the West region president for Anthem, Blue Cross, Blue Shield,
Speaker 2: joining the show. Good morning, How are you, Beth?
Speaker 3: Good morning Scott. It's nice to be with you there
Speaker 3: in Ohio.
Speaker 2: When you think about the most hated institutions in America,
Speaker 2: you know, even above maybe politicians and trial ors, certainly
Speaker 2: the healthcare professionals like yourself come to mind. We saw
Speaker 2: the assassination of healthcare CEO. And additionally, there are constant,
Speaker 2: NonStop stories about people who pay their premiums and yet
Speaker 2: they're denied coverage even when it's life saving. And you know,
Speaker 2: someone in the media or online gets involved and you
Speaker 2: guys reverse your policy and it's a black eye and
Speaker 2: it feels like it's coming at you every single day.
Speaker 2: How are you guys responding to and feeling this pressure?
Speaker 3: Beth, I would say that all stakeholders are filling pressure
Speaker 3: now too. Have you know, the affordability of health care
Speaker 3: be an issue and so you know what we say
Speaker 3: at Anthem is Anthem Blue Cross, Blue Shield, is that
Speaker 3: unaffordable healthcare is inaccessible healthcare. So it's a critical time
Speaker 3: for us.
Speaker 2: What is the latest affordability to numbers that you guys
Speaker 2: do internally show? And how do our auto pocket increases
Speaker 2: in Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana compared to other states outside
Speaker 2: the Midwest.
Speaker 3: Gosh, and you know some people follow the rand study
Speaker 3: from years ago, but certainly shows that there's plenty of
Speaker 3: work for both of our states to do. But just
Speaker 3: to give you some facts, the US healthcare spending grew
Speaker 3: seven and a half percent in twenty twenty three, reaching
Speaker 3: nearly four point nine trillion, and as you know, that's
Speaker 3: continued to escalate. Prescription drugs spending alone increase more than
Speaker 3: eleven percent last year. So these trends are putting significant
Speaker 3: strains own individuals, employers, and government programs.
Speaker 2: And we also, let's face this demographic demographic issue. As
Speaker 2: baby boomers get older and older, they're going to use more,
Speaker 2: need more care, and there are a few people at
Speaker 2: the end to pay for that, and so it overwhelms
Speaker 2: the system. And then you factor in people who need assistance,
Speaker 2: and it it's even worse.
Speaker 4: This is true.
Speaker 3: So that's one of the reasons addressing people's health from
Speaker 3: a holistic standpoint, looking at whole health is so important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's part of the Republican plan. But I
Speaker 2: don't dismiss that because we all have a stake in
Speaker 2: our health. But I mean, let's face it, if the
Speaker 2: healthcare plan is, hey, take better care of yourself and
Speaker 2: your incentives to do so, that that's fine. But so
Speaker 2: many people, and it seems seemingly there's a story every
Speaker 2: day about someone who's you know, the drug cost for
Speaker 2: something for their kid or a loved one is so
Speaker 2: exorbitant they have to file for bankruptcy.
Speaker 1: That shouldn't be happening, but it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And delaying and skipping care can affect people in
Speaker 3: the healthcare system as well. So we have to keep
Speaker 3: it affordable because if those health issues that individuals have
Speaker 3: worsen are they become harder to treat, they certainly become
Speaker 3: more expensive as well. And so that a lot of
Speaker 3: people think, well, that only impacts the individual, but actually
Speaker 3: it impacts more than the individual's health outcomes. It puts
Speaker 3: a strain on the broader healthcare system and it drives
Speaker 3: up costs for.
Speaker 4: All of us.
Speaker 2: How do you determine who gets care for some specific
Speaker 2: disease lets, I don't know. It might be I mentioned
Speaker 2: the horror stories, right that someone who's denied care clearly
Speaker 2: they're sick. It becomes a news story, goes viral, and
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden and maybe not you guys,
Speaker 2: but another healthcare insurance make insured, maybe like yourself, and
Speaker 2: others will go ay, okay, well we're going to take
Speaker 2: care of this person because of public pressure in.
Speaker 1: The outcome, right, how are those decisions made at the
Speaker 1: granular level?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say many employers, individuals, families are determining
Speaker 3: how do they access healthcare, how do they make it affordable?
Speaker 3: And so we are addressing that by the first looking
Speaker 3: to see the factors that are causing the increase health
Speaker 3: care costs, and those factors include an aging population, people
Speaker 3: with increased chronic conditions like you mentioned, Scott, escalating drug prices,
Speaker 3: provider consolidation, fraud and abuse, as well as ongoing legislative changes.
Speaker 3: And then we're working to address that with the stakeholders
Speaker 3: that you mentioned as well.
Speaker 2: She's Beth Kaiser, she's a president of Blue Cross Blue
Speaker 2: Shields and and Blue Cross Blue Shield West Region president.
Speaker 2: Talking about health care costs and the insurance end of
Speaker 2: this thing. One of the other elements here is hospital consolidation.
Speaker 2: We've seen that accelerate tremendously here in our region, Beth,
Speaker 2: and how does that help with rates? And we also
Speaker 2: worry about rural areas too. We're in Cincinnati, you're out
Speaker 2: in Indye, but there's a lot of country between us
Speaker 2: and you and across both of these states as well
Speaker 2: as Kentucky where rural hospitals and clinics are closing it
Speaker 2: record amounts.
Speaker 3: How do we address that, yeah, and unfortunately, you know
Speaker 3: a lot of people think just what you mentioned that
Speaker 3: when healthcare providers going together, it may be lower costs,
Speaker 3: but often it means that patients have fewer choices and
Speaker 3: the prices actually go up. So what we're doing at
Speaker 3: ANT and Blue Cross Blue Shield to address those challenges
Speaker 3: is we're prioritizing strategies that protect affordability and enhance the
Speaker 3: value for our members. And the way we're doing that
Speaker 3: is we're creating benefits and contracts with our provider partners
Speaker 3: that give people access to mini quality providers, and at
Speaker 3: the same time, we're helping focus on the think using
Speaker 3: AI and data to make sure that we're cutting waste
Speaker 3: and avoiding unnecessary treatment, which also helps keep costs down.
Speaker 3: But when I speak specifically to waste and fraud and waste,
Speaker 3: there's things that now with AI as well as that
Speaker 3: we're allowed through billing to look at for unusual charges
Speaker 3: that may have occurred in the system, such as phantom
Speaker 3: billing where they're built for a service that didn't occur,
Speaker 3: double billing where they're bill twice, and then upcoding where
Speaker 3: they're charged for a service at a higher rate than
Speaker 3: what was provided.
Speaker 2: One of the things you hear from government on this
Speaker 2: Beth is waste frawed abuse, waste fraud abuse constantly. But
Speaker 2: you know, I always contended that if you're a business
Speaker 2: like you are, and you're in the business of providing healthcare,
Speaker 2: but you have to be profitable, uh in you you
Speaker 2: probably do a better job than anyone as far as
Speaker 2: that and making sure that those people who are using
Speaker 2: the care, or vendors particularly are getting what they deserve,
Speaker 2: but not more or less.
Speaker 4: We do.
Speaker 3: It's important though, I mean, you know, we want to
Speaker 3: make sure we're looking at individuals and members in their
Speaker 3: whole health, so helping them remain healthy longer in life
Speaker 3: and helping them have a tool and the support they need.
Speaker 3: Where in the past we were much you know, we
Speaker 3: were known, how plans were know more for you know,
Speaker 3: just managing the quality, the costs and administration of billing.
Speaker 3: We feel at Anton Blue Cross we shield that we
Speaker 3: have a larger role to play.
Speaker 2: Let's segue to pharmacy benefits. That's a big one. PDM's right.
Speaker 2: Pharmacy benefit managers not quite sure what they do, but
Speaker 2: they drive the cost up. That is the constant cry.
Speaker 2: I guess that you probably hear. What percentage of premium
Speaker 2: increases can you attribute to prescription drug costs and specifically,
Speaker 2: how do.
Speaker 1: You address that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mentioned just a minute ago that the prescription
Speaker 3: drug spending alone has increased more than eleven percent from
Speaker 3: last year. But what specifically We've been focused on negotiating
Speaker 3: lower costs around specialty pharmacy as well. That's an important
Speaker 3: area for us, and our responsibility is to negotiate lower price.
Speaker 2: You know that's the model, but seemingly prices continue to
Speaker 2: spiral upward.
Speaker 1: Where's that coming from?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would just say that, I mean, we all
Speaker 3: want we all want access to the best and to
Speaker 3: the latest, and we want to make sure we give
Speaker 3: our members access. So we feel like as we negotiate
Speaker 3: for better drug costs, especially around the specialty costs, that
Speaker 3: we can bring those costs down.
Speaker 2: I've had this happen personal experience, family experience with this
Speaker 2: to where there's times where insurance and we're Anthem Blue
Speaker 2: Crossbow Shield where we work here at iHeart and have
Speaker 2: very good coverage. I can't complain. Some people, obviously you
Speaker 2: don't have that, maybe your experience varies, but pay a
Speaker 2: fair amount of money for that. Absolutely. When it comes
Speaker 2: to the pharmacy, though, I've noticed at times where we'll
Speaker 2: go in and say, okay, here's your prescription. Well how
Speaker 2: much do I pay out of pocket? And it's less?
Speaker 2: Or if I use something like good orax with it,
Speaker 2: which is like a discount. Why would that occur if
Speaker 2: indeed we're negotiating the lowest prices? Why do Why are
Speaker 2: some medicines cheaper if you get them out of pocket
Speaker 2: or use a discount.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that it depends upon the individual. So
Speaker 3: in your I mean, this is the reason it's so
Speaker 3: important for us to be talking about affordability because without
Speaker 3: I mean, the individual's portion of being engaged and involved
Speaker 3: in their health and understanding what tools, what discounts, what
Speaker 3: their benefit structure looks like, helps them to be a
Speaker 3: more empowered member and to your point, be aware of
Speaker 3: costly option.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We're talking to Beth Guiser this morning on the Scots
Speaker 2: Loan Show seven hundred wol she's a regional president for
Speaker 2: Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield talking to Ensure about what
Speaker 2: can be done about high costs and always, almost always
Speaker 2: we blame the insurance companies, but there's a lot driving
Speaker 2: that as well, and we're kind of getting into this
Speaker 2: morning here on the show in a limited time that
Speaker 2: we have. One of the other questions too, is surprise
Speaker 2: medical billing. You know, Trump in his first term said hey,
Speaker 2: we know we're going to disclose prices. You're going to
Speaker 2: know what you're get coming in and still most of
Speaker 2: those metrics have not been hit. That is a huge
Speaker 2: complaint before federal legislation, and we've had a you know,
Speaker 2: the President doing that and moving even more I think
Speaker 2: in this term to do that. But we're sti getting
Speaker 2: unexpected bills and costs despite the reforms. Why does that
Speaker 2: remain problematic?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I would just say, first, we fully support the No
Speaker 3: Surprises Act because the intention was for it to protect
Speaker 3: patients from receiving surprise to healthcare bills. But as you mentioned, Scott,
Speaker 3: there have been some issues, some unintended consequences, some fraudulent
Speaker 3: behavior that have unintentionally raised those costs. And so we're
Speaker 3: committed at ANS and Blue Crossley Shield to fixing the
Speaker 3: No Surprises Act, and in twenty twenty six we'll introduce
Speaker 3: the policy with hospitalists or curb out of network specialists
Speaker 3: billing through in network facilities and so this will aid
Speaker 3: those specialists in wanting to join our networks, which will
Speaker 3: lower patient costs and whole facilities accountable for repeated non
Speaker 3: emergency use of out of network and so that will
Speaker 3: drive down healthcare costs personally. So you can't do that,
Speaker 3: Scott though, without thoughtful collaboration with our hospitals and our providers,
Speaker 3: right right, that's the key path to our affordability.
Speaker 2: Well, you have the collaboration, and I know there's price
Speaker 2: transparency tools out there and they're required, but the data,
Speaker 2: and maybe it's because it's new, few consumers use them effectively.
Speaker 2: Are they confusing? And you know what's driving that? Are
Speaker 2: more people adopting it or just simply they don't know.
Speaker 3: We're seeing adoption, least specifically with our Sydney app. We're
Speaker 3: seeing great adoption because because of the unaffordability, many members
Speaker 3: are wanting to understand their benefit options.
Speaker 2: I brought this up before and I would love your
Speaker 2: unvarnished point of view on this this. You know, I
Speaker 2: go to my do we go to our doctor. You
Speaker 2: look in there, Okay, I've got a doctor. Maybe he
Speaker 2: has a PA or a nurse or something like that.
Speaker 2: And then you have five five people who just handle
Speaker 2: coating and billing and insurance and medicare and medicaiding and
Speaker 2: all that stuff, and as we know, it drives costs up.
Speaker 2: I always use the parallel to you know, you bring
Speaker 2: your dog into a vet and you know, canines felines
Speaker 2: use some and sometimes the same medicine or overlapping menage,
Speaker 2: and you look at that and go, Okay, that's pretty
Speaker 2: affordable my dog, cat or whatever.
Speaker 1: It comes to me.
Speaker 2: There's paperwork, there's bills that come for the next six, seven,
Speaker 2: eight months, and you forget what they're for, and it's
Speaker 2: this whole mess. If we simply took the edict and
Speaker 2: made it an edict for employers in America, Listen, you're
Speaker 2: no longer in the business of providing health insurance. Can
Speaker 2: offer health insurance you got buy in the free market.
Speaker 2: Is that better for you guys? Is it better for
Speaker 2: the patient?
Speaker 3: I mean, I believe that the reason that we want
Speaker 3: to make sure people remain covered is because if it
Speaker 3: becomes unaffordable for individuals. In some cases, many people are
Speaker 3: very reliant on their employer to help subsidize their healthcare calls.
Speaker 3: And again, as I mentioned earlier, if unaffordable healthcare will
Speaker 3: become inaccessible health care. So it's important that they get
Speaker 3: the resources they need. And I think to your point
Speaker 3: on data, and I mean, how we need to become
Speaker 3: more efficient and effective with the way we work in healthcare.
Speaker 3: That's a job for all of us. And we're doing
Speaker 3: our part at Anton Blue Cross Blue Shield by adopting AI,
Speaker 3: by adopting new data technologies, and providing coordination with our
Speaker 3: provider partners so that we have access to the whole view,
Speaker 3: to the whole health view of you, Scott, so that
Speaker 3: we can see your health holistically and that we can
Speaker 3: help aid in keeping you healthier longer.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 2: But I guess the question is more about compliance and
Speaker 2: things like you You still have to obviously address compliance issues,
Speaker 2: but it seems there's a lot of things elements involved,
Speaker 2: particularly the government in our healthcare. Why can't I just
Speaker 2: buy a plan directly from you and like minded people
Speaker 2: do that. I think we'd save enough money in the
Speaker 2: long run to be able to take care of the
Speaker 2: indigen and the people who really need it. Looking ahead
Speaker 2: five years, what do you and it's just going to
Speaker 2: continue to get worse. I mean, we're going to start
Speaker 2: to see things level off or is it just simply
Speaker 2: a matter of demographics that I started with, where you're
Speaker 2: going to see baby boomers as they age out and
Speaker 2: eventually pass, we have a younger generation coming in replacing
Speaker 2: them as old folks, and so it goes. Is it
Speaker 2: simply just a numbers game that way, or is it
Speaker 2: going to level out in the next five or ten years.
Speaker 3: Well, my optimistic to use Scott is that we're going
Speaker 3: to work together the stakeholders. They appreciate how urgent this is.
Speaker 3: Individuals understand that they certainly can access individual plans, but
Speaker 3: many again are reliant on the benefits and the subsidies
Speaker 3: that they have in place today. So we've got to
Speaker 3: make sure. You know, it's a delicate issue, right, But
Speaker 3: what I would say as a society, and what I'm
Speaker 3: hoping that in the next few years that will come
Speaker 3: together as stakeholders, is making the healthy choice, the easy choice,
Speaker 3: and allowing individuals to have more control over their health
Speaker 3: and their health care costs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that doesn't mean prices are going on.
Speaker 2: That's the biggest concern, and you know, we're probably pretty
Speaker 2: bad about that ourselves, and you know, you led with
Speaker 2: and it's a good point. If we took better care
Speaker 2: of ourselves eight better, you know, exercise and all that stuff,
Speaker 2: then we need less health care. It makes it less
Speaker 2: expensive for everyone. But we don't do that. But it's
Speaker 2: not like we're alone. Other countries have the same problem.
Speaker 2: And yet here in America our health care costs are
Speaker 2: out of control. Administrative costs the US are substantially higher
Speaker 2: in other countries. What percentage of premium dollars goes to
Speaker 2: administration versus actual.
Speaker 3: Care, you know, that would be dependent upon the situation.
Speaker 3: But I'm not sure Scott, if you're aware that the
Speaker 3: majority of employers are self insured. So and specifically in
Speaker 3: the states. I'm in Indiana next to you, ninety percent
Speaker 3: of our employers are self insured. So what that means
Speaker 3: is they're paying directly for the cost of a procedure,
Speaker 3: and that there's a small admin fee that goes on that.
Speaker 3: And as you know, health plans are regulated and the
Speaker 3: cost that we can charge for that is regulated by
Speaker 3: our government.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that all factors into the cost as well,
Speaker 2: because the regulation adds a little bit more overhead in that.
Speaker 2: I guess that's the initial point. As it seems there's
Speaker 2: a lot a lot of hands in the cookie there.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of money to be had here, but
Speaker 2: at the end, consumers suffer and some people are not
Speaker 2: making the decision to go without healthcare, especially during these
Speaker 2: times where we talk about the ACA and all that
Speaker 2: being in jeopardy. Beth Kaizier, West Region President for Anthem
Speaker 2: Blue cross Bow Shield out of Indianapolis, Thanks again for
Speaker 2: the time, Beth, appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Scott, and I would encourage individuals
Speaker 3: that are interested in this topic to go to our website.
Speaker 3: It's www dot Anthem dot com. Forward slash Affordability in Ohio.
Speaker 3: Thank you Scott so much for the conversation.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Beth. And uh yeah, well Gutsia.
Speaker 2: It takes a lot to come on a see out
Speaker 2: of a healthcare company or at least a regional president. Anyways,
Speaker 2: the case may be is understand it wasn't that many
Speaker 2: years ago and you kind of didn't really have an
Speaker 2: opinion about it. Now, if you look at the hate
Speaker 2: index in America, that group is rising close to the
Speaker 2: damn time. We had a lot of people we hate on
Speaker 2: these days, but I can't think of a group, a
Speaker 2: private group, maybe more so than healthcare CEOs for Sure
Speaker 2: News is on the way in just minutes. A fine
Speaker 2: recap coming up of last night's vestivity in order to
Speaker 2: Kentucky Convention Center for Martographer Homeless Chisle Slow today because
Speaker 2: we were partying until about ten o'clock last night.
Speaker 1: Scott flown show seven hundred.
Speaker 2: There we go slonely seven hundred wolw on this Wednesday morning.
Speaker 2: Thank you were probably you've probably an here, I know what.
Speaker 2: I'm thanking you for it because you're sleeping if you're
Speaker 2: Marty Gruff for Homeless Kids, twenty twenty six last night
Speaker 2: at the Northern Kentucky Convention Center. But congratulations though, and
Speaker 2: thank you so much for your support on this, and
Speaker 2: that includes people who couldn't make it who still donated
Speaker 2: to the cause. And so we will sleep well tonight.
Speaker 2: And maybe you're sleeping well on unknowing that we're going
Speaker 2: to provide more than one hundred and fifty thousand meals
Speaker 2: this year for children in need and also support Bethany
Speaker 2: House Welcome House in Brighton Center. And last night we
Speaker 2: raised in excessive two hundred and fifty thousand bottles, which
Speaker 2: is an all time high, So it was fantastic We
Speaker 2: had a blast last night on behalf of myself, the King.
Speaker 2: Sheila Gray, my queen from Local twelve OO was great
Speaker 2: hanging with she she for a while, John John with
Speaker 2: Kiss one oh seven to one, and Sarah Alice from
Speaker 2: the Kid Chris shown of course a snort report she
Speaker 2: will not be here today, she's sleeping it off. And
Speaker 2: the man himself, Tom Brenneman, those two m seeing and
Speaker 2: we had an absolute fantastic time. The restaurants were amazing,
Speaker 2: the food was great, the drinks were great, and of
Speaker 2: course the most important thing raising money for all those charities.
Speaker 2: I will say that, and also thanks to my friends
Speaker 2: Melissa Reed and everyone in DV eight one of the
Speaker 2: best cover bands in Cincinnati. Melissa one of the greatest
Speaker 2: vocalists too, I think at Cincinnati as well. So great
Speaker 2: to see those guys and hang with those guys for
Speaker 2: a little bit briefly. And you know, two hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars, that's a lot of cash to raise
Speaker 2: in one night. The Joe Burrow Foundation, Jeff Ruby Foundation,
Speaker 2: of course, Mercedes Benz of Fort Mitchell and Don Pepperell
Speaker 2: over there doing a great job and supporting the mission
Speaker 2: as well raising just a ton of money. Obviously, I
Speaker 2: was watching briefly we had Local twelve was on. I
Speaker 2: caught on the corner and my eye the video from
Speaker 2: last night. And I have to apologize to the folks
Speaker 2: at the Northern Kentucky Convention Center who have the task
Speaker 2: of having to clean up because it started, as I
Speaker 2: think it was started as a senior prank and now
Speaker 2: it was just completely out of control. Years ago, when
Speaker 2: Mike McConnell was the the aforementioned the artist formerly known
Speaker 2: as Mike McConnell was the king of Marty Gras and
Speaker 2: then I took over for him. His bodies had come
Speaker 2: and throw bread. Closterman Baker's always there and they have,
Speaker 2: you know, bread like a bread stand, and so his
Speaker 2: body started throwing bread at him and judge because we're
Speaker 2: in this big rolling platform way up above and we're
Speaker 2: throwing beads out to the crowd the Marti Gras Court,
Speaker 2: and it was good natured fun, and we started talking
Speaker 2: about this on the show and every year now more
Speaker 2: and more people engage in throwing rolls at and.
Speaker 1: So there's this video on twelve.
Speaker 2: It's me and Sheila up there and three Bengal cheer
Speaker 2: a couple Bengal cheerleaders and John John and we are
Speaker 2: getting it. Just if you didn't know what it was,
Speaker 2: You're like, what, why are they ducking? What is going on?
Speaker 2: I think they having fun, but they look like they're
Speaker 2: under attack. And we are underttack by rolls from Closterman
Speaker 2: and people are just like firing rolls at us left
Speaker 2: and right, and we're trying to throw them back to
Speaker 2: the crowd and throw beads and it's complete to bauchery
Speaker 2: and mayhem. But now we have these pockets of I
Speaker 2: don't know in cells that are rising up in the crowd.
Speaker 2: For the bread is not just where the stand is.
Speaker 2: Now people are taking the bread and going to other
Speaker 2: parts of the convention center to the throw bread. So
Speaker 2: there'll be these pockets of you know, popping up of
Speaker 2: people throwing bread at us in the middle of the room.
Speaker 2: And it's funny as hell. Some guy, I think I
Speaker 2: got a hogy. I think I got like one of
Speaker 2: those sub I don't know where it came from. And
Speaker 2: now people are bringing their own bread. Apparently this was
Speaker 2: left over from a Super Bowl party. You know those
Speaker 2: giant subs that feed fifty like it was coming at
Speaker 2: us and it looked like the sun was getting blocked
Speaker 2: out at this point, like what is happening right now?
Speaker 2: So just part of the fun and mayhem of Marty Grausse.
Speaker 2: So thanks again two hundred and fifty K and we're
Speaker 2: gonna feed a lot of kids with that, So thanks
Speaker 2: so much for joining us. Always glad to be part
Speaker 2: of that wonderful event with the Northern Kentucky Restaurant Association.
Speaker 2: Everyone down there, Gordy Sneyder, Pat Kenala, everybody, all right,
Speaker 2: moving on, moving on. Saw the big headline today that
Speaker 2: apparently we're this close to striking a deal with Iran
Speaker 2: because we're talking in Geneva with Progress to try and
Speaker 2: go tell their nuclear energy and Iran and they may
Speaker 2: be back.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's the Middle East.
Speaker 2: So you hear this and you go okay, So in
Speaker 2: two weeks they'll wind up doing something. They'll blow it up.
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, Israel and God say, okay, we've
Speaker 2: got peace, do we really? Because you know the stuff's
Speaker 2: still going to continue to happen. It's just I look
Speaker 2: at it going okay, it's wishual thinking, but the reality
Speaker 2: is there'll be some sort of aggrievance, some sort of
Speaker 2: microaggression that they perceive on the part of the United
Speaker 2: States or vice versa, and we'll be back at it again.
Speaker 2: But had a little little brief piece and some hope.
Speaker 2: We need some hope these days, so we will take it.
Speaker 2: We will take it. There's a guy named Michael Sullivan
Speaker 2: arrested outside the Capitol eighteen years old. Parked a suv
Speaker 2: near the western of the Capitol exit of the b
Speaker 2: a shotgun and insteaded running toward the Capitol. He's we're
Speaker 2: in a tactical vest and gloves, kevlar, helmet, gas mask
Speaker 2: inside the suv, everything with an attempt to try and
Speaker 2: I don't know what he's going to do is try
Speaker 2: and take out people inside the capital. Of course, the
Speaker 2: good news is and may I don't know if the
Speaker 2: good news or not news, but it would have been
Speaker 2: more effective if Congress are actually working, Like, if you're
Speaker 2: going to do that, you may want to, I don't know,
Speaker 2: go online and do some research and find out if
Speaker 2: they're actually they're not saying I was wishing they would
Speaker 2: by any stretch. But you know, if you're going to
Speaker 2: go to prison for the rest of your life. I
Speaker 2: guess you know, at least there's some sort of perceived threat.
Speaker 2: But it's like, yeah, they're not working. They in addition
Speaker 2: to the recess, they also are they shut down government.
Speaker 2: So what actually has happened over there? It's like, wait
Speaker 2: a minute, I did that. I'm going to prison forever.
Speaker 2: And man, they weren't even that. Oh man, man, the
Speaker 2: times in which we live. I have you heard this story?
Speaker 2: So if you had kids or have kids that are
Speaker 2: in school, you know about a company called Life Touch Photography.
Speaker 2: And so every every beginning every school year in the fall,
Speaker 2: your kids, you know, you get the you go shopping.
Speaker 2: You're back to closed school. And then the best outfit
Speaker 2: from your back to closed shopping experience, of course, will
Speaker 2: be the one that your mom will tell you not
Speaker 2: to get dirty because you've got school pictures. You can
Speaker 2: wear this, but you need to say this is for school.
Speaker 2: When you have your school pictures, you gotta look nice
Speaker 2: for your school pictures. And you know, they give you
Speaker 2: the comb, you comb your hair, you look all nice,
Speaker 2: and of course they capture that moment it look like
Speaker 2: you just got maced or something like that. It's the
Speaker 2: stupid expressions on your face when you're a kid. But nonetheless,
Speaker 2: the life Touch photography is a big deal. It's a
Speaker 2: big money maker for everyone. So the Kentucky Educational Development
Speaker 2: Corporation is suspending their partnership with life Touch due to
Speaker 2: concerns over a tie to Jeffrey Epstein. So this is
Speaker 2: from the let me get the straight department. Okay, the
Speaker 2: CEO has a documented business relationship with Epstein, and it
Speaker 2: was in charge of Apollo when it bought Shutterfly, who
Speaker 2: owns Life Touch now in twenty nineteen. Life Touch says, well,
Speaker 2: no exact if there have ever had any contact with Epstein,
Speaker 2: and Apollo did not acquire shutter Fly until after Jeffrey
Speaker 2: Epstein died.
Speaker 1: So so you.
Speaker 2: Had this guy who was tied to the previous company,
Speaker 2: which was then bought out, and then that was sold
Speaker 2: package up and sold the Shutterfly. So we're like, we're
Speaker 2: two we're two child molesters away from this evening tying
Speaker 2: to the current company, and yet Kentucky's going, well, we
Speaker 2: got to question our business and largely probably because of
Speaker 2: backlash from parents. You know, you want to think that
Speaker 2: we're getting a little better allowing our kids to be
Speaker 2: a little bit more feral and you know, kind of
Speaker 2: plot their own direction to some degree.
Speaker 1: You know, you give them controls.
Speaker 2: I'm not suggesting the five year old should be, you know,
Speaker 2: out there doing whatever he wants. You know, you give
Speaker 2: him a give a limit, the list of selections, like, hey,
Speaker 2: I want to wear this, I want our Halloween cost
Speaker 2: him to school. Well you really can't, Well I can.
Speaker 2: I Well here's why, but I'll give you three outfits
Speaker 2: you can pick from. You pick, and it makes you
Speaker 2: feel like they have some control, right, And the older
Speaker 2: you get, the more autonomy they should.
Speaker 1: And then they want to serve.
Speaker 2: But now it's like you think, at this point, now
Speaker 2: we start going back the other way, but we're not.
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, did the current did this guy have
Speaker 2: any tie? Did Leon Black have does he have any
Speaker 2: bearing on what they're doing today? And the answer, of
Speaker 2: course is now. Now if you think it's like blood
Speaker 2: money or something like that, even that I'd questioned, going, well,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, the company was sold and was sold again,
Speaker 2: and so you are at least two transactions removed from
Speaker 2: this guy have anything to do with it, and it
Speaker 2: was the CEO anyway, and you know, you go through CEO,
Speaker 2: it's a change. They change, and if you did something wrong,
Speaker 2: you certainly deserve to be fired and go to prison
Speaker 2: and something as serious as this for sure, But I
Speaker 2: don't know what you're protecting your kid from.
Speaker 1: It's it's life touch.
Speaker 2: I could see if what was going on now a
Speaker 2: different story, but not just part of the overprotective society
Speaker 2: in which we live. It's kind of like a few
Speaker 2: weeks ago we had that it escapes me where it was,
Speaker 2: but locally where you had because of all the snow
Speaker 2: and ice, the roof collapse in the on a school
Speaker 2: gym and an elementary school gym, which is served your
Speaker 2: costs for concern. So they shut the school down for
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks and uh, it was just a
Speaker 2: gym roof, And like the rest of us, they had
Speaker 2: structural engineers go in and inspectors from the state and
Speaker 2: everything else going to look at the place and inspecting, like, Okay,
Speaker 2: we're good, we're gonna open it back up. And they
Speaker 2: had an open house and parents are showing up and saying, well,
Speaker 2: I'm not sending my kid to school because it's not safe.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, we're not sending them to you know,
Speaker 2: like back in the day, your mom and dad did that, going, wait,
Speaker 2: what happened? Yeah, the roof collapse in the gym? Oh okay,
Speaker 2: well we got to see what's good?
Speaker 1: All right? Can I go back to school?
Speaker 2: Well yeah, you just can't have gym, but you should
Speaker 2: go and learn stuff and also get the hell out
Speaker 2: of here.
Speaker 1: You're driving me crazy.
Speaker 2: I think it was just maybe a little I don't
Speaker 2: want to be the guy going, oh, it's so better
Speaker 2: back in the day, but something like that to me
Speaker 2: is like, all right, well, you've had all these people
Speaker 2: and there's a huge liability issue and they're not going
Speaker 2: to let not only teachers and the staff and but kids,
Speaker 2: especially if if it's unsafe. And yet even though you've
Speaker 2: had certified engineers structural engineers coming to go yeah, it's okay,
Speaker 2: it's just the gym.
Speaker 1: We got to rebuild it. Okay.
Speaker 2: Well, the rest of school's fine, right, yep, Now we're good.
Speaker 2: There's no more snow on the roof, and we inspected
Speaker 2: everything looks good. Okay, good enough. Yeah, but there's a
Speaker 2: chance that no, there's no chance.
Speaker 1: I mean, you guess you.
Speaker 2: Could have a media rite or a piece of ice
Speaker 2: off an airplane and fall through the roof. I suppose,
Speaker 2: but you know, really we've inspected it and anything about that.
Speaker 2: It's like, I'm not sending my kid to school anyway.
Speaker 2: Well you had inspectors there. You may send your kid
Speaker 2: to a school before that was never inspected. So there's
Speaker 2: probably the safest roof of any building in the state
Speaker 2: at this point. Considering how many people are inspecting the roof, Well,
Speaker 2: what if they're wrong, Well, they're probably not. I would
Speaker 2: err on the side of having that inspection. And maybe
Speaker 2: you have a kid go to a different school and
Speaker 2: you're like, well you go to school, Well they'd inspect
Speaker 2: our roof.
Speaker 1: That could fall down too. I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: But the shutterfly thing is that is absolutely fascinating to me.
Speaker 2: This is pretty good. I know, if you saw this
Speaker 2: or not. He was on a podcast and President Obama
Speaker 2: was to I know it was like like a little
Speaker 2: Q and a thing like a speed round thing, and
Speaker 2: he's answering questions about whether or not aliens were real,
Speaker 2: and he I don't know if it's a slip up
Speaker 2: or not, but you know, he said that, oh, they're real,
Speaker 2: and then he had to come back and walk it
Speaker 2: back and said, I I was joking, wanted to you know,
Speaker 2: I want to know the whereabouts of like if there's
Speaker 2: an underground bunker with aliens and they're keeping this from
Speaker 2: the president because I didn't know anything about it. And
Speaker 2: it was kind of funny too, and you know, it
Speaker 2: just feels that speculation about aliens and Area fifty one
Speaker 2: and conspiracy theories. And he said, yeah, they're real, but
Speaker 2: we don't have them here. We don't have them an
Speaker 2: Area fifty one. And he had to kind of walk
Speaker 2: those comments back a little bit, which just fuels a
Speaker 2: conspiracy theorist even more.
Speaker 1: It's kind of funny. I was, hey, I don't I
Speaker 1: always thought of that.
Speaker 2: I really think that there's some sort of extraterrestrial life
Speaker 2: out there. We just assume they're smarter than us, because
Speaker 2: that makes her a good story because they could come
Speaker 2: control us, because the other way around, it's like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, there there's life forms out there, but they're
Speaker 2: pretty dumb, right, pretty pretty stupid. It's like our dumbest
Speaker 2: criminals are still smarter than the extraterrestrial life out there.
Speaker 2: Oh okay. It was one of those guys yeah, all right,
Speaker 2: we're good. Like, you know, maybe they don't even have
Speaker 2: opposable thumbs. Yeah, I haven't even invented a crew ton
Speaker 2: or anything good like that. Yeah, spreadable cheese, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're good. It's the eating dirt.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Maybe there's I don't know if it's intelligent life, but
Speaker 2: developed life out there sure probably probably, But daddy that
Speaker 2: you know, there's a superior being out there and it's
Speaker 2: not us, Like, I don't know about that. But I
Speaker 2: was reading this, it's interesting what we know about Area
Speaker 2: fifty one now. And I was reading a following a
Speaker 2: book about that, and it's interesting because the first uf
Speaker 2: of the saucer, right back in the fifties, if it's
Speaker 2: all in the flying saucers, flying saucers were UFOs, and
Speaker 2: now they're called UFAs or UFDs.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: They changed the name every few years. And so the
Speaker 2: very first one they found it had crashed and there
Speaker 2: was evidence, Oh my god, this thing crashed, and you know,
Speaker 2: the FEDS came in and sealed the area off, and
Speaker 2: it fueled all this conspiracy later on, as it turned out,
Speaker 2: according to the story, is that obviously the scientists there
Speaker 2: took it apart in the desert and wanted to see
Speaker 2: what the hell it was because there was no visible
Speaker 2: signs of a way to propel the vehicle, you know,
Speaker 2: no exhaust is the equipment. And so anyway, they took
Speaker 2: this thing apart and they found on parts inside it
Speaker 2: things written in the cyrillic alphabet, and the cyrillic alphabet,
Speaker 2: of course is Russian. Now think about it, when this
Speaker 2: happens nineteen fifties, we're coming out of World War Two.
Speaker 2: We instantly went from World War to the Cold War.
Speaker 2: We're battling the Russians, Russians Vus, atomic superpowers, duck and cover.
Speaker 2: Everyone's paranoid thinking the bomb's going to go off, and
Speaker 2: now the Russians are flying saucers, which we looked at
Speaker 2: and want how the hell they're doing this, and they're
Speaker 2: doing it on our airspace, and so huge national security concern.
Speaker 2: Now you can't come out and say that. And the
Speaker 2: speculation was of course by someone said, well, they're like
Speaker 2: little alien men, or they're alien. Maybe it's an alien,
Speaker 2: it's something from outer space. And because of the time,
Speaker 2: you know, that was a whole thing that you know,
Speaker 2: we're going with fifties, you know, it's a war of
Speaker 2: the Cold War. But also, you know, we're involved in
Speaker 2: the space race. They're launching spot nicking things, and so
Speaker 2: all that ties together. It's like, well, maybe it's an
Speaker 2: alien life form. And so the government said, you know what,
Speaker 2: that mistruth, that narrative is good for us because that
Speaker 2: gives us cover for what we're doing out there in
Speaker 2: our space program. And so you saw things develop like
Speaker 2: the U two spyplane was actually which we flew over
Speaker 2: the Soviet un over to Russia, was developed out in
Speaker 2: the desert, and that's where they tested these things, and
Speaker 2: they'd get reports of these mysterious objects flying really high
Speaker 2: and glowing lights, and the B two stealth bomber, same thing.
Speaker 1: That's where they tested this thing.
Speaker 2: And people get reports of well, mysterious objects that were
Speaker 2: defying gravity plant and largely it was these experimental aircraft
Speaker 2: that they were working on, some of them man some
Speaker 2: of them unmanned, and they just let people run with it,
Speaker 2: going okay, well we had a sighting, Yeah it's probably
Speaker 2: an alien because we did not want to expose the
Speaker 2: truth of our space program. Pretty cool, I think, and
Speaker 2: it you know, you think about it fits together and
Speaker 2: It's also part of Ockham's razor. Rockham's razor basically is like,
Speaker 2: generally the easiest story is the true story rather than
Speaker 2: going aliens and everything. I was like, yeah, we're trying
Speaker 2: to protect our national interests and develop these things because
Speaker 2: we're in a race with the with the Russians. Still
Speaker 2: don't know what's inside that flying sauc where I was flying,
Speaker 2: but it might and I've been fueled or powered. Maybe
Speaker 2: it was launch from an airplane or something. Who knows.
Speaker 2: But to today, you know, we think there's aliens out there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I think there's intelligent life out there. I just
Speaker 2: don't know if they're smarter than we are. At this point,
Speaker 2: we've been trying to communicate with them forever based on
Speaker 2: this premise that they're out there, and we've got radio
Speaker 2: telescopes and everything else, still try sending signals and picking
Speaker 2: signals up and from distant galaxies and it's all fascinating stuff.
Speaker 1: And boy, it's kind of funny.
Speaker 2: It's like, man, this thing was was sort of like
Speaker 2: a I don't know, kind of like we let this
Speaker 2: mistruth go and let people believe it, and now it's
Speaker 2: this whole inn we actually now the sam government's actually
Speaker 2: spending what million, tens of millions of dollars on a radio,
Speaker 2: telescopes and everything else, not necessarily all to you know,
Speaker 2: make contact with alien life forms. But it's all based
Speaker 2: on that premise. That's kind of it's got a funny
Speaker 2: use of money. Like we're not gonna we're not gonna
Speaker 2: blow up the bed here. We got a pretty big
Speaker 2: it gotten so big now you're just like, we can't
Speaker 2: really give them the truth because they're gonna be really
Speaker 2: mad at us now because we spend all this money
Speaker 2: with anti alien technology.
Speaker 1: For God's sake, that's how the world works.
Speaker 2: I suppose we've got news on the way in just
Speaker 2: about six minutes here on the Big One, seven hundred
Speaker 2: W LW. Bill, this is interesting. Bill Henson is his
Speaker 2: name is from Manhattan. Institude's there think tank. But it
Speaker 2: did come up with a new way to measure return
Speaker 2: on investment for public education and the astomic part about
Speaker 2: this whole thing. And they're based on New York and
Speaker 2: so I think, you know, you hear that and you go, oh,
Speaker 2: it's New York.
Speaker 1: I don't really care. I live in Ohio, living Kentucky,
Speaker 1: live in the Danna. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But the truth the formula still works. It developed something
Speaker 2: called EROI, and that is a new return on investment
Speaker 2: educational return on investment, because you figure in is how
Speaker 2: much the average student costs, the averageer people spending is,
Speaker 2: and then how many students you have in the district,
Speaker 2: and then how many kids graduate or go on to
Speaker 2: college or go on And so is it fair to
Speaker 2: include in the per people spending the number of kids
Speaker 2: who don't graduate? And the answer be well, yeah, you
Speaker 2: need to do that. It's not just so how much
Speaker 2: does that average diploma cost a taxpayer? And well it
Speaker 2: certainly fuel for people to go, hey we got to
Speaker 2: you know, go do more private schools or homeschooling. Okay, fine,
Speaker 2: But at the same time I look at it going, yeah,
Speaker 2: is this really an efficient use of money?
Speaker 1: Can we do better? And I think we can and
Speaker 1: have to do with AI.
Speaker 2: We'll get into that right after a news update on
Speaker 2: the Scott's Loan Show seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 5: Do you want to be an American idiot?
Speaker 2: Let's go Scott's Loan Show, seven hundred WLW. You know
Speaker 2: how much we spend on the military, and often I
Speaker 2: always spend seven eight times more than the next twenty
Speaker 2: nations gone by whatever it is. And we do spend
Speaker 2: a lot on the military, and how much is enough?
Speaker 2: That number pals in comparison to the amount of money
Speaker 2: we spend in this country on K through twelve education.
Speaker 2: We spend more on K through twelve education than we
Speaker 2: do national efense. That is an astounding high number, and
Speaker 2: the results of that spend are eye opening, especially in
Speaker 2: light of a new way to look at how much
Speaker 2: bang we get for the buck.
Speaker 1: It is about ROA.
Speaker 2: Don't let anyone tell you any difference like well, these
Speaker 2: are about kids in their future and it's more than
Speaker 2: just you know, getting a job and being productive citizens.
Speaker 2: It's part of it. All feels good, it's all the fields.
Speaker 2: But we want to know what the ROI is are
Speaker 2: what's the return of our investment?
Speaker 1: Here?
Speaker 2: Are we getting the maximum we can for our dollar?
Speaker 2: And that's not only fair to ask as taxpayers, but
Speaker 2: more so as parents and grandparents. And the new metrics
Speaker 2: that we're using are downright infuriating. William Henson is here.
Speaker 2: Bill is with Manhattan Institute and primarily talks about, you know,
Speaker 2: what's going on in New York public school system. But
Speaker 2: I think it's a good illustration because this is true
Speaker 2: everywhere else else.
Speaker 1: Bill, Welcome to the show. How are you.
Speaker 4: I'm well, Scott, thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, So this ree you. You did this
Speaker 2: with new and it's not New Day. But it's called
Speaker 2: e ROI Educational turn on Investment. So it's a way
Speaker 2: to calculate per pupil spending versus academic outcomes. We're talking
Speaker 2: graduation rates, college completion to says what that ROI is,
Speaker 2: what the bang for the buck is, what it's educational values?
Speaker 1: How do you formulate that?
Speaker 4: So it's relatively straightforward, and getting the lot of the
Speaker 4: information was a bit more of a challenge. Yeah, but
Speaker 4: most school districts, whether they be in Cincinnati, Kentucky, or
Speaker 4: New York, California, et cetera, you can get access to
Speaker 4: how much those school districts spend per student. Okay, although
Speaker 4: even there it's a little bit complicated because they'll publish
Speaker 4: their direct operating costs not necessarily and I don't want
Speaker 4: to get too much in the leads here, but you
Speaker 4: know they're indirect cost capital expenditures, pensions and the like,
Speaker 4: and then you have enrollment and it's pretty simple. Okay,
Speaker 4: what's you know, what's the total spending divided by the
Speaker 4: number of kids in the system that gives are your
Speaker 4: per pupil spending. What that doesn't do, though, is tell you, well,
Speaker 4: what am I getting, like you, like you said in
Speaker 4: the introduction, what am I getting for that money? Whether
Speaker 4: it be as a parent, student, taxpayer, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a fair question.
Speaker 2: And I looked at the numbers for Cincinnati a larger
Speaker 2: school listening area bill, Cincinnati Public and so the cost
Speaker 2: to educate a kid, and it's right now, it's about
Speaker 2: our pupil's per pupils about nineteen thousand dollars A little
Speaker 2: some studies say more, a little more, a little low,
Speaker 2: but we'll say nineteen grand over thirteen years, okay, through twelve.
Speaker 2: That's almost too. That's almost a quarter million dollars a kid. Now,
Speaker 2: the other element there is what about kids who don't graduate?
Speaker 2: And I think that's something that this this formula bakes in.
Speaker 2: It is like, okay, great, but are they're they're graduating?
Speaker 2: But what about the roughly fourteen fifty percent kids who
Speaker 2: don't That should be factored in the equation as well.
Speaker 4: So if you so, you know, just staying with you know, Cincinnati,
Speaker 4: and they round numbers twenty, you know, quarter million dollars
Speaker 4: to educate one student over the course of his or
Speaker 4: her primary and secondary.
Speaker 6: Years.
Speaker 4: But if only ten percent or twenty percent or thirty
Speaker 4: percent of those kids ultimately graduate from college, ont's just
Speaker 4: assume from the moment that's the ultimate objective. That could
Speaker 4: be a whole another conversation whether that's.
Speaker 6: The right path for everybody, sure, but.
Speaker 4: Assuming that's you know, that's your goal, that's your objective,
Speaker 4: and you say, okay, well, if it's twenty percent of
Speaker 4: ultimately graduate from college, that's one fifth. So my cost,
Speaker 4: Cincinnati's cost in this hypothetical example is actually five times
Speaker 4: a quarter of a million or what would that be?
Speaker 4: A million and a quarter a million, two hundred and
Speaker 4: fifty thousand to graduate one young person ultimately from college.
Speaker 4: And that's what you got to ask the question, am
Speaker 4: I getting the bank for the buck? As you said,
Speaker 4: am I, am I.
Speaker 2: That is a you know, in New York City's seven
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars today's dollars, and of course you know
Speaker 2: you don't. It's hard to factor inflation and matriculation moving
Speaker 2: from district to district. But it's and it's a rough number,
Speaker 2: but I think it's important too. It's like, if we're
Speaker 2: failing to educate these kids. I don't think that's solely
Speaker 2: back on the school system, quite honestly. I think there
Speaker 2: are multipleitude, multitude of factors as why an urban area.
Speaker 2: I mean, for example, I know you taught a very
Speaker 2: prestigious private school, which is the best of the best,
Speaker 2: and of course you're going to have higher graduation attendance
Speaker 2: because you know, parents.
Speaker 1: Are paying a lot of them.
Speaker 4: I think, like you said, is procedure, but in a
Speaker 4: different way, right, it exclusively serves low income kids. If you,
Speaker 4: if your family, God bless them, makes above a certain
Speaker 4: amount of money and you can afford another private school,
Speaker 4: we will. How should I say, invite you to take me?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 2: No, I I understand that nuance, And that's true a
Speaker 2: lot of areas as well. You're crystal ray and could
Speaker 2: not right right, Yeah, But public schools also have you,
Speaker 2: they have to take they have to take spec special
Speaker 2: education students of life too, So there's I think there's
Speaker 2: some nuances there. There's you know, the absent tee chronic
Speaker 2: apps and tee rates, kids who are under house underfed.
Speaker 2: You know that's that's certainly those are certainly mitigating factors
Speaker 2: for this whole thing. But you know, I was, I
Speaker 2: was speculating about this the other day in that you know,
Speaker 2: the whole educational system itself, we miss so many kids.
Speaker 2: I was one of those kids because I'm more of
Speaker 2: a tactile learner. You know, you put a you put
Speaker 2: numbers in front of me, and I'm confused. Used, But
Speaker 2: you put a tape measure in front of me or something,
Speaker 2: I can say, Okay, what's the point of this and
Speaker 2: apply more of an applied learner in that regard. And
Speaker 2: so many kids are and we I think we're starting
Speaker 2: to learn more about admiss it. But my point is,
Speaker 2: you know, today you hear about kids being disengaged in
Speaker 2: school and not paying attention to kids. Maybe we're not
Speaker 2: teaching to their level and maybe, you know, with the
Speaker 2: distractions of phones and social media in AI, now it
Speaker 2: seems like, I don't know, do we even need THEE
Speaker 2: or should the public school model change? In a sense,
Speaker 2: it's like, why aren't we teaching kids on their level?
Speaker 2: AI can learn how to teach to each individual student,
Speaker 2: They'll learn more, will retain better, they'll be better students,
Speaker 2: and ultimately be more productive and successful in life. Maybe
Speaker 2: the way to do this is using AI as the
Speaker 2: teacher as opposed to a well, actual human teacher.
Speaker 4: Well, and there are some school models that are pursuing
Speaker 4: that where it's it might be too strong to say
Speaker 4: AI driven, but certainly AI I supported, And then you
Speaker 4: and m they'll dedicate or ear mark maybe two three
Speaker 4: hours of the education of the school day to sort
Speaker 4: of traditional curriculum, et cetera, utilizing AI to be hopefully
Speaker 4: that much more efficient, that much more effective, et cetera,
Speaker 4: and then allocating the rest of the normal school day
Speaker 4: to other programs, services, et cetera. That would be in
Speaker 4: a perfect world of address. You know, kids, the way
Speaker 4: you describe yourself as a different kind of learner or
Speaker 4: a different interests, et cetera. So I think there's a tremendous,
Speaker 4: tremendous opportunity there. And I think, you know, over the
Speaker 4: course of the next several years, and it probably won't
Speaker 4: even be that long, you're you're going to see more
Speaker 4: of those type of sort of models and initiatives you
Speaker 4: know pop up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a way to explore us.
Speaker 2: Now, of course, this is a total threat to the
Speaker 2: ecosystem of public education, in particular that well wait a minute, now,
Speaker 2: if we use AI, we need future teach we need
Speaker 2: less teachers. That is a threat to unions. We certainly
Speaker 2: need to help a lot less administrators, which is a
Speaker 2: threat to the bureaucratic class. It's also a threat to
Speaker 2: the brick and mortar of the schools that we continue
Speaker 2: to fund the buildings themselves. Because if this is all
Speaker 2: a digital enterprise and you can teach kids on their
Speaker 2: own level, to their own means using AI, all of
Speaker 2: that stuff is now in jeopardy. That's a threat to
Speaker 2: that's a threat to the American way of life in itself.
Speaker 4: Bill, Yeah, And I think you can even extend that
Speaker 4: line of thinking beyond just the implications of AI, but
Speaker 4: to anything that represents a different model, a different way
Speaker 4: of doing things from the traditional public school model, where
Speaker 4: you know where where the unions and entrench bureaucracy are
Speaker 4: nervous at best, if not to downright resistant to any
Speaker 4: kind of of change. And that's what we see here
Speaker 4: in New York. And you know the purpose of my
Speaker 4: study was sort of twofold, and we touched on. The
Speaker 4: first bar was to provide families, taxpayer, policymakers, et cetera,
Speaker 4: with the tool so it could really see, all right,
Speaker 4: what am I getting for this huge investment, you know,
Speaker 4: over a trillion or about a trillion dollars nationally. And
Speaker 4: then secondly is to then use that tool to evaluate
Speaker 4: a few different educational alternatives. And you know, I use
Speaker 4: New York because that's where I am. In New York
Speaker 4: is sort of the tip of the spear in the
Speaker 4: sense that they are the most expensive public school system
Speaker 4: in the country. And you see that, well, these there
Speaker 4: is one, you know, there is this alternative out there
Speaker 4: called this Christal Ray model. Educates low income kids and
Speaker 4: ninety nine percent kids of color, most of them come
Speaker 4: from uh, you know, single parent households, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4: And yet for every one student out of the New
Speaker 4: York City public school system that ultimately graduates from college
Speaker 4: for the same amount of money, Christo Ray model graduated
Speaker 4: or produced nine kids from college.
Speaker 1: What's what drives that? What do you think drives that?
Speaker 4: Oh, there's a there's a you know, a host of factors.
Speaker 4: Scott I'll say the ones I you know what, folks
Speaker 4: who work and teach in in In this case, it's
Speaker 4: a Catholic school model lowled You know, approximately half if
Speaker 4: not more of the kids are non Catholic. They don't
Speaker 4: get paid as much as public school teachers. So that's
Speaker 4: not necessarily a good thing in some ways, especially if
Speaker 4: you're that particular teacher or staff member, But in other ways,
Speaker 4: it sends a pretty powerful message to the leadership of
Speaker 4: the school, the board, etc. That those staff members, those teachers,
Speaker 4: they really want to be there, they want to teach,
Speaker 4: They're willing to make that sacrifice so that they can
Speaker 4: help these young people ultimately realize their full potential. And
Speaker 4: that whether it comes through overtly or more subtly, that
Speaker 4: sends a very very powerful message to the students themselves,
Speaker 4: to their families, to the rest of the community, and
Speaker 4: that once you get young people motivated and believing in themselves,
Speaker 4: that goes a long long way to them being able
Speaker 4: to actually grow and achieve and accomplish.
Speaker 5: What they want.
Speaker 4: So culture is a big part of it, you know,
Speaker 4: just just one part of it.
Speaker 1: Well, it also isn't it.
Speaker 2: Also the kids are coming there because their parents, regardless
Speaker 2: of income or socioeconomic level, bill they want their kids
Speaker 2: to succeed in school, and so they have a vestigations
Speaker 2: to making sure the kids shows up. They go to
Speaker 2: the parent teacher beings. I mean, it probably takes a
Speaker 2: very alert and education oriented parent because that's who's going
Speaker 2: to go to a school like this, Whereas you may
Speaker 2: have kids that come from troubled homes and parents that
Speaker 2: simply don't see the value in education.
Speaker 1: I think that's a distinction.
Speaker 2: But you know, to your point, yeah, And the other
Speaker 2: point too is you know, this is about college, and
Speaker 2: I does it factor in those who are going to
Speaker 2: the skilled trades or military service or just going directly
Speaker 2: the workforce.
Speaker 4: Well, the Crystal Ray model, which is national over forty
Speaker 4: Chrystal Ray schools around the country, including in Cincinnati to
Speaker 4: others in Ohio, has been a since its beginning, which
Speaker 4: was in the mid to late nineties. First Chicago has
Speaker 4: been a college, college access, college success driven model. Now
Speaker 4: as we go forward in the world, that's changing pretty
Speaker 4: darn rapidly for some of the reasons we've touched on
Speaker 4: here and others. Does that evolve over time possibly, but
Speaker 4: also remember it's a it's a large network, but it's
Speaker 4: still a niche player. There's maybe, you know, in the
Speaker 4: grand scheme of things, you know, thirteen thousand students probably
Speaker 4: double maybe by now more than double that, thirty thousand alumni,
Speaker 4: et cetera. So when you look at it relative to
Speaker 4: all you know, high school population and the country, it's
Speaker 4: it's still a small player. But again, you know, so
Speaker 4: its model is is is a is a college driven one.
Speaker 4: And I think, you know, going back to its founding
Speaker 4: and and and in the decades since you know, the
Speaker 4: ethos has meant, hey, there's these young people by virtue
Speaker 4: of their economic circumstances and others should not be denied
Speaker 4: the same the same opportunity as they're more affluent peers have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and unfortunately we have this hierarchy of the system
Speaker 2: in place, and anything that's been in trench for a while,
Speaker 2: they're going to protect their own And of course you're
Speaker 2: looking at this model and say, wow, we should replicate
Speaker 2: this is a threat to their to their existence the
Speaker 2: way they've always done things, and saving to the cries
Speaker 2: you don't care about education and you want to destroy
Speaker 2: public schools, that's not it. It's if you look at
Speaker 2: it as a tax payer, you want and none all
Speaker 2: that for our future. We need young people to be
Speaker 2: successful and well led you because it's in our best
Speaker 2: interests as we get older too it our kids need
Speaker 2: to because they're the ones that are going to be
Speaker 2: funding our lifestyles in the future. It's Bill Henson, he's
Speaker 2: at Manhattan Institute joining the show this morning about how
Speaker 2: we calculate the metrics or what success looks like in
Speaker 2: public schools and when we spend more on public education,
Speaker 2: then we do self to our defense system for example,
Speaker 2: and you see the results our defense gets us versus
Speaker 2: what education does or like is this money well spent
Speaker 2: and we should be kicking the tires on what that
Speaker 2: ROI looks like.
Speaker 1: Bill, all the best, Thanks for jumping on this.
Speaker 4: Morning, my pleasure, Scott, thanks so much for having.
Speaker 1: Me take care.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at some point it breaks right as we look
Speaker 2: at AI and go, well, if kids aren't engaged in
Speaker 2: their phone more than in the classroom, because that's the model,
Speaker 2: that's the formula, it's the algorithm. Or right now in
Speaker 2: Washington they're fighting with well Facebook and other social media platforms,
Speaker 2: TikTok and everything else about kids being engaged all the time.
Speaker 2: It's become addictive. How do we take that formula, how
Speaker 2: do we take that algorithm and just simply using AI
Speaker 2: making an educational model the way to teach kids to
Speaker 2: make them addicted to learning. It seems like a great opportunity,
Speaker 2: but it threatens the hierarchy I was just talking about,
Speaker 2: and no one wants that, from the administrative class, to
Speaker 2: the teachers, unions, to hell, the people who take care
Speaker 2: of the buildings, the brick and mortars. Scott's Loan Show
Speaker 2: with news on the way in five minutes. Here Julie
Speaker 2: on the job, next seven hundred WLW program.
Speaker 1: Helping you put the big P in profession. Here's our career,
Speaker 1: Sir Julie Balki.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm thinking we ought to bring that back, that
Speaker 2: work whistle at the end of the day, and now
Speaker 2: were that that that horn that the shift is over.
Speaker 2: Of course you're not going to be going off all
Speaker 2: the time because everyone leaves at different times. But bring
Speaker 2: that up with that work whistle back, Julie, how are you?
Speaker 7: I'm good, but I think why stop with the whistle
Speaker 7: at the end of the day. Let's do a bell
Speaker 7: for lunch and morning and let's just keep.
Speaker 4: Selling all day.
Speaker 2: You're going to do the uh that like I don't
Speaker 2: know if they still do it or not, but like
Speaker 2: Japanese factory workers back in the day where they do
Speaker 2: their calisthetics, the aerobics before before the work they started,
Speaker 2: nev's out there.
Speaker 7: The Japanese manufaction principles, like all that stuff. In the morning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you get up and instead of having coffee
Speaker 2: out there working out. So here's the question for you listening,
Speaker 2: is do you prefer money or do you prefer time?
Speaker 2: Uninterrupted time off correlates with higher job satisfaction, better relationships
Speaker 2: with your coworkers, and you're more engaged. Therefore, lower turnout
Speaker 2: time beats money.
Speaker 7: Does that surprise you, Julie, Well, I think we're gonna
Speaker 7: put a caveat there. First of all, I'm not sure
Speaker 7: why this surprises anyone. Everything that this study said, well da,
Speaker 7: I mean, so, I think what's what's tricky here is
Speaker 7: this is a either or It really depends on your situation.
Speaker 7: So let's say that salary is not a concern for you,
Speaker 7: and yes, there are plenty of people who aren't working.
Speaker 7: The salary is not the most important part of the job,
Speaker 7: or they're not the primary red winner, or they've got
Speaker 7: good savings and other things are more important for people
Speaker 7: like that. Yes, they would prefer to have more time
Speaker 7: off than they would a bonus in many cases because
Speaker 7: it gives them chances to do things that they want
Speaker 7: to do outside of work. And so I think that
Speaker 7: the lesson here is, and I've said it over and
Speaker 7: over and over again, is one size does not fit all.
Speaker 7: And until you understand what motivates your folks, and you
Speaker 7: have those conversations and you show and you really start
Speaker 7: getting down to what can we offer that maybe does
Speaker 7: resemble a little bit of cafeteria style benefits they used
Speaker 7: to have, where you know, you get certain number of
Speaker 7: credits or instead of this, uh, you know, thousand dollars
Speaker 7: bonus or whatever, we're going to offer you two days
Speaker 7: off instead and give people that choice. Instead of saying
Speaker 7: everybody gets X number of days off where everybody gets
Speaker 7: this bonus. You've got to offer what people value. And
Speaker 7: just because you, as a leader might value money and
Speaker 7: believe your people value money, their studies and studies upon
Speaker 7: studies that go back decades to show that leaders believe
Speaker 7: that people value salary more than they do. But that's
Speaker 7: not to say they don't want to be paid fairly,
Speaker 7: but it's the other things, recognition that I have a
Speaker 7: personal life, there's other things I enjoy doing, that I
Speaker 7: do have interest outside of work that matter to me,
Speaker 7: and that you're not going to go you're not going
Speaker 7: to bother me and I'm on vacation. I was talking
Speaker 7: to somebody the other day, yep, who worked for, you know,
Speaker 7: a big organization, and he said, this guy called one
Speaker 7: of our staff members on she was at a wedding
Speaker 7: out of state, and they asked her to come back
Speaker 7: because he needed her. And it wasn't even anything that
Speaker 7: important that it was just this person who was used
Speaker 7: to saying when I jump you out to say how high?
Speaker 7: And that's an extreme example, but some variation of that
Speaker 7: is not uncommon.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that the way they did this study, So
Speaker 2: the study that they did, Julie Bokie, if I'm paid
Speaker 2: vacation times make employees feel more quote unquote human than
Speaker 2: cash bonuses.
Speaker 1: And the key.
Speaker 2: Drivers just the time away. It's like a psychological boundary
Speaker 2: work in personal life. So they measured this out and
Speaker 2: there's like it's a very small gap and it's a
Speaker 2: seven point scale.
Speaker 1: It's kind of weird.
Speaker 2: But they said, every single text from a boss during
Speaker 2: your vacation drops that feeling human score so much it
Speaker 2: nearly wipes out the benefit of taking that vacation the
Speaker 2: first it's just by getting a few texts over the
Speaker 2: course of your vacation.
Speaker 7: Oh, absolutely, it triggers for this.
Speaker 4: What am I gonna thing?
Speaker 7: I've got to get got trying to relax. I've got
Speaker 7: to put my head back into work. And if you
Speaker 7: own a company or you're the CEO and you want
Speaker 7: choose to live your life like that, great, but don't
Speaker 7: assume that everybody else that everybody else is going to
Speaker 7: do that as well. So if you're really trying to relax,
Speaker 7: and part of this comes from as a leader, establishing
Speaker 7: a culture that doesn't contact people on you know, on
Speaker 7: their vacation, that doesn't you know, that says we're going
Speaker 7: to have somebody else take care of this, because every
Speaker 7: time you get dragged back to what's going on at work,
Speaker 7: the messenger sending is I don't care about you other
Speaker 7: than what you can do for me, So do this
Speaker 7: for me, please.
Speaker 2: How do you work with someone or for someone who
Speaker 2: values work more than time, because there are so many
Speaker 2: people in the world that their entire existence are entire
Speaker 2: life is about what they do for a living, and
Speaker 2: their whole cost for getting up in the morning is
Speaker 2: to do that. Now, you know, there's also people going, well,
Speaker 2: it's I loved I like my job, I like what
Speaker 2: I do, I like the money, but it's not my
Speaker 2: whole life. I work so I can have other things
Speaker 2: in my life. I don't work just for the pure
Speaker 2: joy of working. And that's and that kind of attitude
Speaker 2: is around that is that like the person who puts
Speaker 2: work above everything else in society, And it's starting to change.
Speaker 2: But that person is is more revered and more dedicated
Speaker 2: than someone who doesn't that. Fortunately, I think that model
Speaker 2: is starting to change, isn't it, And has been changing
Speaker 2: for a while for sure.
Speaker 7: For sure, I had a client who was in my
Speaker 7: age range, and he interviewed with a CEO, and the
Speaker 7: CEO was asking a couple of questions for his family,
Speaker 7: and then the CEO said, I'm never just I'm met.
Speaker 7: This is the only time I'm going to ask you
Speaker 7: about your family. I expect you to put work first
Speaker 7: in family seconds, and he took himself out of contention
Speaker 7: for the job. That moment, Wow, I said, that is
Speaker 7: not going to work for me.
Speaker 5: And so.
Speaker 7: When you weren't interviewing for a job, it's very fair
Speaker 7: to say, Now, tell me about what it's.
Speaker 4: Like to work here, Tell me about the culture.
Speaker 7: Talk to as many people as you can who work
Speaker 7: there and understand is this the type of place that
Speaker 7: expects you to be on call twenty four to seven,
Speaker 7: or or is a place that really values your off time?
Speaker 7: And I know people Flany that went on vacation purposely
Speaker 7: to places where they had no self service. Now this
Speaker 7: was years ago before self service was anywhere, like a
Speaker 7: crucis only so that they could not be contacted by
Speaker 7: the company. That is crazy. So I think part of
Speaker 7: this is setting expectations. You say something like I'm going
Speaker 7: to be off enjoying my family for a week. I
Speaker 7: will have very limited access. If there is I will
Speaker 7: check my email twice a week. If there's something urgent,
Speaker 7: please contact this person. But we kind of do it
Speaker 7: to ourselves. I'm not available, they will decide they don't
Speaker 7: need me, and then I'll be first on the layoff list.
Speaker 7: And you can't walking that fine line.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. I think there's another element to
Speaker 2: this whole thing too. By the way, it's Julie Balki
Speaker 2: our career, Sirpa, it's Julie on the job every Wednesday
Speaker 2: morning on the Scott Slan show her seven hundred wylw
Speaker 2: that a new study fund that paid vacation time makes
Speaker 2: employees feel more human than cash bonuses and makes them
Speaker 2: seen as individuals' lives beyond work. And it's that paro.
Speaker 2: It's all changing now, right, So people prefer time over money.
Speaker 2: I think there's another If you look at this almost
Speaker 2: like a graph, you have the time side on you know,
Speaker 2: the one access is time, the other access is money.
Speaker 1: But I will ask I'd offer a third.
Speaker 2: One in there, and that would be age because that
Speaker 2: age line would intersect where you know when your first start.
Speaker 2: Now you have any money, you're working, You maybe have
Speaker 2: a degree or you get your training, whatever it might be,
Speaker 2: and you're ready to take on the world, and you're
Speaker 2: ready to work ob scene hours and put your nose
Speaker 2: to the grindstone because you really don't have anything else
Speaker 2: going on in your life. Maybe you're dating, you're not
Speaker 2: a serious relationship, but as you age and and everyone's different,
Speaker 2: but typically you age, you start to value relationships. Maybe
Speaker 2: you meet that special someone who will to start a family,
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, that age line starts interacting
Speaker 2: where time is more important than money. And it's different
Speaker 2: for everyone, but I think that's a third factor here.
Speaker 7: Absolutely, your values and priorities change as you age. There
Speaker 7: are certainly young people now it's flipped on a pad
Speaker 7: a little bit, that are not that focused on working career,
Speaker 7: and that's really frustrating to older generations because we're used
Speaker 7: to the model you just laid out. Be super focused early,
Speaker 7: kind of kill a little bit later on, and they're saying,
Speaker 7: maybe I want to chill now, maybe I want to
Speaker 7: chill forever, or maybe I'll get serious about my career
Speaker 7: in another few years. And so we have to recognize
Speaker 7: that each person brings a different, different life experience. And
Speaker 7: I'm not saying you don't expect great performance from your people.
Speaker 7: You absolutely do, and if they're not performing, that's a
Speaker 7: whole other conversation. So don't take this to mean that
Speaker 7: I think everybody ought to be able to lobby other
Speaker 7: away through the day, But you do have to recognize
Speaker 7: that each individual that it is never going back to
Speaker 7: the way it was yep, And that each individuals in
Speaker 7: your company has a life you know nothing about and
Speaker 7: you don't have to understand it, and you don't have
Speaker 7: to get into it, okay, and you don't have to agree,
Speaker 7: you just have to recognize it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about the rto component return? We live in
Speaker 2: a moment Return office is a thing now, but we
Speaker 2: live in a moment where remote and hybrid work have
Speaker 2: blurred that line between work and personal life. Does that
Speaker 2: context may vacation time more or less valuable?
Speaker 7: Well, it depends if you so. I know some young,
Speaker 7: younger people who have work for companies that are very,
Speaker 7: very open and flexible with just get your work done,
Speaker 7: big national companies, get your work done and you're fine,
Speaker 7: We don't you know, take as much time as you need,
Speaker 7: but get your work done. And they are so loyal
Speaker 7: to those organizations and they are so appreciative of the
Speaker 7: fact that nobody's bringing down their neck that I know
Speaker 7: for sure they work harder because of that, and they
Speaker 7: don't necessarily need as much one hundred percent away from
Speaker 7: work vacation time because they haven't had to have their
Speaker 7: nose to the grindstone twenty four to seven to get
Speaker 7: those two weeks up. So it's finding that right mix
Speaker 7: for you and organizations that have that type of a
Speaker 7: framework and realize that they've hired adults. Until I've hired
Speaker 7: you as an adult, I expect to get your work
Speaker 7: done and most time until you show me you can't.
Speaker 7: And then those individual cases where they show you can't,
Speaker 7: You've got to take care of those because if you don't,
Speaker 7: you're going to lose the You're going to lose the
Speaker 7: engagement and the loyalty of the other people who are
Speaker 7: playing by the rules.
Speaker 2: Another element of those studies that they may sure, do
Speaker 2: you know, does it? Does a research hold across different
Speaker 2: income levels on it? For example, if you make a
Speaker 2: five thousand dollars bonus versus an extra week off, that
Speaker 2: might feel different if you're making you know, thirty five
Speaker 2: grand a year, but if you're making don't one hundred
Speaker 2: and fifty two hundred k year, that five thousand dollars
Speaker 2: is like, yeah, you know, I'll do the vacation instead.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And also, I mean there are people
Speaker 7: who are doing three and four jobs and if you
Speaker 7: gave them, I mean, I've seen this. If you gave
Speaker 7: them a two hundred dollars bonus. That's potentially their electric bill.
Speaker 7: I mean that's a big deal. So yes, the proportion
Speaker 7: of what the proportion combined with what the person's individual
Speaker 7: situation is is, is what And that's why I think
Speaker 7: you've got to create a You have to get out
Speaker 7: of the mentality that one size fits all. Get a
Speaker 7: benefit of your compon benefits person, Bring in a consultant
Speaker 7: of compon benefits consultant. Make sure your attorneys in the
Speaker 7: loop so you're applying things consistently, but start to recognize
Speaker 7: and offer benefits that allow people to to to be
Speaker 7: recognized as a person who's not like this the person
Speaker 7: sitting in the next view.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Julie Balki.
Speaker 2: If a company offers you more vacation but you're afraid
Speaker 2: to take it because of that mantra from the loss
Speaker 2: is you know, because a work or culture of fear
Speaker 2: is seeing being less committed, does it does it benefit
Speaker 2: evaporate entirely? I mean, so many Americans have vacation days
Speaker 2: on the table. I don't know why, but they do.
Speaker 2: And that's probably part of it.
Speaker 7: Absolutely, So it's the culture set. So you might work
Speaker 7: for a company where the very top leadership is saying, absolutely,
Speaker 7: take all your time. You want you to take all
Speaker 7: your time. But you might work for a director. You
Speaker 7: might be direct reporting to somebody who rolls his eyes,
Speaker 7: rolls his or her eyes at that statement and says, yeah,
Speaker 7: kind of do as you know, do as I do,
Speaker 7: not as they're telling you to do, and really actively
Speaker 7: discourages it. And so yeah, I mean, and that can
Speaker 7: we say. I've said over and over again, all the
Speaker 7: research indicates the number one people reason people leave organizations
Speaker 7: is poor leadership. And that's an example of poor leadership.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense, But I don't think you're going
Speaker 2: to change that, you know, as long as they manage
Speaker 2: your boss or owners there, I don't think you're going
Speaker 2: to change that mindset. And you may see, you know,
Speaker 2: some some changes there as well. And I think you
Speaker 2: know what the boss test experiment, you know, one text
Speaker 2: drops the human feelings score by more than a full
Speaker 2: point in the seven point scale, and so, you know,
Speaker 2: I guess that tells us a lot more about what
Speaker 2: most workplaces actually, how they operate as approached to how
Speaker 2: realistically they're disconnected from the time off model here that
Speaker 2: you know, there's plenty of people listening who work in
Speaker 2: environments like this, and you think at some point the
Speaker 2: message you get through.
Speaker 7: It never does though, No, no it doesn't. I mean
Speaker 7: I can't even tell you the number of conversations I
Speaker 7: have with people that they work for someone who nine
Speaker 7: out of ten people could quit and say, you know,
Speaker 7: the leadership care is horrible, or nine not ten people
Speaker 7: could quit, and that leader would say, people just don't
Speaker 7: want to work anymore. That that lack of saying, wait
Speaker 7: a minute, maybe I'm doing something wrong. It is like
Speaker 7: this denial that leaders have over why people leave organizations.
Speaker 7: It's like they must twist themselves into some incredibly incredible
Speaker 7: prexels to believe that if you have really high turnover
Speaker 7: it's because people don't want to work anymore.
Speaker 4: It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess all that fair is that it's not
Speaker 2: just the workplace, it's human nature.
Speaker 5: Is.
Speaker 2: For example, you know, if you're divorced, if you get
Speaker 2: a divorce, well it's it's probably them. Second divorce is
Speaker 2: like well, and by the third one it's like, well,
Speaker 2: clearly it's not them, it's you.
Speaker 1: Right, I just keep picking bad people, do you know
Speaker 1: it's probably you.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, but that that lack of even awareness that
Speaker 7: even says we don't want to believe that should I
Speaker 7: be doing something different, it's going to be leading differently.
Speaker 7: It is crazy to me and I stories all the
Speaker 7: time leaders write in Cincinnati who don't like the most
Speaker 7: clueless because they don't want to admit they thought they
Speaker 7: have the mentality that I'm in charge, so I'm the
Speaker 7: smartest and so nobody can question me. Well, especially if
Speaker 7: you have a younger workforce, they are not going to
Speaker 7: stick around and stuck it up. They're just not And
Speaker 7: so that that is part of why we're getting as
Speaker 7: younger generation doesn't want to work. Maybe they don't want
Speaker 7: to work for you, Maybe they don't want to work
Speaker 7: in the way you want that to work. Maybe you
Speaker 7: need to take a look inside and see how you're
Speaker 7: leading and see, you know, see if your behavior matches,
Speaker 7: you know, matches what you're putting out there. And there's
Speaker 7: just this human nature that's like it can't possibly be me.
Speaker 2: Do you think that employers will trust this data? I mean,
Speaker 2: we have studies like this all the time, and I
Speaker 2: don't just fall on deafirs.
Speaker 4: No, I know.
Speaker 7: It's just it's just it's you know, after you've been
Speaker 7: around for us, Wow, there are so many. But you
Speaker 7: just look at the number of books that are written
Speaker 7: on how to be a good leader and the fact
Speaker 7: that the needle hasn't moved, you know, forever on why
Speaker 7: people leave organizations, But their number one complaint is about
Speaker 7: their culture. The person who has the most influence over
Speaker 7: their lives. Nobody wants, nobody wants to believe it's that,
Speaker 7: and they can read book after book after book, but
Speaker 7: it requires that introspection and that well wait a minute,
Speaker 7: you know, am I really open to receiving feedback from
Speaker 7: people who have experienced me as a leader and really
Speaker 7: open and open myself up and not be defensive, no doubt,
Speaker 7: and think about what I can do differently because of
Speaker 7: training and training and books and everything out there.
Speaker 2: It addresses the problem. And that's the biggest problem. There
Speaker 2: are bad bosses. You know, there's not many there's books
Speaker 2: on how to be a better boss or And it's
Speaker 2: kind of like, why aren't there there are plenty of
Speaker 2: weight loss books, Julia, Why aren't our books out there
Speaker 2: on how to gain weight?
Speaker 7: Right?
Speaker 2: Julie Bouki, Right, Julie Bouki career shir up here on
Speaker 2: the Scotsland Show Julie on the Job every Wednesday morning.
Speaker 2: It's again the website her and her team. She got
Speaker 2: a whole team, by the way, it's b a Uk
Speaker 2: Debaki Group, dot Com, career Coach consult, et cetera. Thanks again,
Speaker 2: we'll talk next week. Have a good one, all all right,
Speaker 2: appreciate it.
Speaker 6: Han.
Speaker 2: Let me get a news update in when a return
Speaker 2: boots on the ground here. Alex Schaeffer is his name,
Speaker 2: and he's a resident Adams County and you know it's
Speaker 2: the normal guy who now has become well to a
Speaker 2: lesser great activist. There's a local battle over data centers
Speaker 2: waging across not just Ohio, but Kentucky, Indiana, all over
Speaker 2: and where to put these things? We need them, we're
Speaker 2: using them, but we got it. We don't want them
Speaker 2: in our backyard. He has literally boots on the ground
Speaker 2: and fighting. And what's going on in Adams County. There's
Speaker 2: no the meeting tonight and what does that look like?
Speaker 2: Because now you're going as Adams County. But you know
Speaker 2: this is an issue we're all gonna face sooner rather
Speaker 2: than later. Where to put the data centers. He's next
Speaker 2: on the show one hundred W regisins.
Speaker 8: Now it's got flowed on seven one hundred w welw
Speaker 8: so this week, and you're probably gonna spend a lot
Speaker 8: more time in front of devices than you do during
Speaker 8: the week, right just because you're not working hopefully and
Speaker 8: you yourself.
Speaker 2: On average, you have around twenty one devices which are
Speaker 2: online in various places throughout the day, all of them
Speaker 2: using data pretty much all the time. And with the
Speaker 2: AI boom comes the need for more data centers. Thus
Speaker 2: the debate. So here in the Tri State, the debate
Speaker 2: over regulations being fought tooth and nail. And if you
Speaker 2: don't think this affects you, it's probably coming to your area,
Speaker 2: no matter if you live in the city or in
Speaker 2: the outlining area especial rural areas Ohio. Right now we're
Speaker 2: fifth nationally for data center development. We want to be
Speaker 2: number one. The state SENESUS is an economic machine force
Speaker 2: to get us on the technology well at the top
Speaker 2: of the technology map. I guess City of Cincinnati's you
Speaker 2: may or may not know, it's getting very proactive. They
Speaker 2: just put a temporary moratorium on data centers in the
Speaker 2: city while they do a zoning study Adams County. There
Speaker 2: was another meeting over well, well, we really don't know.
Speaker 2: This is probably the most interesting battle over data centers
Speaker 2: is that adding the controversy over these plants comes a
Speaker 2: plan here in Adams County that's completely secret because Economic
Speaker 2: Development director signed a non disclosure dree agreement, and nobody
Speaker 2: really knows what it's going to be, where it's going
Speaker 2: to go, and what it's going to do.
Speaker 1: Other than that, everything's great. Alex Schaefer's here.
Speaker 2: Alex is a resident and he's proactive in the process
Speaker 2: of finding out if this is right for his community,
Speaker 2: and he's out in Adams County and the Monroe Township
Speaker 2: and joins the show this morning. Basically, the bottom line
Speaker 2: is you're not going to do a more toim like
Speaker 2: City Cincinnati has, but you're going to make sure there's
Speaker 2: some strict zoning regulations in place. So it's it's progressing,
Speaker 2: it's moving.
Speaker 9: Forward, it's progressing, it's moving forward. There's a lot of
Speaker 9: community input. The role of the trustees now within the
Speaker 9: township is they are going to work with outside legal
Speaker 9: counsel to put.
Speaker 6: In the framework for zoning.
Speaker 9: You know, within these industrial areas within the township because
Speaker 9: everybody was on the same page where we have to
Speaker 9: get more information, We have to have more facts, and
Speaker 9: more importantly, we have to know even who these people
Speaker 9: are that are wanting to come in and what they're
Speaker 9: wanting to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what raised the red flags for you about
Speaker 2: these projects and what motive motivated you to get involved.
Speaker 9: You know, these sites at Stewart and Killing Station, Killing
Speaker 9: is in and Roe Township have been empty for roughly
Speaker 9: eight years since the power plant shut down, and a
Speaker 9: lot of that has to do with the site cleanup.
Speaker 9: And those were the economic drivers of our county, and
Speaker 9: Adams County is such a prideful, beautiful countryside, but those
Speaker 9: were the economic drivers that really our community was built around.
Speaker 9: So it is these are general generational issues that we
Speaker 9: have in our county and we want to make sure
Speaker 9: that we're doing the right things. So not only us,
Speaker 9: but our children and our grandchildren are proud to continue
Speaker 9: to live and remain in Adams County.
Speaker 2: So this isn't completely going Hey, we don't want a
Speaker 2: data center, we don't want to of this stuff, stay
Speaker 2: the hell out of our town.
Speaker 9: No, I would say everyone is of the mindset where
Speaker 9: as I would akin these NDAs to that mister Worley
Speaker 9: signed is you're essentially agreen to get married before you've
Speaker 9: even seen who you're going on a date with. So
Speaker 9: you know, we need to have more facts. We need
Speaker 9: to know exactly who these companies are. Are they are
Speaker 9: they you know, companies based in the US. Are they
Speaker 9: foreign based companies? And you know what exactly the plans
Speaker 9: are because there's so many different variables that come into play.
Speaker 2: And I think that's a critical point because in this
Speaker 2: particular case, and we'll get into the NDA battle in
Speaker 2: just a second. And Paul Warley, I believe is the
Speaker 2: Economic Development director for Adams County. He signed an NDA
Speaker 2: with a company, But you guys have no idea on
Speaker 2: you know, the size and scope of the project, the
Speaker 2: exact location. I mean, you could kind of figure that
Speaker 2: out maybe with EPA records, but if you don't know
Speaker 2: the company, you don't know even if it's a data
Speaker 2: center or the type of services they offer before this
Speaker 2: thing goes.
Speaker 9: So the projects that are being proposed in Spring Township
Speaker 9: are a little bit further along, specifically at Stewart Seite,
Speaker 9: and there's also Buck Canyon site, which is across the
Speaker 9: road to inn Row, is very much earlier on in
Speaker 9: the process, which is very fortunate. And so that's precisely it.
Speaker 9: You know, we have to have more information on this
Speaker 9: because there I mean, it's just it's a black hole
Speaker 9: right now for the county, Okay.
Speaker 2: So the Economic Development director signs this non disclosure agreement
Speaker 2: with a couple companies and says, we've got to do
Speaker 2: this and they'll be transparency if the project gets to
Speaker 2: a point. So, you know, how do you respond to
Speaker 2: residents like yourself being asked away for details until the
Speaker 2: deals are nearly finalized. At what point is it too
Speaker 2: late for meaningful public input?
Speaker 9: I think that starts at the time that you actually
Speaker 9: signed the nbas. You know, Paul Whorley executed two nbas,
Speaker 9: one in January of twenty twenty four, the other one
Speaker 9: was in November of this year, and based on my
Speaker 9: tracing them, it's my opinion that they are linked to
Speaker 9: Amazon because the framework around the NBA's is the same
Speaker 9: as what's going on in Mount Warb right now in
Speaker 9: Brown County. And you know, to that point, and I
Speaker 9: had raised this issue and discussions with some of the
Speaker 9: Commissioners on Monday. Is Paul Whorley serves at the pleasure
Speaker 9: of the Board of Commissioners in Adams County. So how
Speaker 9: is the Board of Commissioners able to oversee Paul discharging
Speaker 9: his job duties for the board and thus in the
Speaker 9: best interests of the county if they cannot even monitor
Speaker 9: what he is working on?
Speaker 6: Who is who he is working with on these sites?
Speaker 2: Sure, but from the company standpoint, be it Amazon or
Speaker 2: whatever it might be, we don't know at this point.
Speaker 2: He's kind of like the kind of what so on
Speaker 2: these deals, you get a guy like him, an economic
Speaker 2: development guy, signs a non disclosure agreement with whoever's building
Speaker 2: this thing, which is kind of standard practice because you know,
Speaker 2: they want to keep the secret for as long as
Speaker 2: pus from the competition because there's a lot of proprietary
Speaker 2: technical information of all. But the people who don't sign
Speaker 2: it would be the the elected lawmakers, right, that would
Speaker 2: be the county commissioners of Adams County. And so at
Speaker 2: some point there's going to have to be a disclosure
Speaker 2: so that you can you can vote on this. So
Speaker 2: based on that, is this anything?
Speaker 6: Is this?
Speaker 2: Is this different than how it's done elsewhere, not that
Speaker 2: it makes it right, but you know what I'm saying
Speaker 2: is like, if this is standard practice, I get why
Speaker 2: Amazon or whoever is trying to protect their interests here
Speaker 2: because you know, you don't want all this information out
Speaker 2: there until you get a deal kind of put together.
Speaker 9: The debate on whether NDA's is standard practice or not
Speaker 9: really dependent on who you ask. I can tell you
Speaker 9: in certain areas and Columbus, which Columbus has over one
Speaker 9: hundred data centers right now, is not the most standard practice.
Speaker 9: And to your point about competition, that is actually what
Speaker 9: NDAs specifically inhibit. My degree is in economics from Ohio
Speaker 9: State University, and when you put an NDA in place,
Speaker 9: that prohibits you from even looking at other alternatives as
Speaker 9: to those sites and those developments, thus reducing competition. What
Speaker 9: happens when you reduce competition, you harm the consumer. Who's
Speaker 9: the consumer here the residents of Adams County.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I get the argument, and you, you guys,
Speaker 2: you definitely should have a hand in the process here.
Speaker 2: We don't want government just going out and no, we
Speaker 2: know what's best, and that's it doesn't work that way.
Speaker 2: County officials there will switch to the jobs saying they said, well,
Speaker 2: seven hundred seven hundred jobs lost with the power plant
Speaker 2: closures there in Adams County. Another five and a half
Speaker 2: million from school funding gets pulled out because as they said, look,
Speaker 2: I've going hey, listen, this is going to help support
Speaker 2: the tax space here. But as I understand it, data
Speaker 2: centers are obviously exempt from property taxes because it's commercial.
Speaker 2: What about the job creation element?
Speaker 9: So job creation, the studies have shown that you have
Speaker 9: to have roughly twenty million dollars of capital input costs
Speaker 9: to create one full time job. So if you have
Speaker 9: a billion dollar data center development, you are on going
Speaker 9: to create roughly fifty jobs, Whereas if you look at
Speaker 9: other industrial usages for that site that actually provide you know,
Speaker 9: not only additional jobs and infrastructure and increase land value
Speaker 9: for the community. You are actually specifically targeting a broader workforce,
Speaker 9: the technical skill set of the workforce that we have
Speaker 9: in Adams County. And it's also then benefiting the community
Speaker 9: for people to work there and also the school districts
Speaker 9: in terms of the generation of those taxes from the payroll.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, what about the element of what about the
Speaker 2: this is you know, the trail. I love the trades,
Speaker 2: but there'll be like over a thousand, around a thousand
Speaker 2: construction jobs for up to five years, and some of
Speaker 2: those would have to be in place for maintenance because
Speaker 2: a minute you finished this huge project going to take
Speaker 2: you know, three years, you're going to start having to
Speaker 2: refit some areas that were done three years ago because
Speaker 2: it's technology to change as rapidly. So some of the
Speaker 2: estimates say, you know, maybe one hundred million plus in
Speaker 2: local wages, one thousand, two thousand workers, eighty percent of
Speaker 2: those will be and radius of where you live.
Speaker 1: Those jobs are nothing to some of your nose.
Speaker 6: App there are nothing good. Some of your knows that.
Speaker 9: But I think you have to look at the actual
Speaker 9: data in terms of the payroll. And I've talked about
Speaker 9: this with David Gifford, the county auditor, who's a good
Speaker 9: friend of mine. And you know, when people try and
Speaker 9: say these auxiliary jobs that are created in the permanency
Speaker 9: of them, the numbers simply do not support that in
Speaker 9: the payroll records, and the auditor has that, and I
Speaker 9: think you also overall with these data centers in the
Speaker 9: job creation, you have to look at what's happening in
Speaker 9: the Greater Columbus area with Intel, where essentially Mike Dwine
Speaker 9: sold the farm to Intel and we had and the
Speaker 9: plants were supposed to open last year, and they were
Speaker 9: all these financial incentives and benchmarks that were supposed to
Speaker 9: be met by them.
Speaker 6: They have not.
Speaker 9: Mike had the option to enforce those agreements last year
Speaker 9: and he basically.
Speaker 6: Said, no, it's okay.
Speaker 9: You know, you can do whatever you want here in Ohio.
Speaker 9: So what would make the situation any different in Appalasha areas.
Speaker 6: And the Yeah.
Speaker 2: But the same time you look at it and go,
Speaker 2: are there industries that are are knocking at the door
Speaker 2: and trying to get their way into Adams County right now?
Speaker 2: You know you mentioned Columbus, Cincinnati, the big cities. A
Speaker 2: lot of companies want to do business in those areas.
Speaker 2: It makes a lot of sense for reasons we don't.
Speaker 2: The obvious reasons would be infrastructures already in place. But
Speaker 2: you know, Adams County I lost jobs, power plants. Is
Speaker 2: it kind of like you're turning your nose up with
Speaker 2: a good thing or you're trying to basically avoid a
Speaker 2: slam dunk. Care I mean, I think people see this
Speaker 2: and go, well, it's Adams County. It's not like and
Speaker 2: it's not being I'm not being derogatory. It's just like
Speaker 2: there are in companies that are looking to knock the
Speaker 2: door down to Adams County at this point.
Speaker 6: Are there.
Speaker 9: No, I would disagree with that. The sites have been
Speaker 9: looked at for a multiple for a multitude of different
Speaker 9: sectors over the years. And again, I think it's important
Speaker 9: for people to remember that once the power plants closed,
Speaker 9: it's not like you can just open up, you know,
Speaker 9: a new enterprise there the next day. There's so much
Speaker 9: environmental cleanup the head to be done with King Fisher Partners.
Speaker 6: To come in.
Speaker 1: There's a brownfield, yeah exactly precisely, yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and but okay, so there's some infrastructure there,
Speaker 2: but people are well, well, I'd rather build something, you know.
Speaker 2: At the same time, you know, these data centers take
Speaker 2: a lot of power. So you know, put two and
Speaker 2: two together, it's pretty obvious that you want to be
Speaker 2: near water, which you have, and you want to be
Speaker 2: near you know, megawats of electricity.
Speaker 1: They're easily accessible.
Speaker 9: Correct, and we do have the power grid there in place,
Speaker 9: and you know, this is something that a big Ramaswami
Speaker 9: has discussed about the strain on the power grid right now,
Speaker 9: and there's currently a House bill in place, House Built
Speaker 9: six forty six sitting in the House Rules Committee in
Speaker 9: terms of actually setting a thirteam member commissioned to study
Speaker 9: these data centers because of the boom of them in Ohio,
Speaker 9: because of the strain on our electrical grid. So I
Speaker 9: kind of akin it to people as this is, how
Speaker 9: are we going to continue as a society to supply
Speaker 9: the power and energy to these data centers because they
Speaker 9: are not they are they are an energy input, They're
Speaker 9: not an energy export if we do not have facilities
Speaker 9: in place to actually generate that power for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've talked about this a lot of my show
Speaker 2: Well in the Future, and I you know, you're in
Speaker 2: the tech sector as well, So it's not like you
Speaker 2: know your lott of your scream at the old man,
Speaker 2: scream at the clouds and saying damn computers.
Speaker 1: Go away, right, I mean you lean we all leaned
Speaker 1: into it.
Speaker 2: We're all and it's it's such a paradox, right, Alex,
Speaker 2: because we're all guilty of this. We all have devices.
Speaker 2: I mean, we're talking you know, digitally. Right now I'm
Speaker 2: recording you digitally, it's going into a cloud. And so
Speaker 2: we're guilty of this ourselves right now. We have no
Speaker 2: choice but to figure out a way we can all live.
Speaker 6: With us absolutely. And you know, my company uses you know.
Speaker 9: Cloud servers, and you know, we have to have them
Speaker 9: as society, and we have to have them also in
Speaker 9: terms of national intelligence and also being independent from you know,
Speaker 9: foreign control. And I think we all saw what happened
Speaker 9: with COVID when manufacturing shut down and the rest of
Speaker 9: the world look that, you know, Oh my god, look
Speaker 9: how the pendent we are on China. So you know,
Speaker 9: that is definitely, you know, a great point. And that's
Speaker 9: the thing I think everyone's standpoint is we are not
Speaker 9: saying no to data centers overall, but in terms of
Speaker 9: specifically the locations and the phases in which you possibly
Speaker 9: would put those in and where you would put those
Speaker 9: in at is what the biggest concern is with not
Speaker 9: having any information from these companies?
Speaker 2: The number one, the biggest outside of transparency the politics
Speaker 2: of it, which generally they tend to settle down at
Speaker 2: some point. What's the biggest concern for residents? Would you
Speaker 2: say there Alex Schaeffer and Adams County over this.
Speaker 9: I would say specifically where they're proposing it is, you know,
Speaker 9: the landscape in you know, the southern part of Adams County,
Speaker 9: the hills and the river and everything is what makes
Speaker 9: Adams County beautiful.
Speaker 6: And also, you know.
Speaker 9: You know, the side effects that you have from the
Speaker 9: data center's long term is something that again we don't
Speaker 9: know about. So if the state is at the process
Speaker 9: sets to where they're looking at creating a thirteen member
Speaker 9: committee to study those effects, then us as Adams County
Speaker 9: should sit here and look at it and say, Okay,
Speaker 9: if this is a broader issue at the state and
Speaker 9: obviously the national level, you know, we don't have the
Speaker 9: ability as a small community to fight this later on
Speaker 9: down the road. So we don't want to make the
Speaker 9: wrong decision now that we look back ten years and
Speaker 9: we're like, what did we do right?
Speaker 2: It's hard because you know, you're at the tip of
Speaker 2: the spirit at this point. There are not many other
Speaker 2: peers you could look at that have been doing this
Speaker 2: for you twenty years and see what the long term
Speaker 2: effects are. You've got to make a decision. It's going
Speaker 2: to impact the next hundred exactly.
Speaker 9: And you know that's that's honestly the problem in society
Speaker 9: with a lot of things, whether that's technology or medicine,
Speaker 9: and you know, we have to continue to evolve and adapt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are unforeseen consequences that no one can predict.
Speaker 2: And usually that's the case, we didn't we didn't think
Speaker 2: of that, or we didn't see that coming. Because while
Speaker 2: the world is always changing, for sure, So what are
Speaker 2: the next steps here?
Speaker 9: So from area township right now they're in the process
Speaker 9: of obtaining outside legal counsels, start trapped in the framework
Speaker 9: for what they want to put in for zoning. Specifically,
Speaker 9: their Sprig Township has a meeting I believe it is
Speaker 9: February twenty third, and there there is going to be
Speaker 9: some more information hopefully that will come out about at
Speaker 9: that standpoint. And so overall for the county, the commissioners
Speaker 9: have promised to have more public input and a more
Speaker 9: dedicated special meeting to this. But again I think it's
Speaker 9: very important to point out, you know, in terms of
Speaker 9: these developments, the Board of Commissioners has the option to
Speaker 9: direct mister Warley to recuse himself from these NDAs, and
Speaker 9: that prevents these companies moving forward with the speed that
Speaker 9: they would like and garner that public input and have
Speaker 9: these representatives come in and talk to the community, talk
Speaker 9: to us about what their plans are and how they
Speaker 9: want to integrate themselves into our county in a way
Speaker 9: that we're proud of, just like General Electric has done
Speaker 9: with their jet engine testing facility in.
Speaker 2: People makes sense, You think Cincinnata has it right putting
Speaker 2: the moratry monusor.
Speaker 6: Did I do?
Speaker 9: And several other townships and Columbus have done that. Jerone Township,
Speaker 9: Washington Township, and the city of Dublin have done that,
Speaker 9: and they have data centers kind of around the perimeter
Speaker 9: of the City of Dublin. And because you know right
Speaker 9: now it's an arms race for data centers, it truly is,
Speaker 9: and that stems from, I believe, you know, a technological.
Speaker 6: Arms race with China. So again, in order for.
Speaker 9: Us to properly look at this for our future and
Speaker 9: look at the side effects of it, and look at
Speaker 9: where we want to see these things in the landscape
Speaker 9: of our communities, we have to put the pause button
Speaker 9: in place, get more information, get more facts, and truly
Speaker 9: be able to make and more educated and informed decision.
Speaker 2: Alex Schaeffer is a residence in Adams County and it's
Speaker 2: certainly one of the more interesting cases because of NDAs
Speaker 2: and land and not knowing what really is going to
Speaker 2: go and who even owns a data center for that point.
Speaker 2: But it's a great example to look at for the
Speaker 2: rest of us because Alex is a resident, is getting involved.
Speaker 2: He's being proactive in the process of finding out if
Speaker 2: it's right for his community and where he lives and breathes,
Speaker 2: he eats and works. And that's a battle. It's you
Speaker 2: hear and that's going well, that's Adams County, but guess
Speaker 2: what it's happening in Cincy. It's going to happen in
Speaker 2: not only the city, but it's going to happen in
Speaker 2: maybe suburban areas, but particularly rural areas, Butler County, Mount Orb,
Speaker 2: the list goes on and on and on. So it's
Speaker 2: a battle we're all going to have to face, or
Speaker 2: an issue we're gonna have to face, I guess, and
Speaker 2: figure out how to to what the best practice is.
Speaker 2: It's not going away. We're gonna have to put them somewhere.
Speaker 2: How do we coexist, I guess is a question it's
Speaker 2: a great case, Alex. We'll talk again in the future,
Speaker 2: I'm sure.
Speaker 6: Man.
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on and shedding some light on this issue.
Speaker 9: Absolutely, and Scott, you know on behalf of the people
Speaker 9: of Adams County. Thank you for having me on to
Speaker 9: allow us to raise our voice on your platform into
Speaker 9: the greater Tri State area. We are truly and greatly
Speaker 9: appreciative of all.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you, brother, and again we'll talk soon. Thanks again,
Speaker 2: Thanks Scott. All right, there we go, Alex Schaeffer on
Speaker 2: the show. Yeah you hear that, you go. It doesn't really,
Speaker 2: it doesn't concern it, does it concerned? We're the ones
Speaker 2: doing it right. We use all this stuff as far
Speaker 2: as information goes in data. We're using it right now.
Speaker 2: You're using it right and we're all using it. We
Speaker 2: have no choice. This is it's what it is. It's
Speaker 2: the future too. So can we lean and make money
Speaker 2: and make Ohio a more vibrant and improve our economy
Speaker 2: because of Intel, because of aws et cetera, et cetera. Well,
Speaker 2: we also have to live where these plants are too.
Speaker 2: So watching these guys, I think it's a great test
Speaker 2: case for all of us. If you will anyway, we'll
Speaker 2: continue to follow that. Scott's Loan show continues seven hundred
Speaker 2: wl slonely seven hundred w Aldo.
Speaker 1: It'll be sharing the day off.
Speaker 2: She is resting after her work is MC along with
Speaker 2: Tom was off today. Marty grap for Homeless Kids twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six raised a quarter million dollars to feed kids
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati, So thank you, as King of Marti grat
Speaker 2: thank you for that. Speaking of kids, the weather is
Speaker 2: starting to get warmer and more kids will be participating
Speaker 2: in sports, and we know when it comes to concussions
Speaker 2: that kids are particularly susceptible to this. Football comes to
Speaker 2: my first and foremost. But now with the advent of
Speaker 2: flag football and girls participating at record levels, we're starting
Speaker 2: to see more and more kids present in emergency departments
Speaker 2: with concussions. And seven out of ten ed visits for
Speaker 2: sports and recreation related injuries are concussions for kids seventeen
Speaker 2: and under. It's incredible. Joining the show this morning once
Speaker 2: again is Bruce Parkman. He's an expert in preventing TBIs. Bruce,
Speaker 2: welcome back, how are you?
Speaker 5: Thank you very much, sir, appreciate you having me on
Speaker 5: the show.
Speaker 2: Doing fine today, Yeah, it's an important issue when you
Speaker 2: are exposed to early concussive trauma and we're talking about
Speaker 2: maybe multiple one, two or three or more, and maybe
Speaker 2: you don't know that your kid is suffering from a concussion.
Speaker 2: There's a hidden risk there. What are we seeing in
Speaker 2: relation to that? And then later on mental illness? Are
Speaker 2: we talking about CTE in.
Speaker 5: Particular talking about was called RhI repeated head impacts and
Speaker 5: those are the little blows, the subconcussom blows that kids
Speaker 5: take when their head hits the wrestling mat, or they
Speaker 5: get tackled in football, or they head the soccer ball.
Speaker 5: And these little impacts are now known over time to
Speaker 5: be the cause of CTE, which is of course you
Speaker 5: don't know about that to you die. But there are
Speaker 5: also the cause of damage to the brain that over time,
Speaker 5: through the inflammation and continued prolonged exposure to the subcust
Speaker 5: of is hits, leads to mental illness from the damage
Speaker 5: to the brain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in some cases we know it may be one
Speaker 2: or two decent I mean really really good ones graded
Speaker 2: higher graded concussions that may causes but you're talking about
Speaker 2: now just the jarring of the brain, not necessarily concussion.
Speaker 5: Right, absolutely, sir. Every one of those hits changes the
Speaker 5: brain at the microcellular level. And the issue is because
Speaker 5: they don't provide any concussive symptoms like the child is
Speaker 5: not busy or the planning of a headache, we assume
Speaker 5: that it's safe. But what we now know from science
Speaker 5: and research and how I lost my son from mental illness,
Speaker 5: and that was validated by research and a study that
Speaker 5: we funded at Boston University with the NFL players as well,
Speaker 5: is that there is extreme structural damage that occurs over years,
Speaker 5: and that damage has been associated and known to be
Speaker 5: correlated with mental illness for over four decades.
Speaker 2: What type of mental illnesses are we talking about? How
Speaker 2: does it present later?
Speaker 5: So most of the mental illnesses that we could actually
Speaker 5: runs the gamut from psychological, cognitive, and behavior disorders. So
Speaker 5: we're talking about aggression, rage, and pulsivity. But it could
Speaker 5: be light noise sensitivity, it could be apathy, it could
Speaker 5: be just a lack of care. And the problem is
Speaker 5: that we have is that as a society, we assume
Speaker 5: that our kids are growing up or you know, they're
Speaker 5: just not you know, they're not taking part in the
Speaker 5: activity that used to love so well. But we are
Speaker 5: now finding out that all these mental illnesses. We have
Speaker 5: kids that are incarcerated right now only because they started
Speaker 5: playing sports so young that their brain is damage and rage, aggression,
Speaker 5: and pulsivity. I'll emanate from the prefrontal cortex damage, which
Speaker 5: is right behind the forehead and assumes the majority of
Speaker 5: the trauma that these kids are are are are being
Speaker 5: exposed to in contact sports.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm sure there's some folks listening and maybe
Speaker 2: being dismissive about this, going, oh, come on, okay, so
Speaker 2: you get you know, bump your head a little bit.
Speaker 2: You know, you made your body, We've developed as human beings,
Speaker 2: We've evolved, or maybe God made imperfect people, depending on
Speaker 2: how you look. And then you're telling me just the
Speaker 2: notion of living your life and drying your brain is
Speaker 2: going to cause someone to be a serial killer by
Speaker 2: the time they're sixteen or seventeen. You know, I get
Speaker 2: the extremism, and that maybe that argument that you would pushback,
Speaker 2: you would get from that, but we know scientifically that
Speaker 2: concussive repetition is causing problems, you know, the more severe ites.
Speaker 2: Certainly early on when it said when's a full blown concussion. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you can see it, but later on in life. I
Speaker 2: think there is something there that the constant jarring and
Speaker 2: the NonStop assault on your brain causes some of these
Speaker 2: things later in life. I mean, it seems to me
Speaker 2: to be a pretty clear connection. And I'm just a
Speaker 2: lay person.
Speaker 5: Oh no, sure, you're absolutely correct. And unfortunately, we were
Speaker 5: contacted by a family yesterday who just lost their son.
Speaker 5: He jumped off a bridge and his only contact sport
Speaker 5: was he liked to head the soccer ball, and he
Speaker 5: started heading the soccer ball kind of obsessively around the
Speaker 5: age of six or seven, and they watched their son degrade.
Speaker 5: And because they had no knowledge that it was the
Speaker 5: heading that was causing the mental illness, this kid had
Speaker 5: been to multiple psychiatric counselors, been all through treatment, been
Speaker 5: on every kind of drug because everybody thought he had
Speaker 5: a brain problem. It was never associated with contact sports.
Speaker 5: The issue of subconcussive trauma is not taught in any
Speaker 5: medical nursing or psychiatric institution of learning in the America.
Speaker 5: So if parents have no recourse they had, they cannot
Speaker 5: make informed decisions. When my son came to me and said, hey, Dad,
Speaker 5: I want to play football and he's already a heavy wrestler.
Speaker 5: I said, okay, who dies in this thing, let's man
Speaker 5: up right, and so but I ended up allowing my
Speaker 5: son to be exposed to more trauma, which you know,
Speaker 5: after you know, being his brain was validated and studied
Speaker 5: shown to be the cause of the trauma through his brain,
Speaker 5: that was then you know, causing his schizophrenia and depression
Speaker 5: and causing him to take his life. This happens around
Speaker 5: the country and we are absolutely uninformed about this as
Speaker 5: a society. And just by mitigating stuff. If we took
Speaker 5: contact drills out of high school football, we could eliminate
Speaker 5: sixty to eighty percent of the subcust of trauma. If
Speaker 5: we stopped exposing kids heads till fourteen, when the prefuntal
Speaker 5: portex starts to develop, we could make a massive debt
Speaker 5: and the amount of mental illnesses that are resulting from this.
Speaker 5: Even in the military right now, we trained so realistically
Speaker 5: we are having special operation.
Speaker 6: This guy him a former Green.
Speaker 5: Berasard major demonstrating mental health just because they train around
Speaker 5: too many explosions like they're going the war. So it's
Speaker 5: like you're you're comment about, we're always always in sports.
Speaker 5: Kids are playing sports. You can play football year round.
Speaker 5: Now we are harming our children just through obsession with
Speaker 5: these sports and their passion for these sports of the
Speaker 5: sports as well.
Speaker 2: And I think there's something there, by the way, thanks
Speaker 2: for your service. I know a sergeant major that I've
Speaker 2: heard that before too, is that we have soldiers and
Speaker 2: sailors that are around concussion, concussive devices, right, explosive devices,
Speaker 2: artillery and the like, and it's NonStop.
Speaker 1: It's a barrage.
Speaker 2: And what happens is that jars your brain much like
Speaker 2: getting hit because you feel it, you know, it literally
Speaker 2: makes you move, takes your breath away. That repetition is
Speaker 2: never accounted for when we're talking about things like this.
Speaker 2: And so we have a we have people who served
Speaker 2: in a military that that are turning on and we
Speaker 2: think it's because of their service and the connection to
Speaker 2: higher suicide rates and the mental illness that soldiers and
Speaker 2: sailors have, and it may be in ef fact, maybe
Speaker 2: part of this says to do with their training.
Speaker 5: I am at a conference right now today to look
Speaker 5: at blast exposure and its effect on military services brains.
Speaker 5: And we are now pushing hard and there is recognition
Speaker 5: in the military that a lot of the mental illnesses
Speaker 5: and suicidality that has that has occurred over the past
Speaker 5: could be associated yet was never attributed to their mental
Speaker 5: to their military service. Again, a huge oversight in the
Speaker 5: way we have looked at things that we assume to
Speaker 5: be innocent because they don't affect us like you could be.
Speaker 5: I've been around thousands of explosions, right and you can
Speaker 5: or you know, I've been tackled on rugby fields. I
Speaker 5: played semi professional rugby. You get up, you make the
Speaker 5: next hit, you assume you're okay. We as society have
Speaker 5: to understand the risk and dangers of these continuous forms
Speaker 5: of exposure. What is doing to our brains, both that
Speaker 5: for kids and veterans and professional athletes.
Speaker 1: I guess the other part of the problem here too.
Speaker 2: By the way, on the show's Bruce Parkman and Bruce's
Speaker 2: former Green Beret, a Sergeant major, lost his son to
Speaker 2: what they believe is exposure to concussive and subconcussive trauma
Speaker 2: and from youth sports, from wrestling and from football, and
Speaker 2: ultimately took his own life at seventeen after battling mental
Speaker 2: illness and what we've seen in athletes, particularly professional athletes,
Speaker 2: is with each in every transgression, each and every head injury,
Speaker 2: it gets easier to become concussed. And now you develop
Speaker 2: a pattern what effects not only your senses, but it
Speaker 2: affects who you are, your personality, which makes you much
Speaker 2: much more dangerous. And so we're starting to learn the
Speaker 2: effects much more of not just one or two a
Speaker 2: couple head traumas, but over the years repetitive head injuries,
Speaker 2: and especially the ones in a sport like soccer, which
Speaker 2: we love here in Cincinnati with a you know, we've
Speaker 2: got a major league soccer team, we've got a pipeline
Speaker 2: for kids to play, and no one's suggesting we should
Speaker 2: stop that, but you know, the repetitive micro traumas that
Speaker 2: kids have.
Speaker 1: We're starting to see some data.
Speaker 5: On this now, yes, sir, I mean when ct was
Speaker 5: found by doctor Omalu in two thousand and nine, it
Speaker 5: was found in fifty and sixty year old men. Well,
Speaker 5: now we're finding it in twenty and thirty year olds.
Speaker 5: As a matter of fact, quick story, I funded a
Speaker 5: study at Boston University because I challenged them on the
Speaker 5: evaluation of my son's brain for CTE. He did not
Speaker 5: have CTE, and I asked him, did you find structural damage?
Speaker 5: And then they asked me why, and they said, well, I
Speaker 5: wrote a book for parents, I read over one hundred
Speaker 5: couple hundred research papers, and you know, long story short,
Speaker 5: I am convinced that the structural damage is what's contributing
Speaker 5: to these mental illnesses. They went back and looked at
Speaker 5: every brain under thirty at the Unit Bank, NFL players,
Speaker 5: college players, and to children, the seventeen year olds that
Speaker 5: are up there like my son. What they found out
Speaker 5: was that one hundred percent of the brains had structural damage,
Speaker 5: one hundred percent of those brains had psychological disorders, and
Speaker 5: eighty percent of the diabuce suicide and overdose, even though
Speaker 5: only forty percent had CTE. So you're right, it is
Speaker 5: the continuous exposure that is the big problem here. Now,
Speaker 5: if our kids played, say you wait until fourteen, we
Speaker 5: recommend eighteen. You're an adult, you want to hurt yourself, smoke,
Speaker 5: do whatever you can make your decision. We'll never get
Speaker 5: contact sports out of high school.
Speaker 4: We know this.
Speaker 5: Or our compromise is if you wait till fourteen before
Speaker 5: you start, you play green safe sports, flag football, baseball, basketball, right,
Speaker 5: you can't avoid the occasional concussion. But then you start
Speaker 5: at fourteen and you just pick one sport and then
Speaker 5: you rest for the rest of the year. Play tiddley winks,
Speaker 5: play not play green sake sports. Study, you know, play
Speaker 5: your video games, go study, get ready for college. Right,
Speaker 5: you know, then you're ahead of the game, and you're
Speaker 5: probably going to be absolutely fine. Now, we do have
Speaker 5: kids that are with my son that started contact sports
Speaker 5: at fourteen, so there is a risk there, But they
Speaker 5: might have played excessively, they might have played way too much.
Speaker 5: But we know that if we wait till fourteen and
Speaker 5: we can just start taking the concussiveness out of our
Speaker 5: child's life, we give them a better chance. Personally, nowadays,
Speaker 5: I would say baseball, track and field, basketball, volleyball, all
Speaker 5: day long. Stay away from these things only because it's
Speaker 5: our children. Nobody wants to be in my shoes. But
Speaker 5: then when you're an adult, the same thing. You know,
Speaker 5: it's it's we these football players. I have NFL friends
Speaker 5: right now and they are all a mess man and
Speaker 5: they all do not let their kids play these sports.
Speaker 5: And if those folks are saying my kids ain't playing sports,
Speaker 5: and I absolutely support what your foundation's saying. They've lived it,
Speaker 5: they've walked the life, They've made money. They can't enjoy
Speaker 5: their life. They can't enjoy their money. They're having a
Speaker 5: horrible time with us in They tell me flat out
Speaker 5: that there is there is a huge problem with this
Speaker 5: in the NFL, with the with the retired players, and
Speaker 5: it's a shame.
Speaker 4: Man.
Speaker 5: They gave me my Sundays. I love my Sundays and
Speaker 5: my doritos. But it's not that you know, there's NHL players,
Speaker 5: rugby players, soccer players. Right now, a soccer player, a
Speaker 5: soccer ball hits ahead at one hundred and thirty miles
Speaker 5: an hour up to that's a massive joke, and we
Speaker 5: see them heading the balls all the time. I'm saying,
Speaker 5: it's just just some topics there, man.
Speaker 1: No, I youree hundred percent right.
Speaker 2: But I think in Bruce, I don't want to say
Speaker 2: this because of what you've been through with your son
Speaker 2: taking his own life and serving our country and seeing
Speaker 2: all the stuff firsthand. When it comes to repetitive concussive trauma,
Speaker 2: subconcussive subconcussive trauma is starting contact sports at fourteen, I
Speaker 2: don't know if there's ever going to happen. I don't
Speaker 2: think Grimmy'll put the toothpaste back in the two because
Speaker 2: of well, it starts with competitive dads and moms and
Speaker 2: they want their kid to be successful and get the scholarship,
Speaker 2: be a star, and the kid loves the sport and
Speaker 2: loves to play. My nephew grew up playing hockey. You
Speaker 2: couldn't get a stick out of his hand. He's at
Speaker 2: Miami University now. But I just don't see because there's
Speaker 2: so much money involved in you sports and contact you sports.
Speaker 2: I don't see that ever changing.
Speaker 5: I don't think it. I think it will change as
Speaker 5: the as the effects become more known and parents are
Speaker 5: more and well, right now you have parents that are
Speaker 5: non informed, saying yeah, put a hockey stick, put a
Speaker 5: helmet in the kid's head, lit him play hockey, and
Speaker 5: start checking at eleven I think is eleven to twelve
Speaker 5: is the age they start checking. Well, remember that prefrontal
Speaker 5: cortext that the CEO of the brain doesn't start developing
Speaker 5: till fourteen. That's why scientifically we asked that parents wait
Speaker 5: till then, because without a functioning prefuntal cortex, you have
Speaker 5: a dysfunctional adult guarantee. So you know, if you want
Speaker 5: to take that risk and you think that Jimmy's going
Speaker 5: to be playing in the NHL and being on a
Speaker 5: weedy box, all right, go for it, Okay, but you're
Speaker 5: harming your children. And that's why we're pushing for formed consent.
Speaker 5: So if you know you're doing it, that's on you.
Speaker 5: But you as a parent, if you had the option
Speaker 5: of playing hockey or playing soccer without hitting the ball,
Speaker 5: or baseball or a sport that you knew in your
Speaker 5: heart of hearts was not going to jeopardize the future
Speaker 5: of your child, that what sport would you pick that?
Speaker 5: And that's what we're saying now, we're pushing for in
Speaker 5: formed consents. You know, that's all. You know.
Speaker 6: It's not a fan, but you're right.
Speaker 2: And I think personally, I think the thing is this,
Speaker 2: it's kind of like social media so to up in
Speaker 2: the last twenty or fifteen years, and we didn't know
Speaker 2: anything of it. Now we're starting to see because we're
Speaker 2: starting to see results of this and why it's bad.
Speaker 2: And now we're starting to take phones away from kids
Speaker 2: in classrooms, which I think is great. We you know,
Speaker 2: anything new is going to have upside and downside. And
Speaker 2: it's only been what since two thousand and nine we've
Speaker 2: learned about CTE and really started taking seriously and starting
Speaker 2: to understand the brain. And I think in a generation
Speaker 2: of what you're talking about is going to come to
Speaker 2: fruition because my parents are going to go, hey, if
Speaker 2: the data is in, it's inconclusive, it's unconclusive. I mean
Speaker 2: it's conclusive rather than unconclusive, and I'm not gonna let
Speaker 2: my son or daughter to play this. And I think
Speaker 2: it's start to see youth sports change because of the
Speaker 2: work you're doing, Bruce Parkman, Youth contact sports, understanding the
Speaker 2: hidden risks of mental illness from early exposure to concussive trauma.
Speaker 2: If your kid plays sports, you got to check this out.
Speaker 2: And again, thanks again for the time, Bruce, all the.
Speaker 5: Best, Hey, thank you so much. You remember sure that
Speaker 5: we did. The book I wrote is free for any
Speaker 5: parent that wants to Just contact the Mac Parkman Foundation
Speaker 5: and will send them a digital copy and they can
Speaker 5: make the decision.
Speaker 2: For their child that they exactly one and I'll get
Speaker 2: The website is MP fact dot com.
Speaker 1: MP fact dot com. Bruce, thanks again, man all right,
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Blash.
Speaker 5: You take care. I'll come back anytime.
Speaker 6: Talk care.
Speaker 2: Keep it at sports related, Thanks Bruce, Sarah day off
Speaker 2: today with Marti Groo. Happened last night, so we're chasing
Speaker 2: recovery mode as it is. Tom Runneman so I think
Speaker 2: John John for that matter, I am here. I'm toughing
Speaker 2: it out Willie on the way AFTERNOWS on the home
Speaker 2: of those red seven hundred www.
Speaker 1: Cincinnati