1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: This is the Mark Madden Show. I am Mark Madden. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:08,239 Speaker 1: You probably figured that out already. The number to call 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: is eight three three four one two w XDX, or 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: you can do what the cool kids do and follow 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: me on Twitter at Mark Madden X. As I mentioned 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: to JB, the thing with youth and how many young 7 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: kids you keep. The youth needs to take over the 8 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: dressing room immediately. That's a big thing. That youthful energy. 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: And don't misconstrue Crosby Malkin and La Tang deserve every 10 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: inch of respect, but they can't provide that new spark, 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: that freshness, new guy energy, rookie energy, big time for 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: the first time. Energy rebuilding just isn't talent and systems 13 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: and coaching and with the old out what the new. 14 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: It's not that simple. It's also mental and emotional and 15 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: buzz and energy, and it's accepting that it ain't gonna 16 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: produce what you want right now. 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: But you got to try to win every game you can. 18 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: Right now, and you've got to construct the foundation for 19 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: the big picture. It's not just start over, add more 20 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: and more good players. Like I said, energy, mental, emotional, buzz, youth, 21 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: it's all part of rebuilding. I've been around the Penguins 22 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 1: since day one, and I remember when seid Gino, Furry 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: Latang and Stall arrived, and certainly those are unbelievably talented 24 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: players and led to Stanley Cupps. Just the talent, but 25 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: it was the energy of a talbit also and Tyler Kennedy. 26 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: Everything changed, not just the roster, the room change, the 27 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: attitude changed, the energy change. There's that word again. And 28 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: no matter how bad it gets this year, and it might. 29 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: No matter how bad it gets this year, I've seen 30 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: worse nineteen eighty four, but not just nineteen eighty four. 31 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: And it took a while, but nineteen eighty four and 32 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: finishing last and drafting Mario obviously laid the foundation for 33 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: every single good thing that's happened since. I like the 34 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,839 Speaker 1: energy of these young guys, not just the guys who 35 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: could be stars, but bros. Hayes, who's gonna join us 36 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: a little bit. Hallander is a sleeper obviously, Coyvenon McGroarty 37 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: when he gets back, Brunick if he stays, or when. 38 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 2: He gets here morishof when he gets here, the foundation 39 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: is being built. 40 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: I watched hockey, this team my whole life I know 41 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: for sure the foundation is being built. And like I 42 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: said yesterday, if the Pengans have to win for you 43 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: to be a fan, then piss up a rope, because 44 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: then you're not really a fan. All I want is 45 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: a plan, Kyle Dubis has one. All I want is 46 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: a foundation that's being built. All I want is an improvement, 47 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: and I see it already. But there's many a slip 48 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: TwixT cup and lip if they're doing the right thing, 49 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: but nothing's guaranteed. And you gotta get that star prospected forward. 50 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 1: You got the star defensive with Brunick, you got the 51 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: star goalie with more shop. 52 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 2: You need that forward. 53 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: Your Penguin thoughts at eight three three four one two 54 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: w xdx. That's a three to three four one two 55 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: w xdx. We got Avery Hayes the Penguin rookie in 56 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: about ten minutes. Uh, we've been talking too much about 57 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: the Pirates because it's the Steelers bye week. We've been 58 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: talking about trading Mitch Keller. That's gonna be the Buckos 59 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: big move, although not big enough because they won't get 60 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: enough in return. They'll get like a Spencer Horwitz level 61 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: bat you watch, that's all they'll get. 62 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: But can you. 63 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: Imagine how happy Mitch Keller is gonna be to go 64 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: like anywhere else? 65 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: It'll be euphoria. 66 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: It'll be like dropping ecstasy and then tacking on a 67 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: little iowas you got from Aaron Rodgers, because anywhere else. 68 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 2: But picture of the Pirates would be better. 69 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: I was thinking about who the anonymous pirate was in 70 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: Noah Hiles' story, the guy that ripped the organization. It 71 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: wouldn't be a low paid bum, because you'd only get 72 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: a job with the Pirates. The way the Pirates are 73 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: run benefits a low paid bum getting a minimum major 74 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: league pay day. So since it's not a low paid bum, 75 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: it wipes out almost the entire roster. Keller and Reynolds 76 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: are the likeliest guys to have spewed the Hiles. Maybe 77 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: Cutch or fam but I doubt it. Eh Cuts, Yeah, 78 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: but he's two walled. He's lucky to have a job. 79 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: And like I said earlier, if the Pirates are serious 80 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: moving forward, they don't bring Cuts back. If they bring 81 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: them back, it's nostalgia at the expensive trying to win. 82 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: Then again, Cuts mightn't be almost totally immobile, but he's 83 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: better than Jacksonwinski. 84 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 2: So Winsky hit like what one hundred? He was so far. 85 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: Below the Mendoza line he couldn't even see Mendoza. So, 86 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: like I said, most likely Kellyer Reynolds, that that Mitch Keller, 87 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: Brian Reynolds who talked to Hyles maybe cuts fans to 88 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: Shirley to try to well, I don't know, I don't know. 89 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: That's the kind of stuff a Surley guy would say. 90 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: Nick Gonzalez is a long shot. I don't know why, 91 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,039 Speaker 1: but I think that Skeins is a long shot. And 92 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: that's it. That's the list. But I always find the 93 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: off the record quotes intriguing because I like to guess 94 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: who'd done it, and those are my best guesses. As 95 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: far as you've done it with pickleball, well anybody can 96 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: do it. 97 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 2: Here's a great Babylon b headline. 98 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: Are you an unathletic, oh who gets winded going up 99 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: a flight of stairs? Why pickleball might be for you? Now? 100 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: I am an unathletic. Well, I wouldn't say that there 101 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: was a time, but I'm an oath I do get 102 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: winded going up a single flight of stairs. But my 103 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: hatred and disrespect for pickleball will never diminish. It is unathletic. 104 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: It's tennis for lazy people. It's table tennis if you're 105 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:26,480 Speaker 1: standing on the table. And I will keep reminding everyone 106 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: of that indefinitely, because I think somebody should. 107 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: I think it's owed to society. I got an email. 108 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: I got a couple nerds who email me constantly, and 109 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: they're real hateful, and they're mostly pirate fans. And this 110 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: one nerd pointed out, even if they trade Keller, they 111 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 1: got a playoff level rotation. Yeah, you're quoting me in 112 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: what I said in the two o'clock hour. You know, 113 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: Skins and Chandler, Obao, Ashcraft, Barcoe Burrows, Jared Jones if 114 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: he's okay, Yeah, yeah, they do have a playoff caliber rotation. 115 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 2: They had one this year and lost ninety one games. 116 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: I'm next gonna talk to Penguin's rookie Avery Hayes here 117 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: on the Mark Madden Show. This is the Home of 118 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: the Penguins one oh five ninety X, The Wie Show, 119 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: Mark Madden all the Pens to bring the duck tape 120 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: type of affairs. 121 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 3: What's not gonna make us play a wild game? It's 122 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 3: not faris not far. It's not fair. 123 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: The exit one O five nine. 124 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: Now it's made an impression of Penguins Camp. He's twenty 125 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: two year old winger Avery Hayes. Avery, thank you for 126 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: joining me. Like I said, you're you're quite the hit 127 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: of camp people are talking about. I see headlines with 128 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: your name in him. How'd you make all that happen? 129 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, hey, Mirk, how's it going? Thanks for having me? 130 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 4: And I don't know. I'm just trying to take it 131 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 4: one day at a time, have fun and enjoy loll 132 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 4: at last and hopefully last for a long time, So 133 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 4: we'll see how it goes. 134 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: Is this a nervous time for you? A guy on 135 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: the right near the final cutdown? How do you handle that? 136 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 4: I wouldn't say it's a nervous time. I mean, there's 137 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 4: definitely times where it gets a little stressful, but you 138 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 4: just have to believe that everything happens for a reason 139 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 4: and I just got to control what I can, which 140 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 4: is my performance on the ice and the type of 141 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 4: guy I am in the locker room, the type of 142 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 4: team that I am. So I wouldn't say it's a 143 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 4: nervous time, but it's an exciting time for sure. 144 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: Well, some guys are gone and you're still here. That's 145 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: a real good thing, right, Yeah, I mean. 146 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 4: I guess trying to stay as long as I can. So, 147 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 4: I mean, I'm just trying my best to give the 148 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 4: coaches a tough decision to make and we'll see what 149 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 4: happens from there. 150 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:35,959 Speaker 1: Now, you like to stir it up, be a thorn 151 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: in the other team's side. What's your preferred meth that 152 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: of doing that? How do you get the other team 153 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: to kind of get flustered? 154 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? 155 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 4: I mean I enjoy being like kind of a rat 156 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 4: on the ice. I feel like if there's games where 157 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 4: I'm kind of feeling a bit out of it, I 158 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 4: always have better rely on and it keeps me involved. 159 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 4: But I don't know, I just like getting stopping in 160 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 4: front of the net after a whistler or something, smiling 161 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 4: at him. They usually piss them off pretty well, which 162 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 4: makes me happy and feels good to get under their skin. 163 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 4: I feel like any advantage you can get, I enjoy getting. 164 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 3: So it's nice. 165 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: Who's the best rat and hockey right now? Who's like 166 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: your role model for doing that? 167 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 4: So, I mean, well, Brad Marsham's probably there. 168 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 2: You go, bingo That's what I was gonna say. 169 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 4: He's been he's been the best at that for a while, so, 170 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 4: I mean he's any any team would take him, and 171 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 4: every team hates him. So it's pretty funny. And I say, 172 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 4: Travis Connecting is another pretty good one. 173 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 2: Now, how do you get to play that way? Avery? 174 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 2: To be a guy that causes a rock this year? 175 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: Born with it? When did you start doing it? 176 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 4: I Mean I have three younger brothers, so my whole life, 177 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 4: I feel like I've kind of just been annoying them 178 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 4: and frustrating them and anything we do. And I always 179 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 4: find that fine, just getting them their skin. So that's 180 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 4: probably probably the biggest thing. 181 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: Now here's a cliched question, but still an interesting one. 182 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: What's it like to be on the ice in camp 183 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: with Crosby, Malkin, mctang, Carlson, a bunch of Halls of famers, 184 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: all those big names. 185 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 4: No, yeah, it's it's surreal the first time. I mean 186 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 4: it's pretty like you get you get starstruck, but then 187 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 4: you just gotta remember you just gotta go out there 188 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 4: and play because you got to. You gotta make an 189 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,479 Speaker 4: impression for yourself. And yeah, that one, that one preseason 190 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 4: game when Flury was in the nut too. We me 191 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 4: and a couple of the younger guys on the bench 192 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 4: who are looking around when Cosby lutang Ross Kyleson walkin 193 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 4: flurry around the ice like it was. It was pretty surreal. 194 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 4: We all grew up watching those guys and it's been 195 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 4: really cool to learn from them. 196 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: What's your interaction been like with those guys, you know, 197 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: one on one, like in the locker room stuff like that. 198 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: Are those guys very open in terms of being conversational. 199 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 4: Yeah, they're They're unbelievable. I mean, they're just as good 200 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 4: of guys, if not better, as there are players, which 201 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 4: is pretty crazy to say about them with how talented 202 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 4: they are. And yeah, they're amazing with all the younger guys. 203 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 4: If we have any questions, they aren't afraid to ask 204 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 4: and they'll just talk to us like we're normal guys, 205 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 4: which is really nice. So they make it really easy 206 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 4: for us. 207 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: Now, you won too Ontario Hockey League championships in junior way. 208 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: That's obviously a great experience in and of itself, but 209 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: how do you look that experience now in trying to 210 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: advance your pro career. 211 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was really cool. It was a really big 212 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 4: experience for me, and that helped me a lot with 213 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 4: my career. And I mean, just that feeling of winning 214 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 4: is something that I always it's addicting. Once you feel 215 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 4: it once, you want to have it every season. So 216 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 4: that's kind of just keeps me hungry. And yeah, I 217 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 4: mean it's made me to play a m today. It 218 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 4: makes me just want to do all the little things 219 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 4: that maybe aren't the prettiest, but they result in winning. 220 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 4: So I'm willing to do whatever it takes to win. 221 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 4: And I feel like that's the biggest thing that I 222 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 4: learned from those two years. 223 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: Now, you had kind of a breakthrough your Wilkes Barre 224 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 1: scrant last year put up some numbers. 225 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: What triggered that? How did your game mature in terms 226 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 2: of production? 227 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, the year before, I thought I got a really 228 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 4: good camp, and then I kind of got hit with 229 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 4: an injury ten games in and I missed quite a 230 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 4: bit of time, which kind of stung. But I got 231 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 4: to work on a ton of things that year, and 232 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 4: then I got to take all those things into the 233 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 4: off season for the previous summer and then yeah, last year, 234 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 4: I started off I was kind of in and out 235 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 4: of the lineup to start, I thought I had a 236 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 4: good camp before, which I was kind of frustrating, but 237 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 4: I just tried to stay positive, be a good teammate 238 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 4: and then slowly started getting opportunity more as year went on, 239 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 4: and just kind of kind of ran with it. And 240 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 4: now he was playing with great players too, which helps 241 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 4: the time, and the coach has trusted me, So that 242 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 4: was probably the two biggest things. 243 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: Now, you went undrafted, Does that put a chip on 244 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: a young guy's shoulder. 245 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I remember the feeling when I didn't 246 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 4: get drafted. That will always sit with me. It was 247 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 4: one of the more frustrating days of my life because 248 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 4: I thought I was a good enough player. But yeah, 249 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 4: the next couple of days after that, we're pretty sad. 250 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 4: But then I realized, like, no one's gonna feel bad 251 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 4: for me, So I just got to pick myself up 252 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 4: and just use out as fuel for the next couple 253 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,079 Speaker 4: of years. And so far it's been good and hopefull 254 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 4: I can keep it going. 255 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: What's Dan Muse like as a head coach, because you 256 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: know it's the first year with him for everybody here, 257 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: and he has quite a reputation as a teacher, and 258 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:47,239 Speaker 1: a developer. 259 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, he's he's been honestly so good to all of us, 260 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 4: and especially all of us young guys, because I mean, 261 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 4: for some of us, you have the nerves and stuff 262 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 4: coming in and he makes it so easy, like always 263 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 4: open the questions from and he's super good with explaining 264 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 4: the video and we'll go over every single drone practice 265 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 4: before so we never have any questions about that. And 266 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 4: then on the bench he's super high energy during practice, 267 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 4: he's super high energy. So I mean he's been awesome 268 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 4: so far. 269 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: Obviously, like we'll know where you're playing at least for now, 270 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: you know, within probably twenty four to forty eight ours, Avery, 271 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:20,559 Speaker 1: But what are your goals for this season? I mean, 272 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: you want to stay here, but I'm sure just improving 273 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: is is right at the forefront. 274 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I'm still young player, so yeah, I'm 275 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 4: just excited to get better in every category and obviously 276 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 4: my goal is here at the Penguin So we'll see 277 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 4: what happens. 278 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: Avery, Thank you for taking a time. Good job at camp, 279 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: And I got to tell you, guys like you are 280 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: valuable here. We've not had enough of them. So if 281 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: we don't see it for Game one, I bet we 282 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: see you soon. 283 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 4: I also thank you very much. 284 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 3: I agreet that. 285 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: That's Avery Hayes, Penguin's rookie. Will he make it? Will 286 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 2: he not? 287 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 1: I'll guarantee this. He gonna play here this year, Gonna 288 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: play here a lot. Maybe not Game one, But you 289 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: need guys like that, at that youthful energy I'm talking 290 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: about on and off the ice in the dressing room. 291 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: Avery Hayes personifies it. He'd be a great bottom six, 292 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: better than some old, washed up guy stealing a paycheck. 293 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 1: Not to be critical, Tim Ben's up next. One oh 294 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: five nine. One oh five nine d X has your 295 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: shot at extra cash because we're nice. 296 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: Thirteen times a day, nine am through nine pm, The 297 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: X will give you the keyword at the top of 298 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: every hour. Enterate at wxdx. 299 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: Dot com and you could win one thousand dollars jesting 300 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: you can spread it on the bed and roll around 301 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: at one. 302 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 2: Thousand dollars or whatever is your money. Listen all day 303 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 2: for your chance had some extra cash on one oh 304 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 2: five nine The X. If you can't get enough. 305 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: If you're Pittsburgh Steelers, then check out the latest podcast 306 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: from Steelers Nation Radio, a part of the Steelers Audio 307 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: Network hundreds of hours. 308 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 2: Of excludius Mark Madden. Damn it, I'll be popular at 309 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 2: Pittsburgh yet, Hey, fan, I think I gotta start with 310 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 2: pull pork, nachos, fantastic. 311 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 3: The X at one oh five nine. 312 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 2: Steelers have a biele. 313 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: You been joining me now to talk about the Black 314 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: and Gold from the trib It's Tim Bentz. 315 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 2: Tim. 316 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: If the Steelers win their next two games, will they 317 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: win the division? That's kind of what I'm predicting, or 318 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: at the very least they'll be in first place come December. 319 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 3: That's a really good potential to the last part of 320 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 3: it is anyway, Mark, I think the caveat too, that is, 321 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 3: if their turn at injury for a quarterback comes later 322 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 3: in the season, whereas everybody else in the division is 323 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 3: dealing with it now, that could flip the tables. But 324 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 3: for the time being, if they were to get off 325 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 3: to a five to one start with three wins of 326 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 3: the division, I mean, what more can you ask for 327 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 3: before they get to Baltimore, who, by that point, like 328 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 3: you said in early December, might be getting healthy by them. 329 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 3: I made the comment going into the game against Minnesota. 330 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 3: Should the Steelers emerge three and one, and the Ravens 331 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 3: emerge one in three after that game they had against 332 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 3: Kansas City, And I gave you one hundred dollars, Bill, 333 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 3: who would you bet on to still the playoffs if 334 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 3: only one could make it. I would have been on 335 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 3: the Ravens at that point still, But now knowing that 336 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 3: Jackson being hurt for an extended period of time, that 337 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 3: changes the calculus on the whole thing. 338 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: Well, Baltimore, like you said, one and three, their schedule 339 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: will get ease here. Jackson will return eventually. But even 340 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: beyond Jackson, they're beat up in addition, and their defense. 341 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 2: Just looks bad. 342 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: It just looks like just I didn't expect they Their 343 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: personnel is so good, damn, that might be the best 344 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: roster in football went healthy. 345 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 3: But what they have right now is not that. I mean, 346 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 3: they're still banged up. It's starting to look like the 347 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 3: version of the team that came here late in that 348 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,320 Speaker 3: twenty twenty COVID season mark with so many backups that 349 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 3: they'll be riding in. Then again, a similar version of 350 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 3: an NFL team that was like that just won a 351 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 3: division game last night with what the forty nine ers 352 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,119 Speaker 3: managed to do against the Los Angeles Rams. 353 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 2: Great coach, that's why. 354 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 3: That's part of it. Yeah, and maybe when Kenny Pickett 355 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 3: gets traded again, he can get traded there and work 356 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,240 Speaker 3: the real quarterback coach. They can get something out of them. 357 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: What are your expectations for Dylan Gabriel in his first 358 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 1: start for Cleveland on Sunday versus Minnesota at London, and 359 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: presumably he starts against the Steelers the week after as well. 360 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, not much for his banged up as Minnesota is. 361 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 3: And I know they're like flying in free agents overseas 362 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 3: just to get them, get some run, some burn and practice. 363 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 3: You know, that's the defense that can still force some 364 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 3: turnovers and get after the passer. You so what they 365 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 3: did the interior of the Steelers line a few times 366 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 3: in that game over in Ireland. Now, you know, it's 367 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 3: a compressed work week. It's an odd work week for 368 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 3: him to start and begin his NFL career under center. 369 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 3: I think Minnesota wins that game, and I don't expect 370 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,400 Speaker 3: it to be particularly pretty on offense for Cleveland. 371 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: I expect Pittsburgh to be Cleveland as well. But when 372 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 1: the expectations are so obvious for the Steelers, that's when 373 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: the trouble usually starts, and with Miles Garren that defense, 374 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 1: Cleveland always has a puncher's stance. 375 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 2: They just aren't going to win enough, for sure. 376 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 3: And the Steelers have continued to be very good against 377 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 3: Cleveland at home. They've had lots of problems on the 378 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 3: road lately against the Browns up there. That's become a 379 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 3: bit of a house of horrors for them in recent seasons. So, 380 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 3: you know, I tend to agree that it's going to 381 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 3: be a grimy, tight, low scoring game when they see 382 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 3: the Browns the first game after their bye, and we'll 383 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 3: see what sort of shape the Browns are in, what 384 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 3: they're thinking is at quarterback by that point, I don't know. 385 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 3: I mean, it's impossible to judge mark what the Browns 386 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 3: ever thinking on anything, let alone quarterbacks. But I would 387 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 3: think the Steelers would go in rightful favorites in that game. 388 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,479 Speaker 3: But your point is well taken that when things go 389 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 3: awry for the Steelers, they tend to go a ride 390 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 3: at beyond oddest times, Like, for instance, that twenty twenty 391 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 3: three season, they were sitting pretty at seven and four 392 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 3: going into their schedule after Thanksgiving and they were looking 393 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 3: at Arizona New England and Indianapolis for three straight weeks, 394 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 3: and they lost all three games before they went to 395 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 3: Mason Rudolph. So that's just emblematic of what we've gotten 396 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 3: used to seeing in the post Super Bowl stretch of 397 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 3: the Tomlin era. 398 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: I thought the defense was very good at Dublin for 399 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: three quarters, but it got confused in the secondary when 400 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: Ramsey went out and look at that long catch and 401 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: run by Addison. I'm assuming that was Chuck Kark's fault, 402 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: but nobody will confirm it. 403 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 3: Sounded like Terrell Austin just wanted to, you know, take 404 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 3: blame for that himself. That's okay, Yeah, and maybe he 405 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 3: was right, you know, maybe he shouldn't have called something 406 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 3: as complex as that in that situation where the simplest 407 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 3: thing in the world is just keep everything in front 408 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 3: of you, and if you have some sort of signal 409 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 3: that goes goes in that could be confused for anything 410 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,640 Speaker 3: besides that, then there's a problem. Like everybody else, I'm 411 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 3: fatigued with the communication issue. Excuse. We've heard that a 412 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 3: million times over. It's not just the Steelers who presented, 413 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 3: It's a lot of teams. When there are blown coverages. 414 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 3: Secondary but few are blown in his obvious manners as 415 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,959 Speaker 3: what we saw there from the Steelers in that situation, 416 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 3: with that much field to cover, with that score on 417 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 3: the scoreboard, in time on the clock. It just slaps 418 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 3: you in the face and you have to put it 419 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 3: into part of the greater consideration for how that game went, 420 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 3: because as easy as it is to say, oh, well, 421 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,120 Speaker 3: the defense is really good except for that one flukey play, well, okay, 422 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 3: then the passing game only generated one hundred and twenty 423 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 3: yards aside from the one play where dk metcalf went 424 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 3: for eighty. Like, we can play that game if you 425 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:33,919 Speaker 3: want to, or you can just say the score was 426 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 3: what the score was because the players actually happened. 427 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: We're talking to Tim Ben's broad to us by Calucy 428 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 1: Chevrolet serving the Pittsburgh area for one hundred and seven years. 429 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 2: Tim, it was a weird game for Tomlin. 430 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: I thought he clearly coached Kevin O'Connell for the first 431 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: three quarters, and it pains me physically to say that, 432 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: but in the fourth quarter he lived in his fears 433 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,120 Speaker 1: and brought Minnesota back in the game. 434 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 3: It was really weird. It's kind of a microcosm of 435 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 3: a lot of things that we talk about with Tomlin 436 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 3: and have talked about for years, where there's sort of 437 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 3: a bold, brash, in your face nature about how he 438 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 3: wants to be perceived as a coach. But then when 439 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 3: it comes to the nuts and bolts of what the 440 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 3: decision making is, it's actually quite conservative. 441 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 2: I mean, like going forward on it's called gaslighting. 442 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 3: Going forward on fourth down, but then running is the 443 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 3: ultimate of that example. You can't get more Tomlin than that. 444 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 3: Look at me, I'm gonna pound my chest and go 445 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 3: for it. I'm not gonna live in my fears, but 446 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 3: I'm gonna do it really cautiously. In a worst case scenario, 447 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 3: Minnesota just has to go ninety nine yards and we 448 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 3: didn't risk throwing the ball in the end zone. I mean, 449 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 3: that's Tomlin in a nutshell. And then even on the 450 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 3: ensuing situation where they were looking at a fourth down 451 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 3: and they decide to punt it and then blast it 452 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,120 Speaker 3: through the back of the end zone, I don't get 453 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 3: any of that. That's not even so much a dichotomy 454 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 3: of thinking and of strategy. That's just a mistake. I 455 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 3: don't know why you do that. I don't know why 456 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 3: you're afraid to yield field position, but then you automatically 457 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 3: yield twenty of the forty yards by having the punter 458 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 3: kicked the ball to the end zone. There was just 459 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 3: a lot of strategic incongruous thinking there. 460 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 1: In my estimation, Tim, this isn't the offense at all 461 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 1: I expected to see. The top two tight ends have 462 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: been minimized. They're very often using six offensive lineman. 463 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 2: Why is that. I'm not saying it's bad, I am 464 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 2: saying it's odd. 465 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 3: Using the sixth offensive lineman worked out to their benefit 466 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 3: against Minnesota. I guess they like the matchup on the 467 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 3: edges in that regard. Good for them. That might go 468 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 3: to your point earlier mark about how they schemed up 469 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 3: and coached up a good game. I imagine that would 470 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 3: have been the thinking for Warren as opposed to gain 471 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 3: Well too. I can't see why it would be any different. 472 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 3: Warren ran that well with the extra guy out there, 473 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 3: good for him. You just can't count on that every week. 474 00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 3: That was a career high for him in attempts and yards. 475 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 3: That appears to be an outlier. You can't keep trying 476 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 3: to pump that well. And I hope they don't. The 477 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 3: offense is just said. It's not exactly the offense that 478 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,200 Speaker 3: you expect to see. I don't see much offense at all. 479 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 3: There's not much to it. I mean, they have a 480 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 3: very odd stat pack when you look at it. I 481 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 3: mean they're twenty ninth and total yards they're second from last, 482 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 3: and rushing yards per game there's something like twenty sixth 483 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 3: or fifth, and passing yards per game. And yet there 484 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,479 Speaker 3: they are right in the middle of the pack at 485 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 3: twenty four points per game, which is pretty much league average. 486 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 3: The two reasons for that. Number One, they have a 487 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 3: field goal kicker that can kick from any distance, so 488 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 3: that makes up three points at a time where their 489 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 3: teams might have to punt. Two, they've been really good 490 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 3: in the red zone, so any chance they get their 491 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 3: largely scoring touchdowns. And three, they're defense and special teams 492 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 3: with turnovers and set them up with some pretty short fields, 493 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 3: so they haven't had to go as far. That's why 494 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 3: they've managed to get by without very much offensive yardage. 495 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 3: But that's a very tenuous formula that I don't think 496 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 3: you can count on once you get by these two 497 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 3: divisional foes that seem to be limping with quarterback situations 498 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 3: that are difficult of their own. On the other sideline, 499 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 3: in Cleveland and Baltimore coming out see me be Cleveland 500 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 3: and Cincinnati coming out of the by. 501 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: Should gain One Herbig become starters at least get more 502 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: snaps than the guys playing it well, that would have 503 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: made them starters. But I think gain Will should be 504 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 1: the number one back, and I think Herbi should at 505 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: least split snaps with high Smith. 506 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 3: I think the latter is easier to pull off than 507 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 3: the former. Yes, just because Herbig is so gifted when 508 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 3: it comes to rushing the passer, and if they do 509 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 3: their job on first and second down, it's like, you know, 510 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 3: I don't think it's going to quite get to this. 511 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 3: This is a hyperbolic example to throw out there, but 512 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 3: I'll do it just to prove the point. Like Casey 513 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 3: Hampton was so good at his job, he played himself 514 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 3: off the field, right, Like because he was so good 515 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 3: a stuff in the run, he was barely ever out 516 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 3: there because towards the short stages of his career, you know, right, 517 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 3: And maybe that's what high Smith is. Maybe high Smith 518 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 3: is good enough against the run, and they get better 519 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 3: against the run that the other team is forced into 520 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 3: pure passing situations and they use more her Big since 521 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 3: he seems to be pretty gifted as a pass rusher. 522 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 3: The other one that you advanced, the other example on 523 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 3: the offensive side of the ball. You know, I'm not 524 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 3: wild still about the notion that gain Weell comes on 525 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 3: the field to spell Warren on third down. 526 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,160 Speaker 1: They're the same back. Lauren's a great third down back. 527 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:31,159 Speaker 1: That's his role to me. 528 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's replication of skill sets, which is weird, which 529 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 3: is why it's. 530 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: Because they've already decided they hate Caleb Johnson not long 531 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: after drafting him in the third round. 532 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, this this notion that they've come to already that 533 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 3: he's behind in the learning curve, and he's done nothing 534 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 3: to disprove that. Unfortunately, he's the guy who could put 535 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 3: in there in first and second down, then play either 536 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 3: of those two guys on third down, and then maybe 537 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 3: the snap distribution is even between Johnson and whoever the 538 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 3: best second the second back is the third down back. 539 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 3: That'll be fine, But Johnson so far behind the curve, 540 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 3: you can't do that. And then, like I said, you 541 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 3: got two guys who are very samy in their skill 542 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 3: sets between Warren and Gainwell. I just think there's more 543 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 3: explosion in Warren. I would have been very curious to 544 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 3: see how Warren would have run behind that offensive line 545 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 3: approach against Minnesota, but now we'll never know. 546 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 2: And edge Rusher Kim. 547 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: I like Jack Sawyer too, and it makes me wonder 548 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: if Alex Heisman is becoming obsolete with all his soft 549 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: tissue injuries, which might reflect on his lack of conditioning. 550 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what's going on with him in 551 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,439 Speaker 3: the injuries. He doesn't strike me as a guy who's 552 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 3: not dedicated or not physically fit. I don't know. It's 553 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 3: just bad luck, body tie at chemistry, whatever. It's just 554 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 3: been too much lately. Sawyer, I think there's potential there. 555 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 3: I think they look at Sawyer and hope he can 556 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,880 Speaker 3: be with Demarvin Leal never became, which is pass rush 557 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 3: capable and edge set capable guy who can swing between 558 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 3: both those positions and maybe turn them into more of 559 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 3: a truer four man front as opposed to the art. 560 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 3: I say this at the old school three four approach 561 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 3: and look that we've gotten used to. He can be 562 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 3: a swing guy in that context. They kind of hope 563 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 3: Leo would do that he never turned into that. Maybe 564 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 3: Sawyer can, but he's got to disengage from blocks two. 565 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 3: You know, he's not exactly great at that skill either yet, 566 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 3: as has been the case for a lot of the Steelers' front, 567 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 3: which is why they've had so much trouble against the 568 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 3: run prior to last week against Minnesota. 569 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 1: Uh, Tim, before we let you go, what's your take 570 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: on this City Console woman? Wanting to discuss things with 571 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 1: Bob Nutting. Bob Nutting has every single shred of leverage. 572 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 1: He doesn't have to change what he does on Iota 573 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: and City Console the Sea. 574 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 2: MLB can do nothing about. 575 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 3: It right until the new lease agreement comes around. Like 576 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,719 Speaker 3: to me, this sounds like saber rattling and grand standing politically, 577 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 3: that's what it is. You know, when the new lease 578 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 3: comes around, if you want to bake in some sort 579 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 3: of proposal or condition of what you've got to put 580 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 3: back into the major league team, then so be it. 581 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 3: Good luck with that, whether it's Nutting or whoever you 582 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 3: would decide to sell to. But I think mark the 583 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 3: only arbiter that comes into play as to how Nutting 584 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 3: runs his team will be the Major League rules under 585 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 3: which he operates unless those change significantly with the CBA 586 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 3: in twenty twenty seven. I don't see what motivation there 587 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 3: is for him to run things any differently. You know. 588 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 3: I keep hearing some apologists the team say, well, he's 589 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 3: not making any money. Well, if he's not making any money, 590 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 3: then why is he doing it for the thrill of 591 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 3: competition and finishing fifth every year? He's obviously doing this 592 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 3: for business purposes and based on the terms of the 593 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 3: agreement in the league in which he operates his team 594 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 3: and the building in which that team operates, He's in 595 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 3: a cord, whether we like it or not. I don't 596 00:28:58,360 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 3: know how that gets changed. 597 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: What would the Pirates get when they trade Mitch Keller 598 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: besides not enough, because I think that's going to be 599 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 1: their big move this offseason and their only moves of significance. 600 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 3: If I were to. 601 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 5: Say a slightly below top tier for that organization, like 602 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 5: a top eleven Ish prospect and a Spencer Horowitz type 603 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 5: that great. 604 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: Minds think alike, because I said exactly that Spencer Horowitz, 605 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: they'll get the Mitch Keller equivalent of. 606 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 3: A hitter, yeah, sort of. And I think that's to 607 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 3: say they get two guys like that would be optimistic. 608 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 3: And you know, because Horrorward's finished fairly strong, I think 609 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 3: people will talk themselves into meaning that that'll be more 610 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 3: than what it really will turn out to be in 611 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 3: terms of production and swinging the pendulum. But you know 612 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 3: what resonates in my ear mark is going back to 613 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 3: that Wednesday night game before the end of the season 614 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 3: in Cincinnati, when Skiing's secured being beneath a two era, 615 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 3: he gets pulled. I'm driving home from doing a show 616 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 3: on Fox Sports Pittsburgh nine seventy and I'm listening to 617 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 3: John Wayner in the baseball broadcast on their flagship, and 618 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 3: he's just incredulous, like gobsmacked, looking at the Reds, seeing 619 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 3: as how they'd been shut down two nights in a 620 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 3: row by Pirate pitching and saying, this team can make 621 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,680 Speaker 3: the playoffs with eighty four wins. And he was wrong. 622 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 3: That team made the playoffs with eighty three wins. It's 623 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 3: not hard to make the Major League Baseball playoffs anymore. 624 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 3: You just got to be a little above five hundred. 625 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 3: But the Pirates still feel a million miles away because 626 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 3: it's a few million dollars away to do even that. 627 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 2: Oh, it's more than a few million away. 628 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: But I get you, and like the latest volley I'm 629 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: hearing from fans is, well they can trade Keller and 630 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 1: then still have a playoff caliber rotation. Well, they had 631 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 1: a playoff caliber rotation this year and lost ninety one games. 632 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 3: Well did they leave? I can't. I don't know how 633 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 3: far back you would have to go to research this 634 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 3: or what you know, exact mechanism you would do for 635 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 3: the comp But when was the last time a team 636 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 3: led the league in shutouts and then finished in last 637 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 3: place by that many games. It's just their rotation was fine, 638 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 3: their pitching was good enough to be a playoff team, 639 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 3: but the hitting is so far away, and I'm just 640 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 3: I'll be curious to see how much of the current 641 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 3: staff they'd have to give away to get a commensurate 642 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 3: batting order in there to be. 643 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: Oh, the only way to do that is free agency, 644 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: and they just won't spend. And no free agent would 645 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: see this as an attractive destination, no, almost, no matter 646 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: what the price, Like I aren't. Some dipstick called the 647 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: B team the other day tim and talked about getting 648 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: Suarez from. 649 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,719 Speaker 2: Seattle at any price. 650 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: After hitting like forty something home runs why would he 651 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 1: want to go from a division champ to the baseball 652 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: equivalent of Dante's Inferno. 653 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 3: What was the name of the center fielder they had 654 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 3: for like half a year, Jerome Dyson. I was there 655 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 3: in the scrum. I remember, I said, So, what made 656 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 3: you decide on coming to Pittsburgh. He's like, they asked 657 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 3: nobody else did. That was the other part of that answer. 658 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 2: They asked that no one else did. 659 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 3: If somebody else asks, a player like Suarez is gonna 660 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 3: go to somebody else unless the Pirates drastically overpay, which 661 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 3: they're not inclined to do. And if they do that 662 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 3: for one guy, they won't do it for a second. 663 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 3: And like we just said, they probably need more than 664 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 3: two bats to get to that eighty three win level, 665 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 3: eighty four win level, which Wayerd was very prescient to 666 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 3: point out that night on the broadcast. 667 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: It's like Richard Pryor his routine when he talked to 668 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: the guy in prison, he said, why did you kill 669 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: everybody in the house? 670 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 2: And he said he was home. 671 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 3: Tim goodstuff will talk soon, all right, Mark, we'll talking 672 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 3: the podcast on Monday. 673 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 2: That's Tim Benz, Mark Madden