1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Brian Thomas here right here, and please welcome Michael Pack. 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: He is a renowned documentary director and we're going to 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,480 Speaker 1: be talking about his newest release, The Last six hundred Meters, 4 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: The Battles of ned Jaff and Fallujah. He is the 5 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: president of Manifold Production, the independent film and television production 6 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: company that he founded way back in seventy seven. Manifold Productions, 7 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: mister Pack have written, directed, and produced numerous award winning, 8 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: nationally broadcast documentaries, as well as corporate and educational films. 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: Also president of Palladium Pictures. I could go through your 10 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: film list, but let's dive right onto it. Michael, Well, 11 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: welcome to the fifty five care Some morning should to 12 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: talk about a very important documentary you released, this Last 13 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: six hundred Meters. What caused you to gravitate to make 14 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: this particular film about the battles of Najaff and Fallujas 15 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: are good to have you on the program. 16 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: Well, it's good to be on your program. Well, as 17 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: you say, I've made a lot of documentaries, fifteen have 18 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 2: been nationally broadcast by PBS, a very unusual path. It's 19 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 2: called The Last six hundred Meters, The Battles of the 20 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 2: Joff and Fallujah, because a special force of sniper says 21 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: in the film, I don't make foreign policy. I delivered 22 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: the last six hundred meters of it, meaning what he 23 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 2: could see through a sniperscope, And we try to stay 24 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 2: true to that. It's not about should we be in 25 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 2: Iraq with the Iraq We're good or bad. It was 26 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 2: what it was like to fight these battles. These are 27 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 2: the biggest battles in America has fought since Vietnam. And 28 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 2: we try to tell the story from the point of 29 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 2: view the people who fought there, from corporals and sergeants 30 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 2: up to the one star generals in the field, and 31 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 2: we try to make it a battle story as if 32 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 2: it were a great historic battle like b Rejima or Gettysburg. 33 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: And it is the hard great historic battles. But the 34 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 2: path that you asked about how we got there is 35 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 2: an odd one. We were researching a film about the 36 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: Iraq War while it was going on in two thousand 37 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: and four and five. You know, I thought the stories 38 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 2: of these battles and these young men and women were 39 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 2: being were untold, and I conducted the interviews with them 40 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 2: in two thousand and seven three years after the battle, 41 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 2: when they were still young and their memories were fresh. 42 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 2: And then we completed a version of film in two 43 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 2: thousand and eight, and even though it was primarily funded 44 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting PBS initially declined to 45 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 2: broadcast it. They thought it was too pro military. Not 46 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: sure what that means with us what they said, And 47 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: over seventeen years we begged them to broadcast it, and 48 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 2: finally person of the PBS and what I considered to 49 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 2: be a courageous move, reversed seventeen years of no to 50 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 2: say yes, and we slightly updated it and we put 51 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: it on PBS. It was broadcast nationally and PBS the 52 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 2: day before Veterans Day in the two hundred and fiftieth 53 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 2: anniversary of the Marine Corps. And it is now streaming 54 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 2: off doing elsewhere. So it's it had a very unusual history, 55 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 2: but it's being more relevant today than it. 56 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: Was a way back when well, cults being say, I'm 57 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 1: trying to draw parallel altitudes about Vietnam. Why were we 58 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: battle in the country, We don't care about why? Well, 59 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: the soldiers took the brunt of that when they can 60 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: always felt terrible about that. But the idea into Iraq 61 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: was predicated on weapons and guess what, there weren't any 62 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: there at least that is that part of the resistance, 63 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: like we shouldn't have been in that ignoring the pearl, 64 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: the death and the awful and women on the front 65 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: line had to I. 66 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: Think I think people couldn't see the because of their ideology. 67 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 2: Whatever it happened, and it was very much parallel to 68 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: non war veterans. I think the Irastan were veterans also done. 69 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 2: People don't like their wars too a bunch. The fact 70 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: that these were heroic people, young men and women on 71 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: the line for us, the American and I think now 72 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 2: more clearly. I mean, you know, the very impressive they've 73 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 2: done to put them laves a huge rim. You can 74 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: hear this very dramatic. Oh you know this is you know, 75 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: people I wore from home at least, so these people 76 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: are doing an unusual thing. And I also think it's 77 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: meant though it's in twice battles. I think the world 78 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: are often in the wars and will be a point 79 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: to the war in Gaza. You know, America opt into 80 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 2: until we should at least understand that. 81 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: And you know, I've been in a blessed going to 82 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: talk to a lot of what I always refer to 83 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: in indoors in Fallujah, and I'm text of I think 84 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,679 Speaker 1: I had experience. I can certainly step to post traumatic 85 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: stress either reavey or whenever you start kicking, you go 86 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: into a room. One point of these brave men they 87 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: kick it the room and beneath the foot mounted the 88 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: enemy crayoft gun and they started the room from beneath 89 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: the floor. What his pants went right through it. Through 90 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: that experience, you're doing innutes later in the next building, 91 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: you're doing getting up tomorrow and doing the same thing, 92 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: operating at that level of adrennine and exploring that amount 93 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: of brave in and day out. 94 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 2: It is truly I think that in the breakdown these doors, 95 00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: you don't know when you smash the dress and the 96 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 2: you're confronting Alliam that you're supposed to help or if 97 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 2: it's going to kill you and you've got to kill him. 98 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 2: But when you have to make these split level decisions day, 99 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 2: you know, to time day after day, a lot to 100 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 2: ask and a lot of the people be down the doors. 101 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 2: The corporal sergeants are eighteen nineteen young men in this 102 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: case you know, just out of high school or in college. 103 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 2: It's a lot to ask pressure, but I do spent. 104 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 2: There's been attention to these that are PTSD and typical. 105 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: Maybe bad things that happened there like Aditha obscured the 106 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 2: fact that yeah they had true but there's also they did. 107 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: We tell the story of Hell House, it varied where 108 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: marines were pinned, had to heroically or it's to rescue 109 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: the marines in the house. Now you can see it's 110 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 2: going to break into the house to bars and take 111 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 2: his kevler off, having to cross the kill zone. Where 112 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 2: have them PINNs for times? I mean it's very yeah, 113 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:55,559 Speaker 2: sure what is after Hell House? You can see the face, 114 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: you know, it's just empty stairs and ang of all energy. 115 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: But I think, yeah, there's the PTSD, so the heroism 116 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,919 Speaker 2: and valor to notice. 117 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: But I couldn't agree more with you and port of 118 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,040 Speaker 1: of what they were, what they understand that the questionable 119 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: circumstaned to gravitate over that some profoundly affected to the 120 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: negati amount of stress, for example. But did you get 121 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: collectively if you had to put them on the folks 122 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: that you talked about or the talk with when you're 123 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: making the last that they were indeed able to accomplish, 124 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: that they were prouday with a higher sense of bravery, 125 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: efective on their extreme, their sense of purpose. Were they 126 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: all positive whole experience and looking looking back atting themselves 127 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: on the back that you know, damn it, I entered 128 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: and then I did what I was failed. 129 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 2: The variety of view is about them kind of screening 130 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 2: in Washington very really invited all the veterans that many did. 131 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 2: But I hadn't seen them in seventeen years older, of course, 132 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 2: but they were very proud of them. They were very 133 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 2: bonded to each other. A moving experience many veterans, I 134 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: think it was their most intense experience, as they said, 135 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 2: got even if I haven't seen them for years, they 136 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: have them waves deeper than whether you know they've gone 137 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 2: through this intense you know. So on the other hand, 138 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 2: they all have had trump. Many of them were happy 139 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 2: in my film. Finally they couldn't show it to their family, 140 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: They couldn't really speak about the experience. But yeah, I 141 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 2: think they thought, you know, especially the marine that we had. 142 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 2: When marine got it, Look, we can win any war 143 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 2: and any battlefield that we will win. Get to the 144 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 2: objective went on together, these strategic objective to other people's job, 145 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 2: and today we could do it. And this guy years later, 146 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: he's still so I think they live over there. 147 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: I am so happy. Director of the last six hundred 148 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 1: meters is the battles of I have a kind of 149 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: were these the saddles? I mean, you know when you 150 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: look in different theater, jungle warfare, you got desert wars, 151 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: you know, basically door to door as I sort of 152 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: explained it, if re forms were in the job and 153 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: fame type of fighting, or were there that going on. 154 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 2: Urban warfare? I mean that sense good the same, but 155 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 2: it's still a Flujia in the north the insurgents and 156 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: then out against Chia after the second Battle of fallusiaus 157 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 2: a month period. You know, the city hit by the 158 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: mad maconter al satter first began in this very weird 159 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 2: huge cemetery, multiple and multiple layers below grounded landscape, and 160 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 2: then nice bunty militia into this grand uh one of 161 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 2: the most holy sites, and then it's a question of 162 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: how you get it's a political battle and vibrating and 163 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: then there's all these huge kind of apartment they had 164 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: that the that there's levels and they're found in those buildings. 165 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: It's now a Democratic congressman story of someone in his 166 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 2: squad countered in the surgeon undergrounds and the quarters were 167 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 2: so close they their machines, and so it was turned 168 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 2: into a knight tell the marine urgent with his knife food. 169 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 2: So it gets bootle, primitive combat and very strange surreals 170 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 2: fight to kicking down the doors. Full of the Second 171 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 2: Battle of Fallujah. Creation on that, but. 172 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: Still are fair enough from the Bobs Link. Can't thank 173 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: you enough for document that's six hundred meters of battles. 174 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: And in my listening audience, I had conveterans, many of 175 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: whom were probably can certainly relate to it, and to 176 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people who really don't get it, haven't 177 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: can't understand it, get a load of it. It's right 178 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: there for everyone to see, the last six hundred meters 179 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 1: of battles in the job Infludium. My guest today, the 180 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: producer and director of the film, Michael Pack, thank you 181 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: again for your service to the country and your service 182 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 1: to the men and women who were involved in the 183 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: conflict and putting the film together. And I will encourage 184 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 1: my listeners to check it out. I'm staring at the 185 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: page right now. PBS Documentaries. It's easy to find, and 186 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: my producer will put a link on my blog page 187 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 1: at fifty five care se dot com to make it 188 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: that much easier