1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Dragon, Please you post the podcasts. We know what kind 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: of history of Michael had when he was doing it before, 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: especially on the Saturdays. Now that he stops doing it 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: and his other producer publishes them, they're in the right order. 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 2: You let Michael publish, they'll be all screwed up. 6 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why I don't. I don't. I try. 7 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 4: I try to touch as little as possible around here. Yes, 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 4: don't hurt I just stay away. 9 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 10 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 2: You can barely even double click, although it's it's. 11 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 4: Much easier over here because we actually have a functioning mouse. 12 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 2: It only happens once a week. 13 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 4: Yeah, and we also have a mouse pad. And I 14 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 4: think primarily because it's this mouse. 15 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 2: Is made within the past decade. 16 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. 17 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 4: In fact, I honestly I think this mouse is probably 18 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 4: less than five years old. 19 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 20 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 4: Yeah. I got my property tax bill yesterday and was 21 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 4: shocked like everybody else. And then I read a story 22 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 4: about how the Cold Pollut Bureau is wanting to impose 23 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 4: price controls. And the example that was given over in 24 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 4: Corey's article that I was reading this morning was like 25 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 4: the price of hot dogs when you go to Coursfield. Now, 26 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 4: I think the price of hot dogs at Course Field 27 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 4: is probably outrageous I don't know, ten dollars, fifteen dollars 28 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 4: a dog, I don't know, but some outrageous price. But 29 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:32,919 Speaker 4: that is a transaction based on me purchasing something because 30 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 4: they kept the pollut. Bureroch keeps talking about these captured customers. 31 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 4: If you go to Course Field to watch a ballgame 32 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 4: or to Mile High, are you really a captured customer 33 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 4: a captured consumer? Because if I, if I recall right correctly, 34 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 4: nobody forces you to go to those sports stadiums. You 35 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 4: purchase a ticket, unless you live under a rock, you 36 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 4: know that whatever you buy there, a T shirt, a cap, 37 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 4: a hot dog, a beer, whatever it might be, is 38 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 4: going to be outrageously expensive. And that's true of almost 39 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:18,279 Speaker 4: any place you go. So you're not a captive consumer. 40 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 4: You're entering into a voluntary transaction going to a place 41 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 4: where you know that the prices are going to be outrageous. Now, 42 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 4: whether those prices have any relationship whatsoever to the cost 43 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 4: of goods sold, to all of the delivery costs and 44 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 4: the salaries and the wages and everything, is immaterial. 45 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 3: It's that you want a hot dog. 46 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 4: You're in the stadium and you can leave, you can 47 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 4: get your hand stamped, and you can come back so 48 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 4: you can go out and eat a hot dog, which 49 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 4: you can't bring it in. You're voluntarily purchasing that hot dog. 50 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 4: I'm beginning to wonder if in every legislative red state, 51 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 4: blue state, I don't care, because they're also starting to 52 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:11,360 Speaker 4: look at wealth taxes, taxing your wealth. Now, I've got 53 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 4: a little bit of wealth, not a lot, but I 54 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 4: got enough enough that I, you know, enough that I'm 55 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 4: almost comfortable. It's like kind of like you feel like, okay, 56 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 4: you're not okay, but then you read about you know, 57 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 4: like somebody else, Like you look at dragon and you think, oh, well, 58 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 4: dang it. Like I'm right here like a nose level, 59 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 4: and he's at my forehead level, and I'm thinking, well, 60 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 4: if I could just get to that forehead level, then 61 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 4: I could feel comfortable. 62 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 3: I just kind of like, ooh, it's kind of ify. 63 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 4: But no matter how many jurisdictions discover the hard way 64 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 4: that these stupid wealth taxes are going to backfire In California, 65 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 4: so get ready, Colorado, they're collecting signatures to put a 66 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 4: one time, a one time, five percent tax on the 67 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 4: net worth of the roughly two hundred billionaires that live 68 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 4: in California to be voted on this coming November. So 69 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 4: I'm thinking, ah, good, they're billionaires. Five percent, They're not 70 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 4: going to notice. Who cares. But the funny thing about 71 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 4: people in money is that even people have lots like 72 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 4: to keep it. You may not have much money, like 73 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 4: I don't have much money, but you like to keep 74 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 4: what you have, and you like to be a fairly 75 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 4: particular about what you spend or you don't spend it 76 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 4: on And interestingly, and I think unconstitutionally, the twenty twenty 77 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 4: six Billionaire Attacks Act in California is slightly retro active 78 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 4: a variety of pre crime legislation applying to anyone resident 79 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 4: in California on January one, this past January one, looping 80 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 4: a bungee cord around the ankles of anybody that wants 81 00:04:55,560 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 4: to try to escape the Sunshine State. So Peter Thiel, all, 82 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 4: a bunch of these billionaires are now scrambling to establish 83 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 4: a presence in a lower tax state. Think Lake Tahoe. 84 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 4: That's what Zuckerberg just think about doing. He bought some 85 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 4: you know, I don't know, forty million dollar mansion just 86 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 4: on the Nevada side, not on the California side, trying 87 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 4: to avoid, you know, having being a resident. But changing 88 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 4: state tax domicile in this country involves more than just 89 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 4: packing up a U haul and spending one hundred and 90 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 4: eighty three plus days a year someplace else. California's franchise 91 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 4: tax board hounds any fugitive who might have left his 92 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 4: heart in San Francisco. There you go after you, where 93 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,040 Speaker 4: does your pet live? Have you canceled your CrossFit membership? 94 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,480 Speaker 4: They scare credit card bills for any California based charges. 95 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 4: New York goes one better because New York once won 96 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 4: a court case by proving that a former resident had 97 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 4: not truly moved to Florida because her husband was married 98 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 4: in New York. Ergo, even leaving behind a corpse might 99 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 4: anchor you to the high tax rates of the entire state. Now, 100 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 4: I don't have to worry about this because I'm not 101 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 4: a billionaire. But what irritates me is the attitude and 102 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 4: the belief among the useful idiots among us that this 103 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 4: is a good thing, That what we ought to do 104 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 4: is we ought to figure out ways to tax these 105 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 4: people because they've got too much money, and the more 106 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 4: money they have the less money I can get. I 107 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 4: haven't figured out yet how Peter Thiel or Mark Zuckerberg 108 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 4: or Elon Musk or Tim Cook at Apple or Bill 109 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 4: Gates or anybody else peorl Bill Gates. 110 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 3: He's in such big doo doo. 111 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 4: Hey, Hey, Jeffrey, how can I give Melinda some kind 112 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 4: of selling without her knowing? Because I got an SDD 113 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 4: and I might have given Milanda the SDD. 114 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 3: How do I do that? 115 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 4: I'm mad as hell and I ain't gonna take it 116 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 4: anymore For this, I'm just gonna. 117 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 3: Day in your life forever. I'm never leaving dragging. 118 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, we really do need to do a little goober event. 119 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 4: You'll have a burger somewhere, do something and invite you 120 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 4: know that one that one. Oh yes, just to watch 121 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 4: the frankest that will occur. When he shows up. You 122 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 4: know he'll be like, is it lil or Pigpen? Who 123 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 4: in the Peanuts character? You know it's just always got 124 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 4: the dust falling the chaos, pig Pen. He'll be just 125 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 4: like pig Pin. If you know, we go to someplace 126 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 4: nice thet's say we go to Perry Steakhouse. 127 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 3: Now we'll go some we'll go to McDonald's. 128 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 2: Can you imagine him showing up in some kind of 129 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: mad Max rig. 130 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 4: Right and and and parking in the in the vallot parking. 131 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 4: You know, he'll pull it into the vallot so but 132 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 4: I can you see him walking in and just like 133 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 4: everything just turned to chaos instantly, just total chaos. Oh 134 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 4: they you know, they probably would. Some guys will pull 135 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 4: their guns, like, you know, just in case, and we'll 136 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 4: just laugh. We'll just laugh at him. But then I 137 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 4: worry that if we actually meet him, it'll be a 138 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 4: huge disappointment. 139 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: Exactly. Nothing can live up to the hype, No. 140 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 4: Nothing at all. It'll be just like he'll show up 141 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 4: and you know, he'll be like one of the Blues brothers, 142 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 4: you know, in the black suit, white shirt and a 143 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 4: thin black tie, you know, and maybe at a door 144 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 4: of some sort. Now that's right, fried chicken and white toast. 145 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 4: That's that's what it will be. It will be so disappointed. 146 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 4: It'll never be the same again. But don't you ever wonder. 147 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 4: I wonder all the time because I wonder about most 148 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 4: of these people in the. 149 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 3: Text line, and they talk back all of you, and 150 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 3: then it worries me you have. 151 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 4: Often I talk about it's not like the view. It's 152 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 4: not the view that drives me crazy, crazy and worries me. 153 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 4: It's the people that are watching the view and clapping. 154 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 4: I had the same problem here. It's like, I know 155 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 4: that I'm nuts, and I know that I'm crazy, and 156 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 4: I know that I'm sometimes you know, completely off the wall, 157 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:12,359 Speaker 4: but they're. 158 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 3: Listening to me. 159 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 2: Uh huh. 160 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 3: That scares me. 161 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 4: What if I walk among them out in the wild, 162 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 4: it'd be like being back in d C and again 163 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 4: and be like Jane Goodall, except be with the real 164 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 4: monkeys this time and not the pretend monkeys in DC. 165 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 4: The biggest problem I have with Wells, Texas it's not logical, 166 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,319 Speaker 4: which it is logical, but it's not the biggest problem. 167 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 4: It's philosophical because there is no ownership. If if the 168 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,719 Speaker 4: state of Colorado or California reserves the right to confiscate 169 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 4: your assets up to one hundred percent, effectively everything that 170 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 4: you fancy, that you think you own belongs to the state. 171 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 4: And if you're very very good, state will let you 172 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 4: borrow some of your stuff from the vast lending library 173 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 4: that they have. There's a there's a word for this system, 174 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 4: and I think it begins with a C Communism. So 175 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 4: the first thing I thought when I got my property 176 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 4: tax bill was wow, uh, that's more than I expected, 177 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 4: although I had heard rumors about what they were going 178 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,679 Speaker 4: to be. But I thought, I'll never own this house. 179 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 4: I'll never own even even in New Mexico, where the 180 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 4: property taxes are on my home in New Mexico are 181 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 4: let me guess, a tenth literally a tenth of what 182 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 4: they are in Colorado. But still if I don't pay 183 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 4: those New Mexico property taxes this day of New Mexico, 184 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 4: will you know, go sell it to the tax sale 185 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 4: and one you aw who's a little by it, and 186 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 4: they all have to go pay the back taxes. So 187 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 4: I can never actually own my property. Oh they'll tell 188 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 4: me I own it, but I don't really do. All 189 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 4: that you regard as being yours. Carol Roth wrote a 190 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 4: great book one time you ought to go read. You 191 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 4: will own nothing. All that that you think is yours, 192 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 4: You're just renting. And the wealth tax paradigm duplicates the 193 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 4: lucrative business model now popular with tech. We know you 194 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 4: don't buy Microsoft, for example, I'm paying out the wall 195 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 4: Zoo at home, because iheart's version of Adobe Audition is 196 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 4: literally version number one, and so I do the Adobe 197 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 4: you know, lease agreement, whatever you want to call it 198 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 4: software software as a service, So you don't buy Microsoft Words. 199 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,599 Speaker 4: I don't buy Adobe Audition or Adobe. I rent it 200 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 4: by the month. I don't own it. Remember when you 201 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 4: could go to this will date meet. You could go 202 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 4: to a computer store and you could buy, you know, 203 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 4: a CD, or or even something that I had a 204 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 4: floppy disk that had software on it. 205 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 2: Anymore comp Us circuit. 206 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 4: City, Yes, exactly. All these wealth tax advocates also play 207 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 4: to a really vague but popular impression among the useful idiots, 208 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 4: does somehow accruing wealth beyond whatever threshold. Different people have 209 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 4: different thresholds, But once you earn more than somebody thinks 210 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:24,199 Speaker 4: you should. 211 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 3: Earn, then you're being immoral. 212 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 4: I don't think that any of these billionaires are immoral 213 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 4: based on how much money they've earned, or how much 214 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 4: money or how much wealth they have now. They may 215 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 4: be immoral for other reasons, but it's not based on 216 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 4: their balance sheet. I think some people truly believe that 217 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 4: there ought to be a hard seiling above which nobody's 218 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 4: allowed to amass any more wealth and any excess wealth than. 219 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 3: The government ought to. 220 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 4: Seize, and oh, of course we'll distribute that to the 221 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 4: less well off, which hey, okay, that would be me. 222 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 5: So, Michael, here is my philosophy on property taxes. 223 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 2: They're immoral. 224 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 5: Let's just use the word immoral because, as you have said, 225 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 5: you won't actually never own it. The government will always 226 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 5: have an opportunity to take it away from you. That 227 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 5: is immoral. So I kind of want to move that 228 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 5: over to the window. So use the word immoral. Name 229 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 5: it what it is. 230 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 3: They are immoral, And I. 231 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 4: Think that these wealth tax advocates really do play to 232 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 4: the lowest common denominator, the idea that accruing wealth beyond 233 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 4: some level it becomes immoral. Interesting that we have two 234 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 4: aspects of morality to taxation. The taxes itself is immoral 235 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 4: because you, as Kathleen says, you can never own it. 236 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 4: Then the idea is that if you create wealth for 237 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 4: yourself beyond a certain level, who's and who's to decide what 238 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 4: that level is, that. 239 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 3: That becomes immoral. 240 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 4: I think a lot of average or low income earners 241 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 4: instinctively regard the very existence like AOC and others just 242 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 4: the existence of a billionaire is some sort of an 243 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 4: injustice that that shows what's wrong with capitalism. Ironic, I 244 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 4: think it shows exactly what's right with capitalism. So should 245 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 4: there be a hard ceiling above which nobody's allowed to 246 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 4: amass any more wealth, and then all that wealth that's 247 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 4: see that is that is accumulated beyond that level, you've 248 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 4: got to access that by the government and seize it 249 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 4: and distribute it to people less less well off. I 250 00:14:55,200 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 4: mean that is communist, that that is a that's kind 251 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 4: of a Chinese Communist Party model of capitalism. But all 252 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 4: of that is a basic misunderstanding of non zero economics. 253 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 4: Have billionaires stolen money from other people's wallets and then 254 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 4: stuffed it in their safe somewhere? Is that what happens 255 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 4: a freaky byproduct of product of capitalism. What billionaires have 256 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 4: done is they've generated value, usually by building a business. 257 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 4: They hire employees, they create a product or a service 258 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 4: which other people want and pay for, and by wanting 259 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 4: in paying for that, that gives them profit to expand 260 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 4: and grow that business. And of course, because they're the owners, 261 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 4: they take a little bit off the top to pay themselves, 262 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 4: and they keep growing the business, hiring more employees. And 263 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 4: by the way, all those employees they hire, many of 264 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 4: them will get benefits, insurance, health coverage, time off, whatever, 265 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 4: plus the money they earn in exchange for their labor. 266 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 3: Or their services. 267 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 4: And that in turn, because those people go out and 268 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 4: buy groceries, or they buy cars, or they do whatever 269 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 4: with their money. I don't understand how, except being an idiot, 270 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 4: can you think that being a billionaire is somehow immoral 271 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 4: or that it is well or it is a misunderstanding 272 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 4: of non zero sum economics. Do you eliminate the billionaire, 273 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 4: you suddenly don't have a billion dollars to spend on 274 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 4: schools or hospitals. The state and the citizens are actually poorer, 275 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 4: like California would be if it passes its proposition, or 276 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 4: like Colorado will be if he continues to increase the 277 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 4: taxes in this state. Still for government wealth taxes for 278 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 4: some reason are just eternally tempting all that money. 279 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 3: Let's just take it. 280 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 4: Spain introduced a solidarity tax for any residents' assets over 281 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 4: three million euros about three point five million dollars, a 282 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 4: modest net worth three quarters of Britain's reckon that a 283 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 4: UK wealth tax would be swell, oh, we ought to 284 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 4: do this. When you do chasing away even more of 285 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 4: your tax base, you'd set an alarming precedent, giving the 286 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 4: state free reign to appropriate what you nominally own post tax. 287 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 4: And you imagine they'll only use that new superpower. Billionaires, 288 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 4: You gotta be kidding me. Your innocence is really kind 289 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 4: of disgusting. It's not even sweet or cute. It's kind 290 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 4: of disgusting. Because no, it's like when I said earlier 291 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 4: about initially you know it's a it's a first time tax. No, 292 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 4: it's it's it'll be an always tax. How did we 293 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 4: end up in this situation with the property taxes? To 294 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 4: begin with? How did we get here? They just didn't 295 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 4: come out of nowhere? Do you know that the roots 296 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 4: of property tax actually goes back to the colonial period. 297 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 4: Property taxes in this country came directly from England. Now, 298 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 4: this is in medieval times. The concept was pretty straightforward. 299 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 4: Land ownership was the primary measure of wealth. 300 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 3: Now, most people didn't own land. 301 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 4: They worked the land in exchange for a portion of 302 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 4: whatever they produced cattle or you know, grains or whatever. 303 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 4: So taxing land was the most logical way for the 304 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 4: monarchs or the ruling elite to fund the government. Now, 305 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 4: in the colonies, property taxes started appearing almost immediately. Massachusetts 306 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 4: Bay Colony in sixteen thirty four imposed one of the 307 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 4: first property taxes. They were based on the visible estate, land, building's, livestock, 308 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 4: sometimes even personal property. The assessments were done by local 309 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 4: selectmen who literally walked around and eyeball what you owned, 310 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 4: and the rates was very wildly between the communities, but. 311 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 3: The principle was consistent. 312 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 4: If you owned real property, real estate, land, personal property, 313 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 4: you paid taxes. Now, it had an interesting feature that 314 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 4: you'd probably recognized today. Local assessments, local collections direct relationship 315 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 4: to services. Your taxes paid for the roads, the schools, 316 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 4: the town watchmen, poor relief for the you know, the 317 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 4: poor people who have become stumbling through your town. And 318 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 4: they had public assessment roles. Your neighbors knew what you paid. 319 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 4: You ever done that, You ever gone onto your county 320 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 4: tax assessor and looks see what your neighbors are paying. 321 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, you can do that. 322 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 4: And then the Revolutionary War occurs, and that's where it 323 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 4: gets really interesting. The revolution was flopped partly over taxation, right, 324 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 4: but the Founders did not reject taxes. They rejected taxation 325 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 4: without representation. And then because of that, property taxes were 326 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 4: actually seen as the founders as the most legitimate form 327 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 4: of taxation because it was visible, you could calculate it. 328 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 4: Unlike income, which then was considered to be private. Property 329 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 4: was publicly observable and voluntary in a sense, in a 330 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 4: sense because you could choose to own property, or you 331 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 4: could just be like in medieval times, you could just say, hey, 332 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 4: can I rent your land? I'd like to, you know, 333 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 4: I'd like to put some cattle on it, maybe you know, 334 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,479 Speaker 4: some pigs, or maybe I'd like to grow some corner 335 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 4: soybeans or something. So you would choose to own the 336 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 4: property or you would choose to lease it. And it 337 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 4: was related to the ability to pay. Wealthier people owned more, 338 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 4: they had better property, so they were better able to pay. 339 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 4: And it always remained in local control. And then we 340 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 4: get the Constitution adopted. Article one, Section nine originally required 341 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 4: they need direct taxes be apportioned among the states by population, 342 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 4: and property taxes were considered the quintessential direct tax. But 343 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 4: here's the key. The federal government never used property taxes. 344 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,959 Speaker 4: It was left the state and localities. Now we gave 345 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 4: him to the nineteenth century, and the property tax just explodes. 346 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 4: This is when residential property tax taxation really became true 347 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 4: to what we see today. Between say, seventeen ninety six 348 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 4: seventeen eighty nine whenever nin killed, probably just before the 349 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 4: Civil War, there's a general property tax era. The state's 350 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 4: adopted constitutional requirements for a uniform taxation, and the theory 351 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 4: was we've attaxed all property, real estate, personal property in tangibles, 352 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 4: and we tax them all at the same rate. But 353 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 4: the reality was that wasn't workable. Think about personal property. 354 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 4: Who are you going to report how much you paid 355 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 4: for that couch, that bed. Are you really going to 356 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 4: tell the tax assessor about your jewelry? No, of course 357 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 4: you're not. So it became unworkable, and the result property 358 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 4: taxation increasingly focused on real estate because you can't hide it. 359 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 4: But why residential property specifically, because the land records were 360 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 4: public and they were becoming standardized. Buildings were permanent, visible improvements, 361 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 4: and as we became more urbanized, residential real estate became 362 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 4: a huge portion of the total wealth, and state and 363 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 4: local governments wanted needed output. In quotes reliable, steady revenue 364 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 4: for expanding services. And then we start getting the assessment methods. Now, 365 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,959 Speaker 4: initially the market value estimates were made by local assessors. 366 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 4: Assessors often political appointees. Later became a more systematic approach, 367 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 4: though still highly variable, variable among states and counties, and 368 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 4: frequent under assessment was common. I wish that were true today. 369 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,719 Speaker 4: Then you get into the earliest twentieth century and the 370 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 4: modern system really began to emerge. Specialization of revenue sources. Now, 371 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,880 Speaker 4: I want you to think. Let let's bifurcate this trifurcated 372 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 4: a few will. The federal government's tariffs prior to nineteen thirteen, 373 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 4: no income tax. We tariffed the products that came into 374 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 4: this country. And that's how the federal government functioned. And 375 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 4: then stupidly we adopted the sixteenth Amendment and put in 376 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 4: the income tax, and we started taxing our own labor. 377 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 4: States had sales taxes, and they started doing income taxes too. Oh, 378 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 4: that was starting probably in nineteen thirty nineteen forty. 379 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 3: But the local. 380 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 4: Governments always and to this day, remain their primary revenue source. 381 00:23:53,640 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 4: Why now do we fund schools when the government runs schools? 382 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 4: Started to expand in the late eighteen hundreds and the 383 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 4: early nineteen hundreds, property taxes became the primary funding mechanism 384 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 4: for schools. So what did that do? That started the 385 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 4: snowball effect, and we started creating this heavy reliance on 386 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,479 Speaker 4: residential property taxes. And there were huge disparities between wealthy 387 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 4: districts or poor districts, depending on where you live. And 388 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,959 Speaker 4: that political pressure continues today. And then you get pre 389 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 4: nineteen hundred, most Americans rented, they didn't own their home. 390 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 4: Only after World War II. And what happened after World 391 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 4: War II? You got the GI bill, you got the 392 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 4: FHA loans, you started getting suburban development, and suddenly homeownership explodes. 393 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 3: And then the. 394 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 4: Yahoos and the polyp bureaus, whether it be at state, local, 395 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,239 Speaker 4: or county level. Suddenly you realize, oh, we have a 396 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 4: broad base of voters that creates political constituencies. They care 397 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 4: deeply about rates and assessments. Let's just focus on property taxes. 398 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 4: And some states adopted some limitations. You know, we've got tabor, 399 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 4: which they keep you know, chipping away at and states 400 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 4: started adopting uniformity clauses requiring equal treatment of property. So 401 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 4: the history of the property tax is well established in 402 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 4: this country. But I think as we start to recognize 403 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 4: that taxation doesn't egally get well at the state local level. Yes, 404 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 4: it covers the cost of government, but they keep you 405 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 4: increasing the cost of government, so they keep you increasing 406 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 4: the rates of assessment so that the rates and the 407 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 4: amount the dollar amounts that we pay keep going up 408 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 4: and up and up and stays. Like Colorado, tax your 409 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 4: property and your income, so you get tax. No matter 410 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 4: what Carol Roth is right, we will own nothing. Now 411 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 4: there are some homestead exemptions, doesn't help much. Senior citizen 412 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 4: exemptions doesn't really help a lot. Veterans, agriculture, use valuations, 413 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 4: these all emerges. What political responses to the burden of 414 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 4: the property tax? You and I just aren't represented. They 415 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 4: don't care. They're just gonna keep doing it and hope 416 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 4: that you know, if you don't own it, well, you'll 417 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 4: sell your house and you'll rent it out, but you'll 418 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 4: still pay the property tax, and except the renters will 419 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 4: pay it for you because you'll build the amount of 420 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,640 Speaker 4: property tax. Look, if I know what my property tax 421 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 4: bill is going to be, let's just say it's going 422 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 4: to be round numbers. It's going to be six thousand 423 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 4: dollars a year five hundred dollars a month, So I 424 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,480 Speaker 4: know that in my rent, I've got to include five 425 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 4: hundred dollars to cover the property taxes. So if I 426 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 4: was gonna charge two thousand dollars a month to rent 427 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 4: a house, I'm gonna charge twenty five hundred dollars a 428 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 4: month to include the property taxes. So the renter is 429 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 4: actually paying that. Nobody escapes paying the taxes. The thing 430 00:26:53,720 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 4: that bugs me, I could, if beat up enough, put. 431 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 3: Me on the gallows. I could live with a property tax. 432 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 4: If there was some limitation on it, or there was 433 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 4: at some point, because I think about not necessarily in 434 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 4: my neighborhood, but I think about my mom ninety four almost, 435 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 4: you know, ninety five years old, So I pay her 436 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 4: property tax bill. Now, my dad built that house in 437 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 4: nineteen sixty nine. Don't you think at some point she 438 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 4: ought to own the house. Don't you think at some point, 439 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 4: even with the senior exemption that she can get in Oklahoma, 440 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,120 Speaker 4: don't you think that I'll just be like, no taxes 441 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 4: because at some point, haven't you paid like the liberals 442 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 4: like the quote, hasn't she paid her fair share, So 443 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 4: why keep taxing her at ninety four years old? Now 444 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 4: that raises all sorts of political considerations, because I can 445 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 4: make an argument that, Okay, if if the so called 446 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 4: retirement age is let's just say, let's use Social Security, 447 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 4: if it's sixty two or sixty five or whatever it 448 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 4: might be beyond that point. If you own your home, 449 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 4: you've spent thirty years in that home, and you've paid 450 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 4: off a thirty year mortgage, or maybe you paid it 451 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,199 Speaker 4: off early or whatever, so you have no debt on 452 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 4: the home and you're at retirement age. Why are you 453 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 4: paying taxes on a piece of real estate that you've maintained, 454 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 4: you've improved, you've lived in it, You've paid all the 455 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 4: debt on that, Yet the state and the county keep, 456 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 4: you know, attacking you at the point of the gun, 457 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 4: forcing you to pay those taxes. You probably don't have 458 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 4: kids in school. I don't start the argument with me 459 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 4: about how you know government run schools are a public good. Okay, yeah, 460 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 4: we should all want an educated population. But at some point, 461 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 4: haven't you done your fair share? Let's take their language 462 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 4: and throw it back at them. I've done my fair share. 463 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 4: Usually the current assessments are based on fair market value 464 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 4: or some fractionof it. Gets conducted periodically annually to every 465 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 4: few years. There is an appeal process, but it's increasingly 466 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 4: computerized mass appraisals. And in the middle of it is 467 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 4: the dollars per one thousand dollars of sess value. Is 468 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 4: how they set the rates. I looked at mine. Don't 469 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 4: hold me to this number, but I want to say, 470 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 4: there were and I don't know why the number sixty 471 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 4: one sticks in my head, but sixty one different taxing 472 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 4: units that are taking a part of the value of 473 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 4: my home, taking some of my income to cover sixty 474 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 4: one different taxing units. So let's go back and look 475 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 4: at it. I don't have it with me, but whatever 476 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 4: the number was, I just remember thinking, holy cow, that's 477 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 4: a lot. 478 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 3: Now. 479 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 4: That's every little district, every little subdivision, every little unit 480 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,719 Speaker 4: of government that once it's little share of money. It's 481 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 4: like when you register your car, go look at all 482 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 4: the fees. 483 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 3: That you pay. 484 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 4: Those are all little They call them fees, but in 485 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 4: reality they're all little taxing units. There's no escape. Carol 486 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 4: Roth is right. We will never own anything because the 487 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 4: government will always find a way to take part of 488 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 4: it at some points. Let's invert the argument. If at 489 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 4: some point the liberals want to argue that you've made 490 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 4: enough money and any money beyond that is immoral, can't 491 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 4: I make the same argument. Can I throw it back 492 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,040 Speaker 4: in their face and say, Okay, if that's true, then 493 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 4: at some point, haven't I paid enough into the system? 494 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 4: Haven't I paid enough property taxes or income taxes? Haven't 495 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 4: I reached at least reached an age or a dollar 496 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 4: amount or however the measure is that it becomes immoral 497 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 4: after that to continue, because it's not fair. 498 00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 3: It's not fair. 499 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 4: Despite all the complaints, I don't know that you'll ever 500 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 4: get rid of property taxes, because well, it's predictable revenue. 501 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 4: They've got local control over it. Administratively, it's pretty simple 502 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 4: to enforce it. There is the so called emphasize, the 503 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 4: so called benefit theory. Probably values rise with good local services, 504 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 4: creating a rough correlation, although I think that's debatable in Colorado. 505 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 4: And of course there's political inertia. Replacing property taxes would 506 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 4: require massive systemic change. And if there's one thing true 507 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 4: in politics, and objects in motion stays in motion. A 508 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 4: government rules stays in place, Nobody wants to change it.