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Speaker 1: All right, back on the Eddie and Rocky Show. Rock

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Speaker 1: is out today. Jason Williams from the Inquire Cincinnati dot

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Speaker 1: Com is with me and Jace. You know, considering what's

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Speaker 1: happened in Cincinnati in the last twenty four hours, perhaps

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Speaker 1: we could use a new PR firm. Yes, but we're

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Speaker 1: only Cincinnati though, No, no, not only Cincinnati. But I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: if this person could break this down for us, then

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Speaker 1: we can work on the Cincinnati situation together. What we're

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about the Southwest Airlines and they're fat

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Speaker 1: shaming situation they had last week and here to discuss.

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Speaker 1: She is a public relations marketing expert. She's been in

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Speaker 1: the business for many years and she just released a book, Pitchworthy.

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Speaker 1: She is our good friend. PJ. Blatin or kJ Blatinbauer, kJ,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the program.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me so kJ, you.

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Speaker 1: Heard me talking. Cincinnati has its problems right now, but

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Speaker 1: we shall deal with that later on. So maybe tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: maybe tomorrow, but let's talk about the Southwest Airlines thing

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Speaker 1: for people who don't know they're accused of fat shaming

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Speaker 1: someone after for many years being kind of famous for

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Speaker 1: letting you know over so we call oversized people kind

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Speaker 1: of slide with extra seeding.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they you know they. This actually isn't a

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Speaker 2: seating policy story for Selfwest. It's a trust story. They've

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Speaker 2: always trained their customers that for years they handle everything respectfully,

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Speaker 2: especially people's weight. But the expectation and the experience has

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Speaker 2: broken apart, and obviously you're going to get backlash, especially

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Speaker 2: anytime you're dealing with customer service and there's a surprise,

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Speaker 2: it's going to lead to outrage. Selfwest now went from

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Speaker 2: having one issue a customer upset and feeling fat shame,

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Speaker 2: to three big issues. The first one is that the

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Speaker 2: policy didn't change as much as the experience for their

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Speaker 2: customers did. Have always had space and safety rules, right,

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Speaker 2: but what changed for Southwest was refunds are no longer automatic,

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Speaker 2: the enforcement feels inconsistent, the decision feels subjective by who

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Speaker 2: you get at the counter, and passengers are being told

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Speaker 2: in public instead of ahead of time you can't fly

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Speaker 2: you're too heavy. The second thing, the second issue they

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Speaker 2: have is that public enforcement it creates humiliation. Right, So

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Speaker 2: what we saw out of the Kansas City example of

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Speaker 2: fat shaming, it matters because the conversation happened in front

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Speaker 2: of a line of passengers in a busy airport.

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Speaker 1: See, that's what got That's what gets me is that

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Speaker 1: couldn't you handle that a little more discreet manner and

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Speaker 1: kind of pull them in sading out look instead of

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Speaker 1: having all these people who are already mad because you're

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Speaker 1: holding up the line, but then go hold on to

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Speaker 1: say we got a fat one here who is holding

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Speaker 1: up the works there? I mean, come on, that's yeah,

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Speaker 1: really I would be That would make me the maddest.

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Speaker 1: I realized I'm a big guy, but don't call me

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Speaker 1: a big, fat dude in front of everybody, and that

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Speaker 1: I need to pay up or get out one.

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Speaker 2: Thousand percent one thousand percent. When one of the biggest

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Speaker 2: complaints is it depends on who you get at the counter.

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Speaker 2: It's not a communications failure, it's a training issue. If

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Speaker 2: customers don't understand the rule beforehand and employees get to

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Speaker 2: interpret it differently depending on the size of the person

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Speaker 2: in front of them or where the flight's going to,

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Speaker 2: people assume discrimination even when the airlines believe it's applying

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Speaker 2: safety standards. The reality check is this, airlines are a

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Speaker 2: weight in space business. They always have been seat with effects, safety, compliance,

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Speaker 2: evacuation timing, not only passenger comfort, but aircraft's balance. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's also a revenue model because airlines need to make money. Right,

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Speaker 2: the existence of the policy isn't a problem, like you said,

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Speaker 2: it's the rollo of the policy that's the problem.

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Speaker 3: What the heck is happened to Southwest Airlines? They used

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Speaker 3: to be beloved and like such loyal coming not even airlines,

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Speaker 3: but of any American company. You would always think Southwest

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Speaker 3: would seem to be mentioned as these guys get customer service,

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Speaker 3: loved them. Yeah, where did this go wrong? Did they

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Speaker 3: get a whole new leadership, CEO and team or something like?

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Speaker 3: What's happened here?

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Speaker 2: They got bottled by private equity, and private equity cares

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Speaker 2: about the bottom line. They don't care about the customer

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Speaker 2: at the end of the day. They care about the

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Speaker 2: bottom line. So whether the CEO is a hardline or

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Speaker 2: the CEO is a soft you see that when they

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Speaker 2: start making changes from top to bottom. And so the

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Speaker 2: biggest peer of mistake Southwest is making time and time again.

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Speaker 2: Now this is the latest case, is that they keep

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Speaker 2: changing the emotional contract with their most loyal customers and

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Speaker 2: they don't bought it to explain it at all.

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Speaker 3: Frustrating.

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Speaker 1: kJ. Blenbauer is our guest, and kJ, this seems to

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Speaker 1: be one of the most common problems you get here

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Speaker 1: with businesses where you know, you built your reputation on

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Speaker 1: one thing and then, as in this case, the equity

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Speaker 1: firm or whoever the case is, Jason was suggesting management change,

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Speaker 1: whatever the case might be, if it, if it works,

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Speaker 1: don't you know. If it's working, don't don't try to

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Speaker 1: fix it. What the hell's wrong?

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Speaker 2: Exactly?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: Exactly? The airlines and the companies that win long term

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Speaker 2: aren't the ones with the easiest policies or like the

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Speaker 2: loosest policies. They're the companies where whose customers feel respected

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Speaker 2: inside and outside time and time again.

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Speaker 1: Now is this a matter of when people come in

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Speaker 1: and Okay, it's working, right Jason talking about and I

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Speaker 1: think we can all agree that Southwest, even if you

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Speaker 1: didn't fly, you recognize them as high quality customer service,

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Speaker 1: much beloved. Now, when you come in and examine a

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Speaker 1: situation like that, are you do you think you know

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Speaker 1: we can cut this and nobody's going to notice, or

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Speaker 1: you know, is that what it is people trying to

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Speaker 1: cut back on stuff, maybe save a buck here and

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Speaker 1: buck there, and then lose their reputation. How does that work?

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Speaker 2: I personally have never sold my soul to private equity,

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Speaker 2: so I'm not sure the specific and that they follow.

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Speaker 2: But I'm going to tell you that they aren't looking

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Speaker 2: at things that people won't miss. They don't think about

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Speaker 2: the people at all. They think about the bottom line.

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Speaker 2: They look at spreadsheets and numbers and not how it's

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Speaker 2: going to impact real world operations. You can see Southwest

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Speaker 2: is going the way that Frontier went so not so

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Speaker 2: long ago, because it's kind of the same model, the

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Speaker 2: same company kJ.

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Speaker 3: What if Southwest Airlines called you and said, kJ, we

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Speaker 3: need crisis pr help, We need you now, what would

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Speaker 3: what would be I guess ay, how would you approach

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Speaker 3: this individual customer from Kansas City on the on the

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Speaker 3: granular level, But then what would be your bigger, broader

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Speaker 3: approach to tackling this and trying to turn the tide

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Speaker 3: for that company?

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Speaker 2: For me, it's about there's three sides of every story, right,

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Speaker 2: There's the customer side, there's what happened on the Southwest side,

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Speaker 2: and then somewhere in the middle is the truth right

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Speaker 2: for me? It's getting both sides, making sure that the

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Speaker 2: customer fields heard, and then on the southwest side, they

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Speaker 2: need to clarify the rule publicly and visually. Customers want

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Speaker 2: measurable standards, not guesswork. If I know what size my

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Speaker 2: carry on bag can be because you're visually showing me

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Speaker 2: in a box seat, rules should feel just as objective.

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Speaker 2: I'm not saying show a person, but you have to

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Speaker 2: know exactly There should be measurable standards. They also need

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Speaker 2: to move the conversation online, not to the airport counter

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Speaker 2: seat size. Accommodation's decisions need to happen before travel, during

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Speaker 2: booking privately, never in line at baggage checks or when

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Speaker 2: you're checking to board right, and then you need to

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Speaker 2: train your staff on dignity language. Passengers don't object to

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Speaker 2: policies as much as they object to tone and how

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Speaker 2: they're treated. Language determines whether something feels procedural or personal.

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Speaker 2: We could all be a little bit calmer and nicer

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Speaker 2: and more polite when traveling, but you also need to

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Speaker 2: train people on how to interact with other people.

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Speaker 1: Do I think that's a matter of frustration though, as

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Speaker 1: a part of the employee goes, I don't we obviously

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Speaker 1: don't know what the interaction with these two people was.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the frustration and finally said okay, so pay up

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Speaker 1: or get the hell out of here. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't know how it worked.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm not there, right, but some passengers clearly

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Speaker 2: experienced it that way, and perception is what's going to

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Speaker 2: drive your reputation from a PR standpoint. Once multiple customers

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Speaker 2: describe an interaction as humiliating or inconsistent, that's a problem.

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Speaker 2: The airline has to treat that as communications failure in

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Speaker 2: their training, not just specific people. Whether or not discrimination

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Speaker 2: was intended or not, intent doesn't control the headline. The

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Speaker 2: experience does. And you're seeing the Southwest experience. Every single

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Speaker 2: thing that's happening to them is getting more and more

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Speaker 2: amplified about what's going on the Southwest, and they they

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Speaker 2: really just keep adding another notch in their belt.

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Speaker 1: Well, see, PR has to be really tough these days.

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Speaker 1: kJ based on because this guy who filed this suit

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Speaker 1: or whatever this complaint he's gotten I think hundreds of

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Speaker 1: thousands of views on TikTok and whatnot. So right there,

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Speaker 1: you've got a wildfire out of control.

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Speaker 2: You do, and the longer it takes you to a

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Speaker 2: state pablish a set policy, explain the policy clearly, show transparency,

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Speaker 2: and take ownership if there truly was an issue, the

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Speaker 2: more it's going to get out of control.

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Speaker 3: One one more quick question. I know, I know you're

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Speaker 3: not a lawyer, but does this I mean, but you

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Speaker 3: would have to if you were PR consulting or on

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Speaker 3: their PR team, you'd be involved in this. Hey, y'all,

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Speaker 3: is there potential legal ramifications here from this guy?

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Speaker 2: I mean, the United States is a sue happy culture.

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Speaker 2: There are potential legal ramifications in anything. Whether it's a

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Speaker 2: kangaroo court sort of situation or whether there's viability to it.

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Speaker 2: No one really knows until you get to that point, right,

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Speaker 2: But there are a lot of ways that you can

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Speaker 2: handle things before it gets to court, just by being

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Speaker 2: a decent human being and transparent with your messaging. If

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Speaker 2: they had apology in place and they clearly communicated it,

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Speaker 2: we wouldn't be in.

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Speaker 1: The situation, all right, kJ. Blattenbauer. We really appreciate you

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Speaker 1: joining us. People want to find out more about you.

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Speaker 1: Where can they go?

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Speaker 2: They can go to HEARSAYPR dot com h e A

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Speaker 2: R s A y p R dot com.

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Speaker 1: Great stuff, thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Awesome, thanks, thank you,