1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z, 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Boston's news radio a couple. 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 2: Of weeks ago during the eight o'clock hour, and what 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 2: I thought was a very interesting guest I was name 5 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 2: is John Miles, and John now joins us to talk 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:21,799 Speaker 2: about a couple of items that theoretically are a little different, 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 2: but I think actually have some point of intersection. John Miles, 8 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Nightside, sir. 9 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 3: How are you hey, Dan, Great to be here. How 10 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 3: are you tonight? 11 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 2: Well, we're doing We're doing fine so far. And I'm 12 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 2: hoping that people will understand that this is a topic 13 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,959 Speaker 2: that we haven't discussed, but it is, in my opinion, 14 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 2: it's an extraordinarily important topic. And we're talking about is 15 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 2: a trial. We're going to start off by talking about 16 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,959 Speaker 2: a trial that's going on in Los Angeles. Subsequent trials 17 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: are due to be commenced later, and the commonalty of 18 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: the these trials, both in state court and federal court, 19 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 2: are that plaintiffs have claimed that many of the social 20 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 2: media platforms have been designed to be addictive. At the 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 2: center of this are, for example, the CEO of Meta, 22 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 2: which is also at one point considered Facebook, Mark Zuckerberg, 23 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,639 Speaker 2: you also have at the center of this YouTube, and 24 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 2: you know some some of the some of the the 25 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: the the areas that a lot of young people just 26 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 2: spend so much time with. And that's what why this 27 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: trial is so important. This is a trial that's been 28 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 2: brought by a young woman, so it's a class action suit. 29 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 2: There are others who have joined here. You have talked 30 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 2: about an issue that we'll also talk about later, and 31 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 2: that is the concept of matter. You describe yourself as 32 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 2: a human performance expert. You're a best selling author. What 33 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,119 Speaker 2: is a human performance expert? I'm sure you don't go 34 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 2: with get a major in college on that. 35 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 4: Well, absolutely not. I don't think the Naval Academy teaches that. 36 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 3: But they do teach you. They do teach you. 37 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 4: A lot about leadership and how to motivate troops and 38 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 4: kind of the science behind that motivation and how to 39 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 4: get people to do what you desire them to do. 40 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 4: So in some ways I did get a little bit 41 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 4: of that going through that institution. 42 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: What year out of the Naval Academy out of Annapolis 43 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: were you? 44 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 3: I was ninety three, ninety three, Okay. 45 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: I have a very close friend of mine who was 46 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 2: graduated in nineteen seventy nine, So a little bit of 47 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: an age difference there, but again still a great education 48 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 2: at an Apple. As you you retired as a lieutenant commander, 49 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 2: you were wounded, I believe in service of the country. 50 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 2: And uh in in addition, you were you were hurt, 51 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: you were hit. I don't know how you survived this one. 52 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 2: You were hit by an RPG and in the Balkans 53 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 2: back in the late nineties, and then you had another 54 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 2: injury and and that short short shortened your your naval career. 55 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 2: But but I think I wanted, I certainly want to 56 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 2: acknowledge and say thank you for your service. The social 57 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: media giants meta snap TikTok YouTube and metas is Facebook 58 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 2: and Instagram, snap TikTok YouTube, they all are going to 59 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: at some point be standing trial, uh you know, basically 60 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: claims being brought by individuals or on behalf by parents, 61 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 2: on behalf of individuals. The trial in Los Angeles involves 62 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 2: a young woman who's not I identified. She goes by 63 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: the initials or the court is allowing her to be 64 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: presented by the initials as KGM, and she claims that 65 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 2: she created a YouTube at age eight account at age 66 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 2: eight she joined Instagram at age nine. She then joined 67 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 2: what is now TikTok at age ten and Snapchat at eleven. 68 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 2: My question is how much time would did she spend 69 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 2: and how much time did she not spend on her 70 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 2: school work. She claimed she became addicted to the social 71 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 2: media sites as a child and experienced anxiety, depression, and 72 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 2: body image issues as a result. This trial is ongoing. 73 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 2: There are other trials that are coming up that these 74 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 2: companies are facing as well. This could potentially change the 75 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 2: landscape depending upon how these trials come out to social 76 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 2: media platforms across the country. What is your view of 77 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 2: these platforms. Are they something that is so harmful that 78 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 2: there needs to be regulation or does the First Amendment 79 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 2: give them a right to put up stuff on the 80 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 2: Internet entertainment information which then can dominate the lives of 81 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 2: children who are eight, nine, ten, and eleven. 82 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 4: And I think you've got two sides of the argument. Obviously, 83 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 4: you've got the argument from Meta and the other tech 84 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 4: companies that what they're doing is completely legal. But I 85 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 4: would say so it's the same argument that the cigarettes 86 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 4: companies made decades ago. On the other side, you have 87 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 4: a number of growing experts. We're talking at these trials 88 00:05:55,520 --> 00:06:01,799 Speaker 4: talking about the counter narrative to what to meta YouTube 89 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 4: specifically in the LA trial are trying to discuss. But 90 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 4: my angle on this is I am trying to argue 91 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 4: that what these things are really doing is creating an 92 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 4: ecosystem that puts our human worth at stake. And you 93 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 4: were asking me about being a human performance expert. 94 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 3: I think what these. 95 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 4: Things are really attacking for kids like AGM is the 96 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 4: whole question of how they define worth and when that 97 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 4: starts infiltrating you when you're eight nine years old. 98 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 3: All of a. 99 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 4: Sudden, these platforms haven't just created a digital town square. 100 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 4: They build digital scorecards that displace the natural intrinsic marketplace 101 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 4: of our desire to matter, which. 102 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 2: Brings us to your concept of mattering. Let me just 103 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 2: slide back a little bit of a step here, and 104 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: with cigarettes, cigarettes were always I think people knew they 105 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 2: were dangerous. Cigarettes were intended for people who were over 106 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: a certain age. I know that they were kids who 107 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: were smoking when they were ten and eleven. I grew 108 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: up and there were kids who I knew who smoked 109 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 2: when they were ten and eleven. They weren't smoking two 110 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 2: or three packs a day, but they were getting hooked 111 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 2: on it, which makes the analogy to cigarettes very compelling 112 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 2: because these kids, again, this girl and others who have 113 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 2: come stepping forward as plaintiffs, they're hooked. They're hooked on 114 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: these platforms, and whether it's Snapchat or Instagram or Meta 115 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 2: or TikTok or whatever YouTube, they can't themselves away. They're hooked. 116 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: And you say that, then their self image is damaged 117 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 2: because they see people who they admire through these algorithms, 118 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 2: algorithms that hook them. I mean, this is big business 119 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 2: and the people who they're playing to for the most 120 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: part are kids. That makes it even in my opinion, 121 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 2: more dangerous than cigarettes or am I missing something. 122 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 3: No. 123 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 4: In the in the nineties, the filter that you and 124 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 4: I both saw pretty prevalent that was out there was 125 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 4: the filter of a market employee to make cigarettes seem safer. Today, 126 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 4: what we're seeing in this trial is a cosmetic filter, 127 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 4: which which is a design tool that makes the digital 128 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 4: experience feel more attractive, but it's internally causing quote unquote 129 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 4: like the cigarette respiratory damage to a child's self worth. 130 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 4: So tobacco companies added ammonia. You probably remember to speed 131 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 4: up nicotine delivery. Tech companies are using something called variable 132 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 4: reward algorithms, likes notifications, things like that to speed up 133 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 4: dopamine delivery. And what it's causing is just like secondhand 134 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 4: smoke that affected those who didn't even light up. 135 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 3: The digital casino. 136 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 4: Environment today that we have affects kids who aren't even 137 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 4: on the apps because they feel the social isolation from 138 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 4: their peers who were hooked. And in the case of 139 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 4: the poor young woman KGM in that trial, what they're 140 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 4: showing is that she was on these different applications as 141 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 4: much as sixteen hours a day. 142 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 2: Well, that's the point I raise as I read stories 143 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 2: about this trial, and I'm not an expert on it. 144 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 2: It said that she created a YouTube account at age eight, 145 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: she joined Instagram at nine, TikTok at ten, Snapchat at eleven. 146 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: I mean, how does she have any time for anything else? 147 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 2: And if she's doing this for sixteen hours a day, 148 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 2: I assume she's not getting a lot of sleep at night, 149 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 2: and I assume she's enrolled in school, so part of 150 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 2: her day maybe she's looking at these items while she's 151 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: in school. You can't do sixteen hours a day still sleep, eat. 152 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 2: That's a schedule that nobody can keep. Even Donald Trump 153 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: can't work effectively sixteen hours a day, although he seems 154 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 2: to work around the clock. You're talking about a little 155 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 2: girl who's ten or eleven years old. Do you have 156 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 2: any sense as to I mean, the fact that this 157 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 2: is at trial. Obviously, I'm sure the platforms filed motions 158 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 2: to dismiss at every opportunity. The fact that this is 159 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,479 Speaker 2: still a trial would say to me that these companies 160 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 2: are in potential jeopardy or am I overestimating over thinking that? 161 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 4: I think that they have a real issue on their 162 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 4: hand in both in both the Los Angeles trial and 163 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 4: the Santa fe H trial, which are attacking two different 164 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 4: aspects of this. The California cases we've been talking about 165 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 4: is really attacking defective design, which is leading to addiction. 166 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 4: It's like the slot machine argument that the features like 167 00:11:55,080 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 4: infinite scroll, auto play, twenty four x seven notifications are 168 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 4: attacking the same psychological mechanism used to hook gamblers and casinos. 169 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 4: But the New Mexico case is also saying that Meta 170 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 4: is operating a predator marketplace built on deception. So both 171 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 4: of these are I think are very problematic, and one 172 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 4: of the things that's problematic about both of them is 173 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 4: information that they're finding out that prosecutors are finding out 174 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 4: where in the New Mexican New Mexico case, they're alleging 175 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 4: that META knew that over five hundred thousand inappropriate interactions 176 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 4: with children were happening daily on the platform where they 177 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 4: knew adults we're talking to these kids. And in the 178 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 4: case of in the Los Angeles case, it's even worse 179 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 4: because they knew that there were millions and millions of 180 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 4: kids under thirteen who were using the platform, but they 181 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 4: had internal goals explicitly targeting increasing the daily average use 182 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 4: of those miners to forty six minutes per user. So 183 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 4: in both cases, they knew that they were targeting children 184 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 4: and they proceeded to continue to act even though they 185 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 4: knew this could cause potential harm. 186 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: Wow, that is shocking. My guest is John Miles, and 187 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,199 Speaker 2: he's a graduate of the Naval Academy, served this country, 188 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 2: retired as a lieutenant commander, was injured both in the 189 00:13:54,600 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 2: Balkans and also in a training exercise to invite those 190 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 2: of you who may have questions as to what all 191 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 2: this might mean, or who have opinions about what you 192 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 2: believe we're looking at here. I believe that these trials 193 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 2: have been below the radar, and my suspicion is they 194 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 2: are going to burst forward sometime in April with verdicts 195 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 2: and maybe awards, and of course all of that would 196 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: be appealed. This is going to, I think, have a 197 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 2: major impact, as it should on our country and our society, 198 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 2: and let's talk about it. Six one, seven, two, five, 199 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 2: four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. 200 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 2: I also want to John Miles talk about the concept 201 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 2: of mattering. You have a book that is already at 202 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: the I guess the Editors has already been designated as 203 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 2: a book that's coming out in October and has received 204 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 2: some advanced notice. I want to talk about the concept 205 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 2: of mattering. You've taken a word matter, which normally isn't 206 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 2: is used as a noun, but can also be used 207 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 2: as a verb, and have turned it into an active 208 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 2: verb of mattering. And part of this is that a 209 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 2: lot of these kids don't feel that they matter anymore 210 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 2: because they're they're interacting with people who they perceive to 211 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 2: be perfect. We'll get all of this, I promise, but 212 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 2: I want to hear from callers who may have a 213 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 2: perspective as well. Six one, seven, two, five, four, ten 214 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 2: thirty six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty. Does 215 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 2: this matter? It matters a lot. Back on Nightside after this. 216 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray, I'm w b Z, 217 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: Boston's news radio. 218 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 2: Well, I guess it's John Miles. This is an amazing 219 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 2: story to me. Why should this matter people? Well, listening 220 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 2: to the show tonight, I want to hear from people 221 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:09,479 Speaker 2: to who will either ask questions or join the concerns. 222 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 2: Why should it matter to people? What's happening to kids 223 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 2: who are eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve years old, particularly 224 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 2: if they don't have kids that age, or if they 225 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 2: are able to keep their kids off of these those 226 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: social media platforms. 227 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 4: So, Dan, some of these statistics that are out there, 228 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 4: if people haven't heard about them, are are just eye opening. 229 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 4: So according to the CDC, nearly half the teens in 230 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 4: the United States have persistent feelings of sadness or hopelessness. 231 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 4: Depression from kids eight through eighteen is up by forty 232 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 4: five percent since twenty sixteen, anxieties up by sixty one percent. 233 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 4: Youth mental health hospitalizations have increased by one hundred and 234 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 4: twenty four percent and almost one I guess almost four 235 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 4: out of ten young people report they don't feel like 236 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 4: they matter to others, and one in five adolescents has 237 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 4: now been diagnosed with a mental health or behavioral health condition. 238 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 4: Twenty percent of high schoolers are seriously considering suicide and 239 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,199 Speaker 4: almost ten percent have attempted it. 240 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 2: Ten percent of ten percent of American high school students 241 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 2: have attempted suicide. I mean, I I know of a 242 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 2: kid who I coached in the Little League who was 243 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 2: the happiest kid. This is go back. This goes back 244 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 2: now a few years ago, goes back quarter of a century, 245 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 2: and when he was eighteen, he committed suicide. Last kid 246 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 2: in the world that I would have expected if someone 247 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 2: had said to me, one of these kids that you 248 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 2: coached in these several years will commit suicide, would have 249 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 2: been the last one that I would have suspected. 250 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, if you look at this, it's similar to what's happening, 251 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 4: you know, with the veteran population, which I'm definitely part of. 252 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 4: But I had a classmate of mine do this TED talk. 253 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 4: And if you know anything about TED talks, they won't 254 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 4: let you do a TED talk unless unless they have 255 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 4: certified everything that the person's talking about. And we often 256 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 4: talk about the War on Terror and the five or 257 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 4: six thousand lifes that were lost, and this is particularly 258 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 4: important given what's going on in the Middle East right now. 259 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 4: But what my friend found was that over those same 260 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 4: twenty years, there were almost one hundred and fifty thousand 261 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 4: veterans who committed suicide. And even though over the past 262 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 4: three to four decades, the VA is pouring more and 263 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 4: more money into suicide prevention, just like we're trying to 264 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 4: do the same thing with teams, the numbers keep going up, 265 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 4: and I think it's all interrelated. 266 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, the statistic that I'm aware of, and I've done 267 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 2: work with some of the veterans organizations as well, about 268 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 2: twenty two veterans per day commit suicide. And if you've 269 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 2: multiplied that figure per day over one calendar year, all 270 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 2: of a sudden, that figure has become substantially just you're 271 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 2: talking about seven thousand very easily. I'm just trying to 272 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 2: do I messed up a calculator here, but I'll tell 273 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 2: you that if twenty two veterans are committing suicide every 274 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 2: day in a year, you're going to have eight thousand 275 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 2: and over twenty years. That's really easy. Eight times twenty 276 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 2: eight thousand times twenty is one hundred and sixty thousand people. 277 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 2: So those numbers that you're quoting are very very realistic. 278 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 4: And that doesn't and that doesn't count active duty. Yeah, 279 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 4: but you were asking why does this matter so much? 280 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 2: Let me hold you there, if it's okay with you, John, 281 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 2: I got to take a break for news at the 282 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 2: bottom of the hour. We'll come back to the whole 283 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 2: question of why does it matter so much? Obviously, every 284 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 2: individual child matters, And I was asking that almost rhetorically 285 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 2: because I'm hoping that my audience will rise to the 286 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 2: a case here, and I acknowledge that what many of 287 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 2: us thought was, well, the kids are on the computer, 288 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 2: give mom and dad a little bit of a break, 289 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 2: and they're going to spend some time. And you know, 290 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 2: I have young grandchildren who who will watch a grandson 291 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 2: who wants to watch train videos and it's like he's 292 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 2: mesmerized by trains. But if I find out that when 293 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 2: he's six or seven, he's he's deciding that he's spending 294 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 2: more time on things like YouTube and TikTok, that's when 295 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 2: granddad will be will be very active, and he will 296 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 2: become a much more of a pain of the neck 297 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 2: that I'm sure he already is. But we'll deal with that. 298 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 2: I invite people to join us six one seven, two, five, 299 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 2: four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty. 300 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 2: If you don't think this matters, this is a generation 301 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 2: of young people that could become truly a lost generation. 302 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 2: And just think of forget the tr you know, obviously 303 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 2: consider the tragedies, but we're talking about your SoC security payments. 304 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 2: If you're in your forties and fifties, depend upon this 305 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 2: generation that's coming along now to be productive and to 306 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: work and to earn livings and not be people who 307 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,959 Speaker 2: are in need of helped from society, but people who 308 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 2: can help society. So believe me, think this through, folks. 309 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 2: Six one seven, two, five, four ten thirty six one 310 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 2: seven ninety three one ten thirty. My name is Dan Ray. 311 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 2: My guess is John Mills Miles. Excuse me. He is 312 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 2: a Annapolis graduate served in the US Navy, was a 313 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 2: hit by an RPG in the Balkans back in the 314 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 2: late teen in the nineteen nineties late nineteen nineties, and 315 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 2: actually went back to service and then was was injured 316 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 2: in a training accident as well. His concept is mattering. 317 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,719 Speaker 2: How do we make young people feel their important and 318 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 2: that they matter. That's and for me it was always 319 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 2: sports activities for kids. The more kids had sports activities, 320 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 2: and I don't care what the sport was, it could 321 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 2: it also could be theater, it could be dance, it 322 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 2: could be anything. You build up a self worth, you matter. 323 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 2: Kids who were sitting in front of screens for sixteen 324 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 2: hours a day at the age of eight, nine, ten 325 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 2: or eleven, there's not much that's gonna help them feel important. 326 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 2: They are simply an observer and not a participant in life. 327 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 2: We'll be back on night Side. You're hearing me talk 328 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 2: too much. I need to hear from you. Coming back 329 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 2: on Nightside. 330 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's news Radio. 331 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 2: My guess is John Miles, I retired lieutenant commander from 332 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 2: the US Navy, and he is talking about a concept 333 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 2: of mattering. John, I want to get the calls and 334 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 2: we'll continue our conversation, but I want to incorporate the listeners. 335 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 2: If there's anything you want to add before we go 336 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 2: to calls, feel free. 337 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think just before we go to the call. 338 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 4: Since we've brought up mattering, it's important to define what 339 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 4: it is and why it relates to what we're talking 340 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 4: about here with these social media companies. So at our core, 341 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 4: we all need to feel like we're seeing known and 342 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 4: appreciated for who we are, not for our likes or 343 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 4: our filters, but for our inherent worth. But mattering is 344 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 4: also the need to know that we contribute, that if 345 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 4: we didn't show up today, someone would notice. And so 346 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 4: what's happening here is mattering is death. It's about being 347 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 4: significant to the people who truly know you. But what's 348 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 4: happening is social media provides attention. And the tragedy of 349 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 4: the meta trial is that these companies have convinced our 350 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 4: children that attention is the substitute for mattering. But attention 351 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 4: is like salt water. The more you drink, the thirst 352 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 4: ear you get. 353 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 2: Pretty good analogy from the Navy guy that I like that. 354 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:17,919 Speaker 2: Let's get to some phone calls here. Let me go 355 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 2: to Nick, Nick, Nick, welcome. Wait a second here, Okay, Nick, 356 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 2: we'll get back to Nick in a moment. Let me 357 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 2: go to Jim and Jimmy and Ashland. Hey, Jimmy, how 358 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 2: are you tonight. Welcome. 359 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 3: All right, I'm being better. 360 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 5: But besides the point, I'm not talking about the military, 361 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,880 Speaker 5: but this meta stuff, and it's it's the old We're 362 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 5: gonna blame somebody else. The parents are paying for the 363 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 5: internet connections, they're paying for the phones, they're paying for 364 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 5: the tablets. It's easy to cut off. When you were 365 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 5: a kid smoking cigarette. 366 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 2: I wasn't smoking Oh whoa, whoa, I wasn't smoking cigarettes. 367 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 2: I knew some friends of mine who would smoke cigarettes. 368 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 2: I gotta tell you something. I wanted to play a 369 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 2: lot of sports as kids as a kid, and I 370 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 2: always thought smoking stunted your growth. I never and my 371 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 2: dad was a two pack of day. I couldn't stand 372 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 2: the smell of smoke. Cigarettes. That's the one that is 373 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 2: like one of the one of the vices that I 374 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 2: never got involved. Go ahead, go ahead, I'm sorry. 375 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 5: Go ahead, but I never smoked. But I mean, if 376 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 5: it's the old thing, like you said, I loved going 377 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 5: out outside. Man of what it was throwing snowballs at 378 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 5: each other or I'm playing tag or whatever. But but 379 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 5: it was it was just my uh you know, my 380 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 5: way again nothing but you used to call it the 381 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 5: boom Tube because the kids wouldn't come out and play 382 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 5: and their parents let them sit there and watch TV 383 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 5: all day. Isn't it the same thing? 384 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 2: Okay, let let's get let let's get John two, who 385 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 2: responded that I think that's a pretty good comment. Now, 386 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,360 Speaker 2: the problem is that the kid is an old enough 387 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,719 Speaker 2: to really figure out what's going on, and if the 388 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,959 Speaker 2: parent doesn't have enough interest. It would be like if 389 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 2: the kid was out of the backyard smoking cigarettes at 390 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 2: eight or nine and the parents said, I'll let them 391 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 2: go they enjoy themselves. I mean, you'd have social services 392 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 2: showing up at the front door and they'd be putting 393 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 2: the kid into the kids into foster gear. John, go 394 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 2: right ahead. 395 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 3: So you're asking, basically, why don't the parents just take 396 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 3: the device away? 397 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 6: Yeah, well that's what I think, Jimmy shot about I 398 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 6: was I was at a restaurant at the other day 399 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 6: for my sixth birthday body, and there was a couple 400 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 6: there with the really young kids, and they both had 401 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 6: their their their tablets with the protector. 402 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 5: Around it because they throw them or whatever. They were 403 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 5: like one or two or three. 404 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 2: Make a lot of sense, Jim, these are good That's 405 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 2: a good question. A good comment. John Gorett ahead say, 406 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 2: I had to Jimmy from Ashland to Massachusetts. 407 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 3: Hey, Jimmy, nice to meet you, they said, I appreciated 408 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 3: my nephew's a marine right now, So, Jimmy. One of 409 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 3: the things that that is at play here is a 410 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 3: child's brain at the age that they're consuming this technology 411 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 3: is biologically mismatched for. 412 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 4: It, meaning there's this part of the brain called the 413 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 4: ventral well basically, without getting too technical, it's part of 414 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 4: the prefrontal cortex, basically the breaks for impulse control, and 415 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 4: it's not fully developed until we're twenty five. 416 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 3: So when you are telling a parent to. 417 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 4: Just take a device away, it's like asking them to 418 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 4: try to stop a Ferrari with bicycle breaks. 419 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 2: And this is done. 420 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 3: We're expecting children to. 421 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 4: Assert a level of willpower, power that their biology hasn't 422 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 4: even built yet, against a training dollars supercomputer that's being 423 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 4: built specifically to bypass those very breaks. 424 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 2: So doesn't that then put the obligation on the parent 425 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 2: more than doesn't that actually put if if the kid 426 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 2: can't which they can't control themselves, isn't it up to 427 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 2: the parent to recognize that this their child has has 428 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 2: a real serious problem, and and and intervention has to occur. 429 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 3: Well, I think that's part of it. 430 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 4: The best thing is to not give them the phone 431 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 4: until they're probably fourteen or fifteen years old. 432 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 2: If they sure, yeah, no, I'm with you on now. 433 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 5: Well before that, I would have got a swick kick 434 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 5: in the la zoo get outside. 435 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I'm beginning to think that on this one, John, 436 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 2: that that we got to we got to bring the 437 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 2: parents into responsibility. We just had this case dout in 438 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 2: Georgia where the guy who bought a gun for his 439 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 2: kid even though he had reason to believe that the 440 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 2: kid was not too stable. He was convicted today and 441 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 2: is facing I guess some very long prison sentence, like 442 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 2: forty years for an effect being the equivalent of an accessory. 443 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 2: His kid killed four other students in high school. That's 444 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 2: a case that's been that I've been following a little bit. 445 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 2: I mean, there are some there are some you know, 446 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 2: responsibilities that come with parenthood that there's no manual that's 447 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 2: what you know, how to drive, how to grow a kid. 448 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 2: But I'm thinking Jimmy's got a pretty good point, John, 449 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 2: What do you what do you think? 450 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 4: Well, what the I mean, what he's saying is exactly 451 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 4: the Zuckerberg defense. What they're saying in both trials is 452 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 4: we disclose, We don't de see, We tell the user 453 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 4: that there's bad content, we provide parental tools. My counter 454 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 4: argument would be a warning label on a lead painted 455 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 4: toy doesn't make the toy safe. Right, the core design 456 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 4: of the product is meant to bypass a child's impulse 457 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 4: control or a teenager's impulse control, then the disclosure is 458 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 4: a sham. Okay, fair enough, and so no matter, no 459 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 4: matter what the parents are trying to do, I think 460 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,959 Speaker 4: it's still I think the core issues still rest on 461 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 4: the product designers and the behavioral scientists were specifically building 462 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 4: these products knowing how to bypass impulse control. 463 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 7: No. 464 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 2: Look, if I'm on the jury, I'm with you, okay, 465 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,479 Speaker 2: So trust me for that. Jimmy, you raise great points. 466 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 2: You would have been a great defense lawyer. Okay, thank you. 467 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 2: Ready to talk to you soon. Be back back on 468 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 2: night Side. We'll get both Nick and Steve in here. 469 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 2: Two good callers coming up. 470 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's News Radio. 471 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 2: My guess it's John Miles. We're talking about social media 472 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 2: platforms and the concept of mattering. Nick is in Winchester. Nick, 473 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 2: how you doing, buddy. 474 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 3: Hey Carl. A little bit of a setback, but nothing's 475 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 3: gonna stop me. 476 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 2: Nothing nothing stops Nick. Nick is calling from a hospital bed. 477 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 2: You're unbelievable. 478 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I just want to call in and say 479 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 3: hello and keep on doing what you're doing. 480 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 2: Brother, Well, I but I want you to get better 481 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 2: and and just stay strong. I sent you a text earlier, 482 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 2: so yes, stay strong. You're in great medical Hens and 483 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 2: it's a setback, but guess what, Tomorrow's a better day. Okay, 484 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,959 Speaker 2: that's brother, Thanks, Thanks, thank you, and all your night 485 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 2: side listeners keep keep the charge going for there's a 486 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 2: lot of prayers coming up for you, Nick, trust me 487 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 2: on that. Okay, even more than Nick, be well, Thank you, 488 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 2: talk to you soon. Good night. Wow, that's a courageous guy. 489 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 2: Let me go to Steve and Cambridge. Steve, say ad 490 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 2: to my guest John Miles, John mattering. 491 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 8: Go ahead, Steve, Dan, and a shout out to Nick. John. 492 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 8: We live in a very litigious society. We are always 493 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 8: looking for someone else to blame. We're always lawyers' attorneys. 494 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 8: And Dan will know this. He's in the profession. He's 495 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 8: not one of them, but he's in the profession. Are 496 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 8: always looking for a deep pocket, and they are always 497 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 8: a multitude of expert witnesses who are willing to testify 498 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 8: for the plaintiff. 499 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:50,959 Speaker 4: Uh. 500 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 8: These are all things that I think factor very heavily 501 00:33:54,720 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 8: into this trial with meta your comment, John, Well. 502 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 4: I'm not gonna disagree with you that they have expert 503 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 4: witnesses here. I'll bring up a person who is not 504 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,760 Speaker 4: one of the expert witnesses, similar to Dan. I interview 505 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 4: a lot of people. I've interviewed at this point over 506 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 4: one thousand different different people, many of them are leading scientists. 507 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 4: And one of those people I interviewed was doctor Anna Lemke, 508 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:40,279 Speaker 4: who's a Stanford psychiatrist and author of a book called 509 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 4: Dopamine Nation. And what we were really talking about in 510 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:52,760 Speaker 4: that conversation was how what these social acts are doing 511 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:58,280 Speaker 4: is they're really going after the brain's pleasure pain balance, 512 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 4: especially for kids. And what's happening to them, as doctor 513 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 4: Lemke explained and explains in her book, is today's environment 514 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 4: is getting drugified. And why that's happening is because there's 515 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:24,759 Speaker 4: unprecedented access novelty and engineering going on in these systems 516 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:33,320 Speaker 4: that are causing the impact that it's having on the users. Now, 517 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 4: for our previous caller, there is some blame here on 518 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:45,720 Speaker 4: the parents giving access to the devices at an age 519 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 4: that's below the age that a child should probably be 520 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 4: using this devices. But I also think that there is 521 00:35:54,480 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 4: culpability in the companies because they're designing these tools to 522 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 4: those directly after the drugification that doctor Lemke talks about 523 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 4: in her books and in her courses. 524 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:16,360 Speaker 8: That's an allegation that doctor Lemkey poses. It's again something 525 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 8: that we've seen over and over again. The cigarette companies 526 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 8: addict people, the gambling companies addict people, the sugar companies 527 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 8: addict people. It's always someone else's fault, generally with a 528 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:37,320 Speaker 8: deep pocket. And again there's no dearth of expert witnesses 529 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 8: who will come and testify for the plaintiff's attorneys. Listen, John, 530 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,800 Speaker 8: I just got off the train from New York. The train, 531 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,879 Speaker 8: I would say that almost every person on the train, 532 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,399 Speaker 8: I would say ninety eighty to ninety percent of those 533 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 8: people were transfixed by their laptops. Probably sixty percent of 534 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,760 Speaker 8: them had air buds, so they were also listening to music. 535 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 2: Or night side, Steve Ye are night side. 536 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 8: They've also got their their cell phone in their hand, uh, 537 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 8: which they can play games on. Are these people all 538 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 8: Is it all the fault of the social media companies. 539 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 2: That Steve adults? John's talking about kids. 540 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 8: Well, yeah, but the adults. One of the reasons that 541 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:33,719 Speaker 8: the kids are addicted is because the adults are themselves 542 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 8: transfixed and hypnotized, uh and don't assert any of their 543 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 8: own willpower to put these devices down once in a while, 544 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:43,720 Speaker 8: and they give them to their kids. 545 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 2: Well, they have a choice, and I doubt. 546 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 8: They do jo choices to give the kids. I've seen 547 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 8: kids with laptops that their parents bought them, kids that 548 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 8: are three or four years old, But. 549 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 2: The kids don't have a chance to disengage. I think 550 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 2: with John on am I right or wrong? In that 551 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 2: the kids do not have the capacity to disengage. Would 552 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 2: be like if the parents were cocaine addicts and they 553 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 2: were letting the kids snort cocaine. 554 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 8: They don't disengage either, Dave Dan Okay, John, I mean, 555 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 8: you're what you're saying is absolutely correct about the parents. 556 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 4: I mean, we've gone from heroin level addiction to know 557 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 4: old TV and Internet to fentanyl level potency with smartphones 558 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 4: and now are growing consumption of AI. And you're also correct, 559 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,399 Speaker 4: and I've just spent the past seventy eight years investigating 560 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 4: this that what is happening is exactly. 561 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 3: What you are describing. 562 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 4: Is we are knowingly or unknowingly passing this down from 563 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 4: one generation to the next. And we wonder why the 564 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 4: levels of anxiety and depression and loneliness and burnout amongst 565 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:07,239 Speaker 4: our youth are irocketing because effective neuroscience shows that kids 566 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 4: develop their sense of worth by mirroring what they see 567 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 4: with adults. And if all they see our adults the environment, 568 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 4: they're going to pass it down. 569 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 2: Gentlemen, I hate to do this, but we are flat 570 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 2: out of time. As a matter of fact, we're already 571 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,879 Speaker 2: going into the newscast Steve, John and Dan. 572 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 8: Thank you very much. 573 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,239 Speaker 2: Love the call, Steve. You know that John, we will 574 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:33,799 Speaker 2: have you back. The book Mattering comes out and in October. 575 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 2: Please let's make sure that we do something on this 576 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,839 Speaker 2: in late September so people get the book as well. 577 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 3: Okay, Dan, thanks for having me. 578 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 4: Thank you really appreciate it. 579 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 3: The callers and the discussion, thank you very very much. 580 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 2: The callers in the line. I'll carry this into the 581 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 2: eleven if you want to stay there. Thank you, John, 582 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 2: we'll talk again. Thank you very much. Here comes to 583 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 2: news everybody. 584 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: It's nice Side with Dan Ray I WBS Boston's new radio. 585 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,239 Speaker 2: Thank my guest last hour with John Miles. We're talking 586 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 2: about social media platforms and what impact they're having on kids, 587 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,839 Speaker 2: particularly young kids eight, nine, ten, eleven years old. There's 588 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 2: a big trial going on in Los Angeles right now 589 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,560 Speaker 2: where a lot of the titans of the social media 590 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 2: platform world have been called as witnesses, their defendants, their 591 00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,280 Speaker 2: companies and defendants. This could be a big game changer. 592 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,680 Speaker 2: We got some folks that are holding over from last hour, 593 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 2: So I do want to get to Iran and what's 594 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 2: going on over there tonight and what went on today. 595 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 2: But in the meantime, let's get to everybody who's holding 596 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 2: on and again, if the audience wants to stick with this, 597 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 2: we can stick with this. Janet in Rowley, Hey, Janet, 598 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 2: welcome you next night's side. I wish I could have 599 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 2: got you on with John Miles, but we are. We 600 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 2: no longer have him with us. But what's your take 601 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:56,759 Speaker 2: on all of this? 602 00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,959 Speaker 9: All right, well, thank you anyway, Dan, I love your show, 603 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 9: Thank you, and will still manage to get through to 604 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:07,240 Speaker 9: John Miles because my topic actually relates to his former 605 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 9: career in the Navy. And on the topic of yes, 606 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 9: social media, but I find an area that isn't being 607 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 9: talked about but has to be is not just the 608 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 9: social media, but how kids are accessing it on wireless 609 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:28,839 Speaker 9: to the devices emitting dangerous amounts of EMF radiation. And 610 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 9: there's a really crucial fact that most people don't know 611 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 9: is that we all assume the FCC is watching out 612 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 9: for us, but they are out of compliance by a 613 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 9: US just trick court for not keeping updated with their 614 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,280 Speaker 9: guidelines since nineteen ninety seven. 615 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,320 Speaker 2: What exactly is EMF I'm. 616 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 9: Sorry, Yeah, electromagnetic field radiation. It's also called RF as 617 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 9: in radio frequency radiation. 618 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 2: So people, are you talking about wireless communications? 619 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 7: Yes? 620 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,720 Speaker 2: So the cell phone? Just to make it people understand 621 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,240 Speaker 2: the cell phone that I'm holding in my hand, Yes, 622 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 2: what damage can that do to me or to other people? 623 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:11,319 Speaker 3: Yeah? 624 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 9: Good question. 625 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:12,479 Speaker 10: A lot. 626 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,240 Speaker 9: The list is long, it's backed by a lot of science. 627 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 9: So before I list some of the symptoms and the damage, 628 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,600 Speaker 9: I want to make sure you know that I am 629 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 9: not the expert. I'm a liaison to the experts, and 630 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 9: I want to give you at least one source source 631 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 9: of information. First one here in Massachusetts. It's called Massachusetts 632 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 9: for Safe Technology, run by CC Doucett, who gives rewhip. 633 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 2: Why don't you do this janit, which I think might 634 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,320 Speaker 2: be easier. Why don't you leave that information, whatever contact 635 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:46,239 Speaker 2: information you have. 636 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 9: I will, I will, I'll do that. But that you 637 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,840 Speaker 9: asked what damage it does? It caused mitochondrial damage, electron damage, 638 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 9: DNA damage, and the symptoms range from headaches, depression, tech 639 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 9: a cardia. 640 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,279 Speaker 2: And I think we have gone to a to an 641 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 2: offshoot of our conversation. 642 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,680 Speaker 9: So I, well, it's how kids are accessing social media. 643 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 9: It's usually on wireless, but it's not being addressed. 644 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,920 Speaker 2: I understand why. That's why I don't want to do 645 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,200 Speaker 2: it just in the context of a phone call. Yeah, yeah, unprepared. 646 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,160 Speaker 2: And what I prefer you to do is leave the 647 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,239 Speaker 2: contact person. And as a matter of fact, if you're 648 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 2: friends with the contact person, let him know that I 649 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,320 Speaker 2: might reach out to them. I remember when cell phones 650 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,600 Speaker 2: first came along, Oh, I would say in the in 651 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,920 Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties, there was a lot of people who 652 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 2: are concerned about brain cancer and all of that. Yes, 653 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,719 Speaker 2: and look, all of us have spent a lot of 654 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,239 Speaker 2: time on cell phones, and I hope that that that 655 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:47,920 Speaker 2: is not true. I don't know what, but I'll be 656 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,759 Speaker 2: happy to talk with whatever expert you want to put 657 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:51,440 Speaker 2: us in touch with. 658 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,719 Speaker 9: Yes, I think she would be. She speaks publicly all 659 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,439 Speaker 9: the time. She would be an excellent guest, So I'll happy. 660 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 9: I'll give that to your Rob is. 661 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,919 Speaker 2: Going to pick up, pick up the line, and then 662 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 2: Rob will give me the information, her name, her organization, 663 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 2: and Rob will put in a phone number and I'll 664 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:11,960 Speaker 2: reach out to them. 665 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,120 Speaker 9: Okay, great, because there's ways we can reduce our damage 666 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,800 Speaker 9: and are our risks to damage? Yeah, there are ways, 667 00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 9: very concrete ones. 668 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:21,399 Speaker 8: Yep. 669 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 9: We just need to know the facts. 670 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,120 Speaker 2: All right, Thank you, Jane, appreciate it. Rob will pick 671 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:26,560 Speaker 2: up now. In the meantime, we're going to go to 672 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,799 Speaker 2: Mike and Hyde Park. Mike, you're next on Night Side. 673 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,239 Speaker 2: If you want to follow up what John Miles had 674 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 2: to say, feel free. 675 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,560 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, what Hey, Hey Dan Hawai, thank you. 676 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,680 Speaker 4: I didn't catch everything that John had to say, but 677 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,880 Speaker 4: one thing that observed. I've been involved in discussions on this. 678 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,320 Speaker 4: You know about kids in the social media there and 679 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,240 Speaker 4: their phone they're accessing it, and I agree everything you said, 680 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,440 Speaker 4: but just for my own observations, I find that the 681 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:58,040 Speaker 4: adults are are just as addicted, and I want I'm 682 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 4: curious if there was any he's not on now understand it, 683 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,480 Speaker 4: and he studies that as we get older people you 684 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,960 Speaker 4: are as stand and I'm about the same age that 685 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 4: when I look at social media, that's the people that 686 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 4: are really going to be addicted that every day you're 687 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 4: posting something argumentative on their side, back and forth, back 688 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 4: and forth. So it's funny I find people in their 689 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,600 Speaker 4: fifty sixty seventies time of the kids today. But I 690 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,880 Speaker 4: find that the seen you know, middle aged slash senior 691 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 4: people are more addicted and can't get off it as 692 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:30,840 Speaker 4: much as the kids. 693 00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:32,320 Speaker 10: That's just my own observation. 694 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 2: Well, you might be right an data on that, yeah, 695 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,719 Speaker 2: you might be right. Again, John probably would have more 696 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,480 Speaker 2: more insight into that than I do. I can tell 697 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,080 Speaker 2: you that it's part of my job because I end 698 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,480 Speaker 2: up most of the day I try to get a 699 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 2: workout in at the gym, try to grab a lunch 700 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 2: or something and try to live a life. But I 701 00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 2: got to tell you, my day doesn't start at eight 702 00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,280 Speaker 2: o five pm. My day starts at about nine o'clock 703 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 2: in the morning. Most of my friends don't quite understand that. 704 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,000 Speaker 2: But as a consequence of that, yeah, I'm on computers, 705 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:10,440 Speaker 2: I'm in dealing with emails and you know, a lot 706 00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 2: of that stuff the Janet was referring to gave me 707 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:18,319 Speaker 2: great pause early in the century. And you know, I 708 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 2: have no idea, You have no idea what the implications 709 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:24,000 Speaker 2: of any of this stuff might be. But I do 710 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,400 Speaker 2: think that most of us have been exposed now to 711 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,560 Speaker 2: computers and cell phones for what twenty twenty five years? 712 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,560 Speaker 2: Would you say, And yeah, I would agree. 713 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,480 Speaker 4: It's like we kind of heard the same thing about 714 00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:36,879 Speaker 4: microwaves and it came out too. 715 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:43,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still if I use my microwave, this is 716 00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,600 Speaker 2: I'm down. I guess I am if I use my microwave, 717 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,320 Speaker 2: and I'm going for thirty seconds. I put in thirty 718 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,320 Speaker 2: all of that and then I get to the side 719 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,279 Speaker 2: of it. So when I hit start, I'm not in 720 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,200 Speaker 2: front of it. 721 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 4: Hey, I was just I was commenting more on the 722 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 4: addictive nature we talk about kids, and my observation adults 723 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:06,200 Speaker 4: are just as ad. 724 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:09,200 Speaker 3: Sold the kids. 725 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:13,560 Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, no, Look, I can sit when I finished 726 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,319 Speaker 2: the show. Some nights if all of a sudden I 727 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,719 Speaker 2: see some funny video. Uh. And it can be you know, 728 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,560 Speaker 2: something as simple as a as a center field or 729 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,520 Speaker 2: you know, running into a wall trying to catch a 730 00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:27,240 Speaker 2: ball ball game, or you know some picture throws behind 731 00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,480 Speaker 2: a batter and you know that's that's the sort of 732 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 2: thing that what's the next one? And that's and that's 733 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,840 Speaker 2: what they want. I don't understand how they're making money 734 00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,920 Speaker 2: because I'm not you know, I'm not buying much on 735 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,600 Speaker 2: the internet. But I don't know. Hey, look, Mike, great 736 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,920 Speaker 2: great call. Thank you for bringing me back on on 737 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,160 Speaker 2: topic here, and I hope you continue to call Nightside 738 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:51,799 Speaker 2: and listen to Nightside. Thank you so much. 739 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,239 Speaker 3: All right, absolutely, you very much. All right. 740 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,160 Speaker 2: Let me let me wrap this section and maybe the 741 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,640 Speaker 2: segment with on from Newton. Hey, Ron, I hope you 742 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,280 Speaker 2: had a John Miles. 743 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:05,959 Speaker 3: Hey, Hi, Ron, I did. 744 00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:10,000 Speaker 10: He was a great guest. I just I called in 745 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,760 Speaker 10: because I wanted to back up what he was saying 746 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:17,920 Speaker 10: in terms of from a neurophysiologic basis. This well known 747 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,279 Speaker 10: has been studied for a long time. Actually have a 748 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:25,360 Speaker 10: period viewed article from October of twenty twenty five in 749 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,440 Speaker 10: front of me. But it's been it's been well known 750 00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:34,000 Speaker 10: that the dopamine our reward system, and it works. This 751 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,680 Speaker 10: is impacts not only the kids but also the adults. 752 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:41,319 Speaker 10: What happens is we see something that we like or 753 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,319 Speaker 10: were impacted by it, and we get a surge of dopamine. 754 00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:50,120 Speaker 10: Our body tries to defend itself and it down regulates 755 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:57,240 Speaker 10: the receptors. And that deficiency that our body subsequently feels 756 00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,560 Speaker 10: caused us to have a craving to do more of 757 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:04,080 Speaker 10: the same thing. And that's what addictive aspect of it is. 758 00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,120 Speaker 10: And they are now also showing that this is what 759 00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:12,920 Speaker 10: is impacting some of some of the crazy compulsive driving behaviors. 760 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:13,920 Speaker 3: And so. 761 00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:22,080 Speaker 10: There's there's a there's a notion that neurons that fired 762 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:27,000 Speaker 10: together wired together. It's just a it makes sense. 763 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:32,359 Speaker 2: I mean, it makes sense, you know it does when 764 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,920 Speaker 2: you think about it. For me, the best dopament I 765 00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,480 Speaker 2: get during the days that I get to work out 766 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,799 Speaker 2: at the gym. You always got to push yourself to 767 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,520 Speaker 2: get into the gym. Once you're in there, you get 768 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,400 Speaker 2: kind of going, you get rolling, but then when you 769 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,160 Speaker 2: come out and you hit the car, you realize you 770 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,000 Speaker 2: did a good thing. You spend forty five minutes, they 771 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,480 Speaker 2: probably the most forty five most productive forty five minutes 772 00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:58,360 Speaker 2: of my day, and you feel good about. 773 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:04,320 Speaker 10: It, absolutely, And that's the basis. Can yeah, same the same, 774 00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:07,960 Speaker 10: the same logic mechanism. 775 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:12,279 Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't have the tools today to we have 776 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:16,160 Speaker 7: the tools like the positive emission tomography too, so that 777 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,840 Speaker 7: we can actually see which parts of. 778 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,840 Speaker 10: The brain light up when people are viewing these. 779 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:22,319 Speaker 3: Yeah. 780 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:28,880 Speaker 2: So they have that really interesting, interesting topic. And thanks 781 00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:34,680 Speaker 2: thanks Ron for for checking in, and uh we we 782 00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,840 Speaker 2: had some pretty good conversation. There's a challenging topic because 783 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,960 Speaker 2: a lot of my audience probably says that they don't 784 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,480 Speaker 2: feel they're impacted by it, but it's a very important 785 00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:45,240 Speaker 2: topic Ron as well as. 786 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,480 Speaker 10: Thanks thanks Buddy, thank you. 787 00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,799 Speaker 2: Thanks by'm bye bye bye. Okay, Well we come back 788 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,600 Speaker 2: and we have a very short break here six one 789 00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,640 Speaker 2: seven thirty six one seven thirty let's have at it 790 00:50:57,719 --> 00:50:59,799 Speaker 2: right after the quick break, coming back on night side