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Speaker 1: We'll talk Hannor Green's injury and its impact on the

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Speaker 1: red starting rotation with our guy Jeff Carr coming up

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Speaker 1: at five oh five, and a little bit later on

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Speaker 1: a Bengals free agency overview with our man James Erpeene.

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Speaker 1: All that coming up in the five o'clock hour. I

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Speaker 1: am not necessarily a Larry Bird fan. As a Knicks fan,

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Speaker 1: I kind of can't be. And I'm not an Indiana

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Speaker 1: State basketball fan, and I'm not old enough to remember

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Speaker 1: the nineteen seventy nine NCAA Tournament title game between Indiana

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Speaker 1: State and Michigan State. And yet the best sports book

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Speaker 1: I have read so far this year is about those

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Speaker 1: two things. It's written by Keith O'Brien, who we've had

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Speaker 1: in the show before because he wrote a book about

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Speaker 1: Pete Rose called Charlie Hustle, which I think is the

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Speaker 1: best Pete Rose book ever written. Keith's latest project is

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Speaker 1: called Heartland, A Forgotten Place and Impossible Dream and the

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Speaker 1: Miracle of Larry Bird. Keith is going to be in

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Speaker 1: town for two different events coming up this weekend, so

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Speaker 1: he's going to be discussing the book, signing the book,

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Speaker 1: and a great chance to meet one of the best

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Speaker 1: sportsbook authors. We have Friday at the Fort Thomas Branch

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Speaker 1: of the Campbell County Public Library. That's going to be

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Speaker 1: at seven o'clock, and then on Saturday at Joseph Beth

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Speaker 1: Bookseller's five pm. Keithob dot com to get more information.

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Speaker 1: Keith O'Brien is with us. Keith, I love this book.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for the time.

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Speaker 2: How are you. I'm great, No, thanks for having me

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Speaker 2: back again. Great to be with.

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Speaker 1: You, Great to be great to have you. Why this

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Speaker 1: project right? Because there are a few sports figures who

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Speaker 1: have been written about and talked about as much as

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Speaker 1: Larry Bird, and so my first takeaway when I found

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Speaker 1: out about the project was, all right, Keith has written

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Speaker 1: a book about Larry Bird, and he's obviously the central figure,

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Speaker 1: but it goes beyond that.

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Speaker 3: Why this project, Well, I just feel like we've been

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Speaker 3: telling the Larry birds story the wrong way all these years.

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Speaker 3: You know, every time someone comes to this story, they

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Speaker 3: always end up doing the Bird magic thing, the Larry

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Speaker 3: Bird magic Johnson story.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I get it.

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Speaker 3: I understand why you would tell the story that way.

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Speaker 3: Of course, Bird and Magic are going to play against

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Speaker 3: each other. In March nineteenth nine in that most watched

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Speaker 3: television basketball game you just mentioned, and then they're going

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Speaker 3: to go on to define and save the NBA in

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Speaker 3: the nineteen eighties.

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Speaker 2: So I do get it.

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Speaker 3: But when you tell the story that way, you end

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Speaker 3: up diluting one of the great underdog stories of all time,

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Speaker 3: and that is the story of the rise of Larry

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Speaker 3: Bird and rural Indiana in the nineteen seventies and this

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Speaker 3: enduring miracle of his nineteen seventy nine Indiana State team.

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Speaker 2: And so what I.

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Speaker 3: Wanted to do here is really just almost tilt the

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Speaker 3: camera in a different direction, you know, come at this

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Speaker 3: story from a different perspective, really focus on Indiana in

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Speaker 3: the nineteen seventies. And when you do that, you what

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Speaker 3: you really have is an entirely different story.

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Speaker 1: I think what I enjoyed more than anything were the

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Speaker 1: conversations you had with sports information directors and Larry's former

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Speaker 1: Indiana State teammates.

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Speaker 2: Who do who do enjoy? Who did you enjoy talking with? Most? Oh?

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Speaker 2: My god, I mean you know so many people.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you get it as a man who works

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Speaker 3: in broadcasts and the interviews people. I mean, you've interviewed

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Speaker 3: so many people you love them all. You know, there

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Speaker 3: are incredible characters around Larry in the nineteen seventies. Some

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Speaker 3: of these people shape him, create him. Others of them

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Speaker 3: frankly save him. You know, I do think the story

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Speaker 3: of his head coach in nineteen seventy nine is an

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Speaker 3: untold story, and he's an unsung hero. I know. Bill Hodges,

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Speaker 3: now in his eighties, still alive, you know, really saves

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Speaker 3: Larry Bird in nineteen seventy five, and a moment when

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Speaker 3: Larry is about to disappear forever where people have completely

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Speaker 3: forgotten about him, it is Bill Hodges, down on his luck,

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Speaker 3: assistant coach at Indiana State, on his third job in

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Speaker 3: three years, you know, goes down to in search of

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Speaker 3: Larry Bird.

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Speaker 2: And these, you know, two men are very similar.

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Speaker 3: You know. Bill Hodges is from rural Indiana. He's from

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Speaker 3: another small.

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Speaker 2: Town, Zionsville, Indiana.

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Speaker 3: He knows what it's like to be poor and overlooked,

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Speaker 3: just like Larry Bird.

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Speaker 2: They really do connect.

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Speaker 3: And it's Bill Hodges who coaxes Larry to come back

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Speaker 3: to college, pools them back from the brink. And I

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Speaker 3: do think mo in some alternative universe, you know, were

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Speaker 3: it not for Bill Hodges, we would never have known

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Speaker 3: Larry Bird's name.

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Speaker 1: How much of this story, the recruitment of Larry Bird,

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Speaker 1: his decision to originally attend Indiana, the story of those

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Speaker 1: Indiana State teams and how they were built, how close

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Speaker 1: they came to the NCAA tournament in the years prior

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Speaker 1: to nineteen seventy nine. How much of all of this

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Speaker 1: is completely unrecognizable compared to what we see when we

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Speaker 1: watch college basketball in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 3: I mean almost all of it. I mean, let's start

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Speaker 3: with the basics. You know, in twenty twenty six, can

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Speaker 3: a great talent like Larry Bird slip through the cracks

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Speaker 3: and end up at a smaller program. Yes, of course

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Speaker 3: that can still happen, But we're that to happen today.

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Speaker 3: You know, it would be everything would be different afterwards.

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Speaker 3: You know, Larry Bird gets the Indiana State and proves

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Speaker 3: right away that he.

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Speaker 2: Is a legitimate star.

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Speaker 3: You know, in that first season he plays there, he

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Speaker 3: averages thirty points a game. Well, I mean, in today's game,

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Speaker 3: Larry Bird's not sticking around at Indiana State anymore, because

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Speaker 3: you know, Indiana State today has an nil budget of

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Speaker 3: about three hundred thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: To put that in perspective for listeners. You know, Cooper.

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Speaker 3: Flag last year was reportedly paid roughly four point five

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Speaker 3: million dollars. So Bird in today's game, after one year

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Speaker 3: at Indiana State would have moved on to Indiana or

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Speaker 3: Ohio State or Notre Dame or Duke and gotten paid

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Speaker 3: three four million dollars a year. You know, that's just

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Speaker 3: the reality of the world we're living in. And of

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Speaker 3: course it was different back then, and I want to

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Speaker 3: be clear, like I believe personally that the system we

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Speaker 3: had before was wrong. You know at the NCAA and

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Speaker 3: major college programs profited for years, for decades off the

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Speaker 3: backs of amateur college athletes, you know, churning them up,

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Speaker 3: eating them up alive.

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Speaker 2: You know often you.

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Speaker 3: Know, many of these guys and women won't go.

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Speaker 2: On to professional careers.

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Speaker 3: But the system we have today is also flawed, and

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Speaker 3: you know we see it, you know when we turn

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Speaker 3: on the television.

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Speaker 2: Keith O'Brian is with us.

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Speaker 1: By the way, he will be at the Campbell County

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Speaker 1: Public Library, the Fort Thomas Branch on Friday at seven

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Speaker 1: o'clock and then at Joseph Beth right there in Hyde

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Speaker 1: Park five o'clock on Saturday. You can learn more at

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Speaker 1: keithob dot com. The name of the book is Heartland,

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Speaker 1: A Forgotten Place and Impossible Dream and the Miracle of

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Speaker 1: Larry Bird. Another few minutes with Keith O'Brien, What sort

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Speaker 1: of things about Larry specifically were you looking forward to

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Speaker 1: finding out when you dove into this project. You know,

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Speaker 1: I really wanted to delve into his early life, you know,

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Speaker 1: his life in French Lick, growing up there. You know,

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Speaker 1: French Lick is in Orange.

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Speaker 2: County, Indiana. In the nineteen.

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Speaker 3: Seventies, Orange County was the second poorest county in the

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Speaker 3: state in a state that was one of our poorest

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Speaker 3: in the country. So you know, he is facing adversity

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Speaker 3: after adversity there, and you know, because of those adversities.

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Speaker 3: You know, in those early years, Larry Bird, a young

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Speaker 3: Larry Bird, wasn't dreaming of playing college basketball, wasn't dreaming

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Speaker 3: of playing professional basketball. Those were impossible dreams. There was

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Speaker 3: no sense in having such dreams. His only dream in

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Speaker 3: the nineteen seventies is that maybe maybe he might be

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Speaker 3: as good as his older brother Mark, who you know,

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Speaker 3: at that time was considered the gust shooter in Orange County,

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Speaker 3: fifteen feet and in and was able to play on

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Speaker 3: the varsity basketball team at Springs Valley High School. And

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Speaker 3: that's really all that Larry Bird wanted.

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Speaker 2: And and you.

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Speaker 3: Know, it was a meager dream, but it was an

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Speaker 3: obtainable dream.

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Speaker 2: And I just found like that those.

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Speaker 3: Kind of things just so fascinating and enlightening about this

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Speaker 3: this character that we think we know, it's.

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Speaker 1: An American icon who is now more of a recluse,

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Speaker 1: Like you don't see you right about this toward the

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Speaker 1: end of the book. He doesn't make a ton of

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Speaker 1: public appearances. He's hard to get how, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: can you dive into sort of how onto his own

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Speaker 1: how reclusive Larry Bird is these days.

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Speaker 3: You know, A big part of my narrative in the

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventies is how much Larry Bird wanted to escape

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Speaker 3: the spotlight in seventy seven, seventy eight, seventy nine, when

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Speaker 3: the national media finally caught on to what was happening

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Speaker 3: in Tarahoade, Indiana. You know, Larry recoiled from that spot like,

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Speaker 3: you know, like a spider trying to find refuge in

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Speaker 3: the shadows, and as a result, you know, was really

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Speaker 3: at war with the national media, you know, in the

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Speaker 3: in the final years of his college career. In a

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Speaker 3: lot of ways, now in twenty twenty six, Larry has

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Speaker 3: finally done what he said he wanted to do fifty

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Speaker 3: years ago.

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Speaker 2: He has disappeared.

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Speaker 3: You know, Larry gave his last interview at the veiling

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Speaker 3: of the Larry Bird Museum in Terahoade, Indiana.

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Speaker 2: About two years ago.

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Speaker 3: And at that unveiling that day he said out loud,

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Speaker 3: I think this is going to be the last interview

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Speaker 3: I ever give. And you know, one thing I've learned

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Speaker 3: about Larry Bird in the reporting for this book is that,

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Speaker 3: you know, for better or for worse, Larry Bird.

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Speaker 2: Is a man of his word. If he says he's

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Speaker 2: going to do something, he does it.

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Speaker 3: If he says he's not going to do something, he

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Speaker 3: doesn't do it. And so I think Larry Bird is

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Speaker 3: simply living the life that he wants to live.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's more of those details in the book. Thick Enough,

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Speaker 1: Keith have a great stay in town this weekend. Fort

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Speaker 1: Thomas Branch of the Campbell County Public Library on Friday

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Speaker 1: at seven o'clock and then josepheth Booksellers on Saturday at five.

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Speaker 1: Get more information on those events and the book Keithob

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Speaker 1: dot com. Can you imagine a world where fifty million

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Speaker 1: people watch the NCAA Tournament title game? Indiana State and

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Speaker 1: Michigan State had that audience in nineteen seventy nine. Our

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Speaker 1: audience is going to hear Jeff Carr on red spring

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Speaker 1: training and Hunter Green and what the Reds are probably

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Speaker 1: going to have to do without him. Coming up next

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Speaker 1: on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station, Yeason