Speaker 1: Friday mornings here at Scott Sloan on seven hundred WLW,
Speaker 1: so this week and you're probably gonna spend a lot
Speaker 1: more time in front of devices than you do during
Speaker 1: the week right just because you're not working hopefully and
Speaker 1: you yourself. On average, you have around twenty one devices
Speaker 1: which are online in various places throughout the day, all
Speaker 1: of them using data pretty much all the time. And
Speaker 1: with the AI boom comes a need for more data centers.
Speaker 1: Thus the debate so here in the Tri State, the
Speaker 1: debate over regulations being fought tooth and nail. And if
Speaker 1: you don't think this affects you, it's probably coming to
Speaker 1: your area, no matter if you live in the city
Speaker 1: or in the outlining area especial rural areas Ohio. Right
Speaker 1: now we're fifth nationally for data center development. We want
Speaker 1: to be number one. The state. ESUS is an economic
Speaker 1: machine force to get us on the technology well at
Speaker 1: the top of the technology map. I guess City of
Speaker 1: Cincinnati's you may or may not know, it's getting very proactive.
Speaker 1: They just put a temporary moratorium on data centers in
Speaker 1: the city while they do a zoning study. Adams County
Speaker 1: last night there was another meeting over well, we really
Speaker 1: don't know. This is probably the most interesting battle over
Speaker 1: data centers is that adding the controversy over these plants
Speaker 1: comes a plan here in Adams County that's completely secret
Speaker 1: because Economic Development director signed a non disclosure agreement and
Speaker 1: nobody really knows what it's going to be, where it's
Speaker 1: going to go, and what it's going to do. Other
Speaker 1: than that, everything's great. Alex Shaffer's here. Alex is a
Speaker 1: resident and he's proactive in the process of finding out
Speaker 1: if this is right for his community, and he's out
Speaker 1: in Adams County and the Monroe Township and joins the
Speaker 1: show this morning. Alex, welcome, are you brother having Yeah,
Speaker 1: good to have you. So last night there was a
Speaker 1: meeting and I know basically the bottom line is you're
Speaker 1: not going to do a more toime like City Cincinnati has,
Speaker 1: but you're going to make sure there's some strict zoning
Speaker 1: regulations in place. So it's it's progressing, it's moving forward.
Speaker 2: It's progressing, it's moving forward. There's a lot of community
Speaker 2: input last night, and essentially the role of the trustees
Speaker 2: now within the township is they are going to work
Speaker 2: with outside legal counsel to put in the framework for zoning,
Speaker 2: you know within these industrial areas within the township, because
Speaker 2: everybody was on the same page where we have to
Speaker 2: get more information, we have to have more facts and
Speaker 2: more importantly, we have to know even who these people
Speaker 2: are that are wanting to come in and what they're
Speaker 2: wanting to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so what raised the red flags for you about
Speaker 1: these projects and what motive motivated you to get involved?
Speaker 2: You know, these sites at Stewart and Killing Station, Killing
Speaker 2: is in and Roe Township have been empty for roughly
Speaker 2: eight years since the power plant shut down, and a
Speaker 2: lot of that has to do with the site cleanup.
Speaker 2: And those were the economic drivers of our county. And
Speaker 2: Adams County is such a prideful, beautiful countryside, but those
Speaker 2: were the economic drivers that really our community was built around.
Speaker 2: So it is these are general generational issues that we
Speaker 2: have in our county and we want to make sure
Speaker 2: that we're doing the right things. So not only us,
Speaker 2: but our children and our grandchildren are proud to continue
Speaker 2: to live and remain in Oudams County.
Speaker 1: So this isn't completely going. Hey, we don't want a
Speaker 1: data center, we don't want any of this stuff stay
Speaker 1: the hell out of our town.
Speaker 2: No, I would say everyone is of the mindset where
Speaker 2: as I would akin these NDAs too that mister Worley
Speaker 2: signed is you're essentially agreen to get married before you've
Speaker 2: even seen who you're going on a date with. So
Speaker 2: you know, we need to have more facts and we
Speaker 2: need to know exactly who these companies are. Are they
Speaker 2: are they you know, companies based in the US, so
Speaker 2: are they foreign based companies? And you know what exactly
Speaker 2: the plans are because there's so many different variables that
Speaker 2: come into play.
Speaker 1: And I think that's a critical point because in this
Speaker 1: particular case, and we'll get into the NDA battle in
Speaker 1: just a second. And Paul Warley, I believe is the
Speaker 1: Economic Development director for Adams County, he signed it out
Speaker 1: with a company. But you guys have no idea on
Speaker 1: you know, the size and scope of the project, the
Speaker 1: exact location. I mean, you could kind of figure that
Speaker 1: out maybe with EPA records, but if you don't know
Speaker 1: the company, you don't know even if it's a data
Speaker 1: center or the type of services they offer before this
Speaker 1: thing goes in.
Speaker 2: So the projects that are being proposed in Spring Township
Speaker 2: are a little bit further along, specifically at Stewart Side,
Speaker 2: and there's also Buck Canyon site which is across the
Speaker 2: road too soon in Row is very much earlier on
Speaker 2: in the process, which is very fortunate. And so that's
Speaker 2: precisely it. You know, we we have to have more
Speaker 2: information on this because there I mean, it's just it's
Speaker 2: a black hole right now for the county.
Speaker 1: Okay. So the Economic Development Director signs this non disclosure
Speaker 1: agreement with a couple of companies and says, we've got
Speaker 1: to do this and they'll be transparency if the project
Speaker 1: gets to a point. So, you know, how do you
Speaker 1: respond to residents like yourself being asked to wait for
Speaker 1: details until the deals are newly finalized. What point is
Speaker 1: it too late for meaningful public input?
Speaker 2: I think that starts at the time that you actually
Speaker 2: signed the NDAs. You know, Paul Whorley executed two NDAs,
Speaker 2: one in January of twenty twenty four, the other one
Speaker 2: was in November of this year, and based on my
Speaker 2: tracing them, it's my opinion that they are linked to
Speaker 2: Amazon because the framework around the NDAs is the same
Speaker 2: as what's going on in Mount War right now in
Speaker 2: Brown County, And you know, to that point, and I
Speaker 2: had raised this issue in discussions with some of the
Speaker 2: commissioners on Monday. Is Paul Worley serves at the pleasure
Speaker 2: of the Board of Commissioners in Adams County. So how
Speaker 2: is the Board of Commissioners able to oversee Paul discharging
Speaker 2: his job duties for the board and thus in the
Speaker 2: best interest of the county if they cannot even monitor
Speaker 2: what he is working on. Who is who he is
Speaker 2: working with on these sites?
Speaker 1: Sure, but from the company standpoint at Amazon or whatever
Speaker 1: it might be, we don't know. At this point. He's
Speaker 1: kind of like the conduit. So in these deals, you
Speaker 1: get a guy like him, an economic development guy, signs
Speaker 1: a non disclosure agreement with whoever's building this thing, which
Speaker 1: is kind of standard practice because you know, they want
Speaker 1: to keep the secret for as long as poss from
Speaker 1: the competition because there's a lot of proprietary technical information
Speaker 1: involve But the people who don't sign it would be
Speaker 1: the the elected lawmakers, right that would be the county
Speaker 1: commissioners of Adams County. And so at some point there's
Speaker 1: going to have to be a you know, disclosure so
Speaker 1: that you can you can vote on this. So based
Speaker 1: on that is this anything? Is this? Is this different
Speaker 1: than how it's done elsewhere, Not that it makes it right,
Speaker 1: But you know what I'm saying is like, if this
Speaker 1: is standard practice, I get why Amazon or whoever is
Speaker 1: trying to protect their interest here because you know, you
Speaker 1: don't want all this information out there until you get
Speaker 1: a deal kind of put together.
Speaker 2: The debate on whether NDA is a standard practice or
Speaker 2: not really dependent on who you ask. I can tell
Speaker 2: you in certain areas and Columbus, which Columbus has over
Speaker 2: one hundred data centers right now, is not the most
Speaker 2: standard practice. And to your point about competition, that is
Speaker 2: actually what NDAs specifically inhibit. My degree is in economics
Speaker 2: from Ohio State University. And when you put an NDA
Speaker 2: in place, that prohibits you from even looking at other
Speaker 2: alternatives as to those sites and those developments, thus reducing competition.
Speaker 2: What happens when you reduce competition, you harm the consumer.
Speaker 2: Who's the consumer here, the residents of Adams County.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I get the argument, and you guys, you
Speaker 1: definitely should have a hand in the process here. We
Speaker 1: don't want government just going out and no, we know
Speaker 1: what's best and that's it. Doesn't work that way. County
Speaker 1: officials there will switch to the jobs saying, they said, well,
Speaker 1: seven hundred seven hundred jobs lost with the power plant
Speaker 1: closures there in Adams County. Another five and a half
Speaker 1: million from a school funding gets pulled out because as
Speaker 1: they said, look, I've going hey, listen, this is going
Speaker 1: to help support the tax space here. But as I
Speaker 1: understand it, data centers are obviously exempt from property taxes
Speaker 1: because it's commercial. What about the job creation?
Speaker 2: So job creation, the studies have shown that you have
Speaker 2: to have roughly twenty million dollars of capital input costs
Speaker 2: to create one full time job. So if you have
Speaker 2: a billion dollar data center development, you are only going
Speaker 2: to create roughly fifty jobs, Whereas if you look at
Speaker 2: other industrial usages for that site that actually provide you know,
Speaker 2: not only additional jobs and infrastructure and increase land value
Speaker 2: for the community. You are actually specifically targeting a broader workforce,
Speaker 2: the technical skill set of the workforce that we have
Speaker 2: in Adams County. And it's also then benefiting the community
Speaker 2: for people to work there and also the school districts
Speaker 2: in terms of the generation of those taxes from the payroll.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what about the element of what about then
Speaker 1: this is you know, the trial, love the trades, but
Speaker 1: there'll be like over a thousand, around one thousand construction
Speaker 1: jobs for up to five years, and some of those
Speaker 1: would have to be in place for maintenance because a
Speaker 1: minute you finished this huge project and to take you
Speaker 1: three years, you're going to start having to refit some
Speaker 1: areas that were done three years ago because it's technology
Speaker 1: to change as rapidly. So some of the estimates say,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe one hundred million plus in local wages,
Speaker 1: one thousand, two thousand workers. Eighty percent of those will
Speaker 1: be in radius of where you live. Those jobs are
Speaker 1: nothing to sum your nose ap.
Speaker 2: There are nothing good. Some of your knows that, But
Speaker 2: I think you have to look at the actual data
Speaker 2: in terms of the payroll. And I've talked about this
Speaker 2: with David Gifford, the county auditor, who's a good friend
Speaker 2: of mine. And you know, when people try and say
Speaker 2: these auxiliary jobs that are created in the permanency of them,
Speaker 2: the numbers simply do not support that in the payroll records,
Speaker 2: and the auditor has that. And I think you also overall,
Speaker 2: with these data centers and the job creation, you have
Speaker 2: to look at what's happening in the Greater Columbus area
Speaker 2: with Intel, where essentially Mike Dwine sold the farm to
Speaker 2: Intel and we had and the plants were supposed to
Speaker 2: open last year, and they were all these financial incentives
Speaker 2: and benchmarks that were supposed to be met by them.
Speaker 2: They have not might have the option to enforce those
Speaker 2: agreements last year, and he basically said, no, it's okay.
Speaker 2: You know, you can do whatever you want here in Ohio.
Speaker 2: So what would make the situation any different in Appalasha
Speaker 2: areas and all?
Speaker 1: Now? Yeah, But at the same time, you look at
Speaker 1: it and go, are there industries that are are knocking
Speaker 1: at the door and trying to get their way into
Speaker 1: Adams County right now? You know, you mentioned Columbus, Cincinnati,
Speaker 1: the big cities. A lot of companies want to do
Speaker 1: business in those areas. It makes a lot of sense
Speaker 1: for reasons we don't The obvious reasons would be infrastructures
Speaker 1: are ready in place. But you know, Adams County I
Speaker 1: lost jobs, power plants. Is it kind of like you're
Speaker 1: turning your nose up with a good thing or you're
Speaker 1: trying to basically avoid a slam dunk here. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think people see this and go, well, it's Adams County.
Speaker 1: It's not like and it's not being I'm not being derogatory.
Speaker 1: It's just like there are in companies that are looking
Speaker 1: to knock the door down to Adams County at this point.
Speaker 1: Are there.
Speaker 2: No, I would disagree with that. The sites have been
Speaker 2: looked at for a multiple for a multitude of different
Speaker 2: sectors over the years. And again, I think it's important
Speaker 2: for people to remember that once the power plants close,
Speaker 2: it's not like you can just open up, you know,
Speaker 2: a new enterprise there the next day. There's so much
Speaker 2: environmental cleanup the head to be done with King Fisher
Speaker 2: Partners to come in.
Speaker 1: It's a brownfield, yeah, exactly, precisely, yes, yeah, yeah, and
Speaker 1: but okay, so there's some infrastructure there, but people are you're, well, well,
Speaker 1: i'd rather build something, you know. At the same time,
Speaker 1: you know, these data centers take a lot of power,
Speaker 1: so you know, put two and two together, it's pretty
Speaker 1: obvious that you want to be near water, which you have,
Speaker 1: and you want to be near you know, megawats of electricity.
Speaker 2: They're easily accessible, correct, And we do have the power
Speaker 2: grid there in place. And you know, this is something
Speaker 2: that the Big Ramaswami has discussed about the strain on
Speaker 2: the power grid right now, and there's currently a House
Speaker 2: bill in place, House built six forty six sitting in
Speaker 2: the House Rules Committee in terms of actually setting a
Speaker 2: thirteen member commission to study these data centers because of
Speaker 2: the boom of them in Ohio, because of the strain
Speaker 2: on our electrical grid. So I I kind of akin
Speaker 2: it to people as this is, how are we going
Speaker 2: to continue as a society to supply the power and
Speaker 2: energy to these data centers because they are not they
Speaker 2: are they are an energy input. They are they are
Speaker 2: not an energy export if we do not have facilities
Speaker 2: in place to actually generate that power for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've talked about this a lot of my show
Speaker 1: Well in the Future. And you know, you're in the
Speaker 1: tech sector as well, So it's not like you know,
Speaker 1: your lutte, your scream at the old man, scream at
Speaker 1: the clouds and saying damn computers go away, right, I
Speaker 1: mean you lean. We all lean into it. We're all
Speaker 1: and it's it's such a paradox, right, Alex, because we're
Speaker 1: all guilty of this. We all have devices. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're talking, you know, digitally right now, I'm recording you digitally.
Speaker 1: It's going into a cloud. And so we're guilty of
Speaker 1: this ourselves right now. We have no choice but to
Speaker 1: figure out a way we can all live with us absolutely.
Speaker 2: And you know, my company uses you know, cloud servers,
Speaker 2: and you know, we have to have them as society,
Speaker 2: and we have to have them also in terms of
Speaker 2: national intelligence and also being independent from you know, foreign control.
Speaker 2: And I think we all saw what happened with COVID
Speaker 2: when manufacturing shut down and the rest of the world
Speaker 2: look that, you know, Oh my god, look how de
Speaker 2: pendent we are upon China. So you know, that is definitely,
Speaker 2: you know, a great point. And that's the thing I
Speaker 2: think everyone's standpoint is we are not saying no to
Speaker 2: data centers overall, but in terms of specifically the locations
Speaker 2: and the phases in which you possibly would put those
Speaker 2: in and where you would put those in at is
Speaker 2: what the biggest concern is with not having any information
Speaker 2: from these companies.
Speaker 1: The number one of the biggest outside of transparency the
Speaker 1: politics of it, which generally they tend to settle down
Speaker 1: at some point. What's the biggest concern for residents. Would
Speaker 1: you say, there Alex Schaeffer and Adam's count over this, I.
Speaker 2: Would say specifically where they're proposing it is, you know,
Speaker 2: the landscape in you know, the southern part of Adams County,
Speaker 2: the hills and the river and everything is what makes
Speaker 2: Adams County beautiful. And also, you know, you know, the
Speaker 2: side effects that you have from the data center's long
Speaker 2: term is something that again we don't know about. So
Speaker 2: if the state is at the process to where they're
Speaker 2: looking at creating a thirteen member committee to study those effects,
Speaker 2: then us as Adams County should sit here and look
Speaker 2: at it and say, Okay, if this is a broader
Speaker 2: issue at the state and obviously the national level, you know,
Speaker 2: we don't have the ability as a small community to
Speaker 2: fight this later on down the road. So we don't
Speaker 2: want to make the wrong decision now that we look
Speaker 2: back ten years and we're like, what did.
Speaker 1: We do right? It's hard because you know, you're at
Speaker 1: the tip of the spirit at this point. There are
Speaker 1: not many other piers you could look at that have
Speaker 1: been doing this for you twenty years and see what
Speaker 1: the long term effects are. You got to make a decision.
Speaker 1: It's going to impact the next.
Speaker 2: Hundred exactly, and you know that's that's honestly the problem
Speaker 2: in society with a lot of things, whether that's technology
Speaker 2: or medicine, and you know, we have to continue to
Speaker 2: evolve and adapt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are unforeseen consequences that no one can predict.
Speaker 1: And usually that's the case. We didn't we didn't think
Speaker 1: of that, or we didn't see that coming. Because while
Speaker 1: the world is always changing, for sure, so are the
Speaker 1: next steps here.
Speaker 2: So from area township right now they're in the process
Speaker 2: of obtaining outside legal councils start drafted in the framework
Speaker 2: for what they want to put in for zoning. Specifically
Speaker 2: their Sprig Sprig Township has a meeting I believe it
Speaker 2: is February twenty third, and there there is going to
Speaker 2: be some more information hopefully that'll come out about at
Speaker 2: that standpoint. And so overall for the county, the commissioners
Speaker 2: have promised to have more public input and a more
Speaker 2: dedicated special meeting to this. But again I think it's
Speaker 2: very important to point out, you know, in terms of
Speaker 2: these developments, the Board of Commissioners has the option and
Speaker 2: to direct mister Worley to recuse himself from these NDAs,
Speaker 2: and that prevents these companies moving forward with the speed
Speaker 2: that they would like and garner that public input and
Speaker 2: have these representatives come in and talk to the community,
Speaker 2: talk to us about what their plans are and how
Speaker 2: they want to integrate themselves into our county in a
Speaker 2: way that we're proud of, just like General Electric has
Speaker 2: done with their jet engine testing facility in.
Speaker 1: People makes sense, you think Cincinnata has it right putting
Speaker 1: the moratory minus.
Speaker 2: It did I do? And several other townships and Columbus
Speaker 2: have done that. Jerome Township, Washington Township, and the City
Speaker 2: of Dublin have done that. And they have data centers
Speaker 2: kind of around the perimeter of the City of Dublin.
Speaker 2: And because you know right now it's an arms race
Speaker 2: for data centers, it truly is, and that stems from,
Speaker 2: I believe, you know, a technological arms race with China.
Speaker 2: So again, in order for us to properly look at
Speaker 2: this for our future and look at the side effects
Speaker 2: of it, and look at where we want to see
Speaker 2: these things in the landscape of our communities, we have
Speaker 2: to put the pause button in place. Get more information,
Speaker 2: get more facts, and surely be able to make candidly
Speaker 2: a more educated and informed decision.
Speaker 1: Alex Schaeffer is a residence in Adams County, and it's
Speaker 1: certainly one of the more interesting cases because of NDAs
Speaker 1: and land and not knowing what really is going to
Speaker 1: go and who even owns the data center for that point.
Speaker 1: But it's a great example to look at for the
Speaker 1: rest of us because Alex, as a resident, is getting involved.
Speaker 1: He's being proactive in the process of finding out if
Speaker 1: it's right for his community and where he lives and breathes,
Speaker 1: heats and works. And that's a battle. You hearing this's
Speaker 1: going well, that's Adams County, but guess what it's happening
Speaker 1: in Cinci. It's going to happen in not only the city,
Speaker 1: but it's going to happen in maybe suburban areas, but
Speaker 1: particularly rural areas, Butler County, Mount Orb. The list goes
Speaker 1: on and on and on. So it's a battle we're
Speaker 1: all going to have to face, or an issue we're
Speaker 1: going to have to face, I guess and figure out
Speaker 1: how to to what the best practice is. It's not
Speaker 1: going away, We're going to have to put them somewhere.
Speaker 1: How do we coexist, I guess is a question. It's
Speaker 1: a great case, Alex. We'll talk again in the future,
Speaker 1: I'm sure. Man. Thanks for coming on in shedding some
Speaker 1: light on this issue.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And Scott, you know on behalf of the people
Speaker 2: of Adams County. Thank you for having me on to
Speaker 2: allow us to raise our voice on your platform into
Speaker 2: the greater Tri State area. We are truly and greatly
Speaker 2: appreciative of all.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you, brother, and again we'll talk soon. Thanks again,
Speaker 1: Thanks Scott. All right, there you go, Alex Schaeffer on
Speaker 1: the show. Yeah, you hear that, you go. It doesn't really,
Speaker 1: it doesn't concern it, does it concerned? We're the ones
Speaker 1: doing it right. We use all this stuff as far
Speaker 1: as information goes in data. We're using it right now,
Speaker 1: you're using it right now. We're all using it. We
Speaker 1: have no choice. This is it's what it is. It's
Speaker 1: the future too. So can we lean and make money
Speaker 1: and make Ohio a more vibrant and improve our economy
Speaker 1: because of Intel, because of AWS et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1: But we also have to live where these plans are too.
Speaker 1: So watching these guys, I think it's a great test
Speaker 1: case for all of us. If you will anyway, we'll
Speaker 1: continue to follow that. Scott's Loan Show continues seven hundred
Speaker 1: WLW