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Speaker 1: Hey, it's Neil Savedra. You're listening to KF I AM

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Speaker 1: six forty the four Report on demand on the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 1: Way Way, Way Way. We gotta do a joke, man,

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Speaker 1: I know I missed it last week, but we gotta

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Speaker 1: do it. Okay, Uh? Richie? Yes, what do you get

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Speaker 1: when you cross a pig with a centipede? I don't know, Neil,

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Speaker 1: what is it? Bacon and legs? Oh my god? What

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Speaker 1: don't curse? Let's start the show showing music. Now, you

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Speaker 1: can play the music.

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Speaker 2: Leave me tay km I am six forty Live everywhere

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Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 1: Happy Saturday to you, a lovely Saturday. It's freaking hot.

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Speaker 1: How that happened? I'm ready to go to the beach right.

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Speaker 1: Look at us working. I've been getting some my Mexican on.

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Speaker 1: Get a little bit of that action. Richie's in for

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Speaker 1: Kayla today, and we've got Oliver on the board. Oliver,

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Speaker 1: it is Saturday, January seventeenth. If you were across the pond,

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Speaker 1: as they say, I didn't make that up, by the way,

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Speaker 1: I've heard it before. What would the weather be like today? Cold,

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Speaker 1: miserable pretty much every day of the year. What part

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Speaker 1: of the UK are you from.

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Speaker 3: I'm from Buckingham Shires, that's near Oxford's kind of west

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Speaker 3: of London.

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Speaker 1: That's a nice little kind of country. I like it. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're happy to have you, my friend. Thanks for hanging

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Speaker 1: out today as you get to us in and enjoy

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Speaker 1: this craziness we call the Forkerport. What can't wait? Yes,

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Speaker 1: it'll be a good time had by all. So what

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Speaker 1: do we do every Saturday? Three hours kind of break

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Speaker 1: from the heavy news and just celebrate food. And today

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Speaker 1: is no different. We have a lot to get to today,

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Speaker 1: including we're going to get into some low stress cooking

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Speaker 1: techniques today. We're going to talk about wine. We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about oh these new corn chips on the market,

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Speaker 1: Winter recipes letter later on, all kinds of great stuff.

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Speaker 1: Right now, I want to start with some tech TikTok techniques.

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Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of this stuff I see

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Speaker 1: on TikTok is for clicks. It's not either manageable or

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Speaker 1: it's falsified with camera tricks or things like that. The

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Speaker 1: recipes are horrible, but every now and again you get

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Speaker 1: some real kind of you know, passed on from grandmother

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Speaker 1: to grandchild tips that are fantastic, and the one I

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Speaker 1: want to start with I think is just brilliant. I

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Speaker 1: have used it before. I know it works. Don't know

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Speaker 1: where it came from, don't know why I knew it,

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Speaker 1: didn't find out from TikTok, but it's one of those

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Speaker 1: TikTok trends that people are doing. So you go to

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Speaker 1: any grocery store, you go to Costco, you go to

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Speaker 1: Sam's Club, you go to any of these places. What

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Speaker 1: is one thing that they have that everybody refers to

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Speaker 1: as a lost leader that everybody loves food wise? That

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Speaker 1: is rotisserie chicken. It is the go to hail mary

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Speaker 1: of anybody with kids or having to make a meal

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Speaker 1: if you work, and it's always great. Now, is it

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Speaker 1: high in sodium? Yeah, they're high in sodium. But are

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Speaker 1: they delicious? Yeah? The good thing is that you can

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Speaker 1: break them down quite easily and use them for different things,

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Speaker 1: whether you do chicken enchiladas, or you want to make

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Speaker 1: tacos with the meat or sandwiches, or you want to

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Speaker 1: put it in a rice peelof whatever it is. It's

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Speaker 1: a pretty versatile and when you break it down and

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Speaker 1: get the meat from the bones. You actually have quite

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Speaker 1: a lot to deal with that you could put into

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Speaker 1: a salad whatever it is, and it freezes as well,

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Speaker 1: so it's a wonderful tool for every day cooking. When

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Speaker 1: you just can't, you know, throw a chicken on the

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Speaker 1: rotisserie in your own house, I will suggest you could

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Speaker 1: do the same by boiling a chicken. That's what my

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Speaker 1: mom did. I remember this on Sundays. She would boil

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Speaker 1: a chicken and just pull it apart. And it wasn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily for Sunday, but it would be used throughout the

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Speaker 1: week in different, you know, meals. So you can boil

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Speaker 1: a chicken and do this. You can also do this

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Speaker 1: with your own roasted chicken, or if you want a

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Speaker 1: grille it, or make a rotisserie on the grill if

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Speaker 1: you've got one. I've done chickens on my big Green

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Speaker 1: egg whole chickens and I love them. So Ultimately, what

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Speaker 1: it is is when you cook it like that, it

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Speaker 1: really wants to separate the bones on its own. And

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Speaker 1: when you start going in with a knife, which is

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Speaker 1: our traditional way to separate the meat from the bone

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Speaker 1: with a rotisserie chicken, that's great, but you're you're gonna

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Speaker 1: lose some of that great meat. So what you want

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Speaker 1: to do is you want to get a ziplock or

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Speaker 1: zip top freezer bag that will one that will fit

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Speaker 1: the entire chicken in there. You ziplock it, you let

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Speaker 1: that heat kind of work its magic a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and then, uh, now, with your bare hands on the

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Speaker 1: outside of that gallon bag, you just start to massage

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Speaker 1: it and with your thumbs push it away from the bones,

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Speaker 1: start flattening it out, pulling things apart. So now your

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Speaker 1: hands aren't in there, you don't have to wear gloves,

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Speaker 1: and it will start to separate naturally from the bones.

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Speaker 1: So once you start doing that and you feel like

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Speaker 1: the bones, you can push your fingers around the bones

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Speaker 1: and bring all that off. Then you can put it

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Speaker 1: into a you know, like a cake pan or something

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Speaker 1: that's gonna hold the juices and all of those things,

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Speaker 1: and start just pulling the bones out, checking to make

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Speaker 1: sure you don't leave any cartilage or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: Now it's all broken down, it's basically shredded itself. You've

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Speaker 1: got it off the legs, you've got it off the thighs,

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Speaker 1: you've got it off the breasts. Everything. You start pulling away.

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Speaker 1: And once you do that, now you have enough to

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Speaker 1: make a meal that night, but depending on the family size,

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Speaker 1: you might have leftovers, and the greatest thing to do

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Speaker 1: is to put it back into a ziplock style bag,

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Speaker 1: or if you have a food saver or vacuum savor,

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Speaker 1: those are great too, to get the air out of there.

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Speaker 1: I was just letting it cool down. Before you do that.

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Speaker 1: You don't want to take really hot things, or even

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Speaker 1: warm things and put them in your refrigerator or freezer,

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Speaker 1: especially in the freezer. It'll start to create condensation and moisture,

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Speaker 1: which is not your friend in the freezer, and it

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Speaker 1: will build up and you don't want that. But you

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Speaker 1: put it in the ziplock. You put that in, get

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Speaker 1: all the air out, or the most you can put

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Speaker 1: it in the freezer, and you're gonna be good to

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Speaker 1: go for a soup, for a salad, for a sandwich,

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to do with it. The key here

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Speaker 1: is making an easy method for breaking down the rotisserie chicken,

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Speaker 1: getting all those things off. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: if you pull off the skin and you want to

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Speaker 1: recrisp it in the oven, you can do that as well.

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Speaker 1: It just gives you the meat and it pulls from

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Speaker 1: the bone in a way that you Most people don't.

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Speaker 1: They end up cutting through it or putting gloves on

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Speaker 1: and pulling it apart that way. But in a bag,

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Speaker 1: don't need the gloves. It's all stays in the bag,

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Speaker 1: makes much less of a mess, and you could literally

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Speaker 1: just pull out the bones from there if you wish,

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Speaker 1: and you don't. It never has to leave the bag.

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Speaker 1: So a golden tip. I've got another one for you

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Speaker 1: when we come back, So go know where Technique of

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Speaker 1: the week, simple TikTok hacks that are actually good.

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Speaker 4: You're listening to the Fork Report with Neildra on demand

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Speaker 4: from KFI Am six forty.

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Speaker 1: Happy Saturday to you, gorgeous Saturday Today. On the seventeenth

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Speaker 1: of January twenty twenty six. My buddy Tony Sorrentino, you've

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Speaker 1: heard his name thrown around here, does a lot of

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Speaker 1: technical stuff and engineering and things like that. Great guy.

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Speaker 1: It's his birthday today. Hit him up earlier to wish

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Speaker 1: him a happy birthday and he's enjoying himself. He has

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Speaker 1: a full working arcade in his home. It's it's absolutely insane,

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Speaker 1: absolutely insane. He showed it to my son and he's

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Speaker 1: just like, I want to move there. So happy birthday, Tony.

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Speaker 1: He has been with KFI for a bazillion years and

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Speaker 1: a great guy. Also, want to remind you line up

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Speaker 1: change if you didn't hear last week. Actually last week

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Speaker 1: was a little different. But you've got Saturdays with Tiffany

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Speaker 1: tonight from six to eight pm, and then after that

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Speaker 1: you got Michael Monks. But now of following us in

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Speaker 1: the Fork Report is a new report show called The

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Speaker 1: Crust Report, and it's about you know, gold and silver

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Speaker 1: and you know that's the top of mind for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people. And Conway hosts it. So you get

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Speaker 1: Conway on a Saturday Live and this is not something

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Speaker 1: he's voice tracking or do any of that garbage. He'll

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Speaker 1: be in here, so we'll talk to him before he

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Speaker 1: comes on a little bit later, but stick around for that.

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Speaker 1: Interesting shows. Listening to it last week, but it's always

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Speaker 1: nice to hear Conway on the weekends. You know what,

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Speaker 1: when I bought gold, it was six hundred dollars a

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Speaker 1: Troy outs. Isn't it like forty six hundred right now?

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Speaker 1: So ask me, ask me if I think that it's

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Speaker 1: a good investment. Is it a good investment? Ritchie, I

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Speaker 1: can't believe you asked me out of the blue. I'd say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you do the math, handsome figure that out. So you've

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Speaker 1: got a great line up throughout the night. So what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying is, go no where all right. Back to

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Speaker 1: these TikTok tips, the food tips. A lot of them

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Speaker 1: are garbage. But when I see good ones that I've

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Speaker 1: tried or I think are tried and true, I want

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Speaker 1: to bring them to you. So for technique of the Week,

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Speaker 1: we just talked about the de boning a rotisserie chicken

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Speaker 1: in the easiest way possible. You can go back and

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Speaker 1: listen to that on the podcast later on tonight if

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Speaker 1: you didn't hear it. And now I want to tell

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Speaker 1: you something else that I'm a big fan of. If

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Speaker 1: you're like us, we have limited real estate in our kitchen.

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Speaker 1: We all do. Counterwise, our home is an old home.

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Speaker 1: I've said this many times, and although it was modified

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Speaker 1: before we moved in for a larger kitchen, it is

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Speaker 1: not a huge kitchen by any stretch of the imagination,

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Speaker 1: and counter space is at a premium. So although I

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Speaker 1: love gadgets, Big rich on tech fan love me gadgets,

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean all of them are worthy of your

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Speaker 1: counter space. However, if you burn rice like the rest

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Speaker 1: of us, no matter what you do, and doing all

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Speaker 1: the different techniques, you end up getting that lower level

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Speaker 1: of that crusty rice. Then get a rice cooker. Rice

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Speaker 1: cookers are great, and they cook rice perfectly. That is

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Speaker 1: their job. The problem comes in when you think that

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Speaker 1: that is their only job because rice cookers can be

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Speaker 1: used for everything, for other things, which makes them, you know,

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Speaker 1: usable across the board. It doesn't mean that they're or

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Speaker 1: what our friend Alton Brown calls them a uni tasker,

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Speaker 1: that thing. He doesn't like uni taskers, and although I

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Speaker 1: like him in theory, in practice their opain. You want

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Speaker 1: things on your countertop that can do more than one thing.

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Speaker 1: So what can you cook in a rice cooker other

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Speaker 1: than just plain rice. Well, you can do flavored rice,

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Speaker 1: and you can put veggies in there with it. You

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Speaker 1: can do all those things, of course, but you can

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Speaker 1: also do porridges, you know, oat meal, that type of thing.

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Speaker 1: You can do grains like quinoa, barley, dull You can

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Speaker 1: do one pot meals, curries, stews, risotto, even chili you

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Speaker 1: can do in a rice cooker. I've seen people do forritatas,

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Speaker 1: I've seen omelets, I've seen pancakes done in there. You

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Speaker 1: can do desserts, things like rice pudding. You can even

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Speaker 1: do cakes in there. You can steam vegetables, you can

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Speaker 1: cook pasta. There are recipes galore on the interwebs. You

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Speaker 1: just go on. You look on there and you can

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Speaker 1: find all kinds of things that you can cook in

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Speaker 1: your rice cooker. So now rather than it being just

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Speaker 1: I mean the premiere product for cooking rice, don't have

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Speaker 1: it burnt on the bottom and that smell that permeates

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Speaker 1: the remainder of the rice. That they are great, but

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Speaker 1: use them for that oatmeal, use them for that chili,

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Speaker 1: for breakfast, omelets, whatever it is. They are way more

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Speaker 1: versatile than people think they are. All right, stick around.

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Speaker 1: We got much more to come on The Fork Report today,

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Speaker 1: in including talking about low stress cooking. When we return

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Speaker 1: Techniques for twenty twenty six, Deborah Borden will be my guest.

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Speaker 1: So go know where.

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Speaker 4: You're listening to The Fork Report with Nil Sevedra on

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Speaker 4: demand from KFI AM six forty.

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Speaker 1: If you're not familiar with the show. Every Saturday, we

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Speaker 1: kind of just get away from the heaviness of the

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Speaker 1: news and celebrate food, the people that make it, the

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Speaker 1: culture behind it, cooking at home, going out to eat. Gosh,

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Speaker 1: how it ties into the local economy. Anything and everything

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Speaker 1: dealing with food is what we look at on a Saturday.

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Speaker 1: And today, you know, it being the new year and all.

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Speaker 1: Do you know that we're all looking for ways to

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Speaker 1: one have more good food that is good for us

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Speaker 1: or more healthful as the case may be. And also,

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Speaker 1: you know, grab hold of anxiety or things like that,

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Speaker 1: because nobody wants to be stressed. Not to mention, it's

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Speaker 1: garbage on your body. So we have an author and

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Speaker 1: a cook in her own right, the sooth Therapists they

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Speaker 1: call her, and she's a pioneer of culinary therapy and

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Speaker 1: psycho therapy. She or therapy and she's a psychotherapist. She's

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Speaker 1: an author and one of the leading experts in the

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Speaker 1: nation on culinary therapy, which I'm going to ask her

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Speaker 1: what the hell that is right now. Deborah Borden, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Fork Report.

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Speaker 3: Hey Neil, thank you so much for having me and

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Speaker 3: giving me the chance to act explain what.

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Speaker 1: Culinary Yeah, first of all, you're you're on the East Coast.

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Speaker 1: There is another famous East Coast Borden. Any relation to Lizzy.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's very funny. But when I had my daughter,

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Speaker 3: I really loved the name Leasal from the Sound of Music.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, that was out as was Jordan for

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Speaker 3: my son because that wouldn't have worked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I guess we all get limitations in life.

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Speaker 1: So you are at LCSW. My wife is also an LCSW,

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Speaker 1: a licensed clinical social worker. And you had gravitated towards

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Speaker 1: food like a lot of us throughout the you know,

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Speaker 1: Food Network and all these great food shows, and you've

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Speaker 1: combined your passion of writing, cooking, and therapy together. So

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Speaker 1: what is culinary therapy?

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Speaker 3: So it's funny that you say that. I always joke

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Speaker 3: I call like cooking therapy, but as it gets buzz

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Speaker 3: and it's starting to be included in treatment programs and

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Speaker 3: mental health settings, it's called culinary therapy. And I just

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Speaker 3: say if I call it that, I have to charge

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Speaker 3: you more. It just sounds that, but it's really the

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Speaker 3: same thing, and it's an experiential therapy like art therapy

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Speaker 3: or music. By the way, I've done them all and

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Speaker 3: everyone always says, well, which one do you like best.

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Speaker 3: I've done ek wine stand play therapy. I've even done

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Speaker 3: surf therapy. Well full disclosure, I watched surf therapy. I

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Speaker 3: didn't actually, But the best thing about cooking therapy is

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Speaker 3: it's available. Once you know how to do it, you

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Speaker 3: could do it all day long if you so desire.

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Speaker 3: It's right there. You can do it in your own kitchen.

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Speaker 3: The book that just came out, Cooking a Therapy, is

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Speaker 3: kind of like a guide and a sherpa for doing it.

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Speaker 3: And basically, well, I should tell you how it began

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Speaker 3: because it wasn't that I was brilliant or a genius.

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Speaker 3: I was working as an in home therapist and the

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Speaker 3: state of New Jersey at the time had this great

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Speaker 3: program bringing therapy to people who could only access it

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Speaker 3: if it came to them. But that meant sometimes I

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Speaker 3: was working with like sixteen year old boys for two

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Speaker 3: hours in the afternoon after they'd been in school all day.

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Speaker 3: And these were kids that, you know, we're not doing

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Speaker 3: so well, which is why therapy it was brought in.

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Speaker 3: They were not. I wouldn't work with an insightful adult

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Speaker 3: for two hours to tell you the truth.

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Speaker 1: Sure, that's a lot, especially after.

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Speaker 3: School, and they're hungry and they want to play video

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Speaker 3: games and they want to do their homework. But not

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Speaker 3: really because that was part of the problem. But so

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Speaker 3: I got very creative with them, played a lot of

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Speaker 3: games in one day. Occur to me, I love to cook,

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Speaker 3: you know, maybe it could be an activity. And the

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Speaker 3: minute we started doing it, first of all, we were

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Speaker 3: working side by side. So you just take away that

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Speaker 3: kind of what I call, you know, stalach seventeen eyes

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Speaker 3: in your you know, traditional dieth nice, tell me how

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Speaker 3: you feel. Right, Well, that's how it feels to them.

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Speaker 3: And I hate the word. People will say, Oh they

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Speaker 3: were resistant. I hate that word. They just were not

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Speaker 3: used to sharing their feelings or even thinking about how

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Speaker 3: they felt. And then we started cooking side by side.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, I don't know if you know this,

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Speaker 3: but some of the great leaders in our country believe

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Speaker 3: in walking meetings and not being in that diad because

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Speaker 3: they feel even colleagues and employees are more solution focused

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Speaker 3: and creative.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that, but I love that. I think

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Speaker 1: that's brilliant.

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Speaker 3: Isn't that cool? Yeah, Steve Jobs would walk whenever they

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Speaker 3: had a problem. He'd take them all and they'd walk

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Speaker 3: and talk, and Harry Truman as well. But anyway, so

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Speaker 3: we're working together, and first of all, the metaphors just

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Speaker 3: started coming out, you know, I'd say, well, okay, we

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Speaker 3: have to stir this till it thickens. And they would

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Speaker 3: not have patients, so it would give me the opportunity

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Speaker 3: to talk about what happens if you rush it and

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Speaker 3: you don't wait, or if you know things like bring

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Speaker 3: to a simmer, not a boil, because that you're right,

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Speaker 3: and with these kids very reactive, so let it chill,

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Speaker 3: let it rest, they just started.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's sort of like it grabbed me and I realized

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Speaker 3: that there really was a modality here. And I always

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Speaker 3: talk about my first success with a young lady who

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Speaker 3: was fourteen and everybody had brought me in the school,

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Speaker 3: the guidance concert, some trouble with the police, the parents,

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Speaker 3: and she so didn't want to be in her own

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Speaker 3: life that she wouldn't even answer to her name. I

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Speaker 3: had to call her the name of one of the

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Speaker 3: heroines in a trilogy that was popular, and everything was fine.

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Speaker 3: She wouldn't admit to anything wrong until one day we

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Speaker 3: decided to make meat balls, and I had her shaping

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Speaker 3: these balls, and we started talking about, you know, can

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Speaker 3: you shape something larger should you start with something small?

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Speaker 3: And then her dad had left the mom and had

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Speaker 3: a new wife and new baby, and she looks up

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Speaker 3: at me with her hands. Oh, and mom was very

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Speaker 3: bitter and you know, not being like what we'd like

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Speaker 3: textbook mom to be with her emotions. And so this

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Speaker 3: young lady looked up at me with her hands full

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Speaker 3: of ground turkey squeezing it and said, this is what

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Speaker 3: I'd like to do to my baby's sister.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: I know it was disturbing, right, but no powerful.

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Speaker 1: Cortal Yeah, you know, rather do it with a meatball

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Speaker 1: than her baby sister. So yeah, that that is uh

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Speaker 1: a powerful breakthrough, I guess is the term that you'd

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Speaker 1: use in a moment like that for someone to be

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Speaker 1: to have something tactile and expressive right there in a moment,

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Speaker 1: you know, is very powerful.

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Speaker 3: I'm so glad you used the word tactile, because very

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Speaker 3: often I get two comments. The first comment I get

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Speaker 3: is this would not be for me. I don't like

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Speaker 3: to cook the wrapping still on my oven.

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Speaker 1: Debora, hold that thought. I say that thought because we're

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Speaker 1: going to get some news, but I want to hear

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Speaker 1: that second point to this. Deborah Borden is our guest

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Speaker 1: right now. Culinary therapy is what we're talking about, cooking

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Speaker 1: to learn and understand and to get nutrition in your

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Speaker 1: body as well. So go nowhere, we'll talk more when

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Speaker 1: we return.

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Speaker 4: You're listening to The Fork Report with Nil Savedra on

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Speaker 4: demand from KFI AM six forty.

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Speaker 1: Hey everybody, happy afternoon to you. It's a gorgeous Southern

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Speaker 1: California day. It's summer like. Man, it just is ridiculous

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Speaker 1: out there. It's going to be a pool day tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: is what I'm feeling. My guest right now is Deborah Borden.

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Speaker 1: She's an author, she is a licensed social worker and

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Speaker 1: clinical social worker. She is thoughtful most definitely, and she's

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Speaker 1: a cook and she ties these things together all over

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Speaker 1: love for writing and cooking and therapy. You can find

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Speaker 1: out more about her at Deborah bordenauthor dot com, Deborah

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Speaker 1: bordenauthor dot com and of course on Instagram which I

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Speaker 1: just followed Deborah Borden spelled d E b r A

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Speaker 1: and then Borden there and you can find out what

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Speaker 1: she's all about and find out more about her books

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Speaker 1: and how they can help you and help connect with you. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so we are talking about two things that you hear.

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Speaker 1: The first one when you talk about therapy through food.

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Speaker 1: The first one is, well, I don't like to cook.

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Speaker 1: I think the statement was I haven't even taken the

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Speaker 1: wrapper off my oven, which is, yeah, that's a little weird.

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Speaker 1: But and the second one was what.

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Speaker 3: Well, the second one I want to just say about

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Speaker 3: those who don't like to cook, The truth is it's

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Speaker 3: less about loving that you want to make. The cover

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Speaker 3: recipe of bonat PTIs then you're in the kitchen and

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Speaker 3: peeling back a yogurt or making a baked potato or

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Speaker 3: a bowl of cereal. And when you learn how to

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Speaker 3: do it, you can do it with that. And I

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Speaker 3: always say I can't draw to save my life, but

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Speaker 3: I can draw for art therapy because I can draw

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Speaker 3: pain or joy or frustration or grief, and it's the

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Speaker 3: same kind of thing. It's experiential, it's tacticle, and it's creative.

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Speaker 3: So that's the first thing. But the second thing is

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Speaker 3: to flip. Most people that love this say, oh, I

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Speaker 3: love to cook already, this is genius. I'm then I'm nurturing.

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Speaker 3: I love it. Here's the thing. Making Grandma's banana bread

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Speaker 3: and it smells great and you have great memories is therapeutic,

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Speaker 3: but it's not cooking therapy. So when you dive into it,

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Speaker 3: you can learn. There's a full curriculum. It's mindfulness, metaphors,

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Speaker 3: and mastery. It's formalized for this clinical modality, and it's

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Speaker 3: actually quite impactful that way.

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Speaker 1: You know. I've always thought that metaphors are like metaphors

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Speaker 1: are like I don't have anything to metaphors are like

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Speaker 1: I don't have a metaphor for metaphors. I'm sorry. Uh,

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Speaker 1: go it's a cheap joke. Sorry about that.

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Speaker 3: No, No, like a go ahead, a guy, I want

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Speaker 3: to help you.

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Speaker 1: I'm teasy. IVE always loved going metaphors. Anyways, I find

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Speaker 1: I find you. I'm going to keep saying until everyone

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Speaker 1: in the other room gets it. So one thing I've noticed,

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Speaker 1: I've done this program for over a decade and I

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Speaker 1: speak to a lot of you know, owners of restaurants

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Speaker 1: and a lot of chefs, is that, uh And I'll

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Speaker 1: do this sometimes when I meet chefs and uh at

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Speaker 1: at restaurants and so on, is breaking them down because

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Speaker 1: there's similar types that like to get into certain things,

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Speaker 1: whether it's law enforcement, whether it's chefing, or any of

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Speaker 1: these things. But I found a pattern that a lot

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Speaker 1: of chefs have a rebellious nature. They have a hard

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Speaker 1: time working for other people. They may have not gone

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00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 1: through a true culinary path. A lot of them just

430
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: have found a job in washing dishes and then kind

431
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 1: of fell in love with certain patterns and stuff. And

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00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that I'm a big you know,

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00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: I'm a maker, a creator, an artist, and all these

434
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: things in my own background, and I love that they

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00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: find their creativity through cooking. And I think a lot

436
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: of it has to do with the very art that

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00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,920
Speaker 1: you've pioneered, and that is this culinary or cooking therapy,

438
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: because there's something about it that kind of makes you

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00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: a master of your own art and creation. But you

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00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: get to watch, at least from a distance, people experiencing

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00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: it and enjoying it. And there's something about that I

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00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: think that's different than sand therapy or even art therapy,

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00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: which people enjoy, but there's something there's that third thing

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00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: that not only are they enjoying it, but they're being

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00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: literally fed and being given nutrition.

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00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,199
Speaker 3: I love that. I love that. Sometimes I end my

447
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 3: sessions by saying, you know, this is the one time

448
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 3: you're allowed to eat your feelings. But I know what

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00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 3: they get out of it. And I learned this when

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00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 3: I was researching the book The Creativity in Cooking releases

451
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 3: all the feel good chemicals, so serotonin, dopamine, oxytocin, and endorphins.

452
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, I was late to learn that,

453
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 3: but it's very particular. And not to get too scientific,

454
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 3: but the amygdala in your brain or all your emotions

455
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 3: are stored. It's in both sides of the brain, which

456
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 3: is very unusual. And when you do talk therapy, it

457
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 3: hits the left side of the brain that's very semantic.

458
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 3: And when you do a creative activity or attack ticle activity,

459
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 3: it hits the right side of the brain. So the

460
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 3: combination is powerful. And you know, I'm just I could

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00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 3: probably talk for another you know four of your shows.

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00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: I love it, well, definitely behind it. Have you back.

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00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: I am my listeners will tell you, as a logician

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00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: and an a rationalist that there's been more than one

465
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: time on this program where I've audibly rolled my eyes

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00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: and called people out on their science. And or you know,

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00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: it's more that more. I'm a very good sound reasoning

468
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: over reasons that sound good type guy. So I really

469
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: and I didn't know which way we're gonna go. I'm

470
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,239
Speaker 1: familiar with some of your stuff, not all of it,

471
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,959
Speaker 1: but I thought this could go either way. But I really,

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00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: I really enjoy and believe that the process you're talking

473
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: about is not just you know, therapeutic mumbo jumbo, but

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00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: it sounds like it's wrapped in really good connective science.

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00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: So I appreciate you taking the time to come on

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00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: today again. Deborah bordenauthor dot com at Deborah Borden. And

477
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: of course you can go on Amazon or go even

478
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: better to a local book dealer that you can open

479
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: a door and say hello to somebody and buy her books,

480
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: look at her books, and we'll have you back on.

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00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 3: I would love that.

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00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Deborah for taking the time again, Deborah Borden.

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00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: She's kind of a kung Fu master there with the

484
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: culinary arts and therapy. I love it. We'll talk again.

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00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: You've been listening to the Fork Report. You can always

486
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: hear us live on KFI AM six forty two to

487
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: five pm on Saturday and anytime on demand on the

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00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app,