Speaker 1: And how are you. I am doing well, sir, How
Speaker 1: are you?
Speaker 2: I'm doing great now. It sounds like you've had nine
Speaker 2: cups of coffee and I like it.
Speaker 1: You're a little low, but I appreciate the compliment. I think. Anyway,
Speaker 1: how are you doing, dude?
Speaker 3: Where do you?
Speaker 2: Little?
Speaker 3: Life is great? Man?
Speaker 2: Seriously, I caught a lick with the James gunn peacemaker
Speaker 2: placement in that HBO show with John Cena with Nelson.
Speaker 3: That was great. That happened a couple months ago.
Speaker 2: And now we just woke up to a best selling
Speaker 2: book on Amazon, so it feels pretty good.
Speaker 4: Hey, So okay, so obviously we'll get into the book.
Speaker 4: What happened to your hair is the name of the book.
Speaker 1: Why? Well, let's let's back up to the beginning. Why why? Why? Now? Why? Now?
Speaker 2: You know, honestly, it just kind of was one of
Speaker 2: those things where over the years we had so many
Speaker 2: people coming up with really important questions to us as
Speaker 2: our father's son.
Speaker 3: That's that was really the impetus.
Speaker 2: It started out wanting to set the record straight with
Speaker 2: what happened with our father's plane crash back in the
Speaker 2: day that we weren't allowed to talk about back in
Speaker 2: the day, and we just kind of hoped that time
Speaker 2: was going to address that, and it.
Speaker 1: Just seemed to not so.
Speaker 2: After one too many people came up in an autograph
Speaker 2: line and said, hey, you know, we heard all these
Speaker 2: rumors about your dad's a plane crash.
Speaker 3: What was the real deal?
Speaker 2: We just decided to start writing the book just based
Speaker 2: on that, and it turned into something much greater than that.
Speaker 3: It was our opportunity in our own words.
Speaker 2: There are no ghostwriters or anything like that, right, Matthew
Speaker 2: and I got to tell our stories the first time
Speaker 2: that we're telling our story rather than other people trying
Speaker 2: to tell it for us.
Speaker 4: You know what, you know what I don't understand though,
Speaker 4: is like Ricky Nelson was very very famous, your dad
Speaker 4: was a very very very famous person. And the plane
Speaker 4: crash happens, and as it turns out, like we're.
Speaker 1: Saying what it is, right, it's in the book, Like
Speaker 1: I'm not hiding anything.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, what we're saying what it is.
Speaker 2: It turned out to be a leaking fuel line that
Speaker 2: fed the heater in the back of the plane, that
Speaker 2: filled the belly of the plane up with aviation fuel.
Speaker 1: Right, and that faithful New Year's Eve.
Speaker 2: It was coming in for a landing in decalb, Texas,
Speaker 2: and the fuel sloshed forward and a spark in the
Speaker 2: cockpit wiring actually set it on fire.
Speaker 3: They actually landed the plane by the way.
Speaker 2: They were able to land the plane, but the smoke
Speaker 2: had taken everybody by the time that they were able
Speaker 2: to see the pilot's escape through the escape patch in
Speaker 2: the front, and they were the only two that survived.
Speaker 2: They were really, really injured. But it was one of
Speaker 2: those things where it was bad enough that we had
Speaker 2: to deal with that. Our dad was our best friend.
Speaker 2: Matt and I were just eighteen. We were all living
Speaker 2: together and hanging out, and Matthew and I were actually
Speaker 2: supposed to be on that plane.
Speaker 4: Our father crazy is that? And your dad was like,
Speaker 4: I got a bad something's not right here.
Speaker 1: Just meet me there.
Speaker 2: Well, look, as a dad myself, it's kind of one
Speaker 2: of those things. All these years, I've wondered why it was.
Speaker 2: But Matthew, Okay, first off, it was going into New
Speaker 2: Year's Eve. It was the first semester after all of
Speaker 2: our friends from high school had gone away to college
Speaker 2: and they had come back and we were all going
Speaker 2: to have New Year's Eve parties together and stuff. But
Speaker 2: our dad was doing a New Year's Eve concert in Dallas,
Speaker 2: and our plan was since we'd never flown on this
Speaker 2: legendary plane. It was bought by I bought from Jerry
Speaker 2: Lee Lewis. It was a World War Two era DC
Speaker 2: three big plane that we were going to fly on
Speaker 2: the plane with our father from his gig before New
Speaker 2: Year's Eve in Alabama. We're going to fly with the
Speaker 2: band and our dad to that New Year's Eve show
Speaker 2: on the plane for the first time and catch New
Speaker 2: Year's together, catch a show, And that was the whole
Speaker 2: point of it. And for some reason our dad called
Speaker 2: us the night before we were supposed to split. Matt
Speaker 2: and I had our bags packed ready to go to
Speaker 2: the airport and fly down there commercially. The next morning
Speaker 2: he called out of the blue, and he was uncharacteristically
Speaker 2: stern about it. He said, look, boys, just been thinking
Speaker 2: about this. Love to spend New Year's with you, but
Speaker 2: if we're going to do it, you gotta fly commercial
Speaker 2: Dallas and meet me there. And you know, we were
Speaker 2: kind of crabby about the whole thing, saying, you know,
Speaker 2: the whole point was to fly on the plane and
Speaker 2: he said, you know, look, I've made up my mind.
Speaker 3: This is not a negotiation. It's not going to happen.
Speaker 2: So we said, okay, well, we'll just wait here, hang
Speaker 2: out with our friends for New Year's we'll see you
Speaker 2: when you get back. And of course he never did right.
Speaker 2: And then the press handled that so horribly. They started
Speaker 2: this weird rumor about drug abuse on the plane having
Speaker 2: any thing to do with it, and it was a whirlwind.
Speaker 3: It was in the press cycle and so on top
Speaker 3: of losing our dad.
Speaker 2: As kids just eighteen, we had to navigate a really
Speaker 2: toxic and violent press about how they were trashing our
Speaker 2: dad's reputation.
Speaker 3: But Matt and I at the time couldn't talk about it.
Speaker 2: Because the deal was made that if the families of
Speaker 2: the band that went down with the plane as well
Speaker 2: were to get subsities, get paid, and be able to
Speaker 2: pay for their kids, we weren't allowed to talk about it.
Speaker 2: We had to wait until the NTSP report came out
Speaker 2: a year later, which it did. Of course, it exonerated
Speaker 2: our father. However, the damage had already been done. So
Speaker 2: I still get people coming up at autograph lines like
Speaker 2: I said, and asking and this book really does address
Speaker 2: all of it.
Speaker 4: But the part that I still don't get, and maybe
Speaker 4: I'm just dumb, but the part that I don't get
Speaker 4: is isn't it a big enough story? I feel horrible
Speaker 4: saying this talk about your dad, but isn't it a
Speaker 4: big enough story that Ricky Nelson and his band died
Speaker 4: in a plane crash on New y Year's Eve? That
Speaker 4: whether you don't have to go the extra step to
Speaker 4: try to create like this false narrative about drug abuse.
Speaker 4: How about just the fact that this guy who's his
Speaker 4: parents are famous, he's got two young kids, he's got
Speaker 4: a band there with families everybody.
Speaker 1: Isn't that enough?
Speaker 2: Well, sometimes we suck, Elliott, Like I said, you know, I,
Speaker 2: you know, It's just kind of one of those things.
Speaker 3: Man, It's just you would think.
Speaker 2: But apparently there was a reporter from the Washington Post
Speaker 2: walking around the wreckage afterwards and just launching questions, random
Speaker 2: questions to the NTSB investigator who was there, and just
Speaker 2: based on he said, oh, are you going to check
Speaker 2: for drug abuse on the plane? And the investigator said, well,
Speaker 2: we check for everything. Just on that, this guy decides
Speaker 2: to write this totally fabricated story, which unfortunately caught wind
Speaker 2: on the wire and spread everywhere.
Speaker 3: But it was total bs.
Speaker 2: The whole thing was right, and you know, I guess
Speaker 2: that reporter just kind of wanted to be at the
Speaker 2: forefront of all that. It's you know, it was tragic
Speaker 2: and stuff, but it's really important to note. Look, honestly,
Speaker 2: we lose a lot of us going to and from gigs.
Speaker 2: I always say, just Matthew and I've been doing this
Speaker 2: for forty years now, and they don't really pay us
Speaker 2: for the shows.
Speaker 1: They pay us for the travel, right, that's what we
Speaker 1: get paid for.
Speaker 2: And it's scary, you know sometimes in Matthew and I've
Speaker 2: had a lot of close calls that are also in
Speaker 2: the book as well. But it's just kind of that
Speaker 2: part of the lifestyle where you have to get you
Speaker 2: got to bring the rock to the people, and you
Speaker 2: got to get there somehow. And this was just kind
Speaker 2: of one of those times when a series of events
Speaker 2: had to conspire absolutely perfectly in order for that particular
Speaker 2: disaster to have happened. You take one of those events
Speaker 2: out and it wouldn't have happened quite that way. And
Speaker 2: so when that happens, you just kind of got to go. Well,
Speaker 2: maybe maybe God just wanted them home. Maybe it was
Speaker 2: just his time. Because coincidences are one thing, but so
Speaker 2: many coincidences lining up is really hard to kind of
Speaker 2: look around.
Speaker 4: Hey, So the way that you and Matthew do this book,
Speaker 4: it's pretty interesting. It's it's all broken up by chapters,
Speaker 4: and and I do want to say that, while you
Speaker 4: know there's there there is obviously a ton that is
Speaker 4: paid to the family, it also gets into the nitty
Speaker 4: gritty and the good and I guess a little bit
Speaker 4: of the not so good of Nelson, but the But
Speaker 4: it's written chapter by chapter, where you write a chapter
Speaker 4: and Matthew writes a chapter, or you'll write about something
Speaker 4: and then Matthew will do it. How did you guys
Speaker 4: decide to break it up that way?
Speaker 2: Well, that's that's a great question. Well, first off, there
Speaker 2: are no ghostwriters involved in this at all. This is
Speaker 2: all me and Matthew. We've got a very specific voice.
Speaker 2: And when we're putting together the so to speak, the
Speaker 2: big rocks, like what are the chapters we're going to
Speaker 2: have to conquer here, we actually kind of divvy them
Speaker 2: up based on who was most passionate or had the
Speaker 2: best memory of certain things that went down.
Speaker 3: That's initially how we did it.
Speaker 2: There was only one chapter where we each wrote our
Speaker 2: take on a particular event, and that was the event.
Speaker 1: We just talked about the crash.
Speaker 2: But for everything else it really flowed very very well.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not a short book. It's over five
Speaker 2: hundred pages, over fifty chapters, and to be honest with you,
Speaker 2: we could have written another book equally as long if
Speaker 2: you really wanted to do like the old adults only
Speaker 2: version that's coming next.
Speaker 3: This one.
Speaker 2: We just had to kind of take the big swipes
Speaker 2: at things and it's been an amazing ride. Man.
Speaker 3: Our childhood was not Ozzie and Harriet.
Speaker 2: Our career, man, it just had more ups and downs
Speaker 2: than Magic Mountain. But the whole point was we always
Speaker 2: had each other, and we've always had this attitude that
Speaker 2: a lot of people in our industry have attacked. We
Speaker 2: are eternal optimists. We're grateful for everything. We are the
Speaker 2: opposite of the Kardashians. We are grateful for not entitled
Speaker 2: at all, and that's really helped us sometimes. It's all
Speaker 2: we've been able to have. Like I've got a producer
Speaker 2: friend named Jack Ponti, who worked with bon Jovi back
Speaker 2: in the day, who once said to us, I've never
Speaker 2: seen any two.
Speaker 1: Guys able to make more out of nothing than you guys.
Speaker 2: And I went thank you, and he's like, I didn't
Speaker 2: mean it as a compliment, and it's like, but we
Speaker 2: naturally did take it as a compliment.
Speaker 3: And that's what's really helped us. Man.
Speaker 4: So I jumped immediately to page one eighty four, Rocking
Speaker 4: the Radio, and it just so happened to be written
Speaker 4: by you. And it starts picking up where you guys
Speaker 4: are talking about how Geffen Records, who you're signed to,
Speaker 4: has you guys out on the road. And the plan was,
Speaker 4: how are you guys going to break through? Millie Vanilli's
Speaker 4: scandal has just broken. Here's two guys who obviously look alike,
Speaker 4: and they're going to be out on the road.
Speaker 1: So the whole thing was.
Speaker 4: Before anything is out, let's get them out on the road.
Speaker 4: And you guys are visiting two, three, four radio stations
Speaker 4: in a day, sometimes in four or five different cities
Speaker 4: cities in a day, And the whole thing was just
Speaker 4: get out there and get known, and get out there
Speaker 4: and get known, and oh quick side note, did you
Speaker 4: really play a radio station manager's daughter's sweet sixteen party?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Many of them, Absolutely, many of them. I also did
Speaker 2: a lot of those free radio shows. I'm using air
Speaker 2: quotes here. Radio shows. Sure, you show up with the
Speaker 2: band and you play for free, and then you find
Speaker 2: out that the company that owns the radio station is
Speaker 2: selling tickets and making a ton of money, and you're
Speaker 2: you're doing it for free just on the chance they're
Speaker 2: going to spin your record on the stations.
Speaker 3: We did a lot of those two.
Speaker 1: So you're I'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead, No, no,
Speaker 1: I mean what you were mentioning.
Speaker 2: Yes, we did have to go to all the radio
Speaker 2: stations because you talk about timing. As you mentioned, Milli
Speaker 2: Vanilli comes out like eight months before us. The whole
Speaker 2: scandal happens, actually eight months before we release. People see
Speaker 2: the two of us in spandex and assless chaps and
Speaker 2: they think we're like Milli Vanilla, you know, And honestly, dude,
Speaker 2: we were a lot.
Speaker 3: I mean, we really were.
Speaker 2: The image was insane, but our model was love us
Speaker 2: or hate us, You're going to know who we are.
Speaker 2: But the problem with that is being sons of having
Speaker 2: the image we had we had basically treated as guilty
Speaker 2: until proven innocent. Right going to all of those radio
Speaker 2: stations was not just to get known. It was to
Speaker 2: get in there, raw and unfiltered, two acoustic guitars, two voices.
Speaker 2: Of course, I don't know why you guys want us
Speaker 2: to sing it for in the morning and sound like
Speaker 2: we're in fine form, but that's kind of like the
Speaker 2: nature of it. You go out and you do these
Speaker 2: morning shows and you spread the word and it's it
Speaker 2: can't be doctored.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not auto tune. It's right there.
Speaker 2: So people could hear the Matthew and I actually know
Speaker 2: how to how to speak our mind, and we actually
Speaker 2: can sing, and we can actually play talker. I don't
Speaker 2: know why people wouldn't assume that we could, But that's
Speaker 2: what that whole thing was about, was just to get
Speaker 2: people talking at radio that like, hey, you know, I
Speaker 2: wanted to write off those Nelson boys, but man, they're pretty.
Speaker 4: Darn good, you know. So that's what we had to
Speaker 4: start doing. So you guys are on your way to
Speaker 4: the Bobby Poe Convention. We'll get into that in a second, and.
Speaker 1: That takes place.
Speaker 4: The Poe Convention is actually in Tyson's corner here in DC.
Speaker 4: But here's the part that I didn't realize. And now, Gunner,
Speaker 4: you won't you and I you will not remember me.
Speaker 4: That's okay, but you talk about You guys are in
Speaker 4: d C. And Pirate Radio plays your song out in
Speaker 4: Los Angeles and people start calling you, going, holy crap,
Speaker 4: Pirate Radio's playing your song. It's not out yet, like
Speaker 4: it hasn't been put out yet. You guys are just
Speaker 4: going and all of a sudden, Pirate starts playing it.
Speaker 4: Now the part, Gunner, that you won't remember is at
Speaker 4: Pirate Radio, I was Russell the Love Muscle.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, now I know who I'm talking to you.
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
Speaker 1: And so I remember playing.
Speaker 4: I remember you guys coming in and doing Christmas carols
Speaker 4: at Pirate. I feel like Pirate and Nelson did so
Speaker 4: much crap together we all may.
Speaker 1: As well have been joined at the hip.
Speaker 3: Ain't that the case?
Speaker 4: Man?
Speaker 3: Pirate Radio.
Speaker 1: Wow, that was just a different day in radio. It
Speaker 1: was so cool.
Speaker 2: I always tell people I love the fact that our
Speaker 2: first record came out before cell phones because we still
Speaker 2: had culpable deny, you know, no photographic proof in the pocket.
Speaker 2: You couldn't be tracked everywhere you went, and radio was fantastic.
Speaker 2: Pirate Radio was a station in LA that basically auspiciously
Speaker 2: played what they wanted to play, right, And this was
Speaker 2: at a time when all the big companies, the big
Speaker 2: corporations that ran radio were formatting everything. And this is
Speaker 2: before Jack FM eliminated a lot of the DJs, and
Speaker 2: it was really great. It's kind of like the Wild
Speaker 2: West for radio. And we got into trouble all the
Speaker 2: time with those guys. But the problem was we were
Speaker 2: out on those radio tours, like we just mentioned, going
Speaker 2: from city to city to city, and I was starting
Speaker 2: to get phone calls from my friends going, hey, man,
Speaker 2: your song sounds great on the radio and we'd never
Speaker 2: heard it before, and it was very frustrating. So this
Speaker 2: convention you mentioned, the Bobby Coat Boat Convention, legendary radio
Speaker 2: convention that they don't do anymore because.
Speaker 1: Ye strippers and cocaine.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no, no, I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: What are you talking about?
Speaker 2: And it was one of those things too, because we
Speaker 2: were always, you know, making the most out of what
Speaker 2: we had.
Speaker 3: That particular convention.
Speaker 2: Our record label, Geffen rec was too cheap to get
Speaker 2: a sweet upstairs where people were normally the radio guys
Speaker 2: were normally corded, And so Matthew and I opened up
Speaker 2: our guitar cases at the foot of the one elevator
Speaker 2: that people would have to go up and down all day,
Speaker 2: and we opened up our guitar cases and started busking
Speaker 2: right there and playing our instruments and singing our songs.
Speaker 2: And that's how we kind of introduced ourselves to a
Speaker 2: lot of different radio people. And on the ride home
Speaker 2: from the convention, one of our friends at radio said, Hey,
Speaker 2: this is for the Nelson Boys, who were complaining about
Speaker 2: the fact that they've never heard their song on the radio.
Speaker 2: This is for you boys, And they played Love and
Speaker 2: Affection and we had one of those that thing you
Speaker 2: do moments. We've literally pulled over the car freaking out.
Speaker 2: And I love radio compression. It was the first time
Speaker 2: we ever heard our song on the radio.
Speaker 3: Was awesome, and YouTube.
Speaker 4: Were jumping around like you just won the super Bowl
Speaker 4: on the side of the New Jersey Turnpike.
Speaker 1: Well, that's pretty freaking cool, man, that's awesome. No, I
Speaker 1: think it's great. I love that. That's in the.
Speaker 2: Book, dude, We're just a couple of kids from Burbank
Speaker 2: who just wanted to make music. We happened to have
Speaker 2: a famous father that you know, was you know, sold
Speaker 2: half or half a billion singles during his career. No pressure,
Speaker 2: mind you, But to us, we just had music around
Speaker 2: the house all the time, and we wanted to do
Speaker 2: our own thing like the other generations of Nelson's had done.
Speaker 2: Our grandpa had a big band and he had a
Speaker 2: number one in nineteen thirty five, and our dad has
Speaker 2: had his and you know, we had our success when
Speaker 2: spandex was still a privilege and not a rite, and
Speaker 2: it was great, man, it was a big, big fun
Speaker 2: But they were songs that we wrote ourselves, that we
Speaker 2: produced ourselves.
Speaker 3: And now here we are, man, all.
Speaker 2: These years later, talking about a book that we wrote ourselves.
Speaker 2: It's pretty cool, hey, is it true?
Speaker 4: Like like when Ricky Nelson would your dad was huge,
Speaker 4: People would break into the house to like like climb
Speaker 4: up the lattice work and break into the house. And
Speaker 4: then his mom, your grandmother, would go meet him there
Speaker 4: and like take them downstairs and serve them breakfast.
Speaker 3: Pretty much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean she was actually really used to the
Speaker 2: ty Bopper's kind of breaking. Everybody knew where the Nelson's lived,
Speaker 2: by the way, if I mean a lot of your
Speaker 2: listeners are too young to remember, but there was a
Speaker 2: family television show called The Adventures of Ozzy and Harriet.
Speaker 2: They ran for fourteen years and four hundred and thirty
Speaker 2: five episodes, and there was an establishing shot at the
Speaker 2: beginning of each episode of a big white house that
Speaker 2: the family walked out of the front door and waved
Speaker 2: to the camera that was their real house at eighteen
Speaker 2: twenty two Caminal palm Merrow in Hollywood. Everyone knew where
Speaker 2: that Nelson's lived, and it was a different time. You
Speaker 2: didn't have you didn't have.
Speaker 1: A big walls or security details.
Speaker 2: And Grandma Harriet would tell us that she was very
Speaker 2: used to when our dad caught a lick with his music.
Speaker 2: It was only like sixteen or seventeen, but it was
Speaker 2: a phenomenon. Her going up to put away our dad's
Speaker 2: laundry and she's here like giggling, and she'd look over
Speaker 2: and she'd see saddle shoes poking out from behind the
Speaker 2: curtains by the window. I mean, girls would sneak in
Speaker 2: all the time, and she would just you know, be
Speaker 2: friendly to them and stuff and tell them that they
Speaker 2: couldn't do that and take them downstairs and ask them
Speaker 2: if they were hungry or whatever.
Speaker 1: She was Harriet, she was awesome, but different times totally, Gunnard,
Speaker 1: let me ask you this.
Speaker 4: So there's there's a point in the book where you're
Speaker 4: talking about how Nelson. So, so the song, the song
Speaker 4: is out, the song is starting to get played, MTV
Speaker 4: is starting to play it. You're back in Los Angeles
Speaker 4: and before you went out on the road and before
Speaker 4: the song started getting played. There there's a mall in
Speaker 4: Sherman Oaks called the Galleria, and it was where you
Speaker 4: and you and Matthew would go, just like any teenager
Speaker 4: living in Sherman Oaks or living in that area would go.
Speaker 1: You just went to the mall as kids. Nobody knew
Speaker 1: who you were, nobody cared who you were. You were
Speaker 1: just two kids walking around the mall.
Speaker 4: And then all of a sudden, love and affection breaks
Speaker 4: and you guys are going to go do an in
Speaker 4: store appearance at the mall, and it is you guys
Speaker 4: show up at the mall, and it's been two weeks
Speaker 4: since the last time you two were at the mall
Speaker 4: just shopping at that was at was the moment that
Speaker 4: you guys got off the elevator and it is thousands
Speaker 4: of people in the mall waiting to see you guys.
Speaker 4: Is that the moment where it finally clicked of oh crap,
Speaker 4: we did it.
Speaker 2: That well, it was a different kind of realization. It
Speaker 2: was like, oh crap, this is dangerous.
Speaker 3: I mean it was.
Speaker 2: First off, it was freaking awesome. I'm not gonna lie
Speaker 2: about that. It was amazing. But the difference that being
Speaker 2: on television makes, that was the only difference we shopped
Speaker 2: for our trip to New York. We sat in for
Speaker 2: Daisy Fuentes, who was on vacation, and did a show
Speaker 2: called dial MTV where Matthew and I were front announcing
Speaker 2: and back announcing videos but playing in and out of
Speaker 2: the commercial breaks with our acoustic guitars and singing, and
Speaker 2: we were kind of like a little bubble there when
Speaker 2: we were doing that week of hosting. And then we
Speaker 2: come back to Los Angeles to our stomping grounds and
Speaker 2: the mall you're talking about, this is the same mall
Speaker 2: that they filmed Fast Times at Ridgemont High End and
Speaker 2: the in store that we were doing was at the
Speaker 2: Licorice Pizza record store that was in that movie, and
Speaker 2: so we get off the freight elevator and the sound
Speaker 2: hit us like a jet engine. It was absolutely phenomenal
Speaker 2: and a little scary, to be honest. We tried to
Speaker 2: keep everybody very calm. And you know, matt and I
Speaker 2: are still the same guys. We haven't changed it all.
Speaker 2: The only difference was doing that work on MTV for
Speaker 2: the week. It's incredible what that can do. Yeah, hey, look,
Speaker 2: get on TV and it turns you from a solid
Speaker 2: five into at least a strong eight.
Speaker 3: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: And you know, it was a different time too, because
Speaker 2: now we are assaulted by input from our cell phones
Speaker 2: and TikTok and all that stuff, and we've got short
Speaker 2: attention span theater. But back then MTV was the eight
Speaker 2: hundred pound Gorilla. It was on twenty four hours a day.
Speaker 2: All the kids watched it all the time, and that
Speaker 2: was really great, and Matthew and I really seemed to
Speaker 2: connect very very well with the MTV culture and did
Speaker 2: a lot of it, went on to do a lot
Speaker 2: of hosting for them, and we had four number one
Speaker 2: videos with that first record After the Rain and you know,
Speaker 2: bottom line was, back then you could have that kind
Speaker 2: of video play driven success. And everything's changed now, of course,
Speaker 2: but just like every Nelson before, you take advantage of
Speaker 2: the technology you've got at the time and do the
Speaker 2: best you can. Unfortunately for us, man, it really it
Speaker 2: caught a lick with a vengeance.
Speaker 3: It was. It was pretty intense.
Speaker 1: Now, let me ask you this.
Speaker 4: That night, you guys go to the Rainbow Room on
Speaker 4: the Sunset Strip just to kind of celebrate, like, holy crap,
Speaker 4: that was amazing. At the end, when you guys are
Speaker 4: leaving the Penthouse, pet of the Year grabs Matthew's hand
Speaker 4: and wants to take him back to the hotel room,
Speaker 4: and she says, I'm gonna f your brains out, and
Speaker 4: Matthew says, pauses for a moment, and then says, Nope,
Speaker 4: I'm not going, and that gives us whole reason about
Speaker 4: why he's not going, And then the band gives him crap.
Speaker 1: If she would have grabbed Gunner's hand, would you have gone.
Speaker 2: Well, she would have been walking. Funny, let's just say
Speaker 2: we're very, very different people. We give Matthew crap about
Speaker 2: that moment all the time, because you know, of course
Speaker 2: this was the beginning of the success back then, and
Speaker 2: you know, he had his morals and his standards, and
Speaker 2: he was like, oh, well, you know a week ago,
Speaker 2: you wouldn't have cared. And mon said, there going, that's
Speaker 2: a freakinghouse peut.
Speaker 3: Of the year.
Speaker 1: What are you doing?
Speaker 2: And Matthew has, I think regretted that that moral stand
Speaker 2: that he took with the Penthouse pet of the Year.
Speaker 3: I think he's an idiot.
Speaker 2: But I'm happy to say that Matthew thinks he's an
Speaker 2: idiot now too.
Speaker 1: Do you know the other part that I didn't realize.
Speaker 4: You talk about going to a kiss show and seeing
Speaker 4: them play. I believe it's with Winger and Slaughter and
Speaker 4: you're talking, You're talking to Gene Simmons, and there's six
Speaker 4: thousand people at the show, and Jean's miserable. He's like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, this is all disappearing in front of
Speaker 4: our eyes, like it's all falling apart.
Speaker 1: You're like, oh my god, there's six thousand people here.
Speaker 1: This is awesome. You and Matthew go out to the soundboard.
Speaker 4: Anyway, the whole thing, But I never heard, I guess
Speaker 4: why would I have ever heard? But the story about
Speaker 4: you telling Gene, honestly, put your makeup on.
Speaker 1: Nobody cares about you.
Speaker 3: Guys.
Speaker 1: You're ugly or you're That's not what they're here to say.
Speaker 4: They want to see the circus, they want to see
Speaker 4: everything around it.
Speaker 1: Weirdly, Nelson saves Kiss.
Speaker 2: Well, first off, I mean, Gene, we had a great
Speaker 2: relationship back in the day. We were all managed by
Speaker 2: the same manager. So Kiss was managed by the same
Speaker 2: guy we were, and so we got a chance to
Speaker 2: spend a little time there. And that was at the
Speaker 2: Long Beach Arena. When that all went down. We were
Speaker 2: backstage and Gene was looking out over the It was
Speaker 2: kind of like one of those those skyboxes that the
Speaker 2: dressing room was in, and he was looking out over
Speaker 2: the crowd and he was bemoaning the fact that the
Speaker 2: place held twelve thousand people and six thousand people were there,
Speaker 2: and he was like, Oh, I think it's over, and
Speaker 2: I can't believe this. It's like, Gene a kidding down there.
Speaker 2: Six thousand people here, it's awesome, give him a great show.
Speaker 2: So I just don't know what to do. It's getting tougher.
Speaker 2: It's like, Jeane, you know, I'll give you my insight.
Speaker 2: Here's my opinion. No one wants to see you guys
Speaker 2: without your makeup on. You know, they're coming for the circus.
Speaker 2: That's what they want, right, I'm telling you, If you
Speaker 2: gave them what they wanted, if you put the makeup
Speaker 2: back on and called it your farewell tour, you could
Speaker 2: sell tickets for a thousand bucks apiece. Now, by the way,
Speaker 2: back then, no one had done anything that autlandish. A
Speaker 2: thousand bucks a ticket now it's normal. Back then it
Speaker 2: was insane. People were selling tickets for twelve bucks a ticket.
Speaker 2: And he just, you know, in Geene fashion, he kind
Speaker 2: of looked at me and he throwed as brown Euan,
Speaker 2: you really think so it's a Geene. I don't know
Speaker 2: anybody seriously. If you put that makeup back on and
Speaker 2: you had the fire and the blood and the whole thing,
Speaker 2: and you called it your farewell tour, who wouldn't spend
Speaker 2: a thousand dollars a ticket. Now, I'm not saying that
Speaker 2: that conversation was what caused it, but I definitely think
Speaker 2: it fanned some flames. I think he was thinking about
Speaker 2: that anyways, right, But I think just sitting here with
Speaker 2: a guy who looked like Faara faucet and talking about.
Speaker 3: That whole thing.
Speaker 2: You know, the one thing that Nelson and Kiss both
Speaker 2: knew how to do was market you know, we had
Speaker 2: an image, you had a brand, and it was outlandish
Speaker 2: and outrageous and it wasn't normal and it got people talking.
Speaker 2: We understood each other on that level. And you know,
Speaker 2: the guy's a marketing genius. I can't take that away
Speaker 2: from him. You know, he knows what he's doing and
Speaker 2: he was smart enough to do exactly that. Put that
Speaker 2: makeup back on and you know, get out there and
Speaker 2: do that. Gene Simmons kind of walked thing that he does, and.
Speaker 3: Man, it was awesome.
Speaker 2: And you know, after that, people enjoyed the Kiss Farewell
Speaker 2: tour for a full thirty years. Hey, we're chapters forty
Speaker 2: four and forty five deliberately one after the other and
Speaker 2: then written the way that they were, or not written
Speaker 2: the way that they were.
Speaker 1: Was that very intentional.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think, I don't have a book in
Speaker 3: front of me.
Speaker 4: Chapter forty four talks about it walks through how you
Speaker 4: guys sold millions and millions of records. You don't make
Speaker 4: any money, the debt, but it talks about number one,
Speaker 4: would you do it all over again? And the answer
Speaker 4: is yes, And you talk specifically about the kid watching
Speaker 4: the After the Rain video and what that meant to
Speaker 4: him and how that means more than selling records, And
Speaker 4: then it goes into forty five. Is you and Matthew
Speaker 4: talking about what you want to say to your ex wives?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the most writing I've done in this
Speaker 2: book was was that particular that last chapter you mentioned.
Speaker 2: When people get the book, they'll understand what I'm saying, right,
Speaker 2: But no, there wasn't intense. The placement was not intentional.
Speaker 2: But you know what is really important is when I
Speaker 2: talk to young artists nowadays, are people trying to make
Speaker 2: their mark in the wild West, That is the music business,
Speaker 2: or what's left of it right now. The most important
Speaker 2: thing you can do is really try to figure out
Speaker 2: what it is you're about. What is it you have
Speaker 2: to say that is so special and so unique and
Speaker 2: so important that your fan out there that hasn't heard
Speaker 2: you yet or hasn't seen you yet has to go
Speaker 2: to you to get that exact thing.
Speaker 3: And you mentioned a letter.
Speaker 2: There's a stack of letters, actually, but that particular letter
Speaker 2: that you mentioned is in my safe right now, and
Speaker 2: it was from a kid who, at thirteen years of age,
Speaker 2: as a way back in the day would have been
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety, I had spent all day at school giving
Speaker 2: away their possessions to their friends, and they were depressed.
Speaker 2: They had marked that day was the day they were
Speaker 2: going to end it all. Their parents were going to
Speaker 2: be out of the house that day, and he had
Speaker 2: it all planned. And he went back to his house
Speaker 2: and he took his stepfather's thirty eight out of the
Speaker 2: drawer and he had it on his lap and he
Speaker 2: was mustering up the courage to do it, and he
Speaker 2: was watching MTV in the background. Had just at that
Speaker 2: moment one of our videos came on, and it was
Speaker 2: our video for After the Rain, and there was a
Speaker 2: line in that song which is don't be afraid to
Speaker 2: lose what was never meant to be. And then he
Speaker 2: watched the video and he saw the arc of it,
Speaker 2: and it's about a kid who was kind of in
Speaker 2: his situation, and it gave him enough time to pause
Speaker 2: and call his grandmother and she came over and they intervened,
Speaker 2: got him treatment and it had saved his life. So
Speaker 2: he wrote me a letter about that that I have
Speaker 2: in my safe that I pull out every now and
Speaker 2: again when I'm feeling a little.
Speaker 3: Low about why we do what we do.
Speaker 2: But the coolest thing was about a month ago, this
Speaker 2: guy shows up at one of our shows in an
Speaker 2: autograph language till the very end, and it turns out
Speaker 2: to be that kid now a man, and he wanted
Speaker 2: to introduce me to his children.
Speaker 1: Dude, that's awesome, Dude, are you kidding me? That's amazing,
Speaker 1: that's awesome, that's great.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So it's not about the stuff, man, it's not about
Speaker 2: the fame, it's not about the fortune.
Speaker 3: It's not about the power.
Speaker 2: I've had all of that and lost it all and
Speaker 2: got it all back and lost it all. You know,
Speaker 2: you sit there and you kind of go, man, what
Speaker 2: is really really really important? And to me, music has
Speaker 2: always just been a means to an end, you know,
Speaker 2: it's about connecting with people. That Nelson's have always been
Speaker 2: in the connection business, not the entertainment business, right, And
Speaker 2: any chance we can get to, you know, give people
Speaker 2: pause or lift him up a little bit or or whatever,
Speaker 2: we've done it. And a lot of times it's cost
Speaker 2: us everything and more that we've had but it's really
Speaker 2: been worth In that chapter you mentioned, I mean, if
Speaker 2: somebody had said to me in the very beginning, Okay,
Speaker 2: you're going to be the most famous person in the
Speaker 2: world for two years, but it's going to cost you everything,
Speaker 2: and then some you're going to be in debt and
Speaker 2: paying that debt off for thirty years. You're going to
Speaker 2: become the pariah overnight that you never earned the brunt
Speaker 2: of jokes because the paradigm of music shifted, and it's
Speaker 2: going to take you that thirty years to work yourself back.
Speaker 3: Would you still do it? And the answer is where
Speaker 3: do I sign up?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, let's go.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, call me a glutton for punishment
Speaker 2: or just a raging code of pennant.
Speaker 3: I've got the greatest life in the world.
Speaker 4: Man, Hey, last thing, and then I know I got
Speaker 4: to let you jump. If the paid per view double
Speaker 4: bill would have taken place with Axel Rose fighting Vince
Speaker 4: Neil and you fighting Sebastian Bach, would you have totally
Speaker 4: kicked his ass?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know, I you know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I will I will tell you this though, I was
Speaker 2: a big Matthew says, Yes, Matthew says two things.
Speaker 4: Number one, that Gunner was a huge man whore and
Speaker 4: that you would have kicked his ass because of your
Speaker 4: karate training.
Speaker 2: Well it was actually combat kunk ku, but who's training.
Speaker 3: But no, no, it's okay, I studied both. But you know,
Speaker 3: it wasn't that.
Speaker 2: It was a time when everybody was exchanging barbs through
Speaker 2: the press and all that stuff, and Sebastian said some
Speaker 2: stuff not about me, but about my twin and he
Speaker 2: was physically threatening and that was kind of crossing the line.
Speaker 3: So I just kind of said, you know, why don't
Speaker 3: we stop being stupid.
Speaker 2: Let's find a state that's unsanctioned and let's do this
Speaker 2: is before the UFC. Let's do it and you know,
Speaker 2: no rules sort of thing, and sell it on pay
Speaker 2: per view. Let's not be dumb. Let's all make ourselves millionaires.
Speaker 3: Let's go.
Speaker 2: And to me, the way I looked at it, I
Speaker 2: couldn't lose because Sebastian's like nine feet tall. Okay, the
Speaker 2: guy is really and he's tough man. I'm not saying
Speaker 2: he's a worse at all. Guy is a tough man.
Speaker 2: But you know, if I lost the fight, all right,
Speaker 2: I just got my ask exactly exactly, you know, but
Speaker 2: if he lost the fight, if he lost the fight,
Speaker 2: that would have been bad for him, right. So anyways, look,
Speaker 2: it all worked itself out, and I will say, man
Speaker 2: to me, very very very few guys sang rock and
Speaker 2: roll better than Sebastian Bach. The guys have just a
Speaker 2: monster vocalist. I've always loved his vocals. I don't like
Speaker 2: his temper, but I've always admired his artistry.
Speaker 1: The book What Happened to Your Hair?
Speaker 4: How We Played Loud, Loved, Proud, and Never Back Down
Speaker 4: Together is out and available.
Speaker 3: Hey.
Speaker 4: By the way, the chapter what if Pop Hadn't died
Speaker 4: beautiful tribute Gunner.
Speaker 1: I thought it was really really.
Speaker 3: Sweet, banks man. That's that's how we actually ended the book.
Speaker 3: That was the question.
Speaker 2: And you know, of course I give everything just to
Speaker 2: have five more minutes of my best friend, my dad here.
Speaker 2: But you know what, if I'm really honest about it,
Speaker 2: none of the songs that people know, almost that letter
Speaker 2: that we talked about would not be in my safe
Speaker 2: If our pop had had lived, I would be a
Speaker 2: drummer in his band, probably right. I would never have
Speaker 2: written that song. I never would have done any of
Speaker 2: that stuff, So I don't know, Man, everything happens for
Speaker 2: a reason. It doesn't feel that way when you're going
Speaker 2: through it in the moment. But looking back on my
Speaker 2: life now, man, everything that I've gone through has made
Speaker 2: me who I am, and I don't regret that part
Speaker 2: of it. But I also believe that your positivity is
Speaker 2: a superpower and that the only control you really have
Speaker 2: no matter who you are, because the circumstances are always
Speaker 2: going to be the stimulus is going to be the
Speaker 2: same as what you make out of it. And Matthew
Speaker 2: and I have been making diamonds out of lumps of
Speaker 2: coal for our entire lives.
Speaker 4: And by the way, if that doesn't happen, g Norley,
Speaker 4: Charlie and I are at Griffith Park Zoo or just
Speaker 4: out of Griffith Park with everybody for the filming of
Speaker 4: the After the Rain video.
Speaker 1: Oh nice, but you were Russell the love muscle y,
Speaker 1: Yes exactly, of course. Thank you for remembering Gunner all right, buddy.
Speaker 1: The book is fantastic.
Speaker 2: Congratulations dude, Thank you so much, and Merry Christmas, Happy
Speaker 2: holidays to everybody out there. And man, good talking to
Speaker 2: you after all of these years and what happened to
Speaker 2: your hair. It's on Amazon right now.
Speaker 1: Appreciate it, Thanks Gunner, thank you, Bye.