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Speaker 1: Home of the best Bengals coverage and those Cincinnati Reds. Danny,

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Speaker 1: good morning to you, sir. I really appreciate this. This

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Speaker 1: is a complex situation this morning, and we'll.

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Speaker 2: Have it all straight now. Alrighty, jumping right to it.

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Speaker 1: Got my issue of Ohio Autor News about it was

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Speaker 1: a couple issues ago, and they're in the story. Nearly

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Speaker 1: forty six million pounds of carp removed in Illinois. I

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Speaker 1: thought that was intriguing and that was the first half

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Speaker 1: of the year. So digging into it and tracking it down.

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Speaker 2: We have what.

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Speaker 1: Is known as the Invasive Carp Regional Coordinating Committee, and

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Speaker 1: I welcome Janet Lebson with the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

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Speaker 2: Janet, good morning, how are you?

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Speaker 3: Good morning, Chip, Thank you for inviting me to join

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Speaker 3: you and your listeners this morning.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is fantastic And in thirty one years I've

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Speaker 1: ever had anyone from the Fish and Wildlife Service, Shame

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Speaker 1: on me. But that is about to change drastically going

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Speaker 1: down the road, because there's a lot of other subject

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Speaker 1: matter out there to cover. Nonetheless, coming back to this,

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Speaker 1: this is a huge regional coordinating committee and I hadn't

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Speaker 1: I hadn't realized that this existed until my story came

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Speaker 1: in my Ohio Outdoor News. So you could give us

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Speaker 1: an overview, that'd be fantastic.

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Speaker 3: Sure, I'd be happy to And maybe I should start

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Speaker 3: by saying, the partnership that you're referring to is focused

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Speaker 3: on the Great Lakes region and keeping Karp out of

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Speaker 3: the Great Lakes, but there's a whole other partnership for

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Speaker 3: the Mississippi River basin that involves just as many partners.

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Speaker 3: In fact, altogether there are forty seven partners formally joined

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Speaker 3: up in partnership to manage the invasive carp situation. So

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Speaker 3: one reason I wanted you to have Brian also on

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Speaker 3: your show is because Brian is very much involved with

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Speaker 3: in leading in both of those partnerships.

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Speaker 2: So you get this the.

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Speaker 4: Whole big picture there.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly what we need, is the whole big picture,

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Speaker 1: because in twenty minutes, that's the hell of a picture

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Speaker 1: to paint for our listeners out there. Even though they're

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Speaker 1: all in the woods, are heading to the woods going

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Speaker 1: deer hunting or maybe duck hunting or something like that,

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Speaker 1: we're by the same token, we're anglers too, So we

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Speaker 1: appreciate and love our waterways that we use during the

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Speaker 1: balance of the year.

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Speaker 2: But what this covers what four species of carp?

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Speaker 3: Yes, there are four different kinds. When we use the

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Speaker 3: term and base of carp. There's a big head carp,

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Speaker 3: silver carp, grass carp, and black carp. And the kind

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Speaker 3: that most people tend to know about are the silver

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Speaker 3: carp because they notoriously leap out of the water when

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Speaker 3: they're disturbed by a boat. And I'm guessing a lot

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Speaker 3: of your listeners have seen the tons of YouTube video

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Speaker 3: there are on this and of course can be a

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Speaker 3: very big safety issue as.

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Speaker 1: But the coordinating groups, and there's a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: are they under the auspices of the US Fish and

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Speaker 1: Wildlife Service or you're just a partner.

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Speaker 3: We're a partner, and we have a leading role in

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Speaker 3: it because of the federal funding that's come into it. So,

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Speaker 3: for example, the Mississippi River Basin Partnership has been around

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Speaker 3: for a long time. The states came together to manage

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Speaker 3: fisheries better in general, and then the karp situation just

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Speaker 3: kept getting worse and worse, and so that became one

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Speaker 3: of their focus areas and so we have a role

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Speaker 3: in that one. But then the Great Lakes One started

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Speaker 3: in twenty ten when people started to get more and

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Speaker 3: more concerned that they were going to get into the

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Speaker 3: Great Lakes through the Chicago Area Waterway because of the

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Speaker 3: abundant population in the Illinois River where there's that access there.

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Speaker 1: So overall, where are we in the process of management?

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's really kind of a loaded question, But

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Speaker 1: are are we at a certain stage or a point

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Speaker 1: in time from I guess your perspective.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let me give you a little perspective on that.

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Speaker 3: I think things have changed a lot over the last

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Speaker 3: fifteen years because of these partnerships coalescing and because of

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Speaker 3: the federal state collaboration on this and Congress providing more

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Speaker 3: funding so that we could do more, and what we're

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Speaker 3: doing to try to protect recreational fishing opportunities and native

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Speaker 3: fisheries and the communities that are relying on tourism and

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Speaker 3: other water recreation to help with that. What we're trying

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Speaker 3: to do is three main things. Even though the situation

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Speaker 3: with KARP is different in different parts of the Mississippi

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Speaker 3: River basin, there are three main we're doing. The first

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Speaker 3: one is targeted mass removal, getting massive amounts of fish

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Speaker 3: out of the water, and those efforts are led by

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Speaker 3: the States, and Brian can tell you all about that.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 1: That is a great place for us to kind of

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Speaker 1: take a quick break. Then we when we come back,

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Speaker 1: we'll get the other I guess second and third portions

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Speaker 1: of that. And at the same time we'll get Brian

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Speaker 1: Schoening in here, who's the Aquatic News and Species program

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Speaker 1: manager out of the Illinois DNR.

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Speaker 2: So everybody sit tight.

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Speaker 1: This is tough on my end, even tougher on everybody

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Speaker 1: else's in my producer's going down seven hundred WLW Cincinnati,

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Speaker 1: Big Outdoors back in a moment. Hey, we're back the

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Speaker 1: Big Outdoors News Radio seven hundred WLW Cincinnati, home of

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Speaker 1: the best Bengals coverage in the Cincinnati.

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Speaker 2: Reds and much more. But we'll save that for later.

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Speaker 1: So Janet Lebson is with me, she's with the US

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Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Service, and Brian Schoening is joining us

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Speaker 1: with the Illinois d n R. We're talking about the

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Speaker 1: invasive carp programs on kind of the big world view

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Speaker 1: in the US, and Janet, we were kind of had

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Speaker 1: to go pay some bills catch that break and so

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Speaker 1: there's two other parts to the where we are at

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Speaker 1: this stage in time.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I was saying, targeted mass removal is one of

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Speaker 3: the main things we do to manage a base of CARP,

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Speaker 3: and developing deterrent technologies and barrier constructing barriers is the

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Speaker 3: second big thing we do. And the third thing is

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Speaker 3: widespread monitoring. And that's significant in the sense that it

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Speaker 3: informs the other two and it helps us prioritize where

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Speaker 3: to do the mass removal and what kind of technologies

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Speaker 3: we might need in different places, et cetera. And I

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Speaker 3: just wanted to mention since you do have a lot

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Speaker 3: of anglers listening, I hope they'll never underestimate how important

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Speaker 3: it is and they encounter invasive KLARP to let their

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Speaker 3: state DNR know and to if they can take a

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Speaker 3: moment to learn to accurately id the fish, because even

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Speaker 3: one person finding one in an area that we didn't

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Speaker 3: know about can really help with our prevention.

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Speaker 1: Well, and this neck of the woods at least, that

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Speaker 1: sims downy area, but you know beyond, but you've got

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Speaker 1: the Ohio River and there's a lot of people out

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Speaker 1: there fishing for sawguy right now, which will continue through

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Speaker 1: probably February of March. So you know, who knows what

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Speaker 1: what might turn up, and so I Jana Hope just

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Speaker 1: kind of hang on and listen in if you will. Brian,

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Speaker 1: let me bring you in with the Illinois DNR, because

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Speaker 1: I guess the referral to forty six million pounds of

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Speaker 1: clarp removed in Illinois in a half a year or

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Speaker 1: first half of twenty twenty five is this huge.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's a lot of dogfit.

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Speaker 4: So that number is a cumulative number of the course

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Speaker 4: of the last several years. Typically, what we do as

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Speaker 4: far as removal on the Illinois River is about somewhere

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Speaker 4: between six and eight million pounds a year with our

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Speaker 4: commercial fishing incentive program, and then we have contracted fishers

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Speaker 4: in the upper part of the river that remove a

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Speaker 4: million million and a half a year.

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Speaker 2: So if we take those two numbers on.

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Speaker 4: An annual base, it's roughly about ten million pounds out

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Speaker 4: of the Illinois River. We also are engaged with Mississippi River.

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Speaker 4: Illinois is kind of unique and that we've got this

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Speaker 4: connection to the Great Lakes see the Illinois River, but

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Speaker 4: we also have a footprint in the Mississippi River and

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Speaker 4: the Ohio River. So we're involved with a whole host

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Speaker 4: of other partners working on removal programs. We're actually we

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Speaker 4: administer instead of programs for process or removal in Kentucky

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Speaker 4: and Barkley Lakes. Even so, we're working with Kentucky, We're

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Speaker 4: working with Indiana, we're working with Tennessee, with Missouri. This

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Speaker 4: is a problem that needs to have a big vision

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Speaker 4: approach to it. No single state is going to be

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Speaker 4: able to really move the needle in a meaningful way.

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Speaker 4: It needs to be a collaborative effort across sub basins

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Speaker 4: and the entire Mississippi River basin to really have the

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Speaker 4: impact that we'd.

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Speaker 1: Like has there any I don't recall anything of this

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Speaker 1: magnitude in terms of a species of fish, at least

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Speaker 1: fish you know in my lifetime.

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Speaker 2: Is that accurate?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So the analog I guess would be.

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Speaker 4: Sea lamper in the Great Lakes.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: These things came in in the fifties and started wreaking

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Speaker 4: havoc across and it required all of the Great Lake

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Speaker 4: states and provinces to come together and work on solutions.

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Speaker 4: And we're essentially re implementing that model with these particular

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Speaker 4: fish within the Mississippi River basin, and so we've always

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Speaker 4: had a collaborative work environment as it related to inner

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Speaker 4: jurisdictional fish within the Mississippi River micro which is miss

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Speaker 4: simeor State Cooperative Resource Association, has led that since the

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Speaker 4: early nineties. It's not official or you know, sort of

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Speaker 4: government sanctioned, but we are working towards that end as well.

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Speaker 4: With uh, we've got actually a couple of bills in

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Speaker 4: Congress for the establishment of a Mississippi River Basin Fisheries Commission,

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Speaker 4: which would you know, help to facilitate more of this

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Speaker 4: work and more alignment in programs and make sure that

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Speaker 4: we're implementing a unified collaborative approach across the basin. And

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Speaker 4: you know, that's really where we need to be.

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Speaker 1: Well that and it's a good point to kind of

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Speaker 1: hit a break because I've got quite a few questions.

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Speaker 2: Will never cover everything we need to in that five to.

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Speaker 1: Five thirty slot we're here sitting in for la last

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Speaker 1: thirty one years, but we're going to do our damned

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Speaker 1: chip Hart the Big Outdoors News Radio seven hundred WLW

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Speaker 1: Cincinnati will be back in a moment. Chip Haart, Gary

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Speaker 1: Jeff will be wandering in here at the bottom of

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Speaker 1: the hour and I'll let him talk to you about

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Speaker 1: the rest of the day because I got too much

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Speaker 1: to do this morning.

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Speaker 2: So Brian, Brian showing us with us.

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Speaker 1: He is the Aquatic Nuisance Program manager with the Illinois

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Speaker 1: DNR and part of this huge car coordinating committee or committees,

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Speaker 1: there's multiple committees. Have they acted, Brian, have any of

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Speaker 1: the species? Well, what do you what's the most concerning species?

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Speaker 1: You mentioned this? I think Janet earlier mentioned the silver car.

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Speaker 1: Has that gotten into like Lake Michigan through what was

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Speaker 1: that the Chicago River or any other you know, I

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Speaker 1: guess tributary.

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Speaker 4: So the silver car primarily confined below Dresden Island dam

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Speaker 4: ounta of Probably your listeners are not familiar with Illinois,

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Speaker 4: and it took me a little lot to get familiar

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Speaker 4: with this as well. But yeah, there's a there's an

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Speaker 4: electric barrier that is sort of close to Lake Michigan,

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Speaker 4: and they have not really been found. We picked up

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Speaker 4: maybe two fish over the course the last fifteen years.

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Speaker 4: Above that. We do extensive monitoring in the spring and

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Speaker 4: the fall, using DNA as well as traditional fishing gears

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Speaker 4: to to sort of monitor that to make sure that

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Speaker 4: we're not getting any fish through there, So pretty confident

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Speaker 4: that they're not in in Lake Michigan within the Ohio

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Speaker 4: River basin. Probably they're all the way up to Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 4: but the numbers are really not significant above about marklan Pool,

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Speaker 4: I'd say, so, yeah, so you know that area that

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Speaker 4: that area right there is sort of kind of a

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Speaker 4: little bit of the leading edge there. We don't have

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Speaker 4: reproduction up there, but we do have some adult fish.

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Speaker 4: And then you know the Mississippi River. They're up in

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Speaker 4: the Mississippi. But again that that sort of reproductive front

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Speaker 4: is about midway and that's sort of, you know, the

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Speaker 4: measure that we use to what, you know, how effective

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Speaker 4: we can be at controlling the populations. If we can

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Speaker 4: get fishing in place and places where we don't have reproduction,

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Speaker 4: we can really reduce numbers pretty significantly. And we've seen

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Speaker 4: that in Kentucky and Barkley Lakes. The coordinated commercial fishing

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Speaker 4: has reduced populations and they have not really seen any

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Speaker 4: reproduction in those two lakes. So it's had an overall

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Speaker 4: positive impact on those those native fisheries. You know, the

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Speaker 4: bassa crappy, the things that people go to those lakes

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Speaker 4: to fish for, so you know, we're trying to implement

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Speaker 4: those same sort of approaches within these other river basins

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Speaker 4: as well.

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Speaker 1: Back to the commercial fishing part, seems is that the

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Speaker 1: most effective. So what are these fish being used for

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Speaker 1: that are commercially caught.

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Speaker 4: So depending on which processor is buying them, there's any

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Speaker 4: number of things that they could be used for. A

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Speaker 4: lot of the fish go into fish meal, some of

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Speaker 4: it into fertilizer. Some is used for bait for either

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Speaker 4: crawlfish down south, you know the crawl fresh boils. They

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Speaker 4: use a bait for net or lobster, the same sort

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Speaker 4: of thing there. Some of it is used for pet

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Speaker 4: food and then there's also growing human consumption avenue as well.

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Speaker 2: This is actually these are.

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Speaker 4: The most consumed fish species in the world, all across

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Speaker 4: the world. Yeah, it's a recognized, highly sought after and

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Speaker 4: desired fish. The meat is light white and flaky. It's

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Speaker 4: very much like a crappie. The problems are just bony.

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Speaker 4: So it's hard to get American consumers to adopt something

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Speaker 4: that you know, it's it's not your traditional cod or

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Speaker 4: perch filet, so it makes it a little bit harder

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Speaker 4: sell but we've worked on that end as well with

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Speaker 4: our Illinois launched a copy initiative so several years ago,

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Speaker 4: which is this sort of a rebranding effort, similar to

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Speaker 4: what they did with Orange Ruffy or Chilean sea bass.

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Speaker 4: Those fish were respectively known as you know, slime head

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Speaker 4: and Patagonia two fish. So you know, we spent thirty

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Speaker 4: plus years convincing people that these fish were the worst

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Speaker 4: thing in the world right and that they're going to

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Speaker 4: destroy everything. It makes it really challenging to do a

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Speaker 4: pivot and then say, oh, by the way, they're good

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Speaker 4: to eat too, and you should give them a try. Well,

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Speaker 4: I mean, we're pretty open, but I know if we

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Speaker 4: use the you know, the Kopi is the name we

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Speaker 4: came up with the playoff of copious, and we've gotten

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Speaker 4: some traction with it. There's some folks that have adopted it,

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Speaker 4: and you know, it's tested really well.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not a.

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Speaker 4: Market I'm a fish biologist, so you know that's where

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Speaker 4: I come in.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, we got to hit a short break, but

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Speaker 1: you know I want to We'll continue putting this out there,

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Speaker 1: but we'll do the break, come back and tell how

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Speaker 1: people can get evolved and get more information and gosh,

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Speaker 1: I got so much more to ask, but I'll just

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Speaker 1: have to set that for another day. Chip Hart by

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Speaker 1: guest Brian showing with Illinois d n R and of

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Speaker 1: course Janet with the US Fish and Wildlife Service, the

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Speaker 1: Big Outdoors, this radio seven hundred WLW Cincinnati.

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Speaker 2: Sure ask for sustainable seafood.

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Speaker 1: And it lives in with US Fish and Wildlife Service.

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Speaker 1: Would you like to give everybody an opportunity to do

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Speaker 1: an Internet search for specifics on your end?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what I would recommend is we have a pretty

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Speaker 3: comprehensive website called Managing Invasive Carps. So if they use

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Speaker 3: that as the Google search with US Fish and Wildlife

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Speaker 3: Service should.

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Speaker 4: Take you there.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic Brian shooning with the Illinois DNR And if people

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Speaker 1: want to find out more about what's happening on your.

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Speaker 4: End, yeah, so I would say, you know, Invasivecarp dot

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Speaker 4: us is the ic ic R c C website, microrivers

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Speaker 4: dot org is the Mississippi River Basin, and then of

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Speaker 4: course we've got Illinois DNR. Folks are interested in what

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Speaker 4: we're doing at twoscope dot com, which is another website

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Speaker 4: with the human consumption market in mind. Yeah, I just

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Speaker 4: encourage your listeners. I mean, you've got district biologist, fisheries

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Speaker 4: biologists in your state. It for you, and they love

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Speaker 4: to hear from you. They want to hear from you.

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Speaker 4: If you've got questions, if you need answers to particular things,

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Speaker 4: or if you see something that you think is strange,

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Speaker 4: by all means, reach out to those folks. Go to

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Speaker 4: your agency's website to list the biologists. You can find

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Speaker 4: the right contact, or just call the general number.

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Speaker 2: They'll get in touch with the right person.

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Speaker 4: We work for the fishermen, so yes, we're here for

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Speaker 4: you absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And you know around here it's like you create. You

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Speaker 1: create the market first and then fulfill it. Okay, that

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Speaker 1: was an old WBN thing. That was another radio station. Okay, hey,

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Speaker 1: hey the two of you, thank you very much. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate and uh, we'll put it up on a Big

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Speaker 1: Outdoors Facebook page. But after that go to podcasts for

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Speaker 1: more Chip part the Big Outdoors News Radio seven hundred

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Speaker 1: WLW Cincinnati'd be safe in the woods, safe on the water,

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Speaker 1: and safe in that tree stand.