WEBVTT - Eddie & Rocky -- 12/23/25 0:00:07.440 --> 0:00:10.880 All right, it's see Eddie Rocky Show. Eddie Rocky out 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:16.520 Jason Williams alongside my partner in pod Dan Carol. How 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.520 are we looking, brother, good? You're already I'm good man. 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.880 You came in here hot. Let me know you're you're 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.239 ready to play some golf tomorrow as this weather is 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:26.920 heating up. 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:31.120 Yeah, buddy of mine, buddy of mine contacted me earlier today, 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:32.720 so we got tea times for tomorrow. 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:34.800 I said, I'm there, go win some money, my friend. 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:39.240 So so my I'm gonna say this right up front. 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.720 I'm gonna lean on you tomorrow for show prep. I've 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.879 already been working my friend already been working it. I've 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:49.280 already go enjoy, go enjoy there your time at the 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:53.199 golf court. I'll show prep tonight. I show prepped all 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:54.400 day today. I'll show prep tonight. 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:55.960 Them you know what, I got an easy way for 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:59.560 your show prop Just just ask Ai Ai Ai? Who 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.240 should I? What should I do for my radio show tomorrow? 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.200 I mean, is that? Is that what you do? 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:11.399 I am using AI sparingly now when I want to 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.560 get some get some facts or some background on some stuff. 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.440 But I have not asked it to create anything for me. 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.920 Well, interesting, you bring this up because we have our 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:25.000 official Eddie and Rocky a oh, I did, okay, the 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:29.119 main our official AI correspondent of the Eddie and Rocky Show, 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:33.800 our good friend Dave Hatter, who as long ago gotten 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:37.200 rid of his tinfoil hat because he it's officially everything 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:38.039 he says is true. 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.399 Well you you asked the first question, because I'm going 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:42.480 to be busy responding to this text message. 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:46.640 It says we dropped the ball on that one, Dave, 0:01:46.840 --> 0:01:49.440 Dave Hatter mayor Merry Christmas? How are you. 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:53.720 Merry Christmas? Birth? I'm good, thanks for having me on. 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.720 I took the day off. And Jason, you may be 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.000 too young to appreciate this. The damn will. I just 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:02.960 watched the original Alice Cooper Band how about that Songs 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.320 for Christmas Pudding event the other night. It's pretty awesome. 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:12.160 Really, I'll get much better than that. Well, it's funny 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.840 because Alice Cooper, when I was a kid, was seen 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:17.360 as like, oh man, like he's like one of those 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:21.320 satan heavy rocker guys, and like he's about as normal 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:29.880 in that world as you get, speaking of a normal. Well, 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:34.200 they dan just mentioned there about using Ai. I did 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:36.600 not do this in thinking we were going to have 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:41.040 you this week, but over the weekend, Dave Hatter, I 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.239 was looking to make a special logo for a special 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:49.239 event for my youth baseball team, my thirteen year old 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.680 baseball team. And I'm like, oh, you know what, and 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.160 it's a slogan that we use for the guys. And 0:02:55.240 --> 0:03:00.280 I'm like, I have a co pilot on my laptop up. 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.680 So I'm like, all right, and I took the plunge. 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:07.480 I used AI for the first time, and I got 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.560 down a two hour rabbit hole with AI on designing 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.919 all kinds of different logos for my baseball team, not 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:18.240 just the specific slogan one, but just other ones. And 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.200 I am I am fascinated by it. And not only that. 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.400 So then I turned around, just you know, an hour ago, 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:30.400 I'm given this gift of he's not listening baseball tickets. 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:32.720 We were trying to pick this a different stadium each 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:35.360 year to go to my sons and I and so 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:39.120 we're going to go to Atlanta next year, and so 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:40.680 you know, I wanted to make like kind of a 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:44.480 fake ticket stub to give to him as part of 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.440 his Christmas gift. I'm like, ah, man, I got to 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:51.160 find a template. No, I go back to AI boom. 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.320 Five minutes later, we got it all tweaked. It's good 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.840 to go, ready to print out, Dave Hatter, I have 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:02.920 crossed the threshold. I found the AI am I am? 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:04.880 I Is that a good thing for me to be 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.560 using that? Or is it? Is it stealing all of 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:10.720 my info as I'm doing this and it's going to 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:11.160 come back. 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:11.480 To haunt me? 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:17.679 Well, possibly some combination of both. Like most technology, Jason, 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.480 you know, it depends on the platform. You know. Here's 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:24.000 the thing with AI where it stands today. Now, you know, 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:25.680 I think a lot of the bloom was coming off 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:27.200 the roads, and you've got a lot of the people 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.279 who have been involved in it for a long time saying, 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.560 you know, it's it's kind of perhaps peaked based on 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.960 its current the current way that they've engineered it. I 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:39.840 don't know, We'll see. I can just tell you it's 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.360 funny you mentioned the graphics thing, because just recently used 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:44.839 it for something similar to that, and all I wanted 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:47.960 to do was replace a single word in the image 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:49.520 that it created, and I could not get it to 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:54.760 replace that word. Just one work so you know, I 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.520 think as long as you understand what it's good at 0:04:57.560 --> 0:04:59.320 and what it's not good at, when you understand the 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:01.359 issue of foluc nations and so forth, and then to 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:03.479 your point about it sucking up all your information that 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:05.680 the trade offs that you might be making when you 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:09.000 use it, it can be a really valuable, really handy 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:11.719 tool as long as you stay within the guardrails. You know, 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:13.839 if you don't know anything about a subject and you 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.360 just assume that what it tells you it's fact, that 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:20.400 can be really problematic. But as long as you stay 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:22.599 within the guardrails, it can save you an enormous amount 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.159 of time, especially like from a prototyping standpoint, if you 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:28.080 just want to get an idea for something, it's super 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:29.800 handy for that kind of thing, Like it will save 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:30.840 you an enormous amount of count. 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:32.839 And I thought this was pretty harmless and it was fun. 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.719 It was actually fun, like and I know what you say. 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:37.440 I know what you're saying, though, Like there were some 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.400 points where it's like, hey design this, and then it 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:42.920 would keep coming back and it wouldn't get You'd literally 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:46.039 tell it, hey drop that C logo, and it would 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.760 kept dropping that in there somehow, some way, and finally 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:53.320 I'd be like, let's do a reset get rid of 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:55.720 the sea with the quote, because it was calling at 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:59.279 that and then it finally did. So it took some time, 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.839 but on some tweaks, but I found it to be 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:05.920 useful and fun, and I think I'm going to use 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:07.520 one of those logos that it spit out. 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.680 Yeah, it really can be useful. Again, as long as 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:15.480 you kind of understand the limitations and work within those guidelines, 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.320 it can be a very handy tool for any number 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:23.560 of different things and an enormous time saver. But but yeah, 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:25.760 here's the thing I think a lot of people don't understand. 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:27.720 You know, the guy who spent a long time as 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.400 a software engineer. Most of the time the kind of 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.400 software I was writing was for business use, and it 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.560 was deterministic. You know, if you gave it a formula 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:40.080 and certain inputs, it would produce the same outputs every time. Right, 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:44.000 it had to be correct. These large language models are 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.719 using a probabilistic model. You can ask you the question 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.080 twenty times and you might get twenty different answers, and 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.640 some of them will be just completely made up. Right, 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.880 That idea of hallucinations. So depending on you know, if 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:58.680 you need a deterministic answer, that is not necessarily a 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:00.760 good way to go about it. And if you don't 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:04.360 understand hallucinations, again, you could be setting yourself. There's been 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.560 all kinds of stories about people trying to use AI, 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:10.720 you know, based large language model g in AI type 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.720 things like rock or chat or chat GPT or Gemini 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.800 to like plan a vacation and it, you know, plots 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.160 places on their itinerary that just don't exist. So again, 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.440 when you understand those kinds of things and you understand 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:27.200 it is not deterministic, it can be really valuable. 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:30.080 You know, Dave, There used to be a saying back 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:33.400 in the the relatively early days of computing called geigo 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:35.240 garbage in garbage out right. 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:36.840 Uh? 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.880 I think I think that same basic principle still applies. 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.360 And I caught this story the other day when I 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:44.640 was getting ready for one of my weekend shows, and 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:48.680 it turns out Merriam Webster Dictionary has chosen their year, 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:52.600 their word of the year, and that word is do 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:53.400 you know it, Dave. 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:54.320 Flop slop? 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:55.920 I do know it? Ye slop? 0:07:56.160 --> 0:08:00.200 Or yeah, AI generated junk? Tell me about that? Tell 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.800 me about slop. I think that's a cool term because 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:05.960 I mean, that's still sad. That sounds to me like 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.200 the same principle of garbage in garbage out them all. 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:12.600 Right, well more or less, yes, and I think that's true. 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.640 You know, when these large language models get trained. Again, 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.440 you know, I'm not a mathematician and I don't build 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.720 this stuff, so I can't tell you exactly what's happening 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.120 inside it. And that's one of the problems. I'm not 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.640 sure anyone can. But you know, it's using a probabilistic 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.840 model to figure out okay, you use this word, this 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:32.000 is the word that's most likely to go with that, 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.560 and it's all based on probability. That's why, again you 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:37.800 can ask the same question and get a different answer 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:41.520 each time. And that's why you know, until recently, it's 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:44.400 been really poor at math of doing things like give 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:48.160 me an image of an analog clock that's showing a 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:51.480 certain time, and it can't do it right. But the 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:55.000 bottom line is, yeah, Dan, if the input you're using 0:08:55.080 --> 0:09:00.920 to train these models is biased, if it's incorrect, that's problematic. 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.960 And again I'm not an expert on the inner works 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:05.920 of this stuff, but there are a lot of people 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:10.040 who have been well known people in this space who 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.120 have now started to come off some of the more 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.440 hyperbolic predictions that all of our jobs are going to 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:17.800 be replaced, and you know, we're going to have AI 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.400 wipe us out and all this sort of stuff, at 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:24.440 least on this particular path. There are different types of AI, 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.199 and there are people doing different things, but there are 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.040 some folks who are speculating that's the large language model 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.920 that powers things like Gemini at Rock and catch GPP. 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:37.160 If it hasn't peaked already, may have peaked. And one 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.440 of the problems gets back to what you just said, Dan, 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:43.720 which is this idea of garbage in garbage out. If 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:46.480 I have an AI model and it generates the output, 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:48.720 and I eed that into another AI model, and it 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.439 generates the output which goes back into the original model 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:55.000 you originally. You eventually just hit this. It's all just 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:58.240 made up stuff. It's slamp. It's just garbage being thrown 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.800 out by these things. And as you get more non 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:05.600 human generated original content, the slop causes entropy. And there's 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:08.160 an actual term in the business called model collapse. And 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:11.000 I'm not saying we're there and this might never happen, 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.040 But there are people predicting that, you know, based on 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:17.080 these tools the way they work now, with the kind 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.559 of limitations they have, they they may not be able 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:22.840 to progress much beyond where we are now. And there 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.080 have been several very well known people say the idea 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.560 of getting to artificial general intelligence, this sort of you know, 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.200 it's better than human beings and everything and eventually wipe 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:36.400 us out. It will never happen using this particular technique. 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:38.439 Now again, you know, I only know what I read 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.080 and what I see, and I've seen evidence of the 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:43.679 slop and the Internet is now full of all these 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.880 ridiculous videos and means being generated by AI, which is 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.040 then get sucked back into the AI. So I think 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.199 there's something to that idea of entropy. And I do 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:55.600 love the term flop because so much of what you 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.960 see from this stuff really is just garbage. 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:00.560 Changes. 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.400 But that's want to go back and say, when you 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.200 understand all of the things we're talking about here, and 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.080 you know how to work with the tools the right 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:10.960 way where things are good at they can be unbelievably handy. 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:14.760 Dave, We've got a couple more minutes, Dave, had or 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.400 our tech guy here on the Eddie and Rocky Show 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:23.560 speaking of sloping garbage. It is prime Christmas fishing season 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:29.439 with a pH any particular scams going on out there 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:32.720 right Nowadave that people really need to be on alert for. 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.080 Well, I'm glad to ask about that, Jason, because the 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.760 FBI has just recently, the FBI had a great website, 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.480 the Internet Crime Complaints that are IC three dot gov 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.440 and then just the standard FBI website. They've put out 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:49.720 a lot of warnings and PSAs lately on social media 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:51.880 and so forth about scams and broad and the sort 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:53.920 of things to see this year. You know, those are 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:56.720 always talk full of useful tips because it's not just speculation, 0:11:56.840 --> 0:12:00.200 it's it's stuff that being reported to them. You know, 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:04.520 the standard scams this time of year typically revolve around Okay, 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:06.400 this deals too good to be true. I have to 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.800 act on this now or your package is delayed. And remember, folks, 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.920 fishing comes in all kinds of forums. Now, it's not 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:16.880 just email, it's text messages, it's voice calls. Voice calls 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:18.839 that might be using some kind of AI tool to 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:23.440 close somebody's voice. So you know, back before Amazon Prime Day, 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.120 I saw a study that over two hundred thousand in 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:28.560 a four month period of time, over two hundred thousand 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:33.160 fraudulent websites were set up to scam people around Prime Day. 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.120 So you can bet there's at least a similar amount 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.079 that have been created to try to scam people between 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.720 Black Friday, Cyber Monday, and holiday shopping at General. So, 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:47.080 you know, be skeptical, take a brass. If it seems 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.080 too good to be true, it probably is. Don't click 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.640 the links, don't call the numbers. You know, if you've 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.000 got an email that has a deal it's too good 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:56.920 to be true from Walmart, then you go to the 0:12:56.960 --> 0:13:00.280 Walmart website or the Amazon website or whatever. Hey, go 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.360 read those tips from the FBI. You know, a lot 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.520 of times if you just see a credible source putting 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.080 out information like Daddy, you read it. Could you just 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.320 put enough awareness to help avoid some of the scams 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.440 that are always rampant this tiny year. 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:18.400 Dave always great stuff. Always appreciate uh. Whether I'm I'm 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.600 on with Eddie and Rocky or with Dan Carroll or 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.640 I'm I'm a listener. I always always am informed by 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.600 what you know, by what you what you talk about 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:30.280 You're the best, buddy, You're the best. 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:30.800 All right. 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.480 You were, Dave. You were as Eddie as Eddie. As 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:35.920 Eddie says in our prep show preps when we have 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.440 you on, he always says, Hatter on Hatter stuff. You 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.280 were Dave Hatter on Dave Hatter stuff today spot on 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:43.840 Mary Christmas, my friend. 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.360 Thanks you guys to see you see, Thank you. Dave. 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:51.520 News Radio seven hundred w l W Jason Williams, Dan 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:54.600 Carroll in for Eddie and Rocky and we got a 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.600 hot off the presses here as you heard on our 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:02.600 our news break there. UH prosecutor Hamilton County Prosecutor Connie 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:06.040 Pillag has put out a statement setting the record straight. 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:11.880 UH And now Hamilton County Corner UH locks me san 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:17.800 Marco has retracted what she said yesterday regarding the Elwood 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.320 Jones case. It' it's it's kind of complex, but let's 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:23.920 go right to the source here. We've got a Hamilton 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:28.320 County Prosecutor, Connie Pillach on the phone who to talk 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:33.200 about setting the record straight on basically yesterday locks me 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:37.480 San Marco, the coroner saying that she had uncovered new 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:43.160 new evidence in uh the uh the Elwood Jones case 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:47.320 regarding the lady who was murdered wrote to Nathan, now, 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.920 Connie Pilach saying, hey, no, that's not true. Now. Also, 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.320 just within the last handful of minutes here, doctor Lockxamee 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:58.200 San Marco has said she has retracted that as well. Yeah, 0:14:58.240 --> 0:14:59.480 she writes that today. 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:03.280 I'm in reciping of a document titled Microbiology Reference Laboratory 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.720 Test Report provided by Attorney David Hine. In that document, 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:10.320 there are reference numbers the correspond to our autopsy and 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.960 death records. In the body of the report, there's a 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.320 reference to a cadaver specimen. The printed result state the 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:21.560 blood specimen was hepatitis B surface amage and positive. Considering 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:23.800 the correlation of the numbers on the report with our records, 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:27.840 it appears that this is the actual Hepatitis B test 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:32.280 report result for Rhoda, Nathan. And with that, let's go there. 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.160 There's a lot there, Dan, but let's let's yeah, let's 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:40.560 let's get to Hamilton County Prosecutor Connie Pilach, Uh, Prosecutor 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:42.760 pillag thank you for joining us here. And I know 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.400 this is kind of crazy, and uh, there's a lot 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:51.560 lot here, but uh yeah, I mean Connie, you your 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.000 your your press release, I think related out for you. 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.800 Uh you know you're here to set the record straight 0:15:56.840 --> 0:16:00.560 on this and it sounds like, uh now that lotchiby 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.600 San Marco. The Corner is on the same page with 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.720 with your office as well, and more importantly, on the 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.600 same page with what's the truth of the evidence that 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:12.400 was undiscovered was discovered in this case? Correct? 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.200 Yeah, that's right, and thanks so much for having having 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:16.600 me on. 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:19.160 To thank jumping on so quickly, Thank you. 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:22.440 I'm happy to do so. 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:22.520 So. 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:27.120 Yeah, the Corner did not uncover any new information about 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:31.800 the victim's medical history. What she had done was review 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:38.120 a laboratory report that actually was reporting on the blood 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:43.440 of Elwood Jones, and she made mistakenly attributed mister jones 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:48.360 negative appetitus B result to the victim. So this was 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.680 just a mistake and it was just a misreading of 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:56.480 the test. I did speak with the corner just just 0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:00.720 when I sent this press release out clear things up, 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.880 and she understood that this was a mistake and told 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:09.240 me she was going to retract her comments. But look, 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:16.920 it's very clear. It's very clear that every part of 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:21.000 the file that we received from the coroner said that 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.919 on September eighth, nineteen ninety four, testing done through the 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.160 coroner's office showed that Roda Nathan. 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:28.399 Had hepatitis B. 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:33.440 And this test was even stipulated to by both sides 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:34.879 in the federal case, and. 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:38.879 Elwood Jones evidence said that he did not have hepatitis B. 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:44.760 Correct, that's right. And we also learned that his test 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:50.160 was taken on September sixteenth, nineteen ninety four, so about 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:55.480 a week after the murder, and then late twenty years 0:17:55.560 --> 0:18:00.199 later he was tested again by a defense expert. The 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:04.679 test done and he was found to never have contracted 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.880 and still has not contracted hepatitis B. This is one 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:13.600 of those antigens that stays in your bloodstream forever, so 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:16.040 we would have been able to find out. 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.639 China, billis this is this is Dan Carroll and uh, 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:20.879 thank you so much for the for the for the 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:24.800 for the time today. So the the the guilt or 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:29.119 innocence of Elwood Jones. Are you suggesting that that guilt 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:32.960 or innocence rides on whether or not he has hepatitis 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:38.760 B and contact contracted it through there did not contact 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.359 it through contact with the with the victim in this. 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:47.120 Case, No, because there was a lot of other evidence 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:53.679 that was disclosed long after his conviction that produced a 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:54.560 lot of doubt. 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:57.720 Well evidence, Okay, what what evidence are you talking about? 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:02.800 Oh, well, we had numerous witnesses that were interviewed by 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:06.840 the police that pointed to a different individual or a 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:13.359 couple of different individuals, and these were these were noted 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:17.840 in some investigators notes, and that stuff was never disclosed 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.760 to the defense until years after. 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:23.560 Well, Mark Mark Pete Meyer, who tried the case, was 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:27.360 suggested that all these avenues were explored during not only 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:30.200 during the case, but during up and down the appellate process. 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.680 So let me ask you this, Uh, there there were 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.679 a lot of a lot of evidence in this case 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:41.640 that that connects Elwood Jones to the murder. You've got 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:48.240 test results, and we had the cut on on Elwood's 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:53.200 hand that that the Joe Dieters and Mark Pete Myer 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:58.320 suggests came from connecting with the teeth of Rhoda and 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:02.240 this unique gumback here. How did that get onto Elwood's hand? 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:06.000 What about the diamond brooch that wound up in his toolbox? 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:07.480 What about evidence like that? 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.440 Well, let me respond to some of this because I 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:16.200 spent months pouring through the case file, looking at transcripts, 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:25.400 looking at DNA test results, looking at investigator's notes, all 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:29.440 these things. And I understand, I really really like Mark 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.320 Pete Meyer, and he was very good to me in 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.480 the transition, and I understand that he's proud of his work. 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:37.920 But what I can tell you right now, from all 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:42.320 of the evidence I see that Mark didn't have as 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:44.280 far as I can tell, didn't have any access to, 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:49.600 I'm not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that Elwood Jones 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:52.960 committed this murder, and therefore it's unethical for me to 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:53.399 try it. 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:55.399 Well, we're not. 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:56.680 But we're not going to I'm not. 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:59.520 Going to relitigate the case. I put out a statement. 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:01.840 I did a but but isn't that isn't that where 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:04.040 we are now? Isn't that? 0:21:04.080 --> 0:21:07.119 Where aren't we relitigating this entire case now? Because of 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.760 all this back and forth that that has gone on. Yeah, 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.560 I mean, look, I mean, look, Elwoo Jones is are 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:16.720 He's a freeman. He's a free man. He's free to 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.240 go because the judge ordered said he deserves a new trial. 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:22.240 You looked at the evidence that I'm not going to 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.080 bring it and that that that's your prerogative. But what 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:29.280 Joe Deeters was especially upset about that you suggested that 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:33.080 there was in his office there was some attempt to 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:38.320 withhold information. There was some attempt made to maybe not 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:41.080 do this case one hundred percent by the books. How 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:43.640 do you respond to the comments of Joe Dieters, who 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:46.520 was on this station a week ago, came on here 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:50.920 with Bill Cunningham for an entire entire segment to defend 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:53.520 him himself in the integrity of his office. 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.960 Well, what we do know, and what is a stand 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:04.000 list fact, is that the state, which could have been 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:07.520 the police or the prosecutor's office, I don't know which 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:09.919 because I wasn't in this office at the time, but 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.160