Speaker 1: And now an exclusive interview with David Basse for Dodger Talker.
Speaker 2: David Vasse Dodger Talk with you until eight o'clock tonight
Speaker 2: here on a five to seventy LA Sports. In case
Speaker 2: you missed any of our show from this past Saturday
Speaker 2: at Dodger Fest, you can find that on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 2: And our next show will be on Thursday night at
Speaker 2: seven o'clock and we'll share some of those interviews with
Speaker 2: you that we couldn't share on Saturday, including Max Munsey
Speaker 2: and Miguel Rojas, So you don't want to miss that
Speaker 2: show at seven o'clock with Max Munsey and Miguel Rojas.
Speaker 2: But like I mentioned in our last segment, there are
Speaker 2: going to be more changes to rules in Major League
Speaker 2: Baseball to basically generate more offense. And we saw it
Speaker 2: in spring training last year, the ABS system where the
Speaker 2: hit or the catcher can challenge a ball or strike
Speaker 2: and you only have two per game, And talking to
Speaker 2: some guys that experienced this in the minor leagues, they
Speaker 2: believe it's going to force pitchers to come more into
Speaker 2: the strike zone. So we'll see how it plays out.
Speaker 2: But we are joined right now by one of Major
Speaker 2: League Baseball's observers. He certainly has observed a lot of
Speaker 2: baseball because he was an umpire in Major League Baseball
Speaker 2: for thirty seasons, three thousand, four hundred and thirty games.
Speaker 2: Umpired to be exact, and that is the one and
Speaker 2: only Brian Gorman. Brian, thanks a lot for the time,
Speaker 2: appreciate it.
Speaker 1: That's great to be on.
Speaker 2: So as we get closer to spring training, pitchers and
Speaker 2: catchers are reporting the day before Valentine's Day, I felt
Speaker 2: like this was a good night to remind fans that
Speaker 2: there are going to be more new nuances to the
Speaker 2: game of baseball. How do you feel about this ABS
Speaker 2: system from an umpire standpoint?
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is going to be big this season.
Speaker 1: The biggest thing that I see about the ABS system
Speaker 1: is the number of challenges each team have two challenges
Speaker 1: per team for nine innings is really not that many,
Speaker 1: so you really have to be careful when you use them.
Speaker 1: So the strategy is really don't be so selfish in
Speaker 1: using one when you got nobody on and two outs
Speaker 1: and then you think a pitch is missed and you
Speaker 1: challenge it, and then you're wrong and you lose that
Speaker 1: challenge where you have a guy on second and third
Speaker 1: and one out, you might want to be you use
Speaker 1: that challenge. You don't want to lose it. So now
Speaker 1: the pitcher, catcher, and batter have to do it immediately.
Speaker 1: There's no delay and there's no signals from the dugout
Speaker 1: or anything like that. So the batter, pitcher and catcher
Speaker 1: have to challenge it immediately right after the pitch is called.
Speaker 1: So that's that has even more strategy because you have
Speaker 1: to be careful when not to lose a challenge. So
Speaker 1: the situation is important, and you don't want to run
Speaker 1: out of challenges when it comes that you need one
Speaker 1: in the in the ninth inning, when you get some
Speaker 1: you're down a couple of runs and you have some
Speaker 1: guys on base.
Speaker 2: So just to be clear, you have two challenges for
Speaker 2: all nine innings. No challenges are going to be added
Speaker 2: in the ninth inning. What if extra innings occur.
Speaker 1: I think they have decided to maybe add a challenge.
Speaker 1: If you still have your two challenges left, there's no
Speaker 1: change in it. But if you're out of challenges, you're
Speaker 1: thinking about adding a challenge. You if you still have
Speaker 1: you if you have one challenge left and it's the
Speaker 1: top of the tenth inning, then you still have a
Speaker 1: challenge left. So the biggest thing is like, if you're
Speaker 1: right on a challenge and you get the call reversed,
Speaker 1: you keep that challenge. But there has to be a
Speaker 1: penalty or they would challenge every pitch for sure. So
Speaker 1: if you're wrong on the challenge and the and the
Speaker 1: umpire got it right, you're down to one challenge. So
Speaker 1: and so that's that's the strategy part of it.
Speaker 2: So we saw this in spring training last year. The
Speaker 2: spring training facilities that had you know, the video scoreboards,
Speaker 2: you would see where the pitch was and you would
Speaker 2: know pretty quickly. I know, you have to challenge quickly.
Speaker 2: How quickly is the process to keep the game moving,
Speaker 2: whether it's a ball or strike.
Speaker 1: That's the key. You have to do it immediately. So
Speaker 1: you have to be sure that the pitch was messed.
Speaker 1: If you just like, go, that was closed, I'm going
Speaker 1: to challenge it, you might lose that challenge and you'll see.
Speaker 1: You know, the umpires are so good that you know
Speaker 1: people all realize this. Ninety five to ninety seven percent
Speaker 1: of the pitch is called are correct. So when you
Speaker 1: use your challenge. You're challenging, you know, three percent of
Speaker 1: the calls of the pitches thrown that day, So you
Speaker 1: better be right if you want to if you want
Speaker 1: to save your challenges.
Speaker 2: That's the voice a veteran Major League baseball umpire Brian Gorman. Now, Brian,
Speaker 2: I've talked to players that have experienced the ABS system
Speaker 2: in the minor leagues, and the one thing they point
Speaker 2: out about this that may be a flaw is that
Speaker 2: David Vas say strike zone is different than let's say
Speaker 2: Brian Gorman strike zone. Does this automated strike zone take
Speaker 2: into account, you know, different batting stances like let's say
Speaker 2: Ricky Henderson or Pete Rose compared to Cody Bellinger.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the formula that they came up with is going
Speaker 1: to be based on the player's height, where a percentage
Speaker 1: of the lower percentage of the strike zone is based
Speaker 1: on the on the player's height, and the upper percentage
Speaker 1: of the strike zone is based on the player's height,
Speaker 1: so will change depending on the taller player as opposed
Speaker 1: to a shorter player. East and West doesn't change. It's
Speaker 1: still the seventeen inches, so the higher end of the
Speaker 1: strike zone and the lower end of the strike zone
Speaker 1: will be adjusted for each player.
Speaker 2: Now, when you say a player's height, I mean Pete
Speaker 2: Rose was whatever he was, Ricky Henderson was whatever he
Speaker 2: was standing tall, But once they got into the batter's
Speaker 2: box and had that exaggerated bend over batting stands, their
Speaker 2: height was significantly different. Are we talking about batting stands height?
Speaker 2: Are we talking what they're listed in your program?
Speaker 1: We're talking. We're talking about the player's height when discussing
Speaker 1: the strike zone as this, if he's swinging at the
Speaker 1: pitch like you know, if you're a player and you
Speaker 1: just stand straight up, that has nothing to do with
Speaker 1: your strike sound. Your strike zone is determined as you're
Speaker 1: trying to strike at the pitch, So it changes lower
Speaker 1: in the upper end than the lower end because your
Speaker 1: knees don't go any lower. But as you as you
Speaker 1: strike and swing to hit the pitch, that's what determines
Speaker 1: your upper and lower of the strike zone. So this
Speaker 1: formula they came up with is you know they're gonna
Speaker 1: they're gonna go with it, so I hope it works.
Speaker 1: We'll see in spring training.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like there might be some tweaks during
Speaker 2: the season, or is this the technology, the system depending
Speaker 2: on you know, if players start to complain about what
Speaker 2: they're actual strike zone.
Speaker 1: Is right, it's gonna it's gonna be an adjustment for
Speaker 1: everybody because they're gonna there's gonna be players saying, no,
Speaker 1: you know, my strike zun's too high or my strikes
Speaker 1: onus too low. But this is the formula can't came
Speaker 1: up with, and you know they have the ability to
Speaker 1: tweak it. But you know that's that's much higher than
Speaker 1: my pay grade when those decisions are made, no.
Speaker 2: Doubt, no doubt. Brian Gorman is our guest. He's one
Speaker 2: of Major League Baseball's observers. He's at Dodgers Stadium every game,
Speaker 2: watching the games, observing the umpires. And a guy that
Speaker 2: umpired three thy four hundred and thirty games. Now, Brian,
Speaker 2: I remember one spring training game that the Dodgers were
Speaker 2: playing and Austin Barnes, who is known to have a
Speaker 2: great awareness of the strike zone, challenge four consecutive pitches
Speaker 2: and got them correct all four. If that happens in
Speaker 2: a major league game, how much do does the homeplate
Speaker 2: umpires start to question himself? Is that one of the
Speaker 2: unintended consequences of technology that all of a sudden, a
Speaker 2: major league umpire may not have the confidence to call
Speaker 2: balls and strikes. Could an umpire go into a slump
Speaker 2: in that type of situation.
Speaker 1: Oh, without question, what I saw is I'm glad, I'm
Speaker 1: glad I'm retired when this happened. Yeah. It's like you
Speaker 1: get having, you know, first pitch of the game being
Speaker 1: challenged and you lose it. You know that would hurt you,
Speaker 1: that that searcher, you know, it gets in your head
Speaker 1: and says, oh my god, I got you know, two
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five more pitches to call. But yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll see. I think, I think, I hope that what
Speaker 1: I said earlier about the ninety five percent of the
Speaker 1: pitches are called correctly. But I'm sure, I'm sure we'll
Speaker 1: have a situation where where there's you know, six or
Speaker 1: seven challenges early in the game and then and they've
Speaker 1: all been overturned, and it might be a long it's
Speaker 1: going to be a long night for some umpires.
Speaker 2: So Brian, on the flip side, this might be validation
Speaker 2: for major league umpires to say, hey, this is proof
Speaker 2: we don't need a Twitter account to show our scorecard.
Speaker 2: That's out there publicly. This will be proof that we're
Speaker 2: pretty good at our job, right.
Speaker 1: I think that's happened in the minor leagues. There were
Speaker 1: a lot of these challenges. I think only about half
Speaker 1: of them were successful, so that means that the other
Speaker 1: half the umpire got it right. So you're gonna see
Speaker 1: even the pitches that are missed are probably missed within
Speaker 1: an inch of the play either either they just catch
Speaker 1: the corner or they're just slightly off the corner and
Speaker 1: that pitch was challenged. You're not going to see the
Speaker 1: pitch that's you know, forced five inches outside that you know,
Speaker 1: because they you know. I'm sure it happens once in
Speaker 1: a while, but not very often.
Speaker 2: So have you seen how this works in minor league games?
Speaker 1: Brian, Yeah, yeah, I went to I probably went to
Speaker 1: about two dozen minor league games last year, and it's
Speaker 1: pretty good. I thought it would slow the game down.
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem to slow game down. I think I've
Speaker 1: only the most I've seen challenge was probably like maybe
Speaker 1: five or six a game, so I don't know what
Speaker 1: the average is, but for a nine to any game,
Speaker 1: I don't think that's many. And about half of those
Speaker 1: who were successful, and then then the other half the
Speaker 1: umpire got a right, So it didn't really affect the
Speaker 1: game time or that, you know, the enthusiasm of the
Speaker 1: fans raiming, and it just kind of banded a little
Speaker 1: bit to the strategy. And and you know, obviously the
Speaker 1: fans wanted and you know what the fans. What the
Speaker 1: fans want, they usually get. So that's, uh, that's why
Speaker 1: we all go out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people in spring training last year enjoyed it, so
Speaker 2: it wasn't It didn't get bad feedback. Fans enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: And Dalton Rushing, who had the unique experience of being
Speaker 2: a catcher and a hitter in the minor leagues with
Speaker 2: all this going on, was a little torn. When I
Speaker 2: asked him about this last year. He said, as a catcher,
Speaker 2: I don't really love it because pitchers are forced to
Speaker 2: throw more in the strike zone. But as a hitter,
Speaker 2: I love it for that same reason. Did you see
Speaker 2: more offense? Did you see the pitchers have to fill
Speaker 2: up the strike zone more?
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna spur a little offense. You know,
Speaker 1: in the long run, that's what they want, you know,
Speaker 1: they want more stolen bases. They love. About two years ago,
Speaker 1: they did a survey with all the players, and you know,
Speaker 1: the triple was the number one thing, and I think
Speaker 1: stolen bases was number two. So that's why they made
Speaker 1: the base the bases bigger, and they limited you know,
Speaker 1: step offs for pitchers, so people want to see runs.
Speaker 1: So that's why most of these these rules changes are.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no doubt. Everybody loves the offense. Chicks dig
Speaker 2: the long ball, as they used to say when Mark
Speaker 2: McGuire was playing. Brian Gorman is our guest from the
Speaker 2: Canaje Valley. That's where he hangs out these days. But
Speaker 2: Brian Gorman's not only here to talk about the rules,
Speaker 2: He's here to talk about games at a umpire that
Speaker 2: involved Dodger history. Back in May of two thousand and two,
Speaker 2: Sean Green hit four home runs and had a major
Speaker 2: League record nineteen total bases. And our guy, Brian Gorman
Speaker 2: was behind the plate that day in Milwaukee. What do
Speaker 2: you remember about that day? As a home plate umpire
Speaker 2: and unbiased observer in that situation.
Speaker 1: He had a pretty good evening. It's kind of funny
Speaker 1: because to be part of history and you don't have
Speaker 1: to do anything every time he got to the plate.
Speaker 1: I don't even think I called the pitch on him.
Speaker 1: He swung him four of it went over the fence.
Speaker 1: So but yeah, he had a pretty good night.
Speaker 2: Are you aware as an umpire about a player having
Speaker 2: that type of game or are you focused pitch to pitch?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't. I didn't know he broke the record
Speaker 1: until probably a couple of days later. Obviously, you know
Speaker 1: he's having a pretty good night when he hit the
Speaker 1: second home run, then he hit the third home run,
Speaker 1: then he hits his fourth home run. But apparently it
Speaker 1: was something like nineteen nineteen total bases and he had
Speaker 1: a couple of guys on. I think he set the
Speaker 1: RBI record and all that stuff. So yeah, he he
Speaker 1: ate his weedies that boy.
Speaker 2: I'll ask you this question too. Milwaukee is known as
Speaker 2: a hitters ballpark, as Sean Green can attest to. If
Speaker 2: it's a hitters ballpark, does that mean it's easier to
Speaker 2: see the baseball and the strike zone if you're a
Speaker 2: home played umpire in a ballpark like that.
Speaker 1: Not really. I think most of most of the ballparks
Speaker 1: have a good we call it background where they have
Speaker 1: you know, the green or the dark dark blue background
Speaker 1: where dead center fields. You know, the hitters use it
Speaker 1: as well. And most of the time these ballparks are
Speaker 1: pretty uniform with the background. Sometimes on a day game
Speaker 1: like and Wrigularly, sometimes they take some of the tarps
Speaker 1: off and they put fans in there, and that might
Speaker 1: make it a little bit difficult to track a ball,
Speaker 1: track a pitch, but most of the ballparks have good backgrounds.
Speaker 2: All right, good to know. Hey, Brian Gorman, thank you
Speaker 2: so much for coming on. You always educate us, and
Speaker 2: this is something fans should be prepared for because it's
Speaker 2: going to be part of their game during the regular
Speaker 2: season that matters. So it's just a good heads up
Speaker 2: on what's to come as we get closer to spring training.
Speaker 2: So thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Interesting to see how this develops.
Speaker 2: No doubt. And maybe I'll see you up there in
Speaker 2: the Canejo Valley soon.
Speaker 1: I will be I will be out there. I'll be
Speaker 1: up in the press box. Have an ice cream?
Speaker 2: All right, sounds good, Brian, Thanks for the time.
Speaker 1: All right, thank you.
Speaker 2: There he goes major League Baseball veteran umpire Brian Gorman.
Speaker 2: He's what they call now a Major League Baseball observer. Basically,
Speaker 2: he's there to monitor the umpire, seeing how the flow
Speaker 2: of the game goes. He's not a supervisor, but a
Speaker 2: Major League Baseball observer, a man that umpired three thousand,
Speaker 2: four hundred and thirty games in his thirty years in
Speaker 2: Major League baseball. So thank you to Brian Gorman.