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Speaker 1: It's nice eyes with Dan Ray. I'm going easy Boston's

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Speaker 1: News Radio.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Dan Watkins. I had a chance

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Speaker 2: to chat with Dan earlier. Tonight. We will be talking

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Speaker 2: with Dan Shaughnessey the Boston Globe about I think that

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Speaker 2: a really classless act by the NFL Hall of Fame

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Speaker 2: Committee excluding Bill Belichick. I mean, come on, the guy

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Speaker 2: may not be missed a personality. But we'll talk with

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Speaker 2: Dan Shaughnessy about that at at ten oh five tonight.

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Speaker 2: This hour, we are going to talk with Massachusetts state

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Speaker 2: Senator William Driscoll. He represents what's called Norfolk, Plymouth and

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Speaker 2: Bristol District, which means he probably has part or maybe

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Speaker 2: all of Norfolk, Plymouth and Bristol counties. That's not the

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Speaker 2: way most people know who their state senators are. So

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Speaker 2: first of all, Senator Driscoll, welcome back to night's side.

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Speaker 2: Let's start off with the commune unities, the towns. We're

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Speaker 2: a city in town state, did you represent? Go right ahead?

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Speaker 1: Thanks Dan, thanks for having me back. It's great to

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Speaker 1: be with you again. Yeah. So I represent seven towns, Braintree, Milton, Randolph, Stoughton, Easton, Bridgewater,

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Speaker 1: and West Bridgewater.

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Speaker 2: And you represent the entirety of those towns.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, most of I got nine out of twelve precincts

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Speaker 1: in Braintree. I've got about half of Randolph that I

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Speaker 1: share with Senator Brady and the rest of the time

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Speaker 1: they have the full towns.

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Speaker 2: Great, okay, Well that for our listeners, they now know

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Speaker 2: that you're the state senator if they're listening. And before that,

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Speaker 2: you spent eight years in the House representing which communities?

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Speaker 1: So I live in Milton and represented most of the

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Speaker 1: town of Milton and most of the town of Randolph

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Speaker 1: for eight years as a Rep.

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Speaker 2: All right, So how did you get interested in this

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Speaker 2: whole question of the gateway cities? And now I guess

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Speaker 2: they're called gateway municipalities. We'll explain what they are. But

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Speaker 2: what peaked your interest in this?

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Speaker 1: So when I started as a state rep back in

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Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, Randolph one of those communities that I still

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Speaker 1: represent and represented. Then I sat down with them and

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Speaker 1: one of the things they brought up to me pretty

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Speaker 1: early on as a new legislator was we are right

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Speaker 1: on the cost. Randolph at the time, back in twenty

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Speaker 1: seventeen was right on the cost of qualifying to be

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Speaker 1: considered to be designated a gateway municipality. And so at

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Speaker 1: the time, I think we thought that we were going

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Speaker 1: to have to wait for the twenty twenty census. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's a US Federal Census Bureau does a census every

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Speaker 1: ten years that everyone's probably familiar with, and we thought

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Speaker 1: that that they were right on the edge of one

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Speaker 1: of the qualifiers is thirty five thousand people at least

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Speaker 1: inside the municipality, and they were just under that. They

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Speaker 1: were like thirty four or five essentially, and we thought

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Speaker 1: it was pretty reasonable that they would surpass thirty five

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Speaker 1: thousand at the next count And so we started looking

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Speaker 1: into what it would mean and what it would take

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Speaker 1: to be designated a gateway, and then also what what

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Speaker 1: might come along with that in terms of different funding

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Speaker 1: opportunities or the government opportunities.

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Speaker 2: Just to put it in perspective, we have three hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty one cities in towns in Massachusetts, big cities

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Speaker 2: like Boston and Worcester and Springfield, and then there were

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Speaker 2: some of the small towns you know down on the

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Speaker 2: down on the island, on Mart's Viney Dy, of some

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Speaker 2: small communities out in the Berkshires. So there's there's a broad,

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Speaker 2: broad spectrum. But if you had to characterize just informally

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Speaker 2: what a gateway municipality, I know there's there's some categories

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Speaker 2: of characteristics that they have to meet or exceed, but

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Speaker 2: these are these are good sized communities who need some

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Speaker 2: funding help, and they also tend to be communities that

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Speaker 2: are not the richest communities in Massachusetts. Just as an overview,

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Speaker 2: can we agree on that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And I can give even some further backstory, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I think there's two there's two ways to look

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Speaker 1: at this, and you're hitting it right on. There's the

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Speaker 1: mass General Law, which has three qualifiers in it, which

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Speaker 1: we'll get into in terms of what you have to

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Speaker 1: kind of hit to qualify legally. And then there's the

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Speaker 1: overall sentiment around being a gateway municipality. And it actually

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Speaker 1: comes out of a mass Ink White paper report from

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Speaker 1: back in two thousand and seven where they looked at

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Speaker 1: what can best be described as former mill towns. You know,

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Speaker 1: places that are outside of Boston in Massachusetts that were

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Speaker 1: once hubs for a lot of activity, different mills, factories,

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Speaker 1: and are still kind of you know, either still or

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Speaker 1: could once become again regional centers of activity and economic development.

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Speaker 1: And so that was the the initial concept was how

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Speaker 1: could the state look at investing in former male towns

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Speaker 1: to bring back population, bring back jobs, be a place

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Speaker 1: where people could start a family, start a job that's

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Speaker 1: outside of our major our major cities.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and the characteristics that actually qualifies one of these communities.

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Speaker 2: I guess there are three characteristics and why an't you

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Speaker 2: run them by us?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So Gayway municipality is a designation that's defined in

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Speaker 1: the Mass General Law. And the three qualifiers. You have

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Speaker 1: to have a population greater than thirty five thousand, but

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Speaker 1: less than two hundred and fifty thousand. The next qualification

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Speaker 1: is a median household in below the Commonwealth's average, and

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Speaker 1: the third is a rate of educational attainment of a

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Speaker 1: bachelor's degree or above that is below the Commonwealth's average.

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Speaker 1: So you have to hit as a town or a

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Speaker 1: city that's above thirty five thousand. You have to hit

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Speaker 1: all three. You can't hit two out of three. The

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Speaker 1: law has those three qualified.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So for example, the city in which I live

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Speaker 2: has about eighty thousand people, but it is it's one

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Speaker 2: of the more affluent communities in Massachusetts, so it qualifies

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Speaker 2: on population. But I'm sure that the median household income

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Speaker 2: in Newton, Massachusetts is not below the state average, so

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Speaker 2: therefore they would not be they would be disqualified as

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Speaker 2: being considered a gateway city.

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Speaker 1: I assume that's right. Yeah, they would not as defined

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Speaker 1: by the law, they would not.

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Speaker 2: Be in So give us a few I'm thinking of,

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Speaker 2: is what I'm thinking. I'm thinking cities like new Bedford,

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Speaker 2: fall River, Rockton, Lowell, maybe Lynne. Have I hit a

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Speaker 2: few of the gateway cities just there?

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Speaker 1: Or yeah? I believe all the above.

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Speaker 2: All of the above. What about Lawrence?

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Speaker 1: Lawrence is on my list.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, why don't you hit us with a few more

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Speaker 2: so people will know what cities. There were only twenty

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Speaker 2: six that had these three qualifications, in addition to the

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Speaker 2: ones that I just guessed at.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so Worcester, you know you mentioned wester earlier. Worcester's

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Speaker 1: on there because they're below the two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand populations.

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Speaker 2: Well, although, by the way, Worcester is the second largest

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Speaker 2: city not only in Massachusetts but in New England.

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Speaker 1: That's right. We also have Fitchburg, Yep, Holy Yoke, Chicka

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Speaker 1: Bee Chelsea and taunting Westfield Springfield another big one, but

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Speaker 1: below two and fifty thousand. And you know, generally, once

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Speaker 1: upon a time they had an industry there that you know,

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Speaker 1: really centered at everything around it, okay, but may not

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Speaker 1: be the same in today's economy.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So now we've defined what we're talking about. When

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Speaker 2: we get back, I want to talk about the problem

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Speaker 2: that you have identified and what can be done to

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Speaker 2: rectify it. And if people want to call in, I'm

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Speaker 2: in studio tonight, which for me, I haven't been in

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Speaker 2: studio for a couple of years. No, And I can

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Speaker 2: actually see rob and it's there are televisions surrounding me here.

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Speaker 2: So I'm a little energized, and I hope all of

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Speaker 2: you are as well. This is a serious issue, and

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Speaker 2: I and I think if you stick with us, you'll

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Speaker 2: learn a lot about Massachusetts and maybe some some reforms

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Speaker 2: that can be implemented which will benefit people who should

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Speaker 2: be qualifying in these in these particular communities. My guest

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Speaker 2: is Massachusetts State Senator William Bill Driscoll, who, as we've

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Speaker 2: mentioned before, represents several south Shore communities hometown of Milton.

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Speaker 2: Back on Nightside Here are the numbers if you have

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Speaker 2: a question or a comment six one, seven, two, five, four, ten,

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Speaker 2: thirty six, one seven, nine, three thirty. Back right after

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Speaker 2: this on Nightside, It's.

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Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: We are joined by Massachusetts State Senator Bill Driscoll William

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Speaker 2: Driscoll of Milton. Are you want some committees up there

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Speaker 2: that that first? I know that your experience as a

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Speaker 2: state representative with Randolph, which was so close to becoming

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Speaker 2: a gateway city, But are you the committees that you're

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Speaker 2: assigned to do they have a particular interest in in

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Speaker 2: this issue?

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Speaker 1: The uh? In some of them? Yeah, I mean I think, uh,

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Speaker 1: we touch a little bit of every I think certainly

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest changes of becoming a senator versus

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Speaker 1: the Rep is it's only forty senators as opposed to

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Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty reps. In some days, as one

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Speaker 1: of forty, it feels like I'm on every single committee

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Speaker 1: with all the hearings we have to go to. But

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Speaker 1: I think people you know might know me from back

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Speaker 1: in COVID nineteen peaks. I was the House chair of

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Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen Emergency Preparedness and Management Committee, and so

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Speaker 1: we ran the oversight hearings back when Governor Baker was

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Speaker 1: appearing before things, you know, when the vaccine website broke

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Speaker 1: and all that.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I remember it well. I remember I was not

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Speaker 2: a great role out, that's for sure. Okay, So so

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Speaker 2: you got involved in this, you got interested, and I

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Speaker 2: don't know how much staff you have, but how much

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Speaker 2: work you've done a lot of work on this issue.

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Speaker 2: And what's the motivation?

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Speaker 1: What is yeah? What is yeah? Yeah, it's great. I've

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Speaker 1: got a great staff. Matt Murphy on myself in particular,

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Speaker 1: has been doing a great job and encrunching the numbers

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Speaker 1: as we dig into this. And so part of the

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Speaker 1: motivation here is that we need greater accountability and a

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Speaker 1: revamp of the Gateway municipality statue. And the reason I

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Speaker 1: say that is because I mentioned the story of how

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Speaker 1: the origin story here is we looked into it for

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Speaker 1: Randolph starting back in twenty seventeen. And one of the

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Speaker 1: natural questions as a legislator to get pulled in a

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Speaker 1: lot of directions, So you have to make sure you

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Speaker 1: trying to spend your time wisely, what would it get us?

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Speaker 1: What would be available to a town that's a gateway

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Speaker 1: or a city that's a gateway. And so it's the

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Speaker 1: answer is that there's different grants and tax credits that

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Speaker 1: are either given a gateway city is given preferential treatment

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Speaker 1: and that application or exclusive access to funding for early

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Speaker 1: education in pre K. There's some grants for planting trees

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Speaker 1: or enhancing park space other projects as well. And so

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Speaker 1: as you started to look into this, the list right

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Speaker 1: now is twenty six gateway communities officially if you go

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Speaker 1: on a state website or you go on mass incs

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Speaker 1: website that group that did the white paper that were

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Speaker 1: just kind of originated out of the problem is the

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Speaker 1: list is inaccurate. So those three qualifies, the population, the

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Speaker 1: median income, and the state average on education have changed,

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Speaker 1: as you can imagine over the last fifteen years or more,

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Speaker 1: as different census data comes out. And we've kind of

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Speaker 1: scratched our heads back in twenty one after the twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty census data was released, why didn't the gateway list change?

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Speaker 1: And I can tell you definitively right now there are

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Speaker 1: twenty six communities that officially meet the statute. But the

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Speaker 1: three that are wrong, this three that should be on

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Speaker 1: there and I not and this three that are on

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Speaker 1: there right now, and they shouldn't be there any longer.

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Speaker 2: But they and those numbers, the three that should be

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Speaker 2: on and the three that should be off. It isn't

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Speaker 2: as if the number is locked at twenty six. It's

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Speaker 2: not a competition. It is whether or not you qualify.

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Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, how much money in hole

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Speaker 2: in Toto is available to gateway cities? How big is

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Speaker 2: the pie that the twenty six gateway cities would have

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Speaker 2: access to?

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Speaker 3: Is there anyway?

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Speaker 1: So this is a This is a great question and

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Speaker 1: one of the things that women continue to dig into

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Speaker 1: it because there is not a single source we can

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Speaker 1: go and say and actually identify that. But I can

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Speaker 1: tell you that, for example, the mass Works program is

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Speaker 1: hundreds of million dollars a year, and depend upon the year,

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Speaker 1: half of that allocation they either set a goal or

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Speaker 1: they're mandated to spend half of it in gateway municipalities.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking like three hundred million dollars. Just in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty four a loan was targeted at projects in

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Speaker 1: gateway municipalities. We're still digging into mass works, but I

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Speaker 1: can say that so far, looking at the grant programs

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Speaker 1: and the various tax credits. So there's tax threats that

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Speaker 1: are available to employers that either are creating jobs or

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Speaker 1: maintaining jobs in gateway municipalities. Across all those, we've identified

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Speaker 1: twenty five million dollars that has been likely sent to

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Speaker 1: communities that no longer qualify as a gateway.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so let me ask you this. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if you want to mention the names of the three

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Speaker 2: communities who have received money in your you know, as

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Speaker 2: a consequence of your study. Is the solution a quaback

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Speaker 2: for that much?

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think, and I think I would I

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Speaker 1: would start by saying too, So at this point, I

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Speaker 1: don't think we should clawback the money. There's the three.

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Speaker 1: There's three that should be listed and aren't. And I

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Speaker 1: think one of the things I want to make sure

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Speaker 1: that we highlight here is is that that's really unfortunate

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Speaker 1: because for at least a couple of years, if not longer,

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Speaker 1: these are communities that haven't had the opportunity to apply

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Speaker 1: for these grants or task creds, and they really should

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Speaker 1: have been given it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so let's identify them, if you would be so kind.

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Speaker 1: So we have and this is going to be interesting

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Speaker 1: too for people listening. So Weymouth and Marlborough have qualified

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Speaker 1: for a number of years each but have never been

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Speaker 1: added to the officially designated list. The third one actually highlights,

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Speaker 1: I think a problem within the qualifying formula. It's Amherst.

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Speaker 1: It qualifies because of the school or college there, you Mass, right,

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Speaker 1: So it throws off the educational attainment number by a

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Speaker 1: mile because again I think most people would probably agree,

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Speaker 1: but I'll just make the assumption that if you're between

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Speaker 1: eighteen and twenty four, you do not have a bachelor's

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Speaker 1: degree yet, and that Mass Amherst. There's quite a few

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Speaker 1: of those people that fit that demographic and educational attainment

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Speaker 1: can Okay.

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Speaker 2: My question, my question cenatorve, is this, why are we

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Speaker 2: why would we be considering students at U MASS in

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Speaker 2: that category of population. It seems to me that if

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Speaker 2: the student is attending U MASS and is coming from

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Speaker 2: New York or Connecticut, they're not Massachusetts residents, that their

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Speaker 2: presence there should not be counted. And if there's someone

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Speaker 2: who lives in Boston or Newton or Worcester, it shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be counted either. The only students in Amherst at U

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Speaker 2: MASS either at Amherst College or you ask Amherst, which

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Speaker 2: of course is a much bigger facility, would be people

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Speaker 2: who actually lived in Amherst. Isn't that a question? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I think that you've got to struggle with a

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Speaker 2: little bit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it because I think it highlights the

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Speaker 1: greater issue, which is we need to revamp the formula.

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Speaker 1: They're not on the list and they probably shouldn't be,

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Speaker 1: whereas Marlboro and Weymouth fits some characteristics of that needing

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Speaker 1: economic development support. And in some of the communities that

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Speaker 1: have fallen off, we've got Malden. It's actually four now

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Speaker 1: that I look at it, So it's Malden, Mithu and

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Speaker 1: Quinsy and Salem are on the list technically today if

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Speaker 1: you go and search for it, you know it's on

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Speaker 1: the mass doc of site. It's on the mass inc site.

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Speaker 1: And so it's something that I filed part part of

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Speaker 1: the way I think has happened.

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Speaker 3: Here.

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Speaker 1: You can tell me how we are in time as

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Speaker 1: we go.

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Speaker 2: I'm getting close to nine thirty years, So let's posit

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Speaker 2: in this and we'll come back and expand on this.

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Speaker 2: And also i'd like to hear from listeners. It seems

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Speaker 2: to me, I'm agreeing with you totally, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's to make it even more interesting that a town

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Speaker 2: like Amherst, which is really an affluent town, when you

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Speaker 2: consider the people who live there full time, and you

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Speaker 2: eliminate the students who don't live there, they're only partially

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Speaker 2: during the year. They don't live there. Even when you're

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Speaker 2: a U massa Amherst student, you're not living there twelve

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Speaker 2: months a year. You're not living there nine or ten

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Speaker 2: months a year. And I think that communities like Malden

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Speaker 2: and Methuen, and I don't know what their problem is,

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Speaker 2: but those are communities that can still need some help,

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Speaker 2: Quinsy and Salem less so, but I'd rather see Quinsy, Salem,

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Speaker 2: Methuin and Maldan getting some help than Amherst. Now, I

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Speaker 2: know that's a subjective judgment, so I want to talk

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Speaker 2: about that, and I hope that some callers will join

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Speaker 2: this conversation because there are tax dollars that are at

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Speaker 2: stake here. Let me give you a break for a

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Speaker 2: couple of minutes. We got to do a newscast. This

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Speaker 2: is this is becoming more interesting to me as we

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Speaker 2: talk about it, and I can understand how you could

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Speaker 2: really find yourself entrapped in this because it's real money

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Speaker 2: and it's people's lives that are impacted. Six one seven,

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Speaker 2: four thirty six one seven nine three, one ten thirty. Jeff,

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Speaker 2: it's called join the conversation back on Nightside with Massachusetts

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Speaker 2: State Senator William Driscoll. Bill Driscoll, You're.

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Speaker 1: On night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about Massachusetts Gateway communities or Massachusetts Gateway municipalities.

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Speaker 2: Right now, there are twenty six gateway municipalities or gateway

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Speaker 2: cities in Massachusetts. There are three characteristics which qualifies a

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Speaker 2: city for additional financial support. Your population has to be

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Speaker 2: between thirty five thousand and two hundred and fifty thousand,

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Speaker 2: so Boston would not be considered, but virtually any major

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Speaker 2: city in Massachusetts would be, including Worcester and Springfield. The

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Speaker 2: median household income of your people in your community must

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Speaker 2: be below the state average, and the rate of bachelor

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Speaker 2: degrees or above has to be below a certain percentage.

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Speaker 2: We have, however, three communities that it should well, there

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Speaker 2: are two communities that should be added, I think Weymouth

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Speaker 2: and Marlborough they are both middle sized cities. Iam Heerst,

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Speaker 2: because of a kind of a quirky judgment, is currently

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Speaker 2: on the list. But there are four cities that I

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Speaker 2: think would qualify. And Senator to Driscoll, I don't know

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Speaker 2: if he thinks they should qualify, but under the specifics

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Speaker 2: of the law, they would qualify. And Senator you said

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Speaker 2: they will mauld and Methu and Quincy and Salem. Correct.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So those four are currently on the list today

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Speaker 1: if you look it up as being designated a gateway municipality,

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Speaker 1: but at various points along the way here since twenty ten,

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Speaker 1: they have fallen off. They were once on and fell off,

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Speaker 1: or in the case of a place like Maldon and

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Speaker 1: massouin the US CENTSUS Bureau puts out a couple of

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Speaker 1: different data products, and one of them is annually and

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Speaker 1: Maul and Mathou and kind of toggle in one year

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Speaker 1: and then follow out the next year, and toggle in

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Speaker 1: one year and follow the next year and again. That

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Speaker 1: tells me, you know, the greater conversation here is that

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Speaker 1: we need to revisit the law and what qualifies people,

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Speaker 1: because I'm certainly not advocating that if you fall out

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Speaker 1: one year, you're done. Yeah, and I think that we Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think the local officials, you know, they need the

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Speaker 1: ability to budget and plan. And so I don't know

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Speaker 1: exactly what the right threshold is, but it's probably not

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Speaker 1: one year and one year out. Could be three years

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Speaker 1: of five years, you know, looking at the data that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: But okay, so so yes, just so that that I

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Speaker 2: haven't confused my audience. Okay, of the twenty six now

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Speaker 2: that are on the list, is Maldon Withthuin, Quinsy and

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Speaker 2: Salem on the list? Or are they not on the list?

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Speaker 1: They are on the list.

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Speaker 2: They're on the list.

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Speaker 1: They're on the list that they technically okay, technically not all.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I think what they should do is make it.

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Speaker 2: Since since the census is every ten years, the National Census,

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Speaker 2: I think that you know, there should be a five

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Speaker 2: year check maybe halfway through, you know, and if if

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Speaker 2: they're falling off five years, fine, and then you want

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Speaker 2: to you would like to see at least two cities.

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Speaker 2: He's added communities added Weymouth and Marlborough, but technically Amherst

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Speaker 2: would qualify under the color and circumstances, which to me

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Speaker 2: seems crazy. Why would it not be possible, Senator to

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Speaker 2: amend the law and just say that, you know that

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Speaker 2: obviously Amherst with Amherst College and UH and U mass Amherst,

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Speaker 2: those are big student populations. Can't they say that student

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Speaker 2: populations should not, you know, be considered that if the

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Speaker 2: student lives in you know, Lawrence, is going to U

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Speaker 2: mass Amherst, that he or she should be counted as

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Speaker 2: a resident of Lawrence, which probably needs some additional financial

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Speaker 2: support from the state a heck of a lot more

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Speaker 2: than Amherst does.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, and if you allow me too, would

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Speaker 1: like to back up a little bit because I think

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Speaker 1: no matter where we land and terms of the next

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Speaker 1: version and iteration of the qualifiers and the law, we

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Speaker 1: have to make sure that somebody is paying attention to

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Speaker 1: the list every year, and that has not been happening.

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Speaker 1: So the last time that we've found that the list

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Speaker 1: changed that twenty six communities designated change was twenty thirteen

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Speaker 1: during the Patrick Devell Patrick administration. Governor Patrick Attelborrow and

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Speaker 1: Peabody were added to the list. So it when from

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Speaker 1: twenty four to twenty six and it has not changed since,

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Speaker 1: and I don't have to tell you what the list

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Speaker 1: has that demographics have changed since. And so the Economic

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Speaker 1: Development secretaries, you know, seems very active between twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: ten when this all began in law in twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: but have not been monitoring it since. And the other

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Speaker 1: entity that I want to make sure that we mentioned

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Speaker 1: is again mas Sink, who wrote the first white Paper

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Speaker 1: report to name those old mill towns that needed more

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Speaker 1: economic development. So their list started I think around seven,

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Speaker 1: and by the time my colleagues, my predecessors, and the

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Speaker 1: legislature put this into law, you know, we were at

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Speaker 1: twenty four by defining it for those three qualifiers. Massing

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Speaker 1: convenes conferences of gateway cities and gateway leaders. They produce

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Speaker 1: news products and different things. In fact, they own and

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Speaker 1: manage Conwell Peacon which ran a story back on January ninth.

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Speaker 1: I'll reach you the headline Beacon Hill hasn't kept track

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Speaker 1: of which communities qualify for Gateway city status. So I

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Speaker 1: agree and disagree with this. I take issue as a

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Speaker 1: legislator because I am paying attention, but I would I

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Speaker 1: would add the I think Massink has made itself the

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Speaker 1: indisputable authority on gateways, and they shouldn't they should include

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Speaker 1: themselves in this headline. It really wasn't until that January

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Speaker 1: ninth story that it appeared they understood that the list

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Speaker 1: was inaccurate. That's been republished over and over again again.

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Speaker 2: Some people might say, well, this is you know, you're

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Speaker 2: you're counting the number of angels that can fit in

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Speaker 2: the head of a pin. That's not so. There's real

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Speaker 2: money at stake here, real programs and real benefits, and

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Speaker 2: benefits should go to the communities that need the benefits.

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Speaker 2: Let us do this center. Let's get the phone calls

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Speaker 2: going here and Rob I'm gonna I'll bring this this

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Speaker 2: one up. Let me go to Peter, just like the

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Speaker 2: old time.

436
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: Rob.

437
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 2: Here we go going to get Peter in Gloucester calling Hi, Peter,

438
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 2: welcome you are first this hour and night side. How

439
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 2: are you, sir?

440
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 3: Good? Thanks for taking my call.

441
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, before I just need to get is I need

442
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 2: to find out from my guest is Gloucester a gateway city?

443
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: Senator Gloucester is not on my list? Okay, and doesn't

444
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 1: appear like it would qualify at this point either.

445
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 2: All right, Peter, if you're there, let's have you common

446
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 2: a question. Yeah, you go right ahead.

447
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just getting out of my zoning board meeting,

448
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 3: and you know, we're always looking for housing and affordable

449
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 3: housing and how do we you know, get funding. But

450
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 3: revisiting those laws, Senator, makes a lot of sense because

451
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 3: we just fall short. I mean, our population has been declining.

452
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 3: We're roughly around thirty thousand and being in an ocean

453
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 3: front municipality, we have a lot of restrictions with the DPA,

454
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 3: and you know, just trying to rebuild our infrastructure and

455
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 3: continue to grow. You know, I think any funding that

456
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,479
Speaker 3: the city could procure what would be beneficial. So maybe

457
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 3: revisiting those qualifications could kind of open up, you know,

458
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 3: more help and more funding for some of these municipalities

459
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,479
Speaker 3: that are really in need of that.

460
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 2: So you'd like to see the population qualification. I assume

461
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 2: Peter dropped from the thirty five thousand maybe down to

462
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 2: thirty thousand. Senator, is it possible that this program could

463
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: be expanded or.

464
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, So let me say this Glocester is

465
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: not a gateway city designated right now, but what you

466
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: are designated as is a quote unquote similarly situated which

467
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: is a list that was developed after twenty eighteen the

468
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: Legislature and Economic Development Bond Bill put some money into

469
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: a bucket, so to speak, for mass housing, and there's

470
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: eight communities that are below that thirty five thousand threshold,

471
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 1: so this somewhere between seventeen thousand and thirty five, and

472
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 1: you're considered similarly situated. And there's actually a mass housing

473
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 1: grant available to Gloucester as one of the seven today.

474
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: But I hear you, and that's exactly what I am

475
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 1: talking about doing here is I think that we have

476
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: some communities that are just above the line right now

477
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: that we could invest in in just below the line,

478
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: so to speak, in terms of how gateway communities are

479
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: being defined. And I think we should really widen the

480
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: pie because there's certainly a lot of areas like Gloucester

481
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: and Randolph, which I represent and which started this kind

482
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: of interest for me in this topic. I would like

483
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: to carve in some additional communities as we have a

484
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: conversation and look at the law.

485
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 2: I'd be interested in know are you aware of that

486
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 2: a grant that the Senator has referred to?

487
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 3: No, I wasn't, and I thank you for that.

488
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: And what about this, maybe, Senator, what we could do

489
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 2: is when we go to a break here in a moment,

490
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: we could give Peter a number that he could get

491
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 2: in someone from glossog could get in touch with you

492
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: and discuss a little bit more specifically what gloss to

493
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 2: is apparently entitled to and they're not.

494
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: Receiving absolutely okay, yeah and that.

495
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 2: So Peter, do me a favorite stay on the line.

496
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 2: We got to go to a quick break here and Rob,

497
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 2: if you can get the senator's office number or whatever

498
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: number he wants to give you to pass on to

499
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: Peter uh before he leaves again. Peter, thanks so much

500
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: of calling. Maybe you've helped your city a little bit

501
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: here with a with a well timed phone call. Thank

502
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: you so much for listening to the night side as well.

503
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 3: Appreciate it all right, you hang in there.

504
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,959
Speaker 2: Rob, you expedict that communication. I'm going to go to break.

505
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 2: If someone else would like to join the conversation, we

506
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 2: got a little bit of time left. Feel free six

507
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 2: one seven, two, five four ten thirty six one seven

508
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: nine three one ten thirty. We're talking about Massachusetts Gateway municipality,

509
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: cities and towns, and we're talking with Massachusetts State Senator

510
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:30,479
Speaker 2: William Driscoll, who really I think understands this very well. Senator,

511
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: I deal with a lot of state representatives and senators,

512
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 2: and I got to tell you, you've very much impressed

513
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: me tonight with your your background and your knowledge and

514
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: your understanding of this situation. You really do get the

515
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 2: nuances and you have represented the State Senate remarkably well.

516
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: On my program tonight, we have one more segment. If

517
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: you can stick with us, we'll we'll let you go

518
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: at ten o'clock.

519
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, thanks, Dyed, appreciate it.

520
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: My pleasure, My pleasure. This is a fascinating topic to me,

521
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: might not be to my audience, but this is what

522
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 2: government is all about, and to really drill down and

523
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: understand what's going on. And Representative Drisco, or rather Senator Driscoll,

524
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 2: has been extremely extremely clear in what's at stake, and

525
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 2: it's a lot of money for communities like Gloucester, where

526
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: Peter called from back on Nightside right after this, you're on.

527
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z, Boston's

528
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: news radio.

529
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: I'm talking with Massachusetts State Senator William Driscoll. Bill Driscoll

530
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 2: comes from represents seven communities or parts of seven communities

531
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 2: on the South Shore comes from Milton, and he's done

532
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 2: Yeomen's work here on finding inaccuracies within the programs that

533
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 2: benefit Massachusetts Gateway municipalities. So where do we go from here? Senator?

534
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 2: You have done a lot of work on this, and

535
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: I must tell you I am not, you know, a

536
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 2: mathematical nerd or anything like that, but I do like

537
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: conversations about specific programs so we can learn about programs

538
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: that are intended to help people. And I think you

539
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: are telling us so far you have found about twenty

540
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 2: six million. Is that the number twenty six million dollars

541
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 2: that have been in effect misallocated? Correct from Yeah?

542
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're about twenty five that we can definitively uh

543
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: okay show Yeah.

544
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: And as someone once said, a million here and a

545
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 2: million there, it eventually runs into some real money. So

546
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 2: where do you take this? I mean, obviously you have

547
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: taken it to a level here, and I think a

548
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: lot of people appreciate the work you've done. But what's

549
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 2: the next couple of steps, if any?

550
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: Yeah? So, I think it's really important in the conversations

551
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: that I've had with colleagues in the legislature. It's clear

552
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: that statutory framework for this, in terms of who qualifies

553
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: and who doesn't and what we're targeting investments in, really

554
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: needs to be reopened and updated. You know, we need

555
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: to have accuracy and accountability farness that essentially the public deserves,

556
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: making sure that we are allocating tax dollars appropriately in

557
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: the way that we intend to do so in the

558
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: various programs. So I filed some legislation. It's you know,

559
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: it's the conversation starter. I filed it in a supplemental

560
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: budget earlier this year, and I spoke on the floor

561
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: of the Senate about and part of what one of

562
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: the provisions would would explicitly give the Economic Development Secretary,

563
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: no matter who that is in an administration, the charge

564
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 1: to monitor this list and see who is qualifying or

565
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: maybe is graduating off the list, so to speak, give

566
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: them discretion to to move and appropriately update the list

567
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: as time goes on. Because I really think part of

568
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: what's happened here, it's happened across multiple administrations. I don't

569
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 1: think it's anything you know, sinister or anything like that,

570
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,439
Speaker 1: but you know, these programs, we put them in in motion,

571
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: and we really need to revisit them every ten years

572
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: or so, and I think we kind of surpassed. This

573
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: all started like an nine twenty ten era to give

574
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 1: listeners a sense of when this was codified into law.

575
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 1: And so here we are in twenty twenty six, and

576
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: we need to make sure that there's an office, probably

577
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: Economic Development Secretary's office in the executive branch, with that

578
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: explicit charge day in and day out to manage the

579
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: list and manage some of the programs that gateway municipalities

580
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: have either preferential or exclusive access to fund streams.

581
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: Well, again, we've heard recently about you know, big time

582
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 2: fraud in some other states. In any state budget, we

583
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 2: would expect that there would be some fat. This is

584
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 2: not fat, this is misallocation. And let's get the money

585
00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: to the communities, the municipalities that deserve the money and

586
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 2: and they can do the most with it. And I

587
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 2: just want to say to you, thank you for your

588
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 2: time tonight, and thank you, thank you for the work

589
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: that you've done here. Again, this is not going to

590
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 2: be headline grabbing work, but I think it's really important,

591
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 2: particularly for people who live in a couple of communities

592
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 2: one Weymouth in your district, and also Marlborough that should

593
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 2: be on this list. I think you've proven that tonight.

594
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 2: Uh and yeah, and I just I'm very impressed, to

595
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 2: be really honest with you, because there's a lot of

596
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 2: people up there and the legislature who I am not

597
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 2: necessarily impressed by.

598
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: Uh. Yeah, I think you know, we talked a lot

599
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 1: about Amherst Amars is a great place. I think it

600
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: deserves a lot of investment. Maybe this is not the

601
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: right program, uh you know, like we said before, it

602
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: technically would fit today, but I think it's you know,

603
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 1: about accountability for the taxpayer and making sure that as

604
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: he is. You know, in the legislature, we we set

605
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: the policy and then it's implemented and operationalized by the

606
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: executive brands. And these things can happen sometimes, but it's

607
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: really about going forward, making sure that we carve some

608
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: new communities in and make sure the funding's going to

609
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: the places that we intended.

610
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's funny how one issue is related

611
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: to another. I don't mean to put you on the

612
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 2: spot here, but I'm always troubled when, either in Massachusetts

613
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 2: or in any state, students who come in here and

614
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: are temporary residents in Massachusetts then can vote in political elections,

615
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 2: congressional elections, presidential elections. They should vote in the place

616
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 2: they live, in my opinion, and similarly, here Amherst should

617
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 2: not get extra money from the state because they have,

618
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 2: you know, a substantial number or or a high population

619
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 2: that doesn't that doesn't count kids who haven't completed their education,

620
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 2: which is I think the problem here. So you know,

621
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: I just think that they're a lot of decisions made

622
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 2: at the legislators that are important, and this is an

623
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 2: important one. And I hope someday if we talk about

624
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 2: whether students in Amherst who aren't residents of Massachusetts should

625
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 2: be voting in Massachusetts elections. I just think that that

626
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 2: what you do, what your folks do up there, is

627
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 2: very important for the good and maybe sometimes for the

628
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 2: not so good. And I thank you. This is the

629
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: first time we've worked together on the air, and I

630
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 2: really was impressed, and I thank you with the amount

631
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 2: of here and concern that you've given to this issue. Senator,

632
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 2: State Senator Massachusetts State Senator William Driscoll, Thank you very much. Senator.

633
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: Thanks Dan.

634
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: We'll talk again when we get back. We're going to

635
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,919
Speaker 2: talk with old friend Dean Shaughnessy about why Bill Belichick

636
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 2: was not included in this year's Hall of Fame class.

637
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of people who don't like Belichick.

638
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 2: There's a lot there not to like, but it should

639
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 2: not prevent him from becoming a rightful member of the

640
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 2: Pro Football Hall of Fame at Canton, Ohio. Talk with

641
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 2: Dan Shaughnessy after the ten o'clock News