1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Hey, Ben, are you out of the woods with the 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: malady pretty close? 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, we are, We're pretty much. I was in ninety 4 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 2: five percent back to normal. 5 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: Good, well, we miss you in studio. How excited was Emily? 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: You got sick and and and you couldn't write pool 7 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: side in Scottsdale. 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's probably not the worst assignment upgrade. 9 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 2: When when she got that text on Saturday morning, I 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 2: you know, the influenza be stuff has been ripping through 11 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: everybody's schools and families and stuff. So when I got that, 12 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I probably should sit this one out. 13 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 2: And she was in position to go, and I was 14 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: the question I think was going to be, can we 15 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 2: get travel arranged in time? But yeah, I think she 16 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 2: said that one. Compared to the combine, it was a 17 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 2: little more relaxed, and the working arrangements are a little 18 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 2: bit of an upgrade over the Conventions Center in Indianapolis. 19 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't think it was a terribly tough 20 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 2: draw for her to get that call, having to pack 21 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 2: up and go quickly. 22 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 1: Working arrangements only cow Ben Gestling, Star Tribune, Start Tribune 23 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: dot Com at Ben Geslin via X. When when my 24 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: son Derek attended Grand Canyon University. That Builtmore they're at 25 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: for the owners meetings is the single greatest hotel at 26 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: which I've ever stayed, So we can just add that 27 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: to the uh to whatever consternation goes into missing this trip. 28 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: Good for Emily, and she's doing a wonderful, wonderful job, 29 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: Emily like her, But you missed a doozy with that hotel, 30 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: didn't you. 31 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I did that one. I sound like it might 32 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: be back there again next year because I believe it 33 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 2: had been in Florida two years in a row, so 34 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 2: close circuit to Emily. You know, you had a good 35 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: run with it one year, but I'm probably gonna pull 36 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 2: rank on that one again next year because you it 37 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 2: is a good one. There's this thing ends up being 38 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 2: usually somewhere fairly, fairly high toned in fancies, just so 39 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: to speak, because the owners are men of means and 40 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: want to be in nice places. So you know, it's 41 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 2: the Breakers in Paul Beach a lot. I think it's 42 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 2: been in near Disney World, that one of the Marriott's 43 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: and Orlando in the past. But yeah, the Biltmore is 44 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,119 Speaker 2: the other one I've done, and the Builtmore is Yeah, 45 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 2: it's a it's an incredibly nice hotel, and the weather's 46 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 2: usually I think it was warmer out there than it 47 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 2: often is. But yeah, nobody's going to complain too much 48 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: about being able to sit outside and work in Arizona. 49 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: It's one of the nicer places I've been as well. 50 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 2: And yeah, definitely a fun spot for a off season assignment. 51 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: Well you you you say the owners are people of 52 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: means not. According to the NFL Referees Association, they think 53 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: the owners are chintzy. They want they want the most, 54 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: you know, the most important games of the year, playoff 55 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: games in the super Bowl to be handled by officials 56 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: and white Caps off seniority even if they make a 57 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: million mistakes, this you know the NFL. I think the 58 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: NFL is going to hire these one point fifty and 59 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: put them through the paces to get ready for a season. 60 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: How hot do you think this thing is? 61 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the fact that they passed that one 62 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,639 Speaker 2: year rule about being able to weigh in from New 63 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 2: York in the event that they don't come to a 64 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 2: deal tells you they certainly are are gearing up for 65 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: this that they know this is definitely a possibility. And 66 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: some of this could be, you know, an aggressive tactic 67 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 2: at this point. But I think all of that stuff 68 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 2: being in the mix, from the competition committee to this 69 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 2: idea of possibly hiring replacement refs again tells you they 70 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 2: are not unaware of the possibility that this happens. I mean, 71 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 2: you know, the last time we saw it obviously and 72 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: ended with the fail mary and pretty quickly after that 73 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: it got resolved because it was such an arrassing thing 74 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: for the league to have that on money now football 75 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: and have that be something that the entire world really 76 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 2: was talking about. So I don't know that they want 77 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 2: to go through that again. But as we've seen with 78 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: the NFL, if they have the ability to put themselves 79 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 2: in a position of leverage, they are not gonna turn 80 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 2: that down. So I think they are very much signaling 81 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 2: like they are preparing for the possibility of replacement reps, 82 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 2: the possibility of having different modifications for replay this year. 83 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: You know, I think they are sending plenty of signals 84 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: that that is serious. I mean, we are probably not 85 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 2: quite to a deadline yet on this, and I believe 86 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 2: I think it's the end of the month that that 87 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 2: contract expires, but the deadline could make things a little smoother, 88 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: and everybody comes back to a more negotiable position at 89 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 2: that point. But yeah, they certainly are sending every signal 90 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 2: that they are trying to squeeze the re fs and 91 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 2: we will see what happens with it. But yeah, right now, 92 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 2: very much sending a lot of pretty loud signals. 93 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: The the just just tell me what you think I'm 94 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: missing here. I'm gonna ask you your opinion first. But 95 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: the the money portion of the equation, I mean, that 96 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: can fix itself. So I don't like, you know, they 97 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: they want ten, they want to give six. Let's meet, 98 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: it's seven point twenty five. I mean that that can 99 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: be fixable. But when the when the uh? The NFL 100 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: is uh. The second disagreement of three playoff assignments UH 101 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: the the Referees Association wants playoff assignments to hinge on 102 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 1: official seniority, giving preferential treatment to veterans, where the league 103 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: wants it to be merit based, and that ties into 104 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: really the the first disagreement, the NFL's desire to increase 105 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: accountability measures for poorly performing officials. The NFL wants the 106 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: ability to place lower performers on probationary periods and the 107 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: referees associations fighting back. How do you fight back on that? 108 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: I mean, like if vern from wherever he's worked in 109 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 1: the league thirty five years and missed fifty five calls 110 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: over the course of ten weeks, but he's been in 111 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: the league that long so he gets to do playoff games, 112 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: just listen to that. I mean, that's just wrong. 113 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that that is That's where I think 114 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 2: a lot of these things come down. I mean, when 115 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 2: you're talking about collective bargaining, a lot of times it's 116 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 2: the question of do the people that have the most 117 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 2: seniority get the most preference? And I think a lot 118 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 2: of times what you probably see in a collective bargaining 119 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 2: situation is the people who have seniority may have the 120 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: loudest voices within that union, and then that is going 121 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 2: to shape the priorities that the union takes to the 122 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 2: bargaining table with the company that it is negotiating with. 123 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 2: And you know what, this could happen in any union 124 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 2: in the country, I think, but I think that's probably 125 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 2: part of what's driving the union's position on this, is 126 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 2: the voices in their internal discussions of what do we 127 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 2: want to prioritize here are probably coming pretty loudly from 128 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: the people with seniority, and it tends to be that 129 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 2: type of a culture. But that I mean, I can 130 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: think at times where this has been an issue with 131 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 2: in education in terms of how much are our teachers 132 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: being graded and how much is seniority coming into compensation. 133 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I've been in unionized newsrooms at 134 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 2: the Star Tribune and other places where we've had those 135 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: things too, So I mean there are some of those 136 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 2: dynamics that go into these discussions. But yeah, this question 137 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 2: of how do you evaluate and grade people in terms 138 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,559 Speaker 2: of performance versus seniority, I mean, you'd want to think 139 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: that seniority and in a lot of cases the experience 140 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 2: for refs are the ones that do perform really well. 141 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,679 Speaker 2: But that isn't going to be true across the board. 142 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 2: So this discussion of how do you do this with 143 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 2: a broad brush versus how do you evaluate people individually? 144 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 2: I think is some of the hang up here. And 145 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: I can see where a lot of the union perspective 146 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 2: on this may be if we go down this road 147 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: to create the slippery slope, and you make it makes 148 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 2: it harder for people to kind of come through the 149 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 2: ranks and feel like they've got a good foundation going forward. 150 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 2: But is the NFL is talking about it too. It's like, yeah, 151 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 2: I can see why the NFL would say we want 152 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: to have a means for accountability on this because you 153 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 2: have the technology now to say, hey, this call was 154 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 2: missed and this could fix. And a lot of the 155 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: discussion when we do replay is replay cannot initiate a penalty. 156 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 2: It has to be coming from on the field, and 157 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 2: replay is only reviewing or correcting things that are clear 158 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: and obvious. But the call of a penalty, the call 159 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: of a certain action on the field or judgment on 160 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: the field, has to initiate from a referee, from a 161 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 2: human being. So I think the league is saying, if 162 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 2: we're going to do that, then we want to make 163 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 2: sure we have ways to have safeguards in place here too. 164 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,719 Speaker 2: So I think a lot of that is, you know, 165 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: it reminds me of discussions I have seen between collective 166 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: bargaining parties before, So I think that's going to be 167 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 2: probably a sticking point as we go through this. But 168 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 2: I can see why the NFL would say, if we've 169 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 2: got the means to grade and evaluate officials. Why would 170 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 2: we not want to use that. 171 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 1: I love how you explain that. And lastly here I 172 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: think the NFL, in a roundabout way with some of 173 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: its requests, is conceding that we've assimilated a pool of 174 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 1: bad officials. And you know, like I said earlier in 175 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: the radio show, you don't have to be Bernie Kukar 176 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: working ten years in the Mayac eighteen years in the 177 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 1: Big ten takes you like thirty years just to get 178 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: in the NFL. It can't be disputed. Not the white Caps. 179 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: And by the way, the white Caps, the ones on 180 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: the mic, I think two of them, definitely one, but 181 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: I think two have been demoted within the last couple 182 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: of years, you know, from from white Cap back to 183 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: umpire or something like that. But it's it can't be 184 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: disputed when you look at when you know where to 185 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: look for what you're looking for about the side judges, 186 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: back judges, umpires, the ants, the officials that they're they're 187 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: in essence skipping levels. I mean they're just not putting 188 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: in the tent. They're not required to put in the time, 189 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: time on task to be good enough to officiate. Oh, 190 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: just the most lucrative and popular sporting entity probably in 191 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: the world. So I think the NFL is conceding that. 192 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: You know, with the way we've made some hires over 193 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: the last five, six, seven years, we've made some mistakes 194 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: and we got to clean this thing out. 195 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I think you've seen that, probably with younger 196 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 2: officials coming through. And I think one thing to add 197 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 2: to this discussion is officiating as a whole. I see 198 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 2: this all the time in high school. I mean as 199 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 2: a high school and college coach, even talking meat officials 200 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 2: at track meets or you see this at basketball games. 201 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,680 Speaker 2: You hear about this all the time. There is a 202 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 2: shortage of people who want to officiate because I mean, 203 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 2: everything's on social media now, everything's on a smartphone. I'm 204 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 2: sure that that is part of it. The pay is 205 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 2: not great, the hours are not great. So at every 206 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 2: level of sports, you have a shortage of people who 207 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 2: want to officiate. What that means, I mean, are people 208 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 2: going to want to officiate in the NFL, of course, 209 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 2: But what we do face, I think is the pipeline 210 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 2: to get to this level is probably not as high 211 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 2: or not as rigorous, where you did have people like 212 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 2: Bernie Kukar getting those reps early on at lower levels 213 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 2: and getting experience of officiating games. Yeah, before they get 214 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 2: to the NFL. If you have to push people through 215 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 2: faster because there are fewer to pick from, it does 216 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 2: mean that maybe people get advanced a little faster and 217 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 2: they come to the league a little with a little 218 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 2: less experience. But I mean that is absolutely happening at 219 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 2: every level of sports. Is people are not signing up 220 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 2: to officiate in large numbers, so I would have to 221 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 2: think that has some effect on what we're seeing, even 222 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 2: at the top levels of this. 223 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: Tyler knows he's starting, right, I mean Mark Wilf told 224 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: Nine to Noon yesterday the first thing Kyler Murray said 225 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: to him was, quote, I'm here to win championships. End quote. 226 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: And I don't think Kyler's saying that if he's like 227 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: Daniel Jones hitting the practice squad after departing the New 228 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: Jersey Home for Broken Toys, Right. 229 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I think the smart money is on Kyler 230 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 2: Murray starting. I mean, I think the way they've talked 231 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 2: about wanting to work with him, even some of the things, 232 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 2: you know, I think Emily picked up and only I 233 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 2: have chatted about some of these things from the owners meetings. 234 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 2: Is they very much went into this offseason with the 235 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 2: knowing well that Kyler Murray could be a target for 236 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 2: them and could be an option for them and men 237 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 2: a guy like Frank Smith. I mentioned Frank Smith a 238 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 2: number of times, but I really do think he's going 239 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 2: to have a fairly large voice in this offense. And 240 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 2: one of the ways that that may play out is 241 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 2: if you have a quarterback that's going to play out 242 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 2: of the gun more often, if you have a quarterback 243 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 2: that's a little more mobile. Some of the things that 244 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 2: he has been part of and some of the things 245 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 2: that he has helped orchestrate probably you know, certainly in 246 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: Miami and then some other places as well. I think 247 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 2: when they were bringing him in they had a guy 248 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 2: like Kyler Murray in mind, and certainly JJ McCarthy is 249 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 2: going to be a mobile quarterback as well, and you 250 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 2: can use him in some of those ways. But Kyler Murray, 251 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 2: I think that's higher on the list of what he 252 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 2: does and how you build around him than it is 253 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 2: with probably anybody else they have in that So, yes, 254 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 2: I think a lot of this is being structured with 255 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: the idea he's the guy, and we will see if 256 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 2: he wins the job when he gets on the field, 257 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 2: if what they see confirms what they think. But it 258 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: certainly seems at this point like every indication is that 259 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 2: he will be the guy. I don't know that I 260 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 2: would call it his one at this point, but every 261 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 2: indication we've had would suggest that's how they're looking at 262 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 2: this as they go forward from March Round one of 263 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: the NFL Draft three weeks from tomorrow. Have any steam 264 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 2: for the eighteen spot. Well, I think there's a lot 265 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: of ways they could go about this. I mean those safeties, 266 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 2: whether it's McNeil, Warren or Dylan Thineman, Caleb Downs, even 267 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 2: if he were to slide, there's a lot of guys 268 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 2: that would feel like they're really good fits for the Vikings, 269 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 2: especially if Harrison Smith is not there, And even if 270 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 2: he is, I think a guy that Brian Flord can 271 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: use in a number of different ways and kind of 272 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 2: treat as another chess piece in this defense would be 273 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 2: attracted to them. I got a question for my newsletter 274 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 2: this week about tackle, and it's like, I don't think 275 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 2: that would be at the top of the list, but 276 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 2: it made me think, just because Brian O'Neil probably needs 277 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 2: an extension. He's a free agent after this year and 278 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 2: they have to make a decision going forward. But even 279 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 2: if they were to extend him, I don't think it's 280 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 2: impossible that they would say, hey, if this is the 281 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 2: best guy available, knowing that O'Neill is in his early thirties, 282 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: knowing that you've had the questions with Christian Darisaw, it's 283 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 2: not a bad investment to say, let's develop a guy 284 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: and have him ready. It's not the immediate need, and 285 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 2: I don't know that I'm putting that at the top 286 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 2: of the list. I think running back is going to 287 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 2: be something they address. I don't know if it's in 288 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 2: a Round one. I think that's probably a Day two solution. 289 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: But I would not keep offensive tackle at the bottom 290 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: of my list of needs. I just think that's going 291 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 2: to be something that if they found somebody they really liked. 292 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 2: I mean, that could be a position worth considering because 293 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 2: of some of the factors I just mentioned, But you know, 294 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 2: it's it's safety. I think defensive tackle makes some sense 295 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 2: because of the guys that they tried to bring in 296 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: and that they now have cut because they didn't get 297 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 2: the impact they wanted. So you know, a lot of 298 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 2: those spots are going to be ones that get a 299 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 2: lot of attention, and I think running back probably becomes 300 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 2: one that gets addressed in the course of this. But yeah, 301 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 2: the safeties are intriguing to me because of the ways 302 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 2: Brian floor Is would use them in the ways that 303 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 2: a lot of their skill sets seem to fit very 304 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 2: well with what the Vikings would want. 305 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: Do you do mock drafts? 306 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 2: I will do one. I do it like the day 307 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 2: or two before the draft. Will do the seven rounder, 308 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 2: you know, and we'll have a big package of stuff 309 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 2: on that before it comes out. I don't do like 310 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 2: mock draft three point zero, four point zero. I will 311 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 2: do the one that'll come out draft. 312 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: Week seven rounds. Oh, just for the Vikings. 313 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 2: Just for the Vikings. I'm not one of the psychos 314 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 2: that does all of the picks, you know, all two 315 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,239 Speaker 2: hundred and seventy two picks or whatever it is, all 316 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 2: the way through. Yeah, I'll do the Vikings basically all 317 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 2: of their picks I'll put in. I'll probably do some 318 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 2: mock trades because I've had some fun with that over 319 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 2: the last few years. But yes, I'll do that, and 320 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 2: basically it'll be a pick for every spot they have 321 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 2: a draft pick, and then probably a couple other players 322 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 2: they could consider if they don't pick that player. So 323 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 2: there'll be something like twenty twenty five names in that 324 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 2: mock draft. But yeah, that'll be out the week of 325 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 2: the draft. 326 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: Who who? Lastly, who is your favorite or who are 327 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: your favorite out of market draft analysts like here nine 328 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 1: to Noon, we like Jordan Reid and Field Yates with 329 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 1: the ESPN. 330 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Daniel Jeremiah has always been one for 331 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 2: me that I placed a lot of value in because 332 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,479 Speaker 2: he's a guy that has done this at you know, 333 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 2: inside a league. I mean a guy that has a 334 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 2: lot of relationships in the league, and he does not 335 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: strike me as a guy that can sometimes to see 336 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 2: people say things just to attract headlines and be a 337 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 2: little bit splashy. He's never struck me as that, So 338 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 2: I've always been impressed with him and just always been 339 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 2: very accessible with his time when he's available to reporters 340 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 2: and conference calls or even things like at the comline. 341 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 2: So yeah, I look at him quite a bit. I mean, 342 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 2: Todd McShay over the years has been one I've placed 343 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 2: a fair amount of trust in. I would say, you 344 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 2: know Matt Bowen when he's not in this world all 345 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 2: the time. But you know, I got to know Matt 346 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 2: Bowen when I was ESPN and was extremely impressed with 347 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 2: the way he went about things and just kind of 348 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 2: a humility he brought to the whole process. So again, 349 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 2: not a guy that's doing draft stuff every second, but 350 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 2: when he weighs in on a player, I tend to 351 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 2: pay attention because a guy that's played the game, a 352 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 2: guy that's ridibly knowledgeable about what he does, So I 353 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 2: tend to, especially with defensive players, place a fair amount 354 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 2: of stock in his opinion on things. 355 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: You've covered the league for a decade and a half 356 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: and you're a scribe, do you happen to remember Rick 357 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: Goslin for the Dallas Morning News? 358 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 2: Yep? 359 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: Okay? Now that he provided the greatest day of draft 360 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: mock drafts that you would ever that you would ever see. 361 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: I mean it was before social media. He was so 362 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: plugged in mourning of round one. He would drop a 363 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: first round mock and was so respected by general managers 364 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 1: and the like around the league. Goose would hit around 365 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: seventy percent of the picks, including always almost nailing the 366 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: entire top ten. I mean, that was incredible. 367 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 2: That's pretty elite. And he's a legend in the business 368 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 2: and a guy that I think his special teams rankings 369 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 2: are still seen as one of the more reputable intro 370 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,719 Speaker 2: for the rankings of special teams units around the league. 371 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 2: That exists even to this day. So yeah, a guy 372 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 2: that has a lot of trust from front offices, a 373 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,719 Speaker 2: lot of trust from scouts around the league. Yeah, certainly 374 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 2: a legend, still, a Hall of Fame voter, I believe, 375 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 2: and the guy that I've talked to a couple of 376 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 2: times over the years. Yeah, certainly a voice that I 377 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 2: trust and one that's worth paying attention to. The other 378 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 2: I guess the other name along those lines, as you 379 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 2: mentioned it, Bob McGahn, who covered the Packers for a 380 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 2: long time for the Milwaukee's General Sentinel. Still doing a 381 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 2: lot of work with Tyler Dunn his series that he 382 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 2: does every year over a golong. He talks to a 383 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 2: lot of scouts and gets quite a bit of candid 384 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 2: stuff about players that you may not see other places, 385 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 2: because some places probably aren't quite as honest and to 386 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 2: the point as he's got the ability to be there. 387 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: So that's always a resource when he puts out his 388 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 2: draft guide every year for go Along. That's one I 389 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 2: look at pretty thoroughly as well, because he's as plugged 390 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 2: in as anybody in the league. Has a network of 391 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 2: people evaluators that have brought a lot of insight on players, 392 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 2: and he's been pretty good at using the relationships and 393 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 2: the intel that he gets from those things to have 394 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 2: a strong handle on the draft and what the players 395 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 2: are going to do once they get to the NFL. 396 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: Hey man, glad you're feeling better. Hope to see you 397 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: in studio next week if you have time. 398 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, absolutely, We'll get back on track with 399 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 2: the normal routine next week once I'm back to a 400 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 2: full one hundred percent. So thanks for being flexible today. 401 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,159 Speaker 1: Yep, Thanks Bud, have a good day, all right, YouTube man, 402 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: Thanks Ben Gasoline Star Tribune Start Tribune dot Com from