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Speaker 1: It's Night's Eyes with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy

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Speaker 1: Boston's news Radio.

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Speaker 2: Well, good evening everyone, Thanks very much, Madison.

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Speaker 3: This is what I consider to be one of our

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Speaker 3: most important shows of the year. For nineteen years, every fall,

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Speaker 3: generally in November, sometimes a little into early December, depending

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Speaker 3: upon people's schedules. We have been blessed by the participation

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Speaker 3: of Dean Bill Fitzsimmons, William Fitzimmons of Harvard University.

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Speaker 2: Just he's been with us every nineteen years. Bill Fitzimmons,

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Speaker 2: welcome back to Night Side.

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Speaker 4: It's hard to imagine and I'm only eighteen.

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Speaker 3: We'll get you some remedial math tutoring over at Harvard

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Speaker 3: on that one, that's for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You started off with a guy named John Mahoney from

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Speaker 3: Boston College, and John retired, how dare he retire on us?

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Speaker 3: And in his stead for the last several years, and

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Speaker 3: I think it's about five or six, is the Dean

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Speaker 3: of Admissions and Financial Aid, the identical title that Bill

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Speaker 3: Fitzimmons has had for so many years. Dean Goslin. That

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Speaker 3: title was announced today. Congratulations on such a promotion.

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Speaker 5: Well, thanks very much, Dan, it's really good to be

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Speaker 5: with you. Bill, It's good to be with you again.

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Speaker 5: This evening is also.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know same here and congratulations. You started as

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Speaker 4: an undergraduate at BC and I did great.

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Speaker 5: Well, it's really great to be back in this role,

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Speaker 5: so I'm grateful to be here with you this evening.

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Speaker 3: Of course, both of you started as undergraduates at your

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Speaker 3: respective institution, so a lot of history here and I

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Speaker 3: do hope that we can get as many young people.

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Speaker 3: We've mentioned this prominently. I think it's one of the

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Speaker 3: most important shows that we've done over the years, this

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Speaker 3: annual college admissions panel. And we have been blessed again

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Speaker 3: by Dean Fitzsimmons being with us for nineteen years and

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Speaker 3: now Dean Grant Goslin of Boston College. They both now

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Speaker 3: share the same title of Dean of Admissions and Financial Aid,

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Speaker 3: so both of them are very competent on those issues,

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Speaker 3: which really are pretty much what wraps up most parents

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Speaker 3: are thinking about. And let's start it off. We'll go

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Speaker 3: in in alphabetical order. This is not a seniority issue,

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Speaker 3: but we'll start with a couple of questions for Dean

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Speaker 3: Fitzsimmons and for Dean Goslin and what has changed, Bill Fitzsimmons,

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Speaker 3: in the landscape of college admissions from let us say,

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Speaker 3: I'll just pick a number nineteen years ago. Has it

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Speaker 3: gotten tougher, has it gotten easier, more competitive, less competitive?

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Speaker 2: What's where has this process gone?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there are loads of changes, and you know, I

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Speaker 4: think one of the really great things that's happened over

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Speaker 4: the past nineteen years is that financial aid has become

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Speaker 4: even more generous. I mean, in our place, we've made

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Speaker 4: a couple of very recent changes, so now it's free

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Speaker 4: families whose incomes are under one hundred thousand dollars a

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Speaker 4: year and on only. This is about twenty five percent

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Speaker 4: of our students now, which is a big change. And

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Speaker 4: you know, one of the great things if you're one

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Speaker 4: of these kids, and I would have been one of them,

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Speaker 4: and I'm a first generation student as well, and that's

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Speaker 4: about twenty percent of our students today. But if you're

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Speaker 4: one of these lucky people with a totally free education,

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Speaker 4: you also are going to get a two thousand dollars

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Speaker 4: startup grant in August, and of your first year you

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Speaker 4: get a thousand that or a thousand at midyear, and

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Speaker 4: then you get what we call a launch grant of

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Speaker 4: two thousand dollars at the beginning of junior year so

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Speaker 4: that you can go off and travel and take job interviews,

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Speaker 4: look at graduate schools and so on, do all the

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Speaker 4: things that you need to do to launch yourself on

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Speaker 4: a career. So the other thing is it's now free

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Speaker 4: tuition for those who are incomes two hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 4: and less, and that covers a good chunk of the

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Speaker 4: American population. Around eighty five percent of the American population,

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Speaker 4: you know, would certainly be covered by that. And the

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Speaker 4: other thing we're trying to get up the point across

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Speaker 4: is that there are plenty of families now who earn

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Speaker 4: two fifty three hundred thousand, three hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 4: dollars a year who by the time you look at

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Speaker 4: what they're spending on tuition and living expenses, and let's

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Speaker 4: say they've got three or four kids, and maybe they're

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Speaker 4: taking care of family, you know, an elderly family member,

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Speaker 4: or have other expenses, they can be sitting there more

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Speaker 4: or less broke at three hundred thousand dollars a year, So,

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Speaker 4: you know, so that's the other pieces we're trying to

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Speaker 4: remind people that almost no matter where you are on

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Speaker 4: the income distribution you're going to you're going to be

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Speaker 4: in very good shape in terms of being able to

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Speaker 4: afford Harvard. And none of the people, it's over fifty

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Speaker 4: five percent of our students right now are are on

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Speaker 4: need based financial aid at Harvard and they are not

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Speaker 4: required to take out loans or are they are required

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Speaker 4: to work over the summer. So it's a that's a

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Speaker 4: really really big difference. And I think that's that kind

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Speaker 4: of thing. It's not just at Harvard that there are

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Speaker 4: these great financial aid programs, but it also means that

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Speaker 4: I think more people are looking at places like us

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Speaker 4: and they're getting beyond this misconception really that you can't

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Speaker 4: afford to go to a place like Harvard or Boston College.

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Speaker 3: So under a family that is making under one hundred

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Speaker 3: thousand dollars, it's it's what you call the full boat

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Speaker 3: tuition bedroom and board, and under two hundred thousand, the

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Speaker 3: tuition is gratis, but there's some room and board obligations.

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Speaker 3: Did I do I understand? I just try to break

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Speaker 3: that down a little simply.

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Speaker 4: Here is that that's right, and though you could, let's

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Speaker 4: say you're making two hundred to two fifty, and you

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Speaker 4: have unusual expenses, or you've got multiple kids in college

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Speaker 4: and of that kind of thing. In those situations, you

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Speaker 4: could get way more than just the tuition paid for. Okay,

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Speaker 4: So that's you know, this is a very generous set

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Speaker 4: of financial aid opportunities.

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Speaker 2: And let me let me just real quickly.

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Speaker 3: Grant Goslin, the dean of Admission and Financial Aid at

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Speaker 3: Boston College. Boston College is a fabulous institution. Are there

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Speaker 3: help is the help I should say for family families

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Speaker 3: and students who are a little bit more strapped than

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Speaker 3: once they're accepted. It's your admissions also basically blind as

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Speaker 3: to need. You're not saying, well, we can't accept his

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Speaker 3: kid because he can't pay as much.

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Speaker 5: Correct, that's correct. Yeah, So there are only about two

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Speaker 5: dozen private universities in the United States that practice two

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Speaker 5: policies simultaneously. The first is what you just referenced, practicing

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Speaker 5: need blind admission, meaning when we evaluate an applicant, we

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Speaker 5: are not looking to see whether they've applied for aid,

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Speaker 5: and if they have, we're certainly not looking at those

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Speaker 5: financial aid documents. We're admitting students based on the quality

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Speaker 5: of their application their merit within our pool, both Harvard

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Speaker 5: and Boston College, you know, both subscribed need blind admission,

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Speaker 5: but we're also then meeting the full demonstrated financial need

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Speaker 5: of the students that are admitted to our institutions. We're

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Speaker 5: really looking at what their families can afford to contribute

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Speaker 5: and really trying to help them meet the difference. And

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Speaker 5: we award a budget of about one hundred and ninety

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Speaker 5: million dollars a year in undergraduate need based financial aid

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Speaker 5: at Boston College. Many of our students will receive packages

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Speaker 5: atout loans. We have really just so many resources available.

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Speaker 5: I think oftentimes private universities you look at a sticker

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Speaker 5: price that might be quite high, and I think some

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Speaker 5: families will rule out institutions like Boston College or Harvard,

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Speaker 5: and I think that's a big mistake. Just as Bill

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Speaker 5: was saying a minute ago, our institutions a really well

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Speaker 5: resourced to provide the financial aid that families need to

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Speaker 5: be able to accept our offers, and we're really proud

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Speaker 5: of the work that we're doing in those areas. Is

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Speaker 5: so absolutely we would certainly encourage students to take a

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Speaker 5: close look, even if cost scenes burdensome. There are net

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Speaker 5: price calculators on our websites where students can go and

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Speaker 5: do a little bit of research to figure out if

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Speaker 5: they might qualify for aid and what that package might

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Speaker 5: look like. And those net price calculators come with a

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Speaker 5: high level of accuracy, about a ninety percent accuracy rate

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Speaker 5: in most families. So it really does, I think, provide

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Speaker 5: not only the great financial aid, but the transparency upfront

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Speaker 5: in terms of how families will be able to afford

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Speaker 5: our institutions.

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Speaker 3: Great opening segment because it does combine obviously the schools

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Speaker 3: and the financial resources, which in this day and age,

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Speaker 3: everyone almost has to take that into consideration in some

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Speaker 3: form of fashion. But you can consider it less at BC,

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Speaker 3: at Harvard and at some of the other marquee institutions

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Speaker 3: academic institutions around the country. When we get back and

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Speaker 3: again part of this program is to one get as

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Speaker 3: many phone calls as possible from parents, grandparents, but also

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Speaker 3: from students six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty,

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Speaker 3: six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty.

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Speaker 2: There's a variety of topics.

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Speaker 3: I can ask one hundred questions everything dealing with student life.

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Speaker 3: You know, the courses that are available successive graduates. All

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Speaker 3: of that, we can we can talk about all of that,

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Speaker 3: but the most important questions of the questions that listeners

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Speaker 3: might have.

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Speaker 2: If you're a grandparent or a parent, and.

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Speaker 3: You're going to be the person who's going to be

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Speaker 3: dealing with the cost or at least part of the cost,

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Speaker 3: maybe all of the costs, Feel free if you're a student,

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Speaker 3: whether you're a freshman, sophomore, junior, and for that matter,

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Speaker 3: a senior whose application is sitting on the desk of

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Speaker 3: one of these great institutions. We love to hear from

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Speaker 3: students to be really honest with you. Over the years,

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Speaker 3: we've heard from many and some of them have been

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Speaker 3: very successful. So feel free six one, seven, two, five,

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Speaker 3: four to ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one

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Speaker 3: ten thirty. Also, the importance of this program is for

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Speaker 3: families who are dealing this process for the first time,

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Speaker 3: because it can be overwhelming. And I don't care when

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Speaker 3: you went to college, if you went to college or

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Speaker 3: didn't go to college, it still has overwhelming because even

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Speaker 3: if you went to college twenty twenty five years ago

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Speaker 3: and now you're dealing with the fas financial forms, everything

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Speaker 3: is on the table. And for students SATs. How important

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Speaker 3: are they? Essays, letters of recommendation, of endorsement, whatever you

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Speaker 3: want to call it. Again, the only question that is

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Speaker 3: a dumb question is the question you don't have the

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Speaker 3: courage to ask.

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Speaker 2: I learned that in law school. So please question was

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Speaker 2: always on the final examle of the midterm, the one

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Speaker 2: you didn't ask in class.

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Speaker 3: So take advantage of this opportunity. This is an extremely

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Speaker 3: busy time of year for both of these deans, Dean

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Speaker 3: Bill fitz Simmons of Harvard and Dean Grant Goscelin of

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Speaker 3: Boston College, and they have taken time tonight to answer

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Speaker 3: your questions. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty

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Speaker 3: six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. I think

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Speaker 3: this is a critically important program for many of you

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Speaker 3: out there.

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Speaker 2: Take advantage of the opportunity. Back on Night Side, right

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Speaker 2: after a couple of brief messages.

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Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's News Radio.

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Speaker 3: With me doctor Dean Grant Goslin of Boston College and

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Speaker 3: Dean Bill Fitzsimmons of Harvard.

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Speaker 2: I want to start just a quick question here with

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Speaker 2: both of you.

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Speaker 3: We've got to have a five minutes before the break

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Speaker 3: at the bottom of the hour, and I do want

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Speaker 3: to get to questions from from callers. But from your

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Speaker 3: experience in recent years, what part of the college applications

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Speaker 3: that you see are students not taking as serious as

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Speaker 3: as seriously as they should. Obviously they either have to take,

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Speaker 3: you know, if they want the SAT or the ACT exams,

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Speaker 3: and we can get into the differences there.

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Speaker 2: Some schools require them, some schools don't. But when you

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Speaker 2: look at the applications overall, what sort of a tip

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Speaker 2: would you give.

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Speaker 3: I'll start with Grant Goslin. What areas of the application,

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Speaker 3: because the application is multifaceted, are not as strong as

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Speaker 3: they should be generally?

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Speaker 5: Well, you know, I think at our institutions, and I

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Speaker 5: don't want to speak for Bill at Harvard, but certainly

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Speaker 5: at Boston College, I would imagine it's the same. At Harvard,

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Speaker 5: our students are very well prepared and they do take

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Speaker 5: the application process quite seriously. And you know, I think

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Speaker 5: they are working long before the deadlines arrive in helping

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Speaker 5: to prepare their applications for the institutions that they're considering.

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Speaker 5: You know, I always talk to students at around this time,

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Speaker 5: particularly seniors in high school, and I remind them that

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Speaker 5: most of their application has already been fulfilled, right, that

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Speaker 5: they've already taken the coursework that will prepare them well

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Speaker 5: for university studies. They've met people who have probably already

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Speaker 5: written their recommendations for them, They've been involved in clubs

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Speaker 5: and organizations, and really the only thing that is left

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Speaker 5: to work on is their writing statements, and most institutions

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Speaker 5: will require at least one personal statement through the common application.

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Speaker 5: Many institutions will also ask for supplemental essay prompts, and

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Speaker 5: I think those are probably the area that I would

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Speaker 5: encourage students to focus in on as closely as they can.

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Speaker 5: I think the supplemental essay prompts that many institutions offer

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Speaker 5: are often very much tied to the institution's mission, their values,

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Speaker 5: their ideals, and they are a real platform for students

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Speaker 5: to tell us what's important to them, why they align

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Speaker 5: with our institution's missions. You know, of three thousand colleges

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Speaker 5: that they could apply to, why is it that our

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Speaker 5: institutions showed up on their short list of colleges and universities?

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Speaker 5: And I do think it provides them with a real

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Speaker 5: opportunity to really be in the driver's seat of this

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Speaker 5: process and to set a narrative that will allow us

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Speaker 5: to better understand who they are and how they might

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Speaker 5: contribute to our communities.

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Speaker 3: Well, if it's Simmons with the applicants applications that you

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Speaker 3: have seen over the years, is there an area where

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Speaker 3: students could could get that edge if they made their

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Speaker 3: let us a recommendation or is it again with the

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Speaker 3: personal story. I suspect you're going to say that personal

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Speaker 3: story because I know that's so important to you.

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Speaker 4: Now that's true. I do think Grant covered it well

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Speaker 4: though I think this generation makes things seriously there. They

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Speaker 4: follow the rules, you know, not to you know, sort

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Speaker 4: of make a huge generalization. And so I don't think

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Speaker 4: there are obvious weaknesses. But one of the things that

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Speaker 4: we we want people to be happy at Harvard, we

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Speaker 4: have a we're very lucky, you have a ninety seven

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Speaker 4: ninety eight percent graduation rate. And one of the things

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Speaker 4: we ask people to do is to tell us, tell

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Speaker 4: us three things that you'd want to tell your roommate

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Speaker 4: about you and what kind of roommate you'd be. And

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Speaker 4: because we're you know, the whole idea is we're trying

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Speaker 4: to get people who will make one another better in

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Speaker 4: the rooming groups and on the teams and the dining

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Speaker 4: halls and so on. I think the other thing related

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Speaker 4: to that is that it's very easy for students to

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Speaker 4: forget what they do to help around the home. I mean,

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Speaker 4: some students have atonishing amounts of things that they do

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Speaker 4: to help. Whether it's taking care of younger siblings. I

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Speaker 4: did that, for example, and even had some others from

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Speaker 4: the neighborhood, but also you know, preparing meals.

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Speaker 1: Work.

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Speaker 4: You know, work is noble, as we would say. I

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Speaker 4: mean one of the things. We lived across the street

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Speaker 4: from our gas station and our mom and pop store.

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Speaker 4: We all worked in it. And you know, I think

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Speaker 4: the kinds of things that people do, whether they're working

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Speaker 4: in their family's gas station or whether they're you know,

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Speaker 4: sort of working. Some of them work amazing numbers of

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Speaker 4: hours a week to help the family balance the budget.

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Speaker 4: But it's it's it's I think people sometimes tend to

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Speaker 4: forget those things that aren't listed as sort of conventional things.

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Speaker 4: You know, I'm ahead of the key club, or I'm

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Speaker 4: ahead of the student council, whatever. It's it's you the

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Speaker 4: person and what you actually do to make people around

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Speaker 4: you better at twenty four hours a day.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a great synopsis for people to take

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Speaker 2: into consideration because I know your story, and I know

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Speaker 2: and i've you know, you've repeated a couple of times

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Speaker 2: over the years here that you actually stayed back one grade.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's an inspirational story because it says,

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Speaker 3: to hey, someone who stays background not only is able

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Speaker 3: to apply and be admitted to Harvard, but also to

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Speaker 3: end up spending a career at that university helping others.

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Speaker 3: That's a pretty remarkable story. And I don't mean to

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Speaker 3: force you to tell it a ken, but I just

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Speaker 3: wanted to. I just wanted to say that it would

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Speaker 3: give a lot of hope to you know, young men

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Speaker 3: or young women or boys or girls whatever age who

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Speaker 3: might have having trouble academically that if they take a

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Speaker 3: step back sometimes and applying, things.

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Speaker 2: Will work out.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, no, I'm happy to the fact is I'm

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Speaker 4: an expert on the ninth grade because I did a good.

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Speaker 4: Way to think about it, I played a little too

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Speaker 4: much hockey and did not play not pay as much

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Speaker 4: attention to academics. I did okay, but not terrifically well,

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Speaker 4: so I said, look, I'm going to try it. As

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Speaker 4: lawyers would say, you lawyers a different venue. So I

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Speaker 4: was lucky enough to get into Archershipulliums in Brain Free.

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Speaker 4: It totally changed my life. It gave me a whole

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Speaker 4: other set of opportunities to do it right. And in fact,

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Speaker 4: I'm still very very close to the school. We had

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Speaker 4: a terrific class and we've had reunions almost every five

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Speaker 4: or ten years, and we get together every year. Talk

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Speaker 4: about an institution changing your life. So I think it's

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Speaker 4: not a bad idea to think some people take it

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Speaker 4: gap year, you know, before going to college. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's this is not a race with your peers. This

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Speaker 4: is a you should be trying to make the most

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Speaker 4: of your talents, you know, whatever they are, and wherever

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Speaker 4: that goes. And it might lead to the military, it

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Speaker 4: might lead to a skilled trade position, it could lead

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Speaker 4: to any number of things that would lead to a

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Speaker 4: good life. But don't don't be afraid to step back

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Speaker 4: and do a mid course correction. Shall we say at any.

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Speaker 3: Point, well, I appreciate you on that Stow. You're the

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Speaker 3: second Archpaship Williams Goaltender the other being Steve Baker who

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Speaker 3: played at Union after Archie Bills. And they produce some

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Speaker 3: produced some really fine goaltenders and fine hockey players out

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Speaker 3: of that institution. And you and Steve Baker are of

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Speaker 3: tops in my book. That's that's for sure. Anyway, I

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Speaker 3: got to take a break. We got a news break

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Speaker 3: coming up here again. I'll give you the numbers one

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Speaker 3: more time. Six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty,

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Speaker 3: six one seven nine three one ten thirty six one

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Speaker 3: seven nine three one ten thirty and triple eight nine

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Speaker 3: to nine ten thirty. Don't mean to overwhelm you. Want

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Speaker 3: to give you some choices. We have a lot to cover.

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Speaker 3: We haven't even scratched the surface. But it's the questions

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Speaker 3: that are important now, the question that is in your mind,

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Speaker 3: that is for sure. When I get back, I want

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Speaker 3: to ask one quick question of what, at what age

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Speaker 3: should students' kids or their parents be helping them to

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Speaker 3: think about at least make them understand that there is

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Speaker 3: academics after high school for certain people. For some people,

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Speaker 3: some people after high school want to be done with academics.

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Speaker 3: That's okay too. Some of those people might eventually circle

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Speaker 3: back and apply later on to either of both of

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Speaker 3: these institutions, different paths to get you to the same place.

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Speaker 3: We're back one right after the news break, Stay with

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Speaker 3: us Bill fitz Simmons of Harvard, Grant Goslin and Boston College,

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Speaker 3: the deans of admission and financial aid at those two

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Speaker 3: great institutions.

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Speaker 1: Night side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 3: Wan to come back here to the question, I sort

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Speaker 3: of suggest that I was going to ask it, how

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Speaker 3: soon should parents or should students actually start to think

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Speaker 3: about college if the parents think that that might be

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Speaker 3: a path that their child might be interested in. Bill

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Speaker 3: fitz Simmons, let me start with you on this one, if.

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Speaker 4: I could, you know, I think it honestly depends on

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Speaker 4: the particular child, as it were. I mean, there are

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Speaker 4: you know, one could argue that it is not a

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Speaker 4: bad idea to start thinking somewhat early in high school

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Speaker 4: obviously about what curriculum path you want to take through

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Speaker 4: math or science or whatever. So that's one piece. You

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Speaker 4: want to make sure you get yourself lined up for

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Speaker 4: the kinds of courses that you would need to take

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Speaker 4: for college. But those are the same things that would

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Speaker 4: make you, you know, a good person for the military

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Speaker 4: or anything else. The preparing you making yourself better academically.

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Speaker 4: The other thing you got to be careful about, however,

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Speaker 4: I think, is not to put too much pressure on

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Speaker 4: the whole thing. And I think that's a whole other

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Speaker 4: a whole other piece. Sometimes that can be almost I

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Speaker 4: don't know, it can really turn out to be something

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Speaker 4: that can be a turnoff for students, you know, to

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Speaker 4: have too much pressure. But I think the idea of

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Speaker 4: being able to see a college and see different kinds

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Speaker 4: of colleges and envision yourself, say at a small school

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Speaker 4: in the country or let's say, you know, larger university

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Speaker 4: in a city, that kind of thing, and also not

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Speaker 4: be focused on defining success as getting into one of

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Speaker 4: two or three or four institutions when there are hundreds

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Speaker 4: and hundreds of great places that might be a great match.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you have often talked about that, and I fully

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Speaker 3: understand that great acelin what year do most parents or

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Speaker 3: students come by for a tour of how soon should

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Speaker 3: that be done or should it be put off until

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Speaker 3: they're really kind of whittled down that DC might be

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Speaker 3: the school that they're most interested in.

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Speaker 5: To be located in a part of the country with

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Speaker 5: an incredible number of just premier institutions, both public and

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Speaker 5: private institutions here and the Commonwealth, and so I think

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Speaker 5: we have the luxury of having quite a few visitors

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Speaker 5: to campus each year. We welcome about seventy thousand visitors

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Speaker 5: through the admission office doors each year, and so we

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Speaker 5: see a range in terms of when families begin this process.

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Speaker 5: I would say that historically, junior year has been the

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Speaker 5: real focus in terms of families getting out and visiting

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Speaker 5: colleges if they're able. We're seeing some of our students

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Speaker 5: begin that process a bit earlier, so we're seeing more

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Speaker 5: sophomores begin this process. I wouldn't recommend a full court,

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Speaker 5: you know, college search tour at sophomore year, but certainly

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Speaker 5: getting on a campus just to get a sense for

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Speaker 5: what it feels like and whether a student might picture

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Speaker 5: themselves there. Sometimes when you're set out as a sophomore,

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Speaker 5: it can be helpful just to listen to other students

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Speaker 5: that are on the tour, listen to the questions that

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Speaker 5: they're asking, because sometimes you know when you start out

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Speaker 5: that young students don't know where to start, and we

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Speaker 5: don't want to force students too early into this process.

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Speaker 5: But if students feel like they're excited about this expiration

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Speaker 5: process and want to get going in sophomore year, I

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Speaker 5: don't think that's too early. I do think it's important,

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Speaker 5: you know, as Bill mentioned a minute ago, you know,

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Speaker 5: not to put too much pressure on students. I think

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Speaker 5: it's really important that teenagers can be teenagers and can

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Speaker 5: experience high school for all of its value and take

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Speaker 5: time to explore various interests that they have, both academically

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Speaker 5: and socially. I always get worried when I hear students

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Speaker 5: or parents too early in the process asking for strategy

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Speaker 5: on how to get into college, or you know, what

437
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 5: sort of clubs or organizations should I join in order

438
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 5: to earn admission to your institution. And I think students,

439
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 5: really at fifteen sixteen years old, they should be just

440
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 5: trying a lot of new things and exploring interest that

441
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 5: they have. And some of those they might develop into

442
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 5: real areas of expertise, and some of them they might

443
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 5: try for a short time and move on to something else.

444
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 5: But I think there's real value in that exploration process,

445
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 5: and I wouldn't want that to get lost this process too.

446
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 3: I think Bill Fitzimmons just mentioned the idea of different

447
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 3: people in different sets of circumstances. I know that when

448
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 3: my kids were in that application process, there was a

449
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 3: lot of pressure. The kids were doing trips to Costa

450
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 3: Rica or Peru and you know, very exotic adventures when

451
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: there were people in the communities in which they lived who,

452
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 3: you know, needed help. And I think Bill Fitzsimmons probably

453
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 3: his reference to what it was like, you know, growing up,

454
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 3: you know, in a family that that had a gas station,

455
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,239
Speaker 3: and kids were expected to help help, you know, with

456
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 3: the family as well as with with neighbors. So real

457
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: quickly if I can had had the standardized tests, the

458
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 3: ACTS and the SATs, have they made a comeback in

459
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 3: recent years? I know for a while they were voluntary

460
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 3: whether students wanted to take them, And how did the

461
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 3: the standardized tests compare in importance to a to a

462
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 3: solid high school transcript?

463
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 2: Gentlemen, who would take that one for me?

464
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, we're both we're both being extremely polite here.

465
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 3: We'll have none of that, Bill Fitzimmons, you take it.

466
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,239
Speaker 4: Every piece is important, you know, its own way. But uh,

467
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 4: and I think one of the things that we have

468
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 4: to say there has been a lot of great inflation

469
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 4: in high schools, and so you know, in some respects,

470
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 4: you know, it depends on the high school. That is

471
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 4: not true. It's not true at every high school. But

472
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 4: we have gone back to standardized testing. During COVID, we

473
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 4: had four years you know, where we were test optional

474
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 4: and we've gone back, and I think one of the

475
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 4: things we would say is that that, you know, if

476
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 4: testing is really really high, along with teachers saying great

477
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 4: things and other measures of academic excellence, that that's going

478
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 4: to help you. But you know, there's no there are

479
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 4: no really definite things you can say. It's not a formula.

480
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 4: And I think sometimes people are looking, you know, for

481
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 4: og it's a certain percentage of extracurriculars, or it's a

482
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 4: certain percentage of this or that. You know, if you're

483
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 4: Yo Yoma, the cellist, who we were lucky enough to

484
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 4: get him to come to Harvard, that's that's a you know,

485
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 4: terrific thing, you know for him and classmates. And you know,

486
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 4: that's one thing. So you know, extracurricular activities there are

487
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 4: four hundred and fifty of them at Harvard, believe it

488
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 4: or not, and we are forty two intercollegiate athletic teams,

489
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 4: and so there are a lot of different ways you

490
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 4: can you know, you can fit in and also you know,

491
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 4: be able to uh sort of make yourself, you know,

492
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 4: get to know other students and and uh get around

493
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 4: and about one of the things you might want to do.

494
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 4: Uh just to envision this a little bit is to

495
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 4: go on our websites. Because what we we've all invested

496
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 4: heavily in websites because we know that not everybody can

497
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 4: afford to visit. So we have a great virtual tour

498
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 4: that will take you all over Harvard. And we also

499
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 4: have a great number, a huge number really of student

500
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 4: profiles who will tell you about what they're doing on

501
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 4: a day to day basis. And honestly, if if I

502
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 4: want to figure out exactly what is the latest at Harvard,

503
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 4: I will go on our own website because a lot,

504
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 4: so there's a lot. It'll gives you a sense that

505
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 4: there are there are myriad ways for you to sort

506
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 4: of take yourself through life, take yourself through high school,

507
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 4: get yourself through college. And there's no one single thing

508
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 4: that that as necessary for anybody to do. It's it's

509
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 4: a there's no mold you have to fit.

510
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 3: Into grit your comment on again, acts, SATSU transcripts. They

511
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 3: were all important, obviously, but have our acts and SATs

512
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 3: coming back.

513
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 2: I know that that during COVID there were a lot

514
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 2: of schools did not did not encourage students. They actually

515
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: discourage students from taking those those tests, particularly when COVID

516
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 2: was really rampant.

517
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 5: Well, I think when when COVID was happening, the real

518
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 5: challenge was really just access to test centers. To begin with,

519
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 5: testing centers were not places that were open.

520
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 4: Uh.

521
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 5: People were being very careful from a health standpoint, and

522
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 5: so it became a real practical issue that if applicants

523
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 5: didn't have exam scores, colleges still needed to find ways

524
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 5: to enroll students, and so most colleges and universities during

525
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 5: that period did move to a test optional plan. A

526
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 5: number of colleges have moved back to requiring them. I

527
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 5: would say most colleges in the United States are still

528
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 5: test optional and provide students the option of submitting or not.

529
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 5: At Boston College, we remain test optional, but we have

530
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 5: moved toward recommending that any student that has taken the

531
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 5: exam submit their scores. We have seen that there is

532
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 5: a pretty significant and pretty noticeable predictive value in test scores,

533
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 5: particularly in a highly selective environment, and so we do

534
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 5: value having those scores as one aspect of the application.

535
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,959
Speaker 5: The reason we haven't moved back fully is there are

536
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 5: still real inequities in various parts of the country and

537
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 5: around the world in terms of access to testing. The

538
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 5: state of California, for example, the entire state system became

539
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 5: test blind, and so there are test centers that have

540
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 5: closed throughout the state. And if you're a low income

541
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 5: student in a region that doesn't have access to a

542
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 5: test center, we don't want that student to not be

543
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 5: able to apply to Boston College. And so we're from

544
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 5: an access standpoint, we've maintained that. But the reality is

545
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 5: most of our applicants are able to take scores. Last year,

546
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 5: about seventy five percent of the students that we admitted

547
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 5: did submit scores at the time of applications.

548
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 3: One follow up question, you said that you encourage students

549
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 3: who take the ACTS or the SAT submit this course.

550
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 3: So if a student takes the ACT or the SAT

551
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,640
Speaker 3: and they don't get the score that they want, do

552
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 3: you know that they have chosen not to submit the

553
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 3: scores or is that they may You may request them,

554
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 3: but you don't know whether those who took the scores

555
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 3: and maybe don't want to submit them are holding them back.

556
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 4: Are you?

557
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 2: Are you aware of that? Is there any way that

558
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 2: you can track that?

559
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 4: Or no?

560
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 5: There isn't.

561
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: No.

562
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 5: No. I mean, we're encouraging students again to apply if

563
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 5: they like, but we're also transparent and again, the majority

564
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 5: of our students that have earned admission have submitted scores

565
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 5: in recent years.

566
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 3: Okay, jolenm Malim, takewa quick break here and we'll come back.

567
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 3: We'll wrap the hour and then we will reset and

568
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 3: the first hour of nightside. For the last couple of years,

569
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 3: we do brief interviews, and I think my audience has

570
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 3: been a conditioned to think that no phone calls are available.

571
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 3: Calls are available, folks six, one, seven, two, five, four,

572
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 3: ten thirty six, one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty

573
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 3: Back with the deans of Admission and Financial Aid at

574
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 3: Boston College and Harvard, Grant Gostlin from Boston College and

575
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 3: Bill fitz Simmons from Harvard. This is our nineteenth year

576
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 3: doing this program. Lots of information. We're also going to

577
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 3: talk a little bit about options for people to take

578
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 3: courses or even secure degrees without going through I guess

579
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 3: you'd call the traditional student application process. But again, the

580
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 3: best questions are the questions that are in the forefront

581
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 3: of your mind, either for yourself as a student or

582
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 3: for yourself as a parent or a grandparent. Back on

583
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 3: night Side right after this.

584
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's

585
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: news radio.

586
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 3: With me the deans of admission to Boston College and

587
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 3: Harvard University, Boston College, Grand Costlin, Harvard University.

588
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 2: Bill Fitzsimmons. We only got a couple of minutes here.

589
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 3: So we'll get calls on the other side of the

590
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 3: nine o'clock news. Some one of our listeners just said,

591
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 3: why aren't you taking phone calls? Because I think people

592
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 3: are listening at this point, So let me ask this

593
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 3: is a quick question I have. There are a lot

594
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,240
Speaker 3: of students who think it's a great idea to almost

595
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 3: apply to as many schools now that you have the

596
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 3: common app is there an ideal number of schools that

597
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 3: would reflect that a student has focused down on a

598
00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 3: few schools that he or she might be interested in,

599
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 3: And how wise is it to end up really use

600
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 3: taking advantage of common application and try to apply to

601
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 3: more than more than a handful.

602
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 4: For us last time, how about you?

603
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 5: You know, I think there's a lot of data out

604
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 5: there these days where students can find good information about

605
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 5: college selectivity, and many institute, many high schools will have tools,

606
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 5: whether they're maya learning or score or naveance or various

607
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 5: tools that their high schools will provide to give them

608
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 5: a sense of past applicants to various colleges and universities

609
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 5: and will give them information about the realistic chances at

610
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 5: those institutions. I think a well designed search these days

611
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 5: students are are applying to about eight to ten colleges

612
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 5: on average, and I think a well designed search would

613
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 5: have that list include a range of colleges. Some of

614
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 5: them might be institutions that are super selective and aspirational

615
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 5: for that student. That list should also include some institutions

616
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 5: that the student is very confident in their admissibility, and

617
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,879
Speaker 5: then some that could go either way. And I think

618
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 5: a lot of times students put extra pressure on themselves

619
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 5: by only applying to the most selective institutions, and when

620
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 5: that doesn't work out, then panic sets in and families

621
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 5: are really struggling to find a college late in the cycle,

622
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 5: and so I encourage students to be honest about their aspirations,

623
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 5: to have a balanced list, and I think a well

624
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 5: designed search doesn't need to apply to more than ten colleges.

625
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 3: Great answer, Bill fit Simmons only got about thirty seconds.

626
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 3: I assume you would agree with Grant on most of that.

627
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 4: Anything you'd like to add, absolutely. The only thing I

628
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 4: guess i'd say is make sure you have that one college.

629
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 4: You know, we in the old age, we'd call it

630
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 4: a safety school, and it's not just that you'd get in,

631
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 4: is that you would be really happy there. And I

632
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 4: think that's an important piece. I mean, college is a

633
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 4: great they have fun. I like everyone I visit. The

634
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 4: other thing is if you apply to too many places

635
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 4: and you, you know, go beyond what Grant talked about,

636
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 4: you can really get pretty confused by the time you

637
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 4: get into a make up that mind.

638
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 2: When we get back, there's some other things that you've mentioned.

639
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 2: One of the things I want to talk about is naviance,

640
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 2: and I hope that every high school guidance counselor is

641
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: aware of naviance.

642
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 3: But I also want to make sure parents and students

643
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 3: who are aware of that as well. We have several

644
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 3: other topics to hit to. I so appreciate the time

645
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 3: that both Bill Fitzsimmons and Grant Goslin are providing my

646
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 3: audience tonight, and now I hope some of you will

647
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,439
Speaker 3: take advantage of their generosity of time six one seven,

648
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 3: two four ten thirty or six one seven nine three

649
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 3: one ten thirty. We'll be back right after the nine

650
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 3: o'clock newscasts. Gentlemen, you can stretch your legs for a

651
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 3: couple of minutes and get a glass of water back

652
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 3: on night side right after this