Speaker 1: Don't want to be in a mean idiot.
Speaker 2: Good morning, Scott's Loan Show on seven hundred WLW on
Speaker 2: a beautiful Thursday morning. Of course, there is a poll
Speaker 2: cast over our area, our region of what happened with
Speaker 2: the crash of a UPS twenty nine seventy six in
Speaker 2: Louisville just two days ago. Three crew members and what
Speaker 2: I think twelve dead, three of them crew members, the
Speaker 2: rest on the ground. There's still several more missing, a
Speaker 2: bunch of people injured. To here's what we know so far.
Speaker 2: Of course, that flight to Honolulu when it went down
Speaker 2: at five point fifteen on Wednesday, it's a MD eleven
Speaker 2: and two hundred almost three hundred thousand gallons of fuel
Speaker 2: and a full of cargo bound for Honolulu, and that
Speaker 2: upon takeoff, striking a petroleum recycling center at one hundred
Speaker 2: and seventy miles an hour. And there are way more
Speaker 2: questions and answers to this point as usual, and honest,
Speaker 2: let me bring in that he's a local commercial pilot.
Speaker 2: His name is Ken Reader. Captain Ken Reader. Welcome back
Speaker 2: our aviation expert this morning on the Scott Sloan Show.
Speaker 3: How are you good?
Speaker 4: Good morning, Scott, Yeah, have said, uh, say a turn
Speaker 4: of events here, and uh yeah, I'm happy to talk
Speaker 4: about it. It's very tough.
Speaker 5: For the aviation community as a whole on this one.
Speaker 2: Let's let's set the scene here a little bit too.
Speaker 2: And you've flown in and out of Louisville many times.
Speaker 2: It's most people kind of have an idea. That's the
Speaker 2: worldwide air hub for UPS. Not just the worldwide hub,
Speaker 2: but also it's their training centers, their training facility. There's
Speaker 2: like five million square feet around there and there are
Speaker 2: two million package that's just the processing let alone, the
Speaker 2: commercial field and the private aviation area as well. So
Speaker 2: it's there's a lot going on at that field.
Speaker 4: Yes, there is. It's uh uh UPS has such a
Speaker 4: large footprint there and uh this is this is going
Speaker 4: to affect them. But you know, just the accident as
Speaker 4: a whole, an accident like this is uh throughout history.
Speaker 4: There's a few of these that happen now and then,
Speaker 4: and it affects all of the airline pilots, all of
Speaker 4: the pilot, but airline pilots specifically, because we put a
Speaker 4: lot of time into trying to mitigate train for an
Speaker 4: event like this, and some things you just can't train for.
Speaker 4: And this is one of those events that all the
Speaker 4: commercial pilots are looking at it and say, now the
Speaker 4: engine came off the aircraft and that opens up a whole.
Speaker 5: Lot of questions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, most casual passengers that fly nervous when they land
Speaker 2: because you know the ground's gonna be got penny, Oh
Speaker 2: my gosh. The worst, the most dangerous areas. Any pilot
Speaker 2: like yourself will tell you is going to be takeoff.
Speaker 2: And so let's let's go through that. During the takeoff role.
Speaker 2: What what did you see happen here?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so specifically for an airline jete, but this is
Speaker 4: small aircraft too. There is a time that right when
Speaker 4: the airplane leaves the ground for a number of seconds,
Speaker 4: maybe minutes, that there is uh, you've got a lot
Speaker 4: of risk, you know. There's we have little options as
Speaker 4: pilots on what we can potentially do to save ourselves,
Speaker 4: save the aircraft. These are rare events that I want
Speaker 4: to make sure that's clear.
Speaker 5: In this particular.
Speaker 4: Case, when an aircraft is moving down the runway, we
Speaker 4: take into a.
Speaker 5: Whole lot of thoughts.
Speaker 4: And planning into that takeoff environmental concerns, whether the aircraft weight,
Speaker 4: how much fuel we got with the length of the runway.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of factors. This is all plugged into
Speaker 4: let's call it a computer, and the system then gives
Speaker 4: us a takeoff number that we will leave the ground with,
Speaker 4: and it's an air speed, and the airspeed we call
Speaker 4: it V one. V stands for velocity and one is
Speaker 4: just that particular moment how the aircraft is set up.
Speaker 4: When the aircraft reaches V one, if we have a
Speaker 4: problem prior to V one, we can put on the brakes.
Speaker 4: All we got come to a complete stop. We'll stop
Speaker 4: on the runway and we'll figure out what the problem
Speaker 4: was after that. After V one, we're still not ready
Speaker 4: to fly yet, but we're so far down the runway
Speaker 4: that we can't stop. In that case, the air does
Speaker 4: take off, and we can take off on one engine.
Speaker 4: The air big transport category airplanes, which this is one
Speaker 4: of the aircraft can fly on one engine.
Speaker 5: It has to that much power.
Speaker 4: So this airplane had three engines, so it lost one
Speaker 4: third of its power. It should have been able to fly.
Speaker 4: And that starts to bring in all the I don't
Speaker 4: know the questions and the right there's so many people
Speaker 4: trying to come up with their own thoughts on how this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and there's you know, and that's a critical
Speaker 2: thing is V one And bringing it back to that,
Speaker 2: it's a whole bunch of factors going in the cocular.
Speaker 2: It's the way, it's the runway length, that's if the
Speaker 2: runway's wet or icy contaminated, temperature, prey. A whole bunch
Speaker 2: of factors right in what that how many knots of
Speaker 2: takeoff speed is? But as I understand it, ken once
Speaker 2: you hit that mark, that's it's either go or no go.
Speaker 2: Once you're pass V one, if you have engine fail
Speaker 2: or you power through it.
Speaker 4: Right, it is it is a go. And that what
Speaker 4: is the event that airline pilots, specifically corporate pilots, we
Speaker 4: all go through this scenario every training episode that we
Speaker 4: have throughout our career, so we all understand what is
Speaker 4: going to take to fly an airplane that you got
Speaker 4: to kind of think that the symmetrical thrust that would
Speaker 4: bring you forward is now coming off of one wing
Speaker 4: or the other and you have to compensate for that
Speaker 4: and how you do that. But like I said, we
Speaker 4: trained for that all the time. In this case, there's
Speaker 4: some factors that are unexplained. You know, the engine leaving
Speaker 4: the airplane, that's something we don't train for. We can't
Speaker 4: train for. And and actually there is an airplane that
Speaker 4: this happened to, and it was a DC ten. Happened
Speaker 4: in the late nineties or late seventies and the American
Speaker 4: Airlines Flight one ninety one. It's left engine came off
Speaker 4: the aircraft after departure out of Chicago. And the DC
Speaker 4: ten and the MD eleven are sister airplanes. The MD
Speaker 4: eleven is the more modern version of the DC ten.
Speaker 4: So scenarios like that, I'm sure we're engineered out of
Speaker 4: the airplane, so that wouldn't happen. So what happened on
Speaker 4: this one? But then the investigators they are going to
Speaker 4: take weeks and months and probably years to find out
Speaker 4: exactly what the cause was.
Speaker 2: Typically you don't see that where the engine separates from
Speaker 2: the pilon, which is what holds it to the wing,
Speaker 2: and you see some of these videos it's completely gone
Speaker 2: at that point, and that is such an extremely rare occurrence. Said,
Speaker 2: there's no way to prepare for that, because if you
Speaker 2: think about it like it's like one of the wheels
Speaker 2: of your tire. You know, your tire falling off on
Speaker 2: a car. All of a sudden you're driving in that
Speaker 2: engine's gone. It throws the way to the aircraft off.
Speaker 2: The wing starts to dip down. It's not asymmetrical, which
Speaker 2: is you know, a trade anymore. And that really is
Speaker 2: what you don't see it in the video in the seconds,
Speaker 2: but there's no way with that gone it could have
Speaker 2: got off the ground. But there's there's two other engines,
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, did water. Both those have to fail
Speaker 2: for this to occur.
Speaker 4: You know, there there is some questions out there about
Speaker 4: the right wing engine and uh there's uh we call
Speaker 4: it compressor stall. It's when the air coming into the
Speaker 4: engine with the fuel mixture is not right and the
Speaker 4: engine will it's called kind of like a backfire in
Speaker 4: a way, but it reduces power a little bit. There's
Speaker 4: some question out there. There's some flashes on video showing
Speaker 4: that maybe it was encountering that that would be that
Speaker 4: reduction and thrust that may be part of the reason
Speaker 4: that they couldn't keep the airplane flying. But that's all
Speaker 4: speculation at your point.
Speaker 2: Sure, but you think is that because with the engine
Speaker 2: leaving the left wing being separated. Does that clause like,
Speaker 2: I don't know some of the hydraulic lines and like
Speaker 2: to are they completely separate in that case, because did
Speaker 2: the one engine take the other one out?
Speaker 3: We'll cause the compressor to stall.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there there is common systems between the engines, but
Speaker 4: there are very few and you know, hydraulics and and
Speaker 4: anything that would drive that engine would be separated from
Speaker 4: the from the engine that the part of the airplane.
Speaker 4: Now that doesn't say that the debris coming off the
Speaker 4: other engine didn't cause some other related you know, emergency
Speaker 4: items or even debris going into the intake of the
Speaker 4: other engine for all we know. So there's a and
Speaker 4: and the investigators are going to figure out all of that.
Speaker 4: But you know, just to go in the investigation side
Speaker 4: of it a little bit. There's going to be a
Speaker 4: preliminary report that will come out probably in about two
Speaker 4: three weeks. This is a very notable different accident, so
Speaker 4: it may take a little bit longer, but there'll be
Speaker 4: a preliminary report that These are a few things that
Speaker 4: we already know from the black boxes. You know, if
Speaker 4: one is a voice recorder and the other one is
Speaker 4: is data aircraft set up and all those kind of
Speaker 4: things that they'll they'll compare the two. They'll learn a
Speaker 4: lot from that, and then from there it's going to
Speaker 4: be kind of a slow chug to try to narrow
Speaker 4: it down to exactly what the causes.
Speaker 2: He is, Captain can read a commercial pilot of Cincinnati.
Speaker 2: He's flown a long time.
Speaker 3: Let's put it down.
Speaker 2: Don't make you old ken me for low a long time.
Speaker 2: You've seen it all. We're talking about, of course, what
Speaker 2: happened in Louisville on Wednesday. Now the death holls up
Speaker 2: to twelve, and that number is actually fluction. I've seen
Speaker 2: different reports right around twelve. The three crew members for
Speaker 2: sure that was not survivable. And now people on ground,
Speaker 2: including a small child I guess, which is just parent's
Speaker 2: going to be unconsolable there. There's still some folks missing,
Speaker 2: and now they're in the recovery phrase of this whole thing.
Speaker 2: When it went down about five fifteen hour time on
Speaker 2: Wednesday in Louisville at Muhammad Ali, we're talking to the
Speaker 2: other element of this thing too, with a plane and
Speaker 2: speculators of what may have caused this. Because people get
Speaker 2: concerned because we have CVG here, you've got DHL and
Speaker 2: Amazon flying in and out. And you look at this
Speaker 2: field at Louisville, and if you looked at Google Earth,
Speaker 2: like I did at the moment of the crash, I noticed, Wow,
Speaker 2: the initial reports were a particular couple of roads there,
Speaker 2: and I noticed that there is a big FOURD assembly
Speaker 2: plant in that area as well. I mean, could you
Speaker 2: imagine how it hit that. But let's talk about the
Speaker 2: field design here too. And a lot of urban area
Speaker 2: airfields have things around it, obviously for expediency, but you
Speaker 2: know some in some airports you can go off the runway.
Speaker 2: Even in louisvill there's some areas where it had not
Speaker 2: been that particular. One Way seventeen right, there's fields around
Speaker 2: there too, but it's so built off with industry right
Speaker 2: up into the end of the where you would lift
Speaker 2: off or land. Would they did have a look at
Speaker 2: that and go man man in the future, maybe it's
Speaker 2: not a good idea to put these things out close
Speaker 2: to the runway.
Speaker 4: You know, everybody wants their airports is close to there
Speaker 4: where they live, the center of the city as possible.
Speaker 4: You know, look Wardy, there's Newark. There's so many airports.
Speaker 4: I could use it as an example how tight things
Speaker 4: are midway at Chicago a number of years back, Southwest
Speaker 4: went over overran the runway icy conditions and went out
Speaker 4: onto a street. So the field design is a small
Speaker 4: part of this. Louisville specifically is a well designed airport,
Speaker 4: and so it's a matter of bad luck with this one,
Speaker 4: bad luck for where the runway was or the airport
Speaker 4: was when the failure happened. And but a field design
Speaker 4: it plays a I'm going to say a lesser of
Speaker 4: a role in this particular crash.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as I look at this too, Ken, the other
Speaker 2: problem here is, and it's just speculation that the plane,
Speaker 2: allegedly this particular arcaft went for under repair for corrosion
Speaker 2: and cracks back in September. But as I understand too,
Speaker 2: that they switched the equipment out, I guess two hours before.
Speaker 3: Do you know what the timeline is for that? Here?
Speaker 4: You know, and I know the airplane was delayed on
Speaker 4: the ground for about two hours for a left engine
Speaker 4: issue unspecified at this point. Is so what the issue is?
Speaker 4: I will say this though you and I talked about
Speaker 4: this whole few years back when we were talking about
Speaker 4: the life of an aircraft generally, cargo carrying aircraft are
Speaker 4: used towards the end of the life of the equipment.
Speaker 4: You know, this particular airplane was four years old. It
Speaker 4: came from another airline and was converted into a freighter
Speaker 4: in two thousand and six. So the airplane, a thirty
Speaker 4: four year old airplane is not considered super old. But
Speaker 4: it goes back to the cycles. Like we spoke about
Speaker 4: years back, how many cycles does the airplane have on it,
Speaker 4: you know, how many times does the airplane flight, and
Speaker 4: what other corrosion or issues are on there. In this
Speaker 4: particular case, I believe that there was a catastrophic failure
Speaker 4: of the engine itself. Whether it blew up, which is
Speaker 4: very rare, but something caused it to explode off of
Speaker 4: the wing you know, the mounts that hold the wings.
Speaker 4: That that's something that would be less like to fail.
Speaker 4: In this case, I believe it was more of a
Speaker 4: catastrophic failure.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, because the latest on this is this plane,
Speaker 2: this particular aircraft flew to San Antonio on September third
Speaker 2: and was there til October eighteenth for maintenance issues. A
Speaker 2: contractor doesn't work on the MD eleven fleet there in
Speaker 2: San Antonio, so it had been down for service. They
Speaker 2: noticed a crack string under the center wing of the
Speaker 2: upper fuel tank, but that's not indicative that, you know,
Speaker 2: related to the engine falling off in this case. Is
Speaker 2: that something that could have been done, or maybe they
Speaker 2: took the engine offering maintenance it wasn't put back on properly.
Speaker 3: Is that a possibility here?
Speaker 4: That could be a possibility, And the investigators are probably
Speaker 4: determined that if they haven't already right away, so that'll
Speaker 4: come quick.
Speaker 5: But if you.
Speaker 4: Remember the Concord crash back in the nineties, Concord was
Speaker 4: taken off out of heat throw. There was debris on
Speaker 4: the runway. They cut the tire, the debris went up
Speaker 4: into the fuel tank and all the fuel leaking out
Speaker 4: the air planting flu for about I want to say,
Speaker 4: about three minutes. It's been a long time since I've
Speaker 4: looked at it, but at about ten miles and while
Speaker 4: they were trying to fix the issue, they couldn't. It
Speaker 4: resulted in a crash. This particular crash could be related
Speaker 4: to something that has nothing to do with the maintenance
Speaker 4: on the airplane.
Speaker 6: It could be.
Speaker 4: Something unrelated on the runway. In that Concord crash, they
Speaker 4: ended up narrowing it down to the aircraft that had
Speaker 4: a piece of metals come off the aircraft and land
Speaker 4: on the runway. And that's what the attire whatever.
Speaker 2: That's incredible that something like that could take an engine out,
Speaker 2: I mean literally make it fall off.
Speaker 7: That's you. You hear that.
Speaker 2: It doesn't really make me want to fly, but you know,
Speaker 2: we have tens of thousands of flights at any one time,
Speaker 2: and this is a very very rare occurrence.
Speaker 3: What happened here. It just happened to be with a.
Speaker 2: Fully loaded cargo aircraft striking the end of the runway
Speaker 2: and a precise location that involved a recycling fuel recycling area,
Speaker 2: and the you know what, roughly what is that one
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy miles an hour roughly a takeoff that's
Speaker 2: going to be catastrophic.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, hundred and eighty six went up to about
Speaker 4: one hundred and seventy five feet in the air, and
Speaker 4: you can tell the pilots were working everything they could
Speaker 4: to try to make the slide. This particular aircraft, the
Speaker 4: NBA eleven, it's only operated by three cargo carriers in
Speaker 4: the US, set x ups and I believe it's Gemini
Speaker 4: and other than that, it's been retired from around the world.
Speaker 4: The airplane is known as a fast airplane, but it's
Speaker 4: also known to have a history of crashes through its
Speaker 4: lifetime and in the different models. The DC ten before
Speaker 4: runner to the NBA eleven, which stayed engineering out all
Speaker 4: the bad habits. Shall I say about the previous airplane,
Speaker 4: But yes, this is a very rare occurrence, and it
Speaker 4: has stirred up all the pilots in the business. I mean,
Speaker 4: we're all talking about it, and you know, I would
Speaker 4: that should have said, it's gonna be a lot of
Speaker 4: us going back to the books and saying, okay, so
Speaker 4: what happens if that were to happen to me? How
Speaker 4: am I going to get out of that?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Is it? You meant one?
Speaker 2: Which is the speed you have to get to be airborne?
Speaker 2: And so either before that you can aboard, after you can't.
Speaker 2: Is there been cases where you're able to successfully aboard
Speaker 2: after you hit that speed?
Speaker 8: You know?
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, there are. There's there's at the end of
Speaker 4: the runway, there's an emat, generally a surface of like
Speaker 4: foam or soft material that brings the airplane to a stop. Yes,
Speaker 4: there are cases that it has worked in this particular case.
Speaker 4: I believe their takeoff weight is probably somewhere over five
Speaker 4: hundred thousand pounds.
Speaker 5: You know, when you as.
Speaker 4: A pilot, when we put the brakes on full max braking,
Speaker 4: there's some limitations on that. So eventually we are going
Speaker 4: to use up because we're moving so fast and so heavy,
Speaker 4: We're going to use all the breaking material. The brakes
Speaker 4: will then fail because there's nothing left. And now now
Speaker 4: I'm in a really bad spot. Now I'm a rolling,
Speaker 4: you know, shopping cart with no brakes. So there's limits
Speaker 4: on our takeoff configuration and performance because the engineering says
Speaker 4: we can't do that. So after V one, yes, we are.
Speaker 5: It's very rare.
Speaker 4: That I know of somebody that has said I'm gonna
Speaker 4: stop now. Yeah, if I can't, if I don't think
Speaker 4: the airplane's gonna fly, I'm gonna I'm gonna take that
Speaker 4: chance and and bring the airplane to a stop best
Speaker 4: way I can, because if it doesn't fly, there's I
Speaker 4: know the answer to the problem right.
Speaker 2: Right, And there's not much room at the end of
Speaker 2: the runway either. You're looking at buildings coming at you
Speaker 2: as opposed to maybe a field in some trees and
Speaker 2: then buildings that probably.
Speaker 3: Factors as well.
Speaker 5: Yeah, very much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, unfortunate.
Speaker 2: All right, So there's the timeline, you know what, the
Speaker 2: very latest here with this crash in Louisville. It's interesting
Speaker 2: here because theres a lot of speculation that I love
Speaker 2: having you on because you're informed relatively and speculation, and
Speaker 2: that is Captain Ken Reader, commercial pilot based out of Cincinnati,
Speaker 2: our aviation expert on the Scots Slump Show.
Speaker 3: Can all the best.
Speaker 4: Yeah, my prayers go out to the family as the
Speaker 4: end of the flying community as a whole.
Speaker 5: And thanks for having me on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, anytime. All right.
Speaker 2: Hopefully we can talk when times are better as opposed
Speaker 2: to these kind of tragedies right here. But you know, again,
Speaker 2: for those here, this has got Matt. I'm never gonna
Speaker 2: it's so rare for things like this to happen. Typically
Speaker 2: it's more private aviation, you know, the private planes as
Speaker 2: opposed to commercial. But you got a lot of cargo
Speaker 2: flying around too, and you don't really hear about these.
Speaker 2: It probably seems like at any one time, especially here
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati, there's more cargo flying around than passenger. And
Speaker 2: yet you know, we don't hear about these things happening,
Speaker 2: Oh thank god. But when they do, of course it's
Speaker 2: huge news. It wasn't that long ago, certainly within my lifetime,
Speaker 2: where these things were kind of frequent, I believe it
Speaker 2: or not, and now it's pretty rare, extremely rare for
Speaker 2: that matter. Let me get a news update in a
Speaker 2: little reaction to the election from Tuesday and what it
Speaker 2: all means. And I've been thinking on this is good,
Speaker 2: just some good toilet time for me to get some
Speaker 2: thoughts together. We'll do that at nine thirty five, right
Speaker 2: after news sol only here on seven hundred WWT. Scott's
Speaker 2: flowing back on seven hundred WLW. Thanks to you can
Speaker 2: reader for jumping on this morning. Chris, you're flying out today,
Speaker 2: flying right. You know, we've got the delays because of
Speaker 2: the government shut down which continues, and no after thirty
Speaker 2: days we start to feel the squeeze a little bit more.
Speaker 2: We'll see if there's an end in sight. Who knows,
Speaker 2: who knows how long they're going to drag this nonsense out.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you, as a smart politician, you may hate
Speaker 2: the hell out of her, but you got to respect
Speaker 2: her game. That would be Nancy Pelosi. Nancy Pelosi announcing
Speaker 2: her retirement, and say what you will about the woman,
Speaker 2: but she knows when to get off a sinking ship.
Speaker 2: It's over first establishment Democrats and Republicans, so that it's
Speaker 2: kind of over right now. I want to think it's
Speaker 2: I was planning this already, but with the election of
Speaker 2: zohanmandamia New York, I can see the writing.
Speaker 3: On the wall.
Speaker 2: And he won the mayoral races, you know, with just
Speaker 2: over fifty percent of the vote.
Speaker 3: Quomo got forty two.
Speaker 2: Curtis Leewag got what seven percent, So even put those
Speaker 2: two together, you still lose twice as many voters turned
Speaker 2: out than the last mayor line in New York City.
Speaker 2: So I often don't care about New York. I care
Speaker 2: about Ohio, I care about Kentuck, I care about Indiana.
Speaker 2: But it's going to affect us here in some way,
Speaker 2: shape or form at some point.
Speaker 3: And I know too.
Speaker 2: It's just like listening a little bit to Willie and
Speaker 2: some of the other conservative hosts and all across the landscape.
Speaker 2: It's you know, people that some people are like beside
Speaker 2: themselves over what happened in New York City is grave concern,
Speaker 2: especially with this win because a Marxist, was a lot
Speaker 2: of communists elected mayor. And now I heard things about
Speaker 2: stupid voters, and you know, people just want free stuff
Speaker 2: and other tantrums, and you know, I think you ignore
Speaker 2: that at your peril. It's the same histronics after Trump
Speaker 2: want it's not the fall of the voters. Everyone Hillary
Speaker 2: lost and oh my god, it's stupid voters and how
Speaker 2: could you vote. It's the fall of Democrats and Republicans
Speaker 2: for not offering a better alternative. Trump was a better
Speaker 2: alternative than Hillary Clinton. We got tired of Trump, but
Speaker 2: elected Biden. Biden was worst. You got Trump again, so
Speaker 2: h and mendam me say what you will about He's
Speaker 2: the anti Trump, right, He's a progressive Trump, he's a populist.
Speaker 2: He use social media and had a great ground game
Speaker 2: to win. He got what a million vote went over
Speaker 2: a million votes are crying out loud and double the
Speaker 2: turnout for that matter. And you know, you may despise
Speaker 2: and hate and disagree vehemently, as I do with what
Speaker 2: he's about, but he's a force and you've got to
Speaker 2: respect and fear that. So you know, And I was
Speaker 2: watching something yesterday, I reading something, and it's something big
Speaker 2: it's it's like Trump did right. He turned out people
Speaker 2: who generally don't vote, they call him low propensity voters,
Speaker 2: and he turned out people under the age of thirty.
Speaker 2: We was talking about, oh the young vote, the young vote, vote, vote,
Speaker 2: vote right, and they never turn out. You got them
Speaker 2: to turn out, and he got a lot of immigrants
Speaker 2: to turn out. And I'm guessing that's probably because of
Speaker 2: the fear in the backlash immigration and ice and a
Speaker 2: lot of young professionals are the other things. Well, yeah,
Speaker 2: they're all freeloaders and we's okay, but what about all
Speaker 2: the young professionals. You know, I came up during a
Speaker 2: time when it was a Reagan Revolution, and then you
Speaker 2: had a lot of young professionals discover conservatism in Reagan.
Speaker 2: And now here you are a couple generations later, and
Speaker 2: you've got young professionals who don't see upward mobility. You know,
Speaker 2: we are sold trickle down economics and all that stuff.
Speaker 3: How did that work? Eh?
Speaker 2: But upward mobility in their future, they don't see it.
Speaker 2: These are people that have college education, they have student loans.
Speaker 2: They see rampant inflation, they see the outrageous cost of living.
Speaker 2: I think, what's set people over the edge was just
Speaker 2: a few months ago. The meme going around was, there's
Speaker 2: just like an average men thirty dollars sandwich in New York.
Speaker 2: We're not talking like kats Is Deli or something like that.
Speaker 2: We're talking just a regular bodega sand would you're like
Speaker 2: thirty dollars.
Speaker 3: It's outrageous.
Speaker 2: The cost of living there has always been outrageous, even
Speaker 2: more outrageous today. And you know, you have people in
Speaker 2: their thirties forties with roommates, you have healthcare issues, you
Speaker 2: have all that weighing down and even so, you know,
Speaker 2: it's honestly just a bunch of freeloaders and dead beats.
Speaker 2: And I get it. There's an appeal to that too,
Speaker 2: as having someone else pay for what I want. And
Speaker 2: he comes out with free buses and free childcare, and
Speaker 2: we're gonna freeze the damn right rents too. Damn how
Speaker 2: we're gonna freeze the rent It's it's the mirror. It's
Speaker 2: the opposite, the other side of the coin of Trump's
Speaker 2: promised to end inflation, bring back manufacturing through tariffs, and
Speaker 2: make government more efficient. He just sell on the socialist
Speaker 2: side of populism is what this is and you know,
Speaker 2: as someone certainly who leans a lot more right than left,
Speaker 2: and someone who is a he understands capitalism and free
Speaker 2: and open markets and libertarianism.
Speaker 3: You know what you got.
Speaker 2: Trump's got to do something here otherwise, and I think
Speaker 2: you probably are because we live in a copycat world.
Speaker 2: You know, anytime you have something successful, there's a rush
Speaker 2: to copy it, and it's never usually as good as
Speaker 2: the original. But in this case, you're gonna have a
Speaker 2: bunch of mom donnies in places like Frisco in LA
Speaker 2: and Chicago and Seattle, and God knows right, because there's
Speaker 2: gonna go out. It worked in New York, I'll try
Speaker 2: it here. And that's where you should be a little
Speaker 2: concerned if you live in southwest Ohio and Indiana and Kentucky.
Speaker 2: And now's the time to focus on the commony, Okay,
Speaker 2: not Gaza, not Greenland, not not Ukraine. He's off the
Speaker 2: national guarden ice. This is what you got to focus on.
Speaker 2: And I fully I understand because I have kids that
Speaker 2: are thirty years older, under the age of thirty and
Speaker 2: right around that age, and they are completely disconnected from
Speaker 2: the economy, like they don't.
Speaker 3: Know that they're scared to death.
Speaker 2: And in the long run, you know, I see what
Speaker 2: the promises are, and it's easy to make fun of
Speaker 2: the free buses and free carre and we know it's
Speaker 2: how's that gonna end? It's not gonna end well, because
Speaker 2: you know, we've seen this before. We've heard that before.
Speaker 2: If you're old or older, you may recall like the
Speaker 2: nineteen seventies in New York and I was just a
Speaker 2: baby then, but having grown up in that state anyway,
Speaker 2: on the other side of it, you kind of could
Speaker 2: see the effects of that.
Speaker 3: I mean kind of knew. You know, at that age
Speaker 3: you have a sense that something's not quite right.
Speaker 2: And I just remember as a kid, like when I
Speaker 2: watch the Yankees or something like that, they show shots
Speaker 2: of the Bronx burning and things like that, and you
Speaker 2: know it sticks with you. And so the idea that
Speaker 2: he's going to freeze rent, I was like, Okay, it
Speaker 2: sounds great because I can't afford rent anymore and we're
Speaker 2: going to force rent control policies and okay, well I'm
Speaker 2: a landlord now and I'm old, so I like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: first thing I see is that am I going to
Speaker 2: put money back into those properties? No operating costs are
Speaker 2: going to go up. I mean, let's face it, inflation
Speaker 2: is bad taxes, property taxes, Like if we did, then Ohio,
Speaker 2: I'm looking to wait, I've got all these proper taxes
Speaker 2: that are going up. I've got escalating energy costs and
Speaker 2: things I have to pay for, the cost of goods
Speaker 2: and materials are going up through the roof. That now
Speaker 2: cuts into mind. I can't raise the rent in order
Speaker 2: to make a profit in order to cover that.
Speaker 3: And so what do I do? I guess I could
Speaker 3: sell the property.
Speaker 2: But if you do that, you're going to have everyone
Speaker 2: selling their property, which makes the property valuable. So what
Speaker 2: happened in the seventies when they did this is landlords
Speaker 2: just simply abandoned their properties. They couldn't afford to maintain them.
Speaker 2: They're getting nailed by the health department because you know, hey, hey,
Speaker 2: I need a new stove. Okay, well what's that five
Speaker 2: hundred dollars? I'm making maybe fifty bucks a month because
Speaker 2: of the frozen rent now after a period of time,
Speaker 2: so you know what, you're not getting a new stove.
Speaker 2: And they complained to just and people literally and then
Speaker 2: at one point in the seventies they were doing. They're
Speaker 2: hiring arsonists, like the best job in New York was
Speaker 2: a professional arsonist. So you burn the building down, get
Speaker 2: the insurance money. And so that's why you saw the
Speaker 2: Bronx burning literally is because landlords are paying people going,
Speaker 2: I can't afford because of frozen rent, I can't afford
Speaker 2: to have this property anymore. I can't sell it because
Speaker 2: there's no demand for it. No one's going to buy this,
Speaker 2: and so they let the match And what does that
Speaker 2: do to the quality nambers? The same people you're trying
Speaker 2: to help and lift up out of poverty, you're actually
Speaker 2: hurting because the tax base goes away, and now you've
Speaker 2: got blight. And that of course lots to the Renaissance
Speaker 2: with Juliani and that you know, times squares and mass
Speaker 2: Its all a mess, and they turn the thing around.
Speaker 2: In addition, I mean now you have, instead of more
Speaker 2: property which makes her cheaper, you have less property. You're
Speaker 2: not incentivizing people to invest in New York City. You're
Speaker 2: disincentivizing them. And when landlers can't charge market rate, building
Speaker 2: new rental housing becomes less profitable. It's just it's simply
Speaker 2: not going to happen. It's basic economics, one on one.
Speaker 2: But if you're around thirty and you're desperate and you
Speaker 2: simply can't afford anything, I understand the everyone wants something
Speaker 2: for nothing. We're nation of all of us. I don't
Speaker 2: care if you're on the right or the left, young, old,
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. We all want stuff and we want someone
Speaker 2: else to pay for it. Right, I mean, I get
Speaker 2: a mortgage production. If you have a house, I do too, Right,
Speaker 2: I get a break for owning this thing. Should you? Well,
Speaker 2: it's all debtal. But everyone has some sort of subsidy
Speaker 2: in their life. And it's not a subsidy when you're
Speaker 2: getting it. It's always a subsidy when someone else is
Speaker 2: getting it, which is part of the problem. And that's
Speaker 2: just the housing thing, you know, talking about what was
Speaker 2: the other thing? At grocery stores, I don't know how
Speaker 2: you have a government run grocery store be successful. The
Speaker 2: only one I can think of would be if you're
Speaker 2: on a military base, we have stores.
Speaker 3: The FED I.
Speaker 2: Forget what it's called not I want to say fed X.
Speaker 2: It's not fed AX, it's fed something fat. Anyway, Essentially
Speaker 2: there there you can go buy. You have to you know,
Speaker 2: prove that you're a member of the military, active military,
Speaker 2: and you get stuff extremely cheap. I mean, the prices
Speaker 2: are insanely good. But because it's run by the government,
Speaker 2: there's no profit incentive, and so you're not going to
Speaker 2: get you're not going to innovate. You operate at a loss.
Speaker 2: And that's just you know, for the military. And I
Speaker 2: get why, because then we should do that. I'm not
Speaker 2: knocking it having some of the other p x's and
Speaker 2: things like that. But if you rose that, if you
Speaker 2: if you launched that in a city like the sides
Speaker 2: of New York and brought that up to scale, how
Speaker 2: many millions, if not billions of dollars would you lose
Speaker 2: over the course. It's just it's insane to think that
Speaker 2: a government run store can come in and offer people
Speaker 2: food and medicine and everything at cost. Someone's got to
Speaker 2: pay for that. Same with you know, free buses. I
Speaker 2: don't if you just simply have buses open to everybody
Speaker 2: and you have a homeless population New York, won't the
Speaker 2: homeless people just go on the bus?
Speaker 3: I mean, we kind of saw that.
Speaker 2: And since he with the with the street car or
Speaker 2: some degree, you're talking about the largest public transpation system
Speaker 2: in the United States, public transportation to the buses and subways.
Speaker 2: If you're gonna make that free, that could be a problem,
Speaker 2: but not as much as the rent thing, because that
Speaker 2: will absolutely decimate it. But the problem is that these
Speaker 2: are lagging indicators. If you do that, now, it's gonna
Speaker 2: take a while for the wheels to fall off that cart.
Speaker 2: It's not gonna happen. Okay, he's gonna do this, and
Speaker 2: it's gonna it's gonna collapse.
Speaker 6: It's not.
Speaker 2: It's gonna take a few years. But by then that
Speaker 2: pendulum is already in motion. And how to stop it
Speaker 2: and bring it back the other way. It's gonna it's
Speaker 2: gonna cost a fortune, you know, if somebody voted for him,
Speaker 2: I mean the long term. I look at this guy,
Speaker 2: it's just it doesn't work. His models don't work. But
Speaker 2: he's promising these grandiose things. As I said, my observation
Speaker 2: is a casual political observers. He's like the anti Trump.
Speaker 2: I mean, look at all those promises. Trump, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: end the war on day one. Well, here we are
Speaker 2: over a year back in and we still have the
Speaker 2: Ukraine War going on. And he threw a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff at the wall, and I think we all knew
Speaker 2: his voters going, you know, if you could do a
Speaker 2: few of these things, great, some of the bigger ones
Speaker 2: like the terriffs and the economy and many you're gonna
Speaker 2: bring manufacturing back in less than four years? Probably not,
Speaker 2: But we just want some hope, that's all. And I
Speaker 2: think that's what Mandammi's offering. He's open and offering people hope.
Speaker 2: You don't know, we're not thinking through going could.
Speaker 3: You really do all this? Can you really end the
Speaker 3: war on day one?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Well, can he offer? Can he freeze rent? There's also
Speaker 2: a saw this too, the rent control policies there is
Speaker 2: they have like a nine or ten member Rent Guidelines board.
Speaker 2: He appoints those people. That's really the only thing to control.
Speaker 2: That's the one I like if there's a good shot
Speaker 2: at it, the freezing the rent. He be able to
Speaker 2: pull that one off. But yeah, some of the other stuff,
Speaker 2: the buses and the MC it's all controlled by the state,
Speaker 2: so he doesn't have a bigger hand in that. But again,
Speaker 2: it's that populous thing. I'm gonna do all this stuff
Speaker 2: and you're not gonna pay for things. It's gonna be great,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be nervana just to let me and then
Speaker 2: you have to govern and we'll see if people don't
Speaker 2: go back the other way. So you know, if you're
Speaker 2: worried about this, you heard about this and you're flipping
Speaker 2: out because Okay, that's New York City and then it's
Speaker 2: going to be in Chicago, and that's going to be
Speaker 2: in LA and that's going to come to Frisco, and
Speaker 2: then it's going to come to Cincinnati. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: sure you're going to see some copycats, but I'm not
Speaker 2: sure this is really what's we need.
Speaker 3: Less regulation is what we need. That's the problem.
Speaker 2: Subsidy in too much government is causing everything to be
Speaker 2: too damn expensive. And we also have to get back
Speaker 2: to tying. I don't know how we do this with
Speaker 2: corporate America and you know public company, publicly traded companies
Speaker 2: of course, and of course all the people throwing their
Speaker 2: money and they had and private equity. And that is
Speaker 2: GDP has to keep up with wages. There was one
Speaker 2: time in America where GDP and wages were connected as
Speaker 2: our gross dometic product. And that means companies in our money,
Speaker 2: the workers made more money, and that hasn't been true
Speaker 2: since the nineteen eighties. And now this is why we
Speaker 2: are where we are, and that's very true. How do
Speaker 2: you get back to do them paying a market rate
Speaker 2: that's fair and equitable for workers. And that's not socialism
Speaker 2: or Marxism or anything. That's just you know, people can't
Speaker 2: afford the product they're making or the service they're providing.
Speaker 2: That is a problem for economy and it's been going
Speaker 2: down this way for a long time. And we're seeing
Speaker 2: the fruits of that. And I think regulation all that
Speaker 2: stuff that we talked about, and certainly those are supposed
Speaker 2: to do that, and it didn't that taking all those
Speaker 2: hamstrings away and all those roadblocks and obstacles is going
Speaker 2: to make the economy hum But unfortunately we have the
Speaker 2: current system that's set up that encourages more of those things.
Speaker 2: Despite the fact how well we talk about getting rid
Speaker 2: of them. Oh, we have just as many, maybe different
Speaker 2: roadblocks getting where we are. One of those right now
Speaker 2: is the government shutdown at this point where you have
Speaker 2: Trump saying, well, and now we got to end the filibuster,
Speaker 2: and at some point somebody's got to just go look
Speaker 2: we got to figure this thing out. We've got to
Speaker 2: get this thing done and move on and negotiate healthcare
Speaker 2: whatever the hell it is. But again, that's just more subsidy.
Speaker 2: No one has a solution of the healthcare crisis, and
Speaker 2: more of the same, which is why the more desperate,
Speaker 2: the more things like that happen. That's why people are
Speaker 2: attracted to Mandami or Trump for that matter. It's going
Speaker 2: to be more populist kind of governance. Now, saying and
Speaker 2: governing are two different things. So we'll see what happens.
Speaker 2: But Nancy Pelosi today's smartest person in the room because
Speaker 2: she's getting off that sink and ship she sees what's
Speaker 2: coming goes. I'm done. I want no part of this.
Speaker 2: It's over for establishment politics. Good luck with that, Good
Speaker 2: luck with that. I'll get a news update in in
Speaker 2: just about six seven minutes here on the Scot Sloane
Speaker 2: Show on seven under WW. One of the big things
Speaker 2: that came out the election, in addition to city council
Speaker 2: here in Cincinnati staying all Democrat charter rights did not
Speaker 2: take a bite at all out of things. And I
Speaker 2: know maybe some men DOMI parallels to that. I'm not
Speaker 2: quite sure in one of the issues. And I had
Speaker 2: Sean Murphy on CPS Superintendent on yesterday's show at this time,
Speaker 2: talking about the success they had with the levy, which
Speaker 2: it passed, but not only just passed, it passed overwhelmingly
Speaker 2: because voters I don't live in Cincinnati may not either,
Speaker 2: but they see progress being made, they see things change,
Speaker 2: and she made a good case for that as to
Speaker 2: why CPS deserved the money yesterday. I give her credit
Speaker 2: at Tarnowski's here the study in school choice, it's another
Speaker 2: big issue going on.
Speaker 3: We do it in Ohio.
Speaker 2: There's a problem though, because as you know, we have
Speaker 2: school choice, but the funding has always been the issue.
Speaker 2: You know, property taxes, and we're seeing the property taxes
Speaker 2: go through the roof and that's also part of the
Speaker 2: problems I mentioned. But school choice is starting to take
Speaker 2: a root in America, and I think these things are
Speaker 2: related to because you look at CPS and it used
Speaker 2: to be Okay, here's your building, here's when you go.
Speaker 2: And now you know, we've added Montosori centers that are
Speaker 2: bringing back up shop in schools and things like. There's
Speaker 2: alternatives to you can stay in CPS but find the
Speaker 2: school that's right for your child.
Speaker 3: That's really not that wouldn't happen it wasn't for school choice.
Speaker 3: I don't think.
Speaker 2: I mean, it seems like we're moving that direction. But
Speaker 2: the school choicing is, hey, we better sharpened. And again,
Speaker 2: competition is what we're talking about here. Mondami doesn't want that,
Speaker 2: but competition is making the public schools, like CPS public
Speaker 2: schools better. It's taken a long time. You're also fighting
Speaker 2: a horrific abbsence rate and a whole bunch of other
Speaker 2: problems that are unique to urban schools for sure. But
Speaker 2: voters said, hey, you know what you're making move in
Speaker 2: the right direction. I'll give you credit. We'll give you
Speaker 2: some more money renew the level as a renewal on
Speaker 2: top of it, wasn't like Lakota that was asking for
Speaker 2: half a billion dollars. Nonetheless, school choice, we'll talk about
Speaker 2: that coming up with Ed Hearnowski next on the show,
Speaker 2: Why it's spreading and why it's good for schools overall
Speaker 2: when it comes to competition. Next on the Scotts Loan Show,
Speaker 2: I'm the Home of the Best Bengals coverage off this week.
Speaker 2: Fortunately during on offic hopefully no one gets hurt and
Speaker 2: we don't lose. Can the defense give up less than
Speaker 2: one hundred yards total offense? How about one thousand yards
Speaker 2: total offense in a bye week? We need a break?
Speaker 2: I think we do Scott's loan seven hundred WW since
Speaker 2: now do.
Speaker 1: You want to be an American?
Speaker 3: Slowly back on seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 9: Something we do in Ohio is going into a heated
Speaker 9: nationwide showdown, if you want to call it that, over
Speaker 9: whether taxpayer dollars should follow students right, portable funding, backpack funding,
Speaker 9: you want to call this, So we called it here
Speaker 9: in Ohio.
Speaker 2: The concerns are about budgets, accountability, curriculum, and it seems
Speaker 2: like school choice is becoming universal so so far now
Speaker 2: six new states have added that choice nineteen overall, including
Speaker 2: the Buckeye State, and only two of the new programs
Speaker 2: have full funding guarantees. That's a rub so here in
Speaker 2: Ohio to bring up to speed. If you're aware of this,
Speaker 2: or maybe you're Kentucky and the Inn or somewhere else,
Speaker 2: we did universal school choice for K through twelve. It's
Speaker 2: sort of with near universal access. The problem is we
Speaker 2: don't have universal funding, and that is the issue We
Speaker 2: spend over a billion dollars in private school vouchers this
Speaker 2: year and joining the show, he broke this down with
Speaker 2: the future where it's going is Ed Tarnowski. He is
Speaker 2: with ED Choice, where he's a policy and advocacy director.
Speaker 5: Ed.
Speaker 3: Welcome, Ario, Thanks.
Speaker 1: For having me on.
Speaker 6: I'm doing very well.
Speaker 5: How about you.
Speaker 3: I'm doing fine.
Speaker 2: This has been a battle in Ohio for a long
Speaker 2: long time, I mean decades that the state Supreme Court
Speaker 2: found it unconstitutional and legislature pretty much ignored this whole thing.
Speaker 2: We moved to the school funding choice, where it's universal,
Speaker 2: it's backpack, take your money, it's out, you're eligible, you
Speaker 2: can go where you want to go. But we still
Speaker 2: have the funding question, which looms it's head during elections
Speaker 2: like we're having and where you know some areas are
Speaker 2: are taking millage off their levees and saying, well, we're
Speaker 2: going to replace that with a a one percent income tax.
Speaker 2: Let's say a lot of areas are doing that now
Speaker 2: because the funding model is broken. Is that true elsewhere
Speaker 2: or is that because we're kind of a trend sitter
Speaker 2: here in Ohio on this we're one of the first
Speaker 2: states to do it, or one of a painful of full
Speaker 2: states to do it, but the funding question is the
Speaker 2: big outlier here.
Speaker 6: M hm. Well, I think one of the things that
Speaker 6: that's part Ohio's bastor programs from a lot of the
Speaker 6: other school choice starts from the country is well one.
Speaker 6: It still is about your and most states are moving
Speaker 6: toward education sagess accounts, giving families more flexibility and how
Speaker 6: funs can be fun can be spend. But since Ohio
Speaker 6: has had such a long history of school choice, the
Speaker 6: legists are opted for just expanding existing programs instead of
Speaker 6: creating a new one. But we were hoping to see
Speaker 6: Ohio move toward more flexible system in the future, where
Speaker 6: you know, families con centered on things that in far
Speaker 6: school tuition, like tutoring, therapies, curriculum, things of that nature.
Speaker 6: When it comes to the funding, Ohios, the program that
Speaker 6: has universal ability where all families can apply, still still
Speaker 6: fall short on funding and it's actually tiered by my income.
Speaker 6: You will get more, you will get less money for
Speaker 6: vouchers the more the more income, the higher your family's
Speaker 6: income is. And one of the reasons is so problematic
Speaker 6: is because it really falls short of creating maximizing a
Speaker 6: robust martiplace of education. We want to see you know,
Speaker 6: we're not means testing for your local district school for example,
Speaker 6: NOLLA and whatever experien conversation. If you can, if your
Speaker 6: kids can attend your local district school.
Speaker 7: So why are we doing this?
Speaker 6: The school choice should really be on the same footing.
Speaker 6: It's just a way of rethinking public education.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and overall the argument has been, well, this is
Speaker 2: public money and you're destroying public schools and you're given
Speaker 2: the private enterprise who can do what? And there's no
Speaker 2: accountability here whatsoever. But where's the accountability that's led to
Speaker 2: the state of public schools right now? Where we're celebrating, Hey,
Speaker 2: we're now we have a D average. Now we've got
Speaker 2: a D on our state report card for example, and wow,
Speaker 2: that's the first time we've been out of f in
Speaker 2: twenty years. And we're now celebrating this and we've got momentum.
Speaker 2: And then they change the standards for measuring how the
Speaker 2: schools are with report cards and we do this all
Speaker 2: over again. I think people are wise to it. I
Speaker 2: don't understand how that destroyed. How does competition destroy anything?
Speaker 2: Competition makes us better. That's a problem with anything where
Speaker 2: there's no cop healthcare is a great example of that.
Speaker 6: Oh absolutely. And what we're seeing is school choice is
Speaker 6: introducing a whole new type of accountability into American's education
Speaker 6: system that for so long we haven't had because you know,
Speaker 6: the parents or kids are unsatisfied that they're not being
Speaker 6: served properly by their school. When it comes to private
Speaker 6: school choice, parents can just walk away. And if no
Speaker 6: times walk away, right, and the public school system is
Speaker 6: it us parents walk away or or they're struggling, or
Speaker 6: they're you know, the students are struggling, the school just
Speaker 6: gets more funding. We're not really seeing that type of accountability.
Speaker 6: We're just seeing more money thrown up the problem. And
Speaker 6: clearly we're seeing the district school system that's not working.
Speaker 6: To look at Baltimore, for example, one of the highest
Speaker 6: funded school districts in the country at we've had years,
Speaker 6: are not one student with proficient in reading right, And
Speaker 6: that's just accept horrible.
Speaker 2: Although it's a different problem, right because if you look
Speaker 2: at the traditional typically the urban schools are the ones
Speaker 2: that do poorly. At Tarnowski suburban schools or my kids
Speaker 2: went to school now there's taxes are higher, obviously because
Speaker 2: property taxes. With the bill, we have plenty of suburban
Speaker 2: districts if people will flock to to send their kids to.
Speaker 2: You know, I I don't think that's going to change
Speaker 2: based on these models, right. It seems like this is
Speaker 2: going to hurt the urban areas and maybe rural areas more.
Speaker 6: Well. Yeah, and you know, I'm assided to the public
Speaker 6: school myself. I was lucky enough to go to a
Speaker 6: good district school. But and the thing to take away
Speaker 6: here is, you know, families right out of the current system.
Speaker 6: We do have school choice for people who can afford it.
Speaker 6: You can go ahead and take your buy a house
Speaker 6: in a higher performing school district. But if you can't
Speaker 6: afford to do that, then you're stuck in, you know,
Speaker 6: those lower performing schools. So right now we have school
Speaker 6: choice in places about in places that are just relying
Speaker 6: on the district school system. Still we have school choice
Speaker 6: for the rich that people can afford to get up
Speaker 6: and move and buy a Mark Smith's house and a
Speaker 6: Marksmen the neighborhood. But if you can't, you can only
Speaker 6: go to your local district school. It is you will
Speaker 6: really be arrested if you're trying to send your kids
Speaker 6: to a school in a different district outside of these
Speaker 6: arbitrarily drawn lines. So right now we have school choice
Speaker 6: for the rich and true school choices, you know, open competition,
Speaker 6: allowing anyone to take the funding set aside for their
Speaker 6: kids and take it to the school that steps for them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's to show all full circle.
Speaker 2: We'd come back in when it was fifty four, when
Speaker 2: we had the fight over segregating schools, Brown versus Board
Speaker 2: of Education, where all you want to do is send
Speaker 2: his daughter to the school that was literally across the
Speaker 2: street or down the block from whether they've instead of
Speaker 2: busing or across town because of the color of her skin.
Speaker 2: And now here's twenty you know, in the everwhere we
Speaker 2: live right now, we have kind of the inverse of that.
Speaker 2: It's like, well, wait, the school that's down the street
Speaker 2: for me is terrible, it's underperforming. There's a better performing school,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe it's a private school across I should
Speaker 2: be able to send my kid there if I care
Speaker 2: about their education.
Speaker 6: Well, of course, And it's we talk about systemic racism.
Speaker 6: I mean, some of these just for school lines are
Speaker 6: often I mean arbitrary is run decades ago and often
Speaker 6: now with the best intentions in mind, and yet we're
Speaker 6: seeing them just send it substaunchly and often blindly without
Speaker 6: thought for with the reason being, you know, this is
Speaker 6: how things have been done, which I think are some
Speaker 6: of the most dangerous were in the English language. It's
Speaker 6: just it's time to rethink public education. I think that
Speaker 6: pandemically opens to a lot of minds, and I think
Speaker 6: what we're seeing with school choice sweep humnation is that
Speaker 6: I think it's the most significant education reform that we've
Speaker 6: seen that the civil rights movement. And that's why getting
Speaker 6: these details very so important because that school choice continues
Speaker 6: to increase and we're seeing more and more states and race.
Speaker 6: As we've talked about universal eligibility, we want to get
Speaker 6: that funding right too, because if you know, if every
Speaker 6: state can make all kids eligible, they're applying for a program,
Speaker 6: but if they're not all funded, then as a truly
Speaker 6: universal we really are we really maximizing the education reform
Speaker 6: that we can see the change that we can see.
Speaker 2: Ed Taranowski is with the ed choice and we're talking
Speaker 2: about the growing number of states that are moving towards
Speaker 2: school choice programs.
Speaker 3: We have it here in Ohio.
Speaker 2: The problem though, of course, is we are universally eligible
Speaker 2: to do it, but there's no universal funding and that
Speaker 2: has been a problem in Ohio for a long time,
Speaker 2: regardless of what we're doing. We spend over a billion
Speaker 2: dollars on vouchers last year this year, and that gets
Speaker 2: less than ten percent of residents. I think there's like
Speaker 2: a well over a million and a half students in
Speaker 2: the Buckeye State. What would that cost to fund that?
Speaker 6: Well, I don't have the numbers on the top of
Speaker 6: my head. However, what I will say is and Ohio's
Speaker 6: fundy mechanism isn't necessarily one of the worst. The problem
Speaker 6: as that I see in Ohio is that how it's
Speaker 6: you know, the funding is tiered based on income. We
Speaker 6: want to see three university, want to see all families
Speaker 6: able to access because you know, the more competition, the
Speaker 6: more small competition for seing, the more we see improvement,
Speaker 6: honest to the education system as a whole.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have in Ohio. It's like eight different private
Speaker 2: school choice programs. That's it's pretty fragmented. Does that hurt
Speaker 2: the goal of universal access?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 6: Well Ohio, Yeah, yes, we talk A lot of us
Speaker 6: did a choice because One of our big projects every
Speaker 6: year is BBC's School Choice where we break down the
Speaker 6: details of every single school choice program in the country.
Speaker 6: And Ohio is always a long one, but yeah, I
Speaker 6: mean Ohio. I think the reason they have so many programs,
Speaker 6: one of the reasons at least is, you know, Ohia
Speaker 6: has one of the longest histories of having school choice,
Speaker 6: private school choice in the country. Ohio on Wisconsin were
Speaker 6: kind of where the modern school choices was in was born.
Speaker 6: Where we saw you know, regional in Wisconsin's Milwaukee, we
Speaker 6: saw it in Highos, Cleveland, we saw regionally based small
Speaker 6: vecher programs designed to serve love forming students of pharma
Speaker 6: schools and low came areas. So a lot of these
Speaker 6: programs have just been around for so long. You know,
Speaker 6: I don't think it necessarily hurts, you know, if if
Speaker 6: as long as we do continue to have those programs
Speaker 6: with universalige ability, I think it's necessarily a bad thing
Speaker 6: to have programs on top of that. However, you know,
Speaker 6: I think it's consolidated and just have you know, universal
Speaker 6: money across the board. Get rid of that the incomes here,
Speaker 6: then it may not be necessary. Uh. And what we
Speaker 6: are seeing as I kind of touched upon earlier, is
Speaker 6: Ohio is a big boucher state, not an education Safety's
Speaker 6: account state yet, so one thing where it does fall
Speaker 6: short quite having so many different docture programs, Ohio doesn't
Speaker 6: have a robust education stavit's account program or funds can
Speaker 6: be spent on things other than private school tuition, right,
Speaker 6: which we are seeing in those states last year or
Speaker 6: this year. Rather we saw a ballot seventy five percent
Speaker 6: involved private school choice related legislation was related to education
Speaker 6: savor's accounts. So truly we're moving towards more flexibility for parents.
Speaker 2: And we have eighty eight counties in Ohio, and you know,
Speaker 2: a couple dozen are more than a couple doesn't are
Speaker 2: highly populated, but typically you know Ohio, we have a
Speaker 2: lot of rural communities. Does this apply to them and
Speaker 2: do they get squeezed out or result of that?
Speaker 6: It absolutely applies to royal communities. And there's there's a
Speaker 6: couple of big reasons for that. I mean number one is,
Speaker 6: you know, one thing that we're putting together and we've
Speaker 6: done for some states in the Path to Dad Choices.
Speaker 6: We call it the the roadmap, and you'll see that
Speaker 6: generally speaking, people are much more closer to a private
Speaker 6: school options than they realize. I say, in Georgia, for example,
Speaker 6: I think it's like which has a lot of rural areas.
Speaker 6: I think over like ninety percent of people within fifteen
Speaker 6: to twenty minute drive of a private school, and two
Speaker 6: even in those rural communities where they do have maybe
Speaker 6: fewer options. In some other areas, the glory of choice
Speaker 6: and a marketplaces of education is you're going to see
Speaker 6: new education providers come up. In Arizona and Florida, for example,
Speaker 6: which which have now both had true universal educational choice
Speaker 6: for some time now, and then they have a history
Speaker 6: of having school choice prior to going full universal. We've
Speaker 6: seen massive increases in the number of education providers, in
Speaker 6: number schools. You know, different entrepreneur entrepreneurial ideas for education,
Speaker 6: but we're seeing a record number of new education providers
Speaker 6: popping up as a result of this market of education
Speaker 6: that's been formed with in a system where the money
Speaker 6: is calm and the child and it's truly universal everywhere.
Speaker 2: He's at Taranowski with the Edge Joys talking about school
Speaker 2: vouchers in the whole program. Ohio is one of the
Speaker 2: newer states, and one of the first states to do this,
Speaker 2: or maybe not the first, but we're kind of in
Speaker 2: the mix. But now nineteen states total are offering this,
Speaker 2: and many more look like they're head in this direction.
Speaker 2: The other aspect outside of rural communities that this is
Speaker 2: going to affect is the fact that a judge in
Speaker 2: Franklin County recently ruled that the voucher program's unconstitutional. That's
Speaker 2: the other part of the problem, and that's part of
Speaker 2: the process or constitutional challenges in lawsuits. But it seems
Speaker 2: like it's difficult to get a measure on or even
Speaker 2: move with the universal of eligibility question as the funding
Speaker 2: mechanisms get fought and played out in court.
Speaker 6: Yeah, wells, as we often jokes, many dead taxes and
Speaker 6: teacher unions or others doing once private school programs are
Speaker 6: extended to pass. It's certainly not the first time that
Speaker 6: we've seen off. We continue to be be confident that
Speaker 6: school choice is legal, particularly especially at the federal level.
Speaker 6: You know, the state court. This is going to play
Speaker 6: out in state courts, so it is we will see
Speaker 6: how it goes, but we certainly hope that families will
Speaker 6: continue to be able to access abroad this broad choice program.
Speaker 2: You know, what should and what should we do relative
Speaker 2: to funding? I mean, what give me an example of
Speaker 2: where it works and how they do it, because here
Speaker 2: it's it's property taxes and we have levees, and then
Speaker 2: we have some areas are pulling the levies back and
Speaker 2: we're doing income taxes, and it's just a it's an
Speaker 2: un going to mitigated disasters. It's been going on since
Speaker 2: almost as long as I've been voting no.
Speaker 6: It's a great question. And I'm going to talk about
Speaker 6: New Hampshire as an example because this year we were
Speaker 6: considering them the star of this year's legislation school choice
Speaker 6: legislation and when the Hampsters program does so. They had
Speaker 6: had their program since twenty twenty one and it started
Speaker 6: with an income liment, similar to what many of Ohio's
Speaker 6: programs started with. And this year they went forward and
Speaker 6: looked at an income liment, so now it has universal altibility.
Speaker 6: What said the Hamphurd part is as even talking about
Speaker 6: it has one multiple of uses. You can use the
Speaker 6: funds on the varying educational expenses. But the main part
Speaker 6: here is that funding mechanism. The Hampshire's Education's Freedom Come
Speaker 6: program ties its funding mechanism to the stage education funding formula,
Speaker 6: so that money that's already set aside to educate each
Speaker 6: kid follows each kid. So instead of creating a new
Speaker 6: appropriation or revenue stream here, it's just it's tapping into
Speaker 6: the funding already set that the state already sets aside
Speaker 6: for people on average to educate them. So we're seeing
Speaker 6: it choice to putting on the be put on the
Speaker 6: same footing as just your schools. It's just rethinking public
Speaker 6: education as I mentioned, and this is really and they
Speaker 6: sort of and there's no teering on income based on
Speaker 6: on how much you get you know, each each students
Speaker 6: participating that gets the average for people funding it's too
Speaker 6: after all, it is the money set aside to educate them.
Speaker 6: They would not get less if they were in a
Speaker 6: disious school. So it's truly putting it on the same
Speaker 6: footing as a schools. I think that's been great. Or
Speaker 6: like I said, for a bus marketplace for education, you
Speaker 6: get more competition and more competition because more entrepreneurship, more
Speaker 6: people coming up in new schooling models, and we send
Speaker 6: more improvement on the system across the board.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because right now. I mean, I think it's less
Speaker 2: than ten minus. I said, eight to nine percent of
Speaker 2: Ohio students are participating even though they're all eligible, and
Speaker 2: I think it's going to take a while for that
Speaker 2: to catch up. It's going to take a generation for
Speaker 2: this to be common. But the funding thing is what's
Speaker 2: got to be addressed initially at Tarnowski with ed Choice,
Speaker 2: Thanks again for jumping on this morning, appreciate it.
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2: Interesting how this is, you know, spreading to other states
Speaker 2: right now, the idea that hey, if public schools are failing,
Speaker 2: we have an alternative. Now, yesterday I had the superintendent
Speaker 2: of CPS and Studio Sean Murphy. They're making some great improvements,
Speaker 2: and certainly not all schools and CPSS such a big
Speaker 2: urban districts, it's got problems or failed schools. The report
Speaker 2: card is still a problem, Attendance is still a big problem.
Speaker 2: Right but voters overwhelmingly supported a renewal levey for CPS
Speaker 2: as a result of that, so they're obviously, you live
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati, you're satisfied with the progress. But you know,
Speaker 2: if I'm not, I'm near a school where my kid
Speaker 2: would go and it's terrible, and I want to do
Speaker 2: better by them. I should be allowed to send them
Speaker 2: where I want to in a better performing school. And
Speaker 2: I think the school choice models actually affected public schools
Speaker 2: that way because you have monosories and all these different
Speaker 2: types of schools or ways to teach kids that you
Speaker 2: didn't have before.
Speaker 3: So competition is good. That is the bottom line. Got
Speaker 3: a news update on.
Speaker 2: The way, and then our health and fitness doctor is here,
Speaker 2: doctor Sanjay, dealing with the time change. Still, he's got
Speaker 2: some ideas for you to help you out. Next on
Speaker 2: the Scots Salon show seven hunderd w Clonia, I'm seven.
Speaker 3: Every Thursday morning. No, I've got a new segment here.
Speaker 2: It's kind of healthy food and fitness, but not that
Speaker 2: pushy like you know, you're not allowed to eat carbs
Speaker 2: the rest of your life kind of stuff. Sanjay Scheva
Speaker 2: Cremani's a physician in Cincinnati. Air doc also is the
Speaker 2: health minded guy here on the show. So you know
Speaker 2: on Thursday good time to check into it too. And
Speaker 2: I know that this is the time of year especially,
Speaker 2: I know some people are really struggling here at work
Speaker 2: when it comes to the time change.
Speaker 3: I know, the older I get the worse it gets
Speaker 3: for me, it happens to us.
Speaker 7: It's happened to me too. In the in the beginning
Speaker 7: of my career, when I was working overnight shifts, I
Speaker 7: could just you know, I could rip off three or
Speaker 7: four in a row. And now one or two max
Speaker 7: is what I can do, and I'm just a mess
Speaker 7: for another fire. Absolutely, Yeah, it's not getting any better.
Speaker 7: Why why is that?
Speaker 2: I think we talked about it was sleep, So is
Speaker 2: why am I getting up at three or four in
Speaker 2: the morning and just like I'm wide awake?
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's it's part of that. But also it's our
Speaker 7: body is tuned to be on the same cycle all
Speaker 7: the time, and so you know, even an hour difference
Speaker 7: makes a huge difference to our bodies in general. So
Speaker 7: when we throw anything off at all, our hormones just
Speaker 7: go a little bit haywire and we just feel in
Speaker 7: a fog. It's like being jet lagged, essentially. But with
Speaker 7: that only that one hour time difference, it makes a
Speaker 7: huge difference. All right, So how do you combat this?
Speaker 7: I mean, it's you know, here we are on Thursday already,
Speaker 7: and that happened on Monday. Sunday was fine.
Speaker 2: It's like a it's great, Oh yeah, that's ver asleep, awesome,
Speaker 2: and then Monday hit and it's like I'm still in
Speaker 2: the RUD a week later.
Speaker 7: And that's typical. So it's like five to seven days
Speaker 7: to get back to normal, which you'll find even when
Speaker 7: you travel internationally, the same kind of thing happened. There
Speaker 7: are a couple of things we can do, but I
Speaker 7: still want to start with the fact that I am
Speaker 7: so grateful that I did not work Saturday night this year.
Speaker 7: There is nothing worse than it looking at the clock
Speaker 7: at one fifty nine in the morning on overnight and
Speaker 7: then waiting for the next minute and suddenly it's one
Speaker 7: in the morning.
Speaker 3: You get that whole hour over again when you're working. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I've done that one.
Speaker 7: Yeah. The converse is true too, you know in spring,
Speaker 7: you skip an hour, You're like, oh, I'm almost done
Speaker 7: with my shift. This this one stinks. So I was
Speaker 7: off this weekend. But a big shout out to the docks, nurses, firefighters, police,
Speaker 7: even you know, industrial workers and truck drivers that were
Speaker 7: out there overnight and had to put in an extra hour.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've had to work that show.
Speaker 2: I actually worked at the place one time where I
Speaker 2: know my time and I was so college but in
Speaker 2: my time card that they showed me an hour.
Speaker 3: So like I worked the next year, ard, I know
Speaker 3: you did, Yeah I did, time went backwards.
Speaker 2: I'm more I worked and actually I had to fight
Speaker 2: them on It's like it's an hour for God's sake
Speaker 2: that I was working.
Speaker 7: Absolutely, Yeah, it's want to make sure your HR department
Speaker 7: knows about that whole thing. It's a minor detail. But yeah,
Speaker 7: to your question about how do we combat that, first, No,
Speaker 7: you're not alone if you feel like trash for about
Speaker 7: a week. And that's that's one of my main things
Speaker 7: always is like just acceptance of yeah, this this thinks.
Speaker 7: But there are things you can do so that One
Speaker 7: of the biggest things is actually your light exposure. Okay,
Speaker 7: and so you know we get we get light at
Speaker 7: a different time. Now you would just kind of want
Speaker 7: to reset your body's clock. What what your body responds
Speaker 7: most to is sunlight, and so trying to get sunlight
Speaker 7: at the beginning of the day to say, hey, it's
Speaker 7: time to wake up. This is the new morning time.
Speaker 7: And getting that light exposure is the most important step
Speaker 7: you can do.
Speaker 2: Okay, just shine Okay, So it's a happy let to
Speaker 2: turn a light on when when your arm goes.
Speaker 7: Off, turning a light is decent.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 7: You know, looking at a screen is not great because
Speaker 7: of all the distractions, but light and turning on the
Speaker 7: light is okay. But seeing natural sunlight is what our
Speaker 7: body responds.
Speaker 3: You know, you live in Ohio, Kentucky, a Diana, right,
Speaker 3: you're not gonna see man.
Speaker 7: I grew up in Boston, So okay, I'll take this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Artificial light then will be the or not Florida sun.
Speaker 2: And you'd like, I mean, right now, it's too late.
Speaker 2: I know you're supposed to ease into this, but who
Speaker 2: has time to Okay, set your clock fifteen minutes or
Speaker 2: every night, and then you'll get nobody has that kind
Speaker 2: of time.
Speaker 7: Nobody has that kind of time. And I'm not even
Speaker 7: sure it works that well to do it just gradually.
Speaker 7: I think, you know, as long as we have to
Speaker 7: deal with daylight saving time, and we can we can
Speaker 7: lean into that a little bit more and talk about it.
Speaker 7: But as long as we have to deal with that,
Speaker 7: you know, we're gonna have to deal with the disruptions
Speaker 7: and the bad health of consequences that come with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you mentioned the time shifting and things like that,
Speaker 2: you know, having traveled this summer through the international dateline,
Speaker 2: I don't know how people do Like all the P
Speaker 2: and G people listening and people who travel for sales
Speaker 2: get buddies.
Speaker 3: That do this, like, I don't know how they do it.
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 7: I don't know how you do it too. I've been
Speaker 7: doing it myself for twenty two years of my life
Speaker 7: with you know, shifting times all over the place with
Speaker 7: my schedule, and I still, like you mentioned, it gets
Speaker 7: worse with age, and it's just getting harder and harder.
Speaker 7: And you know, as far as shifting time zones is
Speaker 7: one God the higher country of three hundred million people
Speaker 7: have to change their schedules for this, minus of course Arizona,
Speaker 7: who is battling this or is already they won the battle,
Speaker 7: and like the sixties, and they don't change time.
Speaker 3: When everyone just do that, that seems like should we
Speaker 3: get rid of this time change thing?
Speaker 7: I would say yes. And so nineteen states currently are
Speaker 7: battling it, and they've passed it a state level, but
Speaker 7: it's going to take federal approval to make a change.
Speaker 7: And so that's not that hasn't happened.
Speaker 2: To Yeah, I know the farmers, well the farmers, yeah,
Speaker 2: but they all have headlights on their gear now, so
Speaker 2: it's not like the old days.
Speaker 3: It's a horse and a oh wow.
Speaker 7: So here's an interesting thing. It's not the farmers that
Speaker 7: are big constituents of this whole thing. They actually are
Speaker 7: anti for the most part. Farmers don't like the time change.
Speaker 7: They don't like the daylight saving time. This came from
Speaker 7: kind of the industrial revolution in the in the nineteen
Speaker 7: tens and nineteen forties, where it was just kind of
Speaker 7: saving energy so that lights didn't have to be on longer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well wartime. That also during World War two, so exactly.
Speaker 7: It started in World War One, it got revamped in
Speaker 7: World War Two, and we've been stuck in that ever since. Yeah,
Speaker 7: and now when we're finding is it doesn't even necessarily
Speaker 7: save energy, and so the question is really why are
Speaker 7: we doing this? And I'm at a loss because a habit,
Speaker 7: I think, so it's things are things are just that way.
Speaker 2: And there's Indiana where there's areas where it goes back
Speaker 2: and forth like six times. If you've ever driven to
Speaker 2: French like oh, you know, like the time changes like
Speaker 2: six times.
Speaker 7: It feels like Dan Kentucky are both kinds of saint
Speaker 7: with the you know, districts, so I don't know how
Speaker 7: you live in those areas or like work from home
Speaker 7: and deal with people on the other side.
Speaker 2: Down and then the whole times of like people traveling.
Speaker 2: As I meant, I will say that if you're listening, like,
Speaker 2: oh man, I've got a fly and there's an app
Speaker 2: I used called time Shifter, and you put your flight
Speaker 2: information in it and then actually calculates and tells you
Speaker 2: okay at this time. Try to take an app stay
Speaker 2: awake here, get sunlight, take melatone in here, and it
Speaker 2: does it for like a three day period to ease
Speaker 2: you back. It was developed like a I think an
Speaker 2: astronaut developed the app, and it's really cool.
Speaker 7: You've used it.
Speaker 3: I tried it, Yeah, what do you think? I don't know.
Speaker 3: It seemed to work.
Speaker 2: I mean I just I usually plow through and just
Speaker 2: stay up and you know, just to just a natural
Speaker 2: time and try to you know, stay.
Speaker 7: I wonder I can work for my shifts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my I'll go send all over the place call
Speaker 2: time shifter. I think I think I mean this, you
Speaker 2: put your flight info and it it knows what times
Speaker 2: they are. Yeah, but yeah, it's pretty cool. You might
Speaker 2: to shift a new app and you know, retire for
Speaker 2: physicians liked son Jay Shiv Carmani's here, he's our health
Speaker 2: and fitness guy. We're talking about the time change and
Speaker 2: if it's still biting you, which it seems like a
Speaker 2: lot of people are struggling with the time change, especially
Speaker 2: this time of year. Knowing that, hey, I woke up
Speaker 2: in the sun's here, but now all of a sudden
Speaker 2: five thirty, the sun's going down.
Speaker 7: It's not gone already.
Speaker 2: I'll tell he was really messed up as our dog
Speaker 2: because he eats at five and now he's at four o'clock.
Speaker 2: He's scratching at his food bowl, going its time to eat.
Speaker 2: He doesn't know this time.
Speaker 7: It's not like your cat scratching at your head, which
Speaker 7: is what they typically do too. So yeah, I don't
Speaker 7: have children, but I know children are thrown off by
Speaker 7: this whole thing.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm I'm very much in the con camp as
Speaker 7: far as daylight saving.
Speaker 3: Should you do you just your eating schedule with us?
Speaker 7: Should you?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 7: Do I personally no? But yeah, your time and and
Speaker 7: where you live and where your body knows it's time
Speaker 7: is based on light, it's based on food, is based
Speaker 7: on exercise and movement, and those are the main things.
Speaker 7: There's a cool word called zite gaber which is a timekeeper,
Speaker 7: so like an external cue something out in the outside
Speaker 7: world that tells you what time it is. So some light, exercise, fooding, fooding, uh, food,
Speaker 7: the eating and food, yeah, exactly, just doing that thing.
Speaker 7: But ZiT gabers are so it's a German word and
Speaker 7: it basically it says, these are the cues that tell
Speaker 7: you where you are, and so those don't change necessarily,
Speaker 7: but our clocks do, so things go a little haywire.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, makes sense, all right, So consistent sleep, schedule,
Speaker 2: all that stuff.
Speaker 3: If your struggle, how long typically does this last? If
Speaker 3: you're really struggling with the time change.
Speaker 7: So it'll usually be about five to seven days, but
Speaker 7: it's going to depend on you know, in general, age
Speaker 7: is a big thing. How use you are to throwing
Speaker 7: off your schedule are the kind of the two main things.
Speaker 7: And then there's the whole chronotypes thing, which I don't
Speaker 7: know if you've heard of it. So it's basically the
Speaker 7: time person you are. So there are larks and there
Speaker 7: are owls. Larks are the fancy name for like mourning people,
Speaker 7: and owls are the fancy word for evening.
Speaker 3: Always hated ark makes sense? What's that I always hated larks.
Speaker 7: But here's what I guess.
Speaker 3: I used to be an owl and now I'm a lark.
Speaker 7: Interesting. Yeah, that that can happen. And so it depends
Speaker 7: on like how your schedule builds out. But about fifty
Speaker 7: percent of what you are is based purely on genetics,
Speaker 7: and then fifty percent is everything else. And so you know,
Speaker 7: if you're like, oh, man, I'm trying to be a
Speaker 7: morning person, you may not have any control over that.
Speaker 7: And so give yourself a break. If you're trying to
Speaker 7: be a type of morning person. Even if you do
Speaker 7: light exercise food in the morning, you still may not
Speaker 7: be able to combat your owl self.
Speaker 2: You may just be a night person and eventually I've
Speaker 2: become a flamingo. I just stand and sleep on one foot.
Speaker 2: That would be a skill. You can retire with that
Speaker 2: skill looking down for shrimp. That's what I'm doing. And
Speaker 2: the problem is that we get home and I think
Speaker 2: there's a depression element to it because it's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: work days over and you go, wow, I've got thirty
Speaker 2: minutes of sunlight maybe or eventually in a couple of months,
Speaker 2: we'll go to work with dark.
Speaker 3: We get home and it's dark.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 7: And so depression is one of the bigger things that
Speaker 7: we see with the time change, especially moving forward. We
Speaker 7: see you mentioned it. It gets darker when we're commuting home,
Speaker 7: and so there's more pedestrians struck and there's more car
Speaker 7: accidents in general because our bodies aren't used to plus
Speaker 7: we're exhausted. And then the second part is just in general,
Speaker 7: as stress goes up and everything that comes from that
Speaker 7: as well with the Russian anxiety, all of those things
Speaker 7: tend to get greater. So not only is it colder
Speaker 7: and darker outside, now you have a time change too,
Speaker 7: where it's dark when you leave for work and it's
Speaker 7: dark when you come home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we just are also bad sleep as we
Speaker 2: That was our segment last week, we talked about sleep,
Speaker 2: and this is kind of playing off that this morning
Speaker 2: with Sanja Schev CREMANI and I don't even even talked
Speaker 2: about sleep atnel last because just so many Americans are
Speaker 2: affected by bad sleep it's incredible.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and it's getting worse. Did you see this, by
Speaker 7: the way, the study on melatonin.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you about that because, as we
Speaker 2: talked about, I'm a melatonin user and I probably use
Speaker 2: it more than I should. But now there's a link
Speaker 2: possibly between melatonin and heart disease.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and it was actually a study on heart failure.
Speaker 7: But using the word study I think is loose, So
Speaker 7: it's not great. So if you're all alarmed and you
Speaker 7: have like a stash of melatonin at home and you're
Speaker 7: you know, scared and either threw the bottle away or
Speaker 7: thinking about it, just know that the study isn't conclusive.
Speaker 7: And so basically what it says is, yes, there's a link.
Speaker 7: If you use melatonin, there is more heart failure. But
Speaker 7: what we all oftentimes stay is science is correlation does
Speaker 7: an equal causation exactly? And so you know there may
Speaker 7: be something tying both of those together. What type of
Speaker 7: person uses melatonin a lot and what type of person
Speaker 7: develops congestive heart failure, those two things may be linked
Speaker 7: by something else. And so the thought is, if you
Speaker 7: have chronic insomnia, maybe that's what's leading to you getting
Speaker 7: melatonin and getting congestive heart failure as opposed to the
Speaker 7: melatonin causing it. There's nothing out there that says it's
Speaker 7: not the melatonin, but I have a feeling it's not.
Speaker 7: And the study was so it's patients that were prescribed melatonin,
Speaker 7: and so how many of us have been prescribed melatonin?
Speaker 7: Like no, exactly, So yeah, we get OTC. So you know,
Speaker 7: for this patient population, it's not it's not representative of
Speaker 7: us as a whole. So I think more studies have
Speaker 7: to be done. But I'm not doing anything with my melatonin.
Speaker 7: I use it maybe once or twice a week, usually
Speaker 7: like one to two milligrams max. And I'm not worried
Speaker 7: about it. I'm gonna keep using it, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2: And that's that's interesting how you point out because people
Speaker 2: here that they flip out like time on. All right, well, okay,
Speaker 2: let's look at the melatonin thing for a second. If
Speaker 2: I can't sleep, well, I'm suffering from insomnia. Okay, try melotone. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'll try that. Well, I'm taking it. It may help
Speaker 2: a little bit. I fall asleep, I still wake up.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's sleep apnea and you're undiagnosed, and that we
Speaker 2: know that that leads to heart disease, heart failure, chronic
Speaker 2: heart failure, and so it's that it's not the melotone.
Speaker 7: Exactly, but bad sleep in general. So who's getting prescribed
Speaker 7: melatonin by their doctor in high enough doses that you
Speaker 7: need a prescription or in general, it's the people that
Speaker 7: have received other prescriptions for sleep probably and are getting
Speaker 7: this now from their doctor to be like, oh, you know,
Speaker 7: looking for another helper. But these are the versions with
Speaker 7: chronic insomnia, and like you said, observed to sleep, apnea,
Speaker 7: chronic insomnia, they're all led to they're all linked to
Speaker 7: heart disease.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. It's gonna be a root cause.
Speaker 2: And that's where you trust your physicians too, is to
Speaker 2: get you know, and you've got to go to the doctor.
Speaker 2: You should be going, especially as you get older, at
Speaker 2: least once a year, get your annual physical, talk to
Speaker 2: your physician, find someone you trust and like, and have
Speaker 2: those problems sorted out, because you know, I wonder how
Speaker 2: you talk about how many people are getting an accidents
Speaker 2: and dying and we're talking about sleep and the time change,
Speaker 2: but so many folks are out there falling asleep behind
Speaker 2: the wheel and causing problems at work, and we talk
Speaker 2: about drugs and all that, but we rather talk about sleep.
Speaker 2: And that's probably the biggest thing out there, because I'll
Speaker 2: have to sleep.
Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly, And yeah you mentioned it, you know, having
Speaker 7: a good link with your doctor, but also understanding you
Speaker 7: know this this news is just breaking. We're all trying
Speaker 7: to digest it too. I mean the forums online, we're
Speaker 7: all just like, what do we do with this? Yeah,
Speaker 7: you know, you figure it out with the melatonin and
Speaker 7: you parse through it. But there's more to be learned always,
Speaker 7: and so maybe someday we'll find something. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 7: think this is anything to really change your lifestyle about,
Speaker 7: but you know, I could be wrong, but I think
Speaker 7: that chance is low.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you wouldn't worry a bit. It's not like at
Speaker 2: the top of your righty going there's probably something else there.
Speaker 2: But then I don't know what's the responsibility of reporting
Speaker 2: and issuing these studies. If it scares people into a
Speaker 2: false belief, that's that's not good medicine either.
Speaker 4: Is it.
Speaker 7: It's it's not great medicine, but it is the way
Speaker 7: of the world, right, Like every study now gets shared
Speaker 7: and and so that's why the internet's so noisy is
Speaker 7: there's so much data out there and no one knows
Speaker 7: what to do with it. But certain ones rise to
Speaker 7: the top for whatever reason, and usually it's because they're
Speaker 7: alarmist and so things that have surprising results, even if
Speaker 7: they're not fully founded in in causation, et cetera, those
Speaker 7: will rise to the top because they get people worried.
Speaker 7: And I mean almost every everyone I know uses melatonin,
Speaker 7: and so of course that's going to be there. I mean,
Speaker 7: same thing you just mentioned, talent, all, same thing. People
Speaker 7: will bring that up more because it's more it's it's
Speaker 7: more pervasive in their life and it's more relevant to them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, on the tunnel thing, I mean I probably have
Speaker 2: mild connection to that, I suppose, but it's kind of like,
Speaker 2: you know, me with a bad shoulder. It's like, well,
Speaker 2: I take advil and it didn't wear my shoulder out.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking it goes my shoulder were out exactly like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: All right, So with some some tips to help deal
Speaker 2: with the time change, if you're still dealing with this thing,
Speaker 2: you should be able to catch up a little this weekend, though,
Speaker 2: right to get to adjust your schedule if you have
Speaker 2: a couple days off.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a good idea to kind of get the
Speaker 7: rest and listen to your body. So, like we mentioned
Speaker 7: about the chronotypes and the larks being the morning people,
Speaker 7: you'll probably wake up at five or six in the morning,
Speaker 7: and that's your normal and that's cool. Owls have a
Speaker 7: tougher time. They tend to wake up around nine or
Speaker 7: ten in the morning. If left without an alarm let
Speaker 7: that happen too. It's an interesting thing about circadian rhythm,
Speaker 7: So what controls our cycle through the day. People have
Speaker 7: a cycle that's not twenty four hours exactly right, and
Speaker 7: so we're always playing catch up or a little too far.
Speaker 7: And it's interesting. We're between twenty three and a half
Speaker 7: and twenty four and a half hours for our rhythm,
Speaker 7: and so the weekend's a good time to catch up
Speaker 7: on those half hours you're missing here and there.
Speaker 3: Gotcha all right?
Speaker 2: Interesting sign Jay Shiv CARMANI he's a air physician here
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati, but on the show Thursday mornings, we're a
Speaker 2: health and food and fitness collide. And thanks again, man,
Speaker 2: appreciate talk next weekppreciate it stuff Scot Flown Show after
Speaker 2: news continues coming up in just minutes here kids confronting
Speaker 2: parents about their addiction issues. We'll get into that one.
Speaker 2: Zinga Harrison, She's next on the show seven hundred de
Speaker 2: Wuti other day.
Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American?
Speaker 2: He's got flown back on seven hundred wt ol Over
Speaker 2: y Man, we got the problems. Seventeen million children and
Speaker 2: seventeen million children and adolescents are living with a parent
Speaker 2: in their household who has a substance abuse problem, alcohol
Speaker 2: use disorder.
Speaker 3: The leading contributor there.
Speaker 2: Number two now is cannabis, and I'd imagine that has
Speaker 2: to do with recreational cannabis being legalized. So, families, how
Speaker 2: do you identify this? Where do you go for help?
Speaker 2: Because this is kind of like a to me, like
Speaker 2: an unknown error. We talk about usually it's addiction. It's
Speaker 2: going to be a family member. You know, we're doing
Speaker 2: some of our kids, our sons, our daughters, you know,
Speaker 2: the whole just say no thing. But if it's like this,
Speaker 2: mom or dad, how do you navigate that? And if
Speaker 2: your mom or dad, how do you how do you
Speaker 2: get treatment?
Speaker 3: How do you do this?
Speaker 2: And Zinga Harris is a co founder and chief Medical
Speaker 2: officer at Eleanor Health here in Ohio, and that's an
Speaker 2: outpatient addiction treatment program.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the show, good morning, Thank you so much,
Speaker 3: good morning.
Speaker 2: Disturbing problem here, and it's an area you really don't
Speaker 2: talk about, and that is usually it's the kids. You know,
Speaker 2: they go to school, bad influence, as they said back
Speaker 2: in the day, and maybe they start experimenting with drugs
Speaker 2: and alcohol and it gets to be a problem. We
Speaker 2: often don't talk about the opposite of that. That'll be
Speaker 2: mom or dad and or dad having substance abuse issues.
Speaker 2: And it's in the news from time to time where
Speaker 2: kids have to be removed from a home because of that,
Speaker 2: and we just shutter and shake our head and go,
Speaker 2: my god, it's that.
Speaker 3: That's a horrible thing, addiction. But it really doesn't get
Speaker 3: the attention it deserves, does it.
Speaker 6: It really doesn't.
Speaker 10: And so the statistics you shared, seventeen million kids are
Speaker 10: dealing with a parent at home that has a use disorder,
Speaker 10: as the diagnosis that we use is even likely less,
Speaker 10: you know, it's even likely more than that, because we're
Speaker 10: such under diagnosing the condition of substance disorder.
Speaker 5: Because, like you've mentioned, the stigma and the silence that
Speaker 5: we have around it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what the advent of recreational weed here in
Speaker 2: Ohio as many other states are are we seeing an
Speaker 2: increase of that is, are the numbers increasing, are they
Speaker 2: getting better?
Speaker 3: Are they flat?
Speaker 10: It's a bit early to tell, but the expectation is
Speaker 10: that we will see an increase in individuals that have
Speaker 10: cannabis use disorder. And that's just as you make something legal,
Speaker 10: then it feels safer to people. And to be honest,
Speaker 10: like marijuana certainly has medical uses, it certainly is quote
Speaker 10: less addictive than other illicit drugs we have. But when
Speaker 10: cigarettes are legal, smoking is higher. When alcohol is legal,
Speaker 10: alcohol use disorder is higher.
Speaker 5: So we expect to see that, Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I guess the same would be sure for gambling
Speaker 2: or anything along those lines, where if you legalize it,
Speaker 2: you're going to just going to be and which is
Speaker 2: why you devote some of the money to treatment programs
Speaker 2: and intervention and you can't catch them all that it's sad,
Speaker 2: but that's a different argument entirely. So as the situation develops, though,
Speaker 2: how do you, I guess if you're a kid, especially too,
Speaker 2: you think that's normal. It's one thing for an adult
Speaker 2: to go. I think my son or daughter, my middle
Speaker 2: school or my teenager. I don't want to say they do,
Speaker 2: but I've kind of noticed some weird things off putting behavior.
Speaker 2: It seems like it's almost impossible for a child an
Speaker 2: adolescent to identify this in their parents. The exact opposite
Speaker 2: is impossibility to diagnose yourself.
Speaker 10: I think, actually, I'll push back on that idea Scott.
Speaker 10: So it's interesting. I have two boys now they're nineteen
Speaker 10: and eighteen. But when my oldest was four years old,
Speaker 10: I went to like it was career day and all
Speaker 10: of the parents I came in and I went and
Speaker 10: I spent time in every single grade pre KK, one, two, three,
Speaker 10: four or five talking to the kids.
Speaker 5: I was like, I'm a doctor.
Speaker 10: I'm a physician. I specialize on a brain. I take
Speaker 10: care of people who have addiction. I was, you know,
Speaker 10: like sprinkling in a little snak. Addiction provision for the
Speaker 10: kids started at pre K. Kids knew so starting in
Speaker 10: first grade, as I was like, and here's what addiction is. Literally,
Speaker 10: the first graders were like, is that when my daddy
Speaker 10: hides the bottle in the trash because he doesn't want
Speaker 10: mommy to see yeah, wow. And in second grade a
Speaker 10: kid was like, is that like because my dad went
Speaker 10: to jail and he said he's never gonna smoke again,
Speaker 10: but then he came home and my mom caught hers smoking.
Speaker 10: So like ASA's first second elementary school, the children recognize it.
Speaker 10: But because we can't talk about it, and because it's
Speaker 10: like so scary and so dangerous to say I think
Speaker 10: I might need help that there's like and children don't
Speaker 10: raise those sorts of things to adults. That's our culture, right,
Speaker 10: like that's not your place. And so the children really
Speaker 10: had eyes wide open, and I was like, oh, well,
Speaker 10: let me Yeah, I don't need to tell them how
Speaker 10: to recognize the problem. So I was like, well, now
Speaker 10: let's focus on we're not mad at mommy or dad.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, I guess that's maybe a way to
Speaker 2: look at it too, and singer right, is it? Like
Speaker 2: the kids noticed, but they think, all right, should I
Speaker 2: say something? Is it normal behavior? Because you think that's
Speaker 2: the way adults are, right, And and then you say
Speaker 2: it's a prime and you go, oh, I put it together,
Speaker 2: and you know I just had Honestly, you made the
Speaker 2: hair in the back of my next day and up
Speaker 2: something I have not thought about in I can't remember
Speaker 2: when growing up as a kid, my maternal grandfather and grandma,
Speaker 2: i'd go, you know, go visit them. They lived maybe
Speaker 2: a mile from us, and I remember my grandmother yelling
Speaker 2: at him, my grandfather, and he would and I had
Speaker 2: I thought it was kind of funny at the time,
Speaker 2: Like he'd hide bottles in the trash in the trunk
Speaker 2: of the car and he had I remember him like
Speaker 2: now that as an adult, he'd like get gasoline on
Speaker 2: the rag and he sniffed a Huffett when he was driving.
Speaker 2: I mean, he he had some and he was driving
Speaker 2: us around and I remember him getting yelled at by
Speaker 2: my grandmother and like at the time, you think, why
Speaker 2: are they fighting? What's what's going on? You know it's
Speaker 2: not right, but you can't qualify it. And now that
Speaker 2: you said that, I haven't thought of that in decade. Well,
Speaker 2: you're really good that It's a really really good therapy
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 10: I'm here for you, Scott.
Speaker 3: What's my cope on this? By the way, is there.
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean it happened to me and I was a
Speaker 2: little I couldn't have been I don't know kindergarten, first grade,
Speaker 2: and I kind of remember that stuff. But yeah, you're
Speaker 2: you know, kids are they're a sponge, but I don't
Speaker 2: just don't know if they identified until an adult says, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, substance abuse, and are we doing a better
Speaker 2: job of that in your I mean, you did that
Speaker 2: in Career Day, But is that something that's coming up
Speaker 2: in school that kids are you know, being taught to identify.
Speaker 2: I can imagine that that is a slippery slope that
Speaker 2: we don't want our kids turning into little detectives and
Speaker 2: cops and narcs.
Speaker 3: But are we teaching that in school?
Speaker 5: Certainly?
Speaker 10: So you know, there used to be the program in
Speaker 10: schools that are still in some schools that actually demonstrated
Speaker 10: to be can be dangerous. So I'd just say no,
Speaker 10: approach doesn't equip kids with the information that they need.
Speaker 10: And so some high school the answer to your question this.
Speaker 5: Belt thematically, we are not doing affective drug education and
Speaker 5: prevention in school. Certainly.
Speaker 10: When I did Career Day in elementary school, the principal
Speaker 10: had no idea that's what I would be doing.
Speaker 7: That's nothing like I'm a doctor.
Speaker 5: I'll be happy to come talk to kid.
Speaker 10: Yeah, but as my kids went to middle school and
Speaker 10: high school, I stuck myself into their schools that way
Speaker 10: every time.
Speaker 6: And in high school the.
Speaker 10: Convocation that I did one was voluntary and packed out
Speaker 10: the auditorium. So high school kids chose to come. They
Speaker 10: had to request to sign out seat from class to come.
Speaker 10: They requested, they come, came to learn about this, and
Speaker 10: I taught them about craft the R A s F T,
Speaker 10: which is an adolescent stuff that use to water scream,
Speaker 10: And I was like, apply this to either yourself or
Speaker 10: someone in your life that you might be worried about.
Speaker 10: And if you're worried, you're right. And here's how you
Speaker 10: can get help. Here's an online resource. Here's eleanorhealth dot com.
Speaker 10: If we're in your state, like we are in Ohio,
Speaker 10: here's a team, you know, support group where you can
Speaker 10: talk to other people. Here's how to raise the conversation
Speaker 10: with your parents. Those are the skills that we need
Speaker 10: to be equipping young people with, is how to have
Speaker 10: the conversation.
Speaker 5: That's stuff we really want to turn the times.
Speaker 3: Imagine, yeah, and and take me through that.
Speaker 2: If you're a kid, and not that I have a
Speaker 2: lot of kids listening, but you know, I think if
Speaker 2: you're pro, I think the approach happens when they're not
Speaker 2: in a moment where they're engaging in that behavior and
Speaker 2: doing the addiction is you want.
Speaker 3: To wait until they're sober. And but but how do
Speaker 3: you wordy that? How do you approach your mom or
Speaker 3: dad and saying hey, I think you have a problem.
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's exactly right. So Scott, I'm going to do
Speaker 10: a shameless plug for my book here. It's called an
Speaker 10: Addictioned six to mind Changing Conversations that could Save a.
Speaker 5: Life, available online and storace everywhere.
Speaker 10: And I did that plug because this is exactly what's
Speaker 10: in the book. Is like teaching people how to have
Speaker 10: the conversation.
Speaker 5: With your child.
Speaker 10: There are scripts from preschool all the way to adult child,
Speaker 10: with yourself, with a friend you care about, with a colleague,
Speaker 10: et cetera. And the approach is always the same, which is,
Speaker 10: I'm worried about you, and so what we've done with
Speaker 10: substance you supporders. And this is our central premise at
Speaker 10: Eleanor Health.
Speaker 5: Also so at Eleanor.
Speaker 10: Health where I'm the chief medical officer, we take care
Speaker 10: of people who have addiction and wrap their families in
Speaker 10: that process as well. The approach to addiction has been punitive.
Speaker 10: So either pretend it doesn't exist, or criminalize people, or
Speaker 10: vilify and punish them for having this really devastating illness
Speaker 10: that makes people suffer and makes the person who has
Speaker 10: this suffer and makes their family suffer. It makes the
Speaker 10: children that we're talking about suffer. And so the first
Speaker 10: approach is always I am worried about you, and I
Speaker 10: think you might have this illness, right, And this is
Speaker 10: what I'm seeing that makes me think you might have
Speaker 10: this illness, And I want you to know I'm here
Speaker 10: to join forces with you against this illness, right, Because
Speaker 10: usually our approaches.
Speaker 3: Like what are you doing?
Speaker 10: Like your grandmother was yelling at your grandfather? My grandmother
Speaker 10: had really severe alcoholism.
Speaker 5: Everybody was yelling at her.
Speaker 10: Right, And it's like they're already suffering. So how do
Speaker 10: we approach with compassion and say we see you suffering. No,
Speaker 10: it's an illness. It is also making us suffer, So
Speaker 10: how do we join forces to get you from help?
Speaker 2: And that's and that's a remarkable to look at rather
Speaker 2: than the yell, because you know, if you're engaging in
Speaker 2: the destructive behavior and you feel like you're getting attacked,
Speaker 2: you're going to go in to shell and probably do
Speaker 2: more of that destructive behavior. But it's I think it's
Speaker 2: human nature to lash out at that moment when they're low,
Speaker 2: as opposed to fighting your tongue and waiting until they're
Speaker 2: more I guess, approachable and have there what's about them
Speaker 2: when they're sober and saying, hey, listen, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to attack you. Is like I'm just I feel worried
Speaker 2: when you know you're drinking or smoking or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: And how do we you know, how do we work
Speaker 2: through this?
Speaker 11: Do you?
Speaker 2: And it's really now because you could absolutely push that
Speaker 2: person away too, which is the last thing you want, right.
Speaker 6: That's right?
Speaker 10: And I mean I really like what you said. It's
Speaker 10: human nature because we have to remember this addiction is
Speaker 10: not just making the person who suffer, who has the
Speaker 10: addiction suffer. You're also suffering, right, So, like you're in
Speaker 10: pain and you're scared, and you're sad and you're angry,
Speaker 10: and it's human nature to laugh out at that time. Unfortunately,
Speaker 10: human nature doesn't serve us well in this moment. And
Speaker 10: so I know it's not an easy ask that I'm
Speaker 10: making which is like calm down, cowcatin until there's a
Speaker 10: calm moment, bring it up in the one moment when
Speaker 10: things are going well and you feel like I hate
Speaker 10: to ruin this moment. And so this is why we
Speaker 10: always say, like, get support.
Speaker 5: And place for you yourself.
Speaker 10: Also, even if your person is not going to treatment,
Speaker 10: get support in place for yourself, because this illness is
Speaker 10: also making use.
Speaker 2: Of Nazeca Harrison is here. She's co founder or chief
Speaker 2: medical officer at Eleanor Health. They do outpatient addiction treatment
Speaker 2: PROGRAMM here in Ohio, and talking about this. It's not
Speaker 2: often talked about, but there's something like seventeen million children
Speaker 2: and therefore tens of thousands in our listening area right
Speaker 2: now listening where children ado lessons are living with a
Speaker 2: parent who has a substance abuse problem. Normally we think
Speaker 2: it was, hey, my kid goes to school and they
Speaker 2: getting on with the wrong crowd and they become drug
Speaker 2: addicts or something happens in their life, and now I've
Speaker 2: got to get help for my kid. And it's just
Speaker 2: as common to have it the other way, where it's
Speaker 2: a parent or a loved one that's doing this and
Speaker 2: the child recognizes the behavior, How do you get that
Speaker 2: person the help that they need. I think it's easier
Speaker 2: from the parental role for a child to intervene, But
Speaker 2: a child intervening on the half of adult seems really
Speaker 2: really hard for them to do and overwhelming. So when
Speaker 2: this thing escalates, and thing it into a safety situation,
Speaker 2: a dangerous situation that escalates, that changes a whole bunch
Speaker 2: of stuff, because that kind of behavior doesn't always happen
Speaker 2: that way, but as the addiction becomes more and more serious,
Speaker 2: it does because that person chooses the drug over the family,
Speaker 2: over the kid, over the What do you do in
Speaker 2: a situation where it becomes dangerous?
Speaker 3: How does a kid prepare for that?
Speaker 10: It's so difficult, And I hate to put the responsibility
Speaker 10: on the kid, right, I know, right, that's so bad.
Speaker 10: I know, it's so tricky. It's so tricky. This is
Speaker 10: where other adults in that south life have to take
Speaker 10: on some responsibility. So I ask people to think of
Speaker 10: it the same way you think about any other crivent
Speaker 10: illness that is riting through their home. So say a
Speaker 10: parent has a heart attack, or has a stroke, or
Speaker 10: has a seizure disorder, develop cancer, You hope there are
Speaker 10: other adults in that south life that can be there
Speaker 10: as a courss before and one of the things we
Speaker 10: do human nature with all illnesses, but especially with addiction,
Speaker 10: is like not recognize it until it's severe. And so
Speaker 10: if we can teach kids to recognize kind of the
Speaker 10: signs before the safety it meant happens and have a
Speaker 10: plan in place, so if at any point you feel unsafe,
Speaker 10: this is who you call, whether that's nine one one,
Speaker 10: whether that's a trusted adult, whether that's you tell someone
Speaker 10: at school, whether that's a friend's house. This is who
Speaker 10: you call, This is where you go, this is.
Speaker 5: What you say.
Speaker 10: Having that plan laid out, this is who you text
Speaker 10: in twenty twenty five right, having that plan laid out
Speaker 10: in at van so the child is not having to
Speaker 10: figure that out in the midst of a crisis. It's
Speaker 10: the same reason we have airplane pilots, these simulations our crashes.
Speaker 10: Is why race car drivers practice on the track so
Speaker 10: that in the moment you don't have to figure it out.
Speaker 10: But Scott, what that takes is acknowledging we see that
Speaker 10: your parent has this illness, and we're acknowledging that we
Speaker 10: need to put a safety plan in place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and so it's so sickening and horrifying to
Speaker 2: even have to talk about that right now with you
Speaker 2: and Zinga. Do we have And by the way, speaking
Speaker 2: of treatment, I know that that you guys at the
Speaker 2: Eleanor here in Ohio, that it's an outpatient edition treatment program.
Speaker 2: There's you guys doing it, and of course we have
Speaker 2: the Linder Center here and a bunch of it. But
Speaker 2: are there enough badgs, are enough facilities to treat this
Speaker 2: in Ohio?
Speaker 10: No, there is a definite lack of treatment access in Ohio,
Speaker 10: even though they're, like you said, tons of folks that
Speaker 10: are doing great work. And that's really why we found
Speaker 10: at Eleanor Health. It is because of this lack of access.
Speaker 10: And we specifically we're in eight different states, and we
Speaker 10: specifically chose Ohio because of the high rate of addiction and.
Speaker 5: The low access to care.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 5: And so one of the things that we do that's
Speaker 5: really differently we don't have that.
Speaker 10: We're outpatients and so you you stay, you're able to
Speaker 10: go to work, you're able to be at home with
Speaker 10: your family. And we also serve the entire state of
Speaker 10: Ohio virtually, and so we have many people who go
Speaker 10: to work and then connect to us on their lunch
Speaker 10: break or connect to us before work or they're at home.
Speaker 10: It gives us access to be able to support the family.
Speaker 10: It makes you not have to leave for a month
Speaker 10: and not have wages to be in salary to be
Speaker 10: able to support your family. And so it's a full
Speaker 10: model that really starts with compassion and expertise in this
Speaker 10: illness of addiction and is empowering people to understand how
Speaker 10: to live their lives.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, I guess you too, as long as you
Speaker 2: catch it earlier, right, because the longer you're in you're
Speaker 2: going to need inpatient where you're you know, doing like
Speaker 2: a thirty day forty day plan or something like that.
Speaker 2: Whereas if you catch us early enough, you can do
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, you know, virtual sessions and outpatient treatment
Speaker 2: and get your mind.
Speaker 3: But you got to do it. You got to do
Speaker 3: it now again and singing Harrison, thanks, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 10: I just wanted to say, make it, make it a sandwich.
Speaker 10: So people also take thirty days and in your cures.
Speaker 10: I want people to understand addiction like diabetes. So sometimes
Speaker 10: your diabetes takes you to the hospital. That's a thirty
Speaker 10: day residential disorder. So when you get out of the hospital,
Speaker 10: your treatment of diabetes is not over.
Speaker 5: You need a long term partner.
Speaker 10: Eleanor Health is that long term partner early before you
Speaker 10: need the hospital. And also, i'm sorry, a hospital residential,
Speaker 10: but also long term after you get out of hospital
Speaker 10: or residential. Sure to keep the illness intermission.
Speaker 2: It's the medicine basically, and Singer Harrison, co founder in
Speaker 2: chief medical office at Eleanor Health. They do Outfai didiction
Speaker 2: treatment program in Ohio virtually too as well. She has
Speaker 2: a book called An Addiction Too, by the way, that
Speaker 2: I just learned about. So and said all the best.
Speaker 2: I hope to maybe we'll talk again in the future.
Speaker 2: But thanks again for jumping on the show.
Speaker 10: Thank you so much, Scott. You're saving lives with this show.
Speaker 10: Really appreciated.
Speaker 3: Oh you're sweet.
Speaker 7: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Glad to help. It's a small part.
Speaker 2: We got a news update. We'll get to that in
Speaker 2: just about four minutes here on this Thursday morning. Scott's
Speaker 2: Sloan Show continues on seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 3: The bells.
Speaker 12: Do you hear the bells?
Speaker 1: It could only mean one thing.
Speaker 12: It's real estate time.
Speaker 8: With Michelle Sloane Remax, time agent and proprietor of sloan
Speaker 8: Sellshomes dot Com. Heed her words or face her wrath
Speaker 8: on seven hundred Wlwige.
Speaker 12: Well, it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood?
Speaker 1: Is that it is?
Speaker 2: I was talking to our health and fitness doctor Sanjay
Speaker 2: earlier in the show, and we're talking about the sleep thing,
Speaker 2: and I brought up the story that our dog does
Speaker 2: not have a watch apparently, and he normally has a
Speaker 2: five And I'll be damn that dog knows exactly when
Speaker 2: it's five o'clock, like sometimes a little early, sometimes a
Speaker 2: couple of minutes after, but within about a ten minute
Speaker 2: window at the top of the hour, right around between
Speaker 2: four fifty and five ten, I'll be damned if he's
Speaker 2: not poking at as food bowl, dragging around the kitch,
Speaker 2: go on, it's time eight, let's go. And now he's
Speaker 2: doing that at four o'clock because he doesn't know the
Speaker 2: time changed. And I was asking, how exactly do you
Speaker 2: adjust the food schedule? But dogs Lug's rhythm were me off.
Speaker 2: It's like he gets all pissed off because he's not
Speaker 2: getting his food at the right time.
Speaker 11: I don't know you were mad at me last night
Speaker 11: because I went to bed at eight thirty. I said,
Speaker 11: it's I'm tired.
Speaker 3: I don't care. You gotta plow through it. Woman, come on, no.
Speaker 2: Eight thirty and she's in bed. I'm like, is this
Speaker 2: what it's come to? I'm not sleeping, And then the
Speaker 2: lights went off. Are you you're going to bed?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 11: No, no, I'm just I'm just laying here. Eyes are open, yeah,
Speaker 11: I my eyes are open underneath my eyelids.
Speaker 3: But you'll still sleep till seven thirty.
Speaker 12: So I don't understand how I was up this morning
Speaker 12: at six. Okay, I was up when you were up
Speaker 12: this morning.
Speaker 11: I actually was up in the middle of the night
Speaker 11: because then, you know, I think I fell asleep for
Speaker 11: about an hour and then I woke up.
Speaker 12: It almost took a pre sleep nap.
Speaker 11: Yes, I haven't done one of those for a while,
Speaker 11: but this it felt like it was so late last night.
Speaker 2: Just now when it gets clided me this weekend with
Speaker 2: the rain coming in and stuff like that, and it's
Speaker 2: going to get cold, so yeah, that's what we're going
Speaker 2: to wind up doing. Sometimes, you know, spend time in
Speaker 2: the house and nest a little bit I got, you know,
Speaker 2: from moving in August. We still have tons of boxes
Speaker 2: of stuff to put away, which I'll probably start cracking
Speaker 2: on this weekend because you know, a little less football
Speaker 2: this weekend for sure with the buys. So I feel
Speaker 2: I want to be productive this weekend. And also it's
Speaker 2: some people this time of years, like I am inside anyway,
Speaker 2: I might as well do a little home improvement type
Speaker 2: of projects and stuff. That leads us in today's topic, Well,
Speaker 2: it's called fixer upper regret. What to know before taking
Speaker 2: on a major renovation. And you know, we have taken
Speaker 2: on so many major renovations in our homes over the years,
Speaker 2: over the course of the last thirty years, and it
Speaker 2: inevitably one thing leads to another, leads to another, leads
Speaker 2: to another.
Speaker 12: So it's not just let's paint the bathroom or something.
Speaker 11: It's like, oh, let's rip out the cabinetry and let's
Speaker 11: put new and let's move this, and let's do that.
Speaker 11: So you know, if it's be as something or anything
Speaker 11: beyond just cosmetic, you really have to know what the
Speaker 11: heck you're getting into because it can't add up financially
Speaker 11: really really quickly.
Speaker 3: I will say that the two biggest one.
Speaker 2: The number one biggest one would be a kitchen remodel,
Speaker 2: having done that before myself, and you know, cabinets and
Speaker 2: all that, and it takes a while, especially if you're
Speaker 2: doing it, you know, after work between things. It dragged
Speaker 2: because you know, the microwave goes another room and you're
Speaker 2: eating out a lot and it's like, okay, when can
Speaker 2: I get my kitchen back and get all the cabinets
Speaker 2: and all that stuff. That takes a while. And the
Speaker 2: other one would be a bathrooms. Now, if you have houses,
Speaker 2: a lot of houses too have multiple bathrooms, you're good.
Speaker 2: But if you have one bathroom and you're remodeling it,
Speaker 2: that's a huge problem. So those two rooms right there,
Speaker 2: you've got to come up with an alternative. And I
Speaker 2: don't know if you call rumpkey and get a porta
Speaker 2: potty out back, but now you're doing that, so and
Speaker 2: where you're going to shower and bathe. That's yeah, I think,
Speaker 2: which is why a lot of these companies are the
Speaker 2: other one day kitchens, the one day bathrooms. That's why,
Speaker 2: because man, you with one of those two rooms or
Speaker 2: both those rooms out, you know, you may want to
Speaker 2: think about getting a hotel while that's getting.
Speaker 11: Done, absolutely, So you do have to look at the scope.
Speaker 11: If you're going to hire it done, it will probably
Speaker 11: get done quicker. If you're going to try to do
Speaker 11: it yourself. No, if know your role, as you will say,
Speaker 11: know what you are capable of, because I've seen so
Speaker 11: many projects and I know a lot of my contractor
Speaker 11: friends have said, yeah, my DIY owner tried to get
Speaker 11: this done himself and now it's costing him double or
Speaker 11: triple because of the way it wasn't done correctly. So
Speaker 11: you really want to ask yourself why why are you renovating?
Speaker 11: Is it for comfort? Is resale value? Functionality? As we
Speaker 11: get older, you know you need to put in maybe
Speaker 11: some don't. You may even need to put in some
Speaker 11: ramps for the older appearance or something like that. So
Speaker 11: what kind of project are you doing, what kind of
Speaker 11: satisfaction are you looking for?
Speaker 12: And then what kind of a budget do you have?
Speaker 12: So setting a realistic budget.
Speaker 11: Budget always add what did they say twenty percent to
Speaker 11: at budget right, because homeowners often underestimate the total cost
Speaker 11: by between fifteen and thirty percent, So you always want
Speaker 11: to make sure and be careful. And I know that
Speaker 11: people have done this too, maxing out your home equity
Speaker 11: or your credit cards.
Speaker 12: You're like, oh, just.
Speaker 11: One more thing, Oh just one more thing, or I
Speaker 11: need it, I need it to be perfect. I want
Speaker 11: the most expensive light fixtures, and I want the most
Speaker 11: expensive polls and on these cabinets. And you know, there
Speaker 11: is a point where you could over improve your property.
Speaker 11: And when you overimprove, that just means that you are
Speaker 11: spending more money. Then you're going to be able to
Speaker 11: get back on that property, and that you know that
Speaker 11: if you're okay and you're going to be living there,
Speaker 11: you're going to be enjoying it.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 11: That's the same thing with like, if you're going to
Speaker 11: put a pool in your backyard and you're going to
Speaker 11: enjoy it, it's going to cost some money, but if
Speaker 11: you're going to enjoy it, and then you may take
Speaker 11: a hit on resale, you're not going to get one
Speaker 11: hundred percent back on a lot of your major renovations.
Speaker 11: So if you're going to be putting in a new
Speaker 11: kitchen and new cabinets and new flooring and new counters
Speaker 11: and all that stuff, you're spending one hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 11: on your kitchen, but you live in a three hundred
Speaker 11: thousand dollars home. That's something you really really need to
Speaker 11: scale back there.
Speaker 2: At that point, it's like, well, maybe i'd be looking
Speaker 2: at a new house as opposed to remodeling spending that
Speaker 2: kind of money the value of the house I'm going
Speaker 2: to put just in the kitchen now, grant, I'm sure
Speaker 2: it's going to be a spectacular kitchen. And the other thing, too,
Speaker 2: is you tend to not stick with the plan because
Speaker 2: you see things and like, especially if you're indecisive, contractors
Speaker 2: up to a certain point, love them and then after
Speaker 2: a certain point hate them. Are called change order. So
Speaker 2: when you have a change order, that adds a lot
Speaker 2: more cost to the job than if it were factored
Speaker 2: in the first place, because you're already in the process
Speaker 2: of doing things and you go, okay, well what if
Speaker 2: we actually made this a I was thinking to make
Speaker 2: this a pantry in the kitchen instead of you know,
Speaker 2: it's just going to cost you more money, and you
Speaker 2: can you can drive your contractor crazy without those change orders.
Speaker 2: You are to drive yourself poor by doing that a
Speaker 2: lot too. So come up with a plan and stick
Speaker 2: with it no matter what you see.
Speaker 11: Just focus on the finish, and you may not realize,
Speaker 11: depending on the age of your home, once you get
Speaker 11: into any remodeling project whatsoever, you may not realize that
Speaker 11: what's actually behind the walls. Maybe there was another remodeling
Speaker 11: project that somebody just covered up, or or maybe it
Speaker 11: was wiring or some sort of structural issues behind that wall.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 11: You see that on some of those dumb home improvement
Speaker 11: shows when they're taking their sledgehammer and oh, look, we're
Speaker 11: gonna take out this wall.
Speaker 12: Oh no, look what we found.
Speaker 2: I got my skinny jeans, my new tool belt on,
Speaker 2: my brand new sledgehammer, my glasses, and I don't have
Speaker 2: a speca dust on me.
Speaker 3: How is that possible?
Speaker 11: I don't know how that's possible, But yeah, I mean
Speaker 11: I've had some people, especially with older homes in Cincinnati,
Speaker 11: tear out some of the ceiling and finding an a massive, enormous,
Speaker 11: gorgeous ceiling above. And why would somebody cover something like
Speaker 11: that up? Probably energy efficiency, you know, maybe they had
Speaker 11: a leak at some point, who knows. But you could
Speaker 11: find some really beautiful especially in the older homes in Cincinnati.
Speaker 11: You can find some really good surprises, or you can
Speaker 11: fight some really nasty supply.
Speaker 2: Some older homes and you know, the seventies were sixty
Speaker 2: seventies like an architectural nightmare. They come and put these
Speaker 2: fake ceiling and pull them back. It's like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: look at this gorgeous eight inch crown molding and they
Speaker 2: covered their ashes. It's like that wasn't the esthetic then,
Speaker 2: and now that's all vogue. And you come back and wow,
Speaker 2: I can reclaim that are floors, you know, you pull
Speaker 2: that carpet and see these beautiful inlaid floors. They need Yeah,
Speaker 2: they need some love and some work. But I've seen
Speaker 2: people and there's plenty of good companies in Cincinnati to
Speaker 2: do it, and contract is to do that will restore
Speaker 2: those floors. Now, it'll cost you a little bit about
Speaker 2: my god, what a show piece is going to add
Speaker 2: so much valuable home because it's the original stuff. You
Speaker 2: can't replace that, like older houses.
Speaker 11: With hardwood floors, especially, so many hardwood floors in Cincinnati
Speaker 11: have been covered up with carpet. And you've got some
Speaker 11: tax strips, you've got some holes. But for the most part,
Speaker 11: you know, people felt like carpet was a new thing.
Speaker 11: It was nice, it was warm. But now guess what
Speaker 11: the hardwood is back, and that hardwood is real all
Speaker 11: the way hardwood.
Speaker 12: It's not like the veneer that we have today.
Speaker 11: So when you have those older homes, like I said,
Speaker 11: there's there can be some really good surprises, but nine
Speaker 11: times out of ten surprises will cost you money. So
Speaker 11: make sure prepare financially when you go into a renovation.
Speaker 11: If you're going to hire a contractor, talk to a
Speaker 11: couple different ones, make sure that you're doing your due
Speaker 11: diligence because the worst thing that could happen is a
Speaker 11: contractor shows up the first day, starts doing demo and
Speaker 11: then he or she is gone for three months and
Speaker 11: you're left with an absolute disaster of a mess. And
Speaker 11: we've heard those horror stories as well. So do your
Speaker 11: due diligence. If you're hiring somebody, make sure that you
Speaker 11: are understanding the true scope of the work. Make sure
Speaker 11: that you're hiring someone who's reputable, who's going to show up,
Speaker 11: who will give you a timeline and a deadline of
Speaker 11: when it can be done. And then just be careful
Speaker 11: to not over improve. Don't try to. If you want
Speaker 11: the best of the best and you want the high
Speaker 11: end everything, do you live in a high end home,
Speaker 11: and does it really make sense?
Speaker 12: And that's hard for people to take on that.
Speaker 2: Sure, Now, if you're going to stay there forever, maybe
Speaker 2: you can recoup those costs down the line, I suppose,
Speaker 2: or if money's no objects.
Speaker 3: But that's a very few.
Speaker 12: People, that is absolutely And then you have to know
Speaker 12: when to stop.
Speaker 11: You know, if the costs are getting too great, and
Speaker 11: the project feels absolutely endless, like it's been years and
Speaker 11: I've had people say it's taken me over a year
Speaker 11: to get this project project finished, you may want to
Speaker 11: just pause, reassess, and you know, put a stop to
Speaker 11: it and stop the bleeding.
Speaker 12: You know, I think there was a money pit.
Speaker 3: Is that a yeah, there's a move Tom Hanks movie
Speaker 3: from back in day.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But and especially today as we talk about renovation, regret,
Speaker 2: fixer up or regret with my wife Michelle Sloan, Uh,
Speaker 2: It's it's interesting, you know, we people are like jumping
Speaker 2: into houses.
Speaker 10: Now.
Speaker 2: It's like, okay, well I got to find the right
Speaker 2: house because now as we're back to a you know,
Speaker 2: a buyer's market, I picked the right house I got
Speaker 2: to get and you know, you pick something go well,
Speaker 2: you know, what it's.
Speaker 3: It's I like the bones of it. I like the location.
Speaker 2: It's in the right school district, it's close to work,
Speaker 2: close to high whatever it is, you know, we can
Speaker 2: work around that. We'll just remodel it. And there's people
Speaker 2: doing that too. But you know, sometimes you jump in
Speaker 2: and buy the house and I realize there's a lot
Speaker 2: of problems behind those walls.
Speaker 11: Exactly, and then listen to the experts. So I'm going
Speaker 11: to tell you a quick story about a client of
Speaker 11: mine who was looking at a property in Mount Adams
Speaker 11: and it had a gorgeous view and it was a
Speaker 11: really cool, unique property, but the darn foundation was falling
Speaker 11: off the side of the hill. And she wanted this
Speaker 11: property so bad, she said, but look, but look, but
Speaker 11: she didn't see what could be. And if you're looking
Speaker 11: at find foundation issues, that can be thousands of thousands
Speaker 11: of dollars before you even get to the fun stuff.
Speaker 12: And so that's where you have to be, you know.
Speaker 2: And for me, it showed me a picture of that
Speaker 2: house idea, and I was looking at it and I
Speaker 2: just looked the pictures of the back yard ago I
Speaker 2: wouldn't touch that because you know, the walls are both
Speaker 2: there's you know, four by four and like we just
Speaker 2: had a deck collapse, and and Clifton at the you
Speaker 2: know at you see with those kids college students and
Speaker 2: what ten people hurt. I'm looking at this going wow,
Speaker 2: that's way undersize, and it just it looked janky just
Speaker 2: from a photo which was I don't like one hundred
Speaker 2: yards away. I mean, I'd have to drive out there
Speaker 2: and look at the go. Yeah, better have some money
Speaker 2: if you're gonna buy that.
Speaker 11: I don't like to be the bad guy because if
Speaker 11: you let your emotions, you know, ruled the equation, you
Speaker 11: could regret it, because then financially, you're gonna go back
Speaker 11: and you're gonna look at the person who sold you
Speaker 11: the property or helped you buy the property and say, Michelle,
Speaker 11: why did you make me buy that?
Speaker 12: I'm like, oh wait a minute.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 11: You have to be careful and listen to the people
Speaker 11: around you because being in the business as long as
Speaker 11: I have and you have, and we know, we know
Speaker 11: there are some things that no matter how beautiful the
Speaker 11: view is, it just may not be worth it.
Speaker 12: So you have to be realistic.
Speaker 11: And being realistic is oftentimes it's not as fun as
Speaker 11: just being a dreamer and enjoying a motion of it.
Speaker 2: It's like when you bought your first car because the radio,
Speaker 2: the stereo was good.
Speaker 3: That's what it's like.
Speaker 2: My wife Michelle Sloan slon sellslmes dot com Open House
Speaker 2: show that's on the iHeartRadio app, the podcast as well
Speaker 2: as on YouTube too, and she's at Remax time in
Speaker 2: Mainfel slon sells homes dot com. All Right, Olby, I
Speaker 2: gotta go, I gotta go go feed the dog.
Speaker 12: Okay, it's not time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well ask Kim many time. It's a good time
Speaker 2: to eat. It's like me, like as owner. We've got
Speaker 2: news on the way in just minutes. Willie takes over
Speaker 2: on the Home of the Best Bengals covered seven hundred
Speaker 2: ww since that