1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Window opens tomorrow afternoon. So let's talk Bengals and Trey 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Hendrickson and possibilities and go straight to the man on 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: the beat for the Bengals for ESPN ESPN dot com. 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: That would be Ben Baby. 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 2: How are you Lance? I'm doing fantastic. How are you doing? 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: I am well, great to catch up with you. I 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: appreciate your time. So that the tagging tray would cost 8 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: them thirty point two million dollars for one year based 9 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: on the current economic structures, is that a viable option 10 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: in your mind for the Bengals. 11 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: I don't think so. And when you look at it, 12 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 2: I think if you were to take this in a 13 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 2: vacuum and say, listen, if you get somebody at Trey 14 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,880 Speaker 2: Hendrickson's production profile and get him on a one year deal, 15 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 2: does that make sense? You say, sure, But there's so 16 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,959 Speaker 2: many other things to consider. First. You have to look 17 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: at it, and you got to remember, Trey will be 18 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 2: turning thirty two next year. He's coming off a year 19 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 2: where he was kind of plagued by injuries, had that 20 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 2: core slash, backslash, who knows what else it was the 21 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 2: issue that he did come back and try to play 22 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: through reaggravated it and then did not play the rest 23 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: of the season. Was and talks about potentially a trade 24 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: before the deadline that did not materialize. And if you're 25 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 2: the Bengals, you look at it and as Duke Tobin 26 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 2: pointed out, the last time these two two sides try 27 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,479 Speaker 2: to negotiate, it did not go very smoothly, and Trey 28 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 2: held out going into training camp. And so if you 29 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 2: have the tag, you run the risk of that prolonging 30 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 2: and really kind of messing with the vibes, as silly 31 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,919 Speaker 2: as that might sounded through the offseason. But more importantly 32 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 2: is that you have to look at the financial standpoint 33 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 2: of it. And if you're Trey Hendrickson, most players would 34 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: not necessarily like the franchise tag. But if you're Trey 35 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 2: turning thirty two ranks, which you've got to remember, this 36 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: is thirty million dollars guaranteed. I don't know if Trey 37 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,199 Speaker 2: Hendrickson is getting that money guaranteed on the open market. 38 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: Even if he say, let's just make up numbers and 39 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 2: say he gets a three year deal worth ninety million dollars, 40 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 2: if he's still going to get thirty million guaranteed, I 41 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 2: think that remains to be seen. So that's actually a 42 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: pretty good deal for someone at that point. So I 43 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 2: think that if you're the Bengals, do you want to 44 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 2: commit that money? Maybe not find a trade partner for 45 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 2: him if you want to execute the tag and trade 46 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 2: that becomes tricky. So a lot of moving parts to 47 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: consider when you talk about the franchise tag. 48 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: That last part is what I was going to ask next, 49 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: because I get very confused by this Ben and I 50 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: need somebody smarter than I. So I'm going to ask you, 51 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: is rather than letting him walk, is a tag in 52 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: trade a possibility? 53 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 2: It is, but you have to find a team who's 54 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 2: willing to trade, who's going to a you know, want 55 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 2: to give Trey a long term deal and rework that. 56 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 2: Then they would rip up the tag so it becomes irrelevant. 57 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: And then they would go in and he would likely 58 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: get more money than he would get on the tag. 59 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: And so I think a team would be having to be, 60 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: you know, want to give him a long term investment. 61 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: But my question, Lance is in all of this, wouldn't 62 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: the team have already done this? I mean he's been 63 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 2: on the trading block, yeah, for over a year now. 64 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 2: I mean what has changed except for him getting older 65 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 2: and getting more getting injured, that would help this trade 66 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 2: stop moving forward. So if there is a trade partner 67 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 2: magically that has appeared that is going to give the 68 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 2: Bengals something that they're going to like, you know, I 69 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 2: think that would be very surprising at this stage, given 70 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: that this is not a new development. Going back to 71 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 2: last year, Katie Blackburn, I heard her say it herself 72 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 2: when we were at owners meetings last year at West 73 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: Palm Beach said, listen, you know, if there's someone you 74 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 2: know will entertain all offers, we'll see what happens. And 75 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 2: you know, there's got to be a number that Trady's 76 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: going to want to be happy at too. So I 77 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 2: think there's so many parts go into this conversation, but 78 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: talking about the trade like it hasn't been an option 79 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: had the right deal presented itself. I think that remains 80 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 2: one of the more puzzling things to me is that 81 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 2: you know, yes, you could theoretically execute this tag and trade, 82 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: but again, you have to have a team that's willing 83 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 2: to give the Bengals compensation that they're looking for and 84 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 2: also be willing to take on a sizeable salary for 85 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: somebody who is thirty thirty. 86 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: Two been assuming they would have trades money to play with. 87 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: Can they fix Can they fix this defense enough in 88 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: one off season? 89 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think they can. I think if you go 90 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 2: out and you make a concerted effort to try to add, 91 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: you know, splash players at every level, and you go 92 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: back to twenty twenty one. In twenty the Bengals were 93 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: able to do this. Now, they did stack two off 94 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: seasons together, and they were able to get DJ Reader 95 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, and they kind of paid him a 96 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: lot of money, something that people did not talk about 97 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 2: at the time. They overpaid for DJ and I remember 98 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: talking to him about it. He said, listen, then the 99 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 2: Bengals ended up giving me three million dollars, more than 100 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 2: anybody else. And I said, was that a big deal? 101 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 2: He goes, yeah, three million, three millions, And so I'm not, 102 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 2: you know, And I think at that point they really 103 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 2: needed to show that they were going to best in 104 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 2: the franchise when Joe Burrow arrived in the draft a 105 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 2: couple of months later, and so they did that in 106 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 2: twenty twenty, and they got von Bell as well, and 107 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 2: then in twenty twenty one they go out and they 108 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: they get Trey Hendrickson, they draft really well, and you know, 109 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 2: you had a lot of good things come together. I 110 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 2: think if you're able to replicate that in terms of 111 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 2: finding guys that you know, maybe undervalued in the market 112 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: that can come in and compete immediately, be starters, be 113 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: key depth players, I think that makes a defense a 114 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 2: lot better. You saw growth from Al Golden's unit towards 115 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 2: the back half of that year, and if you get 116 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 2: more development from the younger players like Miles Murphy, you 117 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: get more from samar Stewart, see how the linebackers continue 118 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: to develop because they had such a tough task last 119 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 2: year as rookies to come in and be starters. I 120 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 2: think there are ways for this unit to get better, 121 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 2: and I think that's going to be paramount for them 122 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:32,480 Speaker 2: moving forward. 123 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: You have written a fantastic piece earlier this month about 124 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: the offense and tapping into explosive plays, Ben, how do 125 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 1: they do that? 126 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 2: This is the big question. I think that when you 127 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: look at everyone's talking about the defense, and the defense 128 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 2: does need to get better, but offensively, Lance, we're gonna 129 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 2: look at all the resources that have invested in the 130 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 2: offensive side of the ball. They Pay, Joe Burrow, Pager more, 131 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 2: Chase PAYT Higgins, and you're expecting this offense to really 132 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 2: go out and top and the off defensive line. We 133 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 2: saw them play as well as they ever have under 134 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 2: Zach Taylor in his during his tenure. You have Chase Brown, 135 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 2: who could be coming up on a good second contract 136 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:11,679 Speaker 2: for a running back. You've got a lot of really 137 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 2: good pieces there, and for whatever reason, they just have 138 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 2: not been able to get those big plays. And when 139 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 2: I went back and charted it in our ESPN data base, 140 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 2: you know, I looked and saw that Los Angeles was 141 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 2: up there, New England up there, Seattle up there, and 142 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 2: those are teams playing for Super Bowls. And when the 143 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 2: Bengals played for Super Bowl in twenty twenty one, guess 144 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 2: what they were in the top ten in that explosive 145 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: play rate. And they just have not been there. And 146 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: I get the teams have tried to take away the 147 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 2: deep ball to Jamar Chase and T Higgins and made 148 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 2: sure that they did not get beat on those deep passes. 149 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 2: That really what the Bengals thrived on in twenty twenty one. 150 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 2: But you still have to find ways to go out 151 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 2: and manufacture those plays. I think that's going to be 152 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: a big point of emphasis. Something will talk to Zach 153 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 2: Taylor Andrew Tobin about and Dan Pitcher as well, the 154 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 2: Bengals offensive coordinator in Indianapolis next week. How can they 155 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 2: unlock some of these offensive players, because yes, they are 156 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 2: being productive, they have the accolade, they have the numbers. 157 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 2: But in terms of those big explosive plays, I think 158 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: when you look at it, that's what you need to 159 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 2: really be successful at a high level, and the Bengals 160 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 2: are expecting that given how much they pay their offensive stars. 161 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 1: Love it, love talking Bengals. You are all over it. 162 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: For those listening who want more, tell them how they 163 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: can follow and read. 164 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: Yeah on ESPN dot com. Just download the app. We've 165 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 2: got a lot of good stuff on there. On Instagram 166 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 2: to be baby forty one, I'm all over the place. Lance. 167 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 2: You got to adapt with the kids these days. 168 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: I hear that. Hey, you're the man. I know you're busy. 169 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: I appreciate you making. 170 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 2: Time tonight, of course, thank you. 171 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: All right, thanks Ben. There you go, BENBABYESPN dot Com 172 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: again tomorrow. I think it's four o'clock. The window opens 173 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: two week franchise tag window for Trey. If it's tag, 174 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: he's in, it's one year, thirty point two million dollars 175 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: still ahead. Let's take it to the hoop around the 176 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: corner from Red's conversation. We'll go wall to all Reds 177 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: coming up seven h five up next to You're gonna 178 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: hear from West Miller. You're gonna hear from Richard Patino. 179 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: You're gonna hear what Travis Steele has uh has said 180 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: he will do if dot dot dot dot dot that, 181 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: and more as we roll on with r L Carrier 182 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: Sports Talk presented by Kelsey Chevrolet seven hundred w l 183 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: W