1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: You're the smiling Assassin strikes again Leader fan Fan Radio Network, 2 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: change this pace and k fa N dot Com. Two 3 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: minutes and forty seven seconds past the hour of three 4 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: o'clock Central daylight time, we welcome you back to a 5 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: midweek edition of the highly controversial, occasionally combustible Afternoon Ardvark 6 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: here on a well barely balmy Wednesday afternoon here in 7 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: the twin cities of Minneapolis and Saint Paul. My name 8 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: is Dan Barrero, the host of the program guards. He 9 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: produces the show. And are we going to six fifteen today, 10 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: six thirty seven, six o'clock, six thirty, six thirty. Yeah, 11 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: full show, full program today between down six thirty, bratsh 12 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: on Brian Kafan text line will be read voted here 13 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: shortly at six four six eight six, and we come 14 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: to find out that the state of hockey is under 15 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: construction at least and at the college level. Yesterday we 16 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: learned that your guy, Brad Frost was dismissed after what 17 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: did you tell me nineteen years? Yes years, nineteen years 18 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: he is out. We got a lot of snarky texts yesterday, 19 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: including what I read to Luigi saying that the wrong 20 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: hockey coach was dismissed. Moscow has been in the meat 21 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: grinder among a certain segment of the hockey population for 22 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: the entire pretty much the entire season, I would say, 23 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: And we come to find out today that it's being 24 00:01:54,240 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: described as mutual agreement. University of Minnesota agreed to and 25 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: Moscow agreed to a parting of the ways between the 26 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: two of them. Eight years, eight years, eight years here 27 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: never won at all, but reached the championship game once correct, Yes, 28 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: lost in over here, lost it was ahead, and then 29 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 1: going to the third pariod correct, devastating, devastating loss, more 30 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: devastating the Holy Cross, Yeah, because the titles on the line. 31 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: That was the first round game. Yeah, but we're never 32 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: supposed to lose in the first round Holy Cross is 33 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: That's not good, it's embarrassing, it's mythic. But that's a 34 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: title game. You're right there. I didn't we lose a 35 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: title game? Did we lose a title game in Lake 36 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: Placid or a semi final game? Because I was there 37 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: for it, I don't remember. That was in the late 38 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: eighties with what it would have been to the Wuger. Yeah, 39 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: I definitely covered a loss, but I can't remember if 40 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: it's I want to say it was the Semis, but 41 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: we'll look that up. But the man responsible your guy 42 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: to a large degree, one could say the what's the 43 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: official title athletic director? Yes, now it's named after Tom Moe, 44 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: because everything has to have a name in college sports. 45 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: So it's the Tom Moe athletic director. And that's he's 46 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: the smiling assassin's been busy on dismissals. I mean, if 47 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: you how many years ago was wit lindsay, whalan let 48 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: go this? This has done plitz White's third year, so 49 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: so three years ago? Then who would have been after that? 50 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: Ben Johnson? Ye? Would have after that? 51 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: Ye? 52 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: And now both hockey coaches. Now you can again say, well, 53 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: this one's mutual, and that that sometimes is set up 54 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: that way to make everybody feel a little bit better 55 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: about the situation. I don't know the backstory. I'm not sure. 56 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's people in the hockey community that can 57 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: perhaps pass along the be glad to give us the 58 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: what we would say, the backstory there, because on the 59 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: hockey community there is no more is it fair to 60 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: say that there's no more opinionated community among all the 61 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: sports teams? As far as I'm getting, they're allowed. Yeah, 62 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: they're a lowed for sure. Am I Are there any 63 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: other dismissals by Mark Coyle, I'm forgetting. I'd have to 64 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: think about it. Football coach has been there for a while. Yep. 65 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: I guess we've kind of covered what would be classified 66 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: as the major sports. So that's how many of the 67 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: individuals that he that he has fired in this group? 68 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: Did the Smiling Assassin also hire? He Hiredal, he hired 69 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: Ben Johnson, Ben Johnson, he hired Moscow. He would have 70 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: had to Wright because he's been here how many years now? 71 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: This is his tenth year? Tenth year? Yeah, and so 72 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,919 Speaker 1: Frost would be the one he inherited. Correct. So the 73 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: question that's always the question, of course that comes up 74 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: is you can look at it two ways. You can say, well, 75 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: if you're ad at a place for a long enough time, 76 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: or a general manager for a long enough time, you're 77 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: going to have to make changes even amongst the people 78 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: you've hired. The other way to look at it is, well, 79 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: at what point do we start reconsidering the individual we've 80 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: put in charge of doing the hiring. Now, the way 81 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: out of that box is if your hire. Replacing the 82 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: individual that you hired the first time is succeeding where 83 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: your first hire didn't. You pretty much save yourself. That 84 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: I think defines the current situation regarding Golden Golf for 85 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: women's basketball and Don plitz Aw correct. They're in the 86 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: tournament for the first time in seven years, hosting first 87 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: and else they win second round games, first round game 88 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: Friday night here as well, and the early indications on 89 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: Nico Medved also positive. He didn't. He certainly hasn't gotten 90 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: the program of the place that Don has yet. But 91 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: even though the record was not all that different than 92 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: Ben Johnson's more recent years, it was after all, Nico's first. 93 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: He had even more injuries than Ben did and still 94 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: found a way most of the season to keep the keep 95 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: him competitive, keep the team competitive through the through the season. 96 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: But now the smiling assassin's on the clock again because 97 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: he's got to hire a women's hockey coach. Unless there's 98 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,679 Speaker 1: some announcement you want to tell me on about today, 99 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: is there already a news? I don't think so. No, 100 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be that fast. I was done sometimes it's fast, 101 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: You're right, I was down on campus today. It didn't Urt. 102 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: Nothing didn't get any indication because Mark sound his way 103 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: to Saint Louis, because he's also right now. So he's 104 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: one of those guys who sits at the scorers table 105 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: and looks official. Yes, correct, it's his last year on 106 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: the NCAA this is it committee. Yeah, so that's that 107 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: revolves you get a certain number, five year commitment I believe. Okay, 108 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:53,119 Speaker 1: you're five for him? Okay, fair enough. And in terms 109 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: of men's hockey, it just was announced. I don't know 110 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: who broke it. Somebody broke it, and then the U 111 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: who almost immediately then confirmed it via press release. Correct, Yeah, 112 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: within a couple of hours. John Butcha gross Butch, your 113 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: guy is that who nailed it? I think that's who 114 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: had it first. Good for him, and then everybody else 115 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: kind of jumped on. Yeah, including the athletic Russo Joe Smith. Yeah, 116 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: I saw that. In fact, they've got DoD they have 117 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: exclusive Moscow quotes in their their piece. I hadn't seen 118 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: the updated one. I'm not sure see if I can 119 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: find it, because Bob put out a statement from the U. 120 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: So I'm assuming that's what that is. Oh, that that 121 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: may have been what it is then, Yeah, that's exactly right. 122 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: I thought maybe it was uh And the statement I 123 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: read basically made it sound like, yeah, I've been doing 124 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: this at one form or another for Was it he 125 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: say forty two years? He's older? Was he like eight 126 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: when he started Hull? He's not that old? Is he? 127 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: He's in his sixties? He in a sixties. He's older 128 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: than he looks Okay, yeah he looks young. I remember, 129 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: you know, is this season was going on, there were 130 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: rumblings about definitely not just what the you wanted to do, 131 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 1: but what Bob wanted to do. Yeah, there were I 132 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: thought some pretty strong rumblings. Yep. Given that I'm not 133 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: super connected to the hockey program. I go to a 134 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: handful of games. I watched them, but in a lot 135 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: of different places you'd hear is this might be it 136 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: for Bob, Like he might just you know, right off 137 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: into the sunset. He's got the world junior coach. Speaking 138 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: of that, did Louie hint at that yesterday? Did Louie 139 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,679 Speaker 1: use the R word when I brought up Moscow yesterday? 140 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: And I missed it. I'm just I look back and 141 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: I think he may have said something like that. I'm 142 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: wondering if Louie broke it, unless I misread what he 143 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: do you recall or you might have even been in 144 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: the other room doing some other production. Yeah, no, I 145 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: don't know. If he said. Somebody who listens more closely 146 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: to the show than I do text me Bratchean Brian 147 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: Kvan text line six four six eight six is I 148 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: thought I remembered after the fact something like that, and 149 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: I said, hmm, I wonder if he knows something well. 150 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: He said something like he's had conversations with Bob about 151 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 1: how much longer he wanted to do any of that, 152 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: If I remember, I thought he used the artwork. He 153 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,079 Speaker 1: may have n't, but I think he was thinking about. 154 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: But I wonder if coming back and finishing it the 155 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: right way and having a better season than they had, well, 156 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: that's the question. I thought, That's what he hinted at. 157 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: The question is that is, do you want even if 158 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: you're frustrated, and even if you think you're close to 159 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: the end, do you want to leave on this kind 160 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: of season. This is a historically bad season for men's 161 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: hockey at the University of Minnesota. It was. There may 162 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: be a million reasons. I get it. People, we've lost 163 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: regrouping the whole bit. But by state of hockey standards, 164 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: it was a bad year. There's not any way about it. 165 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: So then you go with well as you say, do 166 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: you want to leave that? It will be hard getting that. 167 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: Do you need to cleanse the palette with one year 168 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: of rebound even if it doesn't necessarily mean you win 169 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: a title the next year? And he ultimately obviously decided 170 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: no or. And what we don't know is how much 171 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 1: pressure might have been applied on the other side by 172 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 1: the smiling assassin, because he's a mild mannered guy with you, 173 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: but that there's no hesitation, he's ready to go. He 174 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: doesn't mess around, Oh he does. He does not mess 175 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: around some of them, I understand, some of them, perhaps 176 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: not so much. That's the nature of the job. People 177 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: who heard Louis or were listening more closely to Louie 178 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 1: than me, said that what he said yesterday was he 179 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: believe what happened Moscow, that Moscow wanted one last year 180 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: to get to sixty five and then retire. Okay, so 181 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: he didn't go quite as far as I thought for 182 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: for some reason as as well. Rayan Hopkins Coyle has 183 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: also fired entire sports, men's tennis, men's gymnastics, and men's 184 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: track at the U. By the way, are we sure 185 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: that's not a burner account from our gymnastics guy from Bernie? 186 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure Ray and Hopkins isn't like burns. No, no, oh, 187 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: John Rothins, John Roethlisberg, who has never been shy about 188 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: his feelings regarding the u's decision to move away from 189 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: men's gymnastics. Right, do we still have women's yeah, going, yeah, 190 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 1: they're very good men's gymnastics they didn't have. Didn't coil 191 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 1: also inherit and then fire Richard Patino? Yeah, if you 192 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: want to go back further, he did. He fired Richard 193 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: Patino as well. There was I don't think at the time, 194 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 1: I don't think there was a lot of push I 195 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: think there was some pushback on that. I don't think 196 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: it was like everybody who's saying, how dare you? I 197 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: think it was one of those could kind of go 198 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: either way with Richard Patino, as I recall, it wasn't 199 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, eight years years, Yeah it was another Yeah, 200 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: it was it was eight years And so who's the era? 201 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: Who were the you? You you talk to people all 202 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 1: the time, is it Ohio State gal coming back home 203 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: on the women's side, and who is it on the 204 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: men's side. We already know who's the air apparent that 205 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: the hockey community is demanding, because I didn't the hockey 206 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: community demand Moscow at one point? Yes, they did, once 207 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 1: upon a time they said, this is the guy you 208 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: got to go get. And in all honesty, he did 209 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: a really good job. I mean, a couple frozen four 210 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: is going to the tournament like, yes, the place is 211 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: back like his body of the part, Yeah, it is good. Yes, 212 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: obviously the way they lost the title will never be forgiven, right, No, 213 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,719 Speaker 1: people still talking about that. I think there's the is 214 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: it Augustana. I think there's a guy like a Standa, 215 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: that's that's one of us that we like. I think that, yes, okay, 216 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: I think that's who. I'm not the right guy, but 217 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: that big enough, that's true, and he's seen as an 218 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: up and comer. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's who. Probably 219 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: we we just want legends who are already established his legends 220 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,439 Speaker 1: or are there not any left really in the world of 221 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: college hockey. I'm not I'm not the guy to ask. 222 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: I don't know he wanted Bob back in the day, 223 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: he was big time on that. Who does fauled us one? 224 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: Does that matter? He doesn't really care as much about 225 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: college as pro though right he's more pro gang. That 226 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Now, why does say it mattered? I just 227 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: got to curious if he had some idea. Usually the 228 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: the the you know, the what's the Notre Dame big shots, 229 00:12:55,800 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: the rich fat cats they called the Subway alumni that 230 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: supposedly they always have a list, you know, like Gumbele 231 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 1: had his Paul Bears list that at place like Notre Dame, 232 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: they've always got their list of Okay, if I've got 233 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: an opening, if we got an opening at head coach 234 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: at football, here's who's immediately on the list. I'm just 235 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: assuming the hockey insiders, the Gopher Subway alumni always have 236 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: that list at the ready, and that they've they got Moscow. 237 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: But now that's the next man up. And of course 238 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: a lot could have changed about who that would be 239 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: over the course of the eight years that he's been here. 240 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: I'm sure they have their names. Six four six eight 241 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: six is the brats. Shawn Bryant k f an text line. 242 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 1: Remember when whalan left. When Whalen leaving was mutual. Also, well, 243 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: we've we've discussed that with whalan I think there was well, 244 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: do you think that's looking back on it, the fair 245 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: description on Whalen or do you think it was more 246 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: we're gonna do this and we want to give you 247 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: Originally it was going to be an ambassador job, right, 248 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: that was the whole deal. That it was more of 249 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 1: a dismissal than that, or she viewed it that way, 250 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: because when she came in eventually I thought she almost 251 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: seemed relieved that maybe she wasn't quite ready for it, 252 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: or it just didn't feel right or the timing you 253 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: couldn't say. She said, you can't say no to you're 254 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: alma mater, right, even if you don't feel you're technically 255 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: ready for it. But then in the end I thought 256 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: she ended up being relieved. So, but I don't know 257 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: if that was at the moment when it actually happened 258 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: as well, because that was presented as mutual. It was 259 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: lotsco correct. Yes, And then if you recall it was 260 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: just Mark at the press conference, Whalem was supposed to 261 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: be there at last minute, it got changed last minute, 262 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: the back off the elevator. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, I 263 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: think that was not as mutual, but I do think 264 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: as time passed, I think it was, like you say, 265 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: more more relief. All right, let's get an early late 266 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: break in. We'll have a short segment leading to our 267 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: first guest. I'm looking forward to him at three thirty. 268 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: We'll give you details on the three thirty guest. Four 269 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: to thirty guest was just on a week ago, but 270 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: I think circumstances demand that we have him on again. 271 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: And of course the Wednesday regular Pat Kessler, who is 272 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: going to explain the difference between a kickback and fraud. 273 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: I hope he can do it, because no one else 274 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: seems capable of even pretending that there's a meaningful distinction statement. 275 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 2: Comeo. 276 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: Park Garage Guy writes, I was the one who asked 277 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: about Moscow's status yesterday with Luigi, and in hindsight, the 278 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: way he answered seemed as if he was searching for 279 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: an answer, almost like he knew what was coming. And 280 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: obviously he add to have you heard any rumblings Dan 281 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 1: regarding the gooverer is going after former uf M legend 282 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: and current Rogers Bantam double a head coach Grand Rapids 283 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: Grand Grad. I should say, Johnny brill Sell one of 284 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: his buddies. I asked, bring in Pat Firschweiler. Do you 285 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: know him? Pat Firschweiler is Western Michigan guy. Apparently there's 286 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: a lot of votes coming in for I hope I'm 287 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: pronouncing that correctly. Pat Firschweiler. Hockey community likes Garrett the 288 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: Augustana guy. Do you know how to pronounced that? Last name? 289 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: Is our A b o? I I don't for sure. 290 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with that. And first, Weiler is the 291 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: other name from Western Michigan that is coming up a lot, 292 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: a lot. He seems to be among these roubs. The 293 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: one they're most interested in. Ohio State coach Steve Rolick 294 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: or is it Rolick former Hill Hill Murray Alump. That's 295 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: on the men's side, I assume correct, because we've talked 296 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: about the women's coach at Ohio State coming back home 297 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: potentially I have Larry Mindello guy has two great ideas 298 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: for Gopher men's hockey coach. Do you care to guess 299 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: either one of them? Larry Mandela guy. Yes, one of 300 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: them has to be Tony Dungee. Uh. She was the 301 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: other one, Mike Grant. Oh, I should have had that 302 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: one Tony Dungee A well, Dungee's available, he's out of that. 303 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,640 Speaker 1: Is that mutual? It didn't sound like no. I don't 304 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: think it was sound like he wanted to stay. Yeah, 305 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't you? And they didn't as great gig. Former Gopher 306 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: Grant Patolney has been rumored national champion here he's at 307 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: Northern Michigan. I think still is that true? 308 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 3: Yeah? 309 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: I think so. Um Gopher hockey lost to Harvard in 310 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: the late nineteen eighties. He's I think bringing up another 311 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: you were thinking about it? Is that the one I 312 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: was thinking about? I think so, Oh yeah, that may 313 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: have been in Lake Plasto. Did Coyle fire Jay Robinson? 314 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: I think he did? Yes, remember the yeah that was 315 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: that had that had had nothing to do with performance. 316 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: I don't think he would have doubted that he was 317 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: very effective. It was all the ancillary stuff that and 318 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 1: it was it was a volatile issue at the time, 319 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: as you call it. Yes, because Jay Robinson double tripled 320 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 1: and quadrupled down. Are you still around the area? Do 321 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,159 Speaker 1: we know? I don't know, have any idea. I've kind 322 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 1: of lost touch show with him. Lastly, did you hear 323 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: charges comments on Kyler Murray I did not did is 324 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: charge of Kyler guy. I did not hear he's curious 325 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,719 Speaker 1: he joined Nardo today. I know, but I didn't hear 326 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: what he said. Interesting. I'm very I will try to 327 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: find out. I'm very curious to hear what church at 328 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: church who I think is still a cousin's guy. Maybe 329 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: he's bitter, but maybe not. Maybe maybe he praised himself. 330 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 1: This is the perfect, perfect opportunity for him. I have 331 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: absolutely no a working idea done as a society will 332 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: be part of the broadcast today. We've got a lot 333 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: of good aide section stuff to get to even before 334 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: Kessler joins at five point thirty tonight, I mentioned the 335 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: US loses the gold medal game right in the WC 336 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: WBC Classic, and sure enough proof that athletes of all 337 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: ages can respond the same in the same childish way. 338 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: We're being given our medals around our necks, and there 339 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: were a couple of players who no sooner was the 340 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: metal around their neck, they took it off and started 341 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: chewing on it. Well, that part of exaggerating, but it's 342 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: just I don't I just I don't know what that's 343 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: I guess again that shows, Oh, we're so competitive right, 344 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: really wanted to win it. Yep, no kidding. Is anybody 345 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: gonna doubt that even if you just accept the medal 346 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,719 Speaker 1: and wear it and at least for five feet when 347 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: you walk back to the dugout, are we really going 348 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 1: to be impressed with? Oh, he really's taking it hard. 349 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: They all took it hard. You could tell they can't 350 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: feel it. I'm sure they did, which is part of 351 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: the way you figure out that the event was a success. 352 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: To that extent. Right now, we still got to work 353 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: on Major League Baseball figuring out, you know, who will 354 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: participate in who won't. But we'll get into all of 355 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: that with Kernin at four point thirty. There's a new 356 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 1: book out on Larry Joe Bird, and it's less about 357 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: his pro career and much more about his college career 358 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: at Indiana State. The timing is perfect, obviously, with the 359 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: big dance about to begin. I guess the play in 360 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: games did begin yesterday. And writer said book he's outstanding. 361 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: A journalist who's written a definitive book on Pete Rose 362 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: now has one out called Heartland, A Forgotten Place and 363 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: Impossible Dream and the Miracle of Larry Bird. We'll catch 364 00:20:53,800 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: up with Keith O'Brien when we return. There are certain 365 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: names in the business that if they write about something, 366 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: you're almost immediately also interested in said product. Our guy, 367 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: Jack McCallum is one of them. Jack's been on with 368 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: us for years. I used to cover stuff back in 369 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: the ing Stine Wretch days where I'd end up hanging 370 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: around the all time Hall of Famer Jack McCallum, and 371 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: he recently had a review of a book called Heartland, 372 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,439 Speaker 1: A Forgotten Place and Impossible Dream in the Miracle of 373 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: Larry Bird in the Wall Street Journal, and that certainly 374 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: got my attention. Although anything related to Larry Joe Bird 375 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,479 Speaker 1: I'm always going to be interested in, and we're pleased 376 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: to be joined by the author of said book, Keith 377 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: O'Brien kind enough to join us via the Connectico Water 378 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 1: Systems hotline. Kaith, thank you very much for the time. 379 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: I assume it never hurts to get a nice favorable 380 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 1: review from Jack McCallum. 381 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 3: Correct, Well, that's right. I mean, as you said, Jack 382 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 3: McCallum is a legend in basketball writing circles, and so yeah, 383 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 3: it's certainly meant a lot to get that review in 384 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal from him. 385 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit of Obviously, as you well know, 386 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: there have been a lot of Larry Bird books written. 387 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: It looks to me from afar and I'm about I 388 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: think three chapters in just got it. The other day. 389 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: It looks to me like you said, all right, let's 390 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: center on one part of his life, or a couple 391 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: parts of his life before obviously he takes off with 392 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: Magic Johnson to allegedly save the National Basketball Association. Is 393 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: that why you centered on that period, that there was 394 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: maybe some room for some scholarly reporting. 395 00:22:59,119 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 2: That's right. 396 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 3: You know, Heartland is an origin story. You know, this 397 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 3: narrative unfolds between nineteen seventy three and nineteen seventy nine. 398 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 3: It unfolds almost exclusively in rural Indiana. 399 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 2: And you know, the reason. 400 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,959 Speaker 3: Why I focused it that way was was pretty simple. 401 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 3: You know, I feel like all these years we've been 402 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 3: telling this story one way. 403 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 2: You know, we always do the Bird Magic thing. 404 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 3: We always love these two guys in together, and you know, 405 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 3: I get it, I understand why we do that. Of course, 406 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 3: Bird and Magic will play each other in that epic 407 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 3: championship game in March nineteen seventy nine, the most watched 408 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 3: college Basketball Game of all Time, and then they are 409 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 3: going to go on to become icons, you know, redefined 410 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 3: save the NBA. 411 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 2: So I get it. 412 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 3: But in the seventies, Bird and Magic barely know each other. 413 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 2: They have met. 414 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 3: One time before that championship game in seventy nine. 415 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 2: In that one time. 416 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 3: They hardly spoke. So you know, they're not friends, they're 417 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 3: not rivals, they're not anything. And because of that, you know, 418 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 3: what I really wanted to do here was tell this 419 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 3: story in a slightly different way, you know, change the 420 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 3: perspective and focus in, you know, on this origin story. 421 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 3: And when you do that, you do get this entirely 422 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 3: different story, and more importantly, maybe Dan, you get an 423 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 3: entirely different cast of characters. 424 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 2: And these are the characters. 425 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 3: Who shape form and at times save Larry Bird. 426 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: In the in the Wall Street Journal review I referenced earlier, 427 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: McCallum writes that you go deep on mister Bird's sometimes 428 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: gothic boyhood. He was the great White hope, while his 429 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 1: life experience more closely paralleled that of many African American players. 430 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 3: Do you agree, Well, you know, certainly there are some 431 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 3: parallels there. 432 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: You know, I think the the. 433 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 3: Analogy that Jack is making is that you know, many 434 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 3: black players, especially in the seventies, you know, are growing 435 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 3: up in the inner city in Meshton poverty, with limited 436 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 3: options and basketball is a way out. That was certainly 437 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 3: the case for Larry Bird. You know, he is living 438 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 3: on the edge of poverty in the second porest. 439 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 2: County in Indiana. 440 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 3: You know, French Lick in West Baden Springs where Larry grows. 441 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 2: Up are in Orange County. 442 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,719 Speaker 3: It's one of the poorest counties in America in the seventies, 443 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 3: and and Larry feels that growing up. You know, his 444 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 3: father certainly feels it too. You know, unemployment in Orange 445 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 3: County hovered around twenty percent in the seventies. Larry's father 446 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 3: was in and out of work. But you know it 447 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 3: was often his own worst enemy, you know. Joey Bird, 448 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 3: you know, struggled with drinking, struggle with alcoholism. All of these, 449 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 3: you know, adversities are in Larry's background. And for these reasons, 450 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 3: you know, he isn't dreaming about playing college basketball. He 451 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 3: isn't dreaming about going to the NBA. Those are impossible dreams, 452 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 3: even for someone like Larry Bird in Orange County, Indiana. 453 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 3: All he wants to do Larry is maybe one day 454 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 3: play varsity basketball at Springs Valley High School in French Lick, 455 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 3: maybe one day be as good as his older brother Mark, 456 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 3: who was considered to be one of the best shooters 457 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 3: the locals have ever seen. So that was as far 458 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 3: as Larry Bird was willing to dream in the nineteen seventy. 459 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: One of the subplots that you explore early is especially 460 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,919 Speaker 1: fascinating to me because you lay out Larry of course, 461 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: was agreed to attend and did begin his freshman year 462 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: at Indiana University. He got there, I believe in the 463 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: falls seventy four. I got there in the fall of 464 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 1: seventy three. And the great irony for me is if 465 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 1: Larry Bird had stayed to be a part of what 466 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: were two of the best basket college basketball teams of 467 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: all time back to back, one that got upset and 468 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: the next year the last team that remains undefeated on 469 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: the men's side to win the title. I was covering 470 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: that team, and I do think about my God having 471 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: a chance to cover Larry Bird. I stayed he left. 472 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: Give us a sense of what you learned about why 473 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: he left, what led to a fairly you know again, 474 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: he clearly made out fine on the rebound, but nevertheless, 475 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: he's gonna go to play for Bob Knight. He seems 476 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: ready to play for Bob Knight. Dave Bliss, the assistant 477 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: coach who I knew well, that you quote extensively, was 478 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: the guy was sort of the front man on that. 479 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 1: What was the backstory or at least part of the 480 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: backstory you can explore here that I know is a 481 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,479 Speaker 1: big part of the early chapters of this book about 482 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: why Larry Bird just could not handle Indiana University. 483 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 3: I think you can boil it down to two things. 484 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 3: You know, Bobby Knight, the Great Bobby Knight, did not 485 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 3: know what he had in Larry Bird, and maybe more problematic. 486 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 2: He didn't know Larry Bird at all. 487 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 3: You mentioned Dave Bliss, David's assistant coach in Indiana in 488 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 3: the seventies. Dave Bliss's then with Bobby Knight since his 489 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 3: days at Army in the nineteen sixties. It's Bliss who's 490 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 3: recruiting Bird, it's Bliss who knows him, and it's Bliss 491 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,959 Speaker 3: who's advocating for Bird. And by the way, you know, 492 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 3: Bert didn't eat advocates. You know, in nineteen seventy four, 493 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 3: Larry Bird is not considered a top fifteen player in 494 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 3: the state of Indiana. I mean, I want to say 495 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 3: that again because it's no shocking. I mean, according with 496 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 3: the experts, there are fifteen players better than Larry Bird. 497 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 3: So you know, Knight signs him, but he doesn't really. 498 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 2: Know what he has. 499 00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 3: And then Bird gets the campus and he feels poor there'll, 500 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 3: he feels alone there, he feels unwanted there in that 501 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 3: locker room filled with all that talent that's going to 502 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 3: leave that Indiana team to a sixty three and one 503 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 3: record over the next two seasons. And for all of 504 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 3: those reasons, you know, Bird wants to leave. He wants 505 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 3: to go home. And again, Bird wasn't dreaming of playing 506 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 3: college basketball, so he doesn't feel like he's walking away 507 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 3: from something. 508 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 2: He just knows he's unhappy and he's gone. 509 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 3: And you know, I pinpointed the exact day that Bird leaves. 510 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 3: It's September thirteenth, nineteen seventy four, the third friday of school. 511 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 2: And on that day, Bird. 512 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 3: Walks into Dave Bliss's office says he's leaving, and there's 513 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 3: no way for Bobby Knight to stop him because on 514 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 3: that night. Bobby Knight's not on campus. He's about one 515 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 3: hundred miles north in Fort Wayne, Indiana, where he's giving 516 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 3: a talk that night, and people are paying twenty five 517 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 3: dollars at the door to hear the dear the Great 518 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 3: Bobby Knight talk. 519 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: We are chatting with Keith O'Brien. His new book is 520 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: called Heartland, A Forgotten Place, an Impossible Dream, and the 521 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: Miracle of Larry Bird, out in hardcover pretty much everywhere. 522 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: Ebook version as well, certainly available. You will write extensively 523 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: about a guy I covered as well, Jim Wistman, because 524 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: one of the theories that has been advanced forever is 525 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: that among the miscalculations was the decision to room Larry 526 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: Bird with Jim Wisman, a guy who, what's the best 527 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: way to put it, I mean he came to school 528 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: with a like steamer trunks worth of clothes. I mean 529 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: he had everything, and Larry had what maybe like two 530 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: pairs of jeans and a couple of shirts. That was 531 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: about it. And who, I guess we'll never know if 532 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: they'd done a better job pairing Bird with somebody else. 533 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: It may be oversimplified, but that is one of the 534 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: stories you write about that I had heard about previously too, 535 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: that there's summer regret, that that just was not the 536 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: way to ease Larry Bird onto the Indiana University campus. 537 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we need to be fair to Jim Wisman. 538 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 3: You know, he is you know, his father was a 539 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 3: postal carrier, not like he was raised. 540 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 2: At the Silver Spooner nickname. 541 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 3: Yes, but you know, compared to Larry Bird, yeah, I 542 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 3: mean he he he had money, he had he had 543 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 3: things that Larry didn't have. 544 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 2: Jim Whisman was also a good. 545 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:34,239 Speaker 3: Looking guy, you know, popular, articulate, you know, just the 546 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 3: opposite of Larry in so many ways. 547 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 2: And you know, again, in fairness. 548 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 3: To Bobby Knight and Dave Bliss for a moment, there 549 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 3: are only four freshmen on that team. They paired the 550 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 3: first two that signed together, and they paired the next 551 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 3: two who signed together, Whisman and Bird. You know, that's 552 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 3: that's the plan. But it's sort of to what I 553 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 3: was saying a moment ago. They don't know Larry. 554 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 2: They don't understand Larry, and you. 555 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 3: Know, it's a it's a it's a a correction that 556 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,719 Speaker 3: Indiana State, by the way, is going to make. So 557 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 3: you know, after Bird leaves and goes back to French Lick. 558 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 3: I don't think people have an understanding of just how 559 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 3: dark it gets that winter. You know, Larry Bird is 560 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 3: fully gone within ten months. 561 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 2: He is a home in French Lick. 562 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 3: He has briefly attended vocational school and played basketball there. 563 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 3: Then he's dropped out from there, gotten a job with 564 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 3: the city, where among his other duties, he's hauling trash. 565 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 3: And while all of this is happening, his father fully 566 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,400 Speaker 3: unravels a tragedy on the doorstep of the bird house. 567 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 3: And in this moment, Bird is telling his mother and 568 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 3: others that he is not going back to college. 569 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 2: He is finished with that. 570 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 3: And you know, I've learned one thing about Larry Bird. 571 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 3: When he says something, he means it, and nobody can 572 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 3: break through to him. But one man does, and it's 573 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 3: a down on his luck. Assistant coach at Indiana State 574 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 3: a man named Bill Hodges. Bill Hodges is from rural Indiana. 575 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 3: He's a lot like Larry. He was raised in rural 576 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 3: Union Township. He knows how to bail hay. He's stubborn 577 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 3: like Larry. And Bill Hodges really pursues Larry and connects 578 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 3: with him, and one year later, in the summer of 579 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 3: seventy five, when Larry reports to Tara Hate, Indiana, Bill 580 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 3: Hodges does things for Larry Bird that Bobby Knight never did. 581 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 2: Number One, you. 582 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 3: Know, Bill recruits to play at Indiana State a teammate 583 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 3: of Larry's from Springs Valley High School, and he rooms 584 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 3: these two guys together, you know, Danny King and Larry Bird. 585 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 3: So Larry is with a guy he knows from French Lick. 586 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 3: That's number one, you know. Number two, you know, Bill 587 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 3: Hodges helps get Larry a job, you know, with the 588 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 3: richest guy in Tara Hate, you know, a job that 589 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 3: helps put money in Larry's pocket. 590 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 2: And really it is you. 591 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 3: Know, Bill Hodges who build a safe place for Larry 592 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 3: and Larry Bird did need a safe place in nineteen 593 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 3: seventy five. 594 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,480 Speaker 1: Tell me about or for the audience, you know about 595 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:15,439 Speaker 1: the about what Hancock Construction is, how that fits into 596 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: this story. 597 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 3: Hancock Construction is a team that Larry Bird is playing 598 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 3: for when Bill Hodges goes looking for him in the 599 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,160 Speaker 3: spring of nineteen seventy five. Good and you know, Hancock 600 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 3: Construction is effectively glorified pick up men's basketball I mean 601 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 3: I once played on and over thirty men's basketball team 602 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 3: that was not all that different from Hancock Construction. There's 603 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 3: a team, you know, filled with guys who were in 604 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 3: their late twenties, early thirties, who were once really good 605 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 3: at basketball, played at high school or college, but now 606 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 3: had day jobs and mortgages, wives and kids. And they're 607 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 3: playing in what was known as the Industrial League. This 608 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 3: is not you know, elite basketball. This is rural Indiana 609 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 3: basketball played in rural Indiana gymnasiums on weeknights. And you know, 610 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 3: that's exactly how far Larry Bird has fallen. You know, 611 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 3: by the spring of nineteen seventy five, he's he's playing 612 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 3: on Hancock Construction, a team you know where on any 613 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 3: given night, maybe the top seven players show up, or 614 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 3: maybe they can't make it because they've got work or 615 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 3: they've got a family obligation. 616 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: Did Larry Bird not know how good he was? 617 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 3: No, he did know how good he was. I mean, 618 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 3: that is one thing that you know is true. He's 619 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 3: not a trash talker in those days like people will 620 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 3: find on TikTok you know and his NBA. Yes, but 621 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 3: he is fully confident in his own abilities. He had 622 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 3: that confidence from his days at Springs Valley High School. 623 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 3: You know, Larry was just stubborn. He did not want 624 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 3: to do something that he did not want to do, 625 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 3: and he did not want to stay at Indiana, so 626 00:35:59,320 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 3: he was gone. 627 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 2: And then he. 628 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 3: Didn't want to go back to college, so that was 629 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 3: his choice. 630 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 2: And so you know, he knew he was good. 631 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 3: And you know, even in that industrial league, you know, 632 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 3: playing for Hancock Construction, I mean on some nights, Larry 633 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 3: Bird is putting up enormous numbers, you know, you know 634 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 3: talking about Knights where he's got twenty five rebounds, thirty points, 635 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,919 Speaker 3: you know, forty points a night. You know, he is, 636 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 3: he is playing, and he knows he's great, but he 637 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 3: is just sort of lost and slipping through the cracks 638 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 3: the And. 639 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 1: Is it fair to say, how do you look at 640 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 1: it in terms of Indiana State knowing what to do 641 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: to make him comfortable? Does that fall in the classification 642 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,280 Speaker 1: of they just were more aware, they were more alert 643 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: to it, or they kind of had to be because 644 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: they were in a bigger they were in a different circumstance, 645 00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: so they needed what they hoped. Obviously, I don't know 646 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 1: if they could have possibly anticipated what he could end 647 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,839 Speaker 1: up being at the college level, but that they were 648 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: better at it just because they needed to more than 649 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: perhaps Indiana did. 650 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 3: Like the Bill Hodges, you know, he's a straight talking 651 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,759 Speaker 3: guy still alive today. You know, a good salesman who 652 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 3: was known that if he could get into the living room, 653 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 3: he could close the deal with a player with a family, 654 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 3: he could sign. 655 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 2: Him, but he wasn't. 656 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 3: Also like the slick you know recruiter who showed up 657 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 3: given the same speech to the same kid on a 658 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:41,160 Speaker 3: different night. Right, you know, Bill Hodges knew that Larry 659 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 3: was different. 660 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 2: He knew that Larry was not your typical recruit. 661 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 3: You know, Bill craft's a plan for Larry that works 662 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 3: for Larry. 663 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 2: And again you know Bill gets. 664 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,320 Speaker 3: Him because you know, Bill grows up poor in rural Indiana. 665 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 3: You know Bill grows up in the house with no 666 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 3: running water, no indoor plumbing. You know, Bill has a 667 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,720 Speaker 3: father who's not fully present in his life and doesn't 668 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 3: fully understand what he's doing. 669 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,319 Speaker 2: You know, these two guys connect, and it really is. 670 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,879 Speaker 3: That connection that you know coaxes Larry to come back 671 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 3: to school and coaxes Larry to stay at school. You know, 672 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,640 Speaker 3: in that year, that first year at Indiana State, Larry's 673 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 3: got to do one last hard thing. He's got to 674 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 3: wait the whole year before he can suit up for 675 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 3: the Sycamores. You know, he's got to pay a price 676 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 3: for having transferred. He's got to miss an entire year 677 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 3: of his college career. And that's a really hard year 678 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,760 Speaker 3: for Larry. And at one point, you know, Bill Hodges 679 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:44,320 Speaker 3: and the head coach. 680 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:46,240 Speaker 2: At Indiana State, a man named Bob King. 681 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 3: They get a key for Larry to the local boys 682 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 3: club so that Larry could shoot any time he wanted, 683 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 3: day or night. You know, Bill Hodges recounted for me, 684 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 3: you know, returning from late night recruiting trips. 685 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 2: In rural Illinois, rural Indiana. 686 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,800 Speaker 3: And driving downtown and seeing you know, the lights in 687 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 3: the boys club on in the middle of the night. 688 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 3: Bill Hodges would walk in. It's midnight, it's one in 689 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,920 Speaker 3: the morning, and there's Larry Bird all alone, shooting and shooting. 690 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: Did ultimately did Hodges believe they could beat Michigan State 691 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: in the title game. 692 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,480 Speaker 3: Absolutely every man in that locker room believed they could 693 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 3: beat Michigan State in that title game. And you know, 694 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,320 Speaker 3: I watched every minute of that nineteen seventy eight seventy 695 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 3: nine season, that miracle season where Indiana State goes thirty 696 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 3: three and oh rumbling into that final. 697 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 2: Game and captures the hearts of America. 698 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 3: You know, a great many millions of people are tuning 699 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 3: in that night, not for bird magic, but for the 700 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 3: Cinderella story that was Indiana State. And you know, they 701 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 3: had just beaten Arkansas, which had Sydney Montcreef and a 702 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,319 Speaker 3: couple other future NBA players. They had just beaten to 703 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 3: Paul that has market wire and a very talented squad. 704 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 3: They fully believe they could beat Michigan State. And you know, 705 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 3: it's just one of those nights where the calls don't 706 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 3: go their way, the shots don't go their way, and 707 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,319 Speaker 3: there are a couple turning points late where you know, 708 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 3: if the ball bounces differently or the whistle blows differently, 709 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:28,720 Speaker 3: maybe that outcome is different. 710 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: Referring back to the review I mentioned at the start 711 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 1: from a Jack on Your book, he writes, mister Bird 712 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,359 Speaker 1: carried the weight of a calamity you never get over. 713 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: In the calamity he's talking about what you hinted at 714 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: a referenced is the suicide of his father. I guess 715 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to calculate how that weight weighs on someone, 716 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: what it does, how it changes them. What kinds of 717 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:58,320 Speaker 1: things did you learn in that regard. 718 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 3: Well, you know, today we would have a word for this, 719 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 3: you know, we would call this a trauma. And you know, 720 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 3: when this happens, Larry Bird is eighteen years old, he 721 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 3: has just turned eighteen, and this is in the middle 722 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 3: of that dark winter where he has left Bloomington, he 723 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,880 Speaker 3: has checked out and he is playing for Hancock Construction. 724 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 3: And you know, in twenty twenty six, an eighteen year 725 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 3: old young man, a boy, you know, would have a 726 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 3: support network around him, you know, caregivers, therapists, all of 727 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 3: that that doesn't exist in rural Indiana in the nineteen seventies. 728 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,239 Speaker 3: Larry really does have to shoulder this in a great 729 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 3: many ways alone. And I'll tell you this to give 730 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 3: you a sense of how he shouldered that. In every 731 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,279 Speaker 3: interview I did with the people who were closest to 732 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,799 Speaker 3: Larry in the nineteen seventies, and I'm talking about his 733 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 3: best childhood friends, his head coaches, Bill Hodges, his teammates 734 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 3: at Indiana State. I would always ask him, did did 735 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,839 Speaker 3: did Larry ever talk to you about his father? Did 736 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 3: he ever talk about the suicide? And the answer was 737 00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:10,399 Speaker 3: the same every time. No, he never did. 738 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 1: Remarkable, you know, to the surprise of no one who 739 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,720 Speaker 1: over the years, you know, covered Larry Bird, uh covered 740 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: his games with certainly in the pro level he did. 741 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 1: He did not. I don't think he sat down with 742 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 1: you for an interview for this book. So did that 743 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 1: in any way discourage you? Or do you think in 744 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 1: the end it actually enhances your reporting because you've you've 745 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:40,479 Speaker 1: got you can get there. You just have to get 746 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,280 Speaker 1: there through other people. Frankly, might even be more honest 747 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,520 Speaker 1: than than Larry Joe Bird might have been if if 748 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 1: he had chatted with you. How does that How did 749 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: that change this whole process for you? 750 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 3: Well, it didn't change anything, you know, obviously as a historian. 751 00:42:57,719 --> 00:42:59,759 Speaker 3: As a journalist, I want to talk to everybody. I 752 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 3: want talk to everybody. I certainly want to talk to 753 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,279 Speaker 3: the central you know, protagonist and a narrative. And I 754 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,959 Speaker 3: made great efforts to try to talk to Larry Bird. 755 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,959 Speaker 3: But you know, I have learned over the years through 756 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 3: this book, through my past books, you know, through my 757 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 3: book on Pete Rose, Charlie Hussel that you know, while 758 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 3: it is great to talk to that central character, you 759 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 3: can often get a more accurate portrait by talking to 760 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 3: fifteen forty seventy five people around that person. 761 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 2: You know, I believe I did that here. 762 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,400 Speaker 3: And you know, this is a story that's bigger than 763 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,240 Speaker 3: Larry Bird. You know, this is a story of a team, 764 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,479 Speaker 3: a time, a place, a moment, and it's a moment 765 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,279 Speaker 3: it's so big that it really does pick them all up, 766 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,359 Speaker 3: not just Bird and Magic, but the people in that 767 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,279 Speaker 3: locker room in Terre Haute, Indiana in the nineteen seventies. 768 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,120 Speaker 3: You know, this book came out about two weeks ago, 769 00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 3: and on the first night, on the launch night, I 770 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 3: was back in Tara Hoe and I was doing an 771 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,719 Speaker 3: event downtown at the Convention Center, about one hundred meters 772 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 3: from the arena where Larry Bird became famous. And for 773 00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:13,440 Speaker 3: that event, you know, nine players of that nineteen seventy 774 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 3: nine Indiana State Miracle team and head coach Bill Hodges, 775 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,360 Speaker 3: now in his early eighties, you join me on stage, 776 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:25,200 Speaker 3: you know, in conversation about that season, that time in 777 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 3: their lives, and the enormous crowd came out of locals 778 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:34,080 Speaker 3: and Indiana State fans. It was emotional for the guys 779 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,600 Speaker 3: on the stage. It was emotional for the people out 780 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 3: there in the audience. You know, this moment was so 781 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 3: big in some ways, it changed an entire town. 782 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: Did you have you I assume you sent the book 783 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,319 Speaker 1: to Larry. 784 00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 2: I know Larry has the book and I have not. 785 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:52,320 Speaker 2: I have not heard. 786 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,040 Speaker 1: Him, and I assume he wasn't one of the nine 787 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:56,240 Speaker 1: for the opening. 788 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,080 Speaker 3: Gosh, that would have been great, but no, Well, I. 789 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 1: Hope, you know, I hope he uh at some point 790 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,680 Speaker 1: he reads it, although you know, like you say, being 791 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,319 Speaker 1: the type he is, he may never you know, that's 792 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:10,920 Speaker 1: that's sort of the nature of him. I think to 793 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,799 Speaker 1: a large degree. Uh continued the success. I'm sure this 794 00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,520 Speaker 1: book's going to do great. The Pete Rose book was 795 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,160 Speaker 1: outstanding in a terrific success. Like I said on about 796 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,279 Speaker 1: three four chapters in and I appreciate you giving us 797 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,040 Speaker 1: extended time today. And I hope I'm sure it'll go well. 798 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 1: I have no doubt about that. But good luck with you. Absolutely. 799 00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:37,040 Speaker 1: Thanks again. That is Keith O'Brien. A new Larry Bird book. 800 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:38,799 Speaker 1: You go, there's a million Larry Bird books, but I 801 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,480 Speaker 1: think He's hit a sweet spot here, which is centering 802 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,640 Speaker 1: on the Indian his upbringing and the Indiana State story. 803 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,880 Speaker 1: That's a story that's been explored, but maybe not to 804 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 1: this depth and this detail. And he's one of the 805 00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,319 Speaker 1: best when it comes to these kinds of books. So 806 00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:01,400 Speaker 1: it's in hardcover right now. Heartland. Keith O'Brien is the author. 807 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: Don't forget. We've got Kevin Kernan in about a half hour, 808 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 1: and we've got Pat Kessler in ninety minutes.