Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American Cloni seven?
Speaker 2: Under high profile and violent crimes lead the news. So well, why, well,
Speaker 2: ere's neglect underfunding police law enforcement, generally ignoring the problem
Speaker 2: while focusing more on programs and promises. And if you
Speaker 2: promise not to go and kill someone, we will let
Speaker 2: you out of jail. Here's you had a gun, you're
Speaker 2: doing violent, Just go ahead, but you're gonna come back.
Speaker 2: You're gonna get a job, right, report to your probation officer.
Speaker 2: Sure you are.
Speaker 1: So.
Speaker 2: As such, the mayor is feeling the heat and with
Speaker 2: the election coming up, of course, now we're on the
Speaker 2: death watch for the career of police Chief Terry Thiji.
Speaker 2: The question though, is how much is this on her?
Speaker 2: As she has now been summoned back from Denver to conference.
Speaker 2: Dan Hill is a former FOP long time if we've
Speaker 2: p president, now in private practice with Front Light Advisors.
Speaker 2: He's a law enforcement consultant. Dan, welcome, How are.
Speaker 3: You, Ahlony? I'm doing great?
Speaker 2: Always, yeah, thank you. So she's in Denver for a
Speaker 2: conference and a city managers share along to return immediately
Speaker 2: to addressed departmental matters. When I hear that, okay, so
Speaker 2: what has happened in the last forty eight to seventy
Speaker 2: two hours. That would warrant her being plucked from a
Speaker 2: conference in Denver to fly back to Cincinnati because there's
Speaker 2: some huge departmental matter what's going on. Of course someone's
Speaker 2: going to go, well, she's probably getting fired. What you know.
Speaker 2: First of all, let's start with that. Why would you
Speaker 2: do that now instead of like right after the city
Speaker 2: birds shooting or any of this other stuff. You're going
Speaker 2: to sacrifice her, which we'll get into a second. Why
Speaker 2: are in the middle, Okay, we need to do this right,
Speaker 2: and we're going to pull you out of a conference
Speaker 2: and bring you back and fire you. Well, why is
Speaker 2: that happening right now?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean the easy answer is to the election.
Speaker 3: You know, this is far too political in some ways,
Speaker 3: and that's the problem that the office of police chief
Speaker 3: has become political. So we'd have to almost go way
Speaker 3: back in the rewind to issue five, where they changed
Speaker 3: the way that the police chief answers the city hall,
Speaker 3: the way he's selected for he or she is selected.
Speaker 2: Talking about that, explain Issue five when that was in
Speaker 2: the in the history of that Because I know that
Speaker 2: I'm throwing around for a while I mean as best
Speaker 2: we can, but how long ago that was and what
Speaker 2: that means and how that led us to now?
Speaker 3: Boy I was I was Tom Shreker was the last
Speaker 3: chief that was selected in the old way. So we're
Speaker 3: talking about sometime in the nineties. I guess kind of
Speaker 3: kind of hard for me to pick out dates now
Speaker 3: at my age, But it used to be, well, while
Speaker 3: the manager still selected the police chief, the police chief
Speaker 3: came from within the agency, and uh, then you had
Speaker 3: to have cause, and that's a that's a big legal
Speaker 3: term to fire somebody. So you know, if if if
Speaker 3: if the police chiefs gotten some sort of criminal behavior
Speaker 3: or you know, sexual harassment or something of that nature,
Speaker 3: that would be caused, and then the police chief could
Speaker 3: be fired. But you can't just go. You know, politics
Speaker 3: is getting a little rough for me, Like if I
Speaker 3: may ask have and go, you know, I think I'll
Speaker 3: sacrifice the chief so that that that that's what's changed,
Speaker 3: is that now the the office of lee chief is
Speaker 3: very very political. And and this comes to my belief
Speaker 3: if she want me to go on with this about
Speaker 3: where where we are and how we got there, is
Speaker 3: I think that that Terry Figi is not the problem.
Speaker 3: She's a symptom of the problem. I think she was
Speaker 3: given the job not for DEI reasons per se, because
Speaker 3: I think Terry's smart lady. I think she was given
Speaker 3: for good o boy reasons. I think she agreed to
Speaker 3: sing or dance to the tune of whatever the city
Speaker 3: manager went under the dance to. And and so now
Speaker 3: we're talking about what's going on at city hall, and
Speaker 3: and got her jobs on Frivier the other day. And
Speaker 3: I could tell you care you care about how much,
Speaker 3: uh you know, crime is hurting the city of Cincinnati
Speaker 3: and its reputation and everything. And you would have to
Speaker 3: ask yourself, since you care, why does a city that
Speaker 3: cares about crime hirely like Irish Rollie. It just doesn't
Speaker 3: make any sense. Right. So, if I'm a perspective police chief,
Speaker 3: which I'm not, and you're asking me, hey, you want
Speaker 3: to come here to my city of Cincinnati and be
Speaker 3: the police chief, I would sit there and take a
Speaker 3: look at the look at everything that's there to be
Speaker 3: dealt with, and I would I would see, I would
Speaker 3: see Irish Rolly and I'd go, well, you got to
Speaker 3: get rid of her first, And oh no, no, she's
Speaker 3: an important part of playing stuff. And that's why I go, eh,
Speaker 3: I'm out, I'm out.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I heard through the same cops that
Speaker 2: you talk to too that when they're bringing the troopers in,
Speaker 2: I guess, and this is in the last couple of weeks,
Speaker 2: a few weeks, that she was the one telling them
Speaker 2: what they can and can't do when they enact to
Speaker 2: stop or question a subject in the course of doing
Speaker 2: their duty as a police sworn law enforcement officer under
Speaker 2: Ohio law. I'm like, why am I having a consultant
Speaker 2: one hundred one thousand dollars year qute unquote consultant tell
Speaker 2: me how I'm supposed to handle and address sub suspects
Speaker 2: or subjects and people I may contact with in the
Speaker 2: course of my job. That's not in the scope of
Speaker 2: her duties. I mean, if you want to advise the
Speaker 2: mayor's officer, the city manager share along on you know,
Speaker 2: community matters, and like, you know, everyone deserves a seat
Speaker 2: at the table. It's it's you know, it's a public enterprise. Sure,
Speaker 2: but it seems like iris Reli has way too much
Speaker 2: power for someone in her position or someone in her
Speaker 2: from as someone involved in what she is that that's
Speaker 2: the problem if I'm looking at that as a job going.
Speaker 2: If I'm here and that I'm like, hell no, i
Speaker 2: ain't come to Cincinnati because I'm not gonna have.
Speaker 3: Any power, of course not. And that's the thing is
Speaker 3: what is what is her position is that it's something
Speaker 3: related to the Claire Verve. And let me tell you
Speaker 3: that I had to deal with the clavorative, which is
Speaker 3: pages and pages of pages are saying that we're going
Speaker 3: to communicate better and we're going to be transparent. Okay,
Speaker 3: I could cover I could cover the whole collaborative in
Speaker 3: those two words. We're going to be more transparent and
Speaker 3: and we're going to collaborate more with the community and
Speaker 3: communicate and communicate better with me. That's it, that's all,
Speaker 3: That's all it is. And then they're paying this lady
Speaker 3: one hundred thousand dollars and that's not what she does.
Speaker 3: She doesn't communicate better. On my eyes, she's not helping
Speaker 3: us be transparent. She goes out and she gets in
Speaker 3: the way of police officers doing their work. And it
Speaker 3: seems to me this is what their belief is, is
Speaker 3: that that she somehow has the a riot button. And
Speaker 3: if we don't make iris happy she can punch a
Speaker 3: riot button. I don't believe that she has that power.
Speaker 3: I think they think she has that power, and that's
Speaker 3: why they go around at a peether her and let
Speaker 3: her hire her son and all that stuff. But I'll
Speaker 3: also bring up the c C eight to Sistan complain authority.
Speaker 3: They do nothing but handicap the cops with ridiculous complaints,
Speaker 3: and the and the way that they deal with them,
Speaker 3: and the amount of money they throw. I'm sure they
Speaker 3: throw millions at that, all the investigators and everything they have.
Speaker 3: And I use the word and saying too much, but
Speaker 3: imagine the insanity of you're fighting the Germans, right it's
Speaker 3: World War two. You're fighting the Germans. But we have
Speaker 3: an office out of our government that helps the Germans.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's we're trying to fight crime. And then
Speaker 3: yet we have we have folks that go out there
Speaker 3: and try to handicap the police. It's like trying to
Speaker 3: handicap the navy or the army or anything else during
Speaker 3: the time of war. It just doesn't make any sense
Speaker 3: because we we do. We have a crisis out there,
Speaker 3: and the crisis is phony. Not to not to get
Speaker 3: too big picture, but it's it's it's it's spiritual, it's cultural,
Speaker 3: it's all sorts of things that lead to all this
Speaker 3: crime and all this trouble that we're having with the youth.
Speaker 3: And look, the problems at the state level, we don't
Speaker 3: have enough prisons. The problems huge at the county level
Speaker 3: because we have a bunch of judges that are just
Speaker 3: absolutely woke in saying that wants to get proper bails
Speaker 3: or bonds and stuff. Yeah, that's if I have to
Speaker 3: throw a dart at the biggest problem.
Speaker 2: And Dan hits there unaccountable. Is the problem is you know,
Speaker 2: we know that the Tim Holloway and the Police Chiefs
Speaker 2: Association of Hamlin County, all the little villages and hamlets,
Speaker 2: and they're trying to have these summits where they're getting
Speaker 2: all the stakeholders involved, from citizens, from cops to lawyers.
Speaker 2: And here's a order that judges can't show up to
Speaker 2: this because it's against some sort of judicial ethic. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, when it comes time to vote,
Speaker 2: they're in the community telling people how to vote and
Speaker 2: meeting with constituents about how judges and how their office works.
Speaker 2: So it seems like a huge conflict and they're just
Speaker 2: cherry picking what they want and what not to do.
Speaker 2: And you know, again, how many times have we had
Speaker 2: like this guy? The guy the latest example, And I'm
Speaker 2: sadly we'll probably have another one, hopefully not tonight on
Speaker 2: Thursday night football, Dan Hills. Can you imagine? Yeah, here's
Speaker 2: a shot in the Cincinnati skyline. Oh my god, here's
Speaker 2: the genius of water Statute, Fountain Square. Never mind those
Speaker 2: swat officers with assault weapons and helmets and tactical gear.
Speaker 2: Never mind them. But look at the it seems like
Speaker 2: a nice city. I want to visit. Well, the cops
Speaker 2: standing around Fountain Square with guns to keep people from
Speaker 2: shooting each other. At City Bird, there's a guy twenty
Speaker 2: four years old. And I said, the minute it happened,
Speaker 2: I guarantee you that this guy's got a jacket, he's
Speaker 2: got something on him.
Speaker 3: He has a.
Speaker 2: History, and he is prohibited because he has a prior
Speaker 2: felony from having a gun. And I said, you could
Speaker 2: bet the house on that happening. And sure enough, turns
Speaker 2: out the guy the guy they're looking for. It fits
Speaker 2: that description that this guy is not allowed by law
Speaker 2: as the convict of having a convicted record, rather felony
Speaker 2: record that shouldn't have a gun on him. And that's
Speaker 2: the problem, right is I had a lawmaker and yesterday
Speaker 2: I don't know if you heard a lot of council
Speaker 2: person was talking about how we need to get tougher
Speaker 2: gun laws. They said, the problem, that's not the problem.
Speaker 2: The problem is you got guys out there running around
Speaker 2: with guns shooting each other who shouldn't have them. Throw
Speaker 2: them behind bart, put them in prison. If you are
Speaker 2: prohibited for him of a gun in your phone, or
Speaker 2: you cut your ankle monitor off. We don't take it
Speaker 2: seriously enough, and that just encourages more of that behavior.
Speaker 3: Bunny, we have the gun wall. I heard you saying
Speaker 3: that I heard the rant, you know, and he might
Speaker 3: have stole from my many years yiff of be president
Speaker 3: because I was saying it over and over again. We
Speaker 3: have weapons under disability. If we truly enforce the weapons
Speaker 3: under disability are are violence as far as shootings and
Speaker 3: stuff with plummet There's just no doubt about it. Every
Speaker 3: time we come across a dirt ball with a gun
Speaker 3: that has the convictions that shouldn't be allowed to carry
Speaker 3: a gun. If he went away for the max time
Speaker 3: for allowed for weapons under disability. It wouldn't turn around overnight,
Speaker 3: but you could see for without a doubt that that
Speaker 3: effect would start to change because look, everybody in the
Speaker 3: community would start to talk like, man, do you know,
Speaker 3: do you know how he's doing hard time because he
Speaker 3: had a gun, because he had previous colony. Next thing,
Speaker 3: you know, people aren't carrying guns as much and in
Speaker 3: that atmosphere, and if they don't have a gun just
Speaker 3: because just because all of a sudden they get angry.
Speaker 3: If if they're of a mindset that they get angry
Speaker 3: at somebody at the city bird, they're not going to
Speaker 3: crack off around at him. You know, I carry a
Speaker 3: gun because I'm still a policeman of this day, but plenty.
Speaker 3: If I get man at you at the city bird,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to crack off.
Speaker 2: Around in ninety nine plus percent percent of the population
Speaker 2: thinks the way we do, Dan Hills. It's the size
Speaker 2: of sociopaths out there. It's the pre pill around the
Speaker 2: path of the career criminals, our career criminals that are
Speaker 2: that are executing this kind of behavior and the other
Speaker 2: ament of guns is the reason why people are getting
Speaker 2: guns is because people are coming to Cincinnati, they're scared
Speaker 2: to death, and then there's all these signs you can't
Speaker 2: bring your gun into places, so they put it in
Speaker 2: their car. And young people especially know that that's happening.
Speaker 2: And so that's why we're having forty seven percent increase
Speaker 2: in property cremes specific to vehicle breaks in. It's a
Speaker 2: self fulfilling prophecy. We have guns and we bring them
Speaker 2: to protect ourselves. They break in the car, steal the guns,
Speaker 2: and it causes more crime. That causes to carry it
Speaker 2: more often.
Speaker 3: So back to the you know you want me all
Speaker 3: to talk about the Chief dig is the Chief Cg's
Speaker 3: fault that we're having this explosion of the sun. No,
Speaker 3: it's not. Am I a huge fan of her, No,
Speaker 3: I'm not. I don't. I don't think that she's maybe
Speaker 3: the best spokesperson out there and all that stuff. She's
Speaker 3: a smart lady, she's competent lady, nice lady from all
Speaker 3: I can tell. But she's again, she's a symptom of
Speaker 3: the disease. She agreed to come here and play in
Speaker 3: the same sandbox as Irish. Rely if they asked Scott
Speaker 3: Sloan or Dan Hills to be the police chief. I
Speaker 3: think one of my first demands, because I would I
Speaker 3: would have some demands, is, look, you got to get
Speaker 3: rid of her, and you got to tone down the
Speaker 3: CCA by like, you know, eighty five percent or something
Speaker 3: so that my copperce can go out there and do
Speaker 3: their job. If not, what's the purpose of hiring me,
Speaker 3: is your police chief? Because you know I have things
Speaker 3: I want to do and to help make things a
Speaker 3: little bit better. But again, you know, of all the
Speaker 3: things we talked about her, I covered that's going on
Speaker 3: in this world that comes all the way down to
Speaker 3: our little bird here Cincinnati. The one I can point
Speaker 3: to the easiest to say, the county judges. You know,
Speaker 3: they're just terrible when they're not sentencing people, uh for
Speaker 3: for that most important crime weapons under disability that could
Speaker 3: help prevent these shootings. But even if they do start
Speaker 3: sentence them, I think we're running on running into problem
Speaker 3: because they are in enough room in the inn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's party problem at.
Speaker 3: The state level. So it's a multi layered problem. And look,
Speaker 3: this is this is politics that the mayor. The mayor
Speaker 3: is threatening this or doing this, the managers doing this
Speaker 3: because they're starting to feel a little bit of heat
Speaker 3: from from Corey Bowman. But who who would have thought
Speaker 3: that they're republished and mayor in this day and age,
Speaker 3: heat or candidate could could you know, even even make
Speaker 3: them sweat. But that's where we're at now. I think
Speaker 3: there's a good sweat.
Speaker 2: Good good I mean, that's that, you know, I and
Speaker 2: sadly I you know, we need some sort of ground.
Speaker 2: So my fear is this, if Aftab winds up winning
Speaker 2: re election, and if I were to bet, i'd bet
Speaker 2: he probably wins at this point, despite the valiant effort
Speaker 2: by Corey Bowman and a lot of the great selling
Speaker 2: points that he's made. It's just it's so deeply blue.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: People complain about the legislature in Ohio being controlled by Republicans.
Speaker 2: You can't break that stranglehold. And look what they're doing
Speaker 2: while the republic of the Democrats in Hamlin County are
Speaker 2: doing the same damn thing. So if you want more
Speaker 2: of the same, just keep electing the same people as
Speaker 2: the message there. But nonetheless, I just want my fear
Speaker 2: is this, this is after the election. If AFTAB wins
Speaker 2: re election, we just go back to the way things work.
Speaker 3: Well, you could almost bet on it. I mean, if
Speaker 3: they have that line that down at the casino, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean, you're going to be elbowing each other out
Speaker 3: of the way to bet that. Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll just forget about this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, with Terry or without Terry, I'm going to put
Speaker 3: I'm going to put my I'm going to put my
Speaker 3: chips on. Things will go back to the way they will.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I look at it, since that issue five passed
Speaker 2: two you think about the chiefs, right, I mean we
Speaker 2: had who was it Blackwell? Chief Jeffrey Blackwell was fired
Speaker 2: and what's about ten years ago? And then we had
Speaker 2: James Craig, who is here and then off to Detroit
Speaker 2: in less than I think eighteen months or two years ago.
Speaker 2: We we first just okay, gotch and and Craig Isaac
Speaker 2: was not what they were looking for, right, Craig.
Speaker 3: Craig was not a woke lefty. He came in here
Speaker 3: and and the cops loved him because he did back
Speaker 3: the cops, and and and because they he was their
Speaker 3: first one they brought in. And because he was black,
Speaker 3: they weren't going to send him pack. And he left
Speaker 3: himself because he had the opportunity to go back to
Speaker 3: his childhood home at Detroit and and be the chief.
Speaker 3: So he left, But yeah, I would like to I'd
Speaker 3: like to have Chief Craig back right now with holy stuff.
Speaker 2: So we got Blackwell, who was you know, a hostile
Speaker 2: work environment, didn't talk to the caves. It was a clown.
Speaker 2: He got out of here.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And so now we've got this history. We had Eli
Speaker 2: chief Isaac in for a while before he retired, Uh
Speaker 2: what about three years ago? And the beat goes on
Speaker 2: and so to bring in full circle, Dan Hills, this
Speaker 2: is like Zach Taylor firing lou Ana Roumo and that
Speaker 2: guess what the Bengals was a loser.
Speaker 3: Yes they are. That's that's good, nilogy. I I don't
Speaker 3: see anything.
Speaker 2: Is How's how the Colt's doing with lou An Aruma?
Speaker 2: Pretty good?
Speaker 3: Five five and one? I think about that. So is
Speaker 3: it how about that?
Speaker 2: Is it the head coach or is it the assistant?
Speaker 2: Is that the organization? Is it the ownership? That's definitely,
Speaker 2: there's no question about that.
Speaker 3: Gain. Yes, back to our discussion, it's it's city Hall.
Speaker 3: It's their woke idea of doing things. It's they're lying
Speaker 3: in bed with the types of people like Irish Roly.
Speaker 3: So any city that does that is not going to
Speaker 3: get a police chief and allow him to uh, you know,
Speaker 3: run his or her department and and and the way
Speaker 3: they want to. Because that was when they when they
Speaker 3: were bringing Terry on, they were they were telling her
Speaker 3: she had to she had a play in the sandbox
Speaker 3: with Irish Roly, at which time, if I was the
Speaker 3: police chief, I say, now, there's no way that doesn't
Speaker 3: that that doesn't benefit my people, doesn't make my people
Speaker 3: feel any more secure and them going out doing their work.
Speaker 3: If we're hiring somebody like this, yes, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: It's a done deal.
Speaker 3: She's getting fired, right, I don't know. I don't have
Speaker 3: the connections and stuff. I'm not actively involved in it
Speaker 3: like I used to be. That if we're going back
Speaker 3: to that casino again, I would say sure. I would
Speaker 3: say that they've they've made it hard for her to continue.
Speaker 2: They've also handled this horrible. I mean, the fact that
Speaker 2: called her back from Denver to say, yeah, we've got
Speaker 2: a pressing issue. Well, what's the pressing issue? Isn't like,
Speaker 2: you know, I wish we could have done with Aftab
Speaker 2: because as I as I recall, he went on vacation
Speaker 2: after the brawl at the end of July, and because
Speaker 2: he deserved his son and his five year old deserved.
Speaker 2: I mean, wait a minute, hold on, just a seconds,
Speaker 2: what's wrong with that picture? Anyway? I know you got
Speaker 2: to go. He's Dan Horde, former FOP president of the
Speaker 2: Queen City Lodge and now in private practice, the private
Speaker 2: citizen Dane Hill.
Speaker 3: Dan Horde.
Speaker 2: Oh, I've got Dan hard I'm sorry. I apologize. I
Speaker 2: got that. I got all the Dans on to day.
Speaker 2: I don't know what's got Dan Hills, Dan Horde. All right, well, Danny,
Speaker 2: all the best Dan Hills with Frontline Advisors. Thanks again, brother,
Speaker 2: you take care. Yeah, I'm thinking of football. I got
Speaker 2: Dan Hills, I got Dan Hord. I got some surrounded
Speaker 2: by Dan's around here. I don't know what's going on,
Speaker 2: Dan Hord. A little bit later in the show eleven
Speaker 2: oh seven, we'll talk Thursday night football here in Cincinnati.
Speaker 2: I'm the home of the best Bengals coverage. Seven hundred
Speaker 2: WLWT Cincinnati Scott's Loan Show seven hundred w l W
Speaker 2: Dan Hills minutes ago with Frontline Advisors, former FOP president
Speaker 2: and the chief Thiji is waiting her day. It's like
Speaker 2: waiting to go to the executioner in a way, in
Speaker 2: a sad way for Chief Thigi, as he said, you know,
Speaker 2: she's done some good things and some things that were
Speaker 2: like questionable. Her interaction with the beat cops could have
Speaker 2: been better, could have been worse. But she is not
Speaker 2: the problem. The problem is the system. The problem is
Speaker 2: the head, The problem is the mayor, The problem is
Speaker 2: the city manager. The problem is having interlopers like Iris
Speaker 2: Rawley and others too involved with the process of law enforcement.
Speaker 2: And you mentioned issue five, which changed the dynamic of
Speaker 2: police chiefs not only are hired, but also who they
Speaker 2: are held accountable to. And you know, when you have
Speaker 2: Chief Fiji or anyone for that matter, she is dancing
Speaker 2: to the tune of the piper. Af tabs the piper.
Speaker 2: She dances the tune. If you want the job, you
Speaker 2: got to dance the tune. And what's happening, I think
Speaker 2: is that she's simply going to fall on the sword.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 2: One may ask as to why would she be called
Speaker 2: back here on this Thursday morning from Denver to Cincinnati
Speaker 2: if they're just to tell her everything's okay. You know,
Speaker 2: when the city when and I will say this. You know,
Speaker 2: as much as people beat up the media, which has
Speaker 2: a whole other topic entirely is I agree and dissa
Speaker 2: I disagree with that for for different reasons, as far
Speaker 2: as the bias and stuff goes here locally and it's
Speaker 2: kind of silly, but nonetheless, someone found out about this
Speaker 2: and the word got out. The city manager's office is like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, someone leaked it out, and now we've got
Speaker 2: to answer it. And they come back and say, well,
Speaker 2: we've got some issues in the city she has to address.
Speaker 2: That's I mean, there's nothing urgent going on. What's changed.
Speaker 2: She has to immediately address departmental matters, is what Sherlong says, Well,
Speaker 2: why didn't she address apartment these issues right after what
Speaker 2: just happened. The latest issue on Fountain Square involving the
Speaker 2: shooting at Citybird, Well it should have been done right there.
Speaker 2: But now we're dragging this thing because someone's looking for
Speaker 2: political cover. He got an election coming up, Aftabs feeling
Speaker 2: the heat. Therefore, sure Long has got to do something.
Speaker 2: And the end result is, I know, we'll fire the
Speaker 2: chief and make it look like it's her fault, when
Speaker 2: in fact, I don't know. I don't think the voters
Speaker 2: are that stupid. I think that you realize it's the
Speaker 2: administration and this is much like firing lu An Arumo
Speaker 2: after the Bengals had dismal seasons and starts and we
Speaker 2: got to do something, and so we fire the coordinator
Speaker 2: who goes by the way, goes to Indianapolis, and they
Speaker 2: look like a playoff team. I meanwhile, the Bengals are languishing.
Speaker 2: We'll find out tonight if they can turn that around.
Speaker 2: But I think it's a I think it's a fair comparison.
Speaker 2: And I know a lot is made about community activist
Speaker 2: Irish Roller. You know, she's making over one hundred thousand
Speaker 2: dollars a year as a consultant. I've heard worries about
Speaker 2: her sitting in with police officers or coming to town
Speaker 2: troopers who are here from the state of Ohio and
Speaker 2: others and dictating the terms of how they will interact
Speaker 2: with people. We see with law enforcement officers. Now, all
Speaker 2: law enforcement officers are trained by they got to be
Speaker 2: a pot of certified. There's certain law officers go through
Speaker 2: strict training. There's Ohio Revised codeal and there's a lot
Speaker 2: of things they learned. I don't know. Sitting and listen
Speaker 2: to some of the community tell them how they're going
Speaker 2: to handle their interaction with a subject or a suspect.
Speaker 2: I look at that and go, not quite sure. That's
Speaker 2: something you just couldn't print on a piece of paper
Speaker 2: and handle them. But to be lectured by Iris Rowley
Speaker 2: if you're a cop, I don't think that's going to
Speaker 2: sit well with most rank and file members of law enforcement,
Speaker 2: regardless if they're CPDU officers, SWAT officers, or highway patrol officers.
Speaker 2: But nonetheless that those are the terms in which we
Speaker 2: have engaged here politically in Hamlin County. I think it's
Speaker 2: fair for me because I think I'm the only voice
Speaker 2: on this station that is criticized. I think rightly so
Speaker 2: the problems with a Republican controlled legislation in Columbus, and
Speaker 2: I often catch arrows as a result of that, some
Speaker 2: sort of closet liberal or something. Now I'm just tired
Speaker 2: of bs. I'm tired of people lying to me. I
Speaker 2: don't care what if you're blue or red, or black,
Speaker 2: or white or male or female. Quit lying to me.
Speaker 2: Quit tell me this is delicious, when in turn it's poison.
Speaker 2: And I think it's fair then to turn around that
Speaker 2: criticism towards Hamlin County in the city of Cincinnati and
Speaker 2: say enough, damn it, it just doesn't work. I had
Speaker 2: my friend Anna all Beyond, and we disagreed about what
Speaker 2: needs to be done with these issues. She brought up
Speaker 2: that we need more gun laws. If we just had
Speaker 2: gun laws, none of this would be happening, to which
Speaker 2: I counter, that's bs. We have gun laws, they're just
Speaker 2: not being enforced. One of the most pre eminent gun
Speaker 2: laws we have, of course, is something called weapons under disability,
Speaker 2: which you often see on the docket and felony cases,
Speaker 2: meaning that if you have a felony record, it prohibits you.
Speaker 2: It precludes you from having a firearm, from looking, touching, handling, owning, possessing, controlling,
Speaker 2: or even thinking about a firearm. Can't do it. And
Speaker 2: you know, we're learning more about this individual who fire
Speaker 2: the bullets through the window a city bird, and I said,
Speaker 2: I would bet the house that this guy has priors
Speaker 2: to prohibit him from having a weapon. And guess what
Speaker 2: here we go again. Should Ryan Hitton have been running
Speaker 2: around with the gun in his hand, No, he's he's
Speaker 2: prohibited from having that weapon. The act of stealing a
Speaker 2: car and driving around it would prohibit him from having
Speaker 2: a weapon, let alone age and everything else. So and
Speaker 2: what else he was jammed up in. And also, you
Speaker 2: could be a law abiding citizen and defend your carry
Speaker 2: a gun even if you are eighteen. But at the
Speaker 2: same time, if you're in the act of a crime,
Speaker 2: an officer tells you to do something, you're supposed to
Speaker 2: drop the gun. Not only did not drop it, he
Speaker 2: picked it up and ran towards our round officers. He
Speaker 2: set all those circumstances up that led to his death.
Speaker 2: Ryan Hinton dead. But we look at that as well,
Speaker 2: if he would how's he getting the gun. He's getting
Speaker 2: the gun in his hand. He shouldn't. Yeah, he's under disciplined.
Speaker 2: He shouldn't have the gun. Well, the gun. There's too
Speaker 2: many guns out there, I would say. In Cincinnati, we saw,
Speaker 2: you know, the community gun thing. We've said on straw
Speaker 2: purchasers in the past and like. And the new problem
Speaker 2: is the fact that people who live, work, and reside
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati often don't feel safe and they feel the
Speaker 2: need because maybe it's social media, maybe it's also well,
Speaker 2: these real things that are happening from time to time,
Speaker 2: and too often, may I add, in our city that
Speaker 2: scare the hell out of people. You know, we heard
Speaker 2: testimony yesterday or maybe the day before from city Council
Speaker 2: and law and public safety, which is why I had
Speaker 2: an on and she heard the testimony going on and
Speaker 2: on and on from people who said, look, I own
Speaker 2: property in Cincinnati, I own rental property. I have people
Speaker 2: that are afraid to rent my property, my income, the
Speaker 2: investment that I made in the city that you wanted
Speaker 2: me to do. You encourage me to buy properties, Say
Speaker 2: come to Cincinnati. Look at all the cool stuff we have.
Speaker 2: We have a vibrant towntown and be part of it.
Speaker 2: Isn't this great? Be part of the vibe? Awesome? And
Speaker 2: then we didn't do a damn thing about stopping the
Speaker 2: criminal element or pretending to stop the criminal and we
Speaker 2: just let them run rampant because of feelings. And so
Speaker 2: now I'm stuck with this property that I can't rent
Speaker 2: out because people won't come downtown because they're afraid. And
Speaker 2: for those who say, well, you know, it's just the
Speaker 2: ignorant people. Since these largely safe, look me personally, I'll
Speaker 2: go down. I'll go downtown. There's certain neighborhoods and times
Speaker 2: I won't go out, but I will. But that's not everybody.
Speaker 2: So the fact you think downtown's perfectly safe and this
Speaker 2: is just a bunch of you know, made up stuff
Speaker 2: to talk about here on this radio station, I think
Speaker 2: you're full of it. I think you're I think that's
Speaker 2: true at all. If you have people who say, look,
Speaker 2: I can't rent, or I have a tenant that's scared.
Speaker 2: What should I do? Or you have say, hey, listen,
Speaker 2: I live in a neighborhood, I have friends and now
Speaker 2: they're moving out because of this and they're done with it.
Speaker 2: What have we spent all this time and effort in
Speaker 2: development and learning, businesses in and tax incentives and street
Speaker 2: cars and all that other stuff that we've done. What
Speaker 2: the hell is the point of that if it's come
Speaker 2: down to this, and so saying that, you know, we
Speaker 2: just we you know, people coming downtown now they're scared
Speaker 2: to death, and so now they feel the need to
Speaker 2: have to carry a gun with them in case they
Speaker 2: may need it because I don't know, maybe they're caught
Speaker 2: up in what happened at City Bird, or they're driving
Speaker 2: down the street and there's two idiots shooting each other.
Speaker 2: They're shooting at me as he's shooting at the other
Speaker 2: guy in the middle of traffic and rush hour. And
Speaker 2: my job is to come home to my family. My
Speaker 2: job is to live another day. So I'm going to
Speaker 2: carry that with me. Now, I can't take it to
Speaker 2: my place of work. I can't take it here, I
Speaker 2: can't take it there, I can't take it to the
Speaker 2: Bengals game time. I can't do any of that stuff.
Speaker 2: So I leave at my car. And now young people
Speaker 2: know that they break into cars, the ayre still guns.
Speaker 2: That's what Ryan Hint was doing. And that's all because
Speaker 2: of these failed policies. Wow, we just need more laws. No,
Speaker 2: we don't need more laws. We need judges that are
Speaker 2: going to do the hard work and enforce the laws
Speaker 2: that already on the books that if you get caught
Speaker 2: up and you're not allowed to have because of disability,
Speaker 2: a weapon and you're caught with it, we're going to
Speaker 2: put you behind bars for a long time. Now, that
Speaker 2: mean we need more prisons, And maybe that means we,
Speaker 2: you know, the people who aren't rising and level of
Speaker 2: those crimes, maybe we need to make space with them.
Speaker 2: That's certainly that's been discussed, it's been done, it's a possibility.
Speaker 2: But guess what, it's got to stop with people who
Speaker 2: pick up guns and carry them around and use them
Speaker 2: to settle arguments. We cannot have that at all. That
Speaker 2: that sort of like Terry cy Jow will fall on
Speaker 2: one hundred percent. And so I disagree that it's all
Speaker 2: this as well, But I think you also have to
Speaker 2: look at a relative to downtown and relative to Cincinnati,
Speaker 2: the mindset that's permeating our leadership and the administration when
Speaker 2: it comes to who's making the decisions. And you know,
Speaker 2: Aftab got elected because he's a handsome, decent looking, well
Speaker 2: spoken Asian man. I guess, multiple descents whatever. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's what we're looking for in the progressive community. Like, Okay,
Speaker 2: he's a guy. He was in charge of license plates
Speaker 2: one day and now he'sa all of a sudden, Okay,
Speaker 2: now he's the next mayor of the city. Say this
Speaker 2: is going to be great. Everything's good, everything feels good.
Speaker 2: And it's not just it started before him. But the
Speaker 2: problem with progressive policies are they're too soft on crime.
Speaker 2: And that is one thing Democrats nationwide cannot get away from.
Speaker 2: And that's what is making Trump trump right now. If
Speaker 2: you if you don't like Trump, well then you got
Speaker 2: to look at your own policies and how we the
Speaker 2: Democrats are on that, and how progressive policies are hurting
Speaker 2: urban cities. You know, we have ice, we have National Guard.
Speaker 2: He's exploiting that, certainly for political reasons to make a point.
Speaker 2: But the truth still remains is these are largely dangerous
Speaker 2: areas to be in and Cincinnati is fast becoming. If
Speaker 2: we're not there already one of those areas, what does
Speaker 2: it say that here we are. We have Thursday night
Speaker 2: football in Cincinnati. We got the Steelers in town, we
Speaker 2: got people from Pittsburgh, people from Cincinnati, good natured football.
Speaker 2: Hopefully the Bengals pull this thing off tonight. We'll find out.
Speaker 2: I've got Dan Horde at eleven oh seven to talk
Speaker 2: about this. But we're supposed to having a good time,
Speaker 2: and you know what, how many people are gonna be
Speaker 2: looking up their shoulder a little bit, and how many
Speaker 2: people are coming in from Pennsylvania or even local Steeler
Speaker 2: fans go downtown to the game and go, what the
Speaker 2: hell these guys doing around? All these swat offers are
Speaker 2: doing around. This is I've been to games before, primetime
Speaker 2: games in my in Pittsburgh, we don't have cops standing
Speaker 2: around with automatic weapons on Fountain Square and are gathering places.
Speaker 2: I mean, we have cops, but don't look like this.
Speaker 2: And this is again what we got. So I have
Speaker 2: a sneak suspicion I might be wrong. I think Corey
Speaker 2: Bowman has made some fine points, but is deep blue
Speaker 2: as Cincinnati is. I see AFTAB winning again, and I
Speaker 2: might be wrong. I've been wrong in the past a lot.
Speaker 2: Admit when I'm wrong, but I think it's again. It's
Speaker 2: here's the problems. People are just so used to and
Speaker 2: wanting folks like this to run things. And my fear
Speaker 2: is that okay gets reelected, is all this just going
Speaker 2: to go way? After November? Do we just go back
Speaker 2: to going Okay, I got another way, we got reelected. Great,
Speaker 2: all this stuff we're doing with the new chief in
Speaker 2: that was just to get elected. And then we go
Speaker 2: back and we'll have more of these stupid policies. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we need more gun laws. It's the fault of the
Speaker 2: Republicans and we need to get tougher on guns. And meanwhile,
Speaker 2: we've got judges that just simply let people out and
Speaker 2: you promised you're not going to do this again. We
Speaker 2: just had a guy do right.
Speaker 1: He was.
Speaker 2: He literally left court and the judge said, here's what
Speaker 2: you need. Judge Hathaway said, here's what you need to do.
Speaker 2: You need to report your probation officer, you need to
Speaker 2: get a job. I need to go killing people. So
Speaker 2: if that's the attitude we have relatives to probation and
Speaker 2: relative to locking people up and incarcerating them because they
Speaker 2: have a gun under disability, whether it's Sir Ryan Hinton
Speaker 2: or anyone else, I just have a fear that that
Speaker 2: those policies are going to wind up the things we're
Speaker 2: doing right now just simply to get reelected and once
Speaker 2: the election's over, the hell with it. Because we've seen
Speaker 2: this before. We you know, to bring it full circle.
Speaker 2: Point it back at state Republicans. We had initiatives on
Speaker 2: the ballot for marijuana and pro choice and things like
Speaker 2: and now the legends goes, Okay, elections over, I guess
Speaker 2: we're gonna do all We'll try to do that stuff.
Speaker 2: And that's the will of the people speaking right, They're
Speaker 2: sixty percent of the people say yes, or no to something.
Speaker 2: I think that's pretty decisive. You ought to bide by
Speaker 2: their wishes. But we try to find ways to poke
Speaker 2: holes in that. And is it any different? And I
Speaker 2: can argue it's far worse and what's happening in downtown Cincinnati,
Speaker 2: because it's not gonna be long before innocent people die.
Speaker 2: You know, we had Patrick Herringer. That was a wake
Speaker 2: up call for a lot of folks regarding this issue.
Speaker 2: But you know, some innocent person could have easily gotten
Speaker 2: shot in the last two gun battles on Fountain Square
Speaker 2: that we're talking about here, and it's only a matter
Speaker 2: of time before it happens again. And you know, I
Speaker 2: look at the beatdown in downtown Cincinnati. Why do you
Speaker 2: think people are so embolden as that they can do
Speaker 2: whatever the hell they want when they want. It's because
Speaker 2: of the vailure of leadership at the highest levels in
Speaker 2: the city. And guess what if we just keep electing
Speaker 2: the same people or versions of the same people, you
Speaker 2: get the same thing. I'm a big proponent of divided government.
Speaker 2: The more divided government is, the less crap like this
Speaker 2: they can do, whether it's local, state, or federal. On
Speaker 2: the way Jason Philibon is here speaking of Ryan hit
Speaker 2: as Dad. Rodney Hinton Junior was in court and a
Speaker 2: court appointed psychiatrist examined Rodney Hinton and said, well, there's
Speaker 2: definitely a component of insanity here. Rodney Hinton Junior, who brutally,
Speaker 2: deliberately stalked and murdered an innocent chef's deputy by the
Speaker 2: name of Larry Henderson, is now trying to get out
Speaker 2: of just punishment. How does that whole thing work with
Speaker 2: not guilty reason of insanity or in this case, just saying, hey,
Speaker 2: we're trying to work it down so this guy gets
Speaker 2: a life and not death. He didn't give that opportunity
Speaker 2: to Larry Henderson, that's for damn sure. Should he get it,
Speaker 2: we'll talk to We'll talk to a Jason Philibaum, attorney,
Speaker 2: a law Next on The Scotslan Show on seven hundred,
Speaker 2: w Weldon.
Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American?
Speaker 2: Rodney Hinton Juniors accused of killing Hemmelin County Sheriff Deputy
Speaker 2: Larry Henderson. May second and he this is the guy
Speaker 2: who took his car, drove around looking for a deputy
Speaker 2: to run over, and runs over a deputy Henderson, and
Speaker 2: all Henderson was doing is working a traffic until operating
Speaker 2: a light manually. At UC's graduation ceremony a few hours earlier,
Speaker 2: Hinton and his family got to look at body camera
Speaker 2: video of his eighteen notes son Ryan being fatally shot
Speaker 2: by Cincinnati Palasi. Video we've subsequently seen and said that
Speaker 2: kid had it coming running with a gun in his hand,
Speaker 2: dropping it, picking back up, not complying with law enforcement,
Speaker 2: and Rodney, they show the level of sociopath that he
Speaker 2: and maybe his son was decided that his son was
Speaker 2: completely innocent and we're going to have a shooting space
Speaker 2: as such. By the way, the Hinton family is still
Speaker 2: trying to file lawsuits and make this a case against
Speaker 2: CPD and officers and saying that justice was not served
Speaker 2: in the shooting of the sun even though this kid
Speaker 2: is running around with a gun, stealing cars and committing
Speaker 2: violent crimes with impunity. That's not the kind of people
Speaker 2: we need on the street. And you know that that
Speaker 2: pervasive attitude that permits in the community is not trickled
Speaker 2: up to the mayor's office. But nonetheless, yesterday a court
Speaker 2: appointed forensic psychologist found Rodney Hitton, Junior the dad suffering
Speaker 2: from serious mental illness, making him ineligible for the death pedal.
Speaker 2: The question is is he going to avoid punishment. We're
Speaker 2: going with the not guilty by reason of an insanity
Speaker 2: plea And this is just a preliminary by the way,
Speaker 2: this is a court appointed psychiatrist who was doing this.
Speaker 2: And there's a long way to go, and we'll find
Speaker 2: out if and when Rodney hint And will face the
Speaker 2: death penalty. Jason Philibaum, attorney, a law, former prosecutor and
Speaker 2: Butler County defense attorney, now joins the show. Jason, how
Speaker 2: you been good morning, doing well?
Speaker 3: Thank you?
Speaker 2: All right, We've had this discussion before about NGRI. But
Speaker 2: so the diagnosis for Hinton is bipolar disorder psychosis. A
Speaker 2: psychologist concluded that mental illnesses impacted compaired him to his
Speaker 2: ability to exercise rational judgment at the time of his offense.
Speaker 2: His attorney a very good attorney, and Clyde Bennett argues
Speaker 2: that hit And didn't understand the wrongfulness of his conduct.
Speaker 2: But I look at this and go, I know prosecutors
Speaker 2: are going to look at a second opinion. This is
Speaker 2: very early in the game. But when you drive around
Speaker 2: and you stalk your prey. That tells me that you
Speaker 2: are of right mind, you know exactly what you're doing.
Speaker 2: This is a really difficult approach that they're using here,
Speaker 2: isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yes, I think there's two things to consider.
Speaker 4: The first thing is to consider or whether or not
Speaker 4: he should be not guilty because of insanity, and that's
Speaker 4: a very specific definition of what whether he knew essentially
Speaker 4: the wrongfulness of his action. The second question, which is
Speaker 4: what they were kind of discussing yesterday, is whether he
Speaker 4: should be executed because of his mental health disorder. I mean,
Speaker 4: the one thing I always tell jury's and I've always
Speaker 4: told people, is people that commit crimes aren't mentally normal.
Speaker 4: I mean that's you know, everyone that essentially commits a
Speaker 4: violent crime like that has some issue going on. The
Speaker 4: question is is the issue the mental health so severe
Speaker 4: that it is prohibited, you know, to have the state
Speaker 4: use a death penalty. And I think that's what they're
Speaker 4: looking at right now. And Clyde, he does do a
Speaker 4: good job in this case. He's essentially attacking it from
Speaker 4: two different angles. He's saying, my client's not guilty because
Speaker 4: he's insane, and if you find him to be sane,
Speaker 4: then you can't put him to death because his mental
Speaker 4: health is so severe that that's not applicable to him.
Speaker 2: Right the law, Jason Philibama, believe correct, my Brin, you're
Speaker 2: the attorney, I'm not are are There are four specific
Speaker 2: mental illnesses that make defendants death penalty and eligible. And
Speaker 2: so how does the law define significantly impaired to exercise
Speaker 2: rational judgment, which is what's going on here, and the
Speaker 2: evidentiary standard prosecutors have to the burden they have to
Speaker 2: overcome to still pursue the death penalty.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the answer to that is probably a good law
Speaker 4: school class. But the in shorts, I think it was
Speaker 4: House Bill one thirty six that essentially prohibits the death
Speaker 4: penalty for those that were diagnosed with schizophrenia, I think
Speaker 4: schizophrenic disorder, bipolar disorder, and delusional disorder. But again, it
Speaker 4: has to be something that's significant. You know, anyone that's
Speaker 4: abused drugs usually will have some type of diagnosis with bipolar.
Speaker 4: But if it's not significant enough to impair and essentially
Speaker 4: effect their everyday life to the extent that you know,
Speaker 4: that's that's something I think would be a factual decision
Speaker 4: that has to be determined yeah.
Speaker 3: Got it.
Speaker 4: And so what you're going to what you're going to
Speaker 4: have from a preliminary standpoint is one psychologist basically said, yes,
Speaker 4: it's severe enough that he shouldn't be facing the death
Speaker 4: penalty at least that's what we kind of got from
Speaker 4: the court yesterday. And then the state's going to get
Speaker 4: a second opinion, which happens all the time, this is
Speaker 4: not abnormal. And if that doctor says it's not, then
Speaker 4: I think you're going to say that. The judge is
Speaker 4: going to say, let the jury decide that, and I'll
Speaker 4: explain that in a minute. But if the second opinion
Speaker 4: comes back and says though it's severe, then all of
Speaker 4: a sudden, you've got two opinions, one from the defense,
Speaker 4: one from the state, and they both say it's severe.
Speaker 4: Then you're going to have the situation where the state
Speaker 4: may take the death bonety off the table themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, And there's a high bars there should be
Speaker 2: for an insanity defense because mental ones alone, that doesn't
Speaker 2: mean legal insanity. There's a distinction. There's what you're saying,
Speaker 2: and so many people buy Paul, disorder and psychosis can distinguish, right,
Speaker 2: I'm wrong. I don't know, if I'm the prosecutor, IM
Speaker 2: look at this going, well, he knows how to the
Speaker 2: rational behavior would be. He gets in a vehicle, he
Speaker 2: operates a motor vehicle, presumably abides by most of the
Speaker 2: traffic laws. Anyway, on that date, he's looking for a target.
Speaker 2: He's out there basically stalking, looking for law enforcement officer
Speaker 2: to kill, maybe even a white law enforcement officer. The
Speaker 2: statements and what statements he made before during because I
Speaker 2: guess when they were showing him the video, he just
Speaker 2: kind of stormed out. The family tried to calm him down.
Speaker 2: He was just angry. But a lot of people commit
Speaker 2: crimes when they're angry. Look at the shootings at Fountain Square,
Speaker 2: that's probably about an anger, street beef stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean a mental mental illness or incompetency, you know.
Speaker 2: And at the time he took off, he struck him
Speaker 2: and they caught him later. And I think all that
Speaker 2: adds in the fact that you know, he made some
Speaker 2: sound decisions and was of the right mind that led
Speaker 2: up to the death of Anderson. I don't know how
Speaker 2: a jury wouldn't look at that.
Speaker 4: And those are exactly the points the prosecutor is going
Speaker 4: to argue if insanity is allowed to pursue, and you know,
Speaker 4: he has to have a psychologist that also supports the
Speaker 4: insanity defense. And the one interesting thing about that is
Speaker 4: we we can't see what these reports say. The judge
Speaker 4: specifically scolded or warned or whatever. Both parties that they
Speaker 4: do not want this report being leaked, so we don't
Speaker 4: know what's in the report.
Speaker 3: We don't know exactly what was said.
Speaker 4: We can surmise a little bit from the arguments, but
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, the prosecutor is going
Speaker 4: to argue, exactly what you just did. This was a
Speaker 4: calculated This was a planned This was premeditated at least
Speaker 4: by an hour or two, if not, you know, a
Speaker 4: few minutes. It doesn't have to be like a year
Speaker 4: long pre meditate. It's he planned it, even if it
Speaker 4: was in a short plan. So I think all of
Speaker 4: those arguments are what the state's going to argue that
Speaker 4: he is. He is guilty for what he did, and
Speaker 4: insanity does and apply. Now if he's found guilt, then
Speaker 4: in a death penalty phase, you then have a sentencing phase.
Speaker 4: It's this completely separate hearing. So jury goes back and
Speaker 4: just determines is he guilty or not, and if they
Speaker 4: find him guilty, then the defense and the state get
Speaker 4: together again and they present more evidence, and at this point,
Speaker 4: the state has a burden to prove that the death
Speaker 4: penalty is applicable in this case. And that's where you
Speaker 4: get a lot of mitigation from the defense. You know,
Speaker 4: oh he's a great guy, or oh he has these
Speaker 4: mental illness or get.
Speaker 3: It bad like like whatever.
Speaker 4: And that's where these reports really will come into play,
Speaker 4: because if they can convince a jury that he has
Speaker 4: this serious illness that prohibits the death penalty, then the
Speaker 4: jury won't be able to give the death penalty. And
Speaker 4: what's interesting is there's three off ramps for Clyde's client.
Speaker 4: The first is, if both reports come back, maybe the
Speaker 4: state takes it off or the judge says, I'm not
Speaker 4: going to allow it.
Speaker 3: What's more likely is you're going to have competing experts, and.
Speaker 4: So the judge is going to let the jury decide,
Speaker 4: and then the jury is going to essentially make their
Speaker 4: decision if they find the death penalty. Then the third
Speaker 4: off ramp will be an appellate court who will look
Speaker 4: at all the evidence and determine, and that's where we
Speaker 4: might see this development the appellate court.
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of sort of moving parts, but
Speaker 3: it really will come down to what this next expert says.
Speaker 2: Gotcha. He is a defense attorney. Jason Phillibaum, our legal
Speaker 2: expert on The Sloan Show talking about Rodney Hitton Junior.
Speaker 2: I know we got the Terry Thigi stuff. We're talking
Speaker 2: about that today as well, but this is an important
Speaker 2: story because he's accused of killing Deputy Larry Henderson. I
Speaker 2: remember that after his son was out with a gun
Speaker 2: and got shot by Cincinnati police officers. I showed them
Speaker 2: the video of the shoot and was a go. Was
Speaker 2: ruled a deemed a good shooting on the part of
Speaker 2: the police officers because the sun was running around with
Speaker 2: a gun, stolen car. Eighteen year old Ryan Hidden legally
Speaker 2: shot by Cincinnati police. He loses his mind apparently and
Speaker 2: goes and kills for no reason Deputy Larry Henderson as
Speaker 2: quote unquote revenge. And now they're trying to play thee Well,
Speaker 2: he had bipolar disorder and psychosis, and safe to say
Speaker 2: most people have some mental illness in their life. I
Speaker 2: mean everyone thinks they're normal. The rest of the world
Speaker 2: is aft up. But that's not the case. We're all
Speaker 2: flawed in some way, shape or form. I think what
Speaker 2: he did is beyond the effect of psychosis or bipolar disorder.
Speaker 2: I mean, clearly he knew what he was doing when
Speaker 2: he murdered Larry Henderson and now is just trying to
Speaker 2: evade his due punishment in this case. When a court
Speaker 2: appointed forensic psychologists that testify that he's got these illnesses Jason, Okay,
Speaker 2: so he testifies, prosecutors will get a second opinion and
Speaker 2: make contradute the first. How does the judge sort this
Speaker 2: all out?
Speaker 4: Well, it's difficult, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: there's some judges that will, you know, try to impose
Speaker 4: their own sort of decision.
Speaker 3: On the case. And we've talked about that.
Speaker 4: We kind of, you know, want a judge that's going
Speaker 4: to more interpret the law and not necessarily make the law.
Speaker 4: So some judges may look at this and say, I'm
Speaker 4: taking the death penalty off the table. I have enough
Speaker 4: to do it because this expert says, So. I think
Speaker 4: what you're going to see more judges do is take
Speaker 4: a look at it and if it's a factual issue.
Speaker 4: I'm going to let the jury decide it, because that's
Speaker 4: essentially what our society is based on, is let the
Speaker 4: jury decide, you know, the factual issues. Now, if it's
Speaker 4: clear cut, then I think the judge has a duty
Speaker 4: then to take the death penalty off the table. So
Speaker 4: if every expert says this is so severe that the
Speaker 4: death penalty shouldn't apply, then I think the judge has
Speaker 4: a duty to do it. But if you have competing experts,
Speaker 4: one says he is one says he's got issues, but
Speaker 4: not to the point that the death penalty should be excluded,
Speaker 4: then I think most judges are going to say, I'm
Speaker 4: going to let the jury decide this.
Speaker 3: That way, you know, there's a fair trial, and jury decides.
Speaker 4: And then they're selling a pellet court that's going to
Speaker 4: look at it again and determine whether or not, you know,
Speaker 4: the judge made the right decision, whether the ju made
Speaker 4: the right.
Speaker 3: Decision, and so on.
Speaker 4: So I think the best thing to do is let
Speaker 4: it go through the process. But when a judge sort
Speaker 4: of takes one side and rips away their their case.
Speaker 3: I think that's what a lot of a lot of
Speaker 3: people don't like. To see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Jason Philibon. The idea here is that we
Speaker 2: know he's guilty. You got you've got in place to
Speaker 2: the scene. You've got the smoking gun, you've got the murder,
Speaker 2: you've got the deliberation, you've got the intent, you got
Speaker 2: all that stuff. There's no question about it. He's the
Speaker 2: guy and he did what he did. Uh what Clyde
Speaker 2: Bennett is trying to do in a send some wiggle
Speaker 2: room to save this guy's life. That's all this is right?
Speaker 5: Yes, And you know what's interesting is we all get
Speaker 5: to the issue of the death pale, like you know
Speaker 5: what happened with Charlie Kirk and his his assassination. At
Speaker 5: some point, you know, is life in prison worse than
Speaker 5: the death penalty? But right now, that's not a decision
Speaker 5: the jury makes. That's not a decision that the judge
Speaker 5: should make or the attorney should make. That's the decision
Speaker 5: of society makes. So they look at this case individually.
Speaker 5: Does the death time the apply it does based on
Speaker 5: the alleged facts, And then the second question is should
Speaker 5: the defendant get the death penalty?
Speaker 4: And all the Ohio law did was really sort of
Speaker 4: podify what the Supreme Court has already said you can't
Speaker 4: execute the mentally ill, you can't execute minors, you can't
Speaker 4: execute you know, low IQ individuals. They and then so
Speaker 4: Ohio took it one step further and said, the mentally
Speaker 4: ill are these four categories, and we're not going to
Speaker 4: let you do that. It still comes down to a
Speaker 4: factual decision, though, about whether or not this individual meets
Speaker 4: those criteria, and I think that's what a jury should
Speaker 4: decide in this case.
Speaker 3: With that said, if a second opinion.
Speaker 4: Comes back and as clear as day that this guy's
Speaker 4: got some problems, then it's just a matter of you know,
Speaker 4: life in prison versus not And I think that's a
Speaker 4: guilty versus not guilty, and like you said.
Speaker 3: That's not really in question. The question is what happens
Speaker 3: when the jury finds them guilt.
Speaker 2: In this case, does does intent override mental illness? In
Speaker 2: that the prosecutors claimed to hit and intentionally drove in
Speaker 2: to Henderson. I think that's clear that he did. But
Speaker 2: does that evidence of intentional, purposeful, willful conduct undermine the
Speaker 2: mouth allness claim.
Speaker 4: It does to some extent, But you have to think
Speaker 4: about almost every crime is intent.
Speaker 3: Imagine a guy that's hopped up on drugs and breaks.
Speaker 4: Into a house and then you know, gets into a
Speaker 4: fight with a homeowner and kills him. That was all intentional.
Speaker 4: But in this case, like you emphasize, which is what
Speaker 4: the prostitutes emphasized, there was an intent to kill long
Speaker 4: before you broke into a house and stumbled across the homeowner.
Speaker 3: You know, that was sort of a secondary intent.
Speaker 4: This guy was, you know, a leisuredly driving down the
Speaker 4: street looking for an officer to exact his revenge. And
Speaker 4: I think that's what's going to like you said, probably
Speaker 4: err on the side of Hey, this person was sane
Speaker 4: enough to coordinate a plan of attack to kill this
Speaker 4: individual standing on the side of the road, and that's
Speaker 4: going to go against whether or not the psychosis is
Speaker 4: so bad that it should take the death penalty off
Speaker 4: the table.
Speaker 2: Now, in the hitting case, how common is it for
Speaker 2: faces for what I believe aggravated murder is what the
Speaker 2: charge is, to successfully use mental illness as a defense here,
Speaker 2: it's pretty rare that they succeed.
Speaker 3: Well, it's it's rare in the guilt phase, but it's
Speaker 3: actually not that.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's more common in the you know, I've
Speaker 4: had death penalty cases where I remember one of my
Speaker 4: first death penalty cases, the guy stabbed the guy twenty
Speaker 4: three times, and we argue to the jury that, you know,
Speaker 4: he should face the death penalty because it was a
Speaker 4: burglary and a murder, and the jury came back and
Speaker 4: found life. And the reason was is, you know, the
Speaker 4: guy had a bad childhood, he had some mental health issues,
Speaker 4: he was depressed, he was anxious, and they felt that
Speaker 4: was enough to you know, take off the death penalty
Speaker 4: and just do life.
Speaker 3: And isn't And I think because it has to be
Speaker 3: a unanimous decision.
Speaker 4: So what happens is there's twelve jurors and ten are
Speaker 4: saying death and two are saying no this. You know,
Speaker 4: there's two reasons why he should maybe not get death.
Speaker 4: And then after two days of deliberation, the jury comes
Speaker 4: back with life because they're thinking, hey, life is worse
Speaker 4: than death. I mean, I'm if I have to spend
Speaker 4: the rest of my life in prison, that's awful. I
Speaker 4: think that's why defense attorneys will argue, and sometimes very successfully,
Speaker 4: that mental health is a reason why you should put
Speaker 4: this person in prison for life instead of death.
Speaker 2: All right, Jason philibum. Finally, December first, I believe is
Speaker 2: the next hearing. It's insignificant one, and the determination there
Speaker 2: is going to be whether a judge finds hitting death
Speaker 2: penalty and eligible or eligible. If indeed that happens December first,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure we'll talk around, then can prosecute just
Speaker 2: appeal that decision for the trial and what's going to
Speaker 2: happen December first and quickly thereafter.
Speaker 3: That's a good quest.
Speaker 4: And you know, typically a prosecutor cannot appeal that decision
Speaker 4: prior to the trial, so the prosecutors have very limited
Speaker 4: appellate rights.
Speaker 3: It's usually after the fact, and if.
Speaker 4: Someone has found not guilty, then you know they can
Speaker 4: have an appeal that argues law, but it's not going
Speaker 4: to change the verdict. So in this particular case, I
Speaker 4: think they're probably going to be stuck with whatever the
Speaker 4: judge decides. I mean, they could appeal after the fact,
Speaker 4: but it's not going to change this case. So what
Speaker 4: it's really going to come down to what December happens,
Speaker 4: is what their expert says.
Speaker 3: If they're expert, and I would expect their expert.
Speaker 4: Comes back and just has a different opinion, then I
Speaker 4: would expect the judge to say, let us go to
Speaker 4: trial and decide. But again, if it's a situation where
Speaker 4: you know it's clear that he has such a mental
Speaker 4: health issue that qualifies under this house build then and
Speaker 4: you may see the prosecutor withdraw it to himself.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 2: He is Jason Philibauma attorney at law. I'm are a
Speaker 2: prosecutor now in private practice explaining what the path forward is.
Speaker 2: Here Rodney Hinton Junior, in his insanity play, a court
Speaker 2: ordered psychologist concluded he's got mental health illness. It's significantly
Speaker 2: impaired's ability to exercise rational judgment when he decided to
Speaker 2: murder and stalk and kill Larry Henderson, which I think
Speaker 2: if I were in a jury, I disagree with that.
Speaker 2: But we'll find out with the defense or the I
Speaker 2: guess the prosecutors move now and then that hearing on
Speaker 2: December first, and all the whole sorts out. But he
Speaker 2: is Jason Philipon. Thanks again for the sharp legal insight
Speaker 2: as always, buddy, appreciate you.
Speaker 3: I appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 2: All right, we move on next up on the Scottslan
Speaker 2: Show on seven hundred W to of course, we start
Speaker 2: with the news updates about four five minutes away, and
Speaker 2: later on we'll get to Dan Hort Thursday Night football.
Speaker 2: Something a little lighter for us today Cincinnati Pittsburgh and
Speaker 2: all closer than that the state of Terry Thiji as
Speaker 2: we await the verdict on her career future, whether and
Speaker 2: you know, again, I don't think it matters if it's
Speaker 2: Thiji or it's and Chief anybody else for that matter,
Speaker 2: in the long list people been around and again it
Speaker 2: is the piper that's calling the tune, and the piper
Speaker 2: would be after pure Vault manager shere along. I don't know,
Speaker 2: maybe Iris rawling a bunch of others, but Fiji is
Speaker 2: like kind of like when Zach Taylor fired lou Ana
Speaker 2: Arumo last season, and that is it really lou Anaruma
Speaker 2: because he took his show to Indianapolis and they're five
Speaker 2: and one? So is it really the the person who's
Speaker 2: subject to the rule or the rulemakers themselves? You decide.
Speaker 2: Seven hundred W wild Scott Floan show. This is a
Speaker 2: seven hundred W wild w who just ran that story
Speaker 2: about the represent of Dave Taylor Claremont County, And I
Speaker 2: guess someone whose office had a flag I didn't describe
Speaker 2: it as on a blog the substack called the Rooster
Speaker 2: when I give a credit there to the person who
Speaker 2: broke the story. But someone's on a conference calling the background.
Speaker 2: He's on American flag and the middle bars. I don't
Speaker 2: know how to describe this. Middle bars are the red
Speaker 2: stripes across America flag are altered in the fashion to
Speaker 2: make it look like a swastika in the middle of it,
Speaker 2: and comparatively to a Nazi swastika, which is kind of angle.
Speaker 2: This is upright. I don't know. It's just a weird,
Speaker 2: weird story that's breaking right now. I don't know if
Speaker 2: it's a photo manipulation, if it's a real thing, but
Speaker 2: a reportedly capital The police have gone and actually sees
Speaker 2: the flag itself, and at some point we'll have an
Speaker 2: update on that investigation. I've reached out to Representative Taylor,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure at some point I'll come on and
Speaker 2: talk about it as they continue the investigation. So we
Speaker 2: have that going on this morning as well. Every time
Speaker 2: one of these stories break, I go, you think, maybe
Speaker 2: the price, you know, and I hate to say it's
Speaker 2: gonna come out wrong. There's a lot of the stuff
Speaker 2: I say oftentimes, but I'll just blurt it out there.
Speaker 2: You think maybe some of these boosters programs and our towns,
Speaker 2: villages and hamlets that maybe just got too much money.
Speaker 2: Not to blame the victim here at all. We have
Speaker 2: a couple of stories that are g Layton right now.
Speaker 2: Dearborn County. Dearborn got forty six year old president of
Speaker 2: a civics club in a small town Dearborn County. This
Speaker 2: charge of a felony for stealing over well, it was
Speaker 2: like one hundred thousand dollars still fifty grand between twenty
Speaker 2: eighteen and twenty twenty five kind of bled them a
Speaker 2: little bit, but the amount is actually higher than that.
Speaker 2: And now he's in hot water because this small town
Speaker 2: civics club, he was using it to go to casinos
Speaker 2: and trips and cruises and everything else. In Mason, a
Speaker 2: forty four year old woman who's convicted for theft I
Speaker 2: think a fellony five and telecommunications fraud. She's stole over
Speaker 2: six thousand dollars from the Mason Football Boosters account to
Speaker 2: pay personal credit card expenses. She was the head of
Speaker 2: the Mason Cheerboosters group, so she had some access to
Speaker 2: the football booters, I guess doing them some help. But
Speaker 2: then they said, well, wait a minute, she's not even
Speaker 2: with the football boosters, and yet she got six thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: Let's check out the Mason cheer booster's account, and there
Speaker 2: they found that she stole almost thirty thousand dollars from
Speaker 2: that account. Now people hear that. I hear that and go,
Speaker 2: what is wrong with you? You're stealing from kids, you're
Speaker 2: still from civic organizations. But at the same time, the
Speaker 2: other part of me is, and this is not the
Speaker 2: first time that's happened. Is this happens rather frequently if
Speaker 2: you follow it. And the amount of money that's being
Speaker 2: grifted here is it's not the tenas. What's a lot
Speaker 2: of money, you know, specifically, I look at the Mason one,
Speaker 2: which is close to home for me. Okay, six thousand
Speaker 2: from the football, thirty thousand dollars from the cheer boosters,
Speaker 2: And look than some of these accounts, and they're in
Speaker 2: the hundreds of thousands of dollars. And one I think
Speaker 2: legitimately I may ask, is well, you know, why are
Speaker 2: you stealing the money? Because I think they probably see
Speaker 2: it as a victimist crime. They probably go, well, you know,
Speaker 2: I deserve it because I volunteer. I do the same reason,
Speaker 2: the same excuse that there's a psychological term for this,
Speaker 2: and and bother looking that up. I'll just spurt this.
Speaker 2: But where we're like, you know, pastors will skim money,
Speaker 2: or they'll involve in, you know, extra marital affairs. All
Speaker 2: the stuff that they preach against doing, they'll do themselves.
Speaker 2: There's a sense of entitlement that I was like, well,
Speaker 2: I work hard, and I'm good in all these other
Speaker 2: lives and improving other lives and other charities and things
Speaker 2: I do, and so I'm allowed this deliance, I think
Speaker 2: is the how you describe. It's kind of like for
Speaker 2: the rest of us would be, hey, you know I
Speaker 2: ate right and exercised, I did all this stuff that
Speaker 2: I did. You know what, I deserve to eat an
Speaker 2: entire pizza. It's kind of like the same mentelity. I
Speaker 2: think I'm gonna be wrong about that. But in both cases,
Speaker 2: and specifically, I mean you're sitting there go like wow,
Speaker 2: yeah times, or or like there's just stuff I want
Speaker 2: that I can't afford because the decisions I made, or
Speaker 2: because of things that happened in my life. Or combination
Speaker 2: of both, which is true for all of us. I mean, hell,
Speaker 2: I would love to go buy a, you know, a Lamborghini,
Speaker 2: but scotts Loan's not buying a Lamborghini anytime soon Afterdamn sure,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna continue to driving the old truck. The same
Speaker 2: for you, so we don't go and do those things
Speaker 2: because I really don't. I can't do any more prison
Speaker 2: time personally, I can't. I can't be down. I just
Speaker 2: I've been there, I've done that. I'm not going back
Speaker 2: to prison. And you probably think the same way, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't want to be I don't want to throw
Speaker 2: everything away. I've worked for my entire life. I'm good,
Speaker 2: So I guess I won't get that Lamborghini or that
Speaker 2: shiny new thing. Some people can't stay stand out of
Speaker 2: control those urges. But I also look at it and go,
Speaker 2: how much money do you actually need for high school
Speaker 2: and middle school cheerleaders? And I know it's going to
Speaker 2: come off as victim blaming and I'm trying not to
Speaker 2: do that, but for the life of me, I can't
Speaker 2: figure out why you need that much money. I know
Speaker 2: there's travel, and there's uniforms and expenses and really is
Speaker 2: there or is it just you make that up and go, yeah, well,
Speaker 2: we got all these things we need to do. Do
Speaker 2: you really need to have home and away uniforms and
Speaker 2: travel and have fireworks at a touchdown in middle school?
Speaker 2: And you really don't, No, you don't. But we've gotten
Speaker 2: away from that in America, and that's probably true for
Speaker 2: the industry. It's created. As you know, we have kids
Speaker 2: that are five six seven having personal trainers and coaches
Speaker 2: and five sixty seven. You know, when we're five six seven,
Speaker 2: we barely keep our shoes on, Like when I coached
Speaker 2: my son's little league team when he's not very athletic.
Speaker 2: Admittedly he doesn't like it. We tried, we tried soccer,
Speaker 2: we tried t ball, we tried all that stuff, and yeah,
Speaker 2: at that age, you're lucky if you can get them
Speaker 2: to keep their glove and shoes on, let alone practice
Speaker 2: the art of a double play. It's not happening. And
Speaker 2: so we've got all this invested because when our kids
Speaker 2: would be successful athletes and we prop them up in
Speaker 2: Athlete of the Week and athlete this, and they're going
Speaker 2: to get a scholarship and probably not, but we hope.
Speaker 2: So when you know we put so much in those adults,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't surprise me there's that much money in
Speaker 2: those accounts, which is allure for some people. But the
Speaker 2: fact that people steal money's nothing new. The fact that
Speaker 2: we have one hundred thousands of dollars in cheerleading accounts
Speaker 2: and boost your accounts and stuff like that. I could
Speaker 2: see that college because that's college money. But middle school,
Speaker 2: high school, I don't know. Man, I don't know. But
Speaker 2: that's back on all of us, isn't it. That's on
Speaker 2: me and that's you because that's what we hold up here.
Speaker 2: This doesn't surprise me. So STORYU of Arkansas this morning.
Speaker 2: Bear with me a second. This guy is running for sheriff,
Speaker 2: So what case you guy's running for sheriff in some
Speaker 2: place in Arkansas? So what the sheriff is facing second
Speaker 2: degree murder charges? Because now check this out, he admitted
Speaker 2: to He said, yep, I shot the guy. Sixty seven
Speaker 2: year old man was found with the sheriff the candidate's
Speaker 2: fourteen year old daughter in the candidate's car right now.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. In the guy's name is Michael Fossler, sixty
Speaker 2: seven years old. The sheriff' named Aaron Spencer, the guy
Speaker 2: running for sheriffs Aaron Spencer. Spencer admits he shot sixty
Speaker 2: seven year old Michael Fossler after finding Fossler with his
Speaker 2: fourteen year old daughter alone in Fossil's car. At the time,
Speaker 2: Fossler was out on bail after being arrested on accusations
Speaker 2: of sex crimes, and not just one, dozens of sex
Speaker 2: crimes involving the same fourteen year old girl. Now, if
Speaker 2: your mom, if your dad, what do you think about
Speaker 2: him running for office? He's looking at forty five years
Speaker 2: in prison and obviously would become disqualified from being sheriff.
Speaker 2: Three hundred and sixty thousand people, I said, three hundred
Speaker 2: and sixty thousand people outside a petition hoping to absolve
Speaker 2: him of his alleged crimes. And it's small, rural Arkansas.
Speaker 2: But nonetheless, the polling suggests he would win that election
Speaker 2: hands down, and he admitted to murdering a man who
Speaker 2: is facing sexual molestation charges against his daughter. I would
Speaker 2: vote for Aaron Spencer. I know what the laws are,
Speaker 2: and I know what the rules are. And maybe it's
Speaker 2: because I live in Cincinnati, Ohio, and I see what happens.
Speaker 2: I get it, like there are crimes and then there
Speaker 2: are crimes, right, the Epstein stuff. I get the outrage.
Speaker 2: I get the anger that people on the right feel
Speaker 2: about what's going with the Epstein fils. Oh my god, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're gonna expose it to do this. Okay, Yeah, there's
Speaker 2: nothing to see here. Wait, it just went away. It
Speaker 2: didn't really go away. It's gone back back up there
Speaker 2: in the election. There's no doubt. So I get that
Speaker 2: there are crimes are just so egregious and so heinous,
Speaker 2: and even the suggestion the propriety of it is a
Speaker 2: hanging of fence. And so when you hear those stories
Speaker 2: and then you see what's happening to a lesser lovel,
Speaker 2: I'm not. I would to say lesser love of murder's
Speaker 2: pretty serious too. People shooting eachself. You realize, like, Okay,
Speaker 2: vigil ante time. The dude's a vigilante and he is
Speaker 2: the reason he would win that election is because he
Speaker 2: symbolizes the vigilantie we're looking for. We're looking and for
Speaker 2: someone to kick come in and kick ass. Remember that
Speaker 2: you're old enough the old Charles Bronson movies back in
Speaker 2: the day, right and we've got Reacher today. It's the
Speaker 2: same thing. When there's times like this where you feel like, wow,
Speaker 2: the world's out of control and there's dangerous people running
Speaker 2: around with impunity and no one's keeping them in check.
Speaker 2: We always have the rise of the vigilani Hollywood character
Speaker 2: right and reach her. I mean kind of sort of
Speaker 2: fits that role, not like Charles Bronton did back in
Speaker 2: the day, but that's always been popular. We just need
Speaker 2: a bad ass to whoop some ast, and we just
Speaker 2: need someone go whoops some ass with the bad guys
Speaker 2: here off the record, we kind of this guy's like,
Speaker 2: you know what, he's with my daughter. He's ready to
Speaker 2: charges and he's back with it again and he's on it.
Speaker 2: You probably should get shot. I think he's doing at
Speaker 2: that case, at sixty seven, maybe doing society a favor.
Speaker 2: Now he may be I know, this is not justice. No,
Speaker 2: he should come on. That's horrible. You can't say that
Speaker 2: because he should have his day in court and the
Speaker 2: whole thing. But I mean, come on, man, you don't
Speaker 2: think this guy did something. He's arrested on dozens of
Speaker 2: sex crimes against the fourteen year old who hasn't a car. Again,
Speaker 2: I mean maybe you know, I'm sure there's someone going, well,
Speaker 2: the fourteen year old, Well, why was she in the
Speaker 2: car with him? Why aren't you watching your daughter? Or
Speaker 2: why was she with Well, she's making your own decision.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you're fourteen year underage. You can't make those decisions.
Speaker 2: I kind of get what's going on in Arkansas there,
Speaker 2: and it's just it's again a reflection of our times.
Speaker 2: He is somewhat the anti hero. This Aaron Spencer got's comedy.
Speaker 2: Interesting story. I'd imagine it's probably gonna get a lot
Speaker 2: more legs. But you know, he still did, indeed murder
Speaker 2: a man, and you're gonna be sheriff. And I don't
Speaker 2: know if that enables you to then go do other
Speaker 2: vigilanti type stuff. But I get where the sentiment is,
Speaker 2: like I don't know who the other candidate is, but
Speaker 2: this dude's a badass. Like you know, I'm a father
Speaker 2: of a girl, so I'm with him. Like that stuff
Speaker 2: goes on. You gotta do what you gotta do. So
Speaker 2: I don't know if I do it, but I sure
Speaker 2: respect the hell out of it. That's for sure. That's
Speaker 2: for sure. That's going on in Arkansas by the way Arkansas.
Speaker 2: We gotta get a news update, so coming up in
Speaker 2: just minutes. Here, Dan Horde, voice of the Bengal's gonna
Speaker 2: jump in Cincinnati Pittsburgh tonight, Thursday Night football. The eyes
Speaker 2: of the football world are honus here in Cincinnati, says
Speaker 2: city always looks good. Now we'll get that shot of
Speaker 2: Mountain Square, will get the shot of the Genius of
Speaker 2: Water Statue. Just disregard the guys with long guns and
Speaker 2: tactical gear on. Never mind that the city's gonna look
Speaker 2: nice tonight. Hopefully and hopefully there's no knuckleheads doing stuff
Speaker 2: that overshadow this event. Hopefully the knuckleheads on the field
Speaker 2: can figure this out and get a win for the
Speaker 2: first time since Joe Burrow went down four straight losing
Speaker 2: sarshow shirt games losing and look to break that where
Speaker 2: they win tonight against the Pittsburgh Stale. It's gonna be
Speaker 2: tough and the icy hot bulls we've been calling it
Speaker 2: between Joe Flacco and a guy that used to be
Speaker 2: up north that is now over in the East and
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh and Aaron Rodgers. Tonight, we'll have the game for you.
Speaker 2: Our coverage starts at at three o'clock today Live broadcast,
Speaker 2: Holy Grailed Banks, home of the best Bengals coverage, seven
Speaker 2: hundred WTM.
Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American? All right?
Speaker 2: Thursday night football circus is in town. Bengals, Steelers, Cincinnati,
Speaker 2: trying to stop the fourteen bleed and get a win
Speaker 2: on a short week. It gets a little easier schedule
Speaker 2: wise with us. You got Jets, you got Bears before
Speaker 2: the and you got to go there. Of course, back
Speaker 2: to Pittsburgh, but Ravens Bills really banged up. You think
Speaker 2: some of those players will get healthy. Not quite sure
Speaker 2: about QB one mar Jackson, but we'll see. Patriots are rolling.
Speaker 2: You got Miami, Arizona, Cleveland. So you know, at this
Speaker 2: point in the season, we're doing the math and trying
Speaker 2: to get to nine wins. But tonight, tonight feels like
Speaker 2: you can't let Pittsburgh go to five and one on
Speaker 2: That is the voice of the Bengals. That would be
Speaker 2: Dan Horde this morning on seven hundred w welw and Dan,
Speaker 2: I was talking about you just days ago, and condolences
Speaker 2: to you. Jim Kelly Junior, your broadcast partner for many
Speaker 2: many years, over two decades passed away from cancer too early.
Speaker 2: You read that and went, man, I know he was sick,
Speaker 2: but I didn't know it was his Time's condolences to
Speaker 2: you the Bearcat family. You can't say enough about how
Speaker 2: good a guy he was.
Speaker 3: It's heartbreaking, Slney. Jim Kelly Junior was as good as
Speaker 3: a gets and I really am having a hard time
Speaker 3: believing I am not going to be having a light
Speaker 3: beer with him tomorrow night at a hotel bar in Stillwater, Oklahoma.
Speaker 3: I joked the other night that Jim Kelly Junior is
Speaker 3: in the Hotel Bar Hall of Fame. There's nothing that
Speaker 3: he liked more than having a beer in his hand,
Speaker 3: talking football with Bearcats fans, meeting the parents of our players,
Speaker 3: hanging out at tailgates, and getting fired up for the
Speaker 3: upcoming game. People love doing that with him. He loved
Speaker 3: doing it with them. He's just an awesome person. And man,
Speaker 3: I'm going to miss him so much. It came way
Speaker 3: too quickly. Just a few weeks ago, he had had
Speaker 3: a surgical procedure and at that point kind of anticipated
Speaker 3: he would miss one game and then would be back.
Speaker 3: And unfortunately, cancer sucks and it took his life far
Speaker 3: too soon.
Speaker 2: To take so many good people too. And he always
Speaker 2: struck me as the Joe nuxall of the Bearcats.
Speaker 3: It's a good comparison. His father, Jim Senior, started playing
Speaker 3: for UC in nineteen forty seven and served the athletic
Speaker 3: department for more than half a century as a player, coach,
Speaker 3: and the administrator. Then Jim came along, played for Thecats coach,
Speaker 3: briefly went on to be a broadcaster for thirty five years.
Speaker 3: Between him and his dad, there was a Jim Kelly,
Speaker 3: either senior or junior, affiliated with the university for seventy
Speaker 3: eight uninterrupted years. It's just an incredible family legacy. The
Speaker 3: UC Athletic Hall of Fame is named for his dad.
Speaker 3: Jim Junior is in the Hall of Fame. They're both
Speaker 3: UC Hall of Famers. So man, he's going to be missed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry for the loss. I mean it's it really
Speaker 2: is tragic. Let's segue to Thursday night football here in Cincinnati,
Speaker 2: got Pittsburgh in town and I mentioned, you know, you
Speaker 2: can't let Pittsburgh go to five and one to me, Dan,
Speaker 2: I think you got to win the night. You gotta
Speaker 2: feel like you can still control things. You got a
Speaker 2: divisional opponent in town. Chance to go to three and four,
Speaker 2: two and zero in the division. You know doesn't need
Speaker 2: to because you can look at the math and go, yeah,
Speaker 2: could you get to nine? Sure, but boy, it feels
Speaker 2: like a must win the night to me.
Speaker 3: Well, I know you're a Buffalo Bill's fan, Floony, so
Speaker 3: you can appreciate the great Marv Levy, one of the
Speaker 3: great coaches of all time. Marv was asked about a
Speaker 3: must win game once and said the last must win
Speaker 3: was World War Two. So this doesn't necessarily qualify, but
Speaker 3: it is a pivotal game for some of the reasons
Speaker 3: that you described. You don't want Pittsburgh to run away
Speaker 3: and hide and get the five and one. Having said that,
Speaker 3: you talked about how the Bengals have an easier schedule
Speaker 3: coming up. Here's what the Steelers have coming up. The Packers, Colts, Chargers, Bills, Lions.
Speaker 3: Two of their last few games of the season are
Speaker 3: against the Ravens when Lamar should be back. So they're
Speaker 3: probably going to come back to the Pack somewhat, but
Speaker 3: the climb to catch them gets much easier if you
Speaker 3: can beat them head to head. Tonight, the Bengals would
Speaker 3: be two and zero in the division. They would have
Speaker 3: had to head win against Pittsburgh in their pockets, right,
Speaker 3: must win, No, but pivotal game, absolutely, Yeah.
Speaker 2: In Pittsburgh's one of those teams. Strikes me is, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't see them as a big playoffs threat kind
Speaker 2: of team, but week to week, you know, it's one
Speaker 2: of the what kind of team are we getting this week?
Speaker 2: They always bring game when they come to Cincinnati.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the jury is still out somewhat as
Speaker 3: to just how good they are. You look at their
Speaker 3: four wins so far. They do have two wins against
Speaker 3: teams with winning records to beat the Patriots. Patriots are
Speaker 3: two games over five hundred. They beat the Vikings. The
Speaker 3: Vikings are one game over five hundred. But in that
Speaker 3: Patriots game, New England dominated statistically, but turned it over
Speaker 3: five times, including four fumbles, and they lost all four. Now,
Speaker 3: give Pittsburgh credit for forcing some of those turnovers, but
Speaker 3: there's certainly a luck element there when you fumble at
Speaker 3: four times and it goes to the other team every time.
Speaker 3: So Pittsburgh's good. I'm not sure that they have the
Speaker 3: ceiling of a team that can go a long way
Speaker 3: in the playoffs. But they get the best quarterback play
Speaker 3: they've had in a long time out of forty one
Speaker 3: year old.
Speaker 2: Are now as we know too, health has a long
Speaker 2: way to go with a two and so last week
Speaker 2: was the talent two haves. We had the offense and
Speaker 2: defense again, that complimentary game the coaches talk about was
Speaker 2: absent last week in Green Bay. You know, I want
Speaker 2: to think that Joe Flacca, like the second half was, Hey,
Speaker 2: I figured it out. Took me a few It took
Speaker 2: me a half, It took me four or five drives. Okay,
Speaker 2: they got to the fourth drives, like we started to
Speaker 2: see him figure things out a little bit more and
Speaker 2: who he could depend on. Who's a It takes a
Speaker 2: while to build chemistry.
Speaker 3: We know that.
Speaker 2: But this week, then if that's the truth, if we've
Speaker 2: had a strong second half last week offensively, that's got
Speaker 2: to carry over to tonight. I think you got to
Speaker 2: start with points on them. But he can't go down
Speaker 2: ten nothing like he did last week.
Speaker 3: They haven't scored a touchdown in the first half since
Speaker 3: Joe Burrow's injury, so they've been down by double digits
Speaker 3: at halftime in each of their last four games. It's
Speaker 3: really hard to dig out of those holes, particularly when
Speaker 3: you're playing good teams. And I don't think Pittsburgh's great,
Speaker 3: but they're certainly good, so they can't be way behind
Speaker 3: again at halftime. I think you're right about Placo. I
Speaker 3: think he started to feel comfortable in the second half
Speaker 3: last week. He had a passer rating of one oh
Speaker 3: seven after halftime, completed seventy percent of his passes. So
Speaker 3: I think he should be better over the course of
Speaker 3: four quarters in this game instead of like really struggling
Speaker 3: for the first two and then being really good in
Speaker 3: the last two. And he's certainly used to what he's
Speaker 3: going to see tonight. I think he's played against Pittsburgh
Speaker 3: twenty five times, including playoff games. He beat him last
Speaker 3: year while playing for the Indianapolis Colts. So there's nothing
Speaker 3: he's going to see tonight that he hasn't seen before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think too, as we saw the defense
Speaker 2: Wilton the second half, how much of that was personnel
Speaker 2: in schemes, but how much of that was the fact
Speaker 2: that they really hung around for the first half of
Speaker 2: the football game. And does that begin is that the
Speaker 2: problem the offense is getting off the field too quickly
Speaker 2: by the fourth quarter, the defense's gassed. Is it that simple?
Speaker 3: Well, that's certainly been true in some of their games
Speaker 3: this year. I didn't think that was the case as
Speaker 3: much last week because even in the first half, when
Speaker 3: the offense was terrible, the defense wasn't out there for
Speaker 3: a ridiculous long period of time. I mean, it was bad,
Speaker 3: but it wasn't like it was in some of the
Speaker 3: other games. And then in the second half the offense
Speaker 3: had some really long drives. The first drive of the
Speaker 3: second half was a seventeen play drive that should have
Speaker 3: helped the defense, but for whatever reason, the defense couldn't
Speaker 3: get a stop when they needed to in the second half.
Speaker 3: The Packers obviously had a lot to do with that.
Speaker 3: Jordan Love and that team is really good, but they
Speaker 3: need four quarters out of the defense. They've been getting
Speaker 3: two sometimes two and a half. If they haven't gotten
Speaker 3: four since Week one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll get to the d in a second, because
Speaker 2: I wanted to wrap up two with tight end. Mike
Speaker 2: Aseeki's out with that peck injury. Tanner Hudson is out
Speaker 2: with a concussion. So you're two top two two, So
Speaker 2: are we going to see? Are you gonna see more?
Speaker 3: No? Ah Fan.
Speaker 2: Are they going to go to three wide? But then again,
Speaker 2: Josavas struggled. Well, how do you see the after chasing Higgins?
Speaker 2: What do you see the options as well?
Speaker 3: They still have three tight ends, so they've lost two
Speaker 3: that they'd defend on in the passing game, but they
Speaker 3: still have three that they're going to use tonight. Noah
Speaker 3: Fan is the best pass catcher among the three they
Speaker 3: have left three Sample is the best blocker. Cam Grandy
Speaker 3: is more of a blocking type and receiving type, so
Speaker 3: if they throw it to the tight end, it's probably
Speaker 3: going to be no offan. But this team primarily is
Speaker 3: a three wide receiver, one running back, one tight end team.
Speaker 3: So yeah, Yossi Vosh had a lousy game last week,
Speaker 3: but I would expect him to be fine tonight.
Speaker 2: You get him in or what about Mitch Tinsley.
Speaker 3: Oh, Yosi Vash is the number three wide receiver, Tintley
Speaker 3: is the number four. They'll both play, but Andre will
Speaker 3: get more snaps.
Speaker 2: Gotcha all right? So defensive side of the ball, Dan Horde,
Speaker 2: interesting development, Logan Wilson, you got a captain, You got
Speaker 2: it with a green dot. He's in been in the league.
Speaker 2: What six years. I believe all of a sudden, Barrett
Speaker 2: Carter is now and he's a rookie. Demetrius Knight junior
Speaker 2: the other one, he's a rookie, and Wilson by far,
Speaker 2: I don't think is the biggest problem on de Why
Speaker 2: why Logan Wilson.
Speaker 3: I was really surprised by that one, to tell you
Speaker 3: the truth, I didn't see it coming. I thought that
Speaker 3: Logan Wilson was playing okay, he hadn't made any big plays,
Speaker 3: but I didn't think he was egregiously bad prior to
Speaker 3: last week. But I think this goes back to the
Speaker 3: stuff that we talked about in the off season flony
Speaker 3: when they signed Jamar and Tea on the same day
Speaker 3: and made their quarterback and their two wide receivers three
Speaker 3: of the highest paid players in the league. We said, then,
Speaker 3: the formula on defense, because it's the salary cap league,
Speaker 3: will have to be younger and cheaper, and I think
Speaker 3: this is a move in that direction. They've got two
Speaker 3: linebackers that they drafted this year that they like, and
Speaker 3: they want to try to develop them as quickly as possible.
Speaker 3: So I think they're willing to live with some growing,
Speaker 3: growing plant pains and hope that Metrius Knight and Barrett
Speaker 3: Carter can be their duel for a long time going forward.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I mean that that makes sense. There is
Speaker 2: wonder if there's a message in there, because you know,
Speaker 2: I'm going on a list of defensive players that are
Speaker 2: allied for so Logan Wilson is in the top few.
Speaker 2: But on the they here's some good news. They got
Speaker 2: some good news. Shamar Stewart is going to play tonight,
Speaker 2: and it's great to have him back because he looked
Speaker 2: pretty good. Missed the last what four games, had a
Speaker 2: little ankle sprain, and I think he's gone a lot
Speaker 2: of work tonight. Because the other guy in there, Trey Hendrickson,
Speaker 2: is still questionable. We won't ultile what about six forty five,
Speaker 2: six thirty six forty five if he's even going tonight.
Speaker 3: And the fact that he didn't practice all week, well,
Speaker 3: it's a short week. The fact that he hasn't practiced
Speaker 3: and didn't play in the second half last week against
Speaker 3: Green Bay doesn't bode well. If I had to make
Speaker 3: a guess, I don't think that Trey will play tonight.
Speaker 3: I hope I'm wrong, but it's good to have Schamar back.
Speaker 3: I thought he looked awesome in Week one against Cleveland.
Speaker 3: Didn't play that much in the second game before he
Speaker 3: suffered his injury, but he had a lot of wild
Speaker 3: moments at training camp and it's going to be fun
Speaker 3: to see him back out there against it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and get up to speed in that. You really
Speaker 2: hope Trey Hendrickson would be back because the man, I'll
Speaker 2: tell you what that all of a sudden, Now you
Speaker 2: got a little poppy all spark there, and we need
Speaker 2: that right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Trey has played extremely well. He's got four sacks,
Speaker 3: you know. I think he's actually played the run better
Speaker 3: this year than he's ever played it before, which has
Speaker 3: been cool to see. I think the new defensive line coach,
Speaker 3: Terry Montgomery, has really worked with Trey and convinced him that,
Speaker 3: you know, you can be one of the best all
Speaker 3: around defensive ends in the NFL, not just to get
Speaker 3: a great pass rusher. And I think that trade has
Speaker 3: been really good at defending the run. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Dan Hord Voice of the Bengals Tonight. It is Thursday
Speaker 2: Night Football at pay Corps, and the lights of the
Speaker 2: national media are here for us, and we're here for them.
Speaker 2: Bengals get going eight to fifteen tonight home. The best
Speaker 2: Bengals coverage are. We kick off our live coverage at
Speaker 2: the Banks at the three o'clock today, So if you're
Speaker 2: coming down for the game, stop on, buy for a
Speaker 2: cold one and some Bengals chat. So we got Shamar Stewart.
Speaker 3: That.
Speaker 2: One of the other things and maybe it's too early
Speaker 2: to talk about this is the rumors about Trey Hendrickson
Speaker 2: possibly now going to San Francisco. It's that time of year.
Speaker 2: We have the trade deadline coming up soon and players'
Speaker 2: names are often thrown around. I mean, does that make sense?
Speaker 3: Not yet? You know, we began this by talking about
Speaker 3: how if they win tonight, the right back in the hunt,
Speaker 3: and certainly that's the goal. So if they get the
Speaker 3: deadline and things, Yeah, if they get to the trade
Speaker 3: deadline and things have spiraled in a terrible direction, then
Speaker 3: you can begin talking about it. But anything being tossed
Speaker 3: out there right now, it's certainly not coming from the Bengals. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the rumors go around, but again it's up to
Speaker 2: the next couple of weeks to find out if this
Speaker 2: team can turn things around at least stop the bleed.
Speaker 2: Until you get Joe Burrow back. The secondary mentioned not
Speaker 2: the biggest problem the worlds logan Wilson can Taylor Britt
Speaker 2: continues to get on DA's hill, and DJ Turn, especially
Speaker 2: DJ Turn had a great week. They flashed as well.
Speaker 2: Aaron Rodgers gets out the ball. I think one of
Speaker 2: the quickest release times in the National Football League, if
Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken, like well under two point five seconds.
Speaker 2: Talk about the deep threats there because they brought DK
Speaker 2: Metcalf over from the Seahawks to address that, and he
Speaker 2: has been the go to option in that pass game.
Speaker 3: He's been good. He's everything just under nineteen yards to
Speaker 3: catch and he's really the only guy so far that
Speaker 3: Rogers has been throwing the ball down the field too.
Speaker 3: Rogers has kind of been dinking and dunking this year.
Speaker 3: You talked about him getting the all out of his
Speaker 3: hands quickly, and that's one of the reasons why he
Speaker 3: doesn't stretch the field like he once did. But he's
Speaker 3: been very effective and they're not asking him to be
Speaker 3: MVP era Aaron Rodgers. He doesn't throw it thirty times
Speaker 3: a game, but he's taking care of the ball. He's
Speaker 3: only got three interceptions he's not taking sacks. He's only
Speaker 3: been sacked nine times. They don't have a lot of
Speaker 3: negative plays on offense, so they're rarely in like third
Speaker 3: and ten, third and twelve. They just kind of have
Speaker 3: been methodically moving down the field. Don't have a great
Speaker 3: running game, at least not yet. But Rogers has been effective. Im.
Speaker 3: I'll give him credit because I didn't know how much
Speaker 3: he had left, and he's actually been playing pretty well.
Speaker 2: He really has. I mean, that's the thing is I
Speaker 2: think maybe sticking it to the Jets. But the Jets
Speaker 2: are you know, they're a wastelander is what that team
Speaker 2: has been for a long time. So to see him
Speaker 2: come out and go, and I don't want to see
Speaker 2: him do it for Pittsburgh, but I don't like the
Speaker 2: Jets either. So I don't know what the horse I'm
Speaker 2: backing in this race. How does this defense stop that machine?
Speaker 3: I think you got to try to get a few takeaways.
Speaker 3: I think that's going to be a real key tonight.
Speaker 3: Can the Bengals be on the plus side in the
Speaker 3: turnover battle because Pittsburgh is four and one this year,
Speaker 3: because they're plus seven in the takeaway ratio? I mentioned
Speaker 3: they had five takeaways when they beat New England. That's
Speaker 3: what they're doing. They've been optimistic or opportunistic this year.
Speaker 3: They've been in close games, their defense gets a take
Speaker 3: away in the fourth quarter, they pull it out. That's
Speaker 3: the type of game the Bengals need to play tonight.
Speaker 3: I don't think the Bengals have a defense that's going
Speaker 3: to hold any bent buddy to a tiny yardage total.
Speaker 3: That's just not who they are right now. But they
Speaker 3: are capable of getting some takeaways. They got them in
Speaker 3: the first two games when they won. I think that's
Speaker 3: going to be a real key to the game tonight. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I bring up with the importance of our the question
Speaker 2: about our secondary, because they have the fourth fewest rushing
Speaker 2: yards per game and they don't rush, but they don't
Speaker 2: run the ball. And yeah, Aaron Rodgers is going to
Speaker 2: dink and dunk you the other side of the ball
Speaker 2: of Steelers defense. As sure as the sun rises these
Speaker 2: sets on the West end, you know, the Steelers are
Speaker 2: going to have a pretty good defense year to year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think it's better than pretty good. This year.
Speaker 3: They've gone back to being of Blitzburg. So we remember
Speaker 3: those days. Dick Leboe as the defensive coordinator and five
Speaker 3: and six guys coming after you on every passing attempt.
Speaker 3: They had gotten away from that a little bit over
Speaker 3: the last couple of years, but they're back to doing that.
Speaker 3: So far this year, they're third in the league in
Speaker 3: blitz percentage. They've got six guys that have multiple sacks,
Speaker 3: led by Nick Herbig, who technically isn't even a starter.
Speaker 3: He's got four and a half sacks. He plays a lot,
Speaker 3: but he's technically not listed as a starter. He's thirty six.
Speaker 3: He's still good. TJ. Watt is still there. He's thirty one.
Speaker 3: He's still good. The guy that I was hoping that
Speaker 3: the Bengals are going to take in the first round
Speaker 3: this year, Derek Harmon having an excellent rookie year. I'm
Speaker 3: happy the Bengals wound up with Tamar Stewart because I
Speaker 3: think he's going to be great. But I really like
Speaker 3: Derek Harmon going into the draft, and I think the
Speaker 3: Steelers added another scud to their defense.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, get out there, score some points early.
Speaker 2: Maybe an important coin toss for the Bengals, quite honestly,
Speaker 2: because if you get that first drive and get some points,
Speaker 2: you get some momentum going. That's something the Bengals have
Speaker 2: locked for the last four games for sure. So tonight
Speaker 2: Dan and Lamp with a call here on the Home
Speaker 2: of the Best Bengals covered seven hundred WLW eight fifteen,
Speaker 2: Thursday Night Football. Let's get some who Let's get some
Speaker 2: Hooday magic. Get out the schneid here. Four game we
Speaker 2: cannot make it all five game losing streak. Nonetheless, Dan
Speaker 2: Horde all the best, Buddy, Thanks for checking in this morning.
Speaker 2: Have a great game, Thanks Lenny. Thursday Night Football eight
Speaker 2: to fifteen, we got the pregame show starting at three o'clock.
Speaker 2: Holy girled Banks, the boys are down there and we've
Speaker 2: got football and Cincinnati in a Thursday Night seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 3: The buying and selling of homes isn't for the timid
Speaker 3: or meek.
Speaker 6: The real estate world can be a vicious jungle, playing
Speaker 6: with dangers and pitfall boss. Thank god we've got Remax
Speaker 6: time agent Michelle Sloan, the fearless Real Tour of Sloan,
Speaker 6: sellshomes dot Com, and the Queen of the real estate Chungle.
Speaker 6: It's real estate Time, which Michelle Sloane on seven hundred WLWI.
Speaker 2: All right, my wife is in on this beautiful Thursday
Speaker 2: morning talking. What are we talking about? Talking about real estates,
Speaker 2: talking about the fact that I've decided I'm a pretty
Speaker 2: damn good husband. Here's me limping around on crutches and
Speaker 2: I had the knee scooter for hopefully another week. Knock wood.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know what, I can get buy in
Speaker 2: crutches because I don't want my beautiful wife to have
Speaker 2: to get up early in the morning and drive me
Speaker 2: to work like you have been for the past two weeks.
Speaker 2: That poor woman has sacrificed so much with me being
Speaker 2: on the d L, So thank you for that.
Speaker 7: You're welcome. I'm not sure is that. No, that was
Speaker 7: the most backhanded compliment ever.
Speaker 2: No, I would say. Somebody said, well, what happened to
Speaker 2: your scooter? I said, yeah, my wife's been getting for
Speaker 2: the last two weeks, and it's like, I wouldn't want
Speaker 2: to do that. So I thought, you know, I can
Speaker 2: get around on crutches if the doctors that I can,
Speaker 2: you can drive if you don't have the medicine. And
Speaker 2: I thought, you know, for the next week or soever
Speaker 2: long it takes, I can hobble around. It and yeah,
Speaker 2: that's uncomfortable, but that's fine. So thanks for driving me
Speaker 2: for the last two weeks.
Speaker 3: Oh you're welcome, dear. You know it's you.
Speaker 7: You'll be carting me around soon.
Speaker 1: Isn't that?
Speaker 2: The thing is, like, you know, as you get older,
Speaker 2: it's all the stuff that you did when you were
Speaker 2: younger that bill comes due, or maybe what you didn't
Speaker 2: do when you were younger you should have done. But
Speaker 2: you know, hey, play sports, exercise, try to be relatively fit,
Speaker 2: which I don't think you're the one of us fit
Speaker 2: in that category. But and now all the osteo stuff
Speaker 2: comes home and go, oh, you got to get this
Speaker 2: fix and that fix, because why well do you exercise
Speaker 2: like well, you told me I was doing that to
Speaker 2: get a better quality of life. Yeah that's not true.
Speaker 2: What a bunch of crap. Everything exists to sell us something.
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do. Let's talk about real
Speaker 2: estate related stuff. I know the tariffs are hitting home.
Speaker 2: You want to talk about that this morning?
Speaker 7: Yeah, let's start with that, because I mean there's a
Speaker 7: lot going on, or there's a little going on in
Speaker 7: the real estate world, depending on what you are, what
Speaker 7: what where you are. I guess but there were new
Speaker 7: tariffs this week that took effect so on imported lumber
Speaker 7: and wooden fixtures took effect on Tuesday, which includes a
Speaker 7: ten percent tariff on oll timber and lumber products and
Speaker 7: a higher twenty five percent And this is this one
Speaker 7: may really hit home for a lot of people, twenty
Speaker 7: five percent on cabinets and furniture. So you know, you're
Speaker 7: seeing the increase. You're going to see the increase of
Speaker 7: pretty much everything that you need in your home is
Speaker 7: the prices are going to go up. And then January first,
Speaker 7: wooden furniture is rising to thirty percent tariffs and kitchen
Speaker 7: cabinets fifty percent. Kitchen cabinets and vanities. And people don't
Speaker 7: realize that cabinets are a really significant number, like the
Speaker 7: big number in home buildings.
Speaker 2: Cabin try is very, very expensive. It's all because there's
Speaker 2: a lot of labor involved in making a cabinet. You know,
Speaker 2: there are some kinds that you can you can save money.
Speaker 2: There's some that you can kind of assemble yourself that
Speaker 2: are actually quite good. I'll be honest with I have
Speaker 2: installed and number of rentals, but as a matter of fact,
Speaker 2: some of those types of cabinets in our laundry room
Speaker 2: at our new house, and you know they're they're fantastic.
Speaker 2: If they work, they're warranted to the whole bit. Now,
Speaker 2: when you get to the hardwoods and veneer woods and
Speaker 2: custom cabinets, that can be exorbitant because there's a lot
Speaker 2: of labor, and now you add the cost of important materials,
Speaker 2: and so that's.
Speaker 7: Right, we have the costs cabinets and countertops account for
Speaker 7: about twenty thousand dollars on average for a new build,
Speaker 7: so about five percent is wrapped up in your cabinets
Speaker 7: and countertops. That's why most people will keep their cabinets,
Speaker 7: especially in their kitchens, until they're literally falling off the hinches.
Speaker 7: You know they're going to be repainted, they're going to
Speaker 7: be you're going to just try to find anyway not
Speaker 7: to replace those cabinets, because when you get into replacing cabinets,
Speaker 7: when you're doing at home renovations, you're looking at tens
Speaker 7: of thousands of dollars, right, You're looking at ten or
Speaker 7: twenty thousand dollars for new cabinets, and you're like, oh,
Speaker 7: is there any way I can get away with the
Speaker 7: ones that I've got? And you know, like I said,
Speaker 7: we've seen some cabinets that have been around fifty years
Speaker 7: or more because people just don't want to even the
Speaker 7: cabinets in our new house, our old cabinets that were
Speaker 7: refurbished and were painted. And so the business of repainting
Speaker 7: cabinets has really increased over the years. It's become common,
Speaker 7: it's commonplace. The quality is so much better when you're
Speaker 7: repainting cabinet. People will ask me, you know, I've got this.
Speaker 7: Maybe it's maple, maybe it's a different type of the woods,
Speaker 7: but I'm tired of this wood color. You know, I
Speaker 7: don't want to the dark cherry color that's been out
Speaker 7: for a while. Can I paint my cabinet? The answer
Speaker 7: is absolutely yes, and there are some really good companies
Speaker 7: and individuals out there who will do it well. Because
Speaker 7: if you don't do it well and you don't take it,
Speaker 7: if you try to just paint on your cabinet just
Speaker 7: willy nilly like you, we're going to.
Speaker 2: But people will pay big money for hand paint and
Speaker 2: custom cabinet. So it's what's the difference. And I'd say,
Speaker 2: if you're fine with some brushstrokes in that and maybe
Speaker 2: some perfect you can definitely there's a lot of good
Speaker 2: kits in the technology in the last ten years. Agot
Speaker 2: in phenomenal relative to cabinet paint, and you know, blending
Speaker 2: those lines make it look like it's sprayed. If if
Speaker 2: that's not for you, you're not handy, don't want to
Speaker 2: do that, or maybe a little bit money, but you
Speaker 2: want to do new cabinets, you can have a professional
Speaker 2: painter come in. They'll take the cabinet doors off, take
Speaker 2: them and spray them and then probably handpaint the trim.
Speaker 2: It'll look really, really good. You can go that route
Speaker 2: much cheaper. There's companies that come and reface cabinets and
Speaker 2: put them in the ear on top of the old
Speaker 2: one and you really won't notice. There's a little bit
Speaker 2: you can tell when the doors are open. It's a
Speaker 2: little bit different. But I mean really for the cost
Speaker 2: savings is it's night and day and they can do
Speaker 2: that in a day or two. Yeah, there's all sorts
Speaker 2: of different options you can. And the other thing too
Speaker 2: is if you have old cabinets, I think you just
Speaker 2: have to look at them or I have a professional
Speaker 2: look and go all right, how good is the carcass,
Speaker 2: which is the box itself. I mean, you think about it.
Speaker 2: A cabinet is just a box that sits on the floor,
Speaker 2: it hangs on the wall, It doesn't go anywhere. The
Speaker 2: hinges may wear out, the doors may wear out, but
Speaker 2: those things are replaceable. I would say, if the bones,
Speaker 2: if the cabinet and the carcass are good, and you're
Speaker 2: looking at a cost of brand new cabinets, you may
Speaker 2: want to rethink that whole process because you want to
Speaker 2: lean more towards what we're talking about here.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: You know, if you have the money and you want
Speaker 2: to do cabinets, absolutely knock yourself out. But for sure,
Speaker 2: there's all sorts of ways to go about saving the
Speaker 2: ones you have because the older they are generally, I mean,
Speaker 2: unless they're you know, particle board or something like that,
Speaker 2: which you do see and you see, let's face, a
Speaker 2: cabinet that's fifty years now, thirty to fifty years old,
Speaker 2: you may you're probably going to have to replace that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, if you have something that's a hardwood and
Speaker 2: old wood or something like that, my god, yeah, those
Speaker 2: things will last. You know, get new doors to hardware
Speaker 2: right as a.
Speaker 7: Particle board if that was used, just like anything, if
Speaker 7: you're putting glasses, you know, out of the dishwasher that
Speaker 7: they're still a little bit wet, and you're putting them
Speaker 7: in your cabinets, that surface is going to wear a
Speaker 7: lot quicker. And you can always put different kinds of
Speaker 7: shelving materials and cover that up and get get a
Speaker 7: few more years out of it. But if you're planning
Speaker 7: to build a home anytime in the next twelve months,
Speaker 7: just expect that builders are going to be passing on
Speaker 7: the cost of tariff to you. And we're looking at
Speaker 7: anywhere between the estimates are going to be about fourteen
Speaker 7: percent higher, potentially about ten thousand dollars on the average home.
Speaker 7: You're going to see increases. So it's definitely going to
Speaker 7: cost and the whole I guess the reason why the
Speaker 7: tariff starts trying to get more and more American would
Speaker 7: putting being put back into the timber right to be
Speaker 7: put back into the system. And that's going to take
Speaker 7: some time. Like that's not something you can't take those
Speaker 7: sawmills and just crank them up.
Speaker 2: I just crank it out. Yeah, it's and you got
Speaker 2: to grow a tree. So seventy percent of the lumber
Speaker 2: we use some talking about softwood lumber, because hardwoods can
Speaker 2: be exotic and come from different countries, but soft on one,
Speaker 2: let's talk about tine right, softwood lumber, It's seventy percent
Speaker 2: of it comes from Canada, and as does supply wood.
Speaker 2: So even drywall. I was in the price of drywall,
Speaker 2: I was looking at drywall fixing something. I'm like, my god,
Speaker 2: if she had a drywall, now was what she'd apply
Speaker 2: withou she plywood used to be not long ago, same things.
Speaker 2: You know, seventy percent of the gypsum comes from Mexico,
Speaker 2: so you know, we have the duties on all this stuff.
Speaker 2: It's just driving the cost up. And then you add
Speaker 2: in steel and aluminum and plastic pipe and copper, and
Speaker 2: now appliances of course too, are are deeply affected by
Speaker 2: this as well, because we import about eighty percent of
Speaker 2: our aluminum and almost twenty percent of our steel, So
Speaker 2: all the stuff is going up. You just I'm waiting
Speaker 2: for the jobs to come at this point, Okay, we're
Speaker 2: getting We're getting killed right now when it comes to
Speaker 2: building supplies and housing and everything out everything that we buy.
Speaker 2: And I'm waiting for the jobs to be created and
Speaker 2: get these prices backing at least some sort of trade
Speaker 2: balance to go in effect, but we're not seeing.
Speaker 7: That yet well, and we did experience some supply chain
Speaker 7: issues back in twenty twenty when we had the pandemic.
Speaker 7: We're likely to see a little bit of that supply
Speaker 7: chain disruption as well because of the tariffs. So there
Speaker 7: may be some shortages in some areas, some increases. It
Speaker 7: just may take some time, so those costs are going
Speaker 7: to be handed over to consumers. You may see delays
Speaker 7: and the long term implication certainly it could take a
Speaker 7: couple of years to sort of straighten itself out, and
Speaker 7: maybe we'll be better off in the long run. Again,
Speaker 7: we'll have to wait and see. We'll have to wait
Speaker 7: and see.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it squeezed a lot of people.
Speaker 2: I think. Is that also ending the fact that we're
Speaker 2: seeing a stagnant real estate market right now.
Speaker 7: The real estate market right now is definitely trending down
Speaker 7: a little bit for sure. The average days on market
Speaker 7: in the Cincinnati area are around forty five days on market.
Speaker 7: So when you lift a home, and this is the
Speaker 7: frustration that I have because most consumers maybe don't realize,
Speaker 7: oh they you know, they keep telling me, Oh, the
Speaker 7: market's the market's greatre You're gonna sell your house in
Speaker 7: a day. Yeah, it's not going to happen in a
Speaker 7: day most likely now, And you have to put on
Speaker 7: a lot of patients. So even I had a new
Speaker 7: listing go on with one of my agents yesterday and
Speaker 7: by the end of the day she's like, uh, we
Speaker 7: don't have any showings scheduled yet. I'm like, yeah, and
Speaker 7: you may not for a few days because byers buyers
Speaker 7: are really taking their time. A lot of them have
Speaker 7: hunkered down, i think for the rest of this year
Speaker 7: and they're not going to make a change, and so
Speaker 7: there are fewer buyers out there looking they are. If
Speaker 7: you are looking, and you are a buyer, you probably
Speaker 7: have very very specific needs. You may want a ranch
Speaker 7: in a certain price range and maybe that doesn't exist
Speaker 7: or it doesn't exist, and that might that type of
Speaker 7: a property myself very very quickly. But overall, a lot
Speaker 7: of just really really nice homes are on the market
Speaker 7: right now, and they have been for forty five days
Speaker 7: or more, and sellers are getting a little nervous, and
Speaker 7: so we're seeing a lot of uncertainty in the real
Speaker 7: estate market. And with that uncertainty, you know, becomes opportunities
Speaker 7: for buyers. So I tell buyers, right now, the mortgage
Speaker 7: interest rates around six point three five or something like that,
Speaker 7: depending on your credit, so it's less than seven percent,
Speaker 7: and there are opportunities out there. Don't be afraid to
Speaker 7: look at a home that's been on the market for
Speaker 7: a long time. There's nothing wrong with it. You know
Speaker 7: it used to be in the day. Well, that house
Speaker 7: has been on the market for three weeks because there
Speaker 7: must be something wrong with it. There's nothing wrong with
Speaker 7: that house. It's perfectly great. It just may not have
Speaker 7: had the right buyer walk through. And I very much
Speaker 7: encourage people if you are a buyer and you are
Speaker 7: looking sort of broaden maybe what you're looking for and
Speaker 7: take a look at a few of the houses that
Speaker 7: have been on the market for a minute, because those
Speaker 7: sellers are going to be more willing to negotiate. And
Speaker 7: that's something that you may now you're not gonna Let's
Speaker 7: not go back to those days, because I've been in
Speaker 7: this business, as you know, for twenty years. Let's not
Speaker 7: go back to the days when we're putting in offers
Speaker 7: that are thirty thousand dollars less from less price.
Speaker 2: That's just that's not going to happen.
Speaker 7: Pits and going to make people really mad, and don't
Speaker 7: just don't.
Speaker 2: Do that, Please don't do it out there. But everyone
Speaker 2: wants a deal in a bargain. And how that happened
Speaker 2: when we sold our house. Unfortunately we you know, did
Speaker 2: it right now at the right time. I got you know,
Speaker 2: you made me think speaking of our old house, same
Speaker 2: thing as people. You know, you've also got to take
Speaker 2: a step back and go, okay, is there something wrong
Speaker 2: with this house or isn't an opportunity here?
Speaker 1: And on that.
Speaker 2: When we bought our first of the house, when we
Speaker 2: moved here and I got twenty something years ago, it
Speaker 2: was backing up to a field where they were doing
Speaker 2: site work on and it was going to be a
Speaker 2: I think light and dust basically is what they were
Speaker 2: calling this. And they had people coming through the house
Speaker 2: and no one would touch it because they're afraid this
Speaker 2: big factory was going to go in the backyard. I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: first of all, you know it's Mason, how much of
Speaker 2: a factory going to put in there? And then secondly,
Speaker 2: looking at the the guy had the architectural plans out
Speaker 2: there and you know, looking at what it was going
Speaker 2: to be and what the restrictions were, and also landscaping
Speaker 2: can kind of go a long way too. So we
Speaker 2: looked at it and said, you know what, I think
Speaker 2: this is the fact that people see bulldozers and freak out.
Speaker 2: You know, you're going to be looking through someone's back
Speaker 2: window in the suburbs, or in this case, it was
Speaker 2: likely and you know, there were restrictions in place when
Speaker 2: they could do deliveries, and we're looking at it, going, okay,
Speaker 2: this is we can do some landscaping in the backyard.
Speaker 2: And you know, it turns out it was probably one
Speaker 2: of the best investments who ever made, not only because
Speaker 2: we raised our kids there, but then we turned around
Speaker 2: and sold and the people loved it because it's like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, it's so nice in private back here. Well, yeah,
Speaker 2: because you know you saw that coming and you know
Speaker 2: we're lucky to get that opportunity. But also, I think
Speaker 2: when you're doing this, you can't you can't. Well there's
Speaker 2: a reason why. So though you know it's been on
Speaker 2: the market for two months or whatever, well why is that?
Speaker 2: You know, find out why, and then actually think about hey,
Speaker 2: can I work around this, because then you can find
Speaker 2: a bargain.
Speaker 7: Is it really going to affect the way that you
Speaker 7: live your life? And you know, we really we love
Speaker 7: the fact that we didn't have neighbors looking in our
Speaker 7: windows in the backyard. We had the privacy for the
Speaker 7: most part. But you know that that's something that you
Speaker 7: can also create once you buy a home like that
Speaker 7: and you have the understanding. Some people just they don't
Speaker 7: want to take on what they consider the risk, and
Speaker 7: there's always ways around it. Like you said, there's landscaping
Speaker 7: and the trees that you can buy that will provide
Speaker 7: screens and it won't completely If you're backed up to
Speaker 7: a road, that's not always going to be the best location.
Speaker 7: But then again maybe not, maybe it is.
Speaker 3: It's going to be good.
Speaker 2: Bottom line is you know, just take a pause and
Speaker 2: just because everyone else is doing it, just stop and
Speaker 2: think and you know, think about the problem for a
Speaker 2: minute and maybe there's an opportunity to there for anyway.
Speaker 2: My wife, Michelle Sloane Sloan sales homes dot com, openhouse
Speaker 2: show via the iHeartRadio app and podcasts of course on
Speaker 2: YouTube as well, and she's in Main Villa remax time.
Speaker 2: All right, Levey, thanks again. I gotta goat, gotta go.
Speaker 2: Willie is on the way. We are on the Terry
Speaker 2: Thigi Chief Terry Thigi career deathwatch right now, and she's
Speaker 2: going to fall on the sword for the incompetent administration
Speaker 2: of the City of Cincinnati haws crime to run ramp
Speaker 2: and then blames the chief and has to do with
Speaker 2: the stupid policies, I think, But nonetheless we'll keep an
Speaker 2: eye out for that. And of course we've got Thursday
Speaker 2: night football tonight, Bengals and Steelers tonight, and it all
Speaker 2: kicks off three o'clock, by the way, live broadcast down
Speaker 2: at the at the Gril. Get on down there with
Speaker 2: the boys. Scott Sloan Show, Home of the Best Bengals
Speaker 2: covered seven hundred W O D Cincinnati,