WEBVTT - Donna D 10/10/26 0:00:00.190 --> 0:00:03.930 We do it a little bit differently. It's all about relationships. 0:00:04.410 --> 0:00:08.000 It's been a couple weeks since I've been on air 0:00:08.020 --> 0:00:10.280 and I'm so happy to be on. I know that 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:14.000 a lot of us can feel a lot of stress 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:20.450 and can stress be a good thing? It's an odd concept, right? Well, 0:00:20.470 --> 0:00:26.470 my first guest tonight is a stress with a PhD 0:00:26.590 --> 0:00:29.680 in biology at the University of Memphis. She's an author 0:00:29.700 --> 0:00:34.519 of two books, Instinct and Springboard, Transform Stress to Work 0:00:34.580 --> 0:00:35.460 for You. Dr. 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.260 Rebecca Heiss, welcome to the show tonight. 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:40.740 Thanks so much, Donna. 0:00:40.780 --> 0:00:41.800 I'm delighted to be here. 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.309 Well, I recently was at a conference with you in 0:00:45.350 --> 0:00:49.190 Indianapolis a couple weeks ago. You were the keynote speaker, 0:00:49.229 --> 0:00:52.190 and I absolutely loved your presentation there. 0:00:52.580 --> 0:00:55.380 On being fearless. I loved it. You got, I think 0:00:55.420 --> 0:00:56.720 you got a standing ovation. 0:00:56.740 --> 0:00:58.720 Oh gosh, thank you so much. 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:00.220 Oh, I had to have you on the show. 0:01:00.340 --> 0:01:05.840 I have never heard anyone talk about stress like you do. And, uh, 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.780 you know, I mean, we, we, we all can understand 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:12.600 that we felt stress. Our body tightens up, maybe our 0:01:12.940 --> 0:01:16.000 heart races. And in some cases, difficult to breathe in 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:20.009 serious cases, maybe. It basically feels uncomfortable for many of us. 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:23.420 So what exactly is stress and why are we so 0:01:23.500 --> 0:01:24.080 afraid of it? 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.440 Well, I'll give you sort of the technical definition of stress. 0:01:29.540 --> 0:01:33.500 And really, it's any force that challenges your body. 0:01:33.900 --> 0:01:36.540 So anything that challenges you. And that could be a 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:38.360 good thing. It could be a bad thing. It might 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:41.259 be going for a run, getting exercise. 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:43.440 I mean, shoot, even like a soak in a tub 0:01:43.500 --> 0:01:46.220 or a sauna. Those are challenges to the body. The 0:01:46.270 --> 0:01:50.630 body has to respond. And those aren't necessarily good or bad, but. 0:01:50.570 --> 0:01:53.150 It does require the body to react. 0:01:53.830 --> 0:01:56.130 And, um, and I think the reason we're so afraid 0:01:56.170 --> 0:01:58.870 of it is stress, stress needs a better PR agent. 0:01:58.970 --> 0:02:01.890 You know, like I'm out here trying to tell people like, wait, 0:02:01.910 --> 0:02:02.950 stress is normal. 0:02:03.010 --> 0:02:03.650 It's natural. 0:02:03.730 --> 0:02:05.190 It's not something you need to get rid of. You're 0:02:05.230 --> 0:02:07.740 not broken. It's, um, it's actually a really good thing. 0:02:07.780 --> 0:02:09.799 We just have to think about it a little bit differently. 0:02:09.980 --> 0:02:12.400 Well, this is my point of why I wanted to 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.520 talk to you because you're in your book and you've 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:20.700 talked about this before. Um, that you can actually transmute 0:02:21.020 --> 0:02:24.970 the feeling of stress into something that maybe is excitement? 0:02:25.340 --> 0:02:26.550 Can you go into that? 0:02:26.570 --> 0:02:28.410 Yeah, sure. 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:34.040 Our bodies release pretty much the identical hormonal profile when 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.140 we are excited as when. 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:40.200 We are in fear, anxious. So our body is really 0:02:40.260 --> 0:02:42.079 having one experience. 0:02:42.460 --> 0:02:46.230 And the only difference between that excitement or that stress 0:02:46.630 --> 0:02:47.739 is the interpretation of it. 0:02:47.830 --> 0:02:51.990 So what we think about that experience. And that's what I. 0:02:51.970 --> 0:02:55.290 Think makes us so unique because I say all the time, 0:02:55.310 --> 0:02:58.790 zebras out in the wild, when they get chased by 0:02:58.830 --> 0:03:01.530 a tiger, lion, or bear, oh my, once the stressor 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:02.280 is over, it's over. 0:03:02.500 --> 0:03:05.040 They don't sit around and think about it. Whereas humans, 0:03:05.100 --> 0:03:09.620 we actually create stressors. And this is wild to me, right? 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:10.780 Like, that's just insane. 0:03:10.860 --> 0:03:13.880 Why do we stay in that heightened state? It's unnecessary. 0:03:14.020 --> 0:03:15.320 I don't understand it either. 0:03:15.340 --> 0:03:20.600 I watched an interview with Tom Holland, you know, Spider-Man 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:22.160 married to Zendaya. 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:23.040 Oh, yeah. 0:03:23.139 --> 0:03:26.620 He was talking about an acting coach said, how do 0:03:26.660 --> 0:03:28.750 you feel about, you. 0:03:28.750 --> 0:03:31.810 Know, when you get on a roller coaster? And he 0:03:31.870 --> 0:03:35.070 was like, oh, I'm excited. I'm thrilled. And how do 0:03:35.110 --> 0:03:39.230 you feel about doing an audition? Oh, I'm nervous. 0:03:39.570 --> 0:03:43.010 But can you look at it as excitement? It's the 0:03:43.090 --> 0:03:46.870 same feeling. And why don't we get taught this? 0:03:46.970 --> 0:03:48.490 I know you're doing your part. 0:03:48.550 --> 0:03:49.390 It's so hard. 0:03:49.890 --> 0:03:50.529 It's so hard. 0:03:50.550 --> 0:03:50.850 Yeah. 0:03:50.970 --> 0:03:53.350 I mean, I tell people all the time, and this 0:03:53.370 --> 0:03:56.550 sounds like terrible advice, y'all, but It truly. 0:03:56.270 --> 0:03:57.630 Like all the science will back me up. 0:03:58.330 --> 0:04:00.170 The whole like idea of faking it till you make it. 0:04:00.660 --> 0:04:04.240 I actually like the words act as if. So literally 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.600 lie to yourself. Act as if you're excited. Act as 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.500 if there's an adventure. And what ends up happening is 0:04:10.540 --> 0:04:12.500 the story will then update. right? 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.120 You don't go in, you don't lose the stress or anxiety. 0:04:15.140 --> 0:04:16.160 That doesn't go away. 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:18.870 But when you begin to act as if you're excited, 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.250 as if there's something good to happen, you. 0:04:22.110 --> 0:04:24.290 Actually start to have that feeling a little bit more 0:04:24.370 --> 0:04:27.349 each time you do it. So yeah, lie to yourself. 0:04:27.450 --> 0:04:28.840 Act as if. 0:04:29.339 --> 0:04:33.490 On stage, you walked up and you said, Because there were, what, 0:04:33.490 --> 0:04:36.150 600 women there for the most part. 0:04:36.370 --> 0:04:41.310 And you're the keynote on the last day. And you said, wow, 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:45.060 I'm nervous. And then you said, actually, I'm excited. 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:50.789 And so can we do that in any situation? Including 0:04:50.870 --> 0:04:55.830 like in relationships, you know what I mean? Like is it, 0:04:56.110 --> 0:04:57.310 because that can. 0:04:57.670 --> 0:05:00.490 Relationships can bring up a whole kind of stress. 0:05:01.589 --> 0:05:04.330 That's a whole nother ball game, but absolutely. 0:05:04.370 --> 0:05:06.589 Like I would say one of the biggest gifts that 0:05:06.610 --> 0:05:09.690 you have in your stress response, first of all, it 0:05:09.750 --> 0:05:12.110 is there to serve you, right? It's there to help 0:05:12.150 --> 0:05:14.970 you to perform, to help you negotiate and get through 0:05:15.010 --> 0:05:18.430 these difficult phases. It actually focuses you. It narrows your 0:05:18.470 --> 0:05:20.860 focus on the problem at hand. So If you're dealing 0:05:20.900 --> 0:05:25.230 with a difficult problem with your spouse or significant other, 0:05:25.690 --> 0:05:29.780 you can start with curiosity. Because curiosity actually kicks us 0:05:29.940 --> 0:05:31.159 out of that fear response. 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:33.800 You can't hold curiosity and fear at the same time. 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.740 So when we just ask a question of ourselves, of 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:39.140 our partners to say, hey, what does this feel like 0:05:39.180 --> 0:05:40.160 for you right now? 0:05:40.180 --> 0:05:42.250 Or what is it that you're holding? Or how can 0:05:42.310 --> 0:05:44.330 I help? What does this look like for you? 0:05:44.990 --> 0:05:49.130 It alleviates that immediate stressor and that immediate fear around 0:05:49.190 --> 0:05:49.710 that stress. 0:05:50.470 --> 0:05:52.250 So I would say approach with curiosity. 0:05:52.670 --> 0:05:56.390 Because I did write that down. You cannot have curiosity 0:05:56.490 --> 0:06:02.540 and fear. It cannot coexist. So instead of maybe being defensive, 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:06.840 like if you get into an argument, you feel it's coming, you. 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:08.600 Know you're going there with your partner. 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:12.560 Can you just stop and say, instead of getting defensive, 0:06:12.620 --> 0:06:18.289 instead of projecting, you can say, what just happened? 0:06:18.390 --> 0:06:20.529 What changed that energy or what? 0:06:21.550 --> 0:06:23.250 What do you, I mean, my sister and I, uh, 0:06:23.770 --> 0:06:25.850 I have a twin sister and we talk cause we 0:06:25.870 --> 0:06:27.970 went through this whole authentic power program. 0:06:28.010 --> 0:06:29.589 I begged her to go. It was a three year 0:06:29.630 --> 0:06:31.310 program with Dr. Gary Zukoff. 0:06:31.870 --> 0:06:34.710 And I, we would say, can we go inside her 0:06:34.750 --> 0:06:36.730 body and just check and tell her, tell me what 0:06:36.770 --> 0:06:41.650 you're feeling immediately. You feel compassion for someone because she'll say, 0:06:41.990 --> 0:06:44.990 my throat is hurting me. I feel closed up. My 0:06:45.070 --> 0:06:48.860 heart is stabbing me. I, My stomach is twisted. And 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.400 you know that this person is going through it and 0:06:51.420 --> 0:06:54.610 they're feeling the energy of what we would call stress 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:58.370 or anxiety because it's scary. 0:06:58.770 --> 0:06:59.530 It's fear. 0:06:59.550 --> 0:07:01.049 A hundred percent. 0:07:01.190 --> 0:07:03.690 I mean, again, we don't get stressed out over things 0:07:03.730 --> 0:07:06.990 we don't care about. So I always say that stress 0:07:07.029 --> 0:07:09.290 is a barometer for how much we care. So if 0:07:09.330 --> 0:07:13.450 you're in a difficult relationship moment, it's because you care. 0:07:13.470 --> 0:07:17.040 So one of the lines that I think has probably 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:22.120 saved multiple relationships is, what is the most generous interpretation 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:22.640 of the data? 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:24.980 What's the most generous interpretation of the data? 0:07:25.020 --> 0:07:27.880 So you see your partner, you know, lashing out. 0:07:27.900 --> 0:07:32.060 And, you know, saying mean things. It's like, okay, we'll pause. 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:34.930 What's the most generous interpretation of this? The most generous 0:07:35.130 --> 0:07:37.650 is that she. 0:07:36.750 --> 0:07:40.130 Or he is in a moment of fear because they're 0:07:40.170 --> 0:07:41.930 concerned about losing you, right? 0:07:42.050 --> 0:07:44.990 And just sit in that for a second. Not their words, 0:07:45.090 --> 0:07:50.070 not their actions, but just sit in that before you respond. So, yeah, 0:07:50.190 --> 0:07:51.670 what's the most generous interpretation of this? 0:07:51.690 --> 0:07:52.190 I love that. 0:07:52.270 --> 0:07:54.470 It's like give them the benefit of the doubt that 0:07:54.490 --> 0:07:57.610 they're not trying to hurt you. They're not trying to... 0:07:58.030 --> 0:08:00.880 And I love the analogy about the tiger and inviting 0:08:00.940 --> 0:08:03.540 the tiger in for tea. Instead of getting ripped to 0:08:03.570 --> 0:08:07.920 pieces by the tiger, right? Because the tiger is basically 0:08:08.140 --> 0:08:11.460 an analogy for stress. Instead of getting ripped up and 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:15.120 eaten by the tiger, you invite the tiger in for tea. 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.520 You welcome it. Can you go into that a little 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:18.300 bit further? Absolutely. 0:08:18.500 --> 0:08:19.460 Yeah, yeah. 0:08:19.540 --> 0:08:22.930 We try so hard to dissipate, to get rid of that, 0:08:22.970 --> 0:08:25.590 to try and calm down, which incidentally is the worst 0:08:25.610 --> 0:08:26.710 thing that you can say to a partner. 0:08:26.730 --> 0:08:30.180 Hey, you seem really stressed. Why don't you calm down? 0:08:30.900 --> 0:08:31.740 It's terrible. It's mean. 0:08:31.860 --> 0:08:35.960 It's mean and it's... It's physiologically impossible. So rather than 0:08:36.020 --> 0:08:38.640 trying to suffocate the tiger, to get rid of it, 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.920 I ask you to invite the stress in, to feel 0:08:41.950 --> 0:08:44.890 your heart pounding, to feel the sweat and your mouth 0:08:44.929 --> 0:08:45.350 drying up. 0:08:45.330 --> 0:08:47.949 And go, oh, good, good. My stress is here to 0:08:48.010 --> 0:08:51.430 help me. It is not a bug. It's a feature. 0:08:51.490 --> 0:08:52.929 It is here to help us perform. 0:08:53.309 --> 0:08:56.689 So inviting that tiger in rather than fighting that will 0:08:56.770 --> 0:08:59.010 actually help you channel that energy. 0:08:58.750 --> 0:09:01.569 And use it towards being productive and creative in the moment. 0:09:02.250 --> 0:09:05.830 How do we remember that while we're in that place? 0:09:05.850 --> 0:09:10.910 Like step one, we have to have awareness of it. 0:09:10.950 --> 0:09:11.730 That's it. 0:09:11.770 --> 0:09:14.550 And I think step one is really going back to 0:09:14.570 --> 0:09:18.199 your bodily awareness, right? It's recognizing when the stress response 0:09:18.250 --> 0:09:20.120 is hitting. And I think this is where the tiger 0:09:20.220 --> 0:09:23.479 is such a playful and fun concept because it is silly. 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:26.160 Like our body is responding to as if there was 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.100 a predator chasing us down. And so it's this funny 0:09:29.179 --> 0:09:30.750 little thing that gets you out of your head in 0:09:30.770 --> 0:09:32.050 a moment and go, oh, you know what? 0:09:32.070 --> 0:09:34.010 This isn't a tiger. It's just an email. 0:09:34.350 --> 0:09:35.730 Or it's just. 0:09:35.590 --> 0:09:36.780 Linda from accounting. 0:09:36.820 --> 0:09:38.140 She's not going to kill and eat me in the 0:09:38.179 --> 0:09:43.260 next three minutes. And so I would say anytime you 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:45.740 can recognize that you're starting to go down that rabbit 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.230 hole of stress, just ask yourself, is it a tiger? 0:09:48.250 --> 0:09:50.510 Is this something that's going to kill and eat me 0:09:50.530 --> 0:09:51.370 in the next three minutes? 0:09:51.490 --> 0:09:54.290 And if it's not, allow yourself the grace to get 0:09:54.350 --> 0:09:57.929 curious and explore other potential options for that energy. 0:09:58.370 --> 0:09:59.530 I think that is so. 0:10:00.179 --> 0:10:03.880 so important too, because you can really just flip your 0:10:03.980 --> 0:10:08.830 perception because perception is reality. And if you perceive that 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.370 this thing that you feel is going to kill you, 0:10:11.980 --> 0:10:15.900 instead wants to have some tea with sugar and like 0:10:15.940 --> 0:10:19.260 maybe a crumpet, maybe add a little bagel in there 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:23.380 and that you can have fun with the tiger. One 0:10:23.420 --> 0:10:25.750 of the things that I took from, and I've talked 0:10:25.780 --> 0:10:31.470 about your presentation probably 20 times because I think I 0:10:31.570 --> 0:10:35.010 loved it. And I literally said, you know, when you're, 0:10:35.540 --> 0:10:39.190 Anything that you do in life, this is what hit 0:10:39.250 --> 0:10:42.890 me hard from your speech. Anything that you do in 0:10:42.950 --> 0:10:46.670 life that takes courage, anything that you are proud of, 0:10:47.050 --> 0:10:50.100 you said close your eyes, and we all closed our eyes, 0:10:51.900 --> 0:10:56.179 and remember that there's going to be a stressful situation involved. 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:59.340 It's going to be stressful if you said you care 0:10:59.380 --> 0:10:59.710 about it. 0:10:59.740 --> 0:11:00.680 There's going to be stress. 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:04.880 Anytime you do something huge in life, And you ended 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:07.790 the conference by saying, I hope you have them, all 0:11:07.809 --> 0:11:08.069 of you. 0:11:08.150 --> 0:11:09.830 And I mean it from the bottom of my heart. 0:11:10.210 --> 0:11:13.470 I hope you have the most stressful lives. I loved 0:11:13.590 --> 0:11:14.690 it so much. 0:11:15.860 --> 0:11:16.400 Yeah. 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.220 It means you're going for stuff in life. 0:11:20.470 --> 0:11:20.810 That's it. 0:11:21.050 --> 0:11:21.470 That's it. 0:11:21.610 --> 0:11:24.850 I mean, look, when I asked the question, and this 0:11:24.929 --> 0:11:27.809 is research that we did in 2013, looking at what 0:11:27.830 --> 0:11:30.850 makes for a meaningful and purposeful life. And it really 0:11:30.890 --> 0:11:32.120 surprised us, right? 0:11:32.500 --> 0:11:36.280 The number one correlate was stress, past stressful events, current 0:11:36.300 --> 0:11:37.540 state of stress, even future. 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:38.140 Worry and anxiety. 0:11:38.460 --> 0:11:40.980 And so in telling that audience and telling your audience 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:45.640 tonight to just think of your proudest moment, your biggest accomplishment, 0:11:46.210 --> 0:11:47.610 And then go back in time to when you were 0:11:47.630 --> 0:11:50.250 in the middle of that. I guarantee you that your 0:11:50.270 --> 0:11:51.170 stress level. 0:11:50.970 --> 0:11:52.870 Was really high. 0:11:53.250 --> 0:11:57.460 And so the reality is, just like Olympic athletes, we're 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:00.980 breaking our best records when our pressure and our stress 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:04.560 is at its peak. And so rather than trying to 0:12:04.700 --> 0:12:07.400 constantly fight it and get rid of it, let's utilize 0:12:07.460 --> 0:12:10.930 that stress as a competitive advantage and really drive home 0:12:10.990 --> 0:12:13.770 that it does add meaning and purpose to our lives. 0:12:14.900 --> 0:12:18.860 You know, you remind me a little bit of Brene Brown, 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:22.420 who did all of her research in shame and that 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:23.020 kind of stuff. 0:12:23.059 --> 0:12:25.450 I'll take that. I'll take that. Brene, are you listening? 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:26.450 Are you listening, Brene? 0:12:26.490 --> 0:12:28.850 It's a huge compliment. Let's be buddies. 0:12:28.929 --> 0:12:29.890 I can't take that all day. 0:12:30.170 --> 0:12:33.849 What made you choose this subject to get so deep 0:12:34.150 --> 0:12:39.840 into understanding stress? Because of what maybe you just answered this. 0:12:39.770 --> 0:12:43.480 For me, because you said it's the thing that makes 0:12:43.580 --> 0:12:43.960 us all. 0:12:44.660 --> 0:12:46.640 you know, life meaningful is that you're going to have 0:12:46.660 --> 0:12:48.940 stress if you go outside your comfort zone. 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.180 Oh, Donna, that's a very generous thing for you to 0:12:53.260 --> 0:12:55.990 offer that I selected this. This really selected me. I mean, 0:12:56.010 --> 0:13:00.550 I'll be honest, I was a really anxious, high achieving kid. 0:13:00.670 --> 0:13:03.449 I needed this research. I needed this for myself. And 0:13:04.070 --> 0:13:09.080 when I started studying stress, I realized that it applies 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.420 beyond the lab. And so I really wanted to take 0:13:11.460 --> 0:13:12.400 all of this research out of. 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.860 The lab and offer it to people to solve practical 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.000 problems because I knew what a major difference. 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:18.720 It made in my own life. 0:13:19.179 --> 0:13:22.699 In my personal life, I went through a pretty disastrous year. 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.059 And I'll just say it. I quit my job, sold 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:28.540 my house and divorced my husband in a year. It 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:31.679 was a pretty like, actually in a month, I shouldn't 0:13:31.700 --> 0:13:33.600 even say in a year, in a month, it was 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:35.900 a pretty like grenade throwing moment. 0:13:36.510 --> 0:13:38.700 And I realized that I really. 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:42.100 Utilized this research and thought, well, gosh, why am I 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:43.040 keeping this to myself? 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:44.360 This is powerful stuff. 0:13:44.380 --> 0:13:46.720 So I'm honored now that I get to share it 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.080 and hopefully help other people embrace stress. 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:51.780 Well, and I do think that you are changing lives. 0:13:52.140 --> 0:13:54.220 What would you say, at least mine, and then I 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:55.559 talk about everything. 0:13:55.660 --> 0:13:56.500 Oh, thank you. 0:13:56.540 --> 0:13:58.800 Gosh, I feel so honored. That's really a gift. 0:13:59.420 --> 0:14:03.199 I am absolutely not blowing smoke either. This was a 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:05.500 moment where I said, I have to have you on 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.250 the show. What would you say to somebody? Let's just 0:14:08.290 --> 0:14:14.120 say somebody right now is contemplating leaving, leaving their job 0:14:14.179 --> 0:14:18.510 because they're not respected or they, you know, they they, 0:14:18.770 --> 0:14:22.850 you know, don't feel fulfilled. But the challenge or the 0:14:22.930 --> 0:14:26.460 fear is they have to pay bills. They need health insurance, 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.610 you know. What would you, because you just went through it. 0:14:30.170 --> 0:14:34.310 I mean, is it a place where you get courage 0:14:34.510 --> 0:14:38.290 and then you're rewarded from it? I mean, how would 0:14:38.310 --> 0:14:41.550 you support somebody in that situation? 0:14:41.580 --> 0:14:42.600 This is so scary. 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:43.800 This is so scary. 0:14:43.900 --> 0:14:47.320 I would say, you know, the cost of action is always, 0:14:47.340 --> 0:14:49.880 I think, a little bit more obvious than the cost 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.580 of inaction. So if you're looking and you're going, okay, if. 0:14:53.580 --> 0:14:56.110 I quit my job, then this, this, this, and this. 0:14:56.250 --> 0:14:58.330 It's easy to measure those. I might screw up. I 0:14:58.390 --> 0:15:00.390 might not make enough money. I might this, I might that. 0:15:01.190 --> 0:15:04.930 We often fail to measure the cost of inaction. What 0:15:04.970 --> 0:15:05.710 if nothing changes? 0:15:05.770 --> 0:15:07.430 What if a year from now, five years from now, 0:15:07.430 --> 0:15:09.840 10 years from now, you're still exactly where you are 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:13.460 and you're still not being respected and you're still having 0:15:13.500 --> 0:15:16.500 these horrible experiences and cultural mismatches with your work? 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:17.640 I think. 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:26.270 Very frequently, we underestimate that cost and regret spester because 0:15:26.290 --> 0:15:27.230 we never collect. 0:15:26.950 --> 0:15:27.390 Data on them. 0:15:27.570 --> 0:15:28.930 We're always wondering, what if? 0:15:28.990 --> 0:15:30.510 What if I had quit my job? What if I 0:15:30.550 --> 0:15:31.190 had done that? 0:15:31.670 --> 0:15:34.330 So, you know, I'm never going to tell anybody it's 0:15:34.370 --> 0:15:36.530 going to work out, right? I don't want to be 0:15:36.650 --> 0:15:39.250 the voice who's like in the background going, do it. 0:15:39.590 --> 0:15:40.670 Do it, it'll be fine. 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.200 But because you can't, you don't know. 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:44.360 You just never know. 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.140 But I will say those voices of fear are often 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:48.120 louder than they need to be. 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:49.500 Because your brain. 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:54.990 Will always prioritize what feels safe. And it's not necessarily 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:59.650 the recipe for true safety and true fulfillment. 0:16:00.690 --> 0:16:04.070 And I have to say, I love, we don't often 0:16:04.110 --> 0:16:10.160 look at the outcome. inaction of something what can what 0:16:10.220 --> 0:16:13.200 will our life you're not already you're already if there's 0:16:13.260 --> 0:16:15.520 a nudge for you to have to leave your job 0:16:15.610 --> 0:16:18.930 because you don't feel respected for a number of reasons 0:16:19.090 --> 0:16:22.890 and you say oh yeah uh but what i'm afraid 0:16:22.950 --> 0:16:24.890 so i'm not gonna do it but what if i'm 0:16:24.970 --> 0:16:27.130 still here five years from now and i'm never uh 0:16:27.590 --> 0:16:31.620 i'm never gonna be fulfilled and i've missed my window too. 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:37.120 I mean, inaction is a huge thing. And I think 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.220 that's really good to know. So let's sum up this 0:16:40.870 --> 0:16:42.330 amazing conversation. 0:16:42.380 --> 0:16:46.530 By the way, I can talk to you forever. We're 0:16:46.550 --> 0:16:50.190 talking to Dr. Rebecca Heiss. She is a stress physiologist. 0:16:50.950 --> 0:16:52.890 She is the doctor of stress. 0:16:53.430 --> 0:16:58.270 And she's gotten into this because basically nobody else talks 0:16:58.330 --> 0:17:02.080 about it. At least I've never heard anybody talk about 0:17:02.140 --> 0:17:04.359 it in the way that you do in terms of 0:17:04.740 --> 0:17:07.400 hey you know what stress is actually a good thing 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:09.139 if we choose to look at. 0:17:09.140 --> 0:17:12.240 That way and if summing this up. 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.900 Rebecca summing this up and saying if we can be 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:19.500 curious and I think many of us don't even we 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:25.050 underestimate how amazing curiosity is like you can look at 0:17:25.109 --> 0:17:28.350 kids and see how curious they are they can play 0:17:28.390 --> 0:17:33.190 with a you know square peg for two hours If 0:17:33.970 --> 0:17:37.240 we can continue to look at or really sharpen the 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:42.200 tool of curiosity instead of feeling fear all the time, 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.619 it can really help support us in terms of embracing 0:17:46.700 --> 0:17:48.000 stress in our lives. 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:53.160 Yeah, and honestly, the fear doesn't go away. The anxiety, 0:17:53.180 --> 0:17:55.240 the stress, the fear, they're never going away. 0:17:55.380 --> 0:17:59.899 It's not that you get to be courageous and you 0:18:00.100 --> 0:18:02.700 don't have fear. It's that you are courageous in spite 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:04.609 of the fact that you're terrified all the time. 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:06.460 So those things are one and the same. I think 0:18:07.350 --> 0:18:08.310 they have to be held together. 0:18:08.390 --> 0:18:10.310 And I do want to say, Donna, I got to 0:18:10.330 --> 0:18:12.490 shout out. I wish I was the only one talking 0:18:12.510 --> 0:18:13.109 about this, but I. 0:18:13.070 --> 0:18:16.150 Have incredible colleagues out there, Dr. Aaliyah Crum and Robert Sapolsky. 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.080 Have both done incredible work in this area, and I'm 0:18:19.380 --> 0:18:20.580 eternally grateful for them as well. 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:21.100 I love it. 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:22.960 Thank you for the credit, Beth. I'll take it. 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:25.920 I absolutely love it, and giving credit where credit is due. 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:26.260 Dr. 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.760 Rebecca Heiss, stress physiologist, so great to have you on 0:18:29.780 --> 0:18:32.659 the show. I do think you are changing lives with 0:18:32.700 --> 0:18:37.720 this perspective, and I really feel like just keep doing 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:41.040 what you're doing, and I would love to have you 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.220 on the show again. If somebody wants to get a 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:44.920 hold of you, where should they go? 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:48.800 Absolutely. It's RebeccaHeist.com. 0:18:48.859 --> 0:18:51.640 It's probably the easiest place to reach out to me. 0:18:51.680 --> 0:18:54.400 You can find my email. You can put a contact 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:56.850 in and I will get back to you. Donna, this 0:18:56.869 --> 0:18:58.470 has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much for 0:18:58.490 --> 0:18:59.370 having me on your show. 0:18:59.530 --> 0:19:03.770 And her name is H-E-I-S-S, RebeccaHeist.com. That is a great 0:19:03.810 --> 0:19:05.450 way to find you. Thank you so much. 0:19:05.490 --> 0:19:07.550