1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Cooston's new radio. 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 2: If I ask you what's the best country in the world, 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 2: most of you will say America, the United States of America. 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 2: But then if I ask you, are you happy with 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: how things are? Most of you will say no. Most 6 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 2: of you on the right will say no. Most on 7 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 2: the left will say no. Most in the center will 8 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 2: say no. Most will say no. So wait, we're the 9 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: greatest country, but everybody's unhappy. How does that work? Why 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,959 Speaker 2: are we unhappy? How could we get happier other countries? 11 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 2: You ask them, people in their countries say, yeah, we're happy. 12 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: It'd be great to maybe chat with them and find 13 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 2: out how they do it. What is the difference? What 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 2: are the differences in the culture in areas like education. 15 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 2: First of all, maybe it's important to decide what areas 16 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 2: are different that makes them happier. Education, healthcare, general value system, 17 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 2: musical taste, attitude towards greed, attitude towards money, attitudes towards 18 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: money versus time as having value. And for the longest time, 19 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 2: I've looked for someone, I've searched all over for someone 20 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: that has deeply insinuated themselves into the culture here in 21 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 2: the United States and a culture where people will tell 22 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 2: you they're happy. And finally, producer Karen has found such 23 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 2: a person, and that person's name is Chad eric Bergman. 24 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: He's the director of the Center for Scandinavian Studies at 25 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 2: North Park University, Chicago, And so we're very pleased to 26 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 2: welcome Chad. 27 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 3: How do you do, Chad, Ah, I'm doing great, and 28 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 3: thanks for having me on the show. I was this 29 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 3: is a great topic and I'm happy to be here. 30 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 2: Of course, by the way, you can listen if you 31 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: don't have a radio. We do probably get to Chicago 32 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: on the radio, I think, But if you don't have 33 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 2: a radio, you can always listen on the iHeartRadio app 34 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 2: anywhere in the world and you can call in. I'm 35 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 2: actually working on getting somebody from China to call check 36 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 2: out and have them talk about that culture. But that's 37 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: another time. So thank you for being with us. Tell 38 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: me about you and how and how and in what 39 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 2: ways you are insinuated in both American culture and Scandinavian culture, 40 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: in specifically Swedish culture. 41 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So I grew up in Minnesota and both 42 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 3: sets up. My grandparents emigrated from Sweden, and so I 43 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 3: still have cousins and family in Sweden, but also pretty 44 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 3: rooted in the Midwest. And so kind of what I 45 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 3: sometimes say, I have a foot in both canoes, and 46 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 3: sometimes they paddle in the same direction. Sometimes they don't. 47 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 2: So you spend a lot of time in Sweden. You 48 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,959 Speaker 2: know about how the government government works, You know about 49 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 2: how the peoples, you know how they think, what their 50 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: how their value systems operate, and things of that nature. 51 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I do ye, all right. 52 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 2: So at the as I mentioned at the top, you've 53 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 2: go out and talk to pretty much anybody in the 54 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: United States and they'll both they'll say both, yes, we're 55 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 2: the greatest country in the world. And they will then 56 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 2: follow that up with now, no, no, everything's terrible. Now 57 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: on both sides. The economy is terrible, uh, on and 58 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 2: on and on the other political party is terrible, the 59 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: people people are terrible online, and and I'm going to 60 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: find out how Sweden got so happy basically, and and 61 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: and break it down down in terms of these uh 62 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: these areas that I told you, like work ethic, we 63 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: how much how important working forty eight hours a week is, 64 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: career choices, respect for authority, respect for the police, respect 65 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: for rules, eating habits, uh, things of that list. I 66 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 2: guess I'll start with education. Yeah, can you tell us 67 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 2: the differences in education, because that must have some bearing 68 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: on it. 69 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 4: It does. 70 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 3: Education is incredibly important to to Sweden, and it's it 71 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 3: is it starts at an early age, but it's not it 72 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 3: is not driven by test scores. It's not driven by 73 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 3: what you know, what your what your kid is going 74 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 3: to get. It's it's it's by experiential and also really 75 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 3: connected to outdoors. So kids early on spend about half 76 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 3: the day outdoors in all senses of weather. But also 77 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 3: then come in and the that that the teaching and 78 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 3: education is really based on teamwork and a lot of 79 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 3: togetherness in that, and that continues on through through high 80 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 3: school and through that that next level and then there. 81 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 3: You used to be this myth that university was free 82 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 3: in in the Nordic countries, and if not necessarily so, 83 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:41,600 Speaker 3: but it is highly subsidized so that you can get 84 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 3: to go to university or similar like a college and 85 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 3: not leave with one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in debt. 86 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 3: And so there's this idea that we educated ourselves and 87 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 3: we're going to pay forward to the next generation and 88 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,799 Speaker 3: it's just built into like the fabric of the culture. 89 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 4: Now. 90 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've always always thought that the best way to 91 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 2: even the playing field economically, financially and opportunity wise for 92 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 2: everyone in a country is to even out the education system. 93 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 2: And once you do that, then you don't have to 94 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,359 Speaker 2: do these stop gap types of things post education for 95 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 2: adulthood that are so dividing. If you can, if you 96 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: can educate everybody and get everybody to an even starting point, 97 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 2: then you've kind of done your job and you don't 98 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 2: have to back into it like we do. And it 99 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: causes a lot of problems. You say, they are educated outside, 100 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 2: what what do they do? What do they do outside? 101 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: They do they do their math out in the snow, 102 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: math out in the snow or. 103 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 3: No, it's it's no, they it's physical education. And being 104 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 3: outdoors is so part and parcel of the kind of 105 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 3: the identity of like the Nordic countries, and that the 106 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 3: idea that so much of our health and like being 107 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 3: at our sharpest is developed when we are it's like 108 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 3: one with nature. And so many of the grade schools 109 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 3: have these huge playgrounds that are all integrated and and 110 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 3: there's a sense of work, a sense of play in that. 111 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 3: And often you know, my kids here in Chicago, they 112 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 3: would get thirty minutes of recess a day and you know, 113 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 3: and you ask them when they came home, what was 114 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 3: your favorite part of school today? Recessing? So their favorite 115 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 3: part was thirty minutes. And recess is. 116 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 2: Just a recess from education, right, These kids are getting 117 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 2: educated outdoors. They're not just having recess for half a day. 118 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 4: In Sweden, yeah, so exploration, so you know, they go 119 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 4: out and say, okay, today is about exploring the different 120 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 4: ways that sounds are heard. 121 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 3: And then so then they go outside all these sounds, 122 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 3: they come back, they report and it's it's it's just 123 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 3: like it ignites that curiosity. 124 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 2: So they can do a report on how sound travels 125 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 2: and things like. 126 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 3: That, right, yeah, exactly. And it's just there's just such 127 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 3: a connection to the outdoors. 128 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 2: There's a connection to the outdoors. They must not have 129 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 2: to fight like we do to protect the environment. It 130 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: must be a national, a cultural thing to do that. 131 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 2: It must not be such a strugglement when here we 132 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: have to fight tooth and nail. Do not have everything 133 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 2: developed and drilled in et cetera. 134 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's you know, I would say that that is true. 135 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 3: But also it took greta tourin book to go on 136 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 3: school strike to really bring it to the forefront of 137 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 3: everybody in Sweden and uh and so it is something 138 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 3: that is really important and kind of that Swedish natural 139 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 3: culture to be now involved in, you know, what's outside 140 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 3: the landscape the planet absolutely. 141 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: Later later on and one of the one of the 142 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 2: biggest things that I'm curious about is the attitude towards 143 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 2: the rules and so be thinking about that. We're going 144 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 2: to get that. So in the United States, people will 145 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 2: get away with whatever they can get away within in 146 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 2: my town now there is very little in Boston, there's 147 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: very little traffic enforcement and people take advantage of it. 148 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 2: Where I know in Scandinavian countries they obey the rules 149 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 2: even when the eyes of the law are not watching. 150 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 2: We'll get into that. I want to find out about 151 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 2: healthcare system. We hear all kinds of rumors both ways 152 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: about healthcare, different systems and how how they are good 153 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 2: or bad. And I want to find from you on 154 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 2: healthcare in a Scandinavian country where they say they're happy. 155 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: Next on w b Z, You're on Night Side with 156 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio. 157 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: We continue with Chad eric Bergman, who is a person 158 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 2: who's who has knows a lot about a lot about Sweden, 159 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 2: director of the Center for Scandinavian Studies at North Park University, 160 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 2: so you know you're definitely an expert on this. We've 161 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 2: talked about education and how it's different a little bit. 162 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 2: Once again, the goal here is for all of us 163 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 2: to try to maybe get a handle on it. What 164 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 2: makes you guys over there, those folks so happy because 165 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 2: where everyone in the United States will complain. Now we'll 166 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 2: go to healthcare. How does it? How does it work? 167 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 2: How's it different? 168 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: Yeah? 169 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 4: It is. 170 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 3: It is a state run healthcare and in kind of 171 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 3: like the the like what US News and World Report, 172 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 3: or someone says that's Sweden's number one in Canada's number 173 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: two in it And when you ask, my cousins will 174 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 3: complain about it. And then some of them have what 175 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 3: are called supplemental insurance, or there is also privatized doctors 176 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 3: in the system. But the stories that I can tell, 177 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 3: I took a group of students two years ago and 178 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 3: when we landed, one of the students turned to me 179 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 3: she's going through her bag and she said, I don't 180 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 3: have my medicine, and so what does that mean. It's like, well, 181 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 3: it's a pill that I take that costs about two 182 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 3: hundred dollars for each pill, and I need it to live. 183 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 3: And I, as the leader of the group, went well, okay, 184 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 3: here's a problem to solve. And so I reached out 185 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 3: to a friend of mine in the town of Young Chipping. 186 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 3: We got an appointment with the doctor and we got 187 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 3: a script and this one hundred, two hundred dollars pill 188 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 3: a day for the three weeks we're there. The the 189 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 3: the prescription price for that was fifty dollars for the 190 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 3: three weeks for those pills, and then the. 191 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 2: You know, like thousands and. 192 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 3: Thousands, five thousands, yep, and uh. And the visit uh 193 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 3: was I think thirty five dollars. And so here it 194 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 3: just showed that there is a system that works really well. 195 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 3: And some you know, sometimes we here on in the US, 196 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 3: we have this idea that we got to have it 197 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 3: now and uh. And so all of these immediate centers 198 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 3: that we have, which does help, but Swedes have the 199 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 3: just kind of a sometimes a wait and see, maybe 200 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 3: if I just go out and take a walk, or 201 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 3: maybe if I just and then if it will make 202 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 3: an appointment and then they'll go in. 203 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 2: But if they want to, that's important, an important distinction. 204 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 2: Right here we feel like, oh geez I, I have 205 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 2: a sniffle. I need to go to the doctor right now. 206 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 2: But there they'll wait and see a little bit. But 207 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 2: what about the complaint that you're here like I waited 208 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 2: a long time for my operation? Is that more likely 209 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 2: to happen in Sweden? 210 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: Yeah? 211 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 3: So when when my my my cousin was it Now 212 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 3: he's a retired dentist and he and his wife are dentist. 213 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 3: They decided to go into the private side of that. 214 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 3: And there is meaning that it's it's a complicated system, 215 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 3: but there is actually a two tier system. And so 216 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 3: if you want something more rapidly, then you buy the 217 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 3: supplemental insurance and then you are are seen more more rapidly. 218 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 3: There is sometimes a line for uh moreh just the 219 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 3: elective surgeries, yes, and and and that's sure, you know 220 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 3: people will complain about that. But over all, the attentiveness 221 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 3: and the equality, uh is it was amazing. 222 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 2: I want to point something out about medicine in our country. 223 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 2: And see if it's the same as in Sweden. I 224 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 2: have a real beef with the primary care positions that 225 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 2: I have, you know, run into, because no one when 226 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 2: I was overweight, none really said you need to lose weight. Instead, 227 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 2: it was they would take to give medication for various 228 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 2: things that were related to being overweight, and not just 229 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 2: for me but for everybody. Rather than concentrating on, hey, 230 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 2: you gotta lose weight, I'm going to send you to 231 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 2: this program. I'm going to make a big deal out 232 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 2: of your lifestyle. I'm going to make sure you understand 233 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 2: how to eat. This is going to be your prescription. 234 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 2: You're going to go to this class on how to eat. 235 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 2: And they call it they you know, it's this story 236 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 2: you hear all the time with Western medicine. They wait 237 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 2: for you to get sick and try to cure it 238 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 2: rather than try to prevent. And that's a problem. I 239 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 2: guess it's politically incorrect to tell a patient. I think 240 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 2: doctors are afraid to tell a patient you're overweight, which 241 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 2: is so pitiful and causes so much disease and so backwards. 242 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 2: I'm guessing it's not that way in your country, but 243 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 2: maybe it is. I don't know. 244 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, you can always find those elements, but preventative is 245 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 3: key in Sweden. If Swedes are very attentive to how 246 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 3: they eat, very attentive to that that kind of being. 247 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 3: In fact, recently I was reading that it's now common 248 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 3: that doctors will prescribe for anxiety. 249 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 4: Or or. 250 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 3: Types of uh pressure, depression, they'll prescribe going outside and 251 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 3: walking in the woods to help them. And yeah, you know, 252 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 3: a good walk sometimes clear to the head. And so yes, 253 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 3: there's a there is a there is a little bit 254 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 3: of a difference in in that. 255 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: Now, personal priorities, let's get into that goals, and that's 256 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 2: all wrapped up in values. So I'm not going to 257 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: separate out values, I guess and personal priorities. Well maybe 258 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 2: actually I will tell me about priorities life priorities. 259 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, there is a you know here in 260 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 3: the States where you just have such a drive to 261 00:16:54,120 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 3: be something or to matter, and uh, that isn't that 262 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 3: that kind of pressure doesn't seem to be in Sweden. 263 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 2: Phrase what you're getting at. I just I came up 264 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 2: with a word the other day, which is the driving. 265 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 2: And it may be for all human kinds are different 266 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 2: to varying degrees, but in the United States, to strive 267 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 2: for significance to be significant somehow seems to be a 268 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 2: driving force, whether it's TikTok uh person influencer or rock 269 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 2: star or whatever, being standing out, being special, being famous 270 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 2: is a big I guess being famous that's a form 271 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 2: of or being rich, which is a form of being significant. 272 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 2: The big, big umbrella is significance. And so it's different 273 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 2: in Sweden. 274 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a word that's called in Swedish, it's called 275 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 3: log them and spelled l A g O M and 276 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 3: if you break it down, it means around the team. 277 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 3: And Uh, it's just like concept that all suites kind 278 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 3: of hold on to that. It's it's like just enough 279 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 3: is a feast, so that all of my like all 280 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 3: of those good things that have been met, well, that's enough. 281 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 3: And and it's it is it's something that permeates all that. 282 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 3: And there's this like well hy possible story that it's 283 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 3: it comes from the Vikings that when the Viking would 284 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 3: go in and they do what they do uh in 285 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 3: a village and then uh and then they would pour 286 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 3: all the like the meaeds and something into one bowl 287 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 3: and then they would raise the ball and say hey 288 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 3: skull which means ball, and they go all the way 289 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 3: around the team the law and the first person would 290 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 3: get exactly the same amount as the last person, and 291 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 3: everyone knew about that equality. And it's that kind of 292 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 3: enough and uh uh just evenness that is such a 293 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 3: difference than this kind of drive to the goal posts here. 294 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: So that would tell me that there are fewer people 295 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 2: who once they say make a billion dollars, would would 296 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 2: keep trying to make money just to win the game. 297 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 2: Or maybe that's not true. Maybe in Sweden there are 298 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 2: just as many Warren Buffettson and Elon musk Is anywhere. 299 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 3: Else there are. There are wealthy people in in Sweden 300 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 3: and Finland and Norway. But what is kind of key 301 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 3: is that you really would never know that that person 302 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 3: is that wealthy that you just don't show it. 303 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 2: And there's a lot of mar A lagos and they're 304 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 2: not a lot of three hundred foot yachts and stuff. 305 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 3: No, No, I think the goal for everybody is to 306 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 3: have this little cottage out in the in the country 307 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 3: and then I've made it. That's that's the that's the 308 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 3: that's the goal. 309 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, other other like things people strive for. That's 310 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 2: something they don't strive for. What do people strive for? 311 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? I think people really they they strive for the 312 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 3: a good life, like a filled, fulfilled life. 313 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 2: And how do you say that? You're going to have 314 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 2: to be specific about what that is. 315 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 3: So there is this uh there is Oh yeah, it 316 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 3: is about uh do I have enough time to pursue 317 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 3: the interests that I have that are not driven by 318 00:20:54,640 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 3: money or aren't driven by uh prestige, And so time 319 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 3: becomes really the precious commodity, and so much so that uh, 320 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 3: you know, the mini companies now have dropped to a 321 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 3: four day work week and they've found that they've had 322 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 3: increased productivity. Uh. SWEDESI famously have five sometimes six weeks 323 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:27,880 Speaker 3: of vacation in the summer, and Sweden pretty much goes 324 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 3: on holiday from July and August. It's really hard to 325 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 3: find in Stockholm. In the big cities, you'll find uh 326 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 3: businesses that are still operating. But you get it out 327 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 3: and people are people are on vacation. They take that time. 328 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 3: So time time, I guess is another way to say it. 329 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 2: So time is more valuable than money here here money 330 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:50,880 Speaker 2: is obviously more valuable than time. 331 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, I would, I would lean into that. Yep. 332 00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 2: All right, Now, is there do they sacrifice this six 333 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 2: weeks vacation? Is there is there a loss in revenues 334 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 2: or is it made up sort of if you if 335 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 2: you if there were a way to compare it. Does 336 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 2: it cost them monetarily both the businesses and are they 337 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 2: poorer financially because of it? Or do they make enough 338 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 2: do the businesses? 339 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 3: You know, this is one of those things that I 340 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 3: like to point out to some people is that like 341 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 3: sometimes some people just toss out the word that they're 342 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 3: they're just socialists, you know, socialist countries, And the thing 343 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 3: is that they're not. They're social democrats countries and Sweden specifically, 344 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 3: and and capitalism is really like they get it. They 345 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 3: understand how to make money. I mean, you don't have 346 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 3: an idea or spotify if if you don't know how 347 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 3: to make make your nuts. But the thing is is 348 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 3: that that there's such an attentiveness to how to work 349 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 3: and how to do the things that that that the 350 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 3: quality of life and the quality of the business is 351 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 3: healthy instead of uh stressed and uh it's it's I 352 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 3: find that they when I when I've looked at numbers 353 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 3: that Swedish companies just thrive even when even in that 354 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 3: and it's kind of expected. It's like a cycle, so 355 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 3: like seasonal, so people kind of expect, Okay, this is 356 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 3: where it might get, but we know that it'll pick 357 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 3: up and grow even more because of the way we've 358 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 3: rested and the way we've been able to have our time. 359 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 3: I don't know if that makes sense. 360 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 2: Yes, Sweden is the number one country for affordability, safety, 361 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 2: and overall quality of life, and. 362 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 5: We're trying to. 363 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 2: Figure out why. So maybe in the United States we 364 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 2: don't just keep muddling, muddling along, complaining and unhappy. As 365 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 2: great as we are, we're muddling along, planning, unhappy, where 366 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 2: the Swedes are just all happy and I would like 367 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 2: to but we're all trying to learn how they do 368 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 2: and maybe adopt. Each of us listening now to w 369 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 2: BZ could adopt some of the values and the habits 370 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 2: that they have. We'll continue on this after this quick 371 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 2: break on. 372 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 4: W b Z. 373 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,920 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio. 374 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 2: In the United States, we're always complaining about how things 375 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,479 Speaker 2: are going badly. In Sweden, they seem happy. Why no 376 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 2: one really digs in on that until now here on WBZ. 377 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 2: I am doing that with my guest Chad eric Bergman 378 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 2: from the he's the director actually at the Center for 379 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 2: Scandinavian Studies at North Park University in Chicago. And let's 380 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,199 Speaker 2: see what should we get into next. All right, this 381 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 2: is big. I don't want to miss out. I want 382 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,399 Speaker 2: plenty of time for it. So i'm and we are 383 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 2: all in Boston and in Massachusetts and in New England 384 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 2: seeing a lack of the willingness of towns to enforce 385 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 2: the law. And so what we're seeing is Americans when 386 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 2: no one's looking, and the traffic is horrific. The consideration 387 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 2: people show each other horrible. The motor scooters blast them 388 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 2: through lights, cars block in the box and jamming up traffic. 389 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 2: So you have you can't even move light cycle after 390 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 2: light cycle. In this country, we will break the law 391 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 2: if we think we can get away with it. That 392 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 2: is a generalization. It is also true people seem to 393 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 2: not like the law, not like the rules. And I'm 394 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: I will share this one thing with you. I took 395 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 2: my final course in college was macroeconomics, but the teacher 396 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 2: didn't care about teaching economics. Really he taught a bigger 397 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 2: picture thing. And one of the things he said, he 398 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 2: asked the class and he knew how we'd all answer, 399 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 2: and he talked about which is which is a better life, 400 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 2: life with a lot of rules, et cetera that everybody 401 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 2: has to follow, or a life that are rules. And 402 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 2: everyone said, of course, well, it's better to have no rules. 403 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 2: And he said, and he explained, rules are freedom, and 404 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 2: I I as long as the rules are good rules 405 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 2: and everybody agrees with the rules they are that is 406 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 2: the case. If you have a government that you trust 407 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 2: and the legislations that you trust making rules that you 408 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 2: that are fair, then they are freedom. And what we're 409 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 2: experiencing now in say Boston traffic is the prison of 410 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 2: ignoring the rules. And so I'm curious. And the reason 411 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,360 Speaker 2: I bring this up is because I've not been to Sweden, 412 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 2: but I've been to hell Sinkia a couple of times, 413 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 2: and I noticed that at a crosswalk, even though there 414 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:31,719 Speaker 2: are no cars coming, everyone will wait for the walk signal. 415 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 2: Why because it makes the society work, which we don't 416 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 2: seem to get. Rules help your society work, as long 417 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: as they're good rules like stopping it to stop sign 418 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 2: is a good rule, it really is, Yet we choose 419 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 2: to ignore it and as a result, our society is 420 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 2: when it comes to traffic anyway is breaking. It's broken. 421 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 2: But you guys or those guys, those people are in Sweden. 422 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 2: Look yet that rules, good rules followed makes society work. 423 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 2: Can you explain? Is there a word for following the rules? 424 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 2: Is there? Where does that come from? How it comes 425 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,360 Speaker 2: from trusting the government? I believe, and yeah, and being 426 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 2: and liking the rules. 427 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 3: There is comfort in knowing what side of the road 428 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 3: you walk on, and that comfort is something that I 429 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 3: think is born out of I know when just in 430 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 3: reading Swedish and history that one hundred, one hundred and 431 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 3: fifty years ago it was as crazy and lawless kind 432 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 3: of as it was in big cities. But but what 433 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 3: happened in the forties and fifties was the sweep of government, 434 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 3: uh change that did away with the hierarchy of of 435 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 3: of nobility and created this equality and the and in 436 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 3: that set a system of bureaucracy that then people began 437 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 3: to understand and trust and saying. 438 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 5: King before the forties and fifties, no, they're still a 439 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 5: king in the. 440 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 2: Larger sense uh of the president. You must you must 441 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 2: have a boss, an executive. 442 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 3: Nobility as in the uh uh counts and marquees and people. 443 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 3: You know that the thing that kind of held this 444 00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:01,719 Speaker 3: the long standing tradition of the working class. 445 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 5: They eliminated the strata different, the class strata, and everybody 446 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 5: became kind of one. 447 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 3: And that was it was a hard work battle that happened. 448 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 3: But through the fifties and sixties they started the government 449 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 3: started to put into place more of these welfare systems 450 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 3: and this concept of cradle to grave that you're taking 451 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 3: care of from the cradle to the to the grave, 452 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:39,880 Speaker 3: and these systems. And partially because Sweden had money, because 453 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 3: they held this quote unquote neutral stance during World War 454 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 3: two and sold their iron to all sides, they were 455 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 3: at a higher footing financially to develop some of these 456 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 3: cradle to grave things that then the next generation started 457 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 3: to trust and buy into and and and and so 458 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 3: it it slowly increased the everybody's lifestyle. Everybody uh felt 459 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 3: the benefits, everybody felt that they got a good education, 460 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 3: and so it continued to grow. And so this idea 461 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 3: of being kind of a Swede, in this sense of 462 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 3: being a part of a whole kind of made sense 463 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 3: to everybody, and and so it wasn't always that way, 464 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 3: but it has kind of grown to be that way. 465 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 3: And uh, there is a trust in the government, and 466 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 3: uh that is trust the government. 467 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, there's a trust in the system. Here in 468 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 2: the United States, we hate our government, even though it 469 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 2: is a model around the world is certainly better than 470 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 2: a lot. But you'll hear people complain like crazy, they 471 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,040 Speaker 2: don't like it at all. And I guess trickle down 472 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 2: from that is they don't like the rules. I guess 473 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 2: I don't know. Do you think there's something in American DNA, 474 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 2: the revolution, the individual, the rugged individual cowboy DNA just 475 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 2: won't let us have a system like yours? 476 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, uh I will. You know, the Barnum 477 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 3: and Bailey circus kind of entertainment is really in the 478 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,640 Speaker 3: fabric of kind of the American way, and that is 479 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 3: not something that is that Swedes are taken by. 480 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 2: Would you say this is more we we it's us, 481 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 2: it's our team. They're more of a team, a bunch 482 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 2: of team players, whereas in the United States it's me. 483 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, absolutely and that. But there's a darker side 484 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 3: to that too, in that many older people live alone 485 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 3: because they're kids now now think well, the state will 486 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 3: take care of them. And so there's this whole loneliness 487 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 3: of age. And so you see that in like the 488 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 3: movies like Obie, the movie with Tom Hanks that was 489 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 3: a remake of a Swedish movie. It's like an old 490 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 3: man who just doesn't have purpose because he's lost contact. 491 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 2: So you rephrase that, you know, restate that. See if 492 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 2: I got it right, there's a problem when the state 493 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 2: takes care of you cradle to the grave because since 494 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 2: your kids don't have to take care of you, they 495 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 2: don't and the people are all alone. Yeah, and then 496 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 2: the system though, that's a problem with the kids in 497 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 2: our society. The kids don't take care of their parents 498 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 2: in many cases. I mean, they don't visit them, and 499 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 2: they don't care for them. They don't get the healthcare 500 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 2: and they don't get the family closeness. So at least 501 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 2: Swedish people are getting the health care and being taken 502 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 2: care of for their necessaries as they get older. But okay, 503 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 2: fair enough, because it's too good. I don't want to see. 504 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, well I don't know. 505 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's so that's I wanted to I wanted 506 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 3: to present two different possibilities of why people stay by 507 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 3: the rules. So that's the first, and that's kind of 508 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:31,240 Speaker 3: an historical change. One is kind of a mythic uh 509 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 3: idea that is kind of Scandinavian in itself, and it's 510 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,760 Speaker 3: this idea of what what the Swedish word is logan, 511 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 3: which means it's the law of this guy named Yenta, 512 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 3: and it came from a small town in Norway, this 513 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 3: writer looked about. And it's the idea of the tallest 514 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 3: poppy gets chopped down, or if you know, the viking 515 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 3: head that above the uh you know, the roll of 516 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 3: shield is the Viking that gets hit. So you keep 517 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 3: your head down. And one of the ways that you 518 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 3: keep your head down is you follow the rules. Because 519 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 3: if I follow the rules, nobody will notice me and 520 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 3: nobody will care about what I'm doing. And that that 521 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 3: is sometimes some of the things that Swedes who have 522 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 3: left Sweden really breathe the freedom of the United States 523 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 3: because that kind of oppressive cultural eye that's always on you, 524 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 3: it can it for some people, can be too much. 525 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 3: And so there there's a there is this kind of 526 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 3: idea of oh, if I can get. If I can 527 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 3: get to America, the land of the possibility and dreams, 528 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 3: then you know all everything will be okay. Maybe yeah, 529 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 3: then you. 530 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,920 Speaker 2: End up on the streets in New York like ratso Rizzo, 531 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,919 Speaker 2: an urban cowboy. After this, we'll have another fun few 532 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 2: minutes with our guest Chad on w b Z. 533 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,800 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Boston's news radio. 534 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,720 Speaker 2: It is w BZ, and we're talking about we're comparing 535 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:13,279 Speaker 2: a Scandinavian country, Sweden, with the United States, trying to 536 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 2: figure out why, you know, we're so gruppy here and 537 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 2: so complaining even though lots of folks want to come here. 538 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 2: Why they're so happy? By the way, what is the 539 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 2: rate of this? How to explain something? Do a lot 540 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 2: of Swedes and Scandinavians want to come to America? And 541 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 2: if they're so happy, why would they want to? 542 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 3: I think sweet love to visit America. And mostly because 543 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 3: they have been said, uh Swedish or American culture since 544 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 3: like they woke up in the hospital as a baby. Uh, 545 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 3: they know all the references, they know all of our music, 546 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 3: and so there's this like desire to come and this 547 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 3: is it. But but once they get here, then you know, 548 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 3: they'll they'll quickly start to compare things like the pizza 549 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,439 Speaker 3: homes better, uh the uh you know, the tacos back 550 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 3: home are better, you know, and then and then then 551 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 3: no they are. 552 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 2: I mean maybe it's true, but you're going to shock 553 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 2: a lot of people saying Swedish pizza is better. 554 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 3: Yeah there, well, Swedish pizza, especially kabab pizza is uh. 555 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 3: It's really really tasty. And one do you think pizza 556 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 3: pizza it's it is like there was such an immigrant 557 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 3: from uh uh culture in the nineteen fifties and sixties 558 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 3: that immigrated from like the Greece and the whole area 559 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 3: up to up to Sweden that that they brought the 560 00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 3: food and so kabob pizza is uh is the kebab 561 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,959 Speaker 3: meat on on pizza with kebob sauce and lettuce on top. 562 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 3: And it is really it's really great. It's tasty, you know, 563 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:17,320 Speaker 3: not Chicago. Yeah, so, but it's it is something sweets 564 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 3: grow up with and they they love it. Yeah yeah, 565 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 3: so they when they come to in Chicago and have 566 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,880 Speaker 3: a Chicago style deep dish, which I know is many 567 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 3: in the Boston and New York area say it's not 568 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,240 Speaker 3: not pizza. But it is such a different mind shift 569 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,439 Speaker 3: to go AsSalt shift for for Swedes, but they learned 570 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 3: to like it. 571 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 2: What's the that's what's the The roast beef? Is it 572 00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 2: Al's roast beef? That's big in Chicago? 573 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,800 Speaker 3: Oh yeah no, and Portillo's. Uh it's great. So the 574 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,840 Speaker 3: the Enna beef is really any any hot dog stand 575 00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 3: or anything that said? If it says the Enna beef, 576 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 3: you know it's a real of Chicago and really good. 577 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 2: Hey, you want to hear everybody not just Chad a 578 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:12,319 Speaker 2: weird in Chicago story. Okay, what are you gonna say? 579 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 5: No? 580 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,319 Speaker 2: All right? I had some time found a deal to 581 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,959 Speaker 2: Chicago just to go for one or two nights, maybe 582 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:25,399 Speaker 2: maybe two nights, and there was us somehow I might 583 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 2: have said, which I usually say, no matter where I 584 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 2: go in the world, Hey, does anybody know anybody? In 585 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 2: this case Chicago? It wants to hang out and have lunch, 586 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 2: just so I have somebody to talk to. And then 587 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 2: usually when they reply, it's usually through somebody through this, 588 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 2: so there's a connection somehow. And somebody replied, Oh yeah, 589 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 2: they replied, and I thought it was person a you know, 590 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,319 Speaker 2: some I knew the first name, not the last name, 591 00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 2: so it was somebody with the first name I knew, 592 00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 2: and I guess didn't look at the picture close enough. 593 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 2: So I said, oh, yeah, let's have lunch. That's great. 594 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 2: So we said a meeting place to meet up to 595 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 2: have lunch, and I got there and this was not 596 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 2: that person at all. It was somebody I had no clue. 597 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 2: It was a completely different person. So it was I 598 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 2: had lunch with an entirely unknown stranger at due to 599 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 2: the internet foul up. But it was. It was kind 600 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,560 Speaker 2: of exciting and it was fine. I wish I could 601 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 2: remember the name of the place, but I cannot. I 602 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,319 Speaker 2: have a question for you back about Sweden. Now, here's 603 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 2: the thing with Scandinavian countries. They have so many, you know, services, 604 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 2: they need to be very strict about who comes in 605 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,360 Speaker 2: and to get those services, so they have to be 606 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 2: very strict on immigration, right m hmm. 607 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 1: Yeah. 608 00:40:55,800 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 3: Different Nordic countries took different approaches, and the Sweden it 609 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:06,320 Speaker 3: took the approach that we will accept immigrants and uh, 610 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 3: and that has had both UH remarkable benefits but also 611 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:13,839 Speaker 3: financial challenges and UH. 612 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 2: The social democratic system that provides the healthcare, et cetera. 613 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 5: When this happens, it does so there there there becomes 614 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,720 Speaker 5: strain on the system and then uh and as a result, 615 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 5: that's where some of the tensions happened. 616 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 3: And then there takes it takes a big time for 617 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,400 Speaker 3: a bit of recalibration, uh to help understand the rhythm 618 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 3: and the amount and what needs to happen. 619 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:41,959 Speaker 2: And so the public. 620 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, there there is and uh and most recently, uh, 621 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 3: there was a shift I mean to say, there was 622 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 3: a shift to the right in in Sweden in terms 623 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:08,719 Speaker 3: of political Bernie Sanders is probably the most moderate or 624 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,720 Speaker 3: is a conservative into the the Sweden time Sweden political 625 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 3: especial shift to the right. Yes, there has and so 626 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:23,720 Speaker 3: there has been a little bit of uh uh stopping 627 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 3: some of the the immigration that's come in as But 628 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 3: on the on the flip side, is this idea that 629 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,880 Speaker 3: Sweden is suffering many times some of the same multicultural 630 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,360 Speaker 3: uh struggles that the US does, because there are so 631 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:46,360 Speaker 3: many different now home origins that now their kids are Swedes, 632 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 3: but their home place a home origin is somewhere else. 633 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:51,719 Speaker 5: And so. 634 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:57,920 Speaker 3: Causes miss like in many ways, how how it causes 635 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 3: a problem here is that there's a racism that is 636 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:14,239 Speaker 3: sometimes blatant and that that causes it causes stress in 637 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:14,760 Speaker 3: the system. 638 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:19,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Now here's a rumor I heard. I can't 639 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 2: remember which country, either Norway or Denmark has a rule 640 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 2: and they would hate this in the United States, that 641 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 2: they would consider this way too big brother. But on 642 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:31,839 Speaker 2: the other hand, it's it's kind of right wing because 643 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 2: it's kind of nationalists. I think that there's a list 644 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,440 Speaker 2: of names that you can name your kid. You must 645 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 2: in one of those countries, maybe yours too, I don't. 646 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:47,320 Speaker 3: Know, Oh you Iceland, Yeah. 647 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,279 Speaker 2: Okay, that there's a list that you must stick to. 648 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:57,560 Speaker 2: You can't name your kid number seven or or soda 649 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 2: or something like that. There's a list, and that's because 650 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 2: they want to keep a national identity, right. 651 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, that is. That's an ice one. That is they're 652 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,799 Speaker 3: very very much like driven by that. I I don't 653 00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 3: know what Sweden's current stance is, but I know that 654 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 3: there has been an implication process for a name. So 655 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:27,279 Speaker 3: you can't name your kid what six', seven but you 656 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,560 Speaker 3: can sit the name and it's actually quite a liberal 657 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:37,160 Speaker 3: prop you have to get. It, yeah that that. IS 658 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,920 Speaker 3: i don't know what the current stance, is BUT i 659 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 3: don't have a problem. 660 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 2: With, that, ACTUALLY i, THINK i, MEAN i don't have 661 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 2: a problem with the national identity. Being you, know let's 662 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 2: have a let's have A swedish. Name we're running. Out 663 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,000 Speaker 2: we are actually out of. Time, no, yeah it went, 664 00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,040 Speaker 2: quickly didn't. It BUT i have to meet you a 665 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,640 Speaker 2: person sometimes and having An al's roast beef or Maybe 666 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,800 Speaker 2: i'll meet you us meets you In stockholm before a 667 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,719 Speaker 2: Swash swedish. Pizza i've never been A, stockholm never been 668 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,160 Speaker 2: so thank you so much for your time for sharing 669 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,640 Speaker 2: and helping us get an. Idea what makes those darn 670 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 2: sweets so? Happy thank? You, okay take, care bye. Bye 671 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:26,120 Speaker 2: well this next, HOUR i have no, idea AND i 672 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 2: made it purposely that, way open. Lines we're gonna play 673 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,520 Speaker 2: it BY. I we're gonna play about ear anything you. 674 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,000 Speaker 2: Want you kick me off in some. Direction who knows 675 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,160 Speaker 2: how far it will. GO i do have some questions, 676 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 2: though that might kickstart, us and you'll find out what 677 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:45,600 Speaker 2: those are coming. Up uh, six, one, seven, two, five, 678 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,000 Speaker 2: four ten thirty is that? Number use it Or lose? 679 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 2: It last hour of the week here ON wbz