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Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: Lot's going on this week in Washington. I think all

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Speaker 2: of us know that the government has in a shutdown situation.

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Speaker 2: They have not updated or renewed. The fiscal year in

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Speaker 2: Washington runs out every year at September thirtieth at midnight

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Speaker 2: or October first at midnight. When September thirtieth turns into

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Speaker 2: October first. Right now is about twenty one hours and

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Speaker 2: seven or eight minutes ago, And we are going to

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Speaker 2: talk a little bit.

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Speaker 3: About the shutdown. Later on.

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Speaker 2: We will be talking about what services will be impacted,

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Speaker 2: what may be impacted in the long run, how long

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Speaker 2: we will have a guest at ten o'clock. We're not

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Speaker 2: here to talk about the shutdown this hour. We're here

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Speaker 2: to shut We're here to shut to talk about not

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Speaker 2: the shutdown, but cutbacks that the Trump administration is imposing

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Speaker 2: on medical research institutes, not just in New England but

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Speaker 2: around the country. And to talk about that is the

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Speaker 2: current chancellor. He's the longest serving chancellor in the history

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Speaker 2: of UMass chan Medical School. He was the interim chancellor

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Speaker 2: from June of two thousand and seven, around the time

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Speaker 2: I started doing this program to September twenty eight of

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Speaker 2: two thousand and eight. He was appointed chancellor in September

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Speaker 2: of two thousand and eight. He's a tenured professor of

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Speaker 2: Population and Quantitative Health Sciences in medicine. And we are

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Speaker 2: delighted to welcome doctor Michael Collins to the Nightside microphone.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Collins, welcome to Nightside.

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Speaker 4: How are you, sir, evening Dan. I'm well, thank you,

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Speaker 4: and how are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm okay, But like you, I am concerned about the

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Speaker 2: cutbacks that are going to impact medical facilities around the country.

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Speaker 2: Because this is not a partisan issue from my perspective,

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Speaker 2: it affects every American, whether you're a Republican, a Democrat, independent, libertarian, librarian, whatever.

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Speaker 2: And and it's something that that you mass.

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Speaker 3: Chan Medical School does a lot of a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of research dealing with, amongst other things, cancer, causes of cancer,

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Speaker 2: and potential cures for cancer and als Luke Gherrig's disease.

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Speaker 2: How how concerned are you? You you on the front

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Speaker 2: lines here, so from your perspective as chancellor, how much

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Speaker 2: government funding is at risk? From what you know?

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Speaker 3: And I don't.

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Speaker 2: You may not know everything yet, but at this point

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Speaker 2: has the government communicated with you When I say the government,

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Speaker 2: I've talked about the Trump administration as to what what

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Speaker 2: limitations or what cutbacks however you want to characterize those

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Speaker 2: terms might want to impose on you, were school.

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Speaker 4: Based on today's actions are based on just issues in

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Speaker 4: regar in general. Let's look at it this way. Let's

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Speaker 4: look at this way, Dan. When when the budget for

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Speaker 4: the next year for the NIH the National Institutes of

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Speaker 4: Health was brought forward by the administration, they asked for

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Speaker 4: twenty seven billion dollars a number approximating twenty seven billion.

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Speaker 3: Dollars in cut. Is that in cuts or is that

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Speaker 3: what they were looking for?

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Speaker 4: No, that's what they were looking for, But that would

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Speaker 4: represent a cut of twenty billion dollars. Now, billions of

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Speaker 4: dollars are a lot of money, and you know, those

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Speaker 4: of us hear those numbers, they're just sort of you know,

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Speaker 4: they're just you know, they're just so big. But you know,

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Speaker 4: in relation to the federal budget of multiple trillions of dollars,

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Speaker 4: there's a relatively small fraction of the of the federal budget,

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Speaker 4: but it's an enormous fraction of the budget of teaching, hospitals,

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Speaker 4: and medical schools across the country not sort of set

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Speaker 4: the tables so people understand this. The American biomedical research

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Speaker 4: enterprise that which exists in the United States is the

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Speaker 4: finest in the world. Let's fact one, it's the finest

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Speaker 4: in the world. And there has been a greater than

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Speaker 4: sixty year commitment partnership, whatever you want to call it,

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Speaker 4: between the federal government, teaching hospitals, and medical schools. When

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Speaker 4: I say a partnership, what that means is that the

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Speaker 4: federal government in partnerships, in partnership with just about every

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Speaker 4: medical school and many of the large teaching hospitals. We

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Speaker 4: recruit the faculty. The faculty apply to the National Institute's Health,

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Speaker 4: the National Science Foundation, Department of Defense, Department of Energy,

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Speaker 4: that our faculty apply for grants, and they work on

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Speaker 4: projects that are in the interest of science. And those

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Speaker 4: projects can be at the very molecular level where they're looking,

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Speaker 4: you know, almost at the level of the atom, to

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Speaker 4: try to find a way in which a new area

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Speaker 4: of an atom or a series of atoms together in

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Speaker 4: molecules could provide a target for a drug. That's one

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Speaker 4: thing all the way to as you mentioned, how neuro

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Speaker 4: degeneration or degeneration of the nerves occurs, causing als could

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Speaker 4: be pediatric brain cancer and in the In the in

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Speaker 4: the instance of the National Institutes of Health, there are

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Speaker 4: calls for faculty and medical researchers from across the nation

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Speaker 4: to apply for grants in particular areas aging, mental health, pediatrics,

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Speaker 4: infectious diseases, kidney diseases, gastrointestinal disease, you know, across the thing.

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Speaker 4: And what I I love about the NIH, and what

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Speaker 4: I think has been so important about the nation's biomedical

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Speaker 4: research enterprise is that it's a meritocracy. The best grant wins,

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Speaker 4: and so hundreds of grants would go into the NIH

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Speaker 4: and experts in that particular area would come together. That's

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Speaker 4: called a study section. The members of the study section

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Speaker 4: read the grants and they score them, and it's like golf.

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Speaker 4: Low score wins, And so if you get say a

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Speaker 4: twelve or a two on a grant and the pay

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Speaker 4: line is twenty, you're going to be funded. In almost

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Speaker 4: every instance, you're going to be funded. And what's happened

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Speaker 4: in the last since February, let's put it that way,

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Speaker 4: since February. What's happened since February is that there has

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Speaker 4: been a slowdown in the funding of grants, consideration of grants,

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Speaker 4: paying of grants. In essence, there's been a slow down

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Speaker 4: in the commitment the nation has made to biomedical research,

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Speaker 4: which could threaten it in the nation for generations. And

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Speaker 4: this is not a minor thing for Massachusetts because in

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Speaker 4: Massachusetts we have some of the finest teaching hospitals and

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Speaker 4: four of the finest medical schools which have been conducting

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Speaker 4: world breaking research. I mean, I just hope everyone would

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Speaker 4: recognize that a member of the faculty of UMass CHAN

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Speaker 4: is this year's Nobel Prize winner this year. Now that

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Speaker 4: will change on Monday when the next Nobel Prize is awarded.

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Speaker 4: But one year ago Victor Ambrose, a member of our faculty,

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Speaker 4: won the Nobel Prize, and that was our second Nobel Prize.

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Speaker 4: Craig Mellow had won the Nobel Prize in two thousand

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Speaker 4: and six, and so across the world. The biomedical research

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Speaker 4: enterprise is respected in Massachusetts and billions of dollars into

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Speaker 4: the state to faculty members and our institutions to conductor search.

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Speaker 4: And this is critically important to the economy of Massachusetts.

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Speaker 4: When one of our investigators so Let's say when doctor

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Speaker 4: Ambrose wins a grant, the typical that he's called the

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Speaker 4: principal investigator in that instance, he typically hires seven to

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Speaker 4: ten people. Now you do that across three hundred of

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Speaker 4: our faculty, that's you know, over two thousand people are employed.

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Speaker 4: And the multiplier the economic impact of UMASH Chair Medical

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Speaker 4: School in Massachusetts is over two billion dollars.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 4: Let me.

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Speaker 2: You're thrown a lot at us here, okay, and I

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Speaker 2: want my audience to basically absorb it.

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Speaker 3: Here.

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Speaker 2: The statistic that I found to be the most interesting,

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Speaker 2: and if I heard it incorrectly, help me, is that

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Speaker 2: last year, last fiscal year, there was about you said,

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Speaker 2: forty seven billion dollars spent on medical research funding by

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Speaker 2: the federal government across the country.

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Speaker 3: Was that an accurate characterization of what you said?

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Speaker 4: That is accurate? And that this year and the budget

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Speaker 4: for this year is twenty eight billion and the twenty

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Speaker 4: years forty eight billion.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So we're talking about a significant drop twenty billion dollars.

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Speaker 2: But also that's done close to I guess you could

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Speaker 2: you could say it's a fifty percent drop when you're

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Speaker 2: talking about lopping off twenty million or so from forty

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Speaker 2: seven million.

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Speaker 3: That's you know, you're talking about drop. Dramatic, Okay, dramatic.

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Speaker 2: We also know we also know that in the federal budget,

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Speaker 2: which is a huge number, and I think the overall

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Speaker 2: budget now is somewhere around six trillion every year if

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Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken, And there's a lot of what they

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Speaker 2: call non discretionary spending social Security and programs Medicare and

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Speaker 2: Medicaid and things like that that have been promised they have.

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Speaker 2: They can trim here, they can trim there, but this

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Speaker 2: is in the discretion of the executive branch. So my

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Speaker 2: question is this, if we talk to every person or

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Speaker 2: any person in Massachusetts and said the Trump administration is

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Speaker 2: going to knock off twenty billion dollars, but twenty billion

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Speaker 2: dollars from a figure of forty seven, because the denominator

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Speaker 2: and the nominator are both important to come up with

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Speaker 2: a calculation and a percentage.

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Speaker 3: That's a big cut. That's a big cut.

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Speaker 2: Now, why do you think the Trump administration Are they

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Speaker 2: being influenced by Robert F.

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Speaker 3: Kennedy.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not looking to turn this into politics, but

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Speaker 2: I'm just under it just seems to me that when

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Speaker 2: we're talking about trying to find a cure for als,

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Speaker 2: everyone's affected potentially by a less doesn't matter who you

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Speaker 2: voted for, doesn't matter what your party affiliation. Why would

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Speaker 2: there be such a dramatic cut levied against this? Is

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Speaker 2: this something that you think President Trump is concerned about?

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Speaker 2: Are they people within his administration who was saying, here's

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Speaker 2: where we got to make some cuts.

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Speaker 3: Or do you know?

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Speaker 4: I don't, I don't. I would like to believe that

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Speaker 4: the president doesn't have that opinion. That would be what

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Speaker 4: I would like to believe. But what we are told

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Speaker 4: when when you know, when folks interact, when the Congress,

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Speaker 4: when the NIH director went to the Congress to talk

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Speaker 4: about their request, he said, look, I'm here to establish

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Speaker 4: a partnership with with the Congress. We want to change

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Speaker 4: some of the priorities. We want to we want to

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Speaker 4: emphasize research that's reproducible. So in other words, if one

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Speaker 4: scientist gets a result, that another scientist can get the

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Speaker 4: result the name and he had a series of principles

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Speaker 4: like that, and I would you know, I would say,

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Speaker 4: so fair, fair game. New administration. They want to say,

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Speaker 4: we're going to have some priorities but what the members

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Speaker 4: of the Congress and the way this should work. The

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Speaker 4: members of the Congress said, well, doctor, we appreciate your here.

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Speaker 4: We appreciate you'd like to cut the We don't want

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Speaker 4: to cut the budget. We want the budget to be

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Speaker 4: forty eight billion dollars and we want you to spend

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Speaker 4: forty eight billion dollars. That's what we want you to do.

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Speaker 4: And he kept saying, well, that's why I'm here, and

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Speaker 4: it's a partnership. So when the appropriation committees in the

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Speaker 4: House and the Senate, which is how this works, sent

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Speaker 4: the numbers for next year up, they sent they sent

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Speaker 4: a number just a little bit north of forty eight billion.

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Speaker 4: And now, with everything that's going on down there today,

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Speaker 4: you said you're going to talk about it in the

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Speaker 4: next hour. You can review it then. Obviously lots of

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Speaker 4: things are confused. But what's happened since February now is

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Speaker 4: incredible amounts of uncertainty have come into place. Let me

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Speaker 4: talk about let me do this.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna let you talk, but I got to take

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Speaker 2: a commercial break. By the way, the NIH director is uh.

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Speaker 2: He's a Stanford professor, Jay Patcharia Uh and smart guy.

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Speaker 3: I think everybody would agree with that.

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Speaker 4: Why smart?

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Speaker 2: And I'm trying to get him to come on the

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Speaker 2: show and defend those those cuts.

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Speaker 3: We'll see.

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Speaker 2: I've had him on before, but sometimes when you work

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Speaker 2: for the administration, they put a short leash on people.

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Speaker 3: My guest is doctor Michael Collins.

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Speaker 2: He is the Chancellor of the University of Massachusetts chan

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Speaker 2: Medical University Medical School. And we're talking about cuts. We'll

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Speaker 2: take a quick break. We'll be back if you'd like

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Speaker 2: to join the conversation six thirty or six one, seven nineties.

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Speaker 3: I say, we.

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Speaker 2: Got a great topic, we got a great guest. All

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Speaker 2: we got to do is add callers and stir back

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Speaker 2: on Nightside right after this.

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Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray onz Boston's News Radio.

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Speaker 2: My guest is Michael, doctor Michael Collins. He is the

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Speaker 2: chancellor the UMass Chain Medical School. We only get a

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Speaker 2: couple of minutes left until the break, and we will

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Speaker 2: get to some phone calls after the news at the

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Speaker 2: bottom of the hour.

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Speaker 3: Chancellor.

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Speaker 2: But I guess we can talk about the numbers, we

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Speaker 2: can talk about the cuts, but I don't understand why

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Speaker 2: the population, whether they're Trump supporters or not, would rise

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Speaker 2: up and say, hey, there's a lot of places that

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Speaker 2: you can cut, and we understand that cuts. After we

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Speaker 2: made we have a thirty seven trillion dollar deficit. But

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Speaker 2: this is the last place that cuts should be made,

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Speaker 2: because the research that your folks are doing on a

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Speaker 2: new mass and at other institutions might save us, might

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Speaker 2: give us an extra ten years of life or twenty

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Speaker 2: years of life, might save a parent, might save a child.

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Speaker 2: You guys, is it truly where the rough meets the road?

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Speaker 2: And this is nuts. I hate to use a technical term,

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Speaker 2: but I have no other way to describe it.

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Speaker 4: Couldn't grave with you more, Dan, And so the way

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Speaker 4: I look at this research brings hope to the human condition.

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Speaker 4: Think about it for a minute. If there's no hope,

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Speaker 4: it's impossible to get out of bed in the morning.

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Speaker 4: And our scientists are working on projects to try to

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Speaker 4: change the course of history of disease. And it could

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Speaker 4: be pediatric brain cancer, as we've talked about als. It

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Speaker 4: could be in developing new devices and ways to treat people.

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Speaker 4: You know, I had a patient that had needed an

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Speaker 4: aortic valve replaced. We now do that with two half

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Speaker 4: inch decisions in the groin, and you don't have to

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Speaker 4: open the chest anymore, and the patient goes home in

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Speaker 4: a day. These are all things that came as a

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Speaker 4: result of research and.

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Speaker 2: The ale US work that doctor Brown does at said,

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Speaker 2: I'm very familiar with that. By the way, that is

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Speaker 2: a disease that seems to strike more and more families

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Speaker 2: every year, that research will have to be cut.

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Speaker 4: I assume, well, if it's not cut, it's certainly going

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Speaker 4: to be delayed. And if it's delayed, then then the challenge.

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Speaker 4: This is the This is where I was going to

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Speaker 4: That is what I was going to say. It the

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Speaker 4: just before we took the break, that we have scientists

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Speaker 4: now who are need to do critical experiments and the

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Speaker 4: funding has stopped, and we know, just just to just

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Speaker 4: to make it real for us, you know, we have

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Speaker 4: millions and millions of dollars of grants that we know

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Speaker 4: have been approved, but they have still not been that

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Speaker 4: you know, we still have not gotten the green light

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Speaker 4: from the NIH to go ahead and start to spend

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Speaker 4: those moneys. You know, we had to let go over

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Speaker 4: two hundred and fifty people in the spring, We had

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Speaker 4: to cut back our grad school class, and every institution

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Speaker 4: has made you know, similar kinds of these actions, and

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Speaker 4: to me, it's just so disappointing because we have assembled

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Speaker 4: this incredible group of people committed to science, working on

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Speaker 4: very important projects, and through administrative inefficiency, through decision making

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Speaker 4: that is not in the best interests of human being.

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Speaker 4: And you're quite right when you say, you know, disease

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Speaker 4: is not a partisans right.

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Speaker 5: It just isn't.

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Speaker 4: And I think that you're also extremely correct in my

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Speaker 4: opinion that I think you ask the average person on

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Speaker 4: the street, they say, hey, we want the nation to

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Speaker 4: invest in research because we know the difference it makes.

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Speaker 4: Just about every drug that a patient takes has come

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Speaker 4: as a result of research that was done with NIH funding,

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Speaker 4: and now to cast this uncertainty and doubt administrative inefficiency

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Speaker 4: is just wrong.

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Speaker 2: I would have make one suggestion to you, and then

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Speaker 2: we're going to go to the nine to thirty newscast,

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Speaker 2: and then we're going to go to phone calls.

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Speaker 3: There are four United States Senators who are physicians.

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Speaker 2: All four of them are Republicans, Marshall of Kansas, Cassidy

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Speaker 2: of Louisiana, Paul of Kentucky, and Barrasso of Wyoming.

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Speaker 3: Bar is there any effort.

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Speaker 2: To reach those four and literally form a caucus that

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Speaker 2: will go up and get those four senators. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: could get a meeting directly with the President and say

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Speaker 2: this is something that is dead wrong and this has

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Speaker 2: to be reversed.

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Speaker 3: Mister President, Have you guys talked to them at all?

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Speaker 2: And I'm when I say you guys, I mean you're

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Speaker 2: you're a very influential chancellor at a medical school, major

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Speaker 2: medical school.

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Speaker 3: There are others around the country.

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Speaker 2: I think that those that the key to success might

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Speaker 2: lie with those four members of the US Senator.

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Speaker 4: Well, actually, we got fourteen Republican senators to write to

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Speaker 4: the NIH. We did exactly what you said. We got

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Speaker 4: fourteen Republican senators and they gave that exact point that

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Speaker 4: we want NIH funded, We want the research money to

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Speaker 4: get out the door. This is a very high priority

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Speaker 4: for us, and you should act upon this immediately and

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Speaker 4: we shall see.

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Speaker 2: But those fourteen senators have written to Badachari, doctor Batachari

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Speaker 2: at the NIH.

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Speaker 4: Correct.

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Speaker 2: He has to be following what the top guy, Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump is telling him. I don't know, I'm just trying

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Speaker 2: to open up a different avenue.

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Speaker 4: But that's not exactly not the way it works when

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Speaker 4: the Congress appropriates the money, the administration is supposed to

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Speaker 4: minister that funding.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I know that, I understand, I understand the political process.

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Speaker 2: But the President obviously has intervened here, and it would

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Speaker 2: seem to me that someone needs to show him that

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Speaker 2: this is.

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Speaker 3: This is folly, this is folly.

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Speaker 2: I'm just opening up as a possibility a nice little

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Speaker 2: Oval office meeting with those four US senators, maybe you

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Speaker 2: and a couple of the other chancellor, you know, heads

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Speaker 2: of medical call it medical schools around the country might

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Speaker 2: produce quicker results. With a face to face with with

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump, he occasionally does change his mind.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll see.

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Speaker 2: I'm ready, I know you are, and again I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to help you.

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Speaker 3: That's all. We're going to take a break.

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Speaker 2: We got a nine thirty newscast and we've got callers

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Speaker 2: lined up on the other side. My guess is doctor

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Speaker 2: Michael Collins, Chancellor of the U mass Chan Medical School.

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Speaker 3: Let's keep going. The only lines that are opening right

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Speaker 3: now are six, one, seven, nine. We'll get to all

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Speaker 3: all the callers, I promise. Right after the news at

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Speaker 3: the bottom of the.

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Speaker 1: Hour, you're on Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm w

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Speaker 1: Boston's News Radio.

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Speaker 3: My guest, doctor Michael Collins.

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Speaker 2: He is the chancellor, longtime chancellor at the U mass

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Speaker 2: chan Medical School in Worcester, Massachusetts. Doctor Collins, I want

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Speaker 2: to hear what people have to say, and if there's

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Speaker 2: any other quick comment you wanted to make, I think

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Speaker 2: you've you've articulated this dilemma.

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Speaker 3: Very clearly. If not, we can just go right to

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Speaker 3: the calls.

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Speaker 4: I would make one out further point. We've had a

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Speaker 4: very important moment in Massachusetts. The governor has proposed four

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Speaker 4: hundred million dollars in state funds to bridge research gaps

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Speaker 4: which are being caused by the federal government. An extremely

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Speaker 4: important initiative. You know, there is that money that came

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Speaker 4: from the millionaire's tax and that could be used to

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Speaker 4: support the public institutions. It's because it's education and transportation,

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Speaker 4: and there is a way for people who want to say, hey,

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Speaker 4: I agree with Dan Ray, and we should support research.

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Speaker 4: And that's by supporting that that initiative, and the sooner

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Speaker 4: that money could get approved and out to our institutions,

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Speaker 4: the much better chance we have of keeping and retaining

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Speaker 4: and investing in our outstanding scientists.

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Speaker 3: Is that proposal language in the in the legislature.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if I would say it's languishing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, let's put it. Yeah, well that's fine. Look,

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Speaker 2: I understand you have to be a little political here.

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Speaker 2: I get that we don't want to a lot of

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Speaker 2: sensibilities that can't be offended. Let's uh, let's get to

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Speaker 2: phone calls here. First up is Stephen Bridgewater. Steve, you

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Speaker 2: were first a question or comment for doctor Michael Collins.

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Speaker 5: Go ahead, Steve, Yes, yes, I got a question for

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Speaker 5: the doctor. I know this might be a dumb question,

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Speaker 5: but I'm gonna go out on the ledge anyway. I

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Speaker 5: know research is involved, and it's very important, needless to say,

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Speaker 5: to do this kind of research. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 5: I have a close friend that has als right now

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Speaker 5: and needs Every day he's deteriorating, he's getting worse, so

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Speaker 5: I don't know how much long he'll be around.

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Speaker 4: But with that.

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Speaker 5: Said, I think research is very important. But can I

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Speaker 5: ask this main question?

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Speaker 3: Go ahead? Yeah, you've done the preface, let's do the question.

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Speaker 4: Go ahead.

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Speaker 5: Okay, why does research have to us billions of dollars?

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Speaker 3: Great questions?

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Speaker 2: And I know that doctor Collins is going to have

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Speaker 2: a good answer, doctor Collins, you got the question.

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Speaker 4: Well ahead, Okay, so I got the questions. So we

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Speaker 4: have we have so just think about our medical school, uh,

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Speaker 4: just for a moment. So we have we in order

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Speaker 4: to do research, you need very highly complex technical facilities.

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Speaker 4: You have to you have to purchase incredibly expensive equipment.

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Speaker 4: You have to then bring the people. You have to

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Speaker 4: recruit the researchers that are going to come and do

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Speaker 4: the research, and the staff that they have. They have

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Speaker 4: to occur within an academic environment. So let me give

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Speaker 4: you an example. We have a we have some very

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Speaker 4: very precise, uh and delicate microscopes. When we got them,

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Speaker 4: they're called cryo EM cry on electron microscopy. When we

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Speaker 4: got ours, the next one was in Pittsburgh, and we

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Speaker 4: serve as a resource now to Massachusetts. We have four

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Speaker 4: of them now and so think of how the biomedical

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Speaker 4: research enterprise has blossomed in Massachusetts. We serve as a

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Speaker 4: resource to many entities. So it's actually you know, there's

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Speaker 4: collaboration and collegiality, so not everybody has to buy one

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Speaker 4: of these pieces of equipment. So in our instance, we're

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Speaker 4: a very research intensive institution. Now, second point, think of

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Speaker 4: all of the requirements that we have with animal facilities,

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Speaker 4: radiation safety, the need for us to assure that there

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Speaker 4: is patience safety. So we have things called institutional review boards,

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Speaker 4: and these are all federal mandates appropriate by the way,

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Speaker 4: not complaining about them, but they're all extremely expensive. In

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Speaker 4: order to have a research protoc call, in order to

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Speaker 4: do it well, in order to assure that the science

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Speaker 4: is conducted appropriately, there's an enormous amount of oversight is done,

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Speaker 4: and then just the actual work of the scientists. It's

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Speaker 4: it's you know, it's not like our eighth grade biology

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Speaker 4: class anymore, where you know, you put a little put

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Speaker 4: a little cover slip on a slide and put it

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Speaker 4: under a microscope. These are these experiments are extremely expensive. Now,

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Speaker 4: I think one thing you can be confident about is

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Speaker 4: that there's an intense scrutiny of the request for money.

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Speaker 4: So when I said that these go to study section,

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Speaker 4: that there's a there's a process back and forth between

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Speaker 4: the study sections and the investigators to assure that whatever

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Speaker 4: moneys the government are going to invest are appropriate for

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Speaker 4: the science being done. And I think you should be

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00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 4: very confident that here in Massachusetts, with the incredible institutions

441
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 4: we have. There's enormous oversight over the enterprise, and the

442
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 4: money is extremely well spent. If you just look at

443
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 4: the economic multipliers, just if you just think about it

444
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 4: for me, how this supports the economy. There's all of

445
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 4: the entities in Kendall Square, in a long one twenty

446
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 4: eight that are involved in either drug discovery or device

447
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 4: development and who have their home in Massachusetts benefit from

448
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 4: the research done at our institutions.

449
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: All right, Steve, I think that's a great question, and

450
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 2: I think you get an equally great answer, and I

451
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 2: thank you for the call.

452
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think yes, I think that that answers the question.

453
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you, Steve.

454
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 2: A great night, be right back with more calls. My

455
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: name's Dan Ray. This is Nightside. My guess is doctor

456
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 2: Michael Collins, Chancellor of U mass chan Medical School in Worcester,

457
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: and he is I think bemoaning and rightfully bemoaning the

458
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 2: cuts in medical research that are being imposed by the

459
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 2: Trump administration. I don't understand why cutting medical research from

460
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 2: somewhere in the city of forty seven to forty eight

461
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: billion dollars a year down to the high twenties. It's

462
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 2: a huge cut, and particularly at du mass which is

463
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 2: doing again cancer research and als. Just doctor Brown has

464
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: been amazing in terms of ALS research. And this is

465
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 2: the last thing in the federal There's a lot of

466
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: places to cut in the federal budget, but this is

467
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 2: not one of them in my opinion.

468
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 3: Stephen Cambridge is next.

469
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: We got abby and new report as well, and if

470
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 2: you'd like to try, we'll try to get one more

471
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 2: or two more calls in as well. Doctor Collins will

472
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,719
Speaker 2: be with us until nine fifty eight back on Nightside

473
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 2: after this.

474
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news radio.

475
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 2: But guess doctor Michael Collins, Chancellor of the University of

476
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: Massachusetts CHAN Medical School in Worcester. Stephen Cambridge is next. Steve,

477
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 2: welcome your question or comment for doctor Collins.

478
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 6: Good easying Dan, doctor Collins. Doctor Collins. Around the year

479
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 6: two thousand brands Collins. I don't know if he's a

480
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 6: relative or not. Head of the Genome okay, head of

481
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 6: the Genome Project, mapped the human genome. Bill Clinton predicted

482
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 6: a complete revolution in medicine. Doctor Collins that Doctor Collins

483
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 6: said that within ten to twelve years they would have

484
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 6: all diseases mapped out, and the CUIST would begin rolling

485
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 6: out universities all over the country started building big stem

486
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 6: cell research facilities. I think there was a lot of exaggeration,

487
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 6: and I think a lot of it was to secure

488
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 6: billions and billions of dollars which have since disappeared. I

489
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 6: think there's a lot of careerism and politics in the

490
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 6: research establishment, and I think there's a lot of room

491
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 6: for cutting.

492
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 4: How would you comment, Well, I think if you look

493
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 4: at what the doctor Collins was talking about, there have

494
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:07,479
Speaker 4: been extraordinary discoveries made since the early two thousand. If

495
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 4: you just look at the discovery that doctor Mellow made

496
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 4: in RNA interference, that now has spawned numerous entities that

497
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 4: are making drugs. One in Massachusetts al Nylum that now

498
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 4: has I think it's four to eight products that come

499
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 4: directly from that technology. It's essentially it's like a Google

500
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 4: search for drug discovery. What doctor Mellow's discovery showed was

501
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 4: that a small RNA molecule can, like a Google search,

502
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 4: find a cell that in which it can interact and

503
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 4: it can actually it actually can treat a disease. I

504
00:29:53,880 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 4: think that's extraordinary accomplishment, and we've mapped now roughly seven

505
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 4: thousand rear diseases, and we have numerous scientists that are

506
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 4: working on trying to cure one of those rear diseases.

507
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 4: And you know, if your family's not affected by it,

508
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 4: then God bless you for that. But we deal with

509
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 4: lots of children and families, for instance, with canavan disease,

510
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 4: which you know, it's a big name and doesn't really

511
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 4: do much. But children, you know, for average persons, but

512
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 4: these children can't lift their heads of the off the mattress,

513
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 4: they can't feed themselves, they can't walk. And one of

514
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 4: our scientists discovered the gene with it was defective, has

515
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 4: now been able to deliver a gene therapy to patients,

516
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 4: and I can show you pictures of dozens of children

517
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 4: now with walkers but walking and their lives and the

518
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 4: lives of their family completely changed.

519
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 6: I think the impression doctor, I think the impression Doctor

520
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 6: Collins wanted to make ways that the American public in

521
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 6: general would see how many many wide spread diseases tremendously cured.

522
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 6: And I think that was a lot of exaggeration on

523
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,959
Speaker 6: his part. I'm not putting down all exaggeration, but I

524
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 6: think within the research establishment they often exaggerate and primarily

525
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 6: to secure massive amounts of federal funding.

526
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 4: All Right, so we're just gonna we're just going to disagree.

527
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 3: Well, reasonable, reasonable people can disagree and do it all

528
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 3: the time. Heday.

529
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 6: One more quick point ahead. Nineteen seventy one, when Richard

530
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 6: Nixon began the War on cancer, the cancer establishment predicted

531
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 6: that by the by centennials nineteen seventy six, they would

532
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 6: have cured cancer. And they've been saying that ever since.

533
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I don't think we should criticize them for trying,

534
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: that's for sure, Steve, Steve, thank you, thank you very much.

535
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: As you can see, not everybody is on the same

536
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: side of the street in this one politically, as are medically.

537
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 2: As you would hire Abby is in Newburyport. Abby, you're

538
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 2: on with doctor Michael Collins, chance for of the UMass

539
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 2: chan Medal.

540
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 7: Right, yeah, so I'm actually on your side. So I'm

541
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 7: in the same field, and I can breakfasce this by

542
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 7: saying that, Yeah, I've been in the healthcare, healthcare provider

543
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 7: for over thirty years here in Massachusetts, and of course,

544
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 7: you know, we have the best research schools around the world,

545
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 7: from Harbid yourself to be you two toughs as you wear,

546
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 7: Jana fabraam I t and I'm sure as you are

547
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 7: that we received the Nobel Award for research. I believe

548
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 7: it was just this year. However, my questions are being

549
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 7: on that side. Uh, do you think the schools could

550
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 7: use their endowments for research?

551
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 4: Is number one?

552
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 7: And number two is where do we cut from a

553
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 7: deficit in America? You know they always say, don't don't

554
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 7: come up with a problem with our resolutions. So where

555
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 7: could we cut to make up this deficit? Because America

556
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 7: doesn't want to be owned by any anyone else.

557
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 3: You're talking about the thirty seven trillion dollars in federal debt.

558
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, okay, fine that yeah? And then lastly, you know,

559
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 7: like I said, if it meant you couldn't feed your family, right,

560
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 7: but the kids wanted a baton lesson? Is that like research?

561
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 2: So so a baton lesson in terms in terms in

562
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: terms of feeding your family and a baton lesson.

563
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 3: There's a pretty significant difference there. Research.

564
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 7: I mean, where should we where should we cut? I enderstand,

565
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 7: Oh okay, we got.

566
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: The question, got the question, Abby, And if you stay

567
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 2: right there, doctor Collins, again, I don't expect you to

568
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: pour over the federal budget. But I'm sure there are

569
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 2: other programs in the federal budget that people people think

570
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: are equally important. But I don't think there's anything that

571
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 2: compares to finding cures for diseases that affect all of

572
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: us indiscriminately, irrespective of what political philosophy we might embrace.

573
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 4: We just have a couple of reactions. First of all,

574
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 4: I don't think there are sides here. I think that

575
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 4: you know, people can respectfully disagree. I could tell the

576
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 4: prior caller about a patient that I took care of

577
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 4: in nineteen eighty that had testicular cancer, a twenty two

578
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 4: year old man who came into the hospital and was

579
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 4: dead in twenty four hours. That patient would get a

580
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 4: medicine today and would walk out of the hospital at

581
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 4: the end of the week completely cured. And and and

582
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 4: so that's, you know, maybe not every cancer.

583
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 7: I I agree with Norman, go ahead.

584
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 3: I'd let doctor Collins respond, Go ahead, doctor Collins.

585
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 4: Normous strides. Now to the point of endowments, This one

586
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 4: comes up all the time. And and you know, so

587
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 4: the institutions with large, you know, large numbers, is their endowments. Now,

588
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 4: I think that what people have to understand is when

589
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 4: a donor gives a gift, particularly a gift that goes

590
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 4: to the endowment, it goes to a specific purpose. So

591
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 4: for instance, if we're going to have the dan Ray

592
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 4: Chair of Pediatrics and a person gives a million five

593
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 4: to our medical school, I can't take the money in

594
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 4: the dan Ray Chair of Pediatrics and use it for

595
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 4: als research because the donor has told us exactly how

596
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 4: that's going to be done. And when that happens over

597
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 4: and over and over again, then the endowment grows up

598
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 4: to a bigger number. Now our endowment is, you know,

599
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 4: quite a bit smaller, even though we've had some great

600
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 4: improve in the last five years. Our endowment's gone up

601
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 4: two hundred and fifty million dollars, largely due to the

602
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 4: generosity of doctor Chan and his family and and and

603
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 4: in the long run that's going to be very helpful

604
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 4: to the institution. But I do think there's a bit

605
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 4: of a misunderstanding about out university endowments. Much of the

606
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 4: money is specific purpose money, and it can't be moved

607
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 4: from one cause to another. We have to honor the

608
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 4: wishes of the donor. And and now there are some

609
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 4: donors that say, here, you can use this for research,

610
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 4: and we do. The other thing you have to understand

611
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 4: is endowments typically put out four to five percent a

612
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 4: year of money. So if you have, you know, one

613
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 4: hundred million dollar endowment, you know you get four percent

614
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 4: of that or four million dollars that you can use

615
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 4: per year because the endowment is meant to, you know,

616
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 4: sustain the institution over the long run. So boards establish policies.

617
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 4: So I do think that the numbers get big and

618
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 4: people just say, why can't you go in and use

619
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 4: the endowment, And the answer is you can't because you

620
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 4: have to honor the wishes of the donor.

621
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 7: Right agree and thank thank you, thank you very much

622
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 7: for plaining that piece of it.

623
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: Okay, iby, Unfortunately we're flat out of time, but I

624
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 2: thank you for your call.

625
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 3: It's a great question.

626
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 7: Thank you, thank you. Okay, thank you so much, Thank

627
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 7: you very much.

628
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 2: All Right, to the callers in the line, you call

629
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 2: it a little late. Unfortunately, if you want to stay,

630
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 2: they were going to talk about a different topic on

631
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 2: the other side. But I want to thank doctor Michael Collins,

632
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 2: the chancellor of you mass Chan Medical School.

633
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 3: I suspect a lot of people.

634
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 2: We convinced a lot of people that think about this

635
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 2: issue tonight, and I think most of them who think

636
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 2: about it are going to realize that we the last

637
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 2: place we should be cutting is medical research grants.

638
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 3: So let's hope more.

639
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 4: Dan, thanks so much for letting me have the time

640
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 4: to talk with you.

641
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and if there's some progress on it, let me

642
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 2: know and we'll bring it back. Okay, thank you so much.

643
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Michael Collins.

644
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 3: Chancellor at you mass chan Medical School. And thank god

645
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 3: that we have medical schools around the country. I'd like

646
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 3: to see us have more. We've talked about that.

647
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 2: Back on Night's side right after the ten o'clock news,

648
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 2: we're going to talk about the federal shutdown and it's

649
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 2: implications and how it might or might not end, and

650
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: maybe what sort of a timetable we might anticipate.

651
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,320
Speaker 3: Be back on Nightside right after the ten o'clock news,