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Speaker 1: Hey, Michael, I just got carted for a pack of cigarettes.

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Speaker 2: I think my civil rights were violated. That's Jim Crow.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe that discrimination against cigarette smokers.

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Speaker 3: Is this Jim Crow three points Yeah, that's Jim Crow

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Speaker 3: three point oh because two point zero was during the

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Speaker 3: Biden administration when Georgia got less voting laws than where

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Speaker 3: the president. So this would be three point zero.

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Speaker 2: Yes, well, actually they should quit. Just it should be.

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Speaker 4: Jim Trump Crow.

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Speaker 3: Like he does, like to put his name on everything.

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Speaker 2: He names everything after himself. So let's just have Let's

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Speaker 2: just have Jim. Let's see Jim Crow Trump Trump, Jim Crow,

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Speaker 2: Jim Trump Crow. I think Jim Crow Trump. I think

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Speaker 2: that rolls off the tongue the past. Jim Crow Trump

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Speaker 2: or just Jim Trump, Jim Trump, Jim Trump one point oh.

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Speaker 4: Let me ask you a.

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Speaker 2: Serious question, and I want you to sent with the

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Speaker 2: question before you answer it, because the honest answer is

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Speaker 2: probably more interesting than the knee jerk reaction that you

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Speaker 2: have when you hear the phrase the deep state. What's

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Speaker 2: the first thing that flashes into your head? Tom, Tom, Tom, Now,

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Speaker 2: if you're being honest, there's probably a little bit of embarrassment,

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Speaker 2: Maybe a little wins because for the past eight years,

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Speaker 2: maybe the fucking more, that phrase has been treated by

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Speaker 2: the cabal a Saturday night Live like people at the

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Speaker 2: dinner parties, at the swanking inter parties inside the Beltway,

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Speaker 2: by all the very serious people the real hou supposed

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Speaker 2: to look up to. It's been treated as the verbal

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Speaker 2: equivalent of a tenfoil hat, the kind of thing that

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Speaker 2: you don't really talk about in polite company, you know,

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Speaker 2: the move somebody all mentioned the deep state, and suddenly

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Speaker 2: there's the theatrical eye roll, the performance of sophisticated skepticism,

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Speaker 2: as if the very idea that unlected government officials their

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Speaker 2: own agendas might take actions to protect their institutional interests,

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Speaker 2: that those people might even work to undermine a president

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Speaker 2: that they oppose, As if that idea is so self

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Speaker 2: evidently crazy that you'd have to be a QAnon follower

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Speaker 2: or maybe a MAGA true believer that unless you're one

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Speaker 2: of those, how could you ever possibly entertain the idea

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Speaker 2: if there's a deep state. Stick with me, because we're

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Speaker 2: going to build a case here with actual evidence and

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Speaker 2: actual documented facts, actual names, dates, tape, recording conversations, not

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Speaker 2: with assertions, not with vibes, not with unnamed sources, but

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Speaker 2: with documented history. And it all starts because of something

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Speaker 2: that I read Sunday, February eight the New York Times,

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Speaker 2: of all places. Now that was in the opinion piece,

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Speaker 2: but it was written by James Rosen. And I have

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Speaker 2: known each other for I don't know, I don't how

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Speaker 2: many times he's interviewed me, but he's but he's a

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Speaker 2: he's an investigative journalist. And the title of the opinion

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Speaker 2: piece was seven pages of a sealed Watergate file sat

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Speaker 2: undiscovered until now. Those seven pages are grand jury testimony.

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Speaker 2: Grand jury testimony from a former United States president, testimony

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Speaker 2: has been locked away, sealed, hidden from the public for

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Speaker 2: fifty years. And what Nixon said in those seven pages

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Speaker 2: under oath to Watergate prosecutors is, and I believe, without exaggeration,

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Speaker 2: one of the most important pieces of historical evidence about

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Speaker 2: how our government actually works, something that hasn't surfaced. And

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Speaker 2: quite frankly, I am astonished at the lack of both

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Speaker 2: the left and the right blowing this story up. The

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Speaker 2: reason you've probably never heard of it until now. Now,

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Speaker 2: parts of the underlying story that Rosen points out has

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Speaker 2: been available in the historical archives for years, that itself

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Speaker 2: is a story because the people who were supposed to

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Speaker 2: tell you about this story did not tell you about it.

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Speaker 2: So I want to do what those people wouldn't do.

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Speaker 2: I want to lay it all out, the espionage and

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Speaker 2: the cover up of the cover up, the celebrated journalists

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Speaker 2: that we all know about whose names you'll recognize, that

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Speaker 2: look the other way, And then we're going to connect

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Speaker 2: it to what happened in twenty sixteen, and let you

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Speaker 2: decide whether you're still embarrassed to use the phrase deep state.

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Speaker 4: You shouldn't be.

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Speaker 2: So let's go back nineteen seventy, Mixing as President, Henry

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Speaker 2: Kissinger national security Advisor, and together they are executing what is,

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Speaker 2: by any objective historical measure, a foreign policy revolution. I

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Speaker 2: don't do agree with all of the what they were doing,

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Speaker 2: but nonetheless it was a foreign policy revolution. There were

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Speaker 2: secret back channel negotiations with the Soviet Union, There was

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Speaker 2: a clandestine opening to communist China that, as we now

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Speaker 2: know in hindsight, literally reshaped the entire global order. It

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Speaker 2: was a strategy also for trying to extract this country

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Speaker 2: from Vietnam. Big consequential genuinely historic moves, and guests who

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Speaker 2: despised it and hated it. The Pentagon's Joint Chiefs of Staff,

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Speaker 2: those were hardcore told warriors. Admiral Thomas Moore, chairman of

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Speaker 2: the Joint Chiefs, they had not spent their career as

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Speaker 2: fighting communism to watch some Harvard professor Waltson to start

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Speaker 2: shaking hands with Mousey Doom. They thought Nixon was soft,

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Speaker 2: they thought Dayton was dangerous, and critically, Nixon and Kissinger

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Speaker 2: they thought were deliberately keeping them out of the loop,

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Speaker 2: cutting them out of one of the most sensitive decisions

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Speaker 2: because Nickxon didn't trust them, and as it turns out,

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Speaker 2: he was right not to trust them. Seeing what the

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Speaker 2: Joint Chiefs did, they planted a spy. His name was

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Speaker 2: Charles Radford, a twenty seven year old Navy yeoman, essentially

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Speaker 2: just deenographer. He had been assigned to the National Security

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Speaker 2: Council to the White House. So his job was to

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Speaker 2: travel with senior officials. As he got assigned to different

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Speaker 2: senior officials, he was to take notes, handle documents. It

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Speaker 2: was the kind of and I don't mean this pejoratively,

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Speaker 2: but it was a kind of a low level position

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Speaker 2: and nobody really pays much attention to. So for thirteen months,

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Speaker 2: for more than a year, from late nineteen seventy through

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Speaker 2: December of nineteen seventy one, Radford Charles Radford, systematically rifled

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Speaker 2: the briefcases of Henry Kissinger and General Alexander Haig, Kissinger's deputy.

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Speaker 2: He went through the burn bags. Now, those are the

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Speaker 2: bags of documents that are usually classified, almost always classified,

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Speaker 2: but burn bags. Always had one in my office. After

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Speaker 2: I would finish with a classified document or something I

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Speaker 2: didn't want anybody else to see, I'd put it in

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Speaker 2: a burn bag. Those burn bags get collected by our

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Speaker 2: security officer every single day and then they get taken

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Speaker 2: out to literally be burned. That's why they're called burn bags.

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Speaker 2: He would raid those burn bags. He would go pull

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Speaker 2: the documents out of those bags. He would go through

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Speaker 2: people's desks. He made copies of everything he could get

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Speaker 2: his hands on. And we're talking about and estimated five

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Speaker 2: thousand classified documents, secret documents, National Security Council documents, minutes

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Speaker 2: of the most sensitive meetings in the US government. And

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Speaker 2: what would he do with those documents. He would secretly

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Speaker 2: send them to his Pentagon superiors and they would pass

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Speaker 2: them on to Admiral Moore, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

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Speaker 2: And when I say the chain of command went straight

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Speaker 2: to the top, I mean that literally. Radford later testified

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Speaker 2: that he acted, in his own words, under the express

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Speaker 2: directions of his supervisors. So this wasn't some road operation

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Speaker 2: by some young sailor acting on his own initiative. This

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Speaker 2: was an institutional espionage program conducted by the senior leadership

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Speaker 2: of the United States military against the elected civilian government

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Speaker 2: that they were supposed to answer to and serve. And

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Speaker 2: here's where it gets really surreal. June nineteen seventy one,

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Speaker 2: Radford was selected. Actually, probably better said that Radford was

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Speaker 2: specifically chosen to accompany Kissinger on the tour of asion

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Speaker 2: capitals they saw from Pakistan. The press is told that

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Speaker 2: Kissinger is sick and they can't travel. The truth behind

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Speaker 2: that story is Kissinger quietly he gets a board a plane,

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Speaker 2: he flies secretly to Beijing to arrange what will become

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Speaker 2: Nixon's historic trip to China. That is, whether we like

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Speaker 2: it or not, one of the most consequential diplomatic events

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Speaker 2: of the twentieth century. And Radford is there, right there,

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Speaker 2: and before he left, his supervisor that Admiral Robert Wallander

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Speaker 2: had a simple message for him, don't get cought. So

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Speaker 2: what was Radford doing. He rifled Kissinger's briefcase while he

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Speaker 2: was in Pakistan. He collected so much material, so many documents,

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Speaker 2: that he had to ship it back to the Pentagon

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Speaker 2: through the US Embassy in New Delhi via a secure

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Speaker 2: diplomatic pouch. Is his movie kind of stuff. Now, think

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Speaker 2: about what I'm describing. The most secret diplomatic operation in

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Speaker 2: the Nicks administration, the Opening of China was being actively

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Speaker 2: penetrated in real time by the DoD that is supposed

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Speaker 2: to reap Port two and follow the commands of the

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Speaker 2: commander in chief. They were spying on the president. Nixon

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Speaker 2: found out in December nineteen seventy one.

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Speaker 4: He found out.

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Speaker 2: Not because anybody came clean, because the Nixon team was

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Speaker 2: investigating a different league. So the investigative reporter Jack Anderson

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Speaker 2: had been publishing columns quoting directly from classified National Security

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Speaker 2: Council meeting minutes. Nixon's people tracked it down, and when

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Speaker 2: they did, they discovered Radford, and then they discovered the

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Speaker 2: larger operation. So once they discovered this huge operation of

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Speaker 2: the Pentagon, spying on the President, listening in on conversations,

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Speaker 2: getting documents, a naval officer, a yeoman actually, who's supposed

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Speaker 2: to be there, just you know, as a gopher. I'll

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Speaker 2: just put it as a gopher is feeding classified information

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Speaker 2: information this be kept within the Oval Office, within the

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Speaker 2: West Wing, sending it over to the Pentagon. So on

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Speaker 2: December twenty one, nineteen seventy one. December twenty one, just

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Speaker 2: before Christmas, Nixon had a meeting in the Oval Office

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Speaker 2: that night, and that meeting was captured on the Nixon

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Speaker 2: White House tapes. John Erlckman brief Nixon, the Attorney General

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Speaker 2: John Mitchell, and Nixon's chief of Staff.

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Speaker 4: Bob Haldeman.

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Speaker 2: Erlman's summary was this, Radford had quote systematically stolen documents

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Speaker 2: from Kissinger's briefcase, Haig's briefcase, people's desks, any place in

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Speaker 2: every place within the National Security Council apparatus, and has

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Speaker 2: duplicated them and turned them over to the Joint chiefs.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: Interestingly, Nixon's response was unambiguous. He called it, quote a

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Speaker 2: federal offense of the highest order. Can't you hear Trump

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Speaker 2: saying something like this? He demanded in that Oval Office

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Speaker 2: meeting that night that Admiral Moore by prosecuted under the

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Speaker 2: Espionage Act, and Kissinger's reaction was equally unambiguous. His exact words,

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Speaker 2: also on tape, were, I think more should be in jail.

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Speaker 2: Nobody went to jail. None of these yeah whos went

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Speaker 2: to jail. So the Attorney General John Mitchell taught Nixon

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Speaker 2: out of prosecution and his argument and now follow his

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Speaker 2: lodging because it tells you everything you need to know here.

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Speaker 4: The Attorney General's argument was that any.

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Speaker 2: Prosecution would expose Nixon's own secret Cambodia bombing operations and

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Speaker 2: other secret covert op activities going on in Southeast Asia.

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Speaker 2: In other words, we cannot Here's what's going out in

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Speaker 2: the Oval Office. The Oval Office is saying, we can't

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Speaker 2: prosecute the generals for spying on us because the trial

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Speaker 2: would reveal what we were hiding from the generals. Wow,

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Speaker 2: this spy versus spy. So Nixon covered it up. He

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Speaker 2: had Radford transferred to Oregon or maybe it was Seattle,

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Speaker 2: I forget, but either Oregon or Seattle anyway, he got

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Speaker 2: the boot out of DC. So he had the JSC

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Speaker 2: liaison office to the NSC close, so the Joint Chiefs

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Speaker 2: of Staff liaison office located in the old Executive Office

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Speaker 2: building where the National Security Council is located. He had

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Speaker 2: that shut down, and then he quietly reappointed Admiral More,

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Speaker 2: the man he'd wanted prosecuted for espionage. Nixon actually appointed

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Speaker 2: him to a second term as the chairman of the

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Speaker 2: Joint Chiefs. Now, if that's not a deep state, then

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Speaker 2: I generally don't know what words mean. Then you get

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Speaker 2: to cover up of the cover up. Now before we

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Speaker 2: get to the Bob Woodward part, because that one is

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Speaker 2: generally jaw dropping hold of wake. One more point about

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Speaker 2: the structure of what I've just described, because there's something

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Speaker 2: about this episode that I think is getting under sold

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Speaker 2: even by the people who are very rarely reporting on it.

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Speaker 2: The Joint Chiefs of Staff were not liberals, They were

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Speaker 2: not left wing. They were not the kind of bureaucrats

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Speaker 2: that show up later as later as heroes of some resistance.

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Speaker 2: In fact, the Joint Chiefs were the most hockey, the

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Speaker 2: most anti communist senior military officers in the entire country.

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Speaker 2: Their ideological objection to Nixon wasn't that he was too tough.

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Speaker 2: It was that he wasn't tough enough. So they were

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Speaker 2: spying on him from the right, not from the left.

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Speaker 2: And why does that matter? Because of what James Rosen

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Speaker 2: reports and publishes, and that the historical record establishes is

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Speaker 2: not a partisan deep state, It's an institutional administration after

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Speaker 2: administration after administration deep state. What those generals shared was

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Speaker 2: not a political party. What they shared I would describe

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Speaker 2: as an institutional interest in their own power, their own prerogatives,

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Speaker 2: their own vision of American foreign policy. They wanted their

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Speaker 2: foreign policy, not the president of the United States foreign policy.

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Speaker 2: They placed that above their constitutional obligation to the civil

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Speaker 2: government that they were supposed to be serving serving. So

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Speaker 2: James Rosen, this peace of the New York Times sums

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Speaker 2: it up this way. You can read the New York

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Speaker 2: Times piece until my ex timeline right now. There's a

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Speaker 2: free link to it right there.

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Speaker 3: Quote.

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Speaker 2: When excluded from their spheres of interest in trenched bureaucratic

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Speaker 2: forces will almost as if a biological reflex, respond aggressively again,

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Speaker 2: almost as a biological reflex. So Rosa's not describing conspiracy,

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Speaker 2: He's describing a feature. It's a feature of how large,

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Speaker 2: powerful institutions behave when they feel threatened. That's probably a

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Speaker 2: far more disturbing conclusion than if he were describing a conspiracy,

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Speaker 2: Because a conspiracy, you can prosecute that an institutional reflex,

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Speaker 2: a biological reflex within the institution. That's something that's in

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Speaker 2: the carpet, in the walls, in the ceiling, it's in

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Speaker 2: the very being of that bureaucracy.

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Speaker 4: So then you get to Bob Woodward.

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Speaker 2: Alexander Haig, Kissinger's deputy, he was the man who, according

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Speaker 2: to scholars anyway, he's the one that tacitly encouraged Radford's

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Speaker 2: document theft because hay had a strong allegiance to the Pentagon,

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Speaker 2: he specifically disagreed with Nixon's vietimization policy. He had picked

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Speaker 2: Radford to go travel with Kissinger, and when the more

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Speaker 2: Radford affair blew up Hey, who had then become Nixon's

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Speaker 2: chief of staff after Haldeman had resigned, he worked behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes to try to bury the story, to make

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Speaker 2: sure that nobody ever went to trial, to make sure

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Speaker 2: that his own role was never uncovered or never examined.

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Speaker 2: So that gets this to Bob Woodward. The Washington Post reporter,

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Speaker 2: the most celebrated journalist of the twentieth century. His Watergate

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Speaker 2: reporting with Carl Bernstein brought down Nixon. His source, the

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Speaker 2: famous deep throat, was Mark Felt, the deputy director of

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Speaker 2: the FBI. The man who fed Woodward the information that

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Speaker 2: drove the Watergate story was himself, a senior official in

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Speaker 2: the most powerful domestic law enforcement agency the entire country,

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Speaker 2: using a journalist as a weapon against a president that

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Speaker 2: he disliked. But that's the story for another day. So

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Speaker 2: what we know, and what Rosen has documented, and what

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Speaker 2: a book from nineteen ninety one called Silent Coup established,

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Speaker 2: is that Woodward and Bernstein knew about Moore and Radford

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Speaker 2: and their spying on their civilian seniors. They had the

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Speaker 2: story and they passed on it. This hour's chanced to

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Speaker 2: when that thousand bucks. It's coming up in the next

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Speaker 2: five minutes thanks to Mercedes Beins of Littleton. This Mercedes

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Speaker 2: of Littleton, not Tom.

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Speaker 3: This is a great moment in your life. You're listening

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Speaker 3: to Michael Brown and his dumbassory. Pay attention.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Wake up and pay attention. This story published

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Speaker 2: by James Rosen and The New York Times on February eighth.

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Speaker 2: You can find the link on my ex account at

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Speaker 2: Michael D.

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Speaker 4: Brown.

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Speaker 2: I really would encourage you to read it. It's it's

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Speaker 2: it's heavy, and it's deep, and it's astonishing to me

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Speaker 2: that this is not getting more widespread coverage. Then I realized, oh,

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Speaker 2: the cabal would have to cover it, So of course

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Speaker 2: it's not going to get widespread coverage. So we're just

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Speaker 2: getting into the point, so to kind of reset it.

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Speaker 2: Nixon's being spied on. Nixon, who you know, no Angel

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Speaker 2: himself is being spied on by his own military, by

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Speaker 2: people that the Joint Chiefs of Staff have put into

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Speaker 2: the Oval Office, into the National Security Apparatus in order

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Speaker 2: to in order to literally steal documents and to literally

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Speaker 2: dig through burn bags, literally dig through briefcases to go

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Speaker 2: travel and while Kissinger's asleep, to steal documents, put them

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Speaker 2: in a diplomatic pouch and send them back to DC

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Speaker 2: because the Joint chiefs disagree with the president. Huh, where

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Speaker 2: have we heard that before? And then everybody says the

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Speaker 2: Trump is crazy. Now, what Rosen's documented, and again what

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Speaker 2: that book Silent Coup is established, is that Woodward and

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Speaker 2: Bernstein the Holy Grail of reporters, the holy Grail of

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Speaker 2: investigative reporters, knew about all of this that was going on,

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Speaker 2: and they said nothing. And the reason they said nothing,

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Speaker 2: the probably reason, anyway, from my point of view, is

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Speaker 2: not hard to find. That reason is Alexander Haig, the

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Speaker 2: man deeply implicated in the spy operation, the man who

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Speaker 2: was working to bury it. Alexander Haigh was one of

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Speaker 2: Woodward's key sources. Had met Hag when Woodward was a

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Speaker 2: Navy intelligence briefer to senior White House officials during Nixon's

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Speaker 2: first term. The relationship got established before Watergate. So Haig

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Speaker 2: is protecting himself by keeping Moore and Radford out of

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Speaker 2: the press, and Woodward wittingly or not, I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: accommodated that. And in the article, Rosen notes that even today,

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Speaker 2: even with all this historical record, Woodward continues to avoid

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Speaker 2: the subject of Moore and Radford.

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Speaker 4: Now remember Radford is.

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Speaker 2: More is the chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff,

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Speaker 2: Admiral Moore, and Radford is the yeoman naval kid that

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Speaker 2: is assigned to the NSC to go spy on the

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Speaker 2: president because the Pentagon doesn't like the President's foreign policy.

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Speaker 2: If you think that the deep state is something that's

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Speaker 2: just been discovered since Trump became president, it's much worse

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Speaker 2: than you ever thought. Rosen knows it even today, that

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Speaker 2: Woodward is just avoiding all of this. Is Woodward a villain?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, But I'm saying something more uncomfortable than

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Speaker 2: whether or not Woodward is a villain. I'm saying that

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Speaker 2: even the most celebrated accountability journalism in American history operated

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Speaker 2: inside a web of source relationships that had institutional actors

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Speaker 2: who had their own agendas. That the people who were

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Speaker 2: supposed to tell you about the Pentagons spy operation on

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Speaker 2: the White House actually had a reason not to tell

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Speaker 2: you that, and they didn't. That's not a conspiracy theory.

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Speaker 2: That's apparently journalism the way that the cabal sees journalism.

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Speaker 2: So let me wrap it up, let me bring it home.

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Speaker 2: In twenty sixteen. In twenty seventeen, the deep state in

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Speaker 2: it are of vernacular, and the institutional response to that

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Speaker 2: phrase was swift, unified, and in light of everything we've discovered,

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Speaker 2: almost comical, comical. Corporate media treated it as a conspiracy theory.

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Speaker 2: The pundits who considered themselves serious people you know, performed

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Speaker 2: the elaborate eye rolls. The New York Times, a very

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Speaker 2: same newspaper that published James Rosen this past week, The

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Speaker 2: Washington Post, CNN. They spent years telling you any suggestion

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Speaker 2: that unelected officials in the intel community or the military

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Speaker 2: might be using their institutional tools to undermine a elected

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Speaker 2: president Donald Trump, Well that's the that's somehow, the exclusive

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Speaker 2: province of the paranoid and the deranged. And now February eighth,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, The New York Times is publishing the

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Speaker 2: historical proof that they were wrong. Not editorially wrong, they

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Speaker 2: were factually wrong. The documented, taped grand jury sworn evidence

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Speaker 2: that the exact thing they told you was a conspiracy

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Speaker 2: theory had in fact happened before it within our living

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Speaker 2: memory with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

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Speaker 2: That is extraordinary. Now does the documented history of the

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Speaker 2: Joint chiefs and Radford proof that everything claimed about the

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen seventeen intelligence community behavior was true? Well, of course,

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Speaker 2: and I'm not claiming that that is not how evidence works,

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Speaker 2: and I wouldn't insult you by suggesting that it does.

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Speaker 2: But what the historical record proves is the premise that

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Speaker 2: the institutional apparatus of the American national security state is

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Speaker 2: indeed capable of and has actually committed covert operations against

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Speaker 2: an elected president in order to sabotage policies that those

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Speaker 2: institutions opposed. The New York Times has, in essence, by

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Speaker 2: publishing James Rosen's piece and all of the evidence that

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Speaker 2: goes with it, admitted, is admitting that, yeah, yep, we supported,

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Speaker 2: remember the Intel officers in their letter Hunter Hunter Biden

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Speaker 2: Laptop Russian disinformation. The point is that once you accept

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Speaker 2: the premise as proven, and this evidence forces you to

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Speaker 2: accept the premise as proven, the question changes because now

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Speaker 2: it's not is this deep state real? That's now been answered.

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Speaker 2: The question now becomes what did those specific actors do

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Speaker 2: specifically in twenty sixteen, in twenty seventeen and was it appropriate?

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Speaker 2: And on that question, the documented record is pretty damning,

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Speaker 2: paid for by the Clinton campaign, assembled by a former

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Speaker 2: intelligence operative built largely on Russian sources, then uses the

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Speaker 2: primary predicate for a phizas surveillance warrant on an American citizen,

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Speaker 2: Carter Page, who oh just happened to be affiliated with

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Speaker 2: the Trump campaign. The Justice department's own inspector General confirmed

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Speaker 2: that the FBI knew of serious problems with Steele's credibility

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Speaker 2: but failed to disclose that to the Phizi court. Then

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Speaker 2: senior FBI officials were communicating explicit anti Trump animus and

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Speaker 2: official communications. That's not speculations, those are Peter Struck's actual

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Speaker 2: text messages obtained through official government processes for you. The

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Speaker 2: investigation to consume the first two years of the Trump

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Speaker 2: presidency was opened on a thinner evidentiary predicate than any

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Speaker 2: comparable counter intelligence inquiry in the modern history of the FBI.

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Speaker 2: John Durham spent years documenting this. The prosecutorial results were

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Speaker 2: pretty limited, primarily because the relevant statute of limitations had

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Speaker 2: run and evidentiary standards for criminal charges are correctly high,

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Speaker 2: but the factual findings were not limited. The conduct that

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Speaker 2: he documented was real and believable. Now, now the people

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Speaker 2: who will push back on this argument, and they will

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Speaker 2: will have two moves, and I'll tell you precisely what

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Speaker 2: those two moves are.

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Speaker 1: Brownie, Brownie, Brownie, Brownie, Brownie, Brownie, Brownie, Brownie, Brownie, Brownie, Brownie, Brownie, Brownie, Brownie, Brownie, Brownie, brownie, brownie, brownie, brownie, brownie.

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Speaker 4: I thought brownie, brownie, brownie thirty seconds right there, that

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Speaker 4: was thirty seconds. Yep, that's interminable, interminable.

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Speaker 3: I loved it. Oh god, probably my favorite one of

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Speaker 3: the day.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's not saying a lot. Remember we had Goober's

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Speaker 2: making fun of other goobers, so that was pretty good.

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Speaker 4: That's true.

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Speaker 2: That was pretty good. So I think there's two reactions

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Speaker 2: to this. But Michael, Russia really didn't interfere in the election. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Bob Muller documented that Russia had a real influence campaign. Yep,

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Speaker 2: it was pretty much on social media, a bunch of bots.

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Speaker 4: But guess what.

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Speaker 2: Russia did something and the FBI and intelligence community behaved

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Speaker 2: appropriately and without political motivation. Are two completely separate propositions.

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Speaker 2: Both can be true and both can be false. They're

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Speaker 2: not logically connected. The document abuses in the Pfiser process

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Speaker 2: are not justified by Russian activity, And the second argument

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Speaker 2: would be Trump is dangerous, So whatever the intel community

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Speaker 2: was justified. That's the most dangerous argument of all. It

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Speaker 2: sounds reasonably service, but notice what it actually says. It

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Speaker 2: says that unelected institutional actors, the deep state. They get

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Speaker 2: to make the determination that an elected president is sufficiently

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Speaker 2: dangerous to justify covert action against him, whether it be

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Speaker 2: Rutchard Nixon or Donald Trump, and that we ought to

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Speaker 2: be comfortable with that as long as we agree with

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Speaker 2: their assessment of the president. Do you understand what you're

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Speaker 2: signing up for? If you buy into that argument, you're

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Speaker 2: signing up for exactly what the Joint chiefs did back

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Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy. They thought Nixon's deston was dangerous to

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Speaker 2: national security. They had their opinions, they had their experience,

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Speaker 2: they had their institutional authority, but they did not have

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Speaker 2: the constitutional authority be doing what they were doing. So

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Speaker 2: when you hear somebody tell you that the deep state

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Speaker 2: is a conspiracy theory, ask them if they've ever heard

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Speaker 2: about Yeoman Radford. Ask them about Admiral Moore, Ask them

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Speaker 2: about the five thousand stolen documents. Ask them about since

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Speaker 2: grand jury testimony that sat sealed for fifty years. And

430
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 2: then that's why the most celebrated journalists of the Watergate

431
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: era never told their readers about the Pentagon spy ring.

432
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,239
Speaker 2: Because the deep state isn't a theory, it's history, and

433
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 2: now it's in of all places, in New York Times.

434
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 2: And I think there's a real bitter irony in the

435
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 2: fact that the newspaper publishing James Rosen's piece, the paper

436
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 2: that spent years rolling its eyes of the deep state,

437
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: is the same paper whose Watergate coverage was itself potentially

438
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 2: compromised by the source relationships of its most famous competitor,

439
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: of the Washington Post. It saw the same institutional world.

440
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 2: It's the same web of relationships between journalists and the

441
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: officials that they are supposedly going to hold accountable because

442
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 2: otherwise democracy dies in the darkness. Right, James Rosen's piece

443
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: is genuinely important. And I say it because the lessons

444
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: of all of this, of more rapid for the Watergate

445
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 2: of Russia Gate, is that these dynamics are not aberrations,

446
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: they're features. And now we have a historical record going

447
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: way back into the seventies. Journalism, intelligence, the military, the bureaucracy.

448
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 2: These are all institutions populated by human beings with their

449
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: own interants, their own alliances, their own views of what

450
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: they believe America should be doing. And sometimes those interests

451
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,479
Speaker 2: conflict with the elected people that you and I elect,

452
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 2: and when they do powerful people with access to powerful

453
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 2: tools are going.

454
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 4: To use them, and your.

455
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 2: Job and you do this better than you give yourself

456
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 2: credit for, is to know that, to hold the frame,

457
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: to refuse the invitation, to decide in advance which institutions

458
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: to trust based on whether you like the president that

459
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: they're targeting, because the next time, Hey, Democrats, guess what

460
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: it might be your guy