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Speaker 1: Well, we like, I'm talking to Justin Warsham, He's we

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Speaker 1: talk about parenting issues with Justin because.

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Speaker 2: He's the best. So it's a scary time when you

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Speaker 2: say something to Shannon and she's self edits right, like

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Speaker 2: oh yes, it's like that is the terrifying moment. It

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Speaker 2: feels very much like what I imagine Pandora's Box to

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Speaker 2: be because there is a curiosity. There's a curiosity of

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Speaker 2: the unknown, but you also feel safe and unknown. I

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Speaker 2: will also say this though, if you wait her out,

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Speaker 2: she'll often tell you really like if you don't play

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Speaker 2: it like I did.

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Speaker 1: I don't even care what you were thinking, she'll hit

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Speaker 1: you it vellcrow parents?

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Speaker 3: What is a velcrow parent? I grabbed this.

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Speaker 2: Because I while coming through weirdly enough and I looked

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Speaker 2: into it very unrelated. There were like six kind of

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Speaker 2: trending articles about being a having a velcro kid, a

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Speaker 2: kid that is attached to you at the side like separation,

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Speaker 2: anxiety and this is horrible and a pet is what

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Speaker 2: I like? Those dude, so and then they stubled across

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Speaker 2: this one that was new that it said being a

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Speaker 2: velcrow parent and the downsides of it and what I

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Speaker 2: liked about it was it said, you know a lot

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Speaker 2: of people think helicopter parenting is being a velcrow parent,

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Speaker 2: but it's actually not, because helicopter parenting is just monitoring,

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Speaker 2: whereas velcro parenting you are fused with your kid emotionally

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Speaker 2: and physically, like you are invested in every moment and

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Speaker 2: everything that they do. And again, it's the part that

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Speaker 2: fascinates me about all this kind of like really trying

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Speaker 2: to be super invested in your kid is that on paper,

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Speaker 2: everyone would assume that the more invested you are in

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Speaker 2: your chick, your child's emotional and mental well being, that

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Speaker 2: that should be a good thing. But for whatever reason,

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Speaker 2: the way human beings seem to be wired is that

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Speaker 2: it does not seem to work out well like helicopter

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Speaker 2: There's all this research that's coming in helicopter parenting, this

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Speaker 2: velcrow parenting. They even talk about it here that it

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Speaker 2: leads to increased anxiety and all, And I think it

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Speaker 2: really just stems my theory as it stems from your

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Speaker 2: removing negative experiences.

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Speaker 3: Like parents being objective voices.

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Speaker 4: When it came to how I was feeling about a

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Speaker 4: particular thing, not very mature attitude to have looking back, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'm valuing that looking back, I don't think in a minute,

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Speaker 4: I think.

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Speaker 3: You going like, my dad's really being the check.

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Speaker 4: But I would looking back, I'm thinking, you know, they

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Speaker 4: were not so wrapped up in my if I was

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Speaker 4: upset about losing a game, or like I played in

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Speaker 4: a game, if I was upset about you know, insert

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Speaker 4: being upset about something here, emotional or upset about something,

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Speaker 4: they never matched my emotions.

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Speaker 3: They would just.

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Speaker 4: Say, yeah, that sucked and you know, move on like this,

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Speaker 4: so shall pass or whatever. And being detached like that

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Speaker 4: an objective I think is helpful. If you had a

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Speaker 4: parent that was like, I know, it was the worst

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Speaker 4: game ever, this is awful.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I feel like that spiral would just continue to their

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Speaker 4: snowball would continue to pick up.

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Speaker 3: It.

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Speaker 2: Talks a lot about it during the pandemic of people

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Speaker 2: who were afraid and nervous during the pandemic.

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Speaker 3: Their kids were nervous and afraid during the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Figure out why, and you idiots, Yeah, well, I mean

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Speaker 1: this this is one of those we make fun of

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Speaker 1: and talk a lot about kids and their anxieties these days.

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Speaker 1: And this seems like the velcrow parent just the mechanism

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Speaker 1: of being that close and that invested in your kid

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Speaker 1: and their outcomes. You don't allow them to have their

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Speaker 1: own feelings. And if you are that person who is anxious,

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Speaker 1: they only learn from watching you. If that's how you

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Speaker 1: deal with tough situations, is you break down and shut

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Speaker 1: down and I can't because it's so I'm so anxious. I,

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Speaker 1: then you're teaching them to do that exact same thing,

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Speaker 1: and it's I. That's not to say you can give

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Speaker 1: all your kids all the tools that they need to

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Speaker 1: function in life and they throw them all out or

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Speaker 1: they don't use them, or they hate them or whatever.

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Speaker 1: That's not that's not a guarantee, but it just seems

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Speaker 1: like this, Uh, we parents oftentimes don't do the calculation

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Speaker 1: of I need to show by example how to deal

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Speaker 1: with situations as much as as much as we should.

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Speaker 3: I wish I had.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'll do some digging into this, because all this

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Speaker 2: makes me believe we talk a lot about, like you said,

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Speaker 2: your parents, I think we all, everybody at this table

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Speaker 2: and probably most of the people listening, all have this thing.

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Speaker 2: When we were growing up, our parents didn't really care

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Speaker 2: about what we thought or what we wanted a lot,

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. They weren't neglectful, they weren't

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Speaker 2: indifferent to us entirely, but it was just there this

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Speaker 2: fible like I don't know why you're talking right now.

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Speaker 3: This is not your place to talk. Go do kid things. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: We spoke, there would be a record scratch and someone

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Speaker 1: would throw a cocktail at our head.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then they're out of here.

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Speaker 2: And we grew up with We grew up with jokes

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Speaker 2: and movies about like you know what I jokingly called

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Speaker 2: dads from the fifties who didn't express emotions and they

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Speaker 2: you know, they say I love you or I'm proud

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Speaker 2: of you one time when you're fifty seven, and then

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Speaker 2: you know, like it all happens and somehow or you're

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Speaker 2: anger for that and I I and maybe it's just

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Speaker 2: about being in the middle.

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Speaker 3: But it's I don't I don't know why that's such.

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Speaker 2: A negative thing for you to not constantly blow sunshine

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Speaker 2: up your kids, but or praise them or be so invested,

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Speaker 2: Like why do we think it's neglectful because you're just

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Speaker 2: letting them kind of live their life a little bit.

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Speaker 3: M I didn't blow sunshine.

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Speaker 4: It was realistic, but he always said I love you.

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Speaker 4: That was a big thing because he I don't think

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Speaker 4: he grew up with a lot of that. I don't know,

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Speaker 4: but I I mean, I don't know, but he was

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Speaker 4: very much always wanted to let you know I love you,

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Speaker 4: even if you know you're screwing up or whatever.

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Speaker 3: That never went away.

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Speaker 4: The withholding love never happened, and I think that is

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Speaker 4: a very important thing.

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Speaker 3: It was important for me that.

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Speaker 4: To have that, Like you know, you always know that

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Speaker 4: you're loved, even when you're a piece of crap kid

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Speaker 4: or whatever, You're still loved. It doesn't mean that they

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Speaker 4: are approving what you're doing, but they still love you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that no matter what. And I think, am I wrong?

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Speaker 3: Like I just I think you.

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Speaker 2: Can have that without this without feeling like I'm making

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Speaker 2: every decision for little Timmy and they have to do

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Speaker 2: this so they can get into this school, and this

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Speaker 2: is what you need to do. And then I need

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Speaker 2: to know everything that's going on in your life at

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Speaker 2: all points. Like I know, I teeter on that personally,

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Speaker 2: but I also there's a lot that I just like,

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Speaker 2: you're gonna figure this out.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's because and I think the difference is that

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Speaker 1: you are invested in their lives, but you're not overinvested

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Speaker 1: and you're not controlling it.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 3: I mean you're invested in the outcome.

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Speaker 1: You obviously care about what they're going through, and you

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Speaker 1: care about what how they handle whatever situation, but you're

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Speaker 1: not the one who's on the sidelines with the clipboard

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Speaker 1: yelling at him.

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Speaker 3: Going now, now, you say you do want to be

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Speaker 3: a show choir for the rest of your life, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you're right, right whatever.

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Speaker 2: I'm at the point where I feel like I'm somebody

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Speaker 2: that they walk by in a grocery store, because like

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Speaker 2: they come by and they're like, this is I go listen.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that's a good idea, but you go

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Speaker 3: ahead and do you? Man? I say that a lot

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Speaker 3: now in my house.

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Speaker 4: Can you know you can be the bump first on

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Speaker 4: the on the bowling alley the guardrails. You can't guide

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Speaker 4: the ball, but you can be there to make sure

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Speaker 4: it's on the right uh lane.

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Speaker 3: I like it myself.

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Speaker 2: The fake bumpers, like, I think they're there visually, but

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Speaker 2: if you come in hard and fast at one of

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Speaker 2: those walls, I'm gonna let you hit it.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna let you gutter it. Yeah, because I.

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Speaker 2: Really, I really think that's where people really get to

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Speaker 2: learn and grow in the gutter. In the gutter, like

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Speaker 2: I mean, I know this is a sappy example, but.

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Speaker 3: Just landed in the gutter a couple of times.

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Speaker 2: Just when we come back, we'll talk more.

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Speaker 3: Gut her time.

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Speaker 2: By the way, great, here's my podcast, Great guy, Great.

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Speaker 3: Solo venture here. This is when the band starts to

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Speaker 3: break up ka Yoka.

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Speaker 4: Justin Worsham is host of The Dad Podcast and joins

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Speaker 4: us each Wednesday where we tackle parenting. What is going

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Speaker 4: on with the trends. There's so many trends when it

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Speaker 4: comes to parenting. We went into velcrow parents and what

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Speaker 4: that entail. A gentle parenting continues to kind of make

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Speaker 4: the rounds, at least on TikTok and social media about

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Speaker 4: more often than not, I see, you know, I've got

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Speaker 4: this gentle parenting worked. It's working out. It's happening, you know,

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Speaker 4: because a kid will have one behavioral win. And then

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Speaker 4: some people who say this gentle parenting thing not working out.

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Speaker 2: I think if for the ones that I've seen where

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Speaker 2: gentle parenting is working, I think it's that they're doing it.

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Speaker 2: Like in this example that I found, this person was

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Speaker 2: doing gentle parenting but was having all these negative results.

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Speaker 2: And when they kind of did some self reflection, what

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Speaker 2: they found is that they had actually transitioned into being permissive,

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Speaker 2: which is basically anything kind of goes and you want

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Speaker 2: to be more middle of the road. And I would

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Speaker 2: perceive gentle parenting as it is authoritarian, but it is

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Speaker 2: like you're really not raising your voice. You're having a

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Speaker 2: conversation when you when you feel like instead of saying no,

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Speaker 2: you're having a conversation where you inform the kid as

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Speaker 2: to why the answer would be no, instead of just

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Speaker 2: going no, we're not doing that.

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Speaker 3: And I there's no way I could live in that

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Speaker 3: gentle parenting world.

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Speaker 2: I don't undertan trust me, there's parts of me that

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Speaker 2: wishes I was a stronger person than I could. But

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Speaker 2: I barely Like it's better now that they're teenagers, but

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Speaker 2: there were multiple times when my kids were younger that

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Speaker 2: I could barely listen to their stories, like it was

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Speaker 2: just it was hard, it was rough. They're not interesting.

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Speaker 3: People when they're young, dumb when they're young, yes, and

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Speaker 3: boring to a lot of it in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 2: It's such a weird thing to love them so much

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Speaker 2: at the same time loving somebody who's completely uninteresting.

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Speaker 3: Isn't that weird? Is Thereah? Because my wife does it

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Speaker 3: all the time, exactly?

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Speaker 4: Is there advice on, you know, listening to kids' stories

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Speaker 4: when they you know.

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Speaker 3: They're they're of that age where they like to talk

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Speaker 3: a lot.

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Speaker 4: And they're not really not really saying anything, but you

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Speaker 4: want to show them that you're interested in what they

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Speaker 4: have to say.

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Speaker 3: But they need to learn to edit, right.

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Speaker 4: They need to learn to edit and maybe only speak

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Speaker 4: for the important stuff.

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Speaker 3: Or I don't think I ever se they remember any

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Speaker 3: of that.

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Speaker 4: Like, did I waste a lot of time with my

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Speaker 4: nephews listening to innate stories?

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Speaker 3: I don't think so. Well, here's the thing.

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Speaker 2: I laughed you because obviously I was a kid who

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Speaker 2: talked a lot. I talked a lot with adults. My

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Speaker 2: dad liked me to hang around adults. He thought it

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Speaker 2: was good for me, and my mom would kind of

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Speaker 2: give me a hard time about talking a lot.

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Speaker 3: But when my.

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Speaker 2: Step mom came into the picture, she would listen to

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Speaker 2: me all the time like and was always like would

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Speaker 2: ask me questions like it's her superpower. My stepmom is

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Speaker 2: really really good with kids, like the grandkids, doesn't matter

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Speaker 2: what age they are, like, she's just always invested.

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Speaker 3: And I had moments of that.

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Speaker 2: But I also I think there were more moments where

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Speaker 2: I was engaged in listening, but there were some moments

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Speaker 2: where I'm just like, I don't have it in the

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Speaker 2: tank today, Like I just don't.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry you don't have the band way.

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Speaker 2: It gets a lot better when they're older, but I

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Speaker 2: think it meant I remember it meaning a lot to

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Speaker 2: me when I was like six and seven years old

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Speaker 2: that my stepmom would listen to me. So I don't

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Speaker 2: know that it has to be you. I think again

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Speaker 2: that I've seen data. Really as long as you're getting

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Speaker 2: it at least thirty percent of.

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Speaker 3: The time, remember still winning a lot as a child

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Speaker 3: you didn't talk about.

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Speaker 4: I don't remember having like dissertations the way that some

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Speaker 4: kids have today, where they've got like a yarn they're

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Speaker 4: spending for quite a while, you know, I don't remember

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Speaker 4: doing that to adults.

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Speaker 3: I had cousins.

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Speaker 1: We would get together and we would put on shows

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Speaker 1: for for whoever would watch, and it was really awful.

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Speaker 3: It was just awful.

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Speaker 1: And I think of it as a parent like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's variety show time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we used to do that, and we would always

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Speaker 3: put the time we put a time you got you got?

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Speaker 2: No, I always okay, you have five minutes. Even a

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Speaker 2: caundar kid, well that's the good.

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Speaker 3: A little pitchy dog, well they need to learn to edit.

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Speaker 3: They have to figure that out.

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Speaker 1: And also they have to, you know, give me a story,

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Speaker 1: give me a beginning, middle.

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Speaker 4: And end.

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Speaker 3: But see, this is this work on the closer that

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Speaker 3: this is.

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Speaker 2: Kind of the in my opinion, like the key to

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Speaker 2: my parenting philosophy, Like you have gentle parenting where I

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Speaker 2: just feel like everything about making that person feel good

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Speaker 2: and all that. All I hear when I hear, when

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Speaker 2: I listen to that is that no part of the real.

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Speaker 3: World is looking to make you feel good when you leave.

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Speaker 2: Your parents' house or the sweet cuddling of your grandmother's arms.

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Speaker 2: Nobody's trying to go how can I make Justin feel

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Speaker 2: good about himself today? And I don't understand why this

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Speaker 2: seems to be so important to us as parents. I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying that we need to manufacture tearing people down either.

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Speaker 2: That's not my point. I'm just saying, don't just be

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Speaker 2: genuine right like you can. It's not hard to genuinely

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Speaker 2: trust me. I care way more about my kid's dumb

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Speaker 2: stories than what you should. Right. There's no way that

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Speaker 2: my kid could come in here and tell a goofy

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Speaker 2: story and you be equally invested as you for letting

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Speaker 2: me off those you're welcome, so it's already baked in.

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Speaker 2: I think you don't have to worry about manufacturing the interest.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know how you're doing them any papers

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Speaker 2: if they're not interesting by telling them there are. I

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Speaker 2: used to worry because my younger son I would give

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Speaker 2: a lot of guff to and now he jokes about

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Speaker 2: it all the time like he gets it.

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Speaker 1: And to go back to what Shane was or what

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Speaker 1: you were saying earlier in terms of you know, there

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Speaker 1: was a time when we weren't listened to, when we

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Speaker 1: as kids, we were not expected to involve ourselves in

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Speaker 1: the conversation of the adults in the room. And we

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Speaker 1: all know people who have allowed their kids to have

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Speaker 1: that interaction with adults, and then when they come into

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Speaker 1: your house or there's a bigger event they're all involved.

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Speaker 3: And you're like, who is this kid? Who does he

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Speaker 3: think he is?

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Speaker 1: He's not funny, he doesn't know anything that he's talking

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Speaker 1: about about. You know, we're talking about taxes or divorces

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Speaker 1: or something like that, and he's like, yeah, tell me

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Speaker 1: about it, bro, you're fourteen.

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Speaker 2: I want all of us to genuinely take some time

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Speaker 2: to think about do you know anybody whose parents like

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Speaker 2: love them so much and thought they were so great

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Speaker 2: and so perfect that actually turned out perfect and interesting.

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Speaker 2: I've always said that just a little dusting of abuse

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Speaker 2: makes people interesting, Yeah, but not you know, physical or No,

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Speaker 2: I'm not dusting, That's what I mean spanking. There's a

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Speaker 2: lot more comedians that were great in the eighties. I'm

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Speaker 2: just saying when spanking was also cocaine. There's a difference

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Speaker 2: bet spanking and beating. And I mean this sincerely, right,

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Speaker 2: I'm not.

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Speaker 3: This discover it always causes problems.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but still I think I think all I'm saying

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Speaker 2: is you can err on the side of not being

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Speaker 2: super nice to your kid.

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Speaker 3: Not everything has to be gentle. I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I think a little abuse is good, right, Yeah, maybe

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Speaker 4: dusting shrinkle, especially.

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Speaker 3: If it's unintentional, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Where you're just like, what I mean is like you

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Speaker 2: had a moment, right, You're just like, Ah, that was

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, man, I'm not.

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Speaker 4: Supposed to do That was a moment's intentional abuse.

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Speaker 3: Oh my bad? Right? Isn't it like.

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Speaker 4: You can't act in the heat of a moment when

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Speaker 4: you're mad as a parent, you have to be intentional

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Speaker 4: about punishments.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that's realistic though. Realistically, you have a moment.

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Speaker 4: I don't think you understand about my experience in parenting

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Speaker 4: and how you should listen to me.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you know what, Honestly, you've given me a

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Speaker 2: lot of profound advice.

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Speaker 3: A lot of them came out of her gut. I

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Speaker 3: can't wait to tune in the podcasts.

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Speaker 4: The word profound because yesterday there was a story calling

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Speaker 4: Irhea profound.

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Speaker 3: So remember that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you said that, like you genuinely thought you made

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Speaker 2: that up.

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Speaker 3: From a dream. You said, Wait, you remember that, right,

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Speaker 3: because otherwise I just said that I'll allow for no reason.

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Speaker 3: And we're running out of time for Elmer to dump this.

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Speaker 3: Get it, get it, profound, profound boy,