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Speaker 1: Detalk station. It is a very happy Thursday, as it

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Speaker 1: always is at this time because we get to talk

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Speaker 1: to unless he's on vacation like last week or out.

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Speaker 1: I heart media aviation expert Jay Roratliff. Welcome back, my friend.

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Speaker 1: You know I love talking with you.

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Speaker 2: Man. You take one vacation in a blue moon and

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Speaker 2: somebody's smacking your chop. It's could be back. I can't reck.

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Speaker 1: I don't think we had anybody filling in for this

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Speaker 1: segment in the last week's show, so you sort of

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Speaker 1: leave me to my own devices, and I'd much rather

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Speaker 1: have a guest on. And I love our conversations because

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Speaker 1: again they typically are light. But let's start with one

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Speaker 1: that's not so light. Oh my god, we're all gonna die.

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Speaker 1: According to the US Travel Association president, a guy named

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Speaker 1: Joff Freeman, who said US Travel Association, this is costing

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Speaker 1: US one billion dollars in counter week. Travel is avation longer,

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Speaker 1: tsa line, flight delays, airports, reducing flights, entire control covers

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Speaker 1: going dark longer. This drags on the worst cascade. The

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Speaker 1: damage will be for local communities, for small businesses, and

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Speaker 1: for the country. His groups, US economy lost one or

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Speaker 1: losing one billion dollars per week because of those issues.

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Speaker 1: Yet Willie Wallace, a director in general airline lobby group

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Speaker 1: the International Air Transportations Association, said no, there's been no

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Speaker 1: significant disruption. There has been no stop in the recruitment

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Speaker 1: of new air traffic controllers. There were no significant impacts

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Speaker 1: to date. So who's right on this one? Jay?

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Speaker 3: I'm assuming the former did not vote for Donald Trump's

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Speaker 3: just going out there on a limb. But the last

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Speaker 3: few days I've had several TV and radio interviews where

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Speaker 3: people are freaking out over the fact that the Burbank

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Speaker 3: Airport had no air traffic controllers and we had to

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Speaker 3: pivot and have another air traffic control center take care

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Speaker 3: of the arrivals and departures at that airport. It's as

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Speaker 3: though this guy is falling. It happened in Nashville where

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Speaker 3: we had a shortage. So and of course I've got

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Speaker 3: my referee shirt on the whistle and I'm blowing a

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Speaker 3: time out trying to get these people to stop so

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Speaker 3: I can tell them that in the last nine months, Brian,

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Speaker 3: that's happened a thousand times, right.

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Speaker 1: Well, and didn't Burbank close a bunch of times in

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Speaker 1: events of this as well, because.

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Speaker 3: It does, it does, and we've got redundancies, we've got

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Speaker 3: cistens in place, procedures in place, and it's like, wait

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Speaker 3: a minute, if this is such a big time issue,

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Speaker 3: now where were you the other thousand times it happened

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Speaker 3: in just the last nine months. So it's an obvious

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Speaker 3: to me and not surprisingly moved by people that are

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Speaker 3: trying to push back on the administration saying that you know,

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Speaker 3: this is endangering the lives of everybody who flies and

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Speaker 3: it's a horrific time to fly, and all this is

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Speaker 3: taking place, and I'm saying, no, it's being brought upon

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Speaker 3: because we have a shortage of bear traffic controllers, period,

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Speaker 3: and that's why all of those thousand occurrences took place,

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Speaker 3: and that's why it's happening now. Now it's a little

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Speaker 3: bit different now, And Brian, I can certainly understand you

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Speaker 3: have a lot of men and women who are going

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Speaker 3: to get a partial paycheck on Tuesday the fourteenth, and

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Speaker 3: then two weeks after that on the twenty there and

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Speaker 3: to get hit no paycheck, and these air traffic controllers

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Speaker 3: are being asked to show up to work and their

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Speaker 3: pay is to be delayed, and some of them are saying,

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Speaker 3: and I know this to be the case. I've got

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Speaker 3: bills to pay, I've got to put food on the table,

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Speaker 3: and I don't have six weeks of income saved up.

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Speaker 3: I do have a secondary job. I can go do that.

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Speaker 3: I'll get paid right now for so I'm gonna call

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Speaker 3: in sick even though I don't want to, and I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna go work where I know I'm gonna get paid

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Speaker 3: so I've got the money to survive on because that's

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Speaker 3: what I'm forced to do. So I'm certainly not gonna

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Speaker 3: fault the men and women if that's the route they've

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Speaker 3: got to go to. The air traffic controllers, they're already overworked,

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Speaker 3: they're being forced into overtime, they're morale is down, they're

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Speaker 3: using equipment that is just beyond archaic. So there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of things right there that I do understand.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: I wish they wouldn't do it because that puts a

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Speaker 3: strain on the people that they're working with. But when

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Speaker 3: it comes down to should I be there for my

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Speaker 3: teammates that I'm working with, or do I need to

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Speaker 3: make sure I've got food on the table for my kids.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I know which way that's going to go

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Speaker 3: each and every time. So the bottom line is we're

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Speaker 3: six weeks away from the busiest travel week of the year.

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Speaker 3: We've got to get this resolved now so that we

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Speaker 3: don't get into November and start having an issue with

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Speaker 3: uh oh, having this type of a scenario take place

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Speaker 3: when it's the busiest travel time, that's when we will

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Speaker 3: have a problem.

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Speaker 1: We'll continue with iHeartMedia Aviation Expert Jay Ratliff, including a

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Speaker 1: common or two on West Jet figuring out yet another

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Speaker 1: way to anger its passengers eight thirty five Right now

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Speaker 1: fifty five kr C Detalk station See eight thirty seven

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Speaker 1: to fifty five car CD Talk station. iHeart Meaty Aviation

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Speaker 1: Expert Jay Ratliff definitely has. We are fortunate to have

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Speaker 1: them every week on the fifty five CARSCEN Morning show

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Speaker 1: beginning at a thirty through the end of the program.

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Speaker 1: And let's pivot over to cigarettes smuggling. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: the Russians are shutting down airspace. It's the Chinese Communist

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Speaker 1: Party with a drone strike. Oh, maybe it isn't. Maybe

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Speaker 1: it's people who don't want to pay taxes on cigarettes.

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Speaker 1: This is kind of crazy. Jay I saw the reporting

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Speaker 1: on this when it first came out, A cigarette delay.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm trying to figure out what delay code

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Speaker 3: we could have used with this. But he had an

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Speaker 3: airport Lithuania shut down because of the fact that it

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Speaker 3: was unsafe for aircraft to approach the airport because they

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Speaker 3: had I think it was twenty five balloons, large ones

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Speaker 3: that had been lifted off that were in essence carrying

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Speaker 3: cigarettes that were being smuggled, and it affected about thirty

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Speaker 3: some flights that were coming in. They said thousands of

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Speaker 3: passengers were impacted by this because the fact that they

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Speaker 3: had so many balloons in that airspace that represented a

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Speaker 3: problem for approaching aircraft. And it's you know, I think

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Speaker 3: the only other bizarre kind of story would be like

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Speaker 3: if you went back a gazillion years ago to the

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Speaker 3: man that put a bunch of balloons, healing balloons onto

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Speaker 3: his lunch chair and lifted himself up. I remember that

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Speaker 3: and up and up, Brian, I think he got up

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Speaker 3: to like fifteen thousand feet.

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Speaker 2: I'm crazy in a lawn chair.

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Speaker 1: Did he have a big did he have an air

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Speaker 1: rifle with him to shoot the balloon?

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Speaker 2: The time? Way that way he could come down.

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Speaker 3: His wife's on the radio tell him to come down.

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Speaker 2: And look.

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Speaker 3: I was a skydiver for a bunch of years, but

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Speaker 3: I'm not a big fan of heights. So the thought

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Speaker 3: is going up in a lawn chair to any altitude

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Speaker 3: like that, I mean, I'm sorry, that's just crazy. But yes,

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Speaker 3: the cigarette smuggling balloon situation that shut down an airport

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Speaker 3: is certainly one of the reasons I'll never tell you that,

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Speaker 3: you know, I've seen it all because you never underestimate

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Speaker 3: people in what they're capable of doing.

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Speaker 1: Ever, no doubt about it. And I guess it's kind

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Speaker 1: of funny. That was an extraordinarily low budget smuggling effort,

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Speaker 1: considering they just used helium balloons. If they had gotten

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Speaker 1: an actual drone, they probably would have been far more

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Speaker 1: successful getting the cigarettes to the location they wanted to

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Speaker 1: send them to.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of hard to control where a balloon goes

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Speaker 3: to something, I know, yeah, and where they're going to

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Speaker 3: land and such. So I guess it's a crapshoot which way.

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Speaker 2: Things are going to go. But you know, who knows.

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Speaker 3: You probably laugh at the people that were doing it

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Speaker 3: because they may not have had well, they had enough

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Speaker 3: intelligence to get the thing's airborne. I got to give

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Speaker 3: them credit for that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and you're how many? I hate to put you

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Speaker 1: on the spot, but I know how would you are?

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Speaker 1: You don't have to say it.

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Speaker 2: Let me a curve ball.

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Speaker 1: How many decades have you been in the aviation business field, expertise,

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Speaker 1: knowledge and that kind of thing. How long have you

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Speaker 1: been following closely aviation?

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Speaker 3: Well, I started working in nineteen eighty.

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Speaker 2: One, in October.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so I've been as I've been associated with the

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Speaker 3: airline industry going back to just after deregulation took place

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Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy eight.

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Speaker 1: On planes, in planes, in management, and variety of different roles.

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Speaker 1: You've seen it all, So I guess that's the predicate

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Speaker 1: for my question.

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Speaker 2: Not all, but yeah, Well, like.

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Speaker 1: Cigarette smuggling balloons say down airports, every day is a

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Speaker 1: new day with that caveat, I see yet another are

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Speaker 1: headline drunk New Jersey's sisters arrested after meltdown for being

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Speaker 1: kicked off Frontier Airlines flight and attacking a worker. And

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Speaker 1: this is all on body camera footage. Now, this is

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Speaker 1: one among a seemingly endless number of incidents like this

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Speaker 1: where people get out of hand, they start getting all

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Speaker 1: punchy and fighty and belligerent and they get chucked off

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Speaker 1: of an airline. Is it just the internet and pervasive

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Speaker 1: ubiquitous nature of cell phone cameras that we are aware

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Speaker 1: of this, or this a newer phenomenon. Is this becoming

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Speaker 1: far more frequent because people getting kind of disrespectful of

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Speaker 1: authority figures and really not have any sense of ethics

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Speaker 1: and morality. That is a common problem across the board

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Speaker 1: that appears to be growing. I'm just wondering, in so

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Speaker 1: far as airline incidents, is it a growing phenomena.

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Speaker 3: I think to a certain degree it is, but it's not.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we were dealing with it back in the eighties,

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Speaker 3: right in the nineties, because we would always have individuals

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Speaker 3: that had a disrespect for authority, didn't want to be

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Speaker 3: told what to do, and different types of things where

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Speaker 3: they were just absolute, very difficult people to work with.

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Speaker 3: And sadly, sometimes that took place when the aircraft was airborne.

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Speaker 3: A lot of times it was alcohol involved, and you

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Speaker 3: had a lot of situations that required us to kind of,

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Speaker 3: you know, pivot with regards to what was going on

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Speaker 3: with the aircraft, the operations or.

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Speaker 2: Things of this nature.

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Speaker 3: It becomes much more of an issue now because with

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Speaker 3: the advent of everybody having the ability or to record

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Speaker 3: what's happening and then post it immediately, where a situation

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Speaker 3: goes viral, not once it hits the mainstream press, but

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Speaker 3: once it hits social media and it's shared around the world,

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Speaker 3: it becomes much more of an issue that people are

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Speaker 3: aware of. And sadly, we're seeing, you know, more and

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Speaker 3: more examples of this front and center, where you've got

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Speaker 3: these individuals that are telling uniform flight attendant they're not

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Speaker 3: going to do what they're being told to do, which

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Speaker 3: is a federal offense, or causing a situation where an

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Speaker 3: aircraft is delayed in departing or creates a diversion, or

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Speaker 3: any of these other things. And Brian, it's when you

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Speaker 3: have individuals that attack passengers, shove flight attendants, rush the cockpit,

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Speaker 3: whatever it might happen to be. These people are clearly

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Speaker 3: in individuals that should not be flying on any US

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Speaker 3: carrier in the country. Sadly, these two individuals from Frontier

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Speaker 3: will be banned for life from flying Frontier, thank you.

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Speaker 3: They should be, but they're free to fly any other carrier.

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Speaker 3: And you and I've talked about this so many tis

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Speaker 3: why are we going to allow knowingly these individuals to

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Speaker 3: fly on other carriers?

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Speaker 2: And there needs to be some.

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Speaker 3: Sort of consequence if you act up, if it's an argument,

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Speaker 3: you're having a bad day, Believe no, I don't want

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Speaker 3: to ban you from flying. But if I shove a

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Speaker 3: flight attendant or I attack a passenger, I should be

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Speaker 3: you know, putting time out fly wise for like three

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Speaker 3: to five years. I don't think that's anything that's outside

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Speaker 3: the the you know, it would be considered extreme here,

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Speaker 3: but airlines won't do it because it costs them money

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Speaker 3: to track it, and that's why they say that they

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Speaker 3: refuse to do it.

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Speaker 1: We got a no fly list, jay ry love if

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Speaker 1: if they can track no fly lists, which obviously are

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Speaker 1: bigger and contain people who don't deserve to be in

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Speaker 1: the no fly list because of errors in government, they

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Speaker 1: can have a list like this. Is this something the

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Speaker 1: FAA could mandate if they chose to do so.

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Speaker 2: Oh they could, they could.

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Speaker 3: The problem is the airlines tell their government what they're

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Speaker 3: going to do instead of the other way around. And

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Speaker 3: we're in a very residential administration friendly environment here where

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Speaker 3: everybody gets along and everybody kind of can push things.

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Speaker 3: And this is not the administration, even though I'm a

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Speaker 3: big fan of the Trump administration what he's doing. They're

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Speaker 3: not going to be held accountable and to be forced

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Speaker 3: to do this type of thing, even though they should.

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Speaker 3: And that's why when I see all these CEOs from

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Speaker 3: airlines talking about how much they care about their passengers

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Speaker 3: and employees, I just want to throw up because I'm thinking,

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Speaker 3: stop it, because you're saying one thing and then doing

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Speaker 3: something completely different. If you really cared about your employees

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Speaker 3: and you really wanted to protect them, you would spend

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Speaker 3: whatever money it took to keep these individuals that have

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Speaker 3: been convicted of these types of actions off of your flight.

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Speaker 3: And if it happened on a Southwest flight, you're making

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Speaker 3: sure they don't fly you on American or Delta or

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Speaker 3: United or South South rus whatever it is. But we're

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Speaker 3: not doing it. During the pandemic, the airlines were asked

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Speaker 3: early on to provide and track information and give it

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Speaker 3: to the government, and they said, well, we don't have

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Speaker 3: the main power to do it, and they said, well,

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Speaker 3: this could help us. Actually prevent the spread of COVID.

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Speaker 3: If we could have this information, I'm sorry we're not

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Speaker 3: going to be able to do it again. The airlines

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Speaker 3: telling the government what they're going to do instead of

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Speaker 3: the other way around.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing. And to your point earlier, I don't care

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Speaker 1: how bad a day you're having. Nothing can justify you

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Speaker 1: assaulting or battering another human being that has no connection

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Speaker 1: with your bad day. Well on more with, We're going

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Speaker 1: to find out how many ways you can anger a customer.

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Speaker 1: West Jet creating a new way to anger its air

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Speaker 1: traffic passengers plus hub delays. Are going to find out

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Speaker 1: how good it is to travel today More with Jay

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Speaker 1: Ratliff after this brief word, these brief words from if

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Speaker 1: any five t CD talk station one more time I

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Speaker 1: heard me the aviation expert Jay Ryloff, intentionally held on

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Speaker 1: the the goofiest and the dumbest for the last Jay,

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Speaker 1: you gave me a heads up on this one yesterday.

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Speaker 1: My reaction is like, you've got to be kidding me.

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Speaker 1: Tell them what west Jet's doing now, Well, they have.

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Speaker 3: They've decided to give passengers the opportunity to take advantage

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Speaker 3: of a premium seating option on their flights.

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Speaker 1: Of course that's first class, right, that's first class premium seating.

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Speaker 3: They kind of, I think, redefined the word premium Brian

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Speaker 3: in essence, if you want to seat the reclines, they're

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Speaker 3: going to.

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Speaker 2: Charge you more.

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Speaker 3: Now, I mean, we we've talked about, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: what are we being charges for oxygen? It used to

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Speaker 3: be you could take any seat you wanted, and then

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Speaker 3: they said, you know, people will actually pay money to

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Speaker 3: get their seats assigned in advance. Okay, And then they said,

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Speaker 3: you know, some people prefer window seats over middle seats,

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Speaker 3: so we can start charging it more for that. You know,

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Speaker 3: some people prefer aisle seats, and then they decided let's

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Speaker 3: give them a little bit more leg room, et cetera,

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Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. Now here's how this is going

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Speaker 3: to be sold to the American traveling public. So many people,

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Speaker 3: the airlines will say, are having fights over reclining seats,

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Speaker 3: and it's really creating a customer service problem. So US

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Speaker 3: as the airline, we're going to make sure that we

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Speaker 3: can alleviate those problems. So we will make every seat

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Speaker 3: on the airplane incapable of reclining. We'll have them all

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Speaker 3: at this slight angle and everyone will have the same

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Speaker 3: and nobody can recline it. So that's how we're going

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Speaker 3: to take better care of our customer. Of course, ps

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Speaker 3: in behind closed doors. They can now put an extra

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Speaker 3: two rows on every aircraft so they can make more revenue. Okay,

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Speaker 3: that's the reason they do it. So now they're going

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Speaker 3: to say, we're going to give you some premium seats

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Speaker 3: and un West Jedi, I think it's twelve seats per

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Speaker 3: seven thirty seven that they're going to have this on.

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Speaker 3: You can actually pay for these seats for the ability

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Speaker 3: to recline, and that's going to be an additional service.

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Speaker 3: And it just you know, and you know, congratulations to

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Speaker 3: them for finding another way to squeeze more money out

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Speaker 3: of us. Because from a business standpoint, it's like, you know,

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Speaker 3: we used to check bags and it didn't cost us

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Speaker 3: a penny. Now we have to pay for it. We

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Speaker 3: used to actually be able to carry bags on an airplane.

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Speaker 3: Now we got to pay for it. We actually used

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Speaker 3: to be able to sit in the seat that had

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Speaker 3: a little button that could push his let our seat

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Speaker 3: recline for free.

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Speaker 2: No, now we're gonna have to pay for it.

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Speaker 3: Now you watch what's going to happen here West Jetus

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Speaker 3: go the first airline.

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Speaker 2: Yep, the leader brother, Buckle up and brace for impact.

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Speaker 1: This reminded me of the I think BMW been the

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Speaker 1: first automat auto manufacturer, but it's kind of become a

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Speaker 1: popular thing to equip the cars with all the technology

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Speaker 1: and then charge you to actually activate it.

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Speaker 2: So out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so like a heated seat. It's in there, but

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Speaker 1: you got to pay fifty bucks a month or whatever

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Speaker 1: under some performance package to make it work. So my question,

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Speaker 1: insofar as the seats are concerned, you mentioned the button.

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Speaker 1: Are they just going to disable the reclined mechanism so

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Speaker 1: that saves them having to replace the seats so the

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Speaker 1: technologies in there, it's just been blocked out, or are

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Speaker 1: they actually going to change the seats out to be fixed.

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Speaker 2: I don't think they change the seats out.

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Speaker 3: I think that would make it because it would be

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Speaker 3: too expensive. But I'll tell you this, as future airplanes

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Speaker 3: are ordered, you will have airplanes with these seats with

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Speaker 3: the slight recline that there's no way they can be reclined.

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Speaker 3: And of course some people have these knee blocker type

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Speaker 3: devices that you can buy and I'm not advocating you

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Speaker 3: do this, and you can actually put it in the

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Speaker 3: seat in front of you that prevents the seat from reclining.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, the knee blockers or whatever they're called, if

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Speaker 3: flight attendants really get upset at us when we use them,

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Speaker 3: because when somebody tries to recline a seat and can't

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Speaker 3: and it's found out what happened, you know, probably the

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Speaker 3: person before you put them on.

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Speaker 2: They're not you.

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Speaker 3: But right it comes, it becomes it becomes I'm not

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Speaker 3: suggesting you do this, but it's it's Airlines are getting

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Speaker 3: tired of of, you know, some of the stuff that

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Speaker 3: flight attendants have to deal with, and certainly flight attendants

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Speaker 3: are getting tired of being the referee between people that

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Speaker 3: reclient seats, don't recline seats and all this and that,

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Speaker 3: because there's a lot of arguments and a lot of

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Speaker 3: the low cost carriers have aircraft that again, the seats

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Speaker 3: don't recline. They've got a slight recline to them, and

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Speaker 3: they're not super comfortable seats, but you're not in them

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Speaker 3: for an extended period of time, and they're lightweight, and

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Speaker 3: they can also put more seats on the airplane.

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Speaker 2: So that's the case.

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Speaker 3: But when I when I saw that, I thought, oh,

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Speaker 3: you gotta be kidding me. One I thought, why didn't

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Speaker 3: I think of that? Because you know it's something, because

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Speaker 3: it's so ridiculous, Sure we're going.

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Speaker 2: To do it.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of expertors I could use on that

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Speaker 1: was because you're not, say a jerky. You didn't think

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Speaker 1: of that because you would find the concept to be

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Speaker 1: offensive to the consumer. Anyway, You and I are not

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Speaker 1: wired deat way brothers. No we are not. No, we

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Speaker 1: are not as we always Let's talk about hub delays.

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Speaker 1: What's it looking like out there today for travel Jay Ratlift.

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Speaker 3: This entire week has been a mess because especially with

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Speaker 3: some weather that's been coming in off the Northeast. But

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Speaker 3: today is difference, and I'm thrilled to say the mess

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Speaker 3: in the Northeast has gone. Really, if if I was

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Speaker 3: getting paid for delays, it would be it'd be a

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Speaker 3: light day because Seattle is about the only airport hub

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Speaker 3: that's going to be impacted because of weather. Everything else

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Speaker 3: has been pretty well cleared out. Even I think some

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Speaker 3: of the turbulent areas where we could be experienced turbulence

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Speaker 3: have really subsided. So if you pick the day, you

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Speaker 3: get like a triple gold star because it's just going

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Speaker 3: to be an incredible day to fly. You pick the perfect,

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Speaker 3: perfect day to take to this.

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Speaker 2: Guys love it.

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Speaker 1: We get end on a positive note and typically the

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Speaker 1: entire conversation is positive. Jay Ratlift, love having you on

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Speaker 1: the show Man. Look forward to next Thursday with another

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Speaker 1: air traffic or airline report or aviation report, and as always,

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Speaker 1: I hope you and your better half have a wonderful

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Speaker 1: day and week