Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American?
Speaker 2: Back at it? The Scott Flung Show on seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 2: Short week for the holiday, of course, coming off an
Speaker 2: awful weekend for sports and since none unless you know
Speaker 2: it's Saint Xer team Same Xavier for that manner. It
Speaker 2: was one of the biggest stories of the decade back then,
Speaker 2: the disappearance and murder of Caitlin Markham. Of course, she
Speaker 2: vanished from her Fairfield home in August of twenty eleven.
Speaker 2: Two years later, her remains were discovered at a dumb
Speaker 2: site Indiana, and her fiance, John Carter, was indited for
Speaker 2: murder just two years ago, so that's a full decade
Speaker 2: after her disappearance. He pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter and
Speaker 2: just before trial he received the three year sentence under
Speaker 2: ohiolaw that's the maximum. Now John Carter wants early release
Speaker 2: after serving fourteen months of his three year sentence, so
Speaker 2: just a little over a year on. That is the
Speaker 2: father of the late Caitlin Markham. Dave Markham on the
Speaker 2: show on seven hundred WLW. Dave, I'd imagine this news
Speaker 2: coming out is the context of the holidays coming It's
Speaker 2: it's got to be hard every year for you. And
Speaker 2: you know I heard this, I instantly thought of you
Speaker 2: and the family. Your reaction, I know what mine was,
Speaker 2: But your reaction when you found out John Carter was
Speaker 2: seeking early release after serving less than half of a sentence.
Speaker 2: What what were your thoughts going through your mind at
Speaker 2: that time?
Speaker 3: Actually? I just thought, uh, you know, the the audacity
Speaker 3: and the and the arrogance that he just seems to
Speaker 3: have that he doesn't you know, he doesn't deserve the
Speaker 3: two times three years was not enough as it is,
Speaker 3: But I don't know, he just seems to be living
Speaker 3: in his own fantasy world that fourteen months and oh, hey,
Speaker 3: I shouldn't have to serve time, you know, let me
Speaker 3: out early. I've been a good boy, and I just
Speaker 3: don't buy any of it. It's uh, it's very shocking.
Speaker 3: I guess it's I guess it's expected for him to ask.
Speaker 3: They all have that, right. It was really hard to swalloough.
Speaker 2: Well, considering just how dishonesty was. I guess during this
Speaker 2: whole process, for lack of a better term, fought everything
Speaker 2: tooth and now and now twelve fourteen months later, he
Speaker 2: wants out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you said it. He's live from the get go.
Speaker 3: He lied to the nine to one one callers, and
Speaker 3: he's been lying ever since. The prosecutor wants, you know,
Speaker 3: an education, and he wants him to vets up to everything, named, names, places, people,
Speaker 3: how he did it. I don't see John doing that.
Speaker 3: He hasn't said one thing honest and truthful the entire
Speaker 3: fourteen years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mike Bucher kind of laid it out there, floated
Speaker 2: the balloon and said, look, if Carter is able to
Speaker 2: give us the details, because that has been lacking in
Speaker 2: this whole thing. What happened the night she died? Why
Speaker 2: do you transport the body where you did put the pieces?
Speaker 2: Was anyone else involved? For that matter? If he were
Speaker 2: to give a full account, now, would that change your
Speaker 2: position on his early.
Speaker 3: You know maybe, No, I don't think so. He would
Speaker 3: really really have to come clean and be sincerely honest,
Speaker 3: and right now I'm just very doubtful that he can
Speaker 3: be honest. So, you know, I'm kind I'm kind of
Speaker 3: up in the air. No, don't. I don't want him
Speaker 3: out early, And like I said, he'd have to really
Speaker 3: do some convincing to get me to agree to let
Speaker 3: him out early. And I think that fourteen, fifteen, eighteen
Speaker 3: months is not nearly enough time.
Speaker 2: It sure isn't you know. The expression getting away with
Speaker 2: murder is well used, for sure, and this certainly applies
Speaker 2: here for what he did in his role in not
Speaker 2: only just murdering Caitlin, but disposing of the body in
Speaker 2: the most heinous fashion available, and then all the other
Speaker 2: things that he did to try to cover the crime up.
Speaker 2: Serving just three years, let alone fourteen months doesn't seem
Speaker 2: like it's enough. But at the same time, Dave Markham,
Speaker 2: would you trade his early release for closure knowing exactly
Speaker 2: what happened to your daughter back in twenty eleven?
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 2: You mentioned in court that Carter just won't get out
Speaker 2: from under your skin. What's it like the last decade
Speaker 2: plus living with this case owner resolved for so long?
Speaker 2: We first a decade for an indictment and the plea
Speaker 2: deal instead of a trial, and now this early release question.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just can't seem to get away from it.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: We went to court Thursday and I thought I was
Speaker 3: going to get another answer, you know, deny or approve,
Speaker 3: But then we come up with this and I've got
Speaker 3: another you know, I've got another court date January ninth.
Speaker 5: I'll be back there again.
Speaker 3: It just seems to still just grab hold and uh,
Speaker 3: you know, he doesn't ruin my day, but he sure
Speaker 3: does put some put me through some emotions. Here we
Speaker 3: go again.
Speaker 2: Is it especially difficult day of this happening right before
Speaker 2: the holidays? I mean when were the holidays big and
Speaker 2: your family with Caitlin and all that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously it is. It is poor timing. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: a tough time of year every year, and I you know,
Speaker 3: I've got this hanging over my head now, and yeah,
Speaker 3: it will definitely, uh, it'll definitely pull some emotions on Christmas,
Speaker 3: more so than usual, just knowing that a week later,
Speaker 3: you know, I'll be back in court trying to get
Speaker 3: this thing closed, done, wrapped up, but behind me so
Speaker 3: to speak. Yeah, and if John could come up with
Speaker 3: some really honesty, then yeah, I'm I have a change
Speaker 3: of heart, but I'm very very doubtful that he Yeah,
Speaker 3: you can't do that.
Speaker 2: It's kind of a sophie's choice, right. You want him
Speaker 2: to spend the maximum. At the same time, you also
Speaker 2: want to know what happened to her, to your daughter,
Speaker 2: and and at least no and know the whole story,
Speaker 2: I guess, and that's what's been missing this whole thing.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine what it's like having his name pop
Speaker 2: up every so often. Now every time he's up for parole,
Speaker 2: you're going to go through this same set of emotions again.
Speaker 2: If you would just give up the ghosts, so to speak,
Speaker 2: I think it'd be better for you, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, so give it up, be honest, and
Speaker 3: then I'll deal with it the way I have to.
Speaker 3: But right now it's you know, it's never ending. There's
Speaker 3: no there is no closure. It's always always there and
Speaker 3: John just keeps, you know, rear in his ugly head
Speaker 3: and here it is again.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: Dave Markham, dad of Caitlyn Mark, of course, disappeared from
Speaker 2: her Fairfield home back in twenty eleven. Ten years later
Speaker 2: find out founder remains, and then, of course John Carter
Speaker 2: he and fiance indicted murder just two years ago. This
Speaker 2: has played out since twenty eleven and now he's asking
Speaker 2: for early release from his three year sentence. And that's
Speaker 2: why it's only three because of the conditions in which
Speaker 2: the confession came about, the involuntary manslaughter play. It means
Speaker 2: only gets three years and that's the maxim for that charge,
Speaker 2: far less than a murder conviction would have brought. But
Speaker 2: in retrospect, with this new information about him wanting out early,
Speaker 2: looking back, do you have thoughts about the decision, the
Speaker 2: prosecutor's decision to accept that plea deal before trial.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 3: You know, there's a lot of circumstantial evidence and that's
Speaker 3: what it was in this decision to definitely get you know,
Speaker 3: his confession, his admission of guilt. That's something it could
Speaker 3: have gone drastically wrong and him been you know, found acquitted,
Speaker 3: and I would not have liked that. I would Yes,
Speaker 3: I would have liked to have seen him spend thirty
Speaker 3: years behind bars. But now I don't. I don't question
Speaker 3: the prosecutor's decisions. They've been very fair and honest, and
Speaker 3: you know that they want him too. They're they're going
Speaker 3: after him. So yeah, I respect him and in their decisions.
Speaker 2: You know, when they went and got the search order,
Speaker 2: the search weren't rather at h at the house of
Speaker 2: John Carter's mom. There were a dozen items that receives
Speaker 2: notes on the investigation, Caitlin's papers, some landscaping material that
Speaker 2: they believe was a material that was taken to use
Speaker 2: to wrap her body and then dumped in Indiana. There's
Speaker 2: an SD card to drawings poetry about death and killing,
Speaker 2: and some of those poetry kind of disturbing, uh in
Speaker 2: a big way. You may recall some of the words
Speaker 2: used by John Carter they found I think written over
Speaker 2: the top of like a doorframe. I slit your wrists
Speaker 2: with the keys to your heart deep down. I love her.
Speaker 2: You ought to kill her, but I love her. She
Speaker 2: must die. I can't kill her, Yes you can, No,
Speaker 2: you can't.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: And all these weird writings that certainly in the kate
Speaker 2: that he is the guy, and he confessed as such.
Speaker 2: And now Carter's mother suggests there's information about the case
Speaker 2: that hasn't been discussed publicly. What do you make of
Speaker 2: that claim? And is there anything that that would come
Speaker 2: out of that?
Speaker 3: Well, you know they they've said it before. Her family
Speaker 3: has ye know that there's her side of the you
Speaker 3: know John's side of the story, and we don't know everything.
Speaker 3: And here it is, that's the whole point of where
Speaker 3: we're at, is that speak up, tell your side of
Speaker 3: the story, be honest, be fair, that you know they
Speaker 3: they talk about not hearing the whole story. Well, they're
Speaker 3: the ones that's not talking about it, so yeah, you
Speaker 3: know it doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 2: Well, and the other thing too, is you know you
Speaker 2: got motive too, because the search warrants, I guess. And
Speaker 2: they interviewed to friend police did and the friend of
Speaker 2: Caitlin said she was unhappy with Carter's lifestyle, said he
Speaker 2: was using drugs heavily, he was into pornography, and she's
Speaker 2: I'm no longer attracted him because he's not going anywhere.
Speaker 2: She's going to school, it's going to go make something
Speaker 2: of her life, getting ready to move out of state
Speaker 2: to Colorado. I believe that that seems to indicate that,
Speaker 2: you know, it's almost ninety nine times out of one hundred,
Speaker 2: it's the person closest to you that's responsible. And this
Speaker 2: case that's absolutely.
Speaker 3: True, right. I mean, statistics are it's the spouse, the boyfriend,
Speaker 3: the one closest. And you know, I always kind of
Speaker 3: felt that Fairfield didn't seem to believe that and go
Speaker 3: after John, But here we are. You know, statistics again, Yes,
Speaker 3: there was the person closest to Caitlin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if anything, you haven't gotten any honest
Speaker 2: answers about her disappearance, what happened to Caitlin? And that's
Speaker 2: going to haunt you forever unless John does the right thing.
Speaker 2: But there's no indication he's going to do that. If
Speaker 2: the judge denies her to a recent January and Carter
Speaker 2: serves his full three years, they'll be out in less
Speaker 2: than what two years from now? Are you preparing for
Speaker 2: that reality?
Speaker 3: No, it is what it is. He's going to be
Speaker 3: out eventually someday, and I just hope and pray that
Speaker 3: our paths never crossed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I fire him. I'd probably get out of the
Speaker 2: state and try to go somewhere else, And just at
Speaker 2: that point it'll kind of be over for you because
Speaker 2: you'll never see him again, hopefully. But you know, thirteen
Speaker 2: years later, the healing process has been affected by the timeline,
Speaker 2: and and it's dragged out for so long, this whole thing,
Speaker 2: and now you're back in court to fight against earl
Speaker 2: the release. What do you want the judge to consider
Speaker 2: most about this decision he's going to make in January.
Speaker 3: Well, mostly just that you know John's attitude, he has
Speaker 3: not felt in a remorse. You know, if he gets
Speaker 3: away with murder quote unquote, or he gets ear the
Speaker 3: release and it's just a slap on the wrist. If
Speaker 3: he doesn't come clean with himself and his honesty in
Speaker 3: his own you know, minds and talks and anger, he's
Speaker 3: allowable to do it again and that. But that's what
Speaker 3: I'm afraid of. You know, he just doesn't he doesn't
Speaker 3: take any responsibility and aff that's the case, then he's
Speaker 3: liable to do it again. It's happened before.
Speaker 2: I believe he did. I not read. And you may
Speaker 2: know more about this than I do. I think you would.
Speaker 2: Is that wasn't he didn't have a fiance. He had
Speaker 2: a baby and like another one on the way when
Speaker 2: he went to jail or at prison.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's married now with two children.
Speaker 2: Wow. That always amazes me too. If your name's in
Speaker 2: the news or something like this, somehow you're attracted. This
Speaker 2: guy is the I don't know, like he's an innocent
Speaker 2: victim caught up on all this stuff. And you know,
Speaker 2: when the evidence has come out, it's pretty clear it
Speaker 2: was John Carter. He just won't cooperate with authorities or
Speaker 2: give you any relief. And now in January we'll revisit
Speaker 2: this again for the empteenth time, and John Carter trying
Speaker 2: to get out of jail early after fourteen months after
Speaker 2: murdering Caitlin Markham. Do you feel if he does, he's
Speaker 2: gotten away with it.
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think if he gets released without coming clean,
Speaker 3: then he got away with it. And you know, I
Speaker 3: sit here and think, just what is he going to
Speaker 3: try to say? What is he going to try to
Speaker 3: you know, his side of the story. And he's got,
Speaker 3: you know, six weeks to figure it out or write
Speaker 3: a story or you know, collaborate with whomever. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm just very curious to find out what he actually
Speaker 3: has to say, if anything.
Speaker 2: If he does, do you think he will do knowing
Speaker 2: what you know about John Carter.
Speaker 3: I think she'll say something. Yeah, because he wants out.
Speaker 3: I'll think he'll do anything to get out.
Speaker 2: Well, how much of us, say, did did with meeting
Speaker 2: with prosecutor Mike Moser on this one, It's entirely up
Speaker 2: to you whether or not you move forward with some
Speaker 2: sort of deal to get him out of prison. What
Speaker 2: would satisfy you? What would you have to hear?
Speaker 3: I'd have to I've got to have to hear exactly
Speaker 3: what he did, who and who. I would like him
Speaker 3: to name names. I mean, may be too late to
Speaker 3: prosecute because of the statute of limitations, but you know, I
Speaker 3: would like to know who so that they get looked
Speaker 3: at sideways when they walk by. I don't want to
Speaker 3: ruin anybody's reputation, but on this case, you ruin it yourself,
Speaker 3: and let's hear it.
Speaker 2: Do you believe there was someone else involved with us?
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 3: I don't think John could have moved the body himself.
Speaker 3: I don't think you had the smarts or you know,
Speaker 3: the strength or ability. I certainly do believe somebody else
Speaker 3: was involved.
Speaker 2: Maybe he'll name names. I don't know why you'd be
Speaker 2: loyal if you're in prison already. That's just the nature
Speaker 2: of being in prison, I guess. But sadly, now your
Speaker 2: your life is again up in the air for the
Speaker 2: next month a month and a half before this goes
Speaker 2: back to the judge, we'll continue to follow it.
Speaker 5: Dave.
Speaker 2: Prayers to you brother. I can't imagine what you're going
Speaker 2: through right now.
Speaker 3: All right, Thanks Scott, and I appreciate your continued support.
Speaker 2: All right, take care of my friend.
Speaker 5: Thank you all.
Speaker 2: Right, Dave Markham, that's the dad of Caitlin mark. I mean,
Speaker 2: I can't help but think getting a little emotional here
Speaker 2: thinking about my daughter and the holidays because we all
Speaker 2: enjoy spending time together as a family and what that
Speaker 2: would be like without someone that special at the table,
Speaker 2: especially under the circumstances in which Caitlin disappeared and then
Speaker 2: ten years later found out it was murder. And I
Speaker 2: think Dave Markham knew that all along. So count your
Speaker 2: blessings is thanksgiving right those around you you love, because
Speaker 2: you never know. Horrible Scott's Loan Show seven hundred wt
Speaker 2: weldo Scott's Loan back on seven hundred got a rough
Speaker 2: weekend sports wise, right unless you're a Savior Saint Xavier
Speaker 2: or Xavier University. Everything else just sucked. That was I
Speaker 2: think to me, that was right up there with the
Speaker 2: how long was that? Where you see and Xavier were
Speaker 2: in the NCAA tournament both lost, got bounced on the
Speaker 2: same day unexpectedly like that one really hurt this one.
Speaker 2: Yes this weekend was just like a long, painful goodbye.
Speaker 2: F Sea was terrible. Yesterday the Bengals close but no
Speaker 2: cigar as usual and What a weird world in which
Speaker 2: we live in which all of a sudden, now the
Speaker 2: defense is okay and the offense is terrible, And so
Speaker 2: goes the drama of the twenty twenty five campaign. I
Speaker 2: thought for sure, the way things were lining up, that
Speaker 2: Burrow would have started on yesterday. But still, I guess
Speaker 2: what I heard was he was still a little sore
Speaker 2: from practice this week, so they want to give him time.
Speaker 2: Presumably he's going to come back against Baltimore. But at
Speaker 2: this point you wonder, are you just risking the franchise
Speaker 2: if something happens to him in those two games or
Speaker 2: down the line. I mean, what are we playing for
Speaker 2: at this point? There's no way you're making the playoffs. Nonetheless,
Speaker 2: we've got other stuff going on, and not good news.
Speaker 2: Second time of the month, we've had a shooting in
Speaker 2: front of Privy on a l and all the victims
Speaker 2: are transported by private vehicles. Non life threatening urgents are emergency.
Speaker 2: But I guess they blocked out's charter tin and windows fired,
Speaker 2: A bunch of shots hit three people, and shots about
Speaker 2: of course went off. At this point, you know, I
Speaker 2: don't know how much more attention you can play pay
Speaker 2: to one place in that you have hired arm security.
Speaker 2: I guess in front of this thing. It's not a
Speaker 2: good look when all the security personnel in front are
Speaker 2: wearing kevlar and carrying weapons with them. Not a good
Speaker 2: look for that neighborhood because I know a number of
Speaker 2: people who invest down there, and Ryan guys being one
Speaker 2: of them of course, but other people with like airbnbs
Speaker 2: and like a ton of money in the line. And
Speaker 2: you know, now this is twice in a month, and
Speaker 2: the concerns are the loud music and the drinking on
Speaker 2: sidewalks and fighting, littering and gunplay. Now two shootings in
Speaker 2: the same month in front of Privy. At some point
Speaker 2: you know clearly there's an element that is attracted to
Speaker 2: that particular bar, not the kind of bar probably me
Speaker 2: and you go to because if I see someone who
Speaker 2: is wearing I don't know, a flak jacket and carrying
Speaker 2: a long gun, a long rifle or a side arm,
Speaker 2: or wearing bulletproof armor or tactical gear. I look at
Speaker 2: that and got I'm quite sure I want to go.
Speaker 2: And it's DIFFERENTY go to a football game or basketball
Speaker 2: you know you're gonna have armed security there. Obviously off
Speaker 2: duty cops and stuff like that, because it's such a
Speaker 2: big gathering. But yeah, just to talk about going to
Speaker 2: a bar, I look at it and go, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: not the risk of me, and some people yet are
Speaker 2: attracted there. And you wonder who would be attracted to
Speaker 2: go in an environment like that.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: I don't know if the city has the impetus to
Speaker 2: shut this place down, but you think with the state
Speaker 2: police involvement and everything else, that in electuor control, it'd
Speaker 2: be a rather easy thing to do. But we're just
Speaker 2: gonna sit around and wait till somebody gets killed, I guess,
Speaker 2: and go, yeah, we probably should shut this place down,
Speaker 2: all right. So we have this going on. I've been
Speaker 2: talking about healthcare because that's the big issue for us
Speaker 2: in America at this time, and just wondering what's going
Speaker 2: to happen with this deadline coming up end of the year.
Speaker 2: The ACA tax credits expire without the extension, about twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two million people who will be in trouble and
Speaker 2: not have that subsidy covering them. Trump's plan and the
Speaker 2: GOP plan is health savings account so you have an HSA,
Speaker 2: which is a coup as a credit cards account and
Speaker 2: instead of giving the money to the insured, the money
Speaker 2: would go right to your account. And the idea is,
Speaker 2: instead of giving the money to the insurance companies, you
Speaker 2: can on the free market, go out there and decide
Speaker 2: where you want to spend your money. Some of that
Speaker 2: may be involving a bronze level ACA plan and the
Speaker 2: federal money goes in if you're low, especially the lower
Speaker 2: income you go, and that covers all that stuff as well.
Speaker 2: Rick Scott is trying to label USS the Trump Health
Speaker 2: Freedom Account for premium payments and things like that. The
Speaker 2: opposition so far from the Democrats has been just not
Speaker 2: enough time to implement this before January first. And if
Speaker 2: you just extend this a year, we could sit down
Speaker 2: and hammer out the finer points of this. And if
Speaker 2: that's your plan, and you're gonna move forward with a grade,
Speaker 2: and I think you should extend that a year because
Speaker 2: too many people are going to fall off here in
Speaker 2: just about a month or so. But the idea is
Speaker 2: whether it's the ACA, which is all about subsidy subsidy subsidy,
Speaker 2: or this plan to pair hsas with brown level plans,
Speaker 2: or just have an HSA that the government would give
Speaker 2: you money that goes into you buy your own insurance.
Speaker 2: The question is is that a good alternative. Well, we
Speaker 2: know the ACA subsidies are. It's so here's an analogy
Speaker 2: for let me. I love analogies because I'm not particularly bright.
Speaker 2: It's just kind of a street smart but not not
Speaker 2: necessarily book smart. But it's kind of like if you
Speaker 2: gave someone a coupon. Here's instead of healthcare, let's say
Speaker 2: it's a it's for a restaurant. Okay, here's the money.
Speaker 2: You get a discount coup with the AC. It's a
Speaker 2: discount coup on an expensive restaurant. The HSA approach is
Speaker 2: like giving someone cash and saying, go figure out where
Speaker 2: you want to spend the money. It's a per diem.
Speaker 2: So that coupon would allow you to eat at a restaurant,
Speaker 2: which is the same as your comprehensive health insurance coverage.
Speaker 2: Take that coupon and go health insurance er, go get
Speaker 2: a meal somewhere. But the problem is the price of
Speaker 2: that menu keeps rising and rising and rising, and in
Speaker 2: the healthcare industry, the insurance company in the risk pool
Speaker 2: keep the restaurant running. The cash gives you freedom to
Speaker 2: choose maybe Okay, hey, I'm gonna buy groceries. I'll go
Speaker 2: to Kroger. I'll cook it home, which would be you know,
Speaker 2: basic go to I don't know, fast food or something
Speaker 2: like that. That's routine care. So the asser every day
Speaker 2: kind of like I'm gonna get a check up. It's like,
Speaker 2: you know, buying groceries. Okay, so yeah, all right, it's
Speaker 2: type out. I gotta afford that. Maybe you have an
Speaker 2: elective procedure, and now you've got to pay more for that.
Speaker 2: So that's like splourging out a good meal somewhere. But
Speaker 2: if all of a sudden, let's say I don't know,
Speaker 2: you lose a bet you got, you're like a football.
Speaker 2: You got to take like ten people taking your family
Speaker 2: out for Thanksgiving dinner or something like that. It's a
Speaker 2: five course meal at Boca. Let's say I was in
Speaker 2: your forced to have five course meal at Boca. You
Speaker 2: can't afford that, and that's kind of like cancer treatment
Speaker 2: or major surgery, and that cash is gonna rot pretty quick.
Speaker 2: So the problem is if enough people stop going to
Speaker 2: the restaurant because they're trying to stretch their cash, the
Speaker 2: restaurants will close down and that leaves people with pre
Speaker 2: existing conditions nowhere to eat at all. And so I
Speaker 2: guess the way I look at it is it doesn't
Speaker 2: seem to me like either of these things solve the
Speaker 2: real problem, and the problem is why is the restaurant
Speaker 2: charging one hundred dollars for a hamburger in the first place.
Speaker 2: Neither the certainly not the Democrats plan and the Obamacare
Speaker 2: subsidies answer that question, and neither is this. So what's
Speaker 2: the difference if I give them money to insurance companies
Speaker 2: or you give me the money and I give them
Speaker 2: to insurance companies. It's the fact. And the other fact
Speaker 2: of the matter is too. What's really not working with
Speaker 2: ACA is the fact that younger people are seeing their
Speaker 2: premiums or eyes and going, oh, I'm perfectly healthy. I'm
Speaker 2: in my twenties. Remember this whole scheme was highly dependent
Speaker 2: on younger people getting insurance, and more and more younger people,
Speaker 2: as they get squeezed, are saying, hey, listen, I'm perfectly healthy.
Speaker 2: I'm my twenties, maybe early thirties, whatever, and I'm not
Speaker 2: seeing the signs of living my life the way I
Speaker 2: live it, or just hereditary or just random illness causing me.
Speaker 2: I just can't justify this. I was talking to someone
Speaker 2: in their late twenties over the weekend said, yeah, I
Speaker 2: was on it for a while, and I just I
Speaker 2: don't see the point because I never go to the doctor,
Speaker 2: but i'm the premiums keep going up. I can't afford
Speaker 2: it for something I don't use. I'll throw And then
Speaker 2: what that means is God forbid. Something happens and you're sick,
Speaker 2: you show up to the hospital and you have to
Speaker 2: be treated. By law, it can't turn you away. And
Speaker 2: now who's going to pay that bill? You look at
Speaker 2: it and go, wow, I've got a eighty thousand dollars
Speaker 2: hospital bill and I'm being generous here for something that
Speaker 2: was outside of my controller. Maybe it was and accidents happened,
Speaker 2: I didn't have insurance. They've got to treat me. And
Speaker 2: now I've got a file for bankruptcy or I'm going
Speaker 2: to pay them I don't know, thirty bucks a month
Speaker 2: for the rest of my life. It's just not sustainable.
Speaker 2: And the more premiums go up, the more people, especially
Speaker 2: younger people who we need in the system because it's
Speaker 2: depending done the young feeding the old. They're just fading away,
Speaker 2: or give me the option go, well, I'm not going
Speaker 2: to pay for this anymore. Remember there's going to be
Speaker 2: a mandate that everyone had to pay for it, and
Speaker 2: there's a pushback on that rightly, So you know it's
Speaker 2: so you know, neither one of these ways. And then
Speaker 2: with the Republican plan with giving you the money in
Speaker 2: your own account, great, I can go shop on the market.
Speaker 2: But I guess if I went to my doctor for
Speaker 2: a checkup or a dental visit or something, that that's great.
Speaker 2: But the problem is when something catastrophic happens, if I
Speaker 2: get sick. I mean, I had a surgery on my foot,
Speaker 2: and you know, I hit my deductible for the year,
Speaker 2: but you're still talking thousands of dollars. Most people don't
Speaker 2: have that, and you know you have to have it
Speaker 2: done because you can't be limping around or you know,
Speaker 2: break a bone something like that. It's just it's just
Speaker 2: a horrible situation. So you know, the idea here that
Speaker 2: we're gonna here's our play. Our plan is to do
Speaker 2: the same thing, only it's going to look different. I
Speaker 2: just don't get what that's going to do for you.
Speaker 2: Why are the costs so freaking high in the first
Speaker 2: place is what we have to look at and then
Speaker 2: address the problem from there. But you're not going to
Speaker 2: do that in a month. That's for dang. Sure. I
Speaker 2: love the idea of giving you more direct control over
Speaker 2: your healthcare spending and removing the insurance company, your medias
Speaker 2: from the subsidy flow. And yeah, that could increase price
Speaker 2: transparency and shopping behavior and all those things, and it
Speaker 2: gets sort of bureaucracy. That's all well and good, but again,
Speaker 2: the structural issue is the fee for service payment models
Speaker 2: and centivized volume over value. There's the drug prices. Of course,
Speaker 2: there's negotiating there. We're seeing hospitals because of the model
Speaker 2: we have here consolidate to reduce competition, and there's no
Speaker 2: mechanism to control that. Growth is a real problem. It
Speaker 2: just continues to do more of the same, which is
Speaker 2: redistributing subsidies. It's just more subsidy. It's just kind of
Speaker 2: an old idea. And by the way, I think Medicare
Speaker 2: Part B jumps like almost ten percent. We're seeing employer
Speaker 2: coverage seeing its highest cost increases in the last fifteen
Speaker 2: years ago ours went up. And if you're going to
Speaker 2: make this truly affordable. You've got to talk about provider pricing,
Speaker 2: you talk about drug cost, administrative costs system, and efficiencies.
Speaker 2: This doesn't do any of that stuff. And so when
Speaker 2: I see that there's this quote unquote maga revolt going on.
Speaker 2: To some degree, we saw what happened with the Epstein
Speaker 2: file release, where the GOP leaders, other than what one
Speaker 2: one person said, we're gonna want the we want all
Speaker 2: this release, Trump had no choice to go, Okay, let's
Speaker 2: release these records. We saw what happened with Marjorie Taylor
Speaker 2: Green over the weekend on Friday announcing her resignation effective
Speaker 2: first of the year. Now, granted she does that right
Speaker 2: after her her pension kicks in, which is pretty good
Speaker 2: score for her and fireing that line of work. I'd
Speaker 2: probably do the same thing. But again, we're back to
Speaker 2: making America great again, and none of this is doing that.
Speaker 2: So she has legitimate beef, especially with someone she supported
Speaker 2: with her own time and effort out on the campaign
Speaker 2: trail for two terms, banging the drum for Donald Trump,
Speaker 2: and then the minute she's at the Epstein thing and
Speaker 2: some other other issues, of course, and now she's dead
Speaker 2: to him. So you wonder kind of like where this
Speaker 2: is all going. I think this is another thing. It's like, Hey,
Speaker 2: we're supposed to be fixing these great problems, which is
Speaker 2: why we elected you, and so far the economy isn't
Speaker 2: doing what we promised, and certainly when it comes to
Speaker 2: healthcare and other issues, this is a big plan. I mean,
Speaker 2: you've had fifteen years to come up with something, and
Speaker 2: the something is we're just going to continue to what
Speaker 2: we're doing. Why is healthcare so much so damn expensive?
Speaker 2: And neither side, neither Republicans nor Democrats want to address
Speaker 2: the real issue here, and that is huge part of
Speaker 2: the problem. And I think you're going to see another
Speaker 2: starting to field, another shift going on, going all right.
Speaker 2: I don't think Democrats will really have a plan. I
Speaker 2: don't know what kind of leadership they have. Maybe GAVI
Speaker 2: and do some I don't know. You've got socialists at
Speaker 2: the White House. I'm not sure what the hell's got.
Speaker 2: I don't know who to believe anymore. I think that's
Speaker 2: the problem.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: We'll get a time out in more to follow on
Speaker 2: this Monday morning, hopefully a short week for you, with
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving on the horizon. They can't take our turkey. With
Speaker 2: that we have, they can't take our turkey away. Pride
Speaker 2: that drumstick from my cold dead hands. Scott's loan seven
Speaker 2: hundred wi a Scott's loan, This is seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 2: So our big sports weekend, it was a big sports fail.
Speaker 2: That was horrible week. Evert everything lined up like this
Speaker 2: is going to be great, right, started out with so
Speaker 2: much hope and promise or at least one local team
Speaker 2: went anyway, And on Friday that would be uh Saint
Speaker 2: X beating Elder and what twenty thousand people at pay
Speaker 2: Corps on a chilly, misty, rainy kind of night. That's great.
Speaker 2: Great Atmosphogot. I was not there, but I know a
Speaker 2: number of people that were, and everyone's absolutely just blown
Speaker 2: away with how good it was because you know, the
Speaker 2: ribbon boards had if sant exit score, they had the
Speaker 2: blue and purple of the Elder, and it was just
Speaker 2: an action packed game, certainly in the first quarter was unreal.
Speaker 2: But also the fact that they had video and video
Speaker 2: replays up as well, and they went all in and
Speaker 2: had all the you know, usual scoreboard operator and behind
Speaker 2: the scenes teams working as they would a Bengals game.
Speaker 2: The bad takeaway of this is because we're so used
Speaker 2: to it watching the Bengals and NFL football, is that
Speaker 2: you have multiple replays, you have officials on the field,
Speaker 2: you have automatic reviews, booth reviews, and everything else right,
Speaker 2: so you want to get it right, even though there
Speaker 2: are at least a couple of plays a weekend looks
Speaker 2: like where they got it wrong. Nonetheless, it's we expect perfection,
Speaker 2: we demand perfection. The problem with that is when you
Speaker 2: apply that the technology to high school, it doesn't work
Speaker 2: because I was told there are a number of plays
Speaker 2: where you know, these are high school officials officials on
Speaker 2: an NFL field, they're not NFL officials. You have high
Speaker 2: school officials. They're going to get wrong. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: the way it used to be before technology. Right refereed
Speaker 2: below the call and get mad at the referee. But
Speaker 2: that was consistent whether it's NFL college or high school.
Speaker 2: And so now we have that collegiate, but especially the
Speaker 2: NFL expectation at a place like pay Corps where they're
Speaker 2: replaying they're showing the replace here from multiple angles and
Speaker 2: pretty clearly guys out of bounds, he dropped the ball whatever,
Speaker 2: and in high school you just you don't have the
Speaker 2: benefit of instant replay, and so the officials are being
Speaker 2: held to a much higher standard than out of control
Speaker 2: of and we're so used to like, oh, yeah, clearly
Speaker 2: he was juggling the bull, Clearly he was down. Clearly
Speaker 2: he was out of bounds.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And when they missed that call, you're like, well, what
Speaker 2: the hell, look at look at the score. But well
Speaker 2: we can't. We're not allowed to look at that and
Speaker 2: review it. That's how high school athletics work. So I
Speaker 2: don't if we should do that in the futures, have
Speaker 2: instant replay. But I'm a big proponent saying, listen, we
Speaker 2: ought to have more games during the season at the
Speaker 2: pay or that was awesome. I don't know if you
Speaker 2: can do what they did on Friday night, and what
Speaker 2: are you know what the break even point would be
Speaker 2: for an event like that, because let's face it, you
Speaker 2: can't have two you know, smaller schools. And obviously the
Speaker 2: passionate san X and Hellill bring it of course, you know,
Speaker 2: without saying when they meet up, it's always big, it's
Speaker 2: always a huge game. It's always happened. But I think
Speaker 2: the are the games that you would think of that
Speaker 2: certainly would rise to that level and you get huge
Speaker 2: crowds for it, so but then maybe consider for the
Speaker 2: next time you do it. It's like, yeah, maybe I
Speaker 2: don't know as much as the crowd would want to
Speaker 2: see the replays and the you know, the highlights, like
Speaker 2: that's probably not good for the game and officiating because
Speaker 2: it just great, say a lot more tension than you
Speaker 2: would have normally just saying just saying, uh. Coming up
Speaker 2: at ten, I was seven on the show Doctor Stephen
Speaker 2: Vegans is the medical director Hamilon County Public Health. Couple
Speaker 2: things going on right now. One of them would be RSV.
Speaker 2: The other flu. I don't know if you heard this.
Speaker 2: We're having a particularly difficult RSV season, especially for younger
Speaker 2: and older patients. But I'm a I religiously get the
Speaker 2: flu shot every year and I got one last year,
Speaker 2: and I still think I got the flu. Now. It
Speaker 2: was pretty I thought it was pretty bad because it
Speaker 2: was I was three days I was down, and normally
Speaker 2: that's like a week or so. So it does have
Speaker 2: an effect even if they miss and okay, well, you
Speaker 2: know once in a while we get that where the uh,
Speaker 2: the current dose and the current vaccine does not match
Speaker 2: up with what the current threat is because the nature
Speaker 2: of you know, developing it and seeing what's happening. Well,
Speaker 2: we won't get no more with vegans in the middle.
Speaker 2: But this flu season is supposed to be as bad,
Speaker 2: if not worse than last year, I believe it or not,
Speaker 2: because we have yet another mutation that happened after the
Speaker 2: vaccine came out was in production. So whether or not
Speaker 2: you get it or not, I mean, I'm I've had
Speaker 2: it for a long time. I haven't had a problem
Speaker 2: with it myself, and I wonder how many times I
Speaker 2: would would have gotten the flu. And if you have
Speaker 2: the flu, it's like it's a week, it's it's pretty bad.
Speaker 2: And last year I got it, I had a vaccine
Speaker 2: on it. Not only I guess conventional wisdom post COVID
Speaker 2: is that, well, see this is it doesn't work. This
Speaker 2: is why you shouldn't take it put that in your body.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I've been doing it for thirty years.
Speaker 2: Look at it and go, oh, only times I prevented it.
Speaker 2: But the other thing is it still gives you a
Speaker 2: little bit of protection against the virus. So you're saying, well, dummy,
Speaker 2: you just got sick last year and you had the shots,
Speaker 2: so it doesn't matter. Yeah, But I as bad as
Speaker 2: I felt, I couldn't I couldn't imagine how much worse
Speaker 2: it would be had I not get some sort of
Speaker 2: antigens in my bloodstream. That's my that's me. You may
Speaker 2: be different. I'll leave it at that. Vegans is next.
Speaker 2: He's the medical director Hamil County Public Health. This where
Speaker 2: things stand headed in the cold and flu season. Still
Speaker 2: not too late to get that flu shot. It might
Speaker 2: help you a little bit anyway, And we'll find out
Speaker 2: how much from the man himself right after news on
Speaker 2: the Home of the Best Bengals coverage seven hundred ww Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: Want to be an American?
Speaker 2: Kick it off the holiday season this week seven hundred
Speaker 2: WWT Scott's Loan Show. And of course with that is
Speaker 2: seeing friends and associates, coworkers, family and others. And that
Speaker 2: means to come in close contact. And it is also
Speaker 2: the start of the hey, I'm going to get six season.
Speaker 2: Some of u's already had a start on this one.
Speaker 2: Hamlin County is seeing a rise in pediatric RSV hospitalizations
Speaker 2: and usually early in the season. The other thing you
Speaker 2: need to know is that for the second consecutive year,
Speaker 2: it looks like this flu season is going to be
Speaker 2: pretty bad. That's because of a new mutation. On the
Speaker 2: show on seven hundred, WW is the medical director of
Speaker 2: Hamlin County Public Health, doctor Stephenvegans. Good morning, how are you?
Speaker 4: Thanks? Got good morning? How are you?
Speaker 2: I'm well today tomorrow?
Speaker 4: Not this link.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm well today tomorrow. I don't know. We'll find
Speaker 2: out here. Good to have you back, and I know
Speaker 2: you're really busy. Thanks for taking time out. So first
Speaker 2: of all, let's start with the RSV thing. We're seeing
Speaker 2: a rise number of hospitalizations unusually early this year. What's
Speaker 2: driving that.
Speaker 4: Well, Urcity is one of the big three restaurerts and
Speaker 4: dicial bars, COVID and influenza uh, and it disproportionately impacts kids,
Speaker 4: basically very young and so you know we've last year
Speaker 4: we saw a pretty significant RC season in children. This
Speaker 4: year we actually sat a little bit earlier. So typically
Speaker 4: all this season starts, you know, after October one, towards Thanksgiving.
Speaker 4: We started seeing cases in September. Why is that? It's
Speaker 4: probably just a combination of a bunch of stuff, kids
Speaker 4: being out and about as well as adults. So and
Speaker 4: there's a there's some now now some vaccines for mothers
Speaker 4: so that the kid doesn't get RCV as well as
Speaker 4: older adults. But yeah, it's just a part of the
Speaker 4: respiratory season. And we're saying it especially especially as we
Speaker 4: go into the holidays.
Speaker 2: Okay, it hits our elderly people just as likely to
Speaker 2: get RSV as a child.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so in fact it impacts the very young
Speaker 4: and the very old. And that's why these are these
Speaker 4: vaccines are now out for you know, age seventy five
Speaker 4: and upright, it's fifty enough. And so all the stuff
Speaker 4: that you find yourself in the hospital for even to
Speaker 4: some extent fluence restaports and fishial bars. And so you've
Speaker 4: got the young that may be impacted by the old,
Speaker 4: and the old that may be impacted by the young.
Speaker 4: And so the important thing is to wash your hands,
Speaker 4: do all that stuff. You're gonna let this hold you.
Speaker 4: But also if you are eligible, there's some vaccinations now
Speaker 4: in the last two years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how does that present? By the way, it's art
Speaker 2: because you know, I don't know what we called it
Speaker 2: back in the day, but it seems like a it's
Speaker 2: another one that there's no illnesses. You guys in Hamlin
Speaker 2: County Health made up. No, we didn't make it up.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: The key it vegans. It's all about marketing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well we just report right, but it's it's like
Speaker 4: a lower respiratory track, so you know the cold. Uh,
Speaker 4: the typical coronavirus is upper restory. Cause that.
Speaker 2: We're losing your cell you there, Doctor Stephen Fagin's into
Speaker 2: the lungs. Yes, oh we're losing her. We lost you
Speaker 2: there for a minute.
Speaker 5: Oh, sorry about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So viruses that can kind of get down in
Speaker 4: the lungs are the ones you got to kind of
Speaker 4: worry about. And so that's when you you know.
Speaker 2: Kind of cutting. Now you're cutting your cot. I'll pause
Speaker 2: for a second. Maybe you can get another bar on
Speaker 2: your phone. There, it's doctor Stephen Fagan's medical director, Hamlet
Speaker 2: County Public Health. With the cold weather now here, the
Speaker 2: wet weather, and of course being around family and friends
Speaker 2: and big crowds as we like to do during the holidays,
Speaker 2: and then being inside of course as an element of
Speaker 2: this thing too or see an RSV cases hospitalizations spike already.
Speaker 2: We know that it is deadly and children especially if
Speaker 2: it's left untreated. And we're talking about the warning signs,
Speaker 2: So are you saying, is it cough, is it fever?
Speaker 2: Is both of those?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's mostly fever as well as cough. And so
Speaker 4: you know, if you're very young, and they always tell
Speaker 4: you if you have a feed you need to go
Speaker 4: to hospital, especially if you're in that first month of life,
Speaker 4: and so those first six months are very susceptible and
Speaker 4: that that's the kind of the problem that you'll see.
Speaker 4: And you also that's why you have those bulbs to
Speaker 4: clear out the nose from all the congestion as well,
Speaker 4: so you can kind of reade that. Yeah, fever and
Speaker 4: cough is what the first start can be, gotcha.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm a big fan of the upper respiratory. Having
Speaker 2: one of those nasal rinses, the netty pop things work
Speaker 2: pretty much kind of gross, but especially in an allergy season.
Speaker 2: I use it not often, but pretty much you're around
Speaker 2: if I'm a little bit stuff, you just kind of
Speaker 2: clean the pipes out a little bit. So we have RSV,
Speaker 2: but we also have the flu too, so let's talk
Speaker 2: about that. I think that's the one that's going to
Speaker 2: affect a lot more people, it's a so explain how
Speaker 2: the flu vaccine works. People go, well, let's why I
Speaker 2: don't get the vaccines because it doesn't work. It's not
Speaker 2: worked last year, it's not going to work this year.
Speaker 2: Why can't they get this right? It'd be the typical
Speaker 2: question that gets asked, how do you answer that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, So the flu vaccine prevents you from having bad flu,
Speaker 4: finding yourself in the hospital or find yourself in the
Speaker 4: emergency department. The reason employers like you to get the
Speaker 4: flu vaccine. It also keeps you able to work, and
Speaker 4: so it doesn't decrease transmission, although it can some, but
Speaker 4: it doesn't really decreases just how bad the flu is
Speaker 4: when you get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And also we look at what is happening half
Speaker 2: a world away, right whereas now summer, you know, on
Speaker 2: the other half Australia, for example, we look and see
Speaker 2: what diseases they get in the winter and go, okay,
Speaker 2: that's going to be part of our annual vaccine here
Speaker 2: in America. And sometimes now two years in a row,
Speaker 2: we missed a mutation. In this case, it's called the
Speaker 2: H three and two. What is that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so we characterized by H or even gluten or
Speaker 4: in neuromenidase, and so it's the hema gluten that helps
Speaker 4: the virus get into the cell, and that's what you
Speaker 4: vaccinate against. The neuromenidase is what the TAMA flu and
Speaker 4: anti viarl's work against. And so we're always looking to
Speaker 4: see if the h part changes in arch of the
Speaker 4: typical year when they have to decide what's the vaccine
Speaker 4: going to have in it because it takes six months
Speaker 4: to produce, you look at the southern hemisphere like Australia
Speaker 4: to see what it's going to be like for up here,
Speaker 4: and so between summer and going into fall, it looks
Speaker 4: like yes, there was not just a small but a
Speaker 4: pretty significant change actually changing from one subclaim to another.
Speaker 4: As you mentioned previously, United Kingdom is seeing a significant
Speaker 4: flu season. Japan of the places saw a significant flu season,
Speaker 4: and we did have a big a three into flu
Speaker 4: season last year, one of the biggest months they had
Speaker 4: in five years here both locally and nationally. So who
Speaker 4: knows what's coming up? We'll see right right, are you
Speaker 4: what's the scoreboard saying right now? I know you have
Speaker 4: the tracker the gateway on your website, but does it
Speaker 4: look like it's going to be a particularly bad flu
Speaker 4: season again. Well, and actually what we're showing is a
Speaker 4: lower hostilization rate for influenza than the five year average
Speaker 4: would show. But the reason for that is that the
Speaker 4: High Department of Health change their data to something called
Speaker 4: Clinton Sinc October one, and so we're not sure. We
Speaker 4: think it's reporting lower than actual because if you go
Speaker 4: to actual hospital, we're higher than what we typically were
Speaker 4: over the five year average. So we have a little
Speaker 4: bit of data reporting issue. Subjectively, it looks like we're higher,
Speaker 4: but we are reporting slightly lower. Right now.
Speaker 2: The vaccine better for kids or adults.
Speaker 4: It's best for both six months and up. Go get one.
Speaker 4: It's about fifty percent effective, which doesn't sound like much,
Speaker 4: but it does a lot if you're feeling bad against hospitalization,
Speaker 4: er visits and having bad flues.
Speaker 2: Well, we see at some point a combined combined vaccination
Speaker 2: doctor Stephen Fagin's where you get the flu and an
Speaker 2: RSV in the same one.
Speaker 4: Now, probably not that there's a potential combined covid and
Speaker 4: flu vaccine, but I will tell you if you're an
Speaker 4: adult and you qualify, you can get RSC vaccine Influenza
Speaker 4: vaccine and COVID vaccine all at the same time. It'd
Speaker 4: be a good thing to do before the holiday.
Speaker 2: How we do it on covid By the way, we've
Speaker 2: talked about RSV and the flu. I mean, obviously COVID
Speaker 2: was major headlines five years ago but diminishing ever since.
Speaker 2: Is that like a false sense of security?
Speaker 4: Well still here, still puts feature in the hospital, not
Speaker 4: as much as it did. It's almost something that we
Speaker 4: kind of we kind of deal with. We do have
Speaker 4: some antivirals, just like flu. If you do have a
Speaker 4: positive COVID test, it's good to start the anti viral
Speaker 4: within two days of the first symptoms. But it's it's
Speaker 4: still here. It's one of the big three that we
Speaker 4: that we monitor.
Speaker 2: But it's not we're not seeing the fatality rich because
Speaker 2: we've all lot they heard immunity.
Speaker 4: We got some immunity less combination combination vaccine and prior
Speaker 4: evaccine and stuff, and it's mutating less fast than it
Speaker 4: used to, and so that's also well. And so we
Speaker 4: do have the experience and it's just one of the
Speaker 4: viruses now. We definitely definitely don't see the fatalities that
Speaker 4: we saw with this when it first started.
Speaker 2: Which we kind of do, but five years ago much different.
Speaker 2: We're in a much different spot at that time. How
Speaker 2: much of that immunity has to do with the vaccine
Speaker 2: versus natural resistance and the herd immunities I.
Speaker 4: Mentioned, Yeah, probably a combination of both. You know, the
Speaker 4: vaccine probably has its effectiveness like flu for the first
Speaker 4: three to six months, and then it gradually comes off.
Speaker 4: And so it's probably more previous affection immunity right now
Speaker 4: than vaccine immunity. But there is a good combination of both.
Speaker 4: And if you're a certain age or have a lot
Speaker 4: of comorbidities, you know, it's a good idea to go
Speaker 4: ahead and get that COVID vaccine to boost that.
Speaker 2: Is it like RSV in a way that the young
Speaker 2: and very old are the ones that really need to
Speaker 2: get accident.
Speaker 4: Inno sense, Yeah, you probably can drop that age range
Speaker 4: around fifty or so for COVID, but nonetheless that's exactly right. Yeah,
Speaker 4: the American pediatrics will say that from six months to
Speaker 4: two years, they're recommending the COVID vaccine for kids.
Speaker 2: I know that Texas is dealing with a very severe
Speaker 2: whooping cough upraiss like I think four times higher than
Speaker 2: the national average or something like that. Why Texas, And
Speaker 2: are you seeing any of those upticks in protests here
Speaker 2: in the Tri State?
Speaker 4: Yeah, we are and we continue to see that. And
Speaker 4: Protestis is a bacteria and it's a vaccination. That's what
Speaker 4: teed app tatness dipteria a cellar Protestas is vaccinated for.
Speaker 4: But the vaccine kind of wanes over time, and you
Speaker 4: do treat it with zpac. It's just from isen and
Speaker 4: if it's a reportable condition. So if we see a
Speaker 4: kid with protessas, we will actually treat other members of
Speaker 4: the family their home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because as a child, you might get this if
Speaker 2: you're not vaccinated or not on the schedule yet. But
Speaker 2: of course as you get older, you don't get vaccine
Speaker 2: as often, and so that makes older people where the
Speaker 2: vaccine has worn off, it affects them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it does. And you won't get the big whoop
Speaker 4: of a cough that you do when you're older that
Speaker 4: you know, you characteristically know that barking cough if you've
Speaker 4: ever heard it. But you do get pretty, you know,
Speaker 4: pretty sort of bress. You got enthizin or asthma or something.
Speaker 4: It can it can pass it even more. And so
Speaker 4: it's not about it I diea sometimes you get the t down.
Speaker 4: It is recommended if you go travel. That's a travel vaccine.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, there's a lot of things I get. I
Speaker 2: mean nice for when I travel abroad, that's for sure,
Speaker 2: because a lot of nafty things out the world. Doctor
Speaker 2: Stephen Figin's medical director Hamilt County Public Health. We're seeing
Speaker 2: spike and RSV cases here among the young and older people.
Speaker 2: But it's going to be a rough season for that
Speaker 2: as well as the flu because we have a mutuded
Speaker 2: strain that came out since the vaccine was developed six
Speaker 2: months ago. It's it's causing hospitalization rates to spike in
Speaker 2: the UK, Canada, Japan, Australia and the other half the world.
Speaker 2: And so expect a bad flu season. Not too late
Speaker 2: to get that flu vax or the RSV by the.
Speaker 4: Way, right, absolutely get it now. You can get them
Speaker 4: together and you know, the shared decision making it's discussed
Speaker 4: about talking with your pharmacists qualifies. The attestation of a
Speaker 4: you know, comorbidity to get one or more of the
Speaker 4: vaccines is a self attestation. And so if you feel
Speaker 4: like you really would benefit from that. Go to your
Speaker 4: local pharmacy and talk with them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that makes make sense, and it really you know,
Speaker 2: you can get right in these days too, because are
Speaker 2: we seeing a decrease in the number of people people
Speaker 2: getting vaccinations? What do you attribute that to?
Speaker 4: Well, all kinds of stuff and that the various hesitancy
Speaker 4: and things like that. But we still feel a fair
Speaker 4: bit of confidence in the vaccine. And you talk to
Speaker 4: people and like, do you want to get this vaccine?
Speaker 4: They may not want to, but they think other people should.
Speaker 4: And so you know, there's still a high confidence. And
Speaker 4: there are lower rates for a lot of reasons, and
Speaker 4: you probably talked about most of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it seems to me like all vacs. It's
Speaker 2: weird because we had COVID, and granted it was controversial.
Speaker 2: We developed the fast dressed and thing and people went
Speaker 2: and I get it. You know, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: put that in my body.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: I read, I read what was about and how you
Speaker 2: developed and said, Okay, I'm gonna I'd rather take my
Speaker 2: risk with a vaccine than take up my risk with
Speaker 2: COVID because I knew people actually got sick and died
Speaker 2: from COVID who were normally healthy people. You just don't
Speaker 2: know how your body is going to react. I had
Speaker 2: it a couple of times and I'm fine, but someone
Speaker 2: else may give us perfectly healthy and wind up passing.
Speaker 2: And this was in you know, twenty twenty, twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2: Since then, we've learned a lot about this. But it
Speaker 2: seems like because of that vaccine hesitate with COVID that's
Speaker 2: now spread to other vaccines. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 4: You know, good ass, and we're actually last year we
Speaker 4: dropped alow fifty percent for pediatric influenza vaccination. Forty nine
Speaker 4: percent pediatric kids got vackcin to against influenza. In addition
Speaker 4: to the biggest influenza season we had last year, there
Speaker 4: were two hundred and eighty seven pediatric deaths eighty seven.
Speaker 4: That's the highest in two thousand and four, and half
Speaker 4: of those kids were totally healthy, had nothing else going on.
Speaker 4: I ended up dying from the flu. So it's still
Speaker 4: there and it's still important to get the vaccine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, gotcha. When you guys monitor, do you put all
Speaker 2: this stuff on your dashboard or the Hamlet County Public
Speaker 2: Health website? What the data is it's interesting how you
Speaker 2: collect that. Could you take us through where those numbers
Speaker 2: come from and how you get your accuracy?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so for rest of ours is it's hospitalization. So
Speaker 4: that's the one thing you clearly know if you're in
Speaker 4: the hospital and you have a positive test, you definitely
Speaker 4: know you have it. And so it's the one. So
Speaker 4: it's for RC COVID influenza that data Hall hospitals are
Speaker 4: required to report and they report up electronically through the
Speaker 4: Ohio Department of Health and we get that data from
Speaker 4: the High Department of Health and that's how we get that.
Speaker 4: We report it locally report Hambleton County south Ofst. Ohio
Speaker 4: as you see on the website, but it does come
Speaker 4: through ODH, which is anytime there's a glitch or anything
Speaker 4: in that reporting, there's a delay or possibly an underreporting
Speaker 4: of the numbers. We think that's happening now for this month,
Speaker 4: and we're working to reconcile that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I gotcha. The other thing too is you guys
Speaker 2: look at wastewater treatment plants.
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, you do, and so here locally there's three
Speaker 4: wastewater plants that are monitoring mostly for COVID nationally to
Speaker 4: monitor flud polio as well as RSV. The thing about
Speaker 4: RSV SCOTT is, for the most part it's the kids
Speaker 4: that shed who are putting it in a diaper, who
Speaker 4: doesn't go to the wastewater. So it's a little bit
Speaker 4: of underreporting. But you could, you know, get some trend
Speaker 4: from adult RSC. We don't measure RSC locally though.
Speaker 2: That's incredible how granular you can get into the details
Speaker 2: what's in our wastewater right?
Speaker 4: Well, and there is one case of polio not here
Speaker 4: but in New York, and it picks it up in
Speaker 4: the wastewater. It is an absolutely amazing technology.
Speaker 2: How do you know it's uh, how do you pick
Speaker 2: out one case out of some water?
Speaker 4: Well, there had to be more than one case, And
Speaker 4: so you pick up the little sipe in the DNA.
Speaker 4: Not only did they know it was polio, they know
Speaker 4: it was wild type meaning not vaccine associated polio, which
Speaker 4: is amazing.
Speaker 2: That is incredible. How much there's just gotta be so
Speaker 2: much information out there that's noise. On top of if
Speaker 2: you're getting down the world a couple of cases of
Speaker 2: polio and a sample of wastewater, there's gonna be a
Speaker 2: ton of other interesting data you pull out of there.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean, but Pablo is very unique DNA
Speaker 4: and it's like CSI, you know, in terms of DNA testing,
Speaker 4: and it's amazing. The guys that do this are super
Speaker 4: geeks and they really go on and on about it.
Speaker 2: I bet. Yeah. It's always a fascinating dinner discussion when
Speaker 2: the when the guys who look through wastewater and the cowboy,
Speaker 2: it makes me want to order a second round.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: Doctor Stephen Fagin's is here. He is a medical director
Speaker 2: Hamlin County Public Health. Expect a bigger RSV season, a
Speaker 2: bigger flu season as well. COVID numbers should be about
Speaker 2: the same we expect or more.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so far, so good. Probably a little uptick, you know,
Speaker 4: around Christmas or so. That's why we started basically looking
Speaker 4: at the big three altogether respiratory virus season and what
Speaker 4: is the impact, mostly around hospitalizations, and mostly so we
Speaker 4: can know how many beds do we need or how
Speaker 4: much capacity do we need as a region.
Speaker 2: Gotcha, what's going to keep you awake at night here
Speaker 2: for the next few months this season?
Speaker 4: You know everything? God, but I do. I am concerned
Speaker 4: about this shift in subclade for a three into for
Speaker 4: influenza and just what that might mean, because you know
Speaker 4: that's they call it vaccine evasion, which means that our
Speaker 4: immune invasion, so previous immunity or vaccine immunity you know,
Speaker 4: isn't doesn't work nearly as well. When that human glutin
Speaker 4: thing really changes, that could make a big difference. And
Speaker 4: we could see an even more significant flu season this
Speaker 4: year than we did last year. And the vaccine still works.
Speaker 4: Vaccine still helps. It may not be, you know, as
Speaker 4: much as as it typically might, but it definitely does
Speaker 4: health as well as covery calls wash your hands and
Speaker 4: do what your grandmother told me to do.
Speaker 2: And advice is still to wash your damn hands and
Speaker 2: cover your mouth when you sneek. Yeah, it's it's I
Speaker 2: mentioned before you came on and I got the flu
Speaker 2: last year. I have to get the vaccine every season,
Speaker 2: and I hit me and somebody said, hey, you know, Slan,
Speaker 2: why are you getting the vaccine? It doesn't work. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, but if I was, if I've got that
Speaker 2: crappy for three days, I could have I'd probably been
Speaker 2: in the hospital if I didn't have the vaccine to
Speaker 2: at least help my body deal with us. So you
Speaker 2: even get you do get some protection and some of
Speaker 2: those proteins in your body. Even if you they wind
Speaker 2: up miss guessing and we have some sort of mutation
Speaker 2: like we have this year.
Speaker 4: Right, oh my gosh. Yeah, And then you know, the
Speaker 4: flu vaccine really kind of only works for about five
Speaker 4: to six months. That's why you get one every year.
Speaker 4: That's why you kind of time it so that you
Speaker 4: sort of you know, certainly two weeks before the holiday.
Speaker 4: He's got two weeks to have the impact. And it
Speaker 4: definitely works, and get one every year. There's a medicine
Speaker 4: called him Solues that also work, but you have to
Speaker 4: take it within forty hours of the start of symptoms.
Speaker 4: But you always know when flu stars it is a
Speaker 4: sudden fever, feeling bad. You know time that that occurred,
Speaker 4: so it's a little bit easier to time the medication, gotcha. Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know people go, oh yeah, the stomach flu for
Speaker 2: a day, Well, that's not the flu. That's something entirely gasting, rise,
Speaker 2: something entirely different. You have the flu. You know you
Speaker 2: had the flu. It's a good solid week of feeling
Speaker 2: a feeling like you've been over by a school bus.
Speaker 4: Well, and there is a virus called neuro virus the
Speaker 4: winter vomiting signal, and so that's another varus you see
Speaker 4: in the winter. And we had a pretty significant neauro
Speaker 4: virus season last year as well. But that's upper GI
Speaker 4: just like up restory upper gif. You're vomiting. You know,
Speaker 4: it's irritating the stomach. You haven diary, you know it's
Speaker 4: irritating the colon.
Speaker 2: Right right, all right, useful information and this is why
Speaker 2: we do it at a ten ten thirty because it's
Speaker 2: far enough between breakfast and lunch is to not nausey
Speaker 2: your further Dutch. Stephen Fagan's medical director Hamlin County Public Health.
Speaker 2: Always appreciate you coming on. Thanks for the time.
Speaker 4: Thank you, scot Care.
Speaker 2: All right, well there you go. You got your information
Speaker 2: for Warner's four Arms, Scott's Loan Show with News and
Speaker 2: three on seven hundred WW. Everyone needs help every now
Speaker 2: and then, and she's here to help us get our
Speaker 2: heads right.
Speaker 4: This is Mental Health Monday with mental health expert Julie Hattershire.
Speaker 2: All right, the holidays are coming up. We start with Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2: You know what that means. That means fighting, That means
Speaker 2: pies getting thrown across the room, ceilings full of mashed potatoes,
Speaker 2: picking pieces of cranberry out of the paintings on the wall,
Speaker 2: clocks that are filled with the guts of turkeys because
Speaker 2: people just don't get along, damn it. It makes you
Speaker 2: want to eat Thanksgiving dinner by yourself. Julie hattershre welcome back,
Speaker 2: are you?
Speaker 4: I'm fine.
Speaker 6: I'm laughing at what you just said. That sounds like
Speaker 6: a middle school food fight.
Speaker 2: Probably. I've bet there's plenty of households at the vault
Speaker 2: into that. It's like an episode of Landman. Every time
Speaker 2: they sit down they eat, the food's getting thrown around.
Speaker 2: It's unbelievable, But that's true for a lot though. It's like, Man,
Speaker 2: you get around relatives you only see maybe during the holidays,
Speaker 2: maybe once a year or maybe twice a year, and
Speaker 2: there's a sense of dread out there. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of people that dread Thanksgiving or Christmas.
Speaker 7: There are a lot of people, yeah, yeah, that dread
Speaker 7: the holidays for that very reason.
Speaker 8: People they don't.
Speaker 7: See very often and don't actually have a lot in
Speaker 7: common with or even enjoy the company of that they
Speaker 7: have to.
Speaker 8: Spend time with.
Speaker 4: It can be hard.
Speaker 2: What drives that.
Speaker 7: Well, I mean, you know you choose your friends, right,
Speaker 7: You don't choose your coworkers, and you don't choose your family,
Speaker 7: but you do choose people to spend time with.
Speaker 6: And so if family, if family are the people.
Speaker 7: You're spending the holidays with, and you don't you don't
Speaker 7: like them, you don't have a lot in common with them,
Speaker 7: They find.
Speaker 6: You annoying, you find them annoying.
Speaker 8: It can be really it can.
Speaker 7: Cause this sense of dread and taste for the holidays
Speaker 7: make you want to spend them by yourself, maybe because
Speaker 7: that's a little bit easier than going home wherever you're
Speaker 7: going for the family holiday.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I always love it when you know, I don't know,
Speaker 2: you get one of your cousins of sech extended family
Speaker 2: in there and it's at some point, you know, she's
Speaker 2: going to bring about the topic of a genocide in Gaza,
Speaker 2: which is always uplifting holiday talk.
Speaker 7: That sound Yeah, isn't it lovely that people will do
Speaker 7: that at the holidays with everybody around. So if you
Speaker 7: have people like that who you know are going to
Speaker 7: want to talk about things you don't want to talk about,
Speaker 7: doing a little prep work ahead of time can be
Speaker 7: really really helpful for you.
Speaker 6: So the first thing that.
Speaker 7: I recommend people do is you're probably going to know
Speaker 7: who those people are at the event who are likely
Speaker 7: to go places conversationally that you don't want to go,
Speaker 7: unless it's everybody, in which case you.
Speaker 8: Might want to sit this one out, but there are.
Speaker 6: Probably a few people who are likely to do that.
Speaker 7: I recommend that you prep a few alternative topics of
Speaker 7: conversation specific to each one of those people, and even
Speaker 7: maybe write them down and stick them in in a
Speaker 7: card in your back pocket or whatever that you can
Speaker 7: go to the restroom and figure out, Okay, what am
Speaker 7: I going to talk to Aunt Susie about because she's
Speaker 7: going off on politics again.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, they just renovated their kitchen.
Speaker 8: Let me ask her about that when I get back
Speaker 8: out there.
Speaker 7: So you can prep some pivot topics ahead of time
Speaker 7: specific to the person so that you don't feel like
Speaker 7: you're caught in a trap.
Speaker 8: You can you have a way out, you have a
Speaker 8: door out.
Speaker 2: Okay, God, it makes sense. I you know, I was
Speaker 2: just thinking. It's just talked about this too. There's a
Speaker 2: great marketing opportunity, you know, if if we ever want
Speaker 2: to get cigarette smoking back in the fold, this is
Speaker 2: a good time to take it up because you just go, hey, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go grab a smoke and it Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go and just and just stand out there for
Speaker 2: you know, even like fake cigarettes they sell the good
Speaker 2: fake ones on looks like you're burning a you know,
Speaker 2: you're burning a dart, and you know it's okay, and
Speaker 2: people don't want to be around that they see the smoke.
Speaker 2: I'm my god, I can just keep going out there
Speaker 2: doing that. Take your little you know, five ten minute break.
Speaker 6: I love that idea.
Speaker 7: I have clients who have a very politically divided family
Speaker 7: and this year, the rule is you can talk politics
Speaker 7: at Thanksgiving, but you have to do it outside. And
Speaker 7: they live in a very cold part of the country, and.
Speaker 8: So they you can talk politics, but you have.
Speaker 7: To talk them outside of the house. You can't talk
Speaker 7: about them in the house. And so anybody who feels
Speaker 7: compelled to do that has to go stand out in
Speaker 7: the cold.
Speaker 2: That's a good way to do it. You get you
Speaker 2: get in time out outdoor time out is what's happening.
Speaker 7: I love that exactly, That's exactly what you get and
Speaker 7: it's going to shorten the time you do it because
Speaker 7: it's going to be really chilly and windy at night.
Speaker 7: And so they that's how they've decided to do it.
Speaker 8: Last year they try to know politics Thanksgiving. That didn't work.
Speaker 6: This year, they say.
Speaker 7: Politics are fine, but you have to do it outside
Speaker 7: of the house.
Speaker 6: And I will be curious to see how that goes.
Speaker 2: Is that the big one from your house, most peoples,
Speaker 2: is the big one? Politics? People are talking well, I
Speaker 2: would say just I think we're all, even those on
Speaker 2: the extreme side of it, they seem would you seem
Speaker 2: like we're so exhausted and frustrated that I don't know
Speaker 2: if it's going to be as bad as it's been
Speaker 2: in years past.
Speaker 7: I wonder about that too, because I think we've all
Speaker 7: kind of realized that we're not going to change the
Speaker 7: opinions of people who aren't flexible. Right, no matter which
Speaker 7: side of the political spectrum you're on, if you've got
Speaker 7: somebody who's on the very far other side, nothing you
Speaker 7: can say or do is going to change their perspective
Speaker 7: or their mind. If you've got people who are more centrist,
Speaker 7: and you can have a more reasoned conversation that that
Speaker 7: might be worth doing if you feel like they're reasonable
Speaker 7: people and you can have a nuanced conversation.
Speaker 6: But if you are on one end of these other
Speaker 6: people are.
Speaker 7: On the other end, nobody's going to change your mind
Speaker 7: and you're not going to change theirs.
Speaker 6: So let's move on to other things.
Speaker 7: I think there are a lot of people who are
Speaker 7: pragmatic like that.
Speaker 6: I also think there are a lot of people who
Speaker 6: are really.
Speaker 7: Staunchly grounded in their beliefs and feel like it is
Speaker 7: not only their right but their responsibility to try to
Speaker 7: convert others. So I do think politics is one. I mean,
Speaker 7: there are.
Speaker 8: All the usual topics. Religion is another one. What's going on.
Speaker 7: With your kids, how they're ruining their own lives is
Speaker 7: another one. There are so many hot topics for people.
Speaker 7: It varies by family, and so just knowing what yours
Speaker 7: are and what your particular sensitive spots are and then
Speaker 7: having some strategies if those come up, to be able
Speaker 7: to manage them effectively, I think is the best you
Speaker 7: can do.
Speaker 2: Julie Hattish share our licensed mental health therapist on The
Speaker 2: Scot's Loan Show on seven hundred wo to a mental
Speaker 2: health Monday, and we're talking about the looming Thanksgiving holiday,
Speaker 2: which is great for all of us, most of us anyway,
Speaker 2: but sometimes you get family members over extended family, and
Speaker 2: it can get a little hairy when it comes to conversations.
Speaker 2: How do you steer yourself out of these things? Why
Speaker 2: can't we just go listen? You know, I'm really not interested.
Speaker 2: It seems like the easiest thing to do.
Speaker 7: You absolutely can, and sometimes people will respect that, and
Speaker 7: sometimes they won't. So, you know, I'm thinking specifically of
Speaker 7: a family I know where one of the kids is
Speaker 7: not performing up to the grandparents expect and the grandparents.
Speaker 6: Continually ask the kid, so, what are you doing with
Speaker 6: your life?
Speaker 8: Why aren't you doing anything different? Why aren't you doing
Speaker 8: this or that?
Speaker 7: And the kid tries, well young adult not.
Speaker 6: Kids, tries to say, look, you know.
Speaker 7: I don't want to talk about this. I don't want
Speaker 7: to talk about this. I don't want to talk about this,
Speaker 7: and they just don't listen. They keep hounding. So you
Speaker 7: can try not to attend every drama you're invited to,
Speaker 7: but sometimes people will continue.
Speaker 8: To hound you.
Speaker 6: So in that instance, it can be really good.
Speaker 7: To have an ally on your side and have a
Speaker 7: look or a signal or a code word that says, hey,
Speaker 7: come in and rescue me. And have that person come
Speaker 7: in and redirect the conversation or pull you away to
Speaker 7: help in the kitchen, or take you outside for a
Speaker 7: walk or whatever. Have somebody who can help direct you
Speaker 7: if you're not able to manage the conversation on your own.
Speaker 2: Another opportunity there is hire someone like me to come
Speaker 2: to your Thanksgiving and be that guy. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Problem is, shut the hell up. Nobody wants to hear
Speaker 2: your crab carl.
Speaker 6: You totally could, and you get free food.
Speaker 2: Out of it. So what's your deal that to win
Speaker 2: all around everybody?
Speaker 6: You are so direct. Everybody wins because you were so directed.
Speaker 6: Just say no, I'm not having that conversation.
Speaker 2: Leave thee he answer the question quite pressing them. We'll
Speaker 2: turn it around on you. You think you should be
Speaker 2: so taught and social security right now, I think you're
Speaker 2: a little younger. What do you you know, get on
Speaker 2: their mouth, you take it out your medication exactly. Let's
Speaker 2: jump on you really clear and.
Speaker 7: Direct about that, and other people have a hard time
Speaker 7: being that clear and direct, and sometimes people don't stop
Speaker 7: when you tell them to stop. So, you know, being
Speaker 7: able to escape, having a rescue and an exit strategy
Speaker 7: can be really helpful for folks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and answer, now, how does the supply when it
Speaker 2: comes to let's say coworkers, Because we have time in
Speaker 2: the year we're going to do in holiday parties and
Speaker 2: you know there's generally complimentary drinks and beverages, and you
Speaker 2: get cornered and that that that's a whole different model
Speaker 2: because you see these people all the time, as opposed
Speaker 2: to maybe a certain family member at least once a year.
Speaker 7: Right, right, right, right, So in that case, it can
Speaker 7: be really helpful to have a way of saying that
Speaker 7: you disagree.
Speaker 8: That isn't your wrong.
Speaker 6: You can say I see it differently, or.
Speaker 8: My experience has not been that.
Speaker 6: My experience has been different than that, or in my.
Speaker 8: World view, it looks a little different. So you can
Speaker 8: just pivot and say I see it differently. And then again, it.
Speaker 7: Can really be helpful to have those topics of conversation
Speaker 7: to change it to So what are your family doing
Speaker 7: for the holidays? Do you celebrate with friends, do you travel,
Speaker 7: what do you do? You can change the topic to
Speaker 7: something different really deftly and steer it away.
Speaker 6: And then again, if.
Speaker 7: It's coworkers, you can always just excuse yourself, go talk
Speaker 7: to somebody else, Go refresh your drink, Go take a
Speaker 7: smoke break, even if you actually don't smoke, right, Go
Speaker 7: say oh, I see so and so leaving. I need
Speaker 7: to say goodbye to them before they go, oh, there's Joe.
Speaker 7: I've been trying to button hole them about this project.
Speaker 7: I want to see if I can get ten minutes
Speaker 7: next week. You can find a way to remove yourself
Speaker 7: and most people will be pretty gracious about that. Not everybody,
Speaker 7: but most people will be pretty gracious about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right. And then are some people that just
Speaker 2: don't get the message and they continue. That's a whole
Speaker 2: other topic entirely.
Speaker 1: Well, there are.
Speaker 6: People who don't get the message and they just continue.
Speaker 7: And that's when sometimes you have to get more direct
Speaker 7: and you have to say, look, I'm interested in having
Speaker 7: a good time tonight or spending time with friends and family.
Speaker 7: This is not a topic I want to get into.
Speaker 7: I really don't want to talk about this right now,
Speaker 7: or I don't want to talk about this with you
Speaker 7: right now, or I don't want to talk about this
Speaker 7: ever again.
Speaker 8: In the history of ever.
Speaker 7: You can say any of those things and then just
Speaker 7: refuse to engage, and you can remove yourself. You can say, look,
Speaker 7: I get that this is important to you, but I
Speaker 7: don't want to go here, and you go someplace else
Speaker 7: and you talk to somebody else, or you remove yourself
Speaker 7: from the conversation. If you're seated at a table, you
Speaker 7: turn to the person to your left, if the person
Speaker 7: do your right won't leave you alone, or you engage
Speaker 7: the person across the table from you, or you actually
Speaker 7: get up and move your seat, so you just stop
Speaker 7: the conversation and focus on something else. And yes, that
Speaker 7: could be seen as rude, but if you use it
Speaker 7: as the last resort when the other person won't stop
Speaker 7: bugging you, then they're actually the ones being rude and
Speaker 7: you're actually the one being polite and holding a solid boundary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you can do that, I think most people
Speaker 2: just suffer on their minds going God help me, and
Speaker 2: you know there's no help to be had at that point.
Speaker 2: You just nod your head and okay, well that's good, okay,
Speaker 2: and they just keep going and going. What about going
Speaker 2: to a family dinner, a Thanksgiving, Christmas? I'm going to
Speaker 2: applies for all these things where you know that there's
Speaker 2: like I don't know somebody's going to bring up bring
Speaker 2: up a past grievance, because it happens every year.
Speaker 7: It does absolutely, So first of all, maybe you don't
Speaker 7: need to engage in that conversation.
Speaker 6: Maybe it has nothing to do with you.
Speaker 7: Maybe they bring up a past grievance with somebody else
Speaker 7: and you can just mentally check out. If it does
Speaker 7: have something to do with you, you can say, listen,
Speaker 7: I will happily discuss this with you, but not hearing now,
Speaker 7: Let's set a time that we can talk about it later.
Speaker 7: Or I feel like we've covered this in years past.
Speaker 7: I don't feel like there's any more to say, and
Speaker 7: I'm not interested in discussing it with you anymore. And again,
Speaker 7: remove yourself from the situation.
Speaker 6: It's really about holding.
Speaker 7: Your own personal boundaries, not being the person who brings
Speaker 7: up the past grievance and ruins the party, but holding
Speaker 7: your own boundaries and having some escape strategies if you
Speaker 7: need them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, So we've covered those angles in particular.
Speaker 2: Julie Hatter share a relative to getting together and uncomfortable
Speaker 2: conversations at what point, should you just go, Okay, I'm
Speaker 2: out of here. It's always a bad look when you start.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm storming off, but it's like, okay, we're leaving.
Speaker 7: Well if you are, if you are unable to have
Speaker 7: a useful, worthwhile conversation with anybody at the event, Let's
Speaker 7: say you are the only person who is not believing
Speaker 7: a particular way or engaging in a particular conversation, and
Speaker 7: you don't want to. If it starts to get antagonistic,
Speaker 7: if you start to feel yourself getting in antagonistic and
Speaker 7: you can't back yourself down into a place of peace
Speaker 7: and calm, If it looks like things are going sideways
Speaker 7: and there doesn't seem to be any other avenue to explore,
Speaker 7: then you can say, look, I think it's time for
Speaker 7: us to go. This isn't going in a direction that
Speaker 7: I want for us or for you. I don't want
Speaker 7: anybody's holiday to be.
Speaker 8: Ruined, yours or hours. It's time for us to go.
Speaker 7: And you make your exit, you politely, as politely as
Speaker 7: you can. If you're the one who's really worked up,
Speaker 7: you politely say I'm stepping out, and you do. We
Speaker 7: hope that's the last resort, But that's also a really
Speaker 7: clear consequence. And actions have consequences. So if you are
Speaker 7: the person who's been trying to say no, I don't
Speaker 7: want to know, I don't want to know, I don't
Speaker 7: want to and the others aren't listening, then a consequence
Speaker 7: of that is you remove yourself and they don't get
Speaker 7: to talk to you anymore. They don't have you at
Speaker 7: their party or their dinner. Actions have consequences. Okay, we
Speaker 7: hope that that's the last resort.
Speaker 2: What does it say and how do you addrest the
Speaker 2: person who simply doesn't get the message you don't want
Speaker 2: to have this conversation. If they just continue to pester people,
Speaker 2: is it up to the host to throw them out?
Speaker 2: What do you do if it's a relative and.
Speaker 7: The relatives I think I think the host should definitely
Speaker 7: set some expectations. And the host is the one with
Speaker 7: a certain kind of power.
Speaker 8: I'm not saying all the power, because.
Speaker 7: Families are power dynamic, interesting, but the host has a
Speaker 7: certain kind of power because you are at their home
Speaker 7: and the host can say, hey, listen, look, Aunt, Susie,
Speaker 7: Uncle Joe, no politics tonight, please, I've asked you, I'm
Speaker 7: going to remind you please no politics tonight. You're making
Speaker 7: making people uncomfortable, and the host can then ask those
Speaker 7: offending parties if they're not paying attention to leave. That
Speaker 7: would be a really big thing to do, though, I
Speaker 7: mean that would take a lot of That would take
Speaker 7: a lot of gumption on somebody's part to ask folks.
Speaker 2: But a church bells? Are you kidding me? That'd be
Speaker 2: awesome exactly.
Speaker 7: But if they're being that disruptive to everybody else's holiday
Speaker 7: and there's nothing that anybody can think or figure out
Speaker 7: to do to back them down and to make that better,
Speaker 7: it is an option. I would say it's the last
Speaker 7: resort option, but it is an option available to say, look,
Speaker 7: I'm sorry, you're gonna have to ask you to leave
Speaker 7: because everybody.
Speaker 6: Else is trying to enjoy themselves when you're making it impossible.
Speaker 2: That's a job for you, a holiday bouncer. How about that?
Speaker 7: You you should hire yourself out to be the truth teller,
Speaker 7: the stopper of all awkward conversations, and the enforcer the muscle.
Speaker 6: If things go sideways.
Speaker 7: And you get free food and you get paid for.
Speaker 6: It, and all you do is miss a holiday with
Speaker 6: your own family.
Speaker 2: You shut up here and this pie is horrible, by
Speaker 2: the way. Oh yeah, this is what a business model
Speaker 2: right there, Just for a good food critic, right right, right, roll.
Speaker 2: Keep in mind that's smoking kills, but it also can
Speaker 2: get you out of uncomfortable situations during the holidays. Just
Speaker 2: something enough.
Speaker 7: Absolutely, you can also pretend to take a call.
Speaker 8: You don't have to smoke.
Speaker 7: You can also pretend to take a call and move
Speaker 7: to a different room.
Speaker 2: You know, my stocking a carton of Marlborough's. She's Julie
Speaker 2: hattersh heare licensed metal health expert at that be Connected
Speaker 2: dot care. Hey, Juliet be Connected dot care. She jumps
Speaker 2: in every Monday morning and mental health Monday here on
Speaker 2: the Scott Sloan Show. We'll talk again next week. Have
Speaker 2: a wonderful holiday. Okay, thanks you, I appreciate you. We
Speaker 2: got to time out in and when a return to
Speaker 2: the show. We have all sorts of stuff, believe it
Speaker 2: or not, happened in Washington. We have the Supreme Court
Speaker 2: on terrafs for this matter. It looks like in some
Speaker 2: of these things go okay, well, what's the point of
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court going to wind up ruling that terrifs
Speaker 2: are illegal and what are the consequences of that too
Speaker 2: as we head in the holiday shopping season here too,
Speaker 2: when we're paying a little bit more for everything. It's
Speaker 2: all in play in the Scott's Loan Show seven hundred WWD.
Speaker 2: Since now do you want to.
Speaker 1: Be an American idiot?
Speaker 2: Sloaney back on seven hundred WLW. It is the International
Speaker 2: Emergency Economic Powers Act, the old i e EPA boring
Speaker 2: but important. It's normal reserved for national security crisises to
Speaker 2: impose widespread tariffs, and of course this has let a
Speaker 2: constitutional showdown a fire. Some ninety billion dollars has been
Speaker 2: collected under the t AFS under Trump and China. Of
Speaker 2: course they're easing their measures, so in that case it
Speaker 2: looks like it might be working. But it's before the
Speaker 2: Serame Court as we speak, and it could reshape how
Speaker 2: future presidents are able to use that power. On the
Speaker 2: show this morning, Kyle Moran, he's a political analyst and
Speaker 2: at Young Voices he's senior contributed there. Welcome, how are you.
Speaker 3: I'm good?
Speaker 5: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate it. So the big issue here as
Speaker 2: we debate tariffs and if they're effective or not. Is
Speaker 2: that the President invoked the Powers Act and designed for
Speaker 2: a national security crisis like wars or terrorism or seizing
Speaker 2: assets things like that to impose Trey teffs on China.
Speaker 2: Is this a misuse of emergency powers? Because that's what
Speaker 2: the High Court is going to decide here.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it basically is guaranteed to be some sort of
Speaker 5: abuse of overreach in terms of the emergency powers granted
Speaker 5: to him through that Act, because from day one when
Speaker 5: he rolled these out, he was already exempting very specific
Speaker 5: industries that are economically important because he knows the impact
Speaker 5: that tariff would have on those would be detrimental to
Speaker 5: the United States. But critically, this shows that it's not
Speaker 5: based on national security. When he's exempting copper, pharmaceuticals, semiconductors,
Speaker 5: all these other types of materials from the tariffs, then
Speaker 5: what is it? What is he even tariffing a lot
Speaker 5: of the needs a lot less important goods that we're importing.
Speaker 5: So therefore it's not based on national security, which he
Speaker 5: himself has sort of admitted very at various times. He
Speaker 5: has gone on record as saying it's going to be
Speaker 5: used to pay down the national debt to do now
Speaker 5: to do these stimulus checks as a source of revenue
Speaker 5: rather than as a national security concern.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is a concern too, is purely a
Speaker 2: revenue standpoint, And so far we've had some indication that
Speaker 2: the conservative justice are even pushing back on that. Amy
Speaker 2: Cony Barrett and Justice Chief Justice Rod John Roberts said
Speaker 2: that the vehicle is in position of taxes on Americans
Speaker 2: and that has always been a core power of Congress.
Speaker 2: Those early indicators certainly don't indicate how they're going to vote,
Speaker 2: because there's been times that I've thrown that out there.
Speaker 2: They're challenging it. But that if you're looking at the
Speaker 2: tea lives here, it doesn't bode well for this.
Speaker 5: No, it doesn't because like I was, like I said,
Speaker 5: so much of this has not even been like the
Speaker 5: opposition criticizing the administration, but the administration undermining its own position.
Speaker 5: So it really does. It does get into some tricky
Speaker 5: legal battles for the administration to keep the standing. But
Speaker 5: I do have to I do have to step back
Speaker 5: and think these powers were passed to be very limited
Speaker 5: in times of in times of actual concerns to national security.
Speaker 5: We have reached a point where Congress has seeded so
Speaker 5: much power to the executive. The point of passing that
Speaker 5: Act in nineteen seventy seven was never to institute broad
Speaker 5: sweeping powers for the executives to just simply impose and
Speaker 5: pull off and impose more tires, willy nilly. That was
Speaker 5: not what it was for. It's not what it's for now.
Speaker 5: And the country is not designed to be run by
Speaker 5: somebody who has essentially more and more unlimited power for
Speaker 5: four years before an election.
Speaker 2: If the Supreme Court rules against these terroriffts does that,
Speaker 2: then call them the re examination of the executive order
Speaker 2: power of the part of the presidency and executive. I
Speaker 2: mean we saw Biden and the autopen do it with impunity,
Speaker 2: and Trump said, well, here, hold my diet coke, watch
Speaker 2: me make a bunch of executive orders. In Congress has
Speaker 2: absolutely no. They're feckless, right, I mean, you can shut
Speaker 2: the government down for forty something days over god knows what.
Speaker 2: They can't really pass any income to conclusion, other than
Speaker 2: releasing the Epstein files because it covers their asses. But
Speaker 2: does this change that? How we how we maybe that
Speaker 2: the Congress actually is forced to do their job.
Speaker 5: I'm not optimistic on that it will limit the executive
Speaker 5: in terms of being able to do this on again,
Speaker 5: off again charade, which has reached incredible levels where it's
Speaker 5: literally back in April and May, it was every day
Speaker 5: you would open the news new tariff, and then one
Speaker 5: of those tariffs was canceled, and then the next day
Speaker 5: more tariffs. So that type of stuff would be much
Speaker 5: harder for future executives. But to your point about Biden,
Speaker 5: with the autopen and all these things, Congress has essentially feeded,
Speaker 5: like I said, so much of its own power to
Speaker 5: the executive on a broad range of issues. The Supreme
Speaker 5: Court doesn't have the ability to step in and say
Speaker 5: Congress needs to do this. It can say that the
Speaker 5: president doesn't have the ability himself to do it, but
Speaker 5: it can't make Congress do its job, and certainly, as
Speaker 5: we are seeing, Congress can't make Congress do its own job.
Speaker 5: So we are in an unfortunate position there and I'm
Speaker 5: not gone through them that will see much of an improvement.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think I'm hoping anyway, uh com moran
Speaker 2: that if the if the Supreme Court rolls against him
Speaker 2: with tariffs, which we'll get into the repercussions of that
Speaker 2: in a second, but on a bigger scale, and that
Speaker 2: is limiting executive office powers and executive branch powers. That
Speaker 2: there's a roadblock there, and the other one is going
Speaker 2: to be Venezuela at some point, I imagine you know
Speaker 2: that's going to come to some sort of fruition here
Speaker 2: because we're blowing up ships off the coast of Venezuela, which, yeah,
Speaker 2: allegedly drug runners, but we've had numerous studies and the
Speaker 2: like that have been done that says, well, Venezuela is
Speaker 2: not a drug problem. Maybe Mexico, and now he's considering
Speaker 2: other countries. So you could kind of like maybe put
Speaker 2: a couple of pillars up there, maybe a couple of
Speaker 2: speed bumps for these guys with a branch down the line.
Speaker 2: We'll see what happens. But relative to the ninety billion collected,
Speaker 2: that is another big problem there. The of course, the
Speaker 2: money's coming back in, but would there be a refund
Speaker 2: and how would that even work?
Speaker 5: That is an excellent question because this is something on
Speaker 5: this scale that's never been attempted before. So if these
Speaker 5: are struck down, there would have to be refunds. But
Speaker 5: depending on when this actually happens depending on if the
Speaker 5: government has spent this money. Trump is already eyeing using
Speaker 5: those funds for these two thousand dollars stimulus checks, which
Speaker 5: wouldn't even be enough to cover those by the way,
Speaker 5: but it would create a very unprecedented situation. We would
Speaker 5: have to see exactly how this plays out. But to
Speaker 5: answer your question, yes, they would have to be refunded well.
Speaker 2: And the other element here is if we have a
Speaker 2: thirty eight trillion dollar deficit, why are we handing out
Speaker 2: two thousand dollars checks exactly?
Speaker 5: Which is part of the issue here. Again, we saw
Speaker 5: the impact back under the Biden administration, incredibly big spending
Speaker 5: and money printing in one which drive inflation up to
Speaker 5: nine percent, and we are still feeling the results of that.
Speaker 5: We're still feeling the impact of that for almost five
Speaker 5: years on now. So when the inflation goes up like that,
Speaker 5: it never comes down again. The inflation rate at which
Speaker 5: prices increase may come down, but the prices that went
Speaker 5: up they're just there and you're stuck with that. You
Speaker 5: will never see twenty nineteen prices for a lot of
Speaker 5: goods again. And that's the unfortunate reality of the money
Speaker 5: system that we have now, where we just print more
Speaker 5: and more, and almost certainly we would have to print
Speaker 5: a considerable amount of money to make these two thousand
Speaker 5: dollars checks happen. And then on top of that, Trump
Speaker 5: hates the current Federal Reserve charge your own power, who's
Speaker 5: not flallaced by any means, but he wants to replace
Speaker 5: them with somebody who's going to be even more dubbish
Speaker 5: and turning the money print is back on and just
Speaker 5: print prints.
Speaker 2: And you know, as someone who is I guess more
Speaker 2: libertarian than anything, and I just distrust government top to bottom.
Speaker 2: I don care my team, your team. Kind of nonsense.
Speaker 2: There's an apocrisy test here. So how many Republicans who
Speaker 2: absolutely celebrate the tariffs in all this and the bombing
Speaker 2: of ships off Venezuela, wouldn't they be outrage of a
Speaker 2: Democratic president of the same. I mean, look at this one.
Speaker 2: We talk about the Affordable Care Act, which is they're right,
Speaker 2: it's subsidy. You're taking taxpayer money to give other people
Speaker 2: a break on their healthcare. Healthcare is too damn expensive.
Speaker 2: Let's do something the lower the cost of healthcare, as
Speaker 2: opposed to just giving aid to people and redistributing wealth.
Speaker 2: It doesn't work. It's too expensive, it's not a four.
Speaker 2: It doesn't make it affordable, it makes it less affordable.
Speaker 2: Subsidy does using that same logic, And I'm right about that.
Speaker 2: Republicans should be talking about what we're doing here with
Speaker 2: Trump and be equally outraged that now we're going to
Speaker 2: take money that could go pay off the deficay and
Speaker 2: we're going to give people subsidies.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and to your point, the healthcare situation is something
Speaker 5: the GOP has basically ignored for the last a decade
Speaker 5: minimum and at this point it's reaching a breaking point
Speaker 5: where they just can't ignore it anymore. They tried to
Speaker 5: appeal and replace Obamacare in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen, it
Speaker 5: went down in pretty famous ways, and the deal they
Speaker 5: wanted to pass is not a great deal to begin with.
Speaker 5: But ever since then, they just haven't tried much of anything.
Speaker 5: And the only people talking about healthcare reform now are
Speaker 5: the progressive And that's a very dangerous situation because when
Speaker 5: people when people see that their health care costs are skyrocketing,
Speaker 5: which they are, and the only people even talking about
Speaker 5: it are going to be AOC and Bernie Sanders, Like
Speaker 5: that is how you wind up with people like Zar
Speaker 5: Mombami is mayor, even though he doesn't have direct control
Speaker 5: over health care. People just hear these things from the
Speaker 5: left and resonate with it, and not illegitimately either because
Speaker 5: they they cannot afford these cramy surge surges in these cranses.
Speaker 5: So the GT really needs to get going on healthcare.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've said that all along, Kyle is. You know
Speaker 2: the Democrats plan is here's groupon we're going to get
Speaker 2: lower cost on your healthcare. We're gonna take something else's
Speaker 2: money and give it to you. Okay, that that's not
Speaker 2: a plan. That is just a band aid, is what
Speaker 2: that is. It makes things worse, not better in the
Speaker 2: long run. Look what the subsidies done to the college industry.
Speaker 2: You know, college is out of control because the subject
Speaker 2: is the same thing. And then I look at the
Speaker 2: Republicans and it's been fifteen years. They have no answer
Speaker 2: on this. All I hear is well eat better. Well,
Speaker 2: that's okay, eat better, but don't take tayl and all. Okay,
Speaker 2: but I've got cancer now and I can't afford it.
Speaker 2: I'm going to take the subsidy. That's that's what we're
Speaker 2: faced with.
Speaker 5: I know, it's it's absolute mannits and the talking points
Speaker 5: that they use for some of it is are legitimate.
Speaker 5: So when they were talking about not wanting any legal
Speaker 5: immigrants to be on our government subside of healthcare, this
Speaker 5: is a legitimate concern. But that is not addressing the
Speaker 5: issue that to millions of American suits and are seeing
Speaker 5: their healthcare comps go up more than double, sometimes triple
Speaker 5: over the last several years. Myself, I have seen mine
Speaker 5: go up more than doubles over the last four years.
Speaker 5: So this is unsustainable, and nobody on the right is
Speaker 5: even talking about it, let alone at proposing real plans
Speaker 5: on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And it was supposed to make America great again,
Speaker 2: and I think healthcare is certainly a cornerstone of that,
Speaker 2: and to some degree, people like Marjorie Tayler Green are
Speaker 2: accurate on that one too. Let's focus on this kind
Speaker 2: of stuff. You've had fifteen years to come up with
Speaker 2: a plan, and there's no plan at this point. It's
Speaker 2: nothing but platitudes, is what I'm getting. He is a commed.
Speaker 3: People on the.
Speaker 5: Right have been attacking her over this, and I'm thinking
Speaker 5: to myself, this is this is madness. I find it incredible.
Speaker 5: I'm raising Marjorie Taylor Green of all people. But she
Speaker 5: is absolutely right about this, and I respect her toward
Speaker 5: her courage and standing up to people who are otherwise
Speaker 5: just burying their head in the stands and depending all
Speaker 5: of well, it's not And I respect the fact that
Speaker 5: she's addressing him.
Speaker 2: He is a common ran political analyst and young voice,
Speaker 2: a senior contributor, and talking about tariffs now before the
Speaker 2: Supreme Court, and a will decide whether not these are
Speaker 2: illegal or not. If it's a no go, we got
Speaker 2: to talk about refunding money to these countries. But you know,
Speaker 2: at the same time, you look at getting China to
Speaker 2: the table to kind of negotiate, look at some of
Speaker 2: the deals done with other countries. Would it be tough
Speaker 2: for the Supreme Court don do all that.
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 5: In terms of executive the president negotiating with foreign countries,
Speaker 5: he certainly has pretty broad powers there. But the issue
Speaker 5: is that he is currently arguing that the tariffs are
Speaker 5: for national security and in no small part using that
Speaker 5: as leverage. But the issue is that he has also
Speaker 5: made so many other statements as well as other people
Speaker 5: in his administration making other statements that directly undermine that argument,
Speaker 5: because on one day, the case will be made that
Speaker 5: we need tariff to protect American industry, the next day
Speaker 5: it will be that tariffs are needed as a temporary
Speaker 5: measure to get other countries to lower their tariffs on us,
Speaker 5: and then the day after that it will be that
Speaker 5: we need tariffs to generate revenues that we can pay
Speaker 5: off our debt. So nobody, the administration's position on this
Speaker 5: changes on the daily and it's going to be a
Speaker 5: very challenging hill for the administration to climb, given how
Speaker 5: all over the places has been.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like corporate America in a way, is
Speaker 2: that you know, we live quarter to quarter. We don't
Speaker 2: care about tomorrow. We just care about the bottom line today,
Speaker 2: and we may cut our nose off to spite our face,
Speaker 2: but damn it, we got to do that right now.
Speaker 2: And it's now that's permeated to politics to agree. If
Speaker 2: you think about it, is if this is allowed, you
Speaker 2: want and you know, Republicans will celebrate this big win
Speaker 2: by the Supreme Court and the tariffs can stand. The
Speaker 2: present can do that. Okay, great, But one of the
Speaker 2: same people will be yelling and angry about this in
Speaker 2: the future next year or five years or eight whenever,
Speaker 2: and at some point a Democrat will be back in
Speaker 2: charge and maybe they go, hey, you know what, climate
Speaker 2: change is an economic emergency. We're going to impose carbon
Speaker 2: tariffs exactly.
Speaker 5: And that's why, that's why this whole system was set
Speaker 5: up not to be the way we're hurringly experiencing it,
Speaker 5: because we are. If you if you have a country
Speaker 5: in which you have radical changes of of national policy
Speaker 5: every four years, you're going to go through these wild
Speaker 5: whiplashes of of moving to the right for one administration
Speaker 5: moving to the left, and the other administration. And this
Speaker 5: will happen to some extent no matter what the system is,
Speaker 5: because the executive does have some power. But it was
Speaker 5: never designed to be this wild swing between Biden comes
Speaker 5: into office and because he's president, he can do all
Speaker 5: of these far left things and open the border in
Speaker 5: at least ten million illegal immigrants, which nobody voted for.
Speaker 5: Nobody voted in twenty twenty to open the border and
Speaker 5: let ten million people into the country. That was not
Speaker 5: part of the campaign. It just happened with no input
Speaker 5: from the American electorate, but despite widespread opposition to it,
Speaker 5: it just continued for three and a half years before
Speaker 5: he really tried to address them. Then Trump comes in.
Speaker 5: Nobody voted. I do not seriously believe that anyone really
Speaker 5: voted for such high tariffs on other countries. People may,
Speaker 5: as he did talk about it during a campaign to
Speaker 5: his credit on that, but I really don't think that
Speaker 5: this is my bunch of a huge point that people
Speaker 5: ended up voting on. So these these massive swings are
Speaker 5: just detrimental to the stability of our country.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are checks and balances and we need them
Speaker 2: and this will uh, this definitely will decide. It is
Speaker 2: a huge case before the court. He is a calm
Speaker 2: moran with the young voices. Thanks again, Kyle, great stuff,
Speaker 2: appreciate it.
Speaker 5: Thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will be interesting to see what the Supreme
Speaker 2: Court does. Congress, I'll silent on this one. Just out
Speaker 2: of the show. News updates as we slow it down
Speaker 2: here headed to Thanksgiving Day on Thursday. Short week for
Speaker 2: most of us, hopefully you too, and uh, rough weekend
Speaker 2: for sports in Cincinnati unless you are one of the
Speaker 2: team's named Xavier. It sucked largely, we'll do Bengals stuff
Speaker 2: with James Rapine from SI's Bengals Talk dot Com and
Speaker 2: Lockdow Bengals a daily podcast. That's next on the Scott
Speaker 2: Sloan Show seven hundred w WELW. What a horrible weekend
Speaker 2: for since these sports, unless, of course your team had
Speaker 2: Xavier and it's name and that was pretty good. But
Speaker 2: you see FC and the Bengals all lost at home,
Speaker 2: Bengals getting beat by the Patriots twenty six twenty Bengals
Speaker 2: fall to three and eight. Up next short week, it's
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving Night at Baltimore A twenty on the national stage
Speaker 2: and will we burrow or won't we borrow? We'll find out.
Speaker 2: James Rapine is here from Bengals Talk dot Com and
Speaker 2: the Daily Podcast Locked on Bengals. James, what an interesting
Speaker 2: day yesterday was. You can't help but think that if
Speaker 2: either Joe Burrow or Jamar Chase were in that game,
Speaker 2: Bengals win.
Speaker 5: No doubt, no doubt that the defense did it not
Speaker 5: and they did their job. Now were they perfect? No,
Speaker 5: they weren't perfect. Some of the stuff they did give
Speaker 5: up was ridiculous. Five they had to pick six, They
Speaker 5: had multiple goal line stands where the Patriots have it
Speaker 5: inside the five and don't score on nine plays, and
Speaker 5: then on another one you hold them to three at
Speaker 5: the one yard line, you hold them to a field goal.
Speaker 5: So yeah, if you get that kind of effort on defense,
Speaker 5: the way this team is built, with Joe Burrow and
Speaker 5: Jamar Chase and t Higgins up until the end, you
Speaker 5: expect to win that game. And obviously that they did.
Speaker 5: I think that's clearly a big reason why they lost
Speaker 5: the game.
Speaker 2: Well, we kind of knew Joe Burrow is up in there,
Speaker 2: and you know, you raid the team leaves, and the
Speaker 2: way coach was talking last week seemed to indicate like
Speaker 2: you think Joe Burrow is going to play, And I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: you know what, let's rest him. He said he was
Speaker 2: sore after practice, So you know, let's focus on the
Speaker 2: season's over for all intents and purposes. Anyway, this just
Speaker 2: seals it even more. But let's focus on the Ravens game,
Speaker 2: getting them back and getting them ready. But the big
Speaker 2: one to me was Jamar Chase. And I don't think
Speaker 2: it's lost on anyone that if Jamar starts that game,
Speaker 2: probably you got another target, especially with the injuries, Right,
Speaker 2: joshavask goes down, Higgins goes down with the concussion, and
Speaker 2: know Jamar Chase, that's a tough roat to ho even
Speaker 2: with Joe Burrow. But I think if Jim R. Chase
Speaker 2: were back, yeah, probably got a couple more catches, passes,
Speaker 2: first downs, maybe a touchdown. I think the outcome is different.
Speaker 5: For sure, and even late, let's just say that everything
Speaker 5: happens the same. I think the offense would have been
Speaker 5: better early in the game, but late, Zach Terrish probably
Speaker 5: far more likely to go forward on fourth and one
Speaker 5: from his own forty five if Jamar Chase is on
Speaker 5: the field, and he should have went anyway regardless. But
Speaker 5: I do think right, I think Jamar makes an impact.
Speaker 5: I think Joe Blacker would have been far more in
Speaker 5: rhythm early because he wasn't. And that's the difference, especially
Speaker 5: going up against a Patriots team that has won eighth
Speaker 5: straight coming in and now nine straight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Bengals offense didn't score a TD for almost
Speaker 2: an hour against the Patriots, but they weren't blown out.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a competitive loss, but you know, the
Speaker 2: whole moral victory thing is it's a waste because you know,
Speaker 2: does it actually help the team move forward or is
Speaker 2: it just masking problems that won't be addressed.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think the moral vic reads are
Speaker 5: They're not a young team, they're not an up and
Speaker 5: coming team. They're a team that was supposed.
Speaker 4: To win this year.
Speaker 5: And so even on defense, right, there's there's no moral victories.
Speaker 5: Their linebackers were awful yesterday. They could not guard sountor
Speaker 5: Henry and in some pretty obvious moments had some breakdowns. Now,
Speaker 5: I do think they played much better had the defense
Speaker 5: showed up against the Jets, while they win by three scores,
Speaker 5: had that defense showed up against the Bears, I think
Speaker 5: they win that game. Right that there are reasons to
Speaker 5: buy into all. Well, maybe what Al Golden is teaching
Speaker 5: is working for everyone but the rookie linebackers, who again
Speaker 5: I think struggled mightily.
Speaker 2: Feels like Geno Stone has that one good game of
Speaker 2: year one big seven tackles, has a pick six pass
Speaker 2: the defender, he had what the tackle one fourth and
Speaker 2: goal from the one yard line. He was great.
Speaker 5: He was he was great, and he deserves a ton
Speaker 5: of credit because he he played well. He heard it,
Speaker 5: he heard all the crem and I probably led the
Speaker 5: charge when it came to Geno stilling criticism and I
Speaker 5: and I'm fine with that. And guess what I want
Speaker 5: players like that that are struggling, that's how they should respond.
Speaker 5: They should respond. And I don't mean tick six. You
Speaker 5: can't really control that. Drake made through it right, the Genie.
Speaker 5: Really like the return through it right, the Geno. But
Speaker 5: on the very first player, second play from scrimmage, I
Speaker 5: noticed Geno soon his effort level in intensity, and it
Speaker 5: was its fuilt different than what I had seen, watched
Speaker 5: every staff of them all year, different than what I
Speaker 5: had seen this year. And whatever that was, that needs
Speaker 5: to be what he plays with every week. And that's
Speaker 5: what I would tell him if I'm the Bengals coaching staff.
Speaker 5: But whatever pissed him off or made him mad or
Speaker 5: whatever he played with maybe, and maybe it is just
Speaker 5: reading my criticize.
Speaker 2: Who knows.
Speaker 5: I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2: It's not me like a lot is absolutely you, James.
Speaker 2: They all listen to what you have to say. Your weight, carry,
Speaker 2: your mouth carries enough way to break an ordinary man's jaw,
Speaker 2: offer cry out.
Speaker 5: But but whatever it is, keep doing it, because I
Speaker 5: did notice really from the first and intensely difference with
Speaker 5: Gino's Stone, and that's how you should play on defense,
Speaker 5: especially a defense that's been back.
Speaker 2: James Rapen from Bengals Talk dot Com Lockdown Bengals. The
Speaker 2: Bengals lost there three and eight. Right now, Pittsburgh Baltimore
Speaker 2: up next on Thanksgiving Night. Let's go back and do
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh again. Uh place, Because we're talking about Geno Stone.
Speaker 2: He was really bad against Pittsburgh, but he flashed yesterday,
Speaker 2: that's for sure. Zach Tedter says that the Bengals haven't
Speaker 2: lost a game because of Joe Flacco yet he's now
Speaker 2: throwing pick sixes in consecutive weeks. His passer rating was
Speaker 2: just to tick over sixty three. At what point do
Speaker 2: you look at this and go, it's just it's untenable.
Speaker 2: There's a reason why, Zach, there's a reason why Joe
Speaker 2: Flacco is a backup. This is it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, for sure, he's come back down to earth, and
Speaker 5: I do think help is a part of it. He
Speaker 5: told me he was healthy after the game, and I
Speaker 5: think that's that's relative right. A forty year old quarterback
Speaker 5: that's dealing with a throwing shoulder injury and now a
Speaker 5: finger injury. But I do think he'll be active. I
Speaker 5: do think he's been good enough to be Like when
Speaker 5: they traded for him, as you just said, this, you're
Speaker 5: going to get I think everybody in the building, I
Speaker 5: think we I think we would have all signed up
Speaker 5: for it. And the downside is is that when he
Speaker 5: was playing that elite level of football for a few
Speaker 5: games and they were humming on offense and in a rhythm,
Speaker 5: he did not. He did not the defense needed to
Speaker 5: back him up and to get a couple more wins.
Speaker 5: He only is one win as a Bengals quarterback. That
Speaker 5: shouldn't be the case. He shouldn't be one in five.
Speaker 5: He should probably be three and three. And that's not
Speaker 5: the case. And that's unfortunate. And that's why the Bengals
Speaker 5: are never going to have a real discussion about the
Speaker 5: playoffs this year.
Speaker 2: Could they have started Joe Burrow?
Speaker 5: I would I would have and I said that Saturday.
Speaker 5: This isn't my on sight. I get the frustration. Look,
Speaker 5: if you're bringing Joe Burrow back at all this week,
Speaker 5: and I fully expect that to be the case, why
Speaker 5: not bring him back when it's their three seven when
Speaker 5: they have an actual chance to go three and seven
Speaker 5: to five and seven in a five day stretch to
Speaker 5: get back into the playoff mix, and they would. If
Speaker 5: they were five and seven, I would consider them back
Speaker 5: in the playoffs night, except for everything that had happened. Obviously,
Speaker 5: they would still need to win a bunch of games.
Speaker 5: I get it, But that's what I would have done.
Speaker 5: I said, if I'm bringing Joe Burrow back in what
Speaker 5: feels like a meaningless season, I wouldn't give him every
Speaker 5: opportunity to have a chance at making a run at it,
Speaker 5: even if it's improbable. And there are going to be
Speaker 5: people that say, well what if he wasn't ready and
Speaker 5: all of those things. Well, the difference between playing Sunday
Speaker 5: and Thursday, there's not much of one outside of a
Speaker 5: few days rest, and obviously have a short week. I
Speaker 5: get that. I get that, the concern of playing on
Speaker 5: a short week. I also think that after a couple
Speaker 5: of full practices last week, Burrough would have been good
Speaker 5: to go, or good enough to go to play. And
Speaker 5: if you're doing that, give him a chance, because now
Speaker 5: I wouldn't personally, I wouldn't play in Thursday.
Speaker 4: Would you playing Thursday?
Speaker 5: I wouldn't. What does that do? That just puts him
Speaker 5: on the road in Baltimore, exposed against the division rival,
Speaker 5: who knows what's going to happen. That's that's how I
Speaker 5: looked at It.
Speaker 2: Feels like, I mean, you know, okay, so you don't
Speaker 2: win out the rest of the season. They're already selling
Speaker 2: tickets at twenty percent off every long game. Now make it,
Speaker 2: make it half off Bogo, some sort of Bengals Bogo
Speaker 2: deal for the rest of the season. I don't get
Speaker 2: why you would put your quarterback, especially Joe Burrow, the
Speaker 2: entire operations built around him. You're going to need him
Speaker 2: healthy in the off season to work and then get
Speaker 2: ready for hopefully a better twenty twenty six, a playoff
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, because let's face it, you know the
Speaker 2: windows shrinking every single year. It doesn't seem prudent to
Speaker 2: put the guy on the field. Why does need the rep.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I I think he wants to play, right, So
Speaker 5: that's it. And look going into last week when he
Speaker 5: was really starting to make his push and I could
Speaker 5: get the sense that he was going to push to
Speaker 5: play and play this week, I said, all right, Bengals,
Speaker 5: do one or the other pick away either say hey,
Speaker 5: you're not going to play and don't play him, which
Speaker 5: means moving forward, don't playing Thursday. Maybe you give him
Speaker 5: a full week of practice ahead a buffle if you
Speaker 5: really play, but he's not going to get one real
Speaker 5: practice this week and then he's going to go play
Speaker 5: Baltimore because it's such a short week. I mean, that's
Speaker 5: a that's a really big downside to me in my mind,
Speaker 5: especially in the gamement. What are you going to get
Speaker 5: to four and eight? You know that's and so that
Speaker 5: to me, there's enough risk involved there where I would
Speaker 5: be super cautious and pull him completely back or go
Speaker 5: the other way and say, hey, you know what, we
Speaker 5: have a shot at this. Joe feels good enough, he
Speaker 5: wants to play, let's go play, and let's try to
Speaker 5: get back in this thing. And they kind of the
Speaker 5: answer for them was in the middle. And I hate
Speaker 5: the middle. You'd never want to be in the middle.
Speaker 5: In the middle is usually the wrong place to be.
Speaker 5: And I think that's where they're going to end up,
Speaker 5: because they'll end up with, you know, five or six
Speaker 5: wins with Joe Burrow playing dumb straight.
Speaker 2: And it's how developed down the receiver. So Jamar Chase
Speaker 2: out with the suspension. He'll be back for Thursday night football.
Speaker 2: Now t Higgins isn't the concussion protocol. He didn't look
Speaker 2: good on the sideline when he was sitting on the cart.
Speaker 2: I'd be shocked if we were a bit back. I
Speaker 2: don't know. Jose Vask got hurt. That doesn't look good.
Speaker 2: How good was Mitchell Tinsley?
Speaker 3: Though?
Speaker 5: Good, really good? And Mitch Tinsley is like he's a
Speaker 5: real guy. He needs to get more reps. I think
Speaker 5: that's what we learned yesterday. I know he splashed down
Speaker 5: the class in the preseason last earlier this year, I'm
Speaker 5: I'm of the belief now after what he did game
Speaker 5: on the line, no one had really made a play.
Speaker 5: He made plays. You need Mitch Tinsley to get more reps,
Speaker 5: and I hope he gives them. I really do, because
Speaker 5: he's he's kind of a matter of fact, no nonsense,
Speaker 5: work really hard, do what it will with's asked, and
Speaker 5: when you do throw the ball his way, he's going
Speaker 5: to do everything. He can't get it. Like I just
Speaker 5: described the receiver, you want every single receiver to be.
Speaker 5: Whether his attitude is pulling this to block all of
Speaker 5: those things. So, yeah, Mitch Tinsley, I would expect him
Speaker 5: to be part of that Joe Burrow target share on
Speaker 5: Thursday at Baltimore.
Speaker 2: Well, sure as hell, isn't Jermaine Burton an active twelfth
Speaker 2: consecutive game. You thought they'd elevate you. Is he done
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati? And if so, what does that say about
Speaker 2: how the team evaluates how they draft, because that's really
Speaker 2: the issue here were specially when it comes to the defense.
Speaker 5: Oh, it ps me he's done. It tells me he's done.
Speaker 5: If you can't get on the field and your team
Speaker 5: is longing to roll with four wide receivers active over
Speaker 5: activating you, it certainly tells me he's done. And they wished,
Speaker 5: they wished gay time on this pick. Maybe maybe he
Speaker 5: catches on somewhere else and it worked. Clearly it hasn't
Speaker 5: worked here.
Speaker 2: James E. Bengals defense has been battered all season. Last
Speaker 2: couple of games are starting to put it together, and
Speaker 2: you got to give credit recordits down linebackers, different story,
Speaker 2: but man at run defense was pretty good yesterday. It
Speaker 2: wasn't bad, right, unbelievable.
Speaker 5: I'm unbelievable to say that the run defense was all right,
Speaker 5: how about that? Where where was this a month ago?
Speaker 5: When dancing on the grade and that's what was happening.
Speaker 5: We just didn't know what.
Speaker 2: It's crazy, right, it's crazy. It's crazy how the script
Speaker 2: flip too, because the defense and now now the offense
Speaker 2: is the problem.
Speaker 5: Got so offensive scored twenty five points in the last
Speaker 5: two games. You think about it, they had yesterday they
Speaker 5: had thirteen on offense and uh in last week when
Speaker 5: they had twelve against the Steelers. I mean they just
Speaker 5: for all all the people that said the offense wasn't
Speaker 5: the problem we had nowadays you know it's Uh, it's
Speaker 5: just this never ending circle of a season where it's
Speaker 5: offense is at an issue than it is then it's not.
Speaker 5: Now it's the defense. Now the defense is better, but
Speaker 5: the offense isn't.
Speaker 2: I don't know how that happened.
Speaker 5: I don't know a wheel and tell me what happens
Speaker 5: on Thursday.
Speaker 2: And the defensive player's probably given Jamar side Jamar Chase
Speaker 2: side eye right now for his comments like taking shots
Speaker 2: at the defense, and it's like, okay, were you a
Speaker 2: big boy?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Wow, yeah, I mean that's something else. It really
Speaker 5: it's forth mooting the jamar Fitgate loss of him in
Speaker 5: that potentially costing.
Speaker 2: Them that game. I would agree. I'd agree that's going
Speaker 2: to hang over his head and hopefully, you know, you'll
Speaker 2: learn from it. And I hate to say that because
Speaker 2: it sounds so cliche, but he seems like the guy
Speaker 2: that that would take that to heart and go kay
Speaker 2: can be unlike Jermaine Burton, different story. I'm not expecting
Speaker 2: much Thursday night changed. I'm not expecting much even if
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow does start.
Speaker 5: Man, Yeah, it's so tough because I I think I'll
Speaker 5: just called Joe Burrow in high regard, and I think
Speaker 5: there's some that you necessarily, but I think there's some
Speaker 5: people that had forgot what he means and how important
Speaker 5: he is, and so like, am I going to count
Speaker 5: Joe Burrow out in Baltimore?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 5: Hell no? But that that's also why I would have
Speaker 5: played him against the Patriots. I would have said, hey, Joe,
Speaker 5: it's a tall task. We're willing to do this if
Speaker 5: you are, and he would have said, hell yeah, I'm
Speaker 5: willing to do this five days to try to stay
Speaker 5: of our season and get us to five and seven.
Speaker 5: And you know, I think He's going to have that
Speaker 5: team fired up. They will be fired up. The problem
Speaker 5: is a Baltimore needs that game too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Lamar's back too. That's the big one. Lamar's
Speaker 2: back and he's you know what he can do. So
Speaker 2: James Rapine over at Bengals Talk dot Com and the
Speaker 2: Lockdown Bengals Only Daily Bengals podcast, James, all the best,
Speaker 2: All right, have a great holiday. I know you're on
Speaker 2: the road for this one, and we'll catch up in
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks.
Speaker 5: You don't trust the Bengals lining actors against Lamar?
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't see them, you know, that close against
Speaker 2: New England. So what do we know?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: I mean, it's the high flying New England Patriots. Drake
Speaker 2: May looked, it looked like Joe Flacco for most of
Speaker 2: the first half of the entirety of the first quarter.
Speaker 2: So who the hell know is what's going to happen?
Speaker 2: All the best, buddy, Appreciate.
Speaker 5: You, Thank God, appreciate you.
Speaker 2: All Right, there you go, I've got a holiday weekend
Speaker 2: coming up and got Thursday night football, Bengals. Have some turkey,
Speaker 2: have some more turkey. Stuff yourself silly. If the game's terrible,
Speaker 2: have even more turkey, and just fall asleep. That's how
Speaker 2: it works. Willie is on the way next on the
Speaker 2: home of the best Bengals coverage seven hundred w W
Speaker 2: since now