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Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: Hiks Dan Watkins for that news I'm Bradley Jay and

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Speaker 2: for Dan Ray. We're with Michael con dean of the

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Speaker 2: Massachusetts School of Law, and we're continuing with a question

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Speaker 2: from Jane in Shrewsbury. And it was complicated to me

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Speaker 2: by Dean Coin being the attorney and educated that is

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Speaker 2: seemed to grasp the situation right away. And Jane, since

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Speaker 2: it's been some time, can you sort of refresh us

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Speaker 2: in the simple version of what is what your question is?

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Speaker 2: Like the simplest part so even I can get it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I was just going to refresh the last part,

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Speaker 3: but I could go through the whole thing again, but

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Speaker 3: I don't want to waste I can do.

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Speaker 4: The last part.

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Speaker 3: Is just if the person can be forced to forfeit

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Speaker 3: money that they inherited outside of a will, if they've

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Speaker 3: tried to commit a fraud against an estate.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean the thing is when I think when

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Speaker 5: you're talking about that they've received money outside the estate,

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Speaker 5: so that whether it's a bank account that was a

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Speaker 5: shared bank account, or some other property you usually.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like insurance or you know, investment account or something

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Speaker 3: like that.

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Speaker 5: Well, they now have funds, and so those funds could

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Speaker 5: it be used to satisfy any judgment you might get

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Speaker 5: against them for the fraud that was perpetrated on you

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Speaker 5: because you've you've obviously had a significant expense that was

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Speaker 5: incurred as a result of this. But it all really

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Speaker 5: comes down to can you prove the fraud in the

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Speaker 5: first place, because if so, well, then you have an

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Speaker 5: argument that these cars that you have a right to

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Speaker 5: sue her to try and recover some of this money

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Speaker 5: that you've spent, and it's ill gotten gains for her,

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Speaker 5: but you'd have a judgment that you could then try

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Speaker 5: to attach those that property that she has, whether it's

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Speaker 5: insurance or an investment account or whatever.

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Speaker 4: Interesting. What do you think your odds approving it are.

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Speaker 3: I think the odds are really good, but you just

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Speaker 3: never know if you end up before judge.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, that's that sounds like it's a lot of

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Speaker 2: stress for you, Jane, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean that's the whole thing is. I think the

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Speaker 3: person just doesn't realize the imposition they're making on someone

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Speaker 3: else's life for their own, you know, wishful state or

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Speaker 3: what have you. That there's actually a consequence for somebody else.

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Speaker 5: How do you so clearly know that it's a forged document?

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Speaker 3: Things, Well, we paid a handwriting expert to evaluate it,

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Speaker 3: who said that none of the signatures on it are

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Speaker 3: actual original signatures, all of them are copies.

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Speaker 4: Is how do you know that person is an expert?

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Speaker 2: You know, when they go into court, you're gonna have

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Speaker 2: they're gonna have to say where you went to school?

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Speaker 4: I learned this, and.

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Speaker 2: You're tell me about where you went to school, and

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Speaker 2: how long you've been doing this, and do you have

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Speaker 2: any degrees in it? And do you belong to any

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Speaker 2: handwriting analysis organizations?

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Speaker 6: Exactly?

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Speaker 5: And there are people with such expertise and they charge,

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Speaker 5: they charge good money for their services, and they are

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Speaker 5: they There is an ability then to be able to

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Speaker 5: say that the document does not compare it to an

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Speaker 5: acknowledged original and therefore the indication is that it has

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Speaker 5: been forged or taken from somewhere that's improper.

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Speaker 4: So my job, as her opponent would be when petees

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Speaker 4: this testimony.

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Speaker 5: Well, they may have their own expert. They say, yeah,

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Speaker 5: they're just the opposite. Oh no, no, this is fine.

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Speaker 4: So can you go shop? This is good? Can you

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Speaker 4: go shopping, you do for an expert. Hey, look, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I got this gig for you. If you can tell

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Speaker 4: me these two signatures a match. Isn't that kind of shady?

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Speaker 5: It is shady the way the way some experts are obtained.

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Speaker 6: But there's a reason for her.

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Speaker 5: I don't want my own money being used against me

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Speaker 5: at trials, so I need to know before we hire

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Speaker 5: you that you can support my version of the events.

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Speaker 5: So make an assessment, take a look, and we can

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Speaker 5: talk about what I need for you to be able

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Speaker 5: to say if I'm going to hire you. But yeah,

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Speaker 5: that's the fact is the the the alternative is much worse.

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Speaker 5: So now I've paid you five thousand dollars or whatever,

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Speaker 5: and you end up showing up for the other side

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Speaker 5: to testify, client's going to have to.

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Speaker 2: There's a fine line between vetting an expert and influencing

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Speaker 2: the expert.

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Speaker 5: That's correct, that's correct, And there are times where the

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Speaker 5: expert will say, I can't support that.

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Speaker 6: That's not the way it looks to me.

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Speaker 2: Right now, can they opposition try to prove that you

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Speaker 2: did influence the expert to see it your way?

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Speaker 6: Oh?

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Speaker 5: Sure, that's cross examination. You know who who assisted you

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Speaker 5: with it, what they.

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Speaker 4: Tell you, what they wanted, etc.

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Speaker 5: Well, they're not going to ask that, because the lawyers

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Speaker 5: should be smart enough not to tell them what it is.

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Speaker 5: But I do want to see the exchange of information

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Speaker 5: between them because that would indicate to what extent they

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Speaker 5: may have been influenced as ice as the other side

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Speaker 5: sees it improperly. So do you think you're going to

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Speaker 5: go to court, Jane? If so, can I attend that?

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Speaker 5: I think it would be interesting.

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Speaker 3: I have no idea like how that, how much notice

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Speaker 3: I would have or what have you. I don't It's

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Speaker 3: not like a super long drawn out type of trial,

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Speaker 3: you know, with a big audience. But there's also the

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Speaker 3: chance of settling. But then if we settle, how do

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Speaker 3: we even know that the money that the person got

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Speaker 3: outside of the estate was legitimately got as well since

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Speaker 3: they control the paperwork, since they live in the same

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Speaker 3: building as the person who died. Okay, it's very complicated.

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Speaker 4: All right. I appreciate you sharing with us. I appreciate

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Speaker 4: that very much.

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Speaker 2: Luck Wow, speaking of wills and all, this would be

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Speaker 2: a good opportunity.

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Speaker 4: Everybody should have a will, right everybody? At what age

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Speaker 4: should you get a.

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Speaker 5: Will, well, you actually should have one early because even

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Speaker 5: when you're twenty right, well, twenty twenty, you.

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Speaker 4: Just put some banana and some dimes.

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Speaker 5: But once, once you have children, once you have some assets,

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Speaker 5: it's not because it's not just your assets that you're

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Speaker 5: going to decide where they go, because otherwise the state

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Speaker 5: will decide which of your relatives will get them. But

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Speaker 5: also you can make determinations about who should be the

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Speaker 5: godian from your child in the event you die, who

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Speaker 5: should hold the child's money in the event you die,

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Speaker 5: and how long and what could that person pay for

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Speaker 5: the child. We used to we usually use the language health, education,

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Speaker 5: and well being. So when it's a pair of sneakers,

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Speaker 5: that's going to be covered. But if it's high school

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Speaker 5: or college, that's going to be covered as well. But

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Speaker 5: you don't want a child to have massive amounts of

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Speaker 5: money once they turn eighteen. That's very dangerous priced to do.

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Speaker 2: And of course, usually when folks have a will, and

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Speaker 2: this is important, you might think that everyone knows this

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Speaker 2: and may have already done it.

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Speaker 4: They should have.

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Speaker 2: A will because it's a real burden on your loved one,

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Speaker 2: your survivors if you don't besides the fact they may

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Speaker 2: not get what you want. You're putting them through this

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Speaker 2: kind of red tape hell.

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Speaker 5: And a lot of times with the will people, also

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Speaker 5: the lawyers would encourage the individuals to execute a health

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Speaker 5: care proxy. I explain what that is exactly. Health care

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Speaker 5: proxy dictates or at least says, in the event you're incapacitated,

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Speaker 5: who will make those decisions about potential treatment or the

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Speaker 5: lack of treatment. So it should be someone that you

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Speaker 5: obviously trust extensively, and also who shares your wishes or

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Speaker 5: at least will you know, will honor your wishes, whether

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Speaker 5: it's do not resuscitate or whatever under the circumstances.

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Speaker 2: Here is a key, key question. Is there sort of

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Speaker 2: a conflict of interest that would should you not have

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Speaker 2: the person who is in charge of your health also

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Speaker 2: be a huge beneficiary in your will, because then you

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Speaker 2: could get a.

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Speaker 4: Conflict of interest. I know you kind of laughing.

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Speaker 6: I am laughing.

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Speaker 4: On the other hand, people are not altogether nice all

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Speaker 4: the time.

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Speaker 6: So the bounty of your faction.

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Speaker 2: We're going to go bullet plug because I and stand

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Speaker 2: to get a million bucks.

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Speaker 5: So the bounty of your affection, who you're going to

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Speaker 5: give your life, savings and everything you you might not trust.

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Speaker 6: You don't trust them.

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Speaker 5: Okay, well, shouldn't they be getting your money?

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Speaker 2: Maybe getting into choppy territory here, But let's let's say

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Speaker 2: it's your wife. Maybe you have nobody else you want

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Speaker 2: to give it to you, But maybe you don't trust

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Speaker 2: your wife. Not every husband trusts every wife, or vice versa.

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Speaker 2: So is it wise to sometimes get it have them separate?

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Speaker 5: Am I just I'm having problems getting my arms around this.

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Speaker 6: I would not be giving all my money to.

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Speaker 5: Someone I don't trust, all right, Okay, I don't know

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Speaker 5: about most people.

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Speaker 2: I guess maybe I think the worst in all cases.

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Speaker 2: Some people figure everything is probably going to be Okay.

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Speaker 2: I figure if something bad can happen, it will, and

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Speaker 2: and that's kind of how I operate my life. So

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Speaker 2: what if this giant sum of money, giant sums of

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Speaker 2: money can make people that you do trust act act badly?

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Speaker 6: You're right, I am right.

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Speaker 5: We know some people will be motivated improperly and and

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Speaker 5: but but again, they don't deserve to be a healthcare proxy.

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Speaker 4: Look out in the world and see all kinds of

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Speaker 4: bad things happen to good people.

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Speaker 6: And no doubt about it.

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Speaker 5: Like you're a normal guy, mostly better than normalst what's

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Speaker 5: better than my wife would disagree.

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Speaker 4: There are a lot of subpar people out there. All right,

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Speaker 4: this is fun. Let's take a break. I don't want

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Speaker 4: to rape, but we gotta. It's WBZ.

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Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Dan on WBZ Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: Red Jay and for Dan with Dean Michael Coin from

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Speaker 2: the Massachusetts School of my favorite school of law. We

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Speaker 2: were talking about will's and healthcare proxy and then this

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Speaker 2: power of attorney. The three generally go together, correct, right,

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Speaker 2: and so can you talk about what power of attorney

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Speaker 2: is and why that should be done when you get

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Speaker 2: your will and your healthcare proxy done.

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Speaker 5: Power of attorney authorizes someone to act in your place

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Speaker 5: if you're unable to do so, or even if well.

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Speaker 5: You can determine whether it's only in the event of

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Speaker 5: a disability, or they can act for you in your stead.

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Speaker 5: For instance, I suppose you have an elderly parent who

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Speaker 5: can't regularly get to the bank or do other things,

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Speaker 5: so they could designate their son as a daughter. What

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Speaker 5: I'm picking son because it would be me that they

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Speaker 5: could designate that person as in essence they provide them

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Speaker 5: a power of attorney. It's a document that's signed by

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Speaker 5: that person and then notarize so that it's official, so

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Speaker 5: that then others could rely on that if you were

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Speaker 5: acting on behalf of your mother or someone else, that

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Speaker 5: you are in fact legally authorized to act. So sometimes

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Speaker 5: a lot of people do it so that it only

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Speaker 5: takes effect in the event of a disability, such that

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Speaker 5: if you think about it, well, then someone's in the

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Speaker 5: hospital or laid up for a period of time. How

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Speaker 5: does the mortgage get paid? How do the bills get

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Speaker 5: paid that are due in the house. You need to

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Speaker 5: have some ability then to go to the bank and

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Speaker 5: move some money around and to actually execute documents as well.

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Speaker 5: The power of attorney allows you to do that as well.

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Speaker 6: What happens if you.

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Speaker 4: Don't have a will?

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Speaker 2: What is the the procedure or what happens to your.

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Speaker 6: Stuff if you when you die?

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Speaker 4: If you die intestate?

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Speaker 5: Okay, Well, the law decides who your heirs will be.

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Speaker 5: If you have children, it would and know well, if

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Speaker 5: you have a spouse, uh, significant portion is going to

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Speaker 5: go to your spouse. Uh. If you have children, then

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Speaker 5: that you usually would descend Uh. This domestic partner. No,

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Speaker 5: the domestic partner is not concerned.

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Speaker 4: That's one of the benefits of getting legally married.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely well, or get a will, okay, right, because and

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Speaker 5: that's the problem. And if you have a domestic partner,

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Speaker 5: then you better have a healthcare proxy for that person

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Speaker 5: as well, because it won't be your partner, if you're

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Speaker 5: not married, it won't be your partner making the calls.

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Speaker 5: It'll be some blood relative and that that may not

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Speaker 5: be what you who you want making those determinations. And

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Speaker 5: it really does that of it becomes quite problematic for people.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I appreciate that, folks. You really should get that done.

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Speaker 2: And the reason this popped up is because we did

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Speaker 2: have a call from Jane and Shrewsbury who has an

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Speaker 2: issue in that area. Now, can we get back to

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Speaker 2: the wals trailer Brian Wells trial.

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Speaker 4: Lots of ins and outs on that.

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Speaker 2: Now, uh, how about the heart evidence there were did

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Speaker 2: you was there any weapon found?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 6: I don't believe there was any weapon.

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Speaker 5: There's the there is evidence, but it's much more of

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Speaker 5: a circumstantial evidence case, so that you've got a lot

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Speaker 5: of searches that are very incriminating on the various devices

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Speaker 5: that were in the house. You have the video from

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Speaker 5: home depot, you have the trail from his ankle bracelet

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Speaker 5: showing him visit visiting various dumpsters, and and so there's

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Speaker 5: there's evidence to support it in obviously no one has

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Speaker 5: seen or heard from her since that night.

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Speaker 2: Rules of evidence wise, Okay, a lot of times you're

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Speaker 2: not able to bring in past crimes into this trial.

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Speaker 4: Correct.

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Speaker 2: If some evidence is based on an ankle bracelet, then

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Speaker 2: that would necessitate bringing that these past crimes in. Otherwise

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Speaker 2: they wouldn't have an ankle bracelet. Would that say that

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Speaker 2: you couldn't bring in the evidence that is based on

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Speaker 2: having an ankle bracelet because that speaks to previous crimes.

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Speaker 5: Well, first of all, you are right. Generally you aren't

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Speaker 5: allowed to use prior criminal offenses to show propensity to

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Speaker 5: commit crimes. But in this case, they both the ankle

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Speaker 5: bracelet and the earlier conviction may well be relevant. The

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Speaker 5: ankle bracelet becomes relevant because it allows us to track him,

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Speaker 5: and you could say he had an ankle bracelet, honor,

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Speaker 5: you could say it was tracked by way of a

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Speaker 5: GPS or a location device. We could sanitize it, so

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Speaker 5: you don't necessarily know it's an ankle bracelet. But to

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Speaker 5: the other part of the problem is, I think you're

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Speaker 5: likely to be a They are likely going to admit

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Speaker 5: the evidence that he was on probation for an theft

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Speaker 5: item at forgery, and that he had restitution to pay

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Speaker 5: which was well beyond his means.

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Speaker 6: He was unemployed.

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Speaker 5: Okay, so this goes to motive exactly, And so you

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Speaker 5: could introduce that as it goes to motive that he

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Speaker 5: was desperate to stay out of jail to be able

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Speaker 5: to raise some money somehow, and she was well insured,

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Speaker 5: so that there would gave him a motive to build

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Speaker 5: kill her, take the money, pay off his restitution award,

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Speaker 5: and hopefully, as he would see it, stay out of jail.

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Speaker 2: Is it ever a defense that that plan seems so

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Speaker 2: dumb that no one in the right mind would do it?

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Speaker 4: Would would follow.

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Speaker 6: That, isn't the partner always?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, first first suspect, first suspect, and for a reason.

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Speaker 2: But it's thing number one. He's you'd think he had

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Speaker 2: watched enough Stevie to know that. But then you got

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Speaker 2: to know there are cameras at home vapor or whatever

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Speaker 2: home goods.

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Speaker 4: Still he went and bought this.

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Speaker 6: He went to Home Goods too, was.

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Speaker 2: Establishment he went to Of course, there are cameras all

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Speaker 2: over the place right there, I mean she and then

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Speaker 2: how how difficult is it to overcome the lack of

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Speaker 2: a body.

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Speaker 5: It's not, it's it can be overcome.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 6: There's been many cases actually where it.

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Speaker 5: Was the most most famous around this area was Robin

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Speaker 5: Benedict was killed by a professor from Tufts and they

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Speaker 5: were arguing, oh, she's not dead, she's going to show

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Speaker 5: up for trial, until he pled out to the manslaughter

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Speaker 5: and went to jail for twenty years. Professor Douglas, there

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Speaker 5: was one in Connecticut where the woman's body was disposed

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Speaker 5: of by way of a wood chipper. So you can't

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Speaker 5: prove death other than producing the body. It's just unusual

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Speaker 5: because again that's usually the easiest thing to prove in

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Speaker 5: the murder case, is that the person actually died.

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Speaker 4: Okay, now tomorrow you mentioned there's a competency hearing.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, on Brian Walsh.

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Speaker 2: And there are different kinds of incombonants. You made the

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Speaker 2: distinction earlier. Do you remember that conversation again?

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Speaker 6: I do?

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Speaker 4: Can you we don't refresh your memory?

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Speaker 2: Can you recount that for us here in the courtroom.

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Speaker 5: Well, the competency to stand trial for Brian Walsh is

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Speaker 5: very different than Lindsey Clancy's argument that when she killed

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Speaker 5: her three children she was insane and therefore not criminally responsible.

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Speaker 5: So there's one part of this takes place at the

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Speaker 5: beginning of the trial, and that's Brian Walsh's. What the

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Speaker 5: argument here is, as a result of the injuries he

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Speaker 5: suffered in prison in Norfolk County, that his mental state

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Speaker 5: has taken a serious decline and therefore he may be

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Speaker 5: no longer competent to stand trial. And what that means

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Speaker 5: is that because of this mental health issue, he can't

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Speaker 5: appreciate the charges against him, he can't cooperate with his

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Speaker 5: lawyer in offending him. And you know, there's some many

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Speaker 5: serious questions that he's going to answer. Do I testify?

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Speaker 5: Is it to my advantage to testify? What witnesses should

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Speaker 5: we call? He needs to be fully aware of both

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Speaker 5: these important decisions and sufficiently knowledgeable to make them. If

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Speaker 5: his mental health is in fact in serious decline, then

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Speaker 5: the court could determine. I don't think it's likely they

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Speaker 5: could determine tomorrow that he is not competent to stand

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Speaker 5: trial at present. Trial should begin sometime next week if

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Speaker 5: in fact, he's determined to be competent. The judges kept

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Speaker 5: a pretty tight schedule on this case and has scheduled

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Speaker 5: it to start as early as next week, with testimony

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Speaker 5: beginning after Thanksgiving.

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Speaker 2: I have a question we can answer after this breaking.

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Speaker 2: The question is this, but won't answer yet. Isn't it

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Speaker 2: coming upon the state to look after your well being

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Speaker 2: when you're in their custody?

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Speaker 6: Oh? Sure, but oh you want to answer what we

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Speaker 6: get back?

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Speaker 4: I want when we get back?

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Speaker 2: That's the big Tea's Well, yeah, how come these things

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Speaker 2: like this happen so often?

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Speaker 6: They?

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Speaker 2: Or do they really happen so often? Is that just

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Speaker 2: kind of a tale? Let it happen often?

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Speaker 4: We'll find that out after this On WBZ.

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Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray, Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: You know, folks, if you should miss any portion of

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Speaker 2: any segment of any night side show, or maybe you

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Speaker 2: just want to hear it again, or maybe you want

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00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,639
Speaker 2: to share it with someone, just google night Side on

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Speaker 2: demand and it will take you right to the podcast,

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Speaker 2: which the Rob Brooks or whoever's working the wheel there.

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Speaker 2: They put out right away, so they're available the next day.

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Speaker 2: It's quite cool. That's just Google Nightside on demand. And

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Speaker 2: by the way, a shout out to Dan Ray. We're

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Speaker 2: here with Michael Coin the Massachusetts School of Law talking

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Speaker 2: about Brian Walsh case. The defendant Brian Walsh, resident of Cohassett,

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Speaker 2: and the alleged victim and a Walsh. That jurisdiction, by

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Speaker 2: the way, would be Norfolk County. Now tomorrow was a

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Speaker 2: hearing a fitness to stand trial here and a competency here.

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Speaker 2: And this is because the defendant was stabbed in jail.

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Speaker 2: And I asked a question prior to the break doesn't

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Speaker 2: the state be isn't it incumbent upon the state not

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Speaker 2: to let that happen? And if it happens, can you

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Speaker 2: sue the state? And your answer was.

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Speaker 5: The answer is that you should expect that violent things

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Speaker 5: will happen if we house a whole bunch of violent

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Speaker 5: people together. And so it comes with the territory. So

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Speaker 5: I understand the point. But no matter what, the state

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Speaker 5: can't always keep you safe in these violent, dangerous well

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Speaker 5: even more than just simply negligent. You'd have to show

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Speaker 5: that somehow they really disregarded the safety precautions.

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Speaker 6: That they owe to you.

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Speaker 5: And the fact is is that they do take an

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Speaker 5: awful lot of safety precautions. They really do try to

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Speaker 5: make sure that everyone's safe. With that said, there's an

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Speaker 5: awful lot of violent things that happen in prison among

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Speaker 5: the prisoners that are there, and it's not easy then

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Speaker 5: to recover under those circumstances.

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Speaker 2: So that do the best they do with the tax

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Speaker 2: money where we want to give them.

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Speaker 5: Well, and that I think that people feel in part ispriate.

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Speaker 5: We want, we would hope that it'd be safer, but

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Speaker 5: I think it's not realistic to think that prisons are safe.

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Speaker 6: They aren't.

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Speaker 5: There's awful lot of horrible things that take place there.

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Speaker 4: And so and the public considers that part of the punishment.

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Speaker 5: I don't know whether they consider it part of the punishment,

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Speaker 5: but certain I'm certain they don't want any more of

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Speaker 5: their tax dollar is spent, Okay for it.

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Speaker 2: So here's the rub, and we discussed this as well,

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Speaker 2: and that is it's too bad that you are put

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Speaker 2: in a place with violent criminals as if you are

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Speaker 2: a violent criminal, even before you've been convicted.

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Speaker 4: Well, it seems unfair.

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Speaker 5: That's that's an absolutely legitimate criticism, and I think that's

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Speaker 5: why our Supreme Court has said that we favor the

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Speaker 5: individual's right to bail pending trial because of the presumption

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Speaker 5: of innocence. It really is unfair to put someone in

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Speaker 5: jail while the case is pending simply because they can't

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Speaker 5: make the amount of bail that the court has set.

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Speaker 5: So the court, now Supreme Court has indicated and told

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Speaker 5: told the lower courts that they want reasonable bail, a

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Speaker 5: bail that an individual can make. So the fact is

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Speaker 5: many many more prisoners are not prisoners, but people who

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Speaker 5: have been accused of crimes are now able to make

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Speaker 5: bail unless obviously they pose a danger to the community.

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Speaker 5: And then you now have a dangerousness hearing that in essence,

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Speaker 5: there's no amount of bail that would make sense here,

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Speaker 5: because bail is really designed to make sure you show

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Speaker 5: up for trials. So it should be an amount that

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Speaker 5: is going to be enough to make sure you show

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Speaker 5: up for trial, but not too much that you can't

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Speaker 5: make it. But the dangerousness hearing allows then us to

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Speaker 5: keep people in jail because not because we're worried about

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Speaker 5: them showing up for trial, we're worried about if we

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Speaker 5: release them, they in fact pose a real danger to

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Speaker 5: our community.

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Speaker 4: You know, this just popped into my mind. I'm glad

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Speaker 4: I thought of it. I'm glad I had the opportunity

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Speaker 4: to ask you that.

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Speaker 2: You know, sometimes the penalties for things run like this,

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Speaker 2: three years in jail or a thousand dollars fine, Why

444
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 2: would anyone ever go with the jail? A lot of

445
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 2: times the money is so low compared like for me,

446
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 2: the week in jail is worth ten grand. You know,

447
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 2: I don't want to go to jail at all.

448
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 6: I didn't know you were so rich.

449
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: But if I had the money, and I'm amazed that

450
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 2: the balance that seems so out of whack, that the

451
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: money seems so little compared to the jail.

452
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 5: No, the money, I agree, but it's I don't think

453
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 5: it's I don't think you're reading the statute correctly. It's

454
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 5: three thousand. It's three years in jail and up to

455
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 5: one thousand dollars. I didn't read it. I just made

456
00:24:54,720 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 5: it up, okay, exactly. So it's not that it's an alternative.

457
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 5: If you have money, you get to stay out of jail.

458
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 4: Really, that's what it is.

459
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, it doesn't seem fair Uh, the money is always,

460
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 5: it seems to me, not anywhere near proportionate to what

461
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 5: a day in jail would my point exactly, Well, that's

462
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 5: that is legitimate, But the fine is in addition to

463
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 5: whatever the sentence would be.

464
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 4: Sometimes you get a choice, though, well it's.

465
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,959
Speaker 6: No, it's never going to be your choice.

466
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 4: That's not at the sentencing. But oh, I see, you

467
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 4: never get to choose.

468
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 5: No, no, you don't get to hear. I would rather

469
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 5: pay the money than go to jail. Basic legal The

470
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 5: only place that really applies is if you don't pay

471
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 5: your child support, then you're going to jail at some

472
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 5: point unless you come up with the money to.

473
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 6: Purge yourself of contempt.

474
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 5: But no, sometimes the court and this is actually this

475
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 5: does relate to the Brian Walls case. Is because he

476
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 5: had the outstanding criminal case from California where he was

477
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 5: convicted and he was ordered to do to pay restitution.

478
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 5: He did not pay restitution, and so that's why it

479
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 5: was potentially violating his probation and if he didn't pay

480
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 5: come up with the money, then he was going to

481
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 5: be jailed. So there are situations where what what you're

482
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 5: talking about is actually pretty close to those so at

483
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 5: the risk of doubling down on sounding stuff stupid, how

484
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 5: does a judge or a jerry a judge decide whether

485
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 5: to give you the.

486
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 4: Time or the fine, the time or the fine or both.

487
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 5: Well, in actually what we're saying now is time, a

488
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 5: fine and restitution. So the statue will normally say you

489
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 5: you know, it'll have a sentence of up to say

490
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 5: two and a half years and up to a ten

491
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 5: thousand dollars fine. Just say that that would be separate

492
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 5: from the order of restitution trying to make the person

493
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 5: that you victimized whole. So the judge tries to take

494
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 5: into account what the appropriate sentence would be in prison,

495
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 5: but also to see what would be appropriate.

496
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 6: For a fine.

497
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 5: A lot of times the fine is is much less

498
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 5: and oftentimes not even imposed because the person is not

499
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 5: going to be able to work while obviously they're in

500
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,959
Speaker 5: prison and the court would much prefer to see restitution

501
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 5: made to the victims.

502
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 6: Then the fine go to the state.

503
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 2: And they don't generally trust people to you talk about bail,

504
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 2: but the an ancle bracelet like flight risk and dangerousness,

505
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 2: when they people do they do.

506
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 4: Bail with the.

507
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 6: Leg yes ankle bracelet.

508
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 5: There are conditions like that, you know, no contact with

509
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 5: children under sixteen ankle bracelet. The only place you can

510
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 5: go is to work each day and then back so

511
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 5: that they monitor your activities.

512
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 6: And yes, the quote will do that.

513
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 5: Try to structure conditions of bail to make sure that

514
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 5: you know you're still not living life like the rest

515
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 5: of us want facing such serious criminal charges and that

516
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 5: society is protected to the extent we can protect them

517
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 5: under the circumstances.

518
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 2: All right, So one thing we haven't covered yet. We

519
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 2: have one more segment to go with Michael Coin. We

520
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 2: haven't talked about Trooper Proctor. That's her name. You haven't

521
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 2: heard for a while. Maybe Trooper Proctor kind of in

522
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: the news, and we'll tell you why after this. I'm WBZ.

523
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Ray on Boston's news radio.

524
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 2: Oh, we're right, just a few more minutes with Michael Coin.

525
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: So let's make the most of them. It's been a

526
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: while since we've heard much about the Karen Reid trow jeez,

527
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: but that related things. It's kind of popping up, and

528
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: that is the story of super Proctor continues. And for

529
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: those who just moved to the area or maybe be

530
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 2: listening out of state recap the Karen Reid trial in

531
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 2: thirty seconds or less ye and talk about the role

532
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 2: of Trooper Proctor and why that is relevant today.

533
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 5: Karen Reid was charged with a second degree murder vehicular

534
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 5: manslaughter for killing her boyfriend. Commonwealths believed that it was

535
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 5: as a result of her striking him with her vehicle

536
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 5: on a snowy night down in Canton number.

537
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 6: Of years ago.

538
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 5: First jury was hung and the second jury found her

539
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 5: not guilty except for driving under the influence, and the

540
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 5: case was the object of everyone's attention in this area,

541
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 5: and actually not just even across the nation, but even

542
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 5: overseas in Europe.

543
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 6: It was a.

544
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 5: Fascinating take on the influence of social media in our

545
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 5: cases today.

546
00:29:58,680 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 2: Well, there are a lot of cases and a lot

547
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: of social media. Why this one any idea?

548
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 5: I always believe that in this one people could see

549
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 5: her themselves in her in essence. They can't see themselves

550
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,719
Speaker 5: going out and committing first degree murders, buying the weapon

551
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 5: and really plotting and planning to kill someone, but we've

552
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,479
Speaker 5: probably all had a drink or two too many and

553
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 5: gotten behind the wheel, and I think they could see

554
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 5: themselves that they could find themselves charged with the crime

555
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 5: that as they see it, they didn't commit it and

556
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 5: certainly didn't warrant a second degree murder charge. So I

557
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 5: think there was in part that, and also everyone loves

558
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 5: a good conspiracy. There's a lot going on there, and

559
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 5: the distrust of the government I think is at an

560
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 5: all time low. So you have a lot of confluence

561
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 5: of events here that attracted people to the case in

562
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 5: a significant way.

563
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 2: Did the state overcharge and would they have been better

564
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 2: off just to say she backed up in a huff

565
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 2: and accident to hit them, wouldn't they wouldn't that have

566
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 2: been a better way to go.

567
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, she was overcharged. She shouldn't have been a second

568
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 5: degree murder charge. I mean Dan Conley, the former Suffolk

569
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 5: County district attorney, had said when NBC ten was talking

570
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 5: to him, that we tried these in the district court,

571
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 5: which means not a felony, and we think that that's

572
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 5: where this case is more likely, and that is where

573
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 5: these cases are almost always tried, not superior court. Second

574
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 5: degree murder for a child, for something like this is

575
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 5: an extraordinarily difficult charge. So most of the times you

576
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 5: would find them in the trial court, the district court

577
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 5: as where she would be facing probably up to two

578
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 5: and a half years as a result of these charges.

579
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: So that overcharge really costs the state, like what an

580
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: extra million and a half bucks summer.

581
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 5: Well, I think the second trial alone, by the time

582
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 5: they're done with the expert witnesses and the council that

583
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 5: they hired, was well over a million dollars, So if

584
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 5: you want to include the first trial, they're probably north

585
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 5: of two million dollars on. Ultimately, what they're able to

586
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 5: get is a driving under the influence conviction, which, by

587
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 5: the way, is it is not entirely the district attorney's fault.

588
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 5: It's the failure of law enforcement on many fronts that

589
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 5: that this case turned to absolute uh mess garbage.

590
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 4: Okay, a couple of technical points. What's the ballpark where

591
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 4: these technical that these technical experts get paid paid like

592
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 4: the people that the reconstruction of the tail light people.

593
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 5: Reconstructionists get a lot of money because they have highly

594
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 5: advanced degrees. They know about physics and all sorts of

595
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 5: biomechanics as well as mathematics. You could be looking in

596
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 5: even in a relatively simple case that your your experts

597
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 5: are even in a sort of a regular auto accident

598
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 5: case that it could be north of ten thousand dollars.

599
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 5: In that case, the experts charged closer to four or

600
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 5: five hundred thousand dollars by the time they were done.

601
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 5: They bought purchased a vehicle to be able to do it,

602
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 5: I know, and then hundreds of I always spent trying

603
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 5: to recreate the accident. So accident reconstruction experts are expensive.

604
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 2: So sometimes the expert is a solo operator and they

605
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 2: just get paid. Other times they hire companies, right, and

606
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 2: the actual witness doesn't get paid directly, They just get

607
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: paid by their company.

608
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 5: Well they're an employee, so they get a regular salary.

609
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 5: But you know, and that's a little bit of a game.

610
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 5: You talked about experts too, so you know, if you're

611
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 5: not working, you're not going to be an employee for

612
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 5: very long, so you're still benefiting from having been hired.

613
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 4: And one more quick thing.

614
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 2: In trial, I love to try to beat the attorneys

615
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 2: of the punch on the object and a reason, you.

616
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 4: Know, leading yes askedn't answered.

617
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: However, the judge, at least in that trial, they don't.

618
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 2: They say okay, sustained or overruled. They don't give nobody

619
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 2: says what the objection is. And I wish, I wish

620
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: there would be a rule that made them do that

621
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: so that the people at.

622
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 6: Home can be can't understand and be educated.

623
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 5: Some judges don't want anything more than the objection, so

624
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 5: that you're not trying to influence the jury. Other judges

625
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 5: will allow you to give an infection and a basis.

626
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 5: No judge really wants what we call a speaking objection

627
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,439
Speaker 5: your honor, it's here say because blah blah blah blah blah.

628
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 5: So they don't want the reason not in front of

629
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 5: the jury. If you're going to do that, you come

630
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 5: up to the sidebar, and if it's going to be

631
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 5: a long argument, take the jury out and then we

632
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 5: can argue from the table. So what the concern is

633
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 5: is that juries would hear what is inadmissible evidence and

634
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 5: information and that could affect their decision. So that's why

635
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 5: you don't get your education on all your objections.

636
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: Well, now I don't feel so cheated. So will this

637
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 2: Walt's case be televised?

638
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 6: Oh? Yes, just like that, it's going to be.

639
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 5: It's going to be televised and then the expectation is

640
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,720
Speaker 5: that it will be starting as early as next week

641
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 5: for jury selection. But once it begins trial, which will

642
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 5: probably be December one, it will in fact be televised

643
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 5: and we intend to give it the full Canton confidential

644
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 5: treatment because it's it's a very interesting case and he's

645
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 5: got a chance, because there are some open issues and

646
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 5: there's some questions about the DNA testing and all. In fact,

647
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 5: the DNA had to all be retested because the initial

648
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 5: chemist is unavailable now for trial, so in order to

649
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 5: give him his sixth Amendment confrontation clause right, you had

650
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 5: to retest it, so that witness will have to.

651
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 2: Okay, let's wrap up with how Trooper proc what his

652
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 2: issue was in that case, and how that affects it's

653
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 2: other cases.

654
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 4: We have two minutes.

655
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a it's going to affect potentially up to

656
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 5: twenty cases because the information on his phone now has

657
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 5: been released to a number of defense attorneys under seal,

658
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 5: so we don't all know what it is.

659
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 6: But the argument is is that.

660
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 5: It very well if already we know it shows a

661
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 5: sexist and a prejudging of the defendants' rights, if that

662
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 5: carries over to racist information that's within there inappropriate activities

663
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 5: with respect to witnesses and defendants and the like, and

664
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 5: a prejudging of their cases. The defense lawyers are going

665
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 5: to make a big deal of it because all they

666
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 5: have to do is create a reasonable doubt and it

667
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 5: could affect as many twenties cases, significant serious cases, including murder.

668
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 2: And some of those might get retried at great expense,

669
00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: adding a further cost tos behavior.

670
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 5: No doubt about it, and even not retried the first trials. Now,

671
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,959
Speaker 5: the initial trials that will be coming up are significantly

672
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 5: more expensive because they're battling back and forth almost on

673
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 5: an every other week basis about how much of that

674
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 5: information is going to be useful at trial. So it's

675
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 5: multiple problems with it that it's created for the commonwealth

676
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,840
Speaker 5: because of his unprofessional behavior.

677
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 2: How much of a problem is that The passing of

678
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 2: the time guys for prosecutors when they try to retry.

679
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, the longer it takes from incident to trial, witnesses

680
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 5: memories fade, information gets lost. It makes it significantly harder.

681
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 4: Where will this tild take place?

682
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:51,919
Speaker 5: It's Norfolk County again, Yes, okay, yes, I always get

683
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 5: confused with Cohact because it seems closer to Plymouth contes.

684
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 4: It seems weird that it's in Norfolk County.

685
00:37:58,400 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 6: It is.

686
00:37:58,840 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 4: Wow.

687
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: Well, all right, thank you so much. I appreciate you

688
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: coming by. And before you go, tell me what we're

689
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 2: at school at the Massachusetts School of Law.

690
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 4: What's going on.

691
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,959
Speaker 5: We're just about done this semester. We've got a couple

692
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,840
Speaker 5: more weeks left. We just got approval for a Master's

693
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 5: of Science and Law, which we'll be starting in January

694
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 5: with help from the Comings Foundation, which has supported us

695
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 5: in this endeavor merging law and business because we think

696
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 5: business people need to know more about law, and lawyers

697
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,720
Speaker 5: need to know more about business issues.

698
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 6: So it's an interesting time.

699
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 2: I appreciate you coming by. Folks who have a couple

700
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 2: more topics come up. One of them is going to

701
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 2: be this kind of controversial topic. Do you think that

702
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 2: it is morally okay to order something online for example Amazon,

703
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 2: use it and return it, And you think it's okay

704
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 2: to use it with the intention of using it and

705
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 2: returning it.

706
00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 4: Is that morally okay? Jeff's rich after role, it's w

707
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 4: B's