1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WVZ, Boston's news radio. 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 2: Thank you, Dan Watkins. 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 3: As we move into our nine o'clock hour with me, 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 3: is attorney Wendy Murphy. Wendy's a former prosecutor. She had 5 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 3: been a very active attorney and also a I would 6 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 3: say a bit of an activist. She has always been 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 3: in the forefront of women's rights issues, and she has 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 3: identified a piece of legislation on Beacon Hill that is 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 3: really bothering her, and the more I looked at it, 10 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 3: it bothers me as well. 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 2: Wendy, Welcome back to Nightside. How are you. 12 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 4: I'm well, Dan, Thanks for having me again. 13 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 3: Well, my pleasure, and I hope my identification of you. 14 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 3: You represent all sorts of clients, but you are very 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 3: interested and you have always been identified as an attorney 16 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 3: who's very concerned about. 17 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 2: The rights of women. 18 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 4: The rights of women, yes, in general, and the specific 19 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 4: rights of women who've been abused, raped, and so forth. 20 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 4: That is my particular subspecialty absolutely my whole career. 21 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 22 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 3: And of course, as as a prosecutor, you often were 23 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 3: supporting victims of crime. So this piece of legislation, which 24 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 3: is probably inaptly titled the Massachusetts Survivors Act has gotten 25 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 3: your attention. I read the piece that you wrote in 26 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 3: the in the Herald a few days ago, and that's 27 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 3: why we are here. I use the phrase ineptly titled. 28 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 3: I don't think it's much to do with the with survivors, 29 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 3: to be honest with you, I think it's more the 30 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 3: the the the Massachusetts Protection Act for abusers and rapists 31 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 3: and murderers. 32 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 5: Yeah. 33 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 4: Absolutely. And you know, I don't know if there's a 34 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 4: word for what lawmakers are doing when they call something 35 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 4: one phrase but it actually means the opposite. I have 36 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 4: no doubt this is common when they're trying to sneak 37 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 4: something under the radar by mischaracterizing it in its title. 38 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 3: Misleading that I mean, it's just genuinely misleading. And you 39 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 3: hear the word survivors and immediately you say, so, well, 40 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 3: that must be good. I'm glad they're working on something 41 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 3: finally that helps someone. But you view it differently. So 42 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 3: I want to Yes, you give you the opportunity because 43 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 3: it's your column. 44 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 2: You wrote it. Well, I've read it. 45 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 3: I've actually gone and read the Act also today, and 46 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 3: I think you have a very accurate description of this 47 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 3: inaptly titled proposed piece of legislation. 48 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 4: So the floor is yours, well, thank you. And I 49 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 4: started off by saying, it's incredibly frustrating for me to 50 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 4: see a law framed like that, because as an advocate 51 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,679 Speaker 4: for victims, I'm excited when I see a title like that, Oh, 52 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 4: let me see what they're trying to do to help victims. 53 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 4: And then when I read it, my heart just sank. 54 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 4: I mean, what it does is it gives criminals, rapists, murderers, 55 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 4: sex traffickers, child pornographers. It doesn't matter if you're a 56 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 4: serial killer or if you have trafficked babies, it doesn't matter. 57 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 4: This law will give you, the criminal, a right to 58 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 4: file a motion with the court, taxpayer funded attorney, a 59 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 4: motion with the court asking for either your case to 60 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 4: be eventually dismissed. Of course, that means you haven't been 61 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 4: convicted yet, or if you've already been convicted, like let's 62 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 4: say you're doing life without parole right now for murder. 63 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 4: Another thing the bill lets you do is file emotion 64 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 4: and go to court and ask for your life without 65 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 4: parole sentence to be reduced to ten years or less. 66 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 4: And here's what you need to do. This is the 67 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 4: only thing you have to do as a criminal. You 68 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 4: get to file this motion no matter what crime you committed, 69 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 4: so long as you said been an acid David saying 70 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 4: that you were abused at some time before the crime, 71 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 4: and get this definition of abuse for the purpose of 72 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 4: the law. The definition of abuse short includes being raped 73 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 4: and beaten and so forth, but it also includes this 74 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 4: that someone made you feel scared, not touched you, not 75 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 4: raped you, not hit you, but they caused you to 76 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 4: feel traumatized and afraid, even if only with words. 77 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 3: Then tell you I'm right now going to claim that 78 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 3: I was abused. I'll state this publicly because I felt 79 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 3: scared of Sister Francis to sales the principle of say no, 80 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 3: she was lovely. I'm only teasing. Obviously, if you're a 81 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 3: kid and someone doesn't scare you, whether it's your father 82 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 3: or your mother or the neighbor whose window you broke, 83 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 3: I mean, this is crazy. 84 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 2: This is crazy. 85 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 3: This is getting people a complete free past. 86 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 4: And then, by the way, let me be clear, I'm 87 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 4: not saying judges are required to grant your motion. What's 88 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 4: nutty about this, though, is that it allows you to 89 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 4: ask and because of how broad the definition of abuses. 90 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 4: Every single criminal at Walpole right now, at Cedar Junction, 91 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 4: or at any of the other facilities, no matter what 92 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 4: they're in for, has a right, at tax payer expense, 93 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 4: to go to court, submit an affidavit and demand some 94 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 4: sympathy that they probably already brought up when they were 95 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 4: sentenced the first time. Because you know, when I was 96 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 4: a prosecutor forty years ago, if you committed a crime 97 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 4: and then the judge had to figure out what punishment 98 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 4: you had get, you were allowed to say I was 99 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 4: abused as a child, and none yelled at me, my 100 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 4: mother slapped me, whatever. So it's already been taken into account, 101 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 4: and now you get this kiss from the legislature. That's 102 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 4: more than just compassion. This is the deepest discount I've 103 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 4: ever seen in Massachusetts lawmaking history. Life without parole down 104 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 4: to under ten years because someone yelled at you when 105 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 4: you were a kid. Get out of here. 106 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 3: So I know that these pieces of legislation are hard 107 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 3: to follow. First of all, who are some of the 108 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 3: legislators who are pushing this idea? And why would of 109 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 3: all the problems we're facing now we have the people 110 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 3: who can't get food. We have people who can find housing. 111 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 3: We have all sorts of problems. We're going to have heating, 112 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 3: oil problems and cold weather problems in the next few months, 113 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 3: next few weeks, maybe the next few days. Actually I 114 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 3: should amend that. Who are the legislators who have enough 115 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 3: time in their hands and why are they looking after 116 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,239 Speaker 3: the rights of people who have committed some horrific crimes. Again, 117 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 3: there's no need for this piece of legislation. Any lawyer 118 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 3: worth his or her assault at the time of sentencing 119 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 3: would be making emotion to the judge to consider whatever 120 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 3: circumstances they should consider when they sentence someone who's been 121 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 3: convicted of a crime. 122 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 4: Yes, well, let me say this. I don't want to 123 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 4: take up your entire show listing the number of state 124 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 4: representatives who signed on. But there are twenty one of them, 125 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 4: and at the time off of the list is a 126 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 4: representative named Barber. I don't know if you know her. 127 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 4: I don't dealt with her. 128 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 3: I've tried to deal with her. She always refuses to 129 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 3: come on the show. She's from somewhere in western Massachusetts, 130 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 3: and she does get involved in issues and legislation that 131 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 3: always attracts my attention. 132 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 4: I think, oh, well, that's interesting, isn't it. And then 133 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 4: there's a Senate version of the bill. You know how 134 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 4: this works, Dan, There's a House bill, there's a Senate bill, 135 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 4: and usually they match, or sometimes they have a little 136 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 4: bit of difference between them. Here are some of the 137 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 4: Senate leaders. I wanted you to know. Barber was the 138 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,559 Speaker 4: leader on the House, but there are twenty one people 139 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 4: who put their name on this and the Senate bill 140 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 4: is the leader is Michael Rush. 141 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 3: Rush is a rational individual, at least when I knew 142 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 3: him out of West Roxbury, I believe. When I saw 143 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 3: that he was the lead sponsor in the Senate, it 144 00:08:58,920 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 3: really stunned me. 145 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:00,719 Speaker 2: To be honest with you. 146 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 4: Well, you know, I don't we can talk about I 147 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 4: can tell you what I think about what motivates people 148 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 4: to do this. But Jason Lewis is on there, Mike Connolly. 149 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 4: I don't really know these people, because again it's not. 150 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: Conley. Lewis and Conley. 151 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 3: I would expect they are very progressive and they I'm 152 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 3: sure that this for them is an opportunity to virtue signal, 153 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 3: but it does, as you say, diminish the rights of 154 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 3: the actual victims. And that is not to say that 155 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 3: someone cannot have a bad experience as a ten year 156 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 3: old or a six year old, and it doesn't have 157 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 3: to you know, get up to sexual abuse. But you 158 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 3: can have a tough childhood. A lot of people have 159 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 3: tough childhoods. But when they go out and they rape 160 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 3: someone else, or they light someone on fire in the subway, 161 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 3: as we've seen now happen twice today in Chicago and somewhere. 162 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 3: There's a lot of real tough criminals. 163 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 2: There these days, yep. 164 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 4: And we like to think that there's a reason they 165 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 4: do it, and it's tied to childhood. It makes us 166 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 4: feel better that we can say, oh, had they only 167 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 4: had a loving family, this might not have happened. Let 168 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 4: me be clear, because I've represented women who've been extremely 169 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 4: abused throughout their lives and in very severe ways, and 170 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 4: they never hurt a fly. So when I hear a 171 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 4: member of the state legislature say, well, this is a 172 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 4: way of respecting women abuse victims, because it recognizes that 173 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,439 Speaker 4: they might just go and beat up their abuser if 174 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 4: they get desperate, what I hear when I hear them 175 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,440 Speaker 4: say that is you're out of your mind. Most abused 176 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 4: women never hurt a fly. If anything, they hurt themselves. 177 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 4: They don't hurt others. This bill is about helping abusive men, 178 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 4: for the most part, who would abuse and steal and 179 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 4: rob and kill regardless of their childhood. That's what we 180 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 4: keep forgetting. Yes, people with tough childhood can go down 181 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 4: the wrong path, but being yelled at by your parent 182 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 4: or even being hit does not cause you to hit 183 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 4: someone else. It doesn't cause crime period. 184 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 3: My guest is Attorney Wendy Murphy. She is a prosecutor. 185 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 3: She's also been a defense attorney, and she has been 186 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 3: in the forefront of victims' rights, and particularly when those 187 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 3: victims are women. She has identified this piece of legislation 188 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 3: at Beacon Hill. It's amazing to me that this legislation 189 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 3: is contemplated and filed. I do not see any benefit 190 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 3: to it. If any of these state representatives or state 191 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 3: senators would like to join us, not tonight, but at 192 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 3: any time later this week or next week to talk 193 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 3: about this. I have called Representative my team have called 194 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 3: Representative Christine Barber. Very rarely do we ever get even 195 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 3: the courtesy of a phone call back, but I would 196 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 3: love to have some of you who are listening tonight, 197 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 3: contact us and tell us if you think this makes 198 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 3: any sense. Do we need more laws at the Statehouse 199 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,719 Speaker 3: on the books with all the problems that we are 200 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 3: dealing with right now? You know, Snap recipients are having 201 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 3: trouble getting their Snap cards refilled so their families can 202 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 3: be fed. We're now three weeks into November. We obviously 203 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 3: have a winter season coming up, all sorts of questions 204 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 3: about heating bills, gas bills, electric bills, and even the 205 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 3: availability for some people to get heat. There's all sorts 206 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 3: of issues, and yet our legislature seems to focus on this. 207 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 3: Wendy's explained it very well. I'm sure most of you 208 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 3: can follow what she said. Love to have you join 209 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 3: the conversation six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty 210 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 3: six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty And it's 211 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:10,560 Speaker 3: simplest form. If someone commits a horrific crime of sexual abuse, 212 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 3: domestic abuse, murder, rape, you name it, with this piece 213 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 3: of legislation, judges would be obligated, obligated to deal with 214 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 3: as an additional issue post conviction, pre sentencing, and as 215 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 3: Wendy indicated, a lot of this Apparently, Wendy, it has 216 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 3: some retroactivity. So even people who are currently incarcerated for 217 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 3: crimes committed in the past would be able still if 218 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 3: this piece of legislation passed, avail themselves of this legislation 219 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 3: and go in and file motions to have their sentences reduced. 220 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 3: I that's what I understand you to say. 221 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 2: Okay, we'll take a break. 222 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 3: The numbers as always six one, seven, two, five, four 223 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 3: ten thirty, six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty. 224 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 3: Most of us do not have the time the ability 225 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 3: to monitor legislation as it is proposed, and oftentimes we 226 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 3: are saying, how did that pass? Well, Wendy Murphy tonight 227 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 3: is basically doing what all of us probably aren't able 228 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 3: to do. She's identified this piece of legislation. I'd like 229 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 3: to hear some outrage six one, seven, two, five, four 230 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 3: ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty, 231 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 3: or in the alternative, if you think this is a 232 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 3: great idea, feel free to join the conversation and tell 233 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 3: us why Wendy Murphy is wrong and why I'm wrong 234 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 3: on this piece of legislation. Back on Nightside. 235 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: Right up to this Night Side with Dan Ray on 236 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: WBZ Boston's news radio, We're. 237 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 3: With Wendy Murphy. She's an attorney and she's she's identified 238 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 3: this piece of legislation at Beacon Hill. There's no way 239 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 3: on on at this moment, by the way, to understand 240 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 3: what the potential future of this legislation is. However, Wendy, 241 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 3: when you look at the number of legislators who have 242 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 3: signed on as co sponsors, it's a significant group in 243 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 3: both the House and Senate side. In our conversations today, 244 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 3: it sounds to me as if you were pointing this out, 245 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 3: you know, raising the alarm whatever you want to call it, 246 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 3: because this is one that you think has the potential 247 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 3: to pass. It sounds to me that you're concerned about this. 248 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 3: This is this is not an idle column that you wrote. 249 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 3: This is one that I can read the passion and 250 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 3: the concern between the lines very very clearly. 251 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 4: Yes, I do think this is one of those bills that, 252 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 4: for whatever reason, is heavily funded. I can talk later 253 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 4: about who I think the dollars are coming from. I 254 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 4: think it's heavily funded, and those tend to go very 255 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 4: quickly from start to finish. This bill was filed in 256 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 4: February of this year, and it's already out with a 257 00:15:55,400 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 4: favorable vote from the Joint Judiciary Committee. That does not 258 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 4: happen often bills, as you know, can take years to 259 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 4: get anywhere before the first time round on a Judiciary 260 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 4: committee hearing it's going to go into a study. I mean, 261 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 4: they just don't do this. But it was voted out 262 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 4: favorably just over a month ago, and now it's in 263 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 4: ways and means, yes, there's still a lot left to go, 264 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 4: but there's agreement on the language. There's agreement on all 265 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 4: the thing between both houses on what we've discussed in 266 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 4: terms of how easy it is to file, how the 267 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 4: taxpayers are going to have to fund it, how judges 268 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 4: have basically total discretion. I mean, there is a standard 269 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 4: of proof for some of it. A judge, under one 270 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 4: of the conditions, if he finds by or she finds 271 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 4: by a mere preponderance of evidence that there's some abuse 272 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 4: in the history of the criminal and that it's related 273 00:16:55,120 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 4: not causal, doesn't cause the crime, but is somehow to 274 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 4: why the crime occurred, that judge is basically required to 275 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 4: grant some kind of relief either pushed the case off 276 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 4: into some kind of diversion program if there's no conviction 277 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 4: yet and then eventually the diversion program cases get dismissed. 278 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, they become you know, a continuous without a finding 279 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: a cooth. 280 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 4: Yes, And this bill says they get dismissed if you 281 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 4: get a diversion gift. And then again, as you pointed out, 282 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 4: if you're in Walpole doing life for serial killing, and 283 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 4: you file one of these motions and the judge makes 284 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 4: a determination by a certain standard of proof that your 285 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 4: childhood or some abuse you suffered is related to why 286 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 4: you became a serial killer, you're basically walking free because 287 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 4: your sentence goes down to ten years or less, not 288 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 4: twenty years or less. Ten ten years or less. Well 289 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 4: has already passed the Joint Judiciary Committee with a favorable vote. 290 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 4: It's not in a study to see if they can 291 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 4: tweak the language. 292 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 6: Yeah, that is the Rocket talcket. 293 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. 294 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 3: And the other thing is we're not coming up in 295 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 3: the end of a legislative session. This is an odd 296 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 3: year number meeting twenty twenty five. There's still a full 297 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 3: year left in this legislative session until well January of 298 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 3: twenty twenty seven, or for all intents and purposes, thirt 299 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 3: twenty of the time thirteen plenty of time thirteen more months. 300 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 3: So let's let's take a break here for the news 301 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 3: at the bottom of the r which we are required 302 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 3: to do. And when we get back, I want to 303 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 3: talk about some of the funding and I want to 304 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 3: talk about the motivation because I just don't understand how 305 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 3: the empathy of so many of these state legislators can 306 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 3: be so misplaced that the empathy is not with the 307 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 3: true victims, the most recent victims. It's with the criminals 308 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 3: who have committed these crimes. Even though the title is 309 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 3: the Massachusetts Survivors Act. And yes, I would assume that 310 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 3: that any person who faces a criminal prosecution or a 311 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 3: criminal conviction can point to something backwards in their own life, 312 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 3: in their own experience, which would suggest some level of discomfort, 313 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 3: and there could be some genuine, you know, abuse issues. 314 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 3: Not try to diminish that, but as you said, many 315 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 3: abuse victims get on with their life and the last 316 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 3: thing they want to do is inflict on another child 317 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 3: which might have been inflicted upon them. It's almost insulting 318 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 3: to thee to the abuse victims who live their lives 319 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 3: beyond reproach. I have wide open lines, ladies and gentlemen, 320 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 3: if you think that this is a piece of legislation 321 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 3: that you agree with, feel free to give us a 322 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 3: call if you disagree six seven both six one seven 323 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 3: two five four ten thirty or six one seven nine 324 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 3: three one ten thirty. Don't call me a year from 325 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 3: now or six months when this passes, because now is 326 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,360 Speaker 3: the time to talk about it and hopefully energize other 327 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 3: people to let their friends know about it, and talk 328 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 3: to your state rep and let them know this is 329 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 3: a step too far, even from Massachusetts. 330 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 2: Back on Nightside right after. 331 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 1: This, It's Night Side with Ray Boston's news radio Werendya. 332 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 3: A lot of people I think should understand that this 333 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 3: is a complicated. 334 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 2: Issue, but it's a serious issue, okay, in which there 335 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: will be more. We have seen in recent days. 336 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 3: I don't know if you saw that horrific event out 337 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 3: in Chicago where a woman was lit on fire on 338 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 3: what the l trains? You saw the woman down in Charlotte, 339 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,719 Speaker 3: North Carolina, who was stabbed by this guy for no 340 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 3: reason at all. This stuff happens, and I have learned 341 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 3: from doing this show that many people are concerned about it, 342 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 3: but they're not concerned enough to speak up about it. 343 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 3: I don't know if people are scared or if people 344 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 3: are intimidated. But you did mention, and I want people 345 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 3: to get the whole story here, that there are some 346 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 3: very significant forces behind this type of legislation and the 347 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 3: finances that are behind this sort of legislation, because I 348 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 3: don't understand why anybody would say, oh, this sounds like 349 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 3: a great idea, let's give a break to rapist murderers 350 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 3: and child molesters, which is what this legislation would do, 351 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 3: because they had a bad experience. You know, their parents 352 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 3: gave them apple juice instead of orange juice or something 353 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 3: like that, and they were they were traumatized. Talk to 354 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 3: us about the funding, because you've got to always follow 355 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 3: the money. 356 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, I'm so glad you said that. It is 357 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 4: how I It's not cynical, by the way, to follow 358 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 4: the money. It's just the right thing to do. It's pragmatic. 359 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 4: You follow the money because if you know anything about 360 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 4: how lawmaking works, not just in Massachusetts but in general, 361 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 4: the well funded bills go to the top of the list, 362 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 4: They get lots of signatures, and they go zip through 363 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 4: the process and become law before you blink your eyes. 364 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 4: Often they go through covertly because the you know, if 365 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 4: a bill is clearly not what the public would want, 366 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 4: it's got to go through under the radar. And that 367 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,360 Speaker 4: is part of what we're seeing with this bill. Obviously 368 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 4: it's an irrational, nutty bill, so it hasn't gotten a 369 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,640 Speaker 4: lot of press. If it was actually good for humanity, 370 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 4: it'd be on the front page of the globe every 371 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 4: day and people would know about it. 372 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 3: You know, is your article in the first second paragraph 373 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 3: points out it's the Massachusetts Survivors Act. I mean, who, right, 374 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 3: you know, would say, well, I don't want to vote 375 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 3: for that if you say, of course, we've got survivors, 376 00:22:58,640 --> 00:22:59,640 Speaker 3: we want to support them. 377 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 2: But it's not quite what it sounds like. Oh so 378 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 2: where's the money coming out? 379 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 4: No? No, And not only that, since my article came out, 380 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 4: people have been very comfortable communicating with me in social 381 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 4: media or whatever, saying why don't you care about victims? 382 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 4: You know they need this kind of compassion, And so 383 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 4: it takes a lot more effort now for me to 384 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 4: explain why. It's not a lack of compassion. It's the 385 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 4: right kind of compassion that I have. And I am 386 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 4: not stupid, and I don't think people in Massachusetts are stupid, 387 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 4: But I think so, here's the thing. Number one, why 388 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 4: would this bill be going through so quickly? Answer, because 389 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 4: there's a lot of funding behind it. Well, where would 390 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 4: that funding come from? Who benefits? This is what I 391 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 4: always think. Who benefits financially from this bill passing? The 392 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 4: short answer is organized crime, illegal crimes, you know, sex traffickers, 393 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 4: the porn you know, the illegal child porn industry, and 394 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 4: drug dealing, all of the dark, ugly, dirty money benefits. 395 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 4: Why because when they're clients and I mean their producers 396 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 4: go to prison, they can't make profits, they can't make 397 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 4: new product, they can't go get new children, new victims, 398 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,959 Speaker 4: they can't shoot other gang members. You know, there's a 399 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 4: lot here that if you just pull back the layers 400 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 4: a little bit, you see that if drug dealers kill 401 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 4: each other because they did something to hone in on 402 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 4: each other's territory, you now are doing life behind bars. Well, 403 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 4: you can't now help fuel the illegal drug industry. So 404 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 4: if you get out under this special law, you're back 405 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 4: on the streets making money for the illegal drug industry. 406 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 7: Can I. 407 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 2: In a word, when they you're back in the game. 408 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 4: You're back in the you're back to work. You're back 409 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 4: to work. 410 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 5: Now. 411 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 4: I can't prove to you where dark money comes from. 412 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 4: That's the nature of dark money that it gets funneled 413 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 4: through proxy groups. So, not surprisingly, Jane Doe is one 414 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 4: of the LEA supporters on this. Jane Doe is the 415 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 4: statewide group that organizes rape crisis centers and battered women's programs. 416 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 4: Now you're shaking your head. What is wrong with these people? 417 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 4: Why would they do this? Well, funding comes to mind. 418 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 4: If they get a boatload of money and the money says, 419 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 4: we're going to keep giving you this money year after 420 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 4: year as a donation. But here's what we want you 421 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 4: to support, this silly idea that this is a compassionate 422 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 4: way to deal with violence against women. And they'll take it. 423 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 4: They will sell their mother's soul for cash. That's the 424 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 4: kind of organization they are. You give them money, you 425 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 4: might be deep dark money, but if you give it 426 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 4: to a group like Jane Doe, they will promote your bill, 427 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 4: even if it causes more rape, more abuse, more violence 428 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 4: against women. 429 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 2: Now, Jane Doe as an organization has a great reputation. 430 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 4: Not with people that I know, not at all, not 431 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 4: at all know. 432 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 3: But what I'm saying is I've never seen and I'm 433 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 3: not challenging you on it, because you know this area 434 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 3: very well, this is where you practice. But I've only 435 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 3: seen glowing reports about the Jane Do organization. 436 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 4: Well, let me tell you this other one, Dan, let 437 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 4: me tell you this one before you move on. About 438 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 4: ten years ago, they actively and aggressively promoted a law 439 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 4: that gave parental rights to rapists who impregnate their victims, 440 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 4: even if the victim is a child whoa exactly, you 441 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 4: should be shocked, you should be disgusted, and you should 442 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 4: always remember that about them. They openly supported it, saying, well, 443 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 4: judges are giving parental rights to the rapist anyway, so 444 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 4: we figured we may as well just you know, make 445 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 4: a law about it. No an asinine reason to do it. 446 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,239 Speaker 3: The difference for people to understand, and I think it's 447 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 3: an important point you're making. 448 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 2: I just want to help you with it here. 449 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 3: The difference is you can have a wacky judge who 450 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 3: has discretion within his or her courtroom and baking him 451 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 3: down with some crazy rulings, and there's very little that 452 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 3: can be done to, you know, to take it. A 453 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 3: bad judge off the bench, and occasionally they cannot be 454 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 3: budges bad judges off of the bench. But once it's 455 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 3: a legislative, legislatively mandated, the judge doesn't have a choice. 456 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 3: There's no discretion. 457 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 4: And that's exactly right now that the judge says, well, 458 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 4: I'm supposed to do this as long as they prove 459 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 4: by such and such an amount of evidence, Well, guess 460 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 4: what the evidence that a criminal needs. Again, we're talking 461 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 4: about serials, serial killers, child rapists, the worst of the worst. 462 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 4: All they need is their word. There doesn't have to 463 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 4: be any corroboration, there doesn't have to be any proof. 464 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 3: Justice which is about what people don't realize. That is 465 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 3: that you swear to something and uh, and the the 466 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 3: person who signs the affidavit doesn't know anything about the 467 00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 3: underlying truth. All they can say is that they were 468 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 3: a witness and then you signed the affidavit in front 469 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 3: of them. 470 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 4: How do you discredit them? 471 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 2: Again, I think the standard is more likely than not 472 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 2: preponderance of the evidence. 473 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:14,199 Speaker 5: That's that's right. 474 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 4: That's for the diversion cases, and that's the most important 475 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 4: one because that gets you the discount before you even 476 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 4: go to prison. 477 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 3: You don't even go let me get a caller in 478 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 3: here for us, and then we're going to have to 479 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 3: take a quick break. We will get to everybody who's 480 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 3: on the line, so please stay there, Terry and Harwich. Terry, 481 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 3: you lead us off tonight. Your thoughts on this conversation 482 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 3: with Wendy Murphy. Say he to Wendy and you're on 483 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 3: the air. 484 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 4: Go right ahead, Terry, Hi, Dan, thank you for. 485 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 8: Taking my cur Atturney Murphy. I'm honored to speak with you. 486 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 8: I am so thankful that there are people like you 487 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 8: watching what's happening, because this is shocking in a word, 488 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 8: and I just can't even believe that this is happening. 489 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 8: There are so many things Beacon Hill can be focused 490 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 8: on that are important. They should never be helping evil, 491 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 8: evil criminals to get a lesser sentence. They get enough 492 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 8: of that from from the people in Washington, d C. 493 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 8: They don't need help locally. We could whack a noodles 494 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 8: and I refuse this. 495 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 4: Oh, that's a federal case. This doesn't reply to federal cases. 496 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 3: But the principal, but I think Terry's question is if 497 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 3: there was a statute like this federally, assuming that that Senaia, 498 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 3: you know, again is he's been convicted. The only thing 499 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 3: on appeal for him is the death penalty. It is 500 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 3: a federal case, but the the the principal Terry is 501 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 3: correct that that if it was a federal statute and 502 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 3: in federal court, the defense layer could Terry, what you 503 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 3: got to do is when you're down there, talk to 504 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 3: your friends, let them know about it, and they need 505 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 3: to talk to their state legislator down. 506 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 8: There to I will call her tomorrow. You can be 507 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 8: sure of that because I know her. 508 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 5: Okay, this is awful. 509 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 4: It's called I think. 510 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 8: I think you, Attorney Murphy, because I had no idea 511 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 8: this was going on. There's so much there's so much 512 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 8: distraction in everybody's lives today. Every second there seems to 513 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 8: be a new Pandora's box stick gets open. There's no 514 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 8: way you could keep your eye on every single thing 515 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 8: that's happening. 516 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 2: Well, that's what that's why you listen, horrible, that's why 517 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 2: you listen to Night Side, Terry, and thank you for listening. Okay. 518 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 3: It's called the Massachusetts the inaptively named Massachusetts Survivors Act. 519 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 2: Terry, I get you before the break, but we got 520 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 2: to go to break. Thank you so much. 521 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 8: I hope you both have a wonderful Thanksgiving with all 522 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 8: of your loved ones. Thank you so much. 523 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 4: Good night Banks. 524 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 2: Terry is a dear friend of mine. Dear friend of mine. 525 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 3: We'll be back on Night's Side right after this couple 526 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 3: of quick calls and we'll wrap it up with Wendy Murphy. 527 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 2: Stay right there. If you're on the line, we will 528 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 2: get to you. I promise. 529 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Boston's News Radio. 530 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 3: By the way, I would remiss if I if I 531 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 3: did not mention that Wendy is involved in a pretty 532 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 3: big case in federal court dealing with the right for 533 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 3: women in America to register for the draft, that that 534 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 3: obligation still rests on menu you. 535 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 2: That case is going to be heard, I believe sometime 536 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 2: in December. 537 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 4: Wendy, Yes, thanks so much for mentioning December sixteenth. If 538 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 4: anybody wants to there, it's two o'clock with Judge Young 539 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 4: and Federal Courthouse down the seaport, and it's a really 540 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 4: important case because women are citizens, and with as citizens, 541 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 4: we have rights and responsibilities, and we want both. We 542 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 4: don't want to be seen as people who only demand 543 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 4: rights but don't want to have the same responsibilities as men. 544 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 4: We want both and that's what my case is about. 545 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 3: All right, well, we will be following that case as well. 546 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 3: In the meantime, let me get to I'm going to 547 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 3: try to get to three calls quickly. Let's see what 548 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 3: we can do. 549 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 2: Fill in Boston, Phil, you've been winning the longest your 550 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 2: next one night, Siger, right. 551 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 7: Ahead, thank you. I can in this kind of leap. 552 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 7: But isn't the when you're in trial, defense lawyer would 553 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 7: present these things that are judge and they wouldn't make 554 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 7: depending on the situation with whose abuse the child, the butter, 555 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 7: bngled or bong. Shouldn't that be taken care of without 556 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 7: the law in the court level? 557 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 3: Phil, Phil, I just want to don't want to cutch 558 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 3: your short here, but you've called late and I just. 559 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:04,959 Speaker 2: You're correct. You're correct. 560 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 3: Normally, if a conviction occurs, it probably very rarely is 561 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 3: going to be allowed in uh, in front of a jury, 562 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 3: because there'd be questions of relevance, okay, uh and it 563 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 3: you know it, it also would in my in my opinion, 564 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 3: it would not be relevant. Some medical people would say 565 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 3: one thing, some medical people would say something else. You know, again, 566 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 3: Wendy can contradict me if she wants. The time set 567 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 3: might be raised would be post conviction, prior to sense. 568 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 4: Yes, well, well one other one other might be if 569 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 4: your defense is insanity, then you can bring up anything 570 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 4: that's ever happened to you in your whole life. 571 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 2: Oh sure, but I'm talking. Yeah, but I'm talking. That's weird. 572 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 2: That's not what we're talking about here. But yeah, you're 573 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 2: if you're going to do. 574 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 4: It in sanity place. Yeah, or if it's self defense 575 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 4: and the abuse is happening to you right now and 576 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 4: then you kill someone, that's different. We're talking about abuse 577 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,719 Speaker 4: that has nothing thing to do with why you committed 578 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 4: the crime, and this law will suddenly make it relevant. 579 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 4: As Dan said, even though and I want to be clear, 580 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,439 Speaker 4: even though it's not relevant at the time of trial, 581 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 4: it is always fair game at the time of sentencing, 582 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 4: and you would you would get you would get sued 583 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 4: for malpractice as a defense attorney if you didn't bring 584 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 4: up somebody's abuse during sentencing, because that does get you 585 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 4: the sympathy that maybe you deserve a little, right, and 586 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 4: then it's. 587 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 3: The point is currently feel your correct, it's the discretion 588 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 3: of the judge. This is going to obligate all judges 589 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,280 Speaker 3: to uh with when if this is on the books, 590 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 3: that's going on, Phil, if you listened a little earlier, 591 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 3: it is going along at a very fast pace, which 592 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 3: might indicate that the skids have been greased. If you 593 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 3: get my draft, yeah, I know you do. Okay, and 594 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 3: that's why we're kind of blowing the whistle, Phil. I 595 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:57,800 Speaker 3: want to try to get a couple more in. 596 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 2: Okay, thanks for good night. Let me go to Laurie 597 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 2: in Idaho. Hey, Laurie, next on nightside. 598 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 6: Hey there, So yes, I'm obviously in Idaho, but I've 599 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 6: been in Massachusetts for years and this is appalling and 600 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,320 Speaker 6: thank you turning four bringing this to everybody's attention. And 601 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,399 Speaker 6: my eyes are going to be wide open no matter 602 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 6: where I live based on this stuff. But I have 603 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 6: a lot of friends in Massachusetts too, and I'm not 604 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 6: sure they're aware, so I'm going to be letting them know. 605 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 6: So I really appreciate you bringing this to our attention. 606 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 4: We thank you. That's what we need. That's exactly what 607 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 4: we need people like you making it an issue at 608 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 4: Thank you. 609 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 2: Laurie, Thank you so much. I appreciate it very much. 610 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 6: Okay, yep, all right, thank you, thank you, bye bye. 611 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 3: Quickly to the point last call, Tony and Brockton. Tony, 612 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 3: you are with Wendy Murphy. Go right ahead, Tony real quick. 613 00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 5: Dan, old friends in you're a hero, Dan to a 614 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 5: lot of us and as well as Wendy. Complete hero. 615 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 5: Wish I had more time. Very quickly. You mentioned where 616 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 5: the money's coming from. Obvious question unless I miss it, 617 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 5: where's it going? If there's a court case the attorneys? 618 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 5: But it's not as legislator, I know you laughing. Okay, 619 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 5: it sounds like what we're saying here is the money's 620 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 5: going to the legislators. 621 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 4: Well, you know there's a reason they all. 622 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 2: Wendy, go ahead, anything make the connection. You know, Wendy 623 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 2: is not knowing anyone individually here. Okay, No, no, I'm not. 624 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 4: I'm not. But I'm not the first person to notice 625 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 4: that certain people get very wealthy after they become members 626 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,239 Speaker 4: of the legislature or Congress, even though their salaries don't 627 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 4: exactly justify their new purchases. We're not stupid people. The 628 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 4: fact is lobbyists spend money either for re election campaigns, 629 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 4: and it goes right into those conference or it goes 630 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 4: indirectly through some other way that benefits people who are 631 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 4: making these laws happen. I've had good ideas for laws. 632 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:53,800 Speaker 4: If it doesn't go to the state House with a 633 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 4: bucket of cash, I might get somebody to support it, 634 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,080 Speaker 4: maybe one person, maybe two, But it doesn't get the 635 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:04,240 Speaker 4: attention this is getting. This is a heavy money, heavy 636 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 4: dark money funded bill, and we'll never see the exact 637 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 4: source because that's. 638 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 5: I just wanted to make sure we further close the 639 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 5: loop on where it could be goin. I think don't 640 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 5: pay attention to this stuff, and they don't know. 641 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 2: Tony. I think you helped close the loop or loop 642 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 2: or connect the dots. Thank you so much. Okay, hey, 643 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 2: well good Thanks Tony. Wendy. We will follow this. We'll 644 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 2: continue to follow. 645 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 3: We'll also follow the case about women wanting to have 646 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,720 Speaker 3: the right to register for the draft. 647 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 2: So thank you for what you do. 648 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,760 Speaker 3: I hope people will get a chance they can google 649 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 3: the article that you that appeared in the Herald earlier 650 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 3: this week. Beacon Hill shouldn't excuse rape and murder by 651 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 3: Wendy Murphy, Attorney Wendy Murphy. 652 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Dan, thank you, thank you talk soon. 653 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 2: Okay, here comes to ten o'clock News. 654 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 3: We're going to talk about a really crazy set of 655 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,240 Speaker 3: stories that have happened in the last twenty four hours 656 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 3: involving some Democrats and President Trump. 657 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 2: I think they're all off base.