Speaker 1: Don't want to be an American idiot.
Speaker 2: Our Scott's flowing back on seven hundred. WW got a
Speaker 2: busy day ahead, y'all.
Speaker 1: Coming up at ten o'clock or thereabouts, we'll have a
Speaker 1: press conference, live press conference, and it's going to be
Speaker 1: the lawyer for Police Chief Terry Thiji, who is on
Speaker 1: now paid administrative leave. And it feels like it sounds
Speaker 1: like it looks like she's getting fired, but that hasn't
Speaker 1: happened yet. This whole thing has been headled poorly from
Speaker 1: the jump, and I've not even talked about the issue
Speaker 1: of the violent crime in downtown Cincinnati. So we'll have
Speaker 1: that for you live at ten to six. More on this.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about more about nine to thirty five. But
Speaker 1: in the interim, we have a major security breach into
Speaker 1: our infrastructure by the Chinese, and you didn't hear about
Speaker 1: that because it's been overshadowed by yesterday's massive Amazon Web
Speaker 1: Services outage. If you use things like Alexa or Prime Video,
Speaker 1: or have blank security systems or Coinbase, which is crypto
Speaker 1: government gateway services, Microsoft three sixty five, my Fitness, pell
Speaker 1: Peloton PlayStation Network, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Square, Zoom, and countless other
Speaker 1: platforms were down for the COUMP for a good part yesterday,
Speaker 1: frustrating a lot of people joining the show to talk
Speaker 1: about this and much more is Chris Naiheissi is the
Speaker 1: CEO at Cincinnati based Vigilant Cybersecurity. Chris, Welcome back, Good morning, Scott.
Speaker 3: It's great to be back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it seems like there's always a crisis. We
Speaker 1: could have you on probably every day talking about this stuff.
Speaker 1: I've imagined how the security breach, the security breach of
Speaker 1: that five was kind of overshadowed by AWS, and I
Speaker 1: guess that makes sense because you know, unless it directly
Speaker 1: affects you, you don't pay attention. Thing was that that
Speaker 1: AWS affects so many more people simply because when that's down.
Speaker 1: I just mentioned it, and that's just tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 1: That's some of the platforms. There's countless others around the
Speaker 1: world that were down because of this. In pretty much
Speaker 1: every institution from finance to a retail, you name. It
Speaker 1: was completely shut down for the Better Party yesterday, illustrating
Speaker 1: what the real problem is with Amazon, which is what.
Speaker 4: They're centrally located.
Speaker 5: You know, the big issue with a lot of these
Speaker 5: technologies like crowd Offerings AWS. They've made it so easy
Speaker 5: for organizations to put their technology up there. But the
Speaker 5: problem is in the thing that a lot of companies
Speaker 5: forgot about or chose to not maybe pay attention to,
Speaker 5: is that when you put it into these central locations,
Speaker 5: if that central location goes down, well then now everything
Speaker 5: you do goes down. And what was really interesting in
Speaker 5: scott is yesterday, and I do this quite often when
Speaker 5: things like this happen. I go out to this site
Speaker 5: called down detector dot com.
Speaker 4: And it tells you, like everything you know.
Speaker 5: These people will call in the report things are down,
Speaker 5: so it'll tell you what's down across the world. And
Speaker 5: you can tell exactly what companies use Amazon and we'll.
Speaker 4: Talk about that here in a second why that can help.
Speaker 5: An attacker, but you can see exactly what company used
Speaker 5: it because they all went down at the same time. Now,
Speaker 5: I'll tell you this has happened globally two times before
Speaker 5: last year CrowdStrike, and this has happened to AWS before
Speaker 5: as well. The data that Russia attacked Ukraine, so very
Speaker 5: interesting time and you and I talked about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in fact that we.
Speaker 1: Will and we still don't I don't. We don't know
Speaker 1: what drove yesterday's out.
Speaker 2: We don't know, we don't know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean Amazon has said that, uh that basically
Speaker 5: it was a DNS problem, which is the exact same
Speaker 5: thing that was years ago, and just everyone knows what
Speaker 5: DNS does is you know, it's really hard to remember
Speaker 5: a long IP address, you know, like one nine two
Speaker 5: dot one six, states at five, that ten or whatever,
Speaker 5: and so so we don't have to remember that Google's
Speaker 5: addresses is.
Speaker 2: You know eight at eight, that eight that eight.
Speaker 5: We put names to these because it's easier for humans
Speaker 5: remember names. So we say Google dot com, where there's
Speaker 5: a translation service at the Internet existed since since you know,
Speaker 5: networking started. But basically you type in Google, it converts
Speaker 5: it to that iPad dress and goes up. You can't
Speaker 5: get to websites without DNS. And if DNS is down,
Speaker 5: that's the problem. It is the single most thing that
Speaker 5: can I mean, none of the networking broke yesterday, None
Speaker 5: of the ISP's broke.
Speaker 2: You said Internet connection.
Speaker 4: It was the major translation system.
Speaker 3: So if you had typed in.
Speaker 5: The IP address, if you knew it, you could have
Speaker 5: gotten to the website. You're trying to go to. But
Speaker 5: because of automation, all these technologies like ring or whatever,
Speaker 5: DNS can change so often and so they just automate it.
Speaker 5: So when that system's down, it's it's the thing that
Speaker 5: can take everything down. It's the simplest thing to take
Speaker 5: down the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the way you describe is if you're older, remember
Speaker 1: the old Dewey decimal system. It's like the inverse of that. Basically,
Speaker 1: I said, if I remember those numbers like oh yeah,
Speaker 1: here's the name of the book, Well, the Dewey decimal
Speaker 1: system will get you the book and the title that
Speaker 1: you're looking for. Don't have to worry about that as
Speaker 1: much anymore. And the other thing too, is you know,
Speaker 1: the idea is is that the cloud. Basically the cloud
Speaker 1: is hey listen, you don't have to host your own
Speaker 1: service anymore. You don't have to have a room full
Speaker 1: of a rack room with all this equipment and have
Speaker 1: it people run around all the time. You just uplad
Speaker 1: the stuff of the cloud and Amazon will take care
Speaker 1: of it and you just you can outsource it. Right,
Speaker 1: So we love outsourcing. The problem though, is that and
Speaker 1: correct memver wrong. I think there's two regions here, so
Speaker 1: you have the US East one region, which is in Virginia,
Speaker 1: which is where the problem is.
Speaker 2: We have US East two, which is actually in Ohio.
Speaker 1: And so one of the ideas, Hey, one of the
Speaker 1: regions goes down, you've got other backups and overlaps. But
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, if it's the whole process of the
Speaker 1: Dewey decimal system called DNS, then you can't access data
Speaker 1: no matter where it is. That's the toy that that
Speaker 1: undermines their argument that, hey, don't worry if they go
Speaker 1: down here, we've got backups. There's redundancy. Well, there's no
Speaker 1: redundancy with.
Speaker 4: This, right right.
Speaker 5: That's interesting too. There's thinking about it this way from
Speaker 5: a security standpoint. It's just from national security aspect. When
Speaker 5: DNS is down, everybody's firewall that's configured to get updates
Speaker 5: through DNS stops getting updates.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 5: People writing code that use things like githup right where
Speaker 5: they still or their code they can't update code? Uh
Speaker 5: when you know yesterday, uh you know email communication systems
Speaker 5: to tell people things are down, we're down, and so
Speaker 5: you know, think about all the ways we communicate, all
Speaker 5: the services we communicate, emergency services. Your ring cameras were
Speaker 5: down right, So what's a great time for someone breaking
Speaker 5: your home yesterday during that outage, you know, so you
Speaker 5: know what's it. But also on top of that, not
Speaker 5: even just the security side of things is you know,
Speaker 5: people couldn't buy and sell things. They couldn't you know,
Speaker 5: so many businesses lost tons of money yesterday because they
Speaker 5: lost consumers purchasing.
Speaker 4: Things from them.
Speaker 5: It's just a cascading effect. And you know, when you
Speaker 5: think about US East and US one, the way this
Speaker 5: works is you actually have to put your technology in bolts. Well,
Speaker 5: it costs you more money to do that, and so
Speaker 5: not every company does that either, even though it's available.
Speaker 5: But even in that case, you know, DNS being down,
Speaker 5: you know, would have affected most of most of any
Speaker 5: any of.
Speaker 4: That as well.
Speaker 5: And you know, there are multiple different ways to connect
Speaker 5: to DNS because there's all these companies that use this,
Speaker 5: but a lot of companies use aws because it's easy
Speaker 5: and you know, it's it's just it's just grown to
Speaker 5: be something that's just pretty well known.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we know why to you know, the dependence
Speaker 1: in the cloud as opposed to having a local drive
Speaker 1: do this, there's a lesson there and the you know,
Speaker 1: everything works until it doesn't.
Speaker 2: I guess it's the mantra here too.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 2: And I'd been missed. I didn't mention, like literally.
Speaker 1: Hours before this day before this, there was something called
Speaker 1: the F five bridge. F five is a it's a
Speaker 1: it's a major US company basically that it How do
Speaker 1: I want to describe F five? It's not much like
Speaker 1: AWUS is pretty much everywhere. F five is a huge
Speaker 1: cybersecurity ventor. I think nine to ten fortune five hundred
Speaker 1: to use them at banking, tech, medical, government, all that stuff, right,
Speaker 1: And they were breached by the Chinese, so to kind
Speaker 1: of bridge the disc ushi and from Amazon to this.
Speaker 2: Do you think these two are related?
Speaker 5: Uh? You know, personally, I think the timing is really interesting.
Speaker 5: And when you see a lot of these big things
Speaker 5: happen colonial pipeline, uh.
Speaker 3: You know this, you know you have to start to
Speaker 3: look at this.
Speaker 5: From a from a warfare standpoint. And I would say
Speaker 5: most of the most of a lot of attacks, even
Speaker 5: though they're ransom are attacks. Its like that this last week,
Speaker 5: ransomware in hospitals, things like that. I think all of
Speaker 5: that's either positioning or testing and and and in this
Speaker 5: case it's it's highly possible that both of them are related.
Speaker 2: I think it's too early for Amazon.
Speaker 5: To know that. I think that for them to say
Speaker 5: that publicly, uh was you know, I don't, But again
Speaker 5: I don't know what investigations they've done internally. But that
Speaker 5: happened really fast, and so if I were them, I
Speaker 5: would have waited, you know, just to this to come
Speaker 5: out and say something. But even if it was, it
Speaker 5: probably won't come out to the public just because of hysteria.
Speaker 3: And things like that.
Speaker 5: Now, the way the way F five works, where where
Speaker 5: DNS gets you to the website you're going to, what
Speaker 5: happens is when you have a popular website or you're
Speaker 5: a company that does a lot of business, you have
Speaker 5: to have a ton of servers on the back end
Speaker 5: that serve your customers. And so what F five does
Speaker 5: is it sits in front of those so when you
Speaker 5: go to it, it distributes.
Speaker 4: The load across all of these servers you have on
Speaker 4: the back end to support all of the transactions you
Speaker 4: might take. So that's why banks use them, why hospitals
Speaker 4: use them, it's why big massive organizations use them, because
Speaker 4: it helps route the traffic. Son Once gets you.
Speaker 5: To F five, right, then it distributes the work.
Speaker 4: So you kind of see I'm going here right yea,
Speaker 4: But yeah.
Speaker 5: So that's that's that's what happened there. So when when
Speaker 5: you think about F five, what F five has is
Speaker 5: they have all of the configurations for every one of
Speaker 5: these companies that they work with. They have all like
Speaker 5: of the user access information, they have all of the
Speaker 5: code for how their systems work. So when an attacker,
Speaker 5: what they stole was they stole all of their source code,
Speaker 5: They stole all of their you know or not all,
Speaker 5: but a lot of their customer configurations. They stole the
Speaker 5: access to those systems. So now not only do they
Speaker 5: know where to go, they know how to get there,
Speaker 5: they know how to get in, and they know everything
Speaker 5: about the company's environment once they get there.
Speaker 1: Chris They, who's the they?
Speaker 4: So the they in this case for five is trying
Speaker 4: to right.
Speaker 5: China packed them in twenty twenty three, and that's the
Speaker 5: earliest we know, right from what's been released. Sometimes that's longer.
Speaker 5: Sometimes companies don't even know. Because I'll say that most
Speaker 5: companies either they don't have the ability to forensically even
Speaker 5: go back that far, and so it's really difficult for
Speaker 5: most companies to prove whether or not a hack happened
Speaker 5: and even when it happened, so they could have been
Speaker 5: there much longer. But the day in this case is
Speaker 5: China the and I would say this, it's our adversaries,
Speaker 5: you know, because it's China doesn't just operate completely alone.
Speaker 5: They work with other countries and things like that. You
Speaker 5: know that our adversaries against us.
Speaker 1: Right, And we just had the start of Earine just
Speaker 1: last week and talking about China and how they've infiltrated
Speaker 1: infrastructure here in America in two hundred as far as
Speaker 1: we know, but probably multiply that by ten or one hundred,
Speaker 1: where they've gotten into water filtration systems. Some small town
Speaker 1: in Massachusetts, I believe. Sixteen Minutes had a great story
Speaker 1: on this and how they got in. They like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we saw them, they were operating, The government was watching
Speaker 1: them to see what they were going to do. But
Speaker 1: they could totally take control of a city's infrastructure. And
Speaker 1: that's that's replicated across America.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: The Chinese are break and basically the biggest, one of
Speaker 1: the biggest cybersecurity vetterors in that five in their platform
Speaker 1: that runs nine to ten Fortune five hundred companies. They
Speaker 1: have basically the blueprints on how things work for nine
Speaker 1: of Virtue tive.
Speaker 4: Hundred companies and and and in.
Speaker 5: A significant amount of others too. Yeah, you know, we're
Speaker 5: my team right now is out in California because we
Speaker 5: meet uh this conference with a bunch of municipalities out
Speaker 5: there at Space all the Uni polities and California come
Speaker 5: together once a year we go go to that conference.
Speaker 5: One of the things that's interesting because our team is
Speaker 5: asking them, We're like, hey, you know, do you you know,
Speaker 5: do you use that five et cetera, et cetera now
Speaker 5: and a lot of them to do so, you know,
Speaker 5: the you know, that's the thing is when a technology
Speaker 5: becomes efficient or becomes you know, effective within an organization,
Speaker 5: people will go buy it and they put it in.
Speaker 5: And that's not a bad thing because you know, a
Speaker 5: company should be rewarded for effectiveness. However, the thing you
Speaker 5: have to realize is that you know, when you're when
Speaker 5: you're putting things in, you have to go a bit
Speaker 5: further to to lock them down.
Speaker 4: And when you know, we talked.
Speaker 5: About week two hundred, you know, cities around the country
Speaker 5: and that's just that's that's a very very low number
Speaker 5: that Scott just from our experience, have embedded threat actors
Speaker 5: in their environment. And then you tie that into things like,
Speaker 5: you know, systems like this where back in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 5: So I think it's no doubt that you know, companies
Speaker 5: that use.
Speaker 4: F five, you know, have probably been infiltrated from them
Speaker 4: from that time and they don't know, you know, because
Speaker 4: you know, and I were talking about this earlier.
Speaker 3: I think a look bit.
Speaker 4: But like I've been saying, you know, saying on a.
Speaker 5: Few of these, is that the cyber industry has been
Speaker 5: diluted over time from a technology standpoint because of the
Speaker 5: way that cyber companies grow, Right, A lot of private
Speaker 5: equity comes in, a lot of different investments come in,
Speaker 5: and a lot of times that can dilute the technology
Speaker 5: because there's a balance in an organization like that where
Speaker 5: you have to balance between shareholder value and client value.
Speaker 5: The other thing that's happened too is that you know,
Speaker 5: companies do not have a good barometer on how to
Speaker 5: choose cyber technology. So like for instance, HB ninety six,
Speaker 5: you're in the state of Ohio, mad Rush, every municipality
Speaker 5: here in the state of Ohio mad rush to get
Speaker 5: cyberant in.
Speaker 3: Put in place.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 5: I believe the bill was awesome. I think it's one
Speaker 5: of the best cyber bills in the country right now. However,
Speaker 5: the timeline is horrible because now what's happening is all
Speaker 5: these cities are rushing out to get compliance because they
Speaker 5: have to, and now they're going to put in things
Speaker 5: that they may or may not know are effective. And
Speaker 5: a lot of these organizations actually don't know how to
Speaker 5: vet whether or not tech is good or not in
Speaker 5: the cyber world, because we have things like you know,
Speaker 5: I don't say their names, but we have organizationations out
Speaker 5: there that a lot of companies go to say, well, how.
Speaker 3: Is this rated?
Speaker 5: Well, most of those plans, most of those rating systems
Speaker 5: are all paid to play, so cyber vendors can come in,
Speaker 5: pay a lot of money and get put into a
Speaker 5: position of priority in the marketplace.
Speaker 1: So the way the system is set up, it seems
Speaker 1: like this it's not going to take much of this
Speaker 1: house of cards to follow me in. I'm not surprised
Speaker 1: to wake up one day and nothing works, because you know,
Speaker 1: the Chinese said, okay, we have enough to shut your
Speaker 1: commerce down and hold you hostage. I mean imagine holding
Speaker 1: the United States of America essentially hostage. And what is
Speaker 1: the rest of the world power is going to do.
Speaker 1: They're going to sit back and just look at us
Speaker 1: and go yeah.
Speaker 2: So we don't care. It's a frightening future.
Speaker 1: And it's sadly we don't learn anything until we have
Speaker 1: a digital nine to eleven, and that's coming.
Speaker 2: We've talked about.
Speaker 1: That, right, Chris Nihi, CEO Vigilant Cybersecurity. Now, of the origins,
Speaker 1: we still know the Amazon webserver crash yesterday, and we
Speaker 1: do know that one of the biggest platform cybersecurity vendors
Speaker 1: at F five and what they produce, was hacked by
Speaker 1: the Chinese. And we'll see if those two things fit together.
Speaker 1: Frightening times. Indeed, Chris, all the best, Thanks are jumping
Speaker 1: in this morning.
Speaker 4: Oh Scott, great talking to take care.
Speaker 1: We've got a news update in about four or five
Speaker 1: minutes here. When we continue, we'll start to get into
Speaker 1: the Terry Fiji suspension slash dismissal, slash firing, slash dog
Speaker 1: and Pony show that's about to happen at what ten
Speaker 1: o'clock today when her attorney Terry Thigi's attorney speaks. We'll
Speaker 1: have that live for you and then reaction following here
Speaker 1: on seven hundred WLW consequential Tuesday morning. Scott Sloan here,
Speaker 1: seven hundred WLW. Gotch You're covered and control. If you're
Speaker 1: out and about today, take us with you via the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app because we will have breaking new sometime at
Speaker 1: ten o'clock or thereabouts. There's about to be a press
Speaker 1: conference on the heels of Police Chief Terry Fiji being
Speaker 1: placed on administrative leave. City Manager Cheryl Long tells us
Speaker 1: to leave is pending an internal investigation and the effectiveness
Speaker 1: of our leadership the Cincinnati Police Department, which is interesting
Speaker 1: because it was just what about three or four weeks
Speaker 1: ago that mayor after had Pirval said crime is down.
Speaker 1: It's fine, crime is down, We're doing good. Things are good. Now.
Speaker 1: There's some areas, central business districts and others where the
Speaker 1: crime is up and personal property crimes like car breaking, said,
Speaker 1: that's up, but crime is down. So weeks later we
Speaker 1: get the dismissal presumably of Chief Theritary Thesi, which this
Speaker 1: is gonna be a great topic Tomorrow morning at ten
Speaker 1: thirty with Julie Boukie, our career, Shirpoo, and just how
Speaker 1: poorly handled this dismissal was. And I say dismissal because
Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of this. We don't
Speaker 1: know what's going to happen. At ten o'clock, the attorney
Speaker 1: for Terry Thiji, Steve m who's been on the show before,
Speaker 1: a friend of the show, an employment attorney with Finny
Speaker 1: Law Firm, and Cincinnati's gonna address this at ten o'clock.
Speaker 1: And I could only imagine he's going to say that
Speaker 1: she did everything that was asked of the city as
Speaker 1: he publicly negotiates the terms of her surrender, and the
Speaker 1: terms of her surrender are going to be extremely generous,
Speaker 1: meaning that you, the city tax paper are going to
Speaker 1: foot the bill to make Terry Thiji go away. And
Speaker 1: it's going to cost a lot of money, money that
Speaker 1: could be better spent on, oh, I don't know, addressing
Speaker 1: crime problems or potholes or whatever it might be. But
Speaker 1: that is your guy have to have have at work,
Speaker 1: going to spend a lot more of your money to
Speaker 1: covers butt. So we'll see what is said in just
Speaker 1: about twenty two minutes or thereabouts. Anyway, as soon as
Speaker 1: they break in with that, we'll have it for you
Speaker 1: here on news radio seven hundred WLW. So let's lead
Speaker 1: up to that somewhat here in how things got to
Speaker 1: be and the final straw for Terry Thiji, I guess
Speaker 1: was the Fountain Square shootings, because Pierval I think was
Speaker 1: out of adjectives at this point. Every time we had
Speaker 1: a violent crime that made headlines, there was another adjective
Speaker 1: used and finally said that's enough. This is intolerable, I
Speaker 1: think is the lat one he used and said significant
Speaker 1: changes are coming.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: That was last week and here we are with the
Speaker 1: paid administry to leave, the suspension of the chief and
Speaker 1: an interim chief appointed. Terry Thiji told cops at that
Speaker 1: time that we're going to make contact with people for
Speaker 1: the most minor offenses and the SWAT and civil determined
Speaker 1: team are going to be it's going to look pretty militaristic.
Speaker 1: Militaristic on Thursday and Thursday on football, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: did that stop the crime? Maybe on Fountain Square, but
Speaker 1: just a few blocks away literally at the end between
Speaker 1: Tavern gunshots rang out where he had an individual shot
Speaker 1: to death in his car and his BMW at the
Speaker 1: hands of a guy who well shouldn't have had a
Speaker 1: gun in the first place. We'll get into the more
Speaker 1: a little bit later on. Terry Fiji came into the
Speaker 1: department in twenty twenty two with the retirement of then
Speaker 1: Chief Elliott Isaac. She was an executive assistant chief at
Speaker 1: the time, the first woman to lead the department. In
Speaker 1: the interim, she spent thirty now I believe doing matham
Speaker 1: my head here about thirty five years on the job.
Speaker 1: I want to say thereabouts in a Western High school's
Speaker 1: Western Hills High School graduate, married forty years, proud Westsider,
Speaker 1: and I found it interesting because when she took office
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, just three short years ago, she said, quote,
Speaker 1: I am dedicated to ensuring CPD is as inclusive as
Speaker 1: possible and will continue being committed to doing the work
Speaker 1: of the collaborative Agreement. To that point, Iris Rawley with
Speaker 1: the Cincinnati Black United Front actually interviewed all four candidates.
Speaker 1: I was sending the interview press of all four candidates
Speaker 1: with the goal of advancing the collaborative agreement, that is,
Speaker 1: the optics, that is, the circumstances, surroundings and conditions in
Speaker 1: which Terry Fiji moved from executive assistant chief to the
Speaker 1: full time job to the main job, being the main
Speaker 1: woman in this case under the guy that well, she's
Speaker 1: a female that checked the box. Which also make it
Speaker 1: interesting in the side, is what's the if they replaced
Speaker 1: Terry Fiji with a white dude. That doesn't look good
Speaker 1: when it comes to diversity, it right, because a lot
Speaker 1: of the times when you know, when Chief Elliott Isaac
Speaker 1: left or when a previous chiefs left, is like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, you can't replace a black guy with a
Speaker 1: white guy, or you can in this case reb well
Speaker 1: a woman with a guy. I just it's it doesn't
Speaker 1: look good. And so it's interesting how all of the
Speaker 1: you know, the diversity and the DEI and all that
Speaker 1: stuff goes out the window when bullets are flying around
Speaker 1: and you have a you know, and it's threatening your
Speaker 1: occupation as a professional politician like Aftaed Piervall into a
Speaker 1: degree shir along.
Speaker 2: Very interesting.
Speaker 1: So we'll see if the first woman hired a Cincinnati
Speaker 1: police chief, if they replace her with another woman because
Speaker 1: of well, you know, DEI and I may you know,
Speaker 1: it could be a black man, black woman woman man.
Speaker 1: I don't care just hire someone who's competent. Be course,
Speaker 1: the problem is the fact that they're hamsterring by the
Speaker 1: mayor's office, something that people voted for back in two
Speaker 1: thousand and one with Issue five that said you know
Speaker 1: longer know you know. Basically, the FOP has no say
Speaker 1: we're going to go outside of Cincinnati hire the best candidate. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, the guy's the best candidate. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of ifs in there, there's a lot of qualifiers, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of ISM's in there, you know, sexism, racism,
Speaker 1: et cetera. Instead of finding the best person, we have
Speaker 1: to find a person who looks diverse, so to check
Speaker 1: the diversity box first. I'm not saying certainly diversity I
Speaker 1: think is a good thing, but it has to be natural,
Speaker 1: has to be organic. And also what about hiring the
Speaker 1: best person for the job and then letting them do
Speaker 1: what they do. I think that's the problem here because
Speaker 1: it's pretty clear regardless that she's a woman, or she's
Speaker 1: a white woman or a black woman, that doesn't bean
Speaker 1: disabled it I don't care. Just find someone who's competent
Speaker 1: and let them do the job. We don't have that
Speaker 1: because they Issue five and can control the mayor's office.
Speaker 1: So when she comes to office and the first thing
Speaker 1: she says three years ago, is is it about you know?
Speaker 1: Is it about juvenile crime? It's about bad guys, it's
Speaker 1: about guns on the streets, it's about public sip. No,
Speaker 1: it's about being inclusive and working in the confides of
Speaker 1: collaborative agreement that led to where we are now three
Speaker 1: years later. Just pointing that out, How is that on
Speaker 1: Terry Thiji. I don't see it because she is just
Speaker 1: simply playing by the boy. If you want the job
Speaker 1: and the title of police chief and everything that goes
Speaker 1: along with that, the heartaches, the headaches, but also the
Speaker 1: compensation and the notoriety because you're going to go and
Speaker 1: make a lot more money as a consultant, probably there
Speaker 1: is a police chief. But nonetheless, if that's the rules
Speaker 1: of the game and engagement, you want that job, and
Speaker 1: who wouldn't want that job, then you're gonna do and say,
Speaker 1: enact and dance the song the piper's calling, and the
Speaker 1: piper is the mayor. I think we got to get
Speaker 1: I think we made a mistake in two thousand and
Speaker 1: one when voters said, hey, yeah, that's what we want.
Speaker 1: I think what you need to do. You need to
Speaker 1: have somebody in there who's going to be a good
Speaker 1: cop there not punitive, enforce the laws, take the bad
Speaker 1: guys off the street, put them away, work with the
Speaker 1: prosecutor's office, do all that stuff, be accountable, but also
Speaker 1: be a cop. And we've got, unfortunately, people who are
Speaker 1: theatrical I think in a way if you want to
Speaker 1: put it that way, because I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of theatrics with what's going on here too. But you know,
Speaker 1: just again, you're hired. Your job is to enforce the
Speaker 1: laws and make sure that the bad guys are segregated
Speaker 1: from the good guys. There's very very few, really really
Speaker 1: bad people out there. We need to make sure they
Speaker 1: don't socialize with the rest of us. That's all this is.
Speaker 1: But when you put all these other artificial whims in there,
Speaker 1: it doesn't help. So Terry Thiji, just last year she
Speaker 1: was remember when she showed up to the school board
Speaker 1: meeting to do a I think it was a prevent
Speaker 1: youth violence thing. She went at metro stations. Look, we
Speaker 1: had thirty arrests last year. I think during the month
Speaker 1: of August, I think right before school there was a
Speaker 1: bunch of arrests because kids are hanging around the Metro
Speaker 1: station again and Government Square causing problems. And of course
Speaker 1: that's because the juvenile justice system is broken. It's a
Speaker 1: way too lenient and police round them up and then
Speaker 1: the judges don't put the fear of God into them
Speaker 1: to make them do it again, and they send them
Speaker 1: off with a slap on the wrist and they go
Speaker 1: out and they do far worse stuff. And so cops
Speaker 1: on the street are undermined. I don't know how that
Speaker 1: is on the chief of police. This summer, we had
Speaker 1: multiple shootings. Fourth of July weekend was not a good one.
Speaker 1: We had three at the banks and s Melbourne Front Park.
Speaker 1: We had a fourteen year old killed. We had the
Speaker 1: street takeover in Clifton, which Teve Gooden talks about because
Speaker 1: cops and our fire couldn't go on runs and they're delayed,
Speaker 1: and we had two cops the target of gunfire in Clifton.
Speaker 1: And that's when the chief yelled at the media about
Speaker 1: they need to be more honest and transparent. That was
Speaker 1: the whole you know what crime is down? Well now
Speaker 1: the chiefs yell at the media about being more honest
Speaker 1: about things. And now where's is this homisty there? So
Speaker 1: I saw that when we heard they're yelling at the
Speaker 1: media about being more transparent, more honest about reporting. She's
Speaker 1: just covering for the mayor. So she was again dancing
Speaker 1: the dance. Mayor's playing the tune. Just tell people the
Speaker 1: crime is fine, there's not a crime problem. We're good.
Speaker 1: The numbers don't back that up. Well, when you sit
Speaker 1: there and luxury people and say you need to learn
Speaker 1: how to behave in your city, and you become a meme,
Speaker 1: you know, the police chief, Mama mem I think you
Speaker 1: kind of lose your your juice there, and that's what
Speaker 1: happened with Terry Thiji. Yeah, look overall, how much is
Speaker 1: this on her? I don't know very little about. I
Speaker 1: would say, now, talk to your average beat cop. I
Speaker 1: know that there are a lot of cops aren't happy
Speaker 1: with Terry Thigi. But again, this is someone who is
Speaker 1: hired by an administration to carry out the diversity, equity
Speaker 1: and inclusivity. And she said that when she was hired
Speaker 1: because that was hitting her head by after pival By,
Speaker 1: sheer long by Iris Rawley and all the others getting
Speaker 1: in her ear. Like, this isn't about policing, this is
Speaker 1: about diversity, and how could that possibly surprise you that
Speaker 1: we are where we are three years three short years
Speaker 1: later and the person who said, okay, these are the
Speaker 1: terms of the condition of my opponent.
Speaker 2: Great.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know about you. You show up to work,
Speaker 1: your boss tells you to do something. Here's the job
Speaker 1: here's going to hire you to do, and these are
Speaker 1: the the parameters of your job. Generally, most sane people go, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll do what they ask I will do my job.
Speaker 1: When the parameters established by the man, no one's going
Speaker 1: to go. Very few people are going to I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do my own I'm gonna go rogue here. That that's
Speaker 1: not going to be good for your longevity in that company.
Speaker 1: I'd imagine the same as true to the police chief.
Speaker 1: But just let's look at the construct in which she
Speaker 1: came into office and what she was guided by initially.
Speaker 1: And this was not long ago. We had the Cincinnati
Speaker 1: Crime Plan, remember this. They kind of downplayed this one
Speaker 1: when we had a you know, the idea is we've
Speaker 1: got too many kids getting guns. And the end result
Speaker 1: after this is we have now more kids getting guns.
Speaker 1: So how did this work? We downplayed the Cincinnatia because
Speaker 1: they want to do diversion instead of a youth gun
Speaker 1: possession cases instead of formal prosecution, especially for first time offenders.
Speaker 1: And we're going to limit the detention for youth charged
Speaker 1: with gun possession and eliminate the transfers. We're not going
Speaker 1: to kick them up to adult court anymore. And we
Speaker 1: need more community based violence interruption programs. How is that working?
Speaker 1: Where's all that money going? Safe to say, I think
Speaker 1: a lot of it is going to the pockets of
Speaker 1: people who don't really have a plan, but they got
Speaker 1: their hand out. And there's a lot of government every
Speaker 1: time we pass something, you know, the four and a
Speaker 1: half million dollars we give the cops. You start to
Speaker 1: look in the details of that and I haven't had
Speaker 1: time or the inclination to do it, but you start
Speaker 1: looking at that, it go wow, Look at up the programs.
Speaker 1: Look at my handouts in this community, this community memborgangs
Speaker 1: and somebody is getting this and we've got this program
Speaker 1: and there's no accountability for any of this stuff. It's
Speaker 1: just paying people off to go along with the plan.
Speaker 1: But the plan doesn't work now in retrospect of the
Speaker 1: summer offering diversion and limiting youth detention and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: The optics of this aren't very good. You know, when
Speaker 1: Terry Ethigi comes into office and she says in her
Speaker 1: press conference, and this is about continuing diversity, equity, inclusion,
Speaker 1: this is about the collaborative agreement. And she's looking at
Speaker 1: Iris Rawley, and she's looking at your along and she's
Speaker 1: looking at them and all these things, and then you know,
Speaker 1: you're a few three years later we have the literally
Speaker 1: the wheelswalling off the cart. What happened all those programs
Speaker 1: one of those grand ideas well, those those are the
Speaker 1: conditions in which we were taught by the people who
Speaker 1: are holding the carrot out that is the job. Then
Speaker 1: you're gonna do everything to get that carrot. I don't
Speaker 1: see how any of this is on Terry Thiji. What
Speaker 1: was the response from the city when we started having
Speaker 1: a lot more of this crime? This is way, but
Speaker 1: this is before Patrick Herringer got shot and everything the
Speaker 1: city spent. I think I had Kramereding on talking about
Speaker 1: this two hundred thousand dollars to keep the red bike
Speaker 1: program in Cincinnati going, and we spent like two million
Speaker 1: dollars over the years on the Red Bikes. So Cheryl
Speaker 1: Long comes out and says, well, we know that the
Speaker 1: bikes and the scooters are being used as tools to
Speaker 1: commit property crimes and steal guns and help criminals of
Speaker 1: aid comps. And so what we're gonna do now is
Speaker 1: we're going to shut down the Red Bikes. What then
Speaker 1: they doubled down? Went Okay, Hamila County Probation Department. Here's
Speaker 1: what we're gonna do. We're coming up with a new
Speaker 1: model here because we got to do something serious. We're
Speaker 1: going to take thirty probation field officers and cut that
Speaker 1: down to six. So we've got six probation officers doing home.
Speaker 1: It's for thirty eight hundred convicted felons. That's one forever
Speaker 1: six hundred and thirtyth offenders, one for six hundred. Because
Speaker 1: we're going to centralize our parole department instead of having substations.
Speaker 2: Does that make any sense?
Speaker 1: Then Patrick Harringer's murder comes along. Mordecai Black Murder, aggravated
Speaker 1: burglary kills. This guy stabs him in the neck inside
Speaker 1: his home on East mcmack and his wife, his poor
Speaker 1: wife's standing right there, a tragedy made worse by the
Speaker 1: fact shouldn't have never been out of jail, and the
Speaker 1: indifference of city leaders is the worst part about that.
Speaker 1: We had two cops on patrol that night in all
Speaker 1: of OTR and a guy's walking around with the machete
Speaker 1: and nobody saw him because we're one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: cops short. How is that on Terry Fiji. Terry Thiji
Speaker 1: would have fifteen hundred cops if we're up to her, like,
Speaker 1: I want more cops on the job, not fewer. And
Speaker 1: Mordecai Black's jacket, he had thirty four cases about four
Speaker 1: pages of crime on this pos over the last twenty years.
Speaker 1: And then to add insult to injury. And then something
Speaker 1: no one can explain to this date is why she
Speaker 1: was handcuffed and held for eight hours before released when
Speaker 1: her husband was murdered right in front of her. I
Speaker 1: get that initially it's always the person around closest to
Speaker 1: you who is usually responsible. But it was pretty clear.
Speaker 1: I think it did it take eight hours to figure
Speaker 1: that out? No now, and the reaction from after that
Speaker 1: pure of all, forty eight hours after his murder on
Speaker 1: X he posts, not about the murder, not about this
Speaker 1: is not acceptable, not talked about opening cutting the ribbon
Speaker 1: on Logan Commons, which is forty two new affordable homes
Speaker 1: for residents right next to Finley Market. Literally stepped away
Speaker 1: from her. Patrick Herringer was bludgeoned to death, killed murdered
Speaker 1: in his throat slit with a machete by Mordecai Block.
Speaker 2: Talk about tone death.
Speaker 1: We had a guy leaving an FC game, and that
Speaker 1: story was tamped down by the city because they're worried
Speaker 1: about scaring people away from going to f Sea games.
Speaker 1: This guy cares about getting re elected. He cares about
Speaker 1: sun dance, he cares about pride, He cares about blaming
Speaker 1: the white guy for the which I haven't even gotten
Speaker 1: to yet, and all that stuff. This guy has absolutely
Speaker 1: no sense about what it is what you need to
Speaker 1: do to make sure we have law and order. It's
Speaker 1: not as vocabulary because everything that he subscribes abscribes to
Speaker 1: I think has been turned upside down. All his theories
Speaker 1: and beliefs about how to run a police department has
Speaker 1: been blown up because criminals take advantage of that. Naither day,
Speaker 1: you know, a job as a kid if you're a
Speaker 1: little kid. Is to try and get away as much
Speaker 1: crap as you can. The job of a criminal is that,
Speaker 1: but on a much more serious level, because you have
Speaker 1: real victims in here. You don't have kids sneaking cookies, right,
Speaker 1: stealing change at a mom's purse or something like that,
Speaker 1: trying to jump out a window to escape curfew. You
Speaker 1: have people who are praying out of the people, Mordecai
Speaker 1: Black and others. And the answer is that, hey, you
Speaker 1: know what, we got to start splitting wigs here. We
Speaker 1: got to go after these people. We got to put
Speaker 1: them behind bars. We've got to quit, do you know,
Speaker 1: we quit releasing their own recognizance. We got to make
Speaker 1: sure that the cops are not out there. We don't
Speaker 1: want to talk to people. We don't want to stop
Speaker 1: people for jaywalking. We don't want to stop someone iris
Speaker 1: rawling in telling a cop what to do when they're
Speaker 1: hooking someone because they've they're wanted, No, you can't do that.
Speaker 1: You got to let them go. Well, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: they're wanted, they've been worn out for their arrest.
Speaker 2: No you can't. You're harassing them. You have rights too.
Speaker 1: We're listening to that element instead of common sense and
Speaker 1: says there are people out there that are going to
Speaker 1: take advantage of how naive you are. And I didn't
Speaker 1: even get to things like, you know, the food trucks
Speaker 1: being done at eleven o'clock and all those other nonsense.
Speaker 1: And then finally, because of all these failed policies grasping
Speaker 1: its draws and doing everything in your power to ignore
Speaker 1: the real problem, you then turn around and go, well,
Speaker 1: I guess we're gonna have to let the chief go.
Speaker 1: How in the hell is this on the chief? Steven
Speaker 1: m is an attorney with the Finny Law firm. He
Speaker 1: is a unemployment lawyer. He's a really good one. I've
Speaker 1: had him on a few times on my show. He
Speaker 1: is also representing, by the way, talking about checked up
Speaker 1: the city, is the former chief of fire fire chief
Speaker 1: in the city, mister Washington. He's repping him in his
Speaker 1: dismissal as well. So now he's gonna rep Thigi And
Speaker 1: i'd imagine so I got some stuff to say. So
Speaker 1: when he breaks out, we will break in at sometime
Speaker 1: at ten o'clock or thereafter, we'll have that press confidence
Speaker 1: for you live. I don't think Cigi will be there.
Speaker 1: If she is, she won't talk, but I'm guessing it's
Speaker 1: just gonna be Steve im in a podium and I'm
Speaker 1: interested to hear what he has to say about this
Speaker 1: whole situation I just laid out for you. I don't
Speaker 1: see how much of this, if any, is on Chief Thigi.
Speaker 1: I see a lot of it on a fouled administration
Speaker 1: that's doing everything to grasp and fight to stay in power. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: how much is it gonna cost you, mister and missus
Speaker 1: stax Bear to pay Terry Thigi off because of this incompetence, Well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna find out. Coming up Scott's Loan News Radio
Speaker 1: seven hundred wl All right, catching up here Scott's Loan
Speaker 1: seven hundred WLW Live. You heard the voice of Stephen
Speaker 1: m attorney from the Finny Law firm for Terry Thigi.
Speaker 1: She's on paid administrative leave as chief from the City
Speaker 1: of Cincinnati, standing behind in the civilian clothes, not speaking. Obviously,
Speaker 1: let the lawyer do the talking, for she's always smart.
Speaker 1: We've heard that Terry Thiji, a cops cop here, a
Speaker 1: long family cops and law enforcement in Cincinnati from the
Speaker 1: West Side, was asked to resign. She refused because there's
Speaker 1: no cause. And on her thirty fifth anniversary of her
Speaker 1: start on the job as a police office, she finds
Speaker 1: out that she's being put on paid administrator to leave,
Speaker 1: meaning we're looking for reasons. Now we don't have reason
Speaker 1: to fire you. We're looking for reasons, and we're going
Speaker 1: to put you on unpaid administrative leave. So what we
Speaker 1: got right now is a good old standoff. If she stays,
Speaker 1: she gets the authority to do her job. If she goes,
Speaker 1: it's going to cost you and missus taxpayer millions and
Speaker 1: millions of dollars that you can will afford, and it
Speaker 1: doesn't really solve the issue on this with some instant reaction.
Speaker 1: Is the president of the Queen City Lodge of the FOP,
Speaker 1: that's Ken Kober, can't appreciate you jumping in this.
Speaker 3: Morning, sure thanks to miss step.
Speaker 1: Looks like the no confidence vote you had for this
Speaker 1: administration really really stands up at this point, doesn't it.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean they've fumbled this from the get go.
Speaker 7: You have the chief fly across the country, only the
Speaker 7: land in Denver, you to go to a conference representing
Speaker 7: the city in the police department, only to tell her
Speaker 7: to come home, and then I mean, what we've seen
Speaker 7: over the last five days is just absolutely they fumbled
Speaker 7: this whole thing.
Speaker 3: It's terrible.
Speaker 1: Well, in addition to that, the person they appointed chief, Henny,
Speaker 1: is the interim chief now and according to Sheer Loong
Speaker 1: City Manager, she said he has my full support. I'm
Speaker 1: confident in his leadership. I don't know if he's doing
Speaker 1: the next chief, but this is the command officer who
Speaker 1: signed a citation against the white guy in the in
Speaker 1: the brawl in July at the urging of the mayor,
Speaker 1: which is purely political, not criminal. Even though Henny wasn't
Speaker 1: on the scene. He ran the Central business district and
Speaker 1: that had the highest spike in crime this year. The
Speaker 1: optics of that are bad for the it gets. It
Speaker 1: goes from bad to worse for these guys.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'll tell you the optics are certainly not good.
Speaker 7: But I will say this about Colonel Henny. As you
Speaker 7: know that hold the he was doing nothing but protecting
Speaker 7: investigators from having to do what they just said I'm
Speaker 7: not going to do and instead of them facing the
Speaker 7: consequences for standing up to it, you know, he stepped
Speaker 7: in and he protected cops, which is something that we
Speaker 7: certainly all appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that from a cops perspective, like
Speaker 1: he got our backs. I'm not going to let the
Speaker 1: rank and file take take the fall on this. But again,
Speaker 1: I don't know what the ethic. I think that's pretty
Speaker 1: unethical though, is that you're told by the mayor to
Speaker 1: do something. It's like, that's not how our justice system works.
Speaker 1: As much as these people spend complaining about Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: you just did the exact same thing that you're allegedly against.
Speaker 1: But I digress a little bit. The other thing, too,
Speaker 1: is if she were effective as chief, why would we
Speaker 1: have so much violent crime? I think that's the big
Speaker 1: question here, is like, well, violent crime has continue to
Speaker 1: go up. The optics are bad on this. We have
Speaker 1: Fountain Square, we had the shooting in front of the
Speaker 1: in between. It just keeps coming and coming and coming
Speaker 1: despite what we do. And yet it wasn't all long ago.
Speaker 1: He said, Hey, you know, things are effective. She's doing
Speaker 1: a good job. I mean, if you're effective at something,
Speaker 1: we should have less violent crime, not more.
Speaker 7: Well, this just proves what we know all along, and it
Speaker 7: proves what I've been saying all along, which is we
Speaker 7: need to keep politics out of policing. And when you
Speaker 7: have the city manager, the mayor who over over at
Speaker 7: City Hall, is telling her what she can and can't do,
Speaker 7: it's proving that that's failing. Chief Deji has the ability
Speaker 7: to be an effective police chief. Unfortunately she's not given
Speaker 7: that ability right now, and when she's told what to
Speaker 7: do by city Hall, she's told what she can can't do.
Speaker 7: The end result is that this is what we have.
Speaker 7: And this is ultimately why you know, the rank and
Speaker 7: file voted for voting no confidence against the mayor because
Speaker 7: they should allow the chief independently to do what she
Speaker 7: wants to do. And if she was screwing it up them,
Speaker 7: then by all means.
Speaker 3: Do something about it.
Speaker 7: But the fact that they didn't fire their asking her
Speaker 7: to resign says everything you need to know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this isn't her exit. This is about keeping yours,
Speaker 1: what Steve im said. So she has no desire to
Speaker 1: go quietly. Actually she's going to go rather violently, and
Speaker 1: it's going to cost a lot of money to make
Speaker 1: her go away. I'm just wondering would the city give
Speaker 1: up authority because this is issue five. So let's talk about
Speaker 1: that at the background, and that It came after Timothy
Speaker 1: Thomas was shot and killed in two thousand and one
Speaker 1: caused the riots.
Speaker 2: We had a charter amendment.
Speaker 1: The issue that passed I believe in November that year
Speaker 1: with just over fifty percent of the vote, I think
Speaker 1: fifty fifty one to fifty two percent. But essentially the
Speaker 1: Issue five you've mentioned that a lot ken is that
Speaker 1: the city manager in this case shere along as the
Speaker 1: power to hire and fire a police chief, fire chief,
Speaker 1: department heads at whim at will, and there's no balance
Speaker 1: in that whatsoever. In the past, it used to be
Speaker 1: the FOP you guys had a little bit of a
Speaker 1: say in that. You don't have that anymore. Is that
Speaker 1: what led to this?
Speaker 3: Well, sure, you know.
Speaker 7: And ultimately with that passing allowing one person to have
Speaker 7: sole authority as to whether you fire a police chief
Speaker 7: or a fire chief. It's been proven with the fire chief.
Speaker 7: It's now been proven with what's going on with Chief
Speaker 7: Figi that this is a terrible idea. There has to
Speaker 7: be changes to Issue five, otherwise we're going to continue
Speaker 7: to see the same thing. It doesn't matter who you
Speaker 7: make the police chief, as long as city Hall still
Speaker 7: is making the decisions. As to what's going to go
Speaker 7: along with the police department.
Speaker 3: This is what we're going to have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's Ken Cobert, President the FOP. The reaction to
Speaker 1: Attorney Steve Imms press conference he heard live on seven
Speaker 1: hundred Wow and on the stream via the iHeart radio
Speaker 1: app too, and that is saying we're fighting this. We're
Speaker 1: not gonna let Terry Thiji take essentially be a sacrificial
Speaker 1: lamb is what he called her, and said, this whole
Speaker 1: thing is disappointing, and there's no justification or cause, which
Speaker 1: is a legal term, no cause because she took no
Speaker 1: action or inaction on her part to cause her termination
Speaker 1: or it looks like at least her suspension no wrongdoing.
Speaker 1: And they're going to fight this thing tooth and nail
Speaker 1: and we'll see what happens. But relative to Issue five
Speaker 1: in this case, I had some notes here from back
Speaker 1: in the day in two thousand and one, the manager
Speaker 1: for Issue five that we're talking about here said, this
Speaker 1: is how other cities do it, and of course, you know,
Speaker 1: if other cities do it well, then it's got to
Speaker 1: be successful for Cincinnati. At the time, your predecessor, Keith Fegman,
Speaker 1: remember Keith Keith was the fop P president and said,
Speaker 1: what's going to happen is it's going to politicize departments.
Speaker 1: What's going to happen is you're going to have politicians
Speaker 1: making decisions of law enforcement, and anytime that something happens,
Speaker 1: it's bad. The chief is going to be a sacrificial
Speaker 1: lan We'll have a revolving door. And in that case
Speaker 1: he illustrated the Cleveland when they implemented this, they went
Speaker 1: through nine police chiefs I believe in less than eight
Speaker 1: years because of the system. And now Terry Thiji's gone
Speaker 1: after what three not quite three, we had a chief
Speaker 1: before them. It's just going to be a revolving door
Speaker 1: because the political will power exists and there's cover, politically speaking,
Speaker 1: to terminate the chief when in fact it's not the chief.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like our foot our sports teams can
Speaker 1: it's it's never the coach, the assistant coach, the line cut,
Speaker 1: it's always the ownership in the front office.
Speaker 2: That's what he's saying without a doubt.
Speaker 7: I mean, Keith, he was spot on when he said it.
Speaker 7: That was twenty four years ago. We saw with James Craig,
Speaker 7: he was the first chief to hire outside this police department.
Speaker 3: To rank and file loved him.
Speaker 7: He refused to cave to pressure from city hall, and
Speaker 7: after two years they went thanks, but no thanks for gone.
Speaker 7: You know, we got another chief that came in at
Speaker 7: eighteen months they fired him. So this is no surprise
Speaker 7: that this has all coming to fruition and it needs
Speaker 7: a change.
Speaker 1: Can this change before you overturn issue fiation five? I'd
Speaker 1: have to go back on the ballot. You'd have to
Speaker 1: figure out how to work around that because there was
Speaker 1: a charter amendment that passed in two thousand and one.
Speaker 1: A lot of work to overdo that, and the will
Speaker 1: of the voters, of course, But can chiefde Is there
Speaker 1: room for her to come back and do her job?
Speaker 7: I don't know why she'd want to at this point,
Speaker 7: the way that she's been treated. I mean, you treat
Speaker 7: somebody as thirty five years you've given to the city
Speaker 7: and this is how you're being treated. And I can
Speaker 7: tell you right now the cops are going. If they're
Speaker 7: going to do this to the chief, what will they
Speaker 7: do to me. I don't know why you would want
Speaker 7: to come back. I just don't see a scenario where
Speaker 7: that happens, because then she's going to be constantly looking
Speaker 7: at her shoulder.
Speaker 3: What are they going to do to me next? I
Speaker 3: feel for them.
Speaker 7: Like I said, this fight with the FOP in the
Speaker 7: city is just as much about Chief Fiji as it
Speaker 7: is for the next chief, For the chief after that,
Speaker 7: that chief fifty years from now, there has got to
Speaker 7: be made. And if I have to put all the
Speaker 7: effort in the world to the FOP to make sure
Speaker 7: that Issue five is changed, and that's exactly what we're
Speaker 7: going to do.
Speaker 2: Ken Kober.
Speaker 1: The name that was mentioned that cause Steve m to
Speaker 1: just simply pause, consider it and then say, I can't
Speaker 1: comment on that was the name Iris Rawley. How much
Speaker 1: how many fingerprints are on this her fingerprints are on
Speaker 1: what's happening right now.
Speaker 7: You know, it's hard saying it wouldn't surprise me. But
Speaker 7: the problem is there was no transparency at city hall.
Speaker 7: That is the absolute problem. You had the mayor say
Speaker 7: after the press conference that we're exploring all options, we're
Speaker 7: not sure if the chief's going to stay or not,
Speaker 7: and then all of a sudden, you know, nothing happens,
Speaker 7: and then the mayor comes out and says, oh, this
Speaker 7: is show a long decision.
Speaker 3: It's not my decision, it's hers.
Speaker 7: And of course then she makes the decision. Oh, I
Speaker 7: completely support her decision. It's just the lack of transparency
Speaker 7: is staggering coming from city Hall.
Speaker 1: Well, the fact of the matter, she goes to Denver,
Speaker 1: she gets recalled, there's an urgent message, there's an urgent
Speaker 1: issue in Cincinnati. We already had the Fountain Square shootings
Speaker 1: at this point, she's off to Denver. She comes back
Speaker 1: and now they go, well, we're going to suspend, you'll
Speaker 1: put you on paid leave. Why, Well, we can't say.
Speaker 1: We don't know, but here's the interim chief. And this
Speaker 1: whole thing has been handled so poorly in drag eff
Speaker 1: for said, but it's decision after decision like this, you know,
Speaker 1: like one way after food carts and red bikes, in
Speaker 1: breaking up the probation departments, all these things that actually
Speaker 1: made crime worse or had no impact on whatsoever. And
Speaker 1: now ultimately the last thing they have, the last quiver
Speaker 1: in their arsenal, is firing the chief. And I'll point
Speaker 1: out ken I read this earlier in the show, and
Speaker 1: I think it's worth pointing out again that when she
Speaker 1: was hired in twenty twenty two to replace Elliott Isaac.
Speaker 1: She was an executive assistant chief, first woman to lead
Speaker 1: the department, and she said in her first interview or
Speaker 1: her swearing in, her priorities upon taking office were dedicated
Speaker 1: to cheering CPD is as inclusive as possible, and I'm
Speaker 1: committed wholeheartedly to continuing the work of the collaborative Agreement.
Speaker 1: That sounds like someone who's saying that because she know
Speaker 1: how she got the job, Like those are the marching
Speaker 1: orders she was given by the administration as opposed to well,
Speaker 1: dealing with street level crime.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Absolutely, And you know, it's funny how this is all transpiring. Now,
Speaker 7: It's like making an arrest and then deciding what the
Speaker 7: crime is. I mean, that's literally, that's.
Speaker 3: How ridiculous this is. We're going to put you on
Speaker 3: leave until we can figure.
Speaker 7: Out why it is that we're actually going to fire you,
Speaker 7: and then we're going to do it. It's it's absolutely nonsense.
Speaker 7: And the rank and file recognizes that. You're regardless of
Speaker 7: how they feel about her as the chief, how they
Speaker 7: feel about her as a police officer, none of that matters.
Speaker 7: The rank and files well, and this is at right
Speaker 7: to treat somebody this way, and that's why I said
Speaker 7: that the police department of the rank and file has
Speaker 7: certainly been united over this.
Speaker 1: Well, it's a terrible thing, and that normally, if you're
Speaker 1: looking to get rid of somebody, and I've worked for
Speaker 1: places and work for places where they're always looking to
Speaker 1: you know, cut, cut some baggage, lose, they build a file.
Speaker 1: They go, okay, well this person is doing this. Okay,
Speaker 1: we've got a file. We've got to and you build
Speaker 1: a history so that if you have to terminate someone,
Speaker 1: you can point to that and go, it's not discrimination,
Speaker 1: it's for cause. Here's the causes. They don't have that here.
Speaker 1: They suspended her paid administrative leave, and now they're looking
Speaker 1: for reasons to go back and say, here's why we
Speaker 1: put you on leave. And this could go on for
Speaker 1: weeks and weeks and weeks to try and funds find
Speaker 1: some dirt on Terry Thiji that may or may not
Speaker 1: probably doesn't exist because you would have.
Speaker 2: Had this stuff already, right exactly.
Speaker 1: And I guess that does have a chilling effect in
Speaker 1: police officers. But you know, we also mentioned that the
Speaker 1: city just went in their pocket for money, even more
Speaker 1: money another four and a half million dollars to pay
Speaker 1: police officer try and recruit police office because as you know,
Speaker 1: and you often said, were what one hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: to one hundred and fifty cops down? Which is also
Speaker 1: part of the problem too, because we've spent money out
Speaker 1: of the other stupid things not getting keeping boots on
Speaker 1: the ground. But what does that due to recruitment efforts?
Speaker 1: And Simmon sees this from I don't know, we're talking
Speaker 1: about lateral recruitments, meaning you're stealing cops from other jurisdictions,
Speaker 1: go come to shiny sunny Cincinnati and work here.
Speaker 2: It's great.
Speaker 1: How does that undermine the cause that you're trying to do,
Speaker 1: and that is getting more cops signed up, not less.
Speaker 1: This to me sounds like it make cops want to leave,
Speaker 1: not to stay.
Speaker 3: Without a doubt, I mean it is.
Speaker 7: It is certainly going to have a devastating effect on
Speaker 7: retention because we're going to see even more people as
Speaker 7: soon as they get twenty five years on that leave
Speaker 7: and then anybody that actually pays to pays attention to
Speaker 7: the media, Uh, they're not gonna want to come here.
Speaker 7: So it's gonna it's gonna also affect recruiting, and it's
Speaker 7: just every time we finally get out of the news
Speaker 7: over the you know, the attack at Fourth and Elm
Speaker 7: and how that was handled, and we finally get passed out,
Speaker 7: and then now we have this, and it's just unfortunately
Speaker 7: City Hall seems to not be able to get out
Speaker 7: of their way when it comes to UH dealing with
Speaker 7: these issues, and it's certainly going to have a terrible
Speaker 7: impact on recruitment and retention.
Speaker 2: How long you think this drags out? What's your guts set?
Speaker 3: Who knows? I mean weeks? Who knows? I mean it's
Speaker 3: already drug out, five or six days? I just who knows.
Speaker 3: I hope it quickly.
Speaker 7: It's what the men and women of this police department deserve,
Speaker 7: it's what the residents deserve. So just to be handled
Speaker 7: very quickly and let's move on whatever that looks like,
Speaker 7: whether it's.
Speaker 3: Her coming back, her not coming back. They need to
Speaker 3: resolve this very very quickly.
Speaker 1: I know the rank and file weren't enamored with Terry Thiji,
Speaker 1: but man, what the city just did is solidify every
Speaker 1: man and woman on that thin blue or white line
Speaker 1: as it is in Cincinnati, on her side. This is
Speaker 1: incredible yeah, without a doubt. He is Ken Coobert. He
Speaker 1: is the president of the Cincinnati Lodge of the FOP.
Speaker 1: Joining the show with his reaction following the press conference
Speaker 1: involving Terry Figi's administrative paid administrative leaves. They look for
Speaker 1: reasons to fire her, supposed to having reasons. Now we're
Speaker 1: gonna put you on leave, pay you, and then look
Speaker 1: for reasons to fire you. That's completely as backwards as
Speaker 1: it gets her any big city or any city in
Speaker 1: America for that matter. But that's our town, that is Cincinnati, USA.
Speaker 1: Can all the best be safe? Thanks again, all right,
Speaker 1: thanks very much, Dott News on the way, we'll shift
Speaker 1: it up a little bit here. Tim Holloway is the
Speaker 1: resident of the Hamlin County Associations of Chiefs of Police.
Speaker 1: His reaction to this and also some of the areas
Speaker 1: that were pointed out in the press conference. We get
Speaker 1: a chance to get to and that would be judge's
Speaker 1: role in this whole thing, and the accusation by Steve
Speaker 1: m that f Ted Pureval won't engage county judges to
Speaker 1: force them to get tougher when it comes to bond
Speaker 1: and releasing people who are violent criminals on their own recognizance.
Speaker 1: Chief Holloway his reaction next seven hundred WWT, Cincinnati, Scott'slan
Speaker 1: Here's News Radio, seven hundred WLW, and Aburago a press
Speaker 1: conference to end all press conferences from the lips of
Speaker 1: Steve m a wonderful employment law attorney with the Finny
Speaker 1: Law Firm. And by the way, Steve is also repping
Speaker 1: former fire Chief Michael Washington for his discounts. His termination
Speaker 1: is the end of his tenureif Chief Fiji Terry Fiji
Speaker 1: on paid administrative leave, present at the press conference and
Speaker 1: civilian clothes, but not speaking, along with her family, who
Speaker 1: collectively have a combined two hundred nine plus years of
Speaker 1: service to Cincinnati. They're all in law enforcement or at
Speaker 1: leased in the public service for that matter. Chief Fiji,
Speaker 1: on the thirty fifth anniversary of her becoming a cop,
Speaker 1: found out that she was the subject of a secret
Speaker 1: investigation basically with no timeline or reason. And she was
Speaker 1: told that we're going to put you on paid administrative
Speaker 1: leave and we're going to point someone else in your stead,
Speaker 1: and you kind of see the writing on the wall.
Speaker 1: I don't think what they saw coming was that she
Speaker 1: was going to fight this and her attorney saying there's
Speaker 1: no justification. There was no cause, in which, if you
Speaker 1: know about employment law a little bit, you know the
Speaker 1: cause basically means it's something you did. There's no cause,
Speaker 1: so there's no action or inaction on her part. She
Speaker 1: has a spotless record. In called her a sacrificial lamb,
Speaker 1: and she has absolutely no wrongdoing. This was one hundred
Speaker 1: percent at the behest of the mayor was the suggest
Speaker 1: and the inference there that she is just a political
Speaker 1: scapegoat in a pawn. For the bigger part, crime problems
Speaker 1: that exists not because of Terry Thiji and her incompetence,
Speaker 1: but rather because of the foul policies that may are
Speaker 1: aft to have pure vall chry lung at All won't
Speaker 1: own up to and that that is the real issue.
Speaker 1: So how do you fire? You can't fire your way
Speaker 1: out of bad policy, but they're trying to do that.
Speaker 1: And so the end result is Terry Thigi is standing strong.
Speaker 1: She's felt that during your tenure she's been hamstrung by politics.
Speaker 1: You can't do your job. The city, though, issued a
Speaker 1: statement from share Long City manager saying public safety is
Speaker 1: our top priority.
Speaker 2: That is the issue.
Speaker 1: Is it really, you know, I would say that, you know,
Speaker 1: if we keep going through chiefs and subordinates, we keep
Speaker 1: getting more of the same. It sounds like a metaphor
Speaker 1: for our sports teams here in Cincinnati. Is maybe just
Speaker 1: maybe it ain't the guys on the field, It ain't
Speaker 1: the assistant coaches, it ain't that. Maybe it's the front office.
Speaker 1: Maybe just maybe that's what it is. Nonetheless, joining the
Speaker 1: show this morning with his reaction is the president of
Speaker 1: the Hamilton County Association of Chiefs the Police, and that
Speaker 1: would be Tim Holloway. Tim, good morning, how are.
Speaker 3: You no morning, Scott, good to be with you.
Speaker 1: These are the things that make one say thank. I
Speaker 1: may be a police chief, we may have our own
Speaker 1: issues wherever. We are multi the numbers of agencies across
Speaker 1: the Hamilton County, but at least we're not the city
Speaker 1: of Cincinnati. I say that tongue in cheek because I
Speaker 1: can't help but think that what's happening in Cincinnati with
Speaker 1: the crime does that affect all of the other jurisdictions
Speaker 1: that are in Cincinnati. Because you represent a number of
Speaker 1: agencies in Hamlin County, the Chiefs of Police Association, Tim
Speaker 1: does the crime problem with Fountain Square and elsewhere in
Speaker 1: the central business have a ripple effect. Does that make
Speaker 1: your job harder?
Speaker 6: Well, you know, Scott, I think it's one of those
Speaker 6: issues where it's a cultural issue inside the Hamilt County
Speaker 6: criminal justice system, and there's a sense from the criminals
Speaker 6: and also law enforcement and a lot of the citizens
Speaker 6: that there's not a lot of accountability coming out of
Speaker 6: the Hamilt Kuinting criminal justice system. And that applies to
Speaker 6: crimes that happened in Cincinnati or even there or anywhere
Speaker 6: else in the county.
Speaker 1: Were you shocked when you learn that tiy Thiji was
Speaker 1: on paid administrative leave or do you see this come?
Speaker 8: You know?
Speaker 6: I feel really sorry for Terry. She is a respected
Speaker 6: member of the Hamilcanty Association of Chiefs the Police, and
Speaker 6: what she's having to go through down there, it's really unfortunate.
Speaker 6: I will leave the mechanics of all that to Terry
Speaker 6: and her attorney and the City of Cincinnati to work through.
Speaker 6: She is a tremendous amount of knowledge, tremendous amount of experience,
Speaker 6: and as you mentioned, her family's combined experience. I know
Speaker 6: several of her family members. You're talking about a family
Speaker 6: and Chiefdiji in particular, that have demonstrated a long term
Speaker 6: commitment to service and public safety.
Speaker 1: I forget, Tim Refreshman, how many different agencies make up
Speaker 1: the Association Chief the Polace for.
Speaker 2: Hamilcun there's thirty five ass thirty.
Speaker 1: Five And I like I asked Ken Kobra about the
Speaker 1: rank and file, the men and women of the thin
Speaker 1: blue line of the same white line of the Cincinnati
Speaker 1: Police Department. When when you talk to members, you're thirty
Speaker 1: five members, typically is Chief needs you looked at favorably?
Speaker 6: I would think so, And to put that in perspective,
Speaker 6: I'll leave that largely for Kencobra to comment on. People
Speaker 6: may find this shocking, but the rank and file police
Speaker 6: officers don't spend a lot of time thinking about chiefdj
Speaker 6: just like the rank and file deputies of the Chrif's
Speaker 6: Apartment don't spend a lot of time thinking about Chief Holloway.
Speaker 6: You know, we all have our communities that we serve.
Speaker 6: I'll lead Ken Cobra and the rest of the folks
Speaker 6: at Cincinnati offer their opinion.
Speaker 3: On that one.
Speaker 2: Tim.
Speaker 1: One of the issues that came up, of course, is
Speaker 1: Issue five, and that was a charter rewrite that people
Speaker 1: wanted back in two thousand and one following the riots,
Speaker 1: and we're both around for that, and that is giving
Speaker 1: the city manager in essence, all authority over the chiefs
Speaker 1: of police, fire and leadership. And we saw why that
Speaker 1: was a bad thing. At the time, a lot of
Speaker 1: people thought it was good. There's one entity in Keith Fahman.
Speaker 1: Then the FOP president said this is a bad idea
Speaker 1: because it's going to be a hundred and political and
Speaker 1: any time that there's anytime something like this happens, it's
Speaker 1: going to be a sacrificial lamb. And we saw that
Speaker 1: come to fruition today or at least in the last
Speaker 1: week or so. That's not an issue that exists anywhere
Speaker 1: outside of the city. And so I think in other areas, like,
Speaker 1: for example, where you are, you have some authority and
Speaker 1: autonomy to do your job and go after bad guys
Speaker 1: as you see fit.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Scott, every single police chief in the county is
Speaker 6: in largely the same situation, and that is, we have
Speaker 6: an obligation to provide police services to our community consistent
Speaker 6: with that community's expectations, and obviously the elected officials should weigh.
Speaker 4: In with the police use.
Speaker 6: On their opinion of what that means. But at the
Speaker 6: end of the day, you hire a police chief for
Speaker 6: their knowledge and experience about law enforcement strategies. The elected
Speaker 6: officials here in Evendale would be a fool to come
Speaker 6: to me about tax increment financing or tax abatements because
Speaker 6: that that's not my specially. They should go to somebody
Speaker 6: else for that. And politicians, while they have an opinion
Speaker 6: on goals for law enforcement, they ought to be dictating strategy.
Speaker 6: It's not because it's not important to them. It's because
Speaker 6: they don't have the right frame of knowledge and experience
Speaker 6: that a police she has.
Speaker 1: All right, One of the things brought up Tim Holloway
Speaker 1: with this press conference that we carried is that the
Speaker 1: I think I know Steve im said this directly or not,
Speaker 1: but basically the mayor won't engage county judges about low
Speaker 1: bonds in releasing people on their own recogniss o ours
Speaker 1: And that's part of the problem here. It's one thing
Speaker 1: to talk about, you know, Terry Thiji in her competence
Speaker 1: or incompetence and why she was put on paid administry
Speaker 1: of leaving the politics behind that. It's almost always politics,
Speaker 1: and it's an unfortunate situation for Terry and her family,
Speaker 1: and it's also grossly unfair, and it's making people who
Speaker 1: once were on the fence are like not a big
Speaker 1: fan of Terry Thiji come to her defense. And so
Speaker 1: it's worked out, I think in that area very well
Speaker 1: for her. But when you hear that, the mayor won't
Speaker 1: engage with even talk to judges and say, look, we
Speaker 1: got a problem. You guys keep releasing people on low bond.
Speaker 1: They get out and they do worse things. The mayor
Speaker 1: won't even have that conversation.
Speaker 6: Right, that's my understanding. You know, I'm not part of
Speaker 6: any of those conversations. I have no direct contact with
Speaker 6: the mayor of the City Cincinnati. All I can tell
Speaker 6: you is collectively, the police chiefs in the Hamilton County
Speaker 6: recognize this problem for quite a few years. And Chief
Speaker 6: CGI brought us that challenge a few months ago to
Speaker 6: address some of these systemic issues in the criminal justice system.
Speaker 6: And we are working hard on that and will continue
Speaker 6: to work hard on that.
Speaker 1: And d I think is there's multi legs of this stool, right,
Speaker 1: and one of them is enforcement. It's getting tough on
Speaker 1: those who are violing the law. The last edicted Fountain
Speaker 1: Square was like, look, we're gonna have swat, We're gonna
Speaker 1: have operations out there. We're going to stop people and
Speaker 1: talk to them, make contact with people when they violate
Speaker 1: the law, and the slightest it's the broken windows theory policing,
Speaker 1: which seem to work. But the other side of this thing,
Speaker 1: and one of the other areas is the judges in
Speaker 1: the courts themselves. The fact that probation, parole and juvenile
Speaker 1: courts have they yet to talk to the associations. The
Speaker 1: chiefs police had a discussion with you guys. You've had
Speaker 1: open houses and roundtables and everything else, and so far
Speaker 1: they hid behind some sort of judicial canon, some judicial
Speaker 1: code of conduct that prohibits them from sitting down and
Speaker 1: discussing what their mindset is when they release people on
Speaker 1: very low bonds or all are because that would violate
Speaker 1: some sort of judicial code. At the same time, these
Speaker 1: are the same folks who went out when it's time
Speaker 1: to get out the vote and had open houses and
Speaker 1: went out in the community and talked about voting and
Speaker 1: how they're getting good judges on the bench are important.
Speaker 1: So somehow that's different, but the same in that regard though,
Speaker 1: have you yet to have any conversations with the entities
Speaker 1: here that aren't showing up to these roundtables you're holding.
Speaker 6: You know, Scott, To the credit of the common Police judges,
Speaker 6: they did invite us down to speak to all them
Speaker 6: and that conversation went very well. Common Please judges and
Speaker 6: municipal judges have come to these community lead listening sessions,
Speaker 6: and we expect that we're gonna be talking with the
Speaker 6: municipal judges sometime next week. But yes, you're right, we
Speaker 6: have yet to hear from from Juvenile Court, and we
Speaker 6: have yet to hear from Probation and Parole, and you know,
Speaker 6: all these partners in the criminal just system. We need
Speaker 6: to be working together to make Hamilton County safer. You know,
Speaker 6: people will throw around crime stats a lot, and whether
Speaker 6: it's up three percent this year, four percent next year,
Speaker 6: or whatever it is. At the end of the day,
Speaker 6: we live in a new environment where through social media
Speaker 6: and just electronic media in general, people are far better
Speaker 6: informed about I'm in their.
Speaker 3: Own community and neighboring communities.
Speaker 6: And the fact of the matter is, if people feel
Speaker 6: unsafe someplace, it doesn't matter what the statistics say, and
Speaker 6: we have an obligation for people to feel safe in
Speaker 6: every community in Hamlin County.
Speaker 1: All Right, we have the press conference ten with Terry
Speaker 1: Thiji and her attorney fighting back, pushing back against the
Speaker 1: claims of either negligence and competence or something along those lines.
Speaker 1: And the fact that, in the words of Steve n
Speaker 1: basically as we came up with a crime, we came
Speaker 1: up with a charge, and then we're still trying to
Speaker 1: find out what the crime is. They can't find out
Speaker 1: what the crime is, even though the charge sounds familiar.
Speaker 1: But in that regard, I have Tim holloway on he
Speaker 1: is president of the Hamlet County Associations the Chiefs of Police,
Speaker 1: and his reaction to what transpired today and what's transpired
Speaker 1: with Terry Thiji. And also part of the problems we're
Speaker 1: talking about is the juvenile courts, probation prole departments and
Speaker 1: their issue with bonds. You have specific issues relative to this,
Speaker 1: because didn't we just have a case in Coreyville that
Speaker 1: to illustrate the absurdity of this.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I will say this, I'm going to criticize
Speaker 6: Judge Yates on one hand and give him kudos on
Speaker 6: the other hand, I will criticize his decision making process.
Speaker 6: There was a shoplift at Kroger and Coreyville, and when
Speaker 6: he was confronted by Kroger secure he resisted them. The
Speaker 6: police were called. Police officers got involved, and when Judge
Speaker 6: Yates got ready to pass bond to his arraignment, what
Speaker 6: Judge Ates knew was that the defendant had arrested and
Speaker 6: mazed a in intact police officer and a security guard
Speaker 6: from Kroker, and there was a series of charges. I
Speaker 6: don't remember what they all were, but there were several
Speaker 6: different felonies, including robbery and felonious assault, and he was
Speaker 6: able to walk out of the courtroom having only to
Speaker 6: post a five hundred dollars bond. Now, to Judge Yates's credit,
Speaker 6: he did respond to media inquiries on this and gave
Speaker 6: his explanation. So I'm glad that he's being transparent and accountable.
Speaker 6: But on the other hand, you know, Judge Yates said
Speaker 6: that one of the responsibilities of bail or judge and
Speaker 6: setting bail is to consider how dangerous the defendant is
Speaker 6: and whether they're likely to appear in court. And I
Speaker 6: think when anybody with common sense looks at these facts.
Speaker 6: This guy was so bound and determined not to be
Speaker 6: held accountable for a theft that he was willing to
Speaker 6: assault a security guard. He was willing to assault a
Speaker 6: Cincini police officer and spray them with mace and try
Speaker 6: and get away. People like that are dangerous to the community.
Speaker 6: And when he was not even willing to submit to
Speaker 6: an arrest, why would anybody think that this guy's going
Speaker 6: to come back and show up in court voluntarily.
Speaker 3: This was clearly a.
Speaker 6: Situation where the judge could have laid up that set
Speaker 6: of facts and had his bond ten to fifteen higher
Speaker 6: than what he did, and it still would have been
Speaker 6: consistent with a lot of other decisions down there. On
Speaker 6: the other hand, Janakio just a few days put a
Speaker 6: two point six million dollar bond on a defendant on
Speaker 6: a plenty's assault charge. So people have the right to
Speaker 6: expect that the judges are going to work to keep
Speaker 6: the community safe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, just top of my head.
Speaker 1: The way he described that is you have robbery first
Speaker 1: of all, which is the mitigating cause. But then you
Speaker 1: have follows assault, you have obstructing official business, probably you
Speaker 1: have assault on the police officer. There's probably a ton
Speaker 1: of charges involved there, and yet it says, yeah, three
Speaker 1: hundred dollars, that's fine.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it baffles me and you and I talked about
Speaker 6: this before. I'm not looking to take away autonomy and
Speaker 6: discretion from judges. That's not what our afforts are about.
Speaker 6: But it's about making judges that callible for how they
Speaker 6: exercise an autonomy and discretion. And I think I speak
Speaker 6: for a lot of people when when I say that
Speaker 6: that bond in that case is unreasonably low.
Speaker 1: And I'll point out too that this happened when middle
Speaker 1: October sometime maybe a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 6: I believe it was like the fourteenth or the fifteenth,
Speaker 6: so just a handful of days ago.
Speaker 1: So this wasn't prior. This was after we had things
Speaker 1: like Patrick Carringer's murder with Mordecai Black, where we had
Speaker 1: assaults downtown. We've had numerous shootings and murders involving people
Speaker 1: who had a weapon under disability. Hell, we just had
Speaker 1: one at Fountain Square. Well, Fountain Square is one of them,
Speaker 1: but also the one near in between Sycamore and Third
Speaker 1: where you had an individual who was wearing an ankle
Speaker 1: monitor shoot to death. Another person in a car for
Speaker 1: reasons we don't know at this point. And this happened
Speaker 1: after all of those things occurred.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's true.
Speaker 4: Looking for.
Speaker 6: You look at both the Fountain Square shooting and the
Speaker 6: shooting down in between. You're talking about people with extensive
Speaker 6: criminal history. And in the case of the shooting down
Speaker 6: there in between, the both the defendant and the victim
Speaker 6: had extensive criminal history. And I think that's the point
Speaker 6: that we're focused on. It's not a lock everybody up,
Speaker 6: but it's locked the right people up. And there's some
Speaker 6: very dangerous criminals running around Hamilton County, and we need
Speaker 6: to pick out those one hundred to two hundred most
Speaker 6: dangerous criminals, and the entire criminal just system needs to
Speaker 6: figure out how we're going to keep anybody else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, well the in between one would happen after.
Speaker 1: But still, you know, you have a long history of
Speaker 1: people who say, hey, you know what, Okay, fine, I'll
Speaker 1: go look for a job and I'll be accountable to
Speaker 1: probation department there When people just leave minutes after that,
Speaker 1: the ink is even dried in that agreement and they're
Speaker 1: out back committing crimes yet again, and instead of looking
Speaker 1: at and going.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 1: We have people taking advantage of the system. It's time
Speaker 1: to turn the screws down a little bit more than
Speaker 1: the three hundred dollars bond. We have judges just continuing
Speaker 1: to rubber stamp this kind of behavior, and it just
Speaker 1: encouraged go, Hey, three hundred dollars and I can go
Speaker 1: commit more crimes. Good, sign me up. I'll just keep
Speaker 1: lying to the judge and they'll keep slapping me on
Speaker 1: the wrist. It's a revolving door of stupidity, is what
Speaker 1: it is. Tim Holloway is the president of the Hamlet
Speaker 1: County Association of Chiefs of Police.
Speaker 2: Thanks for jumping this morning, Tim, all the best.
Speaker 3: Be safe, all right, thanks Scott.
Speaker 1: Are we get a time out in We've got news
Speaker 1: on the will reset. We'll find out the very latest.
Speaker 1: And the followed continues from the press conference by Steven
Speaker 1: Am at ten o'clock this morning regarding the I guess
Speaker 1: the peaceful surrender of Terry Fiji. She's not going to
Speaker 1: go quietly. It's not going to be a peaceful surrender
Speaker 1: at all. It's going to cost the taxpayers of the
Speaker 1: City of Cincinnati millions to make it go away. All
Speaker 1: She wants to do is stay and have more say
Speaker 1: in how to police things, which sounds like a reasonable request.
Speaker 1: We'll see how it plays out. More to follow here
Speaker 1: Willie's going to pick us up at twelve oh six day.
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, we'll be talking about this
Speaker 1: all day long here seven hundred wlbody time to talk.
Speaker 9: About money, how to make it, how to keep it,
Speaker 9: and how to keep others off your stash. This is
Speaker 9: all Worth Advice with Andy Shaeffer.
Speaker 1: All Right, we tap out effecting from the police chief
Speaker 1: thing to well your money, because I hate talking about
Speaker 1: the same thing for hours at a time. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about something that you've got more skin and control in
Speaker 1: the game, and that is what's in your wallet or
Speaker 1: maybe not even know all on. That is our buddy,
Speaker 1: Andy Shaffer from all Worth Financial and simply Money.
Speaker 2: Welcome, how are.
Speaker 3: You, Good morning, Scott.
Speaker 1: I'm doing great drama today. We got drama all over
Speaker 1: the place. Drama continues. Let's get into the market stuff.
Speaker 1: And first and foremost, I'm curious yesterday we had a
Speaker 1: huge outage with Amazon Web services. Didn't see what the
Speaker 1: markets did yesterday?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we see that.
Speaker 1: Scarce Helliy, because you're talking about a lot of commerce
Speaker 1: getting shut down for a good period yesterday, banking, security, retail,
Speaker 1: all that stuff. When these kind of things happen, what
Speaker 1: kind of impact do they have in the short term?
Speaker 1: On short term, but you know, you wonder if this
Speaker 1: thing went on for days, which is entirely possible with
Speaker 1: the hacks that we've had lately that we've talked about
Speaker 1: the impact that they would have on the markets.
Speaker 3: Not much.
Speaker 8: Well, it depends on what kind of breach it was.
Speaker 8: You know, these types of companies, whether it's Amazon or
Speaker 8: any other big type of retailer, you know, gets hacked
Speaker 8: and attempted hacked all the time. And you know, for
Speaker 8: us at all Worth Financial, you know, our second biggest
Speaker 8: department is our technology and security team. So it's very
Speaker 8: important number one to make sure that you continue to
Speaker 8: do business as you always do business, but number two,
Speaker 8: to make sure that nothing nefarious is going on where
Speaker 8: they're trying to, you know, hold this company hostage for
Speaker 8: ransom or whatever it may be. I think in this case,
Speaker 8: you know, as long as Amazon can get back up
Speaker 8: and running fairly quickly, it's not a big deal. But
Speaker 8: if you remember years ago, there was a breach with
Speaker 8: target and a lot of individuals credit was compromised. You know,
Speaker 8: I was one of them. I got a letter said, hey,
Speaker 8: you want to reach out to you know, the three
Speaker 8: major credit agencies and probably freeze your credit. That can
Speaker 8: have a more serious impact. But the markets did just
Speaker 8: find yesterday didn't have a significant magnificant impact on Amazon
Speaker 8: or economy because it is such a robust company and
Speaker 8: so is our economy.
Speaker 1: Well you're gonna see that someday there we're going to
Speaker 1: have a massive outage like this, and it's really going
Speaker 1: to rock if it went on maybe for a day
Speaker 1: or two or longer. We've seen companies be held hostage
Speaker 1: by malware, you know, kettering health for example, recent local
Speaker 1: example local media spells around here where they were had malware.
Speaker 1: Now that that's certainly probably not gonna affect something as
Speaker 1: big as Amazon, But if we had a major outage
Speaker 1: like that, the markets would just pumble. I would think,
Speaker 1: I just wonder how long we would go without those
Speaker 1: services and with those platforms and now with that commerce
Speaker 1: before that had a effect on what we're talking about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would like.
Speaker 8: To think these companies are taking the necessary precautions, not
Speaker 8: only for protection but also for troubleshooting and rectifying any
Speaker 8: situation that they have. And like I said, you know,
Speaker 8: most of these companies, the technology and securities teams are massive.
Speaker 8: So I'm not saying that it's never going to happen.
Speaker 8: It probably will, but hopefully, you know, we we have
Speaker 8: the ability to be able to go in, fix it,
Speaker 8: straighten it out, and get back on track to what
Speaker 8: we do in the United States and that's produced and.
Speaker 3: Continue to generate revenue.
Speaker 1: You know, I was talking to someone who has vast
Speaker 1: knowledge of this and they said, you know, real culprit
Speaker 1: in this whole thing, and what we're talking about this scenario,
Speaker 1: it's private equity. Is that a lot of these huge
Speaker 1: vendors get private equity mont which is great the beginning
Speaker 1: because they can invest in research and development and infrastructure
Speaker 1: all that stuff. But as it goes on and they
Speaker 1: want to continue you know, high returns, high dividends because
Speaker 1: that's what they do, they will then cut corners at
Speaker 1: the software that would keep them on the cutting edge,
Speaker 1: and they fall further and further behind, thus causing more
Speaker 1: and more things like this to happen. I think it's
Speaker 1: a really interesting analysis of it.
Speaker 8: I think that would be one of the last steps.
Speaker 8: I have a lot of experience with private equity. You know,
Speaker 8: with with private equity, you know, the saying goes as
Speaker 8: long as you are producing and continuing to be a
Speaker 8: profitable company, private equity usually leaves you alone. It keeps
Speaker 8: management in place. You know, they invest in you for
Speaker 8: a reason. They like your outlook for the most part. Now,
Speaker 8: if you start to go sideways and profits start to diminish,
Speaker 8: that's when you know the board gets involved and starts
Speaker 8: making cuts and making decisions. But I think for private equity,
Speaker 8: you know they have their investors at heart as well,
Speaker 8: and if you start cutting technology, innovation, protection and security,
Speaker 8: that can not only harm the business that you have,
Speaker 8: but you know, you answer to your investors. So I think,
Speaker 8: you know, if push comes to shove, that's way down
Speaker 8: the list of things that private equity would cut.
Speaker 1: Andy Shaffer with all Worth Financial. We'll pivot to what
Speaker 1: a week ago President Trump said, We're going to hit
Speaker 1: China with one hundred percent terrorists because of the rare
Speaker 1: earth mineral thing.
Speaker 2: And now we're walking that threat back, so more of that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, well, it seems like that's kind of been the
Speaker 8: rhetoric that we've seen. You know, Donald Trump is bombastic,
Speaker 8: and he placed these threats, particularly on China, and you know,
Speaker 8: two fridays ago, we saw the market pull back significantly
Speaker 8: when he threatened those hundred percent tariffs on China. You know,
Speaker 8: that was basically in retaliation for the export of restrictions
Speaker 8: on the rare earth minerals. But late last week President
Speaker 8: walked that back. He said, you know, this is not
Speaker 8: really sustainable to have one hundred percent tariffs on China,
Speaker 8: and the Marcus enjoyed that, and it continued to soften.
Speaker 8: We're going to see Secretary Scott pssent. He's going to
Speaker 8: meet with Chinese Vice President Eye and they will meet
Speaker 8: Malaysia next week to prepare for the meeting between Donald
Speaker 8: Trump and Chinese President She later this month. And that's
Speaker 8: important because we have a November tenth tariff deadline that's
Speaker 8: still looming with China. So that ninety eight truce that
Speaker 8: we had with China that's about to expire. I think
Speaker 8: the fact that President Trump and President g are still
Speaker 8: on track to meet later this month prior to the
Speaker 8: end of that ninety day truce and that November tenth
Speaker 8: deadline is positive and I think the markets have reflected.
Speaker 1: That even with that, we're going to threaten you with
Speaker 1: one hundred percent tariffs kind of like out of nowhere.
Speaker 8: Yeah. Well, you know, I think a lot of that
Speaker 8: rhetoric is used for leverage. I think what Donald Trump
Speaker 8: wants to do is, you know, let the Chinese know
Speaker 8: that we do have leverage in place. There are things
Speaker 8: that we can do. Our economy can withstand this type
Speaker 8: of trade war a lot better than China can, and
Speaker 8: I think President she knows that. I think both sides
Speaker 8: want to come to an agreement. We need China and
Speaker 8: China needs us, and I think they're both aware of that.
Speaker 1: Okay, So back to the other big issue at hand,
Speaker 1: and that is the umpteenthday. I think what twenty days
Speaker 1: now government shutdown. That is a big question mark as well.
Speaker 1: We know that people aren't getting their paychecks in the
Speaker 1: federal government. Doesn't seem to be impacting markets at all too.
Speaker 1: But in that regard, we're also not getting the government
Speaker 1: data to indicate where our economy is.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know that we're on day twenty one now.
Speaker 8: The government, YEP, still remains a major policy variable. We
Speaker 8: don't really know what it's going to look like it
Speaker 8: keeps the data in the darkly we've talked about. You know,
Speaker 8: it forces US and other firms like us to build
Speaker 8: analysis on estimates for different types of information that we
Speaker 8: don't have, So you know, there's a lot of algorithms
Speaker 8: involved and a lot of math that's involved with that.
Speaker 8: But what we're showing is that initial jobless claims near
Speaker 8: about two hundred and fifteen thousand in mid October. That
Speaker 8: implies that layoffs remain low despite a lot of this
Speaker 8: policy noise.
Speaker 3: So we'll see.
Speaker 8: You know, I think right now we're still in the
Speaker 8: environment where companies are not hiring very much, but they're
Speaker 8: also not firing very much. So you know, hopefully we
Speaker 8: can get Congress back in session. It looks like it's
Speaker 8: starting to tilt the way of you know, opening back
Speaker 8: up the government, but there's still a long.
Speaker 3: Way to go for them.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: He's Andy Schaeffer with all Worth Financial every Tuesday morning
Speaker 1: on the Scotsland Show seven hundred w alwis airon of
Speaker 1: course be.
Speaker 2: The iHeartRadio app. Take that wherever you go.
Speaker 1: You can listen in real time or podcast or later
Speaker 1: if you wish. So we again, it sounds like because
Speaker 1: we're not getting the data, we just are going with
Speaker 1: the numbers we had before the shutdown, which your inflation
Speaker 1: employment outlooks are, well, haven't moved.
Speaker 2: They might have, We just don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't know.
Speaker 8: But fet Shairman Powell basically said that, you know, he
Speaker 8: believes just that he thinks that inflation unemployment outlooks haven't
Speaker 8: changed very much. You know, we're going to get a
Speaker 8: lot of Fed speakers this week, like we always do.
Speaker 8: They love to talk. We're going to the Fed's going
Speaker 8: to meet later this month October twenty eighth and twenty ninth.
Speaker 8: They'll make a decision on interest rates. I do suspect
Speaker 8: that we will see an interest rate cut of about
Speaker 8: a quarter percent. Fet Shairman Powell basically said, Hey, we're
Speaker 8: keeping that rate cut on the on the table. The
Speaker 8: markets have basically taken that into account at this point
Speaker 8: of pricing that in to the games that we've had.
Speaker 8: So we'll see what they have to say. I always
Speaker 8: look forward to hearing what feed Sharman Powell has to
Speaker 8: say on those Wednesdays and particut in the press conferences afterwards.
Speaker 1: Okay, Andy, there's something that was bubbling. I think in
Speaker 1: the credit markets. I saw right, I was I forget
Speaker 1: the two companies two principles. But there were some loan
Speaker 1: fraud issues.
Speaker 8: Yes, So we were seeing a little bit of some
Speaker 8: issues with regional banks. There were some regional letters Science
Speaker 8: Bank Corp. And Western Alliance. They disclosed that there was
Speaker 8: some alleged loan fraud tied to funds buying distressed commercial mortgages.
Speaker 8: And that's basically a fancy way of saying, hey, they
Speaker 8: were gobbling up some things that were not good investments
Speaker 8: and they have some losses because of it. They had
Speaker 8: tens of millions of dollars and losses. You know, so
Speaker 8: on the surface that doesn't seem like it's a big deal. Now,
Speaker 8: the sell off in those bank stocks were pretty heavy.
Speaker 8: And what happens is is there can be a potential
Speaker 8: fallout for other smaller regional banks as well. We went
Speaker 8: through this three or four years ago. I don't know
Speaker 8: if you remember, but there were some banks up in
Speaker 8: the Pacific Northwest that had some issues with their balance
Speaker 8: sheet as well, and the threat was that, hey, is
Speaker 8: this going to be a fallout with all regional banks
Speaker 8: and smaller banks could be more systematic. We don't believe
Speaker 8: it is. Fortunately locally here, fifth Third, for example, reported
Speaker 8: smaller than expected lost provisions. So we'll see where it goes.
Speaker 8: We're not too concerned about it at the moment.
Speaker 1: We haven't had a big banking crisis in a while
Speaker 1: or a way over go for one.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, big banking crisises are hard to go buy it.
Speaker 8: You know, I've been around long enough to remember two
Speaker 8: thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, I actually held
Speaker 8: some Leman Brothers bonds that went the fault, and so
Speaker 8: that was a challenging time. But yeah, we haven't had
Speaker 8: a big one in a while. You know, you hope
Speaker 8: that we're not due for one. I think that right
Speaker 8: now when we look at the overall picture and the banks.
Speaker 8: You know, banks still have the ability to borrow from
Speaker 8: the federal Reserve, and right now we're not seeing a
Speaker 8: lot of banks doing that. So that is a safety
Speaker 8: net for a lot of banks that things start to
Speaker 8: go sideway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'm here.
Speaker 1: We're not hearing about the financial markets that regard a
Speaker 1: big banking crisis. The one bubble you hear about bubbles bubble,
Speaker 1: it's a bubble of the housing bubble of two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight, the dot com bubble, the bubble, the big bubble.
Speaker 2: Now is AI.
Speaker 1: Is there any validity in that argument that the and
Speaker 1: it's going to burst and it's going to be like
Speaker 1: nineteen twenty nine all over again.
Speaker 8: Well, I think the reason that people say that is
Speaker 8: because the price for AI stocks is very high right now.
Speaker 8: And when you do an analysis on stocks, you look at, Okay,
Speaker 8: what's the profit versus what's the price? They call it
Speaker 8: the pe ratio profit over earnings. Well, the profits for
Speaker 8: these companies aren't significantly high, but we have all this
Speaker 8: money flowing into the price of the stocks, so they're
Speaker 8: overvalued right now. And the reason is is So, to
Speaker 8: answer your question directly, I'm not too concerned about an
Speaker 8: AI bubble, and the reason is is that the outlook
Speaker 8: for AI is significant. This is going to be a
Speaker 8: revolution like we had in the early two thousands with
Speaker 8: the dot com era, the Internet and those types of things.
Speaker 8: So to me, this is a big deal. I think
Speaker 8: investors understand that this is going to be the future
Speaker 8: of our society, and so they're comfortable paying a little
Speaker 8: bit of a premium with the expectations that those companies
Speaker 8: are going to continue to be profitable over the next
Speaker 8: fifteen twenty years.
Speaker 2: Got it?
Speaker 1: Okay, So we have the government showdown to shut down
Speaker 1: the showdown of twenty one days now full three weeks
Speaker 1: into this whole thing, and then longer it goes and
Speaker 1: there's more pain, and eventually they come to a reasonable
Speaker 1: solution saying.
Speaker 2: Okay, we got to stop because people are tired of this.
Speaker 1: But there's no there's absolutely no ground swell by the
Speaker 1: American people to push that narrative. So we just sit
Speaker 1: there and go, yeah, who cares, man, The government's it's
Speaker 1: open as shut. We don't care, and the markets continue,
Speaker 1: everything's doing well. I said, it's not until we start
Speaker 1: to feel some pay And I mentioned how much theater
Speaker 1: there is in this thing too. I think it's funny
Speaker 1: because it's kind of like the analogy I gave is
Speaker 1: you close your business, you'd by by sending like the
Speaker 1: receptionists home. So somebody shows up and goes, well, the
Speaker 1: receptions on it, but there's you know, ninety nine percent
Speaker 1: of the people in the back are still working.
Speaker 2: It's just the reception desk gets closed. That's what this
Speaker 2: is like.
Speaker 1: We're closing parks and all the making it just uncomfortable
Speaker 1: enough at TSA and airports for people to take notice.
Speaker 2: And in your world.
Speaker 1: I think it's funny because the Beer of Labor Statists
Speaker 1: recalled its staff to compile these September CPI report. You
Speaker 1: need that report because that's what they based the cost
Speaker 1: of living the coal adjustments for social security, because we
Speaker 1: can't piss old people off when it comes to their
Speaker 1: social security.
Speaker 8: There go, I mean you got it exactly right. Yeah,
Speaker 8: I mean, yeah, you know, most of the government still
Speaker 8: remains open. But could you imagine if people that are
Speaker 8: getting social security did not get their cost of living
Speaker 8: that would wipe out most of the incumbents and.
Speaker 2: Concres So there you go.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's funny how that works.
Speaker 2: It's just funny. Well we better do that.
Speaker 1: Well, well, the old people are the people who vote,
Speaker 1: are going to be really mad at is if they
Speaker 1: don't get their three percent. So where you get to
Speaker 1: come back to the office and do that. Yeah, to
Speaker 1: show you how serious the shutdown is and government is. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's the umbrella of seriousness because they dress
Speaker 1: in very very expensive suits and coats and ties and
Speaker 1: call each other gentlemen and gentlewomen and things like that.
Speaker 1: But you know, the actual behind the scenes is a
Speaker 1: lot more comical than that. He's Andy Schaeffer. All we're
Speaker 1: all worth financial. Their show simply money. There's at six o'clock.
Speaker 1: I'm fifty five KRC. You can check it out over
Speaker 1: there and we talk every Tuesday about your money. Andy,
Speaker 1: all the best. Have a great week. We'll talk next Tuesday.
Speaker 3: You too, Scott, talk you next.
Speaker 1: So, of course, the big story going today is Terry Thiji.
Speaker 1: We had a press conference at ten o'clock, just at
Speaker 1: ten o'clock this morning. The principle involved was her attorney
Speaker 1: talking about talking about she's fired, she suspended. The whole
Speaker 1: thing is a dumpster fire. But again that dumpster fire
Speaker 1: is just a small dumpster fire in front of the
Speaker 1: large tire fire that is city Hall. Particularly the administration,
Speaker 1: the A F. Tad peer Vaal administration. They just don't
Speaker 1: handle things well at all. And that led, of course
Speaker 1: to the crime wave that led the dismissal of Terry Thiji.
Speaker 1: It was just a month ago where aftat peer Vest
Speaker 1: so no, no, the crime numbers are down, and now a
Speaker 1: month later, with an election looming, he fires his police chief.
Speaker 2: That makes sense to me either.
Speaker 1: But again, it's politics, and when you either talk about
Speaker 1: the shutdown or the joke a city hall, it's all
Speaker 1: the same argument that these are not serious people that
Speaker 1: act a lot more serious, and we look at them
Speaker 1: and go, oh, they must know something we don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think they do. I really really don't.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Willie's going to pick up the Fiji topic
Speaker 1: at twelve oh six today, right after a news update
Speaker 1: and more to follow on the Home of the Best
Speaker 1: Bengals coverage seven hundred WWT Cincinnati