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Speaker 1: You found Cincinnati's ESPN fifteenth third, Well you sure have.

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Speaker 1: What's up?

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Speaker 2: Good afternoon, I'm Legger. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. Thanks

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Speaker 2: for listening. Hopefully you're having an unbelievable Tuesday. Paul Danner

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Speaker 2: Juniors here from The Athletic and the Growler podcast.

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Speaker 3: Covering the Bengals, fighting about the Bengals, podcasting about the Bengals,

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Speaker 3: and tweeting about the Bengals at Paul Danner Junior, there's

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Speaker 3: a few things to discuss.

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Speaker 1: How are we doing doing good? How are you good?

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Speaker 3: Man?

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Speaker 1: I always like it when we record something Tuesday morning

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Speaker 1: on the podcast and it's already old news by the

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Speaker 1: time I reach you here at three o'clock.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we're talking about Mike Tomlin, talking about Mike Tomlin

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Speaker 2: out done, stepping down in Pittsburgh with time left on

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Speaker 2: his contract.

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Speaker 1: One man remains the dean of AFC North coaches, I

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Speaker 1: mean almost the dean of the NFL at this point.

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Speaker 1: I mean you're talking. He's on the short list of

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Speaker 1: longest ten yured coaches in the NFL. I just was

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Speaker 1: retweeted it. There's red, Yeah, there's like seven. Him and

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Speaker 1: Lafleur came in the same very close to the same time.

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Speaker 1: I just retweeted it. I have to go find the

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Speaker 1: exact list here. Let's see. So Red McVeigh seventeen, you

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Speaker 1: had McVeigh, Shanahan and McDermott was the seventeen class. Obviously

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Speaker 1: Andy Reid was hiring twenty thirteen. And then you have

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Speaker 1: Zach Taylor and Matt Lafleur in twenty nineteen. The old head.

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Speaker 1: There's the old heads, Laflour and Zach Taylor. I mean,

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Speaker 1: incredible that this is where, this is where we're at,

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Speaker 1: but this is where we're at.

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Speaker 2: This is there felt like last night watching that game

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Speaker 2: against the Texans, there felt like a sense of finality,

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Speaker 2: especially listening to Troy Aikman talked during the broadcast about

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Speaker 2: Aaron Rodgers as well, but Mike Tomlin and maybe having

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Speaker 2: his pick of broadcasting jobs during the game there there

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Speaker 2: felt like that felt like it. Yeah, that there there

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Speaker 2: was a sense of like this is this is changing,

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Speaker 2: this is over, this is it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It has a feeling of like one of those

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Speaker 1: worst kept secret deals where the certain people knew yeah

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Speaker 1: and were hinting and trying not to say what they

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Speaker 1: kind of want to say. And then especially when you

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Speaker 1: get into something like a broadcast team like that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, it felt like that what it's this is

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Speaker 1: going to be such an interesting dynamic because the Steelers

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Speaker 1: are still in purgatory. Yeah, Like, I still Tomlin to me,

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Speaker 1: while it was old and stale or whatever you want

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Speaker 1: to call it there and they lost these playoff games,

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Speaker 1: he's still a good Like, he's still a really good coach.

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Speaker 1: They were in roster purgatory. Yes, more than coach purgatory. Agree, Like,

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Speaker 1: I think that Tomlin has every ability to win in

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Speaker 1: the postseason despite the struggles that they've had. They just

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Speaker 1: haven't been able to figure out quarterback. They have invested

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Speaker 1: in aging players, and maybe part of that is he's

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Speaker 1: worked them too hard during the course of the year.

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Speaker 1: You can debate the philosophy on that, but like, you

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Speaker 1: got to have somebody that can come in and have

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Speaker 1: an answer to fixing quarterback, and I just don't know

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Speaker 1: that anybody can come in and immediately push that button

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Speaker 1: with where Pittsburgh stands and where the league sits outside

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Speaker 1: of another version of the band aids that they've been

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Speaker 1: doing with these free agent mid tier guys.

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Speaker 2: You think of nine, ten years ago when they had

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Speaker 2: Ben Roethlisberger still was you know about a B a

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Speaker 2: B level quarterback, still very capable, and they had Le'Veon

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Speaker 2: Bell and Antonio Brown and there was a real dynamic offense.

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Speaker 2: And then since the immediate aftermath of that to now,

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Speaker 2: the offense every year for them has looked exactly the same. Yes,

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Speaker 2: Houston exacerbated that last night with that defense. And I

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Speaker 2: don't watch every Pittsburgh Steelers game, but watching them as

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Speaker 2: I do playing the Bengals and just being a follower

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Speaker 2: of the league, it feels like, independent of coordinator, quarterback, personnel, weaponry,

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Speaker 2: offensive line, that the offense looks exactly the same every

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Speaker 2: single year. I don't know how that's going to change

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Speaker 2: from this year to next.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, if you bring in somebody with more

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Speaker 1: of a modern offensive philosophy, you're like, okay, let's tap

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Speaker 1: into the massive McVeigh shanahan the whole league at this Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but they've never done anything like that there. They've had

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Speaker 1: defensive coaches, guys with different backgrounds, you know, Arthur Smith,

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Speaker 1: who's not exactly in that. So if you're maybe there,

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Speaker 1: it's like a hey, a Clint Kubiak or somebody that's

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Speaker 1: bringing an offensive person, but you never know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: think about how outside of the box Mike Tomlin was

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Speaker 1: as an original higher for them. I mean he was

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Speaker 1: not even really I mean he was recordinated for one year. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but like very much off the mat. Who is that right?

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Speaker 1: And he's been here that long. They're not afraid to

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Speaker 1: do that. And you gotta feel like you can get

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Speaker 1: an incredible coach just due to the stability that you

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Speaker 1: know you're gonna have there compared to anywhere else. So

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Speaker 1: a fascinating search for me. But you know, the fallout

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Speaker 1: in the North is Okay, we keep talking about the

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Speaker 1: pressure on this team to win in twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 1: like this is just one level up. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: the same way of talking about this past season where

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Speaker 1: there it was, it was accessible when you wasted a chance.

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Speaker 1: This feels like you had the year where your offense

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Speaker 1: was super healthy, you went nine to eight and didn't

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Speaker 1: make the playoffs, right, you had the year this past

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Speaker 1: year where the North was a disaster. You get Joe

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Speaker 1: Burrow back in record time and you still can't make

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Speaker 1: You couldn't find a way to have it relevant. Really,

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Speaker 1: by the time you get here and make the playoffs.

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Speaker 1: The entire division is now changing head coaches, except in

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Speaker 1: your pump up the continuity. If you can't get off

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Speaker 1: to a fast start and try to win this division,

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Speaker 1: that's three strikes, right, And I think we've it's felt

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Speaker 1: that way for a while, and it certainly feels like

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Speaker 1: this is only putting more of a spotlight on the

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Speaker 1: just extreme pressure cooker of this year for Zach Taylor,

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Speaker 1: and who knows, maybe by connection when you look at

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Speaker 1: the support statement put out by Mike Brown Duke Togan

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: And then if things don't work, the Bengals will just

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Speaker 2: hire Mike Tomlin, trade for apparently, Oh that's right, Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 2: I mean you know he's got one more year left

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Speaker 2: Mike Tomlin does on his coaching contract, correct, right, So

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Speaker 2: if you wanted him now, you'd have to trade for him.

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Speaker 1: My guess is the Bengals aren't gonna do that.

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Speaker 2: But you and I both know if Mike Tomlin is

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Speaker 2: not coaching a team in twenty twenty six, this entire

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Speaker 2: season will play out against the backdrop of people demanding

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Speaker 2: that they hire Mike Tomlin, this coach that so many

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Speaker 2: of us have spent years making fun of will suddenly

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Speaker 2: be the apple of our eyes?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh, this will happen with so many I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is what this is, what it always is. I'm

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Speaker 1: curious what what TV job like? Where where's he gonna

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Speaker 1: where's he gonna land? Is it? Is it gonna be?

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Speaker 1: I guess is it gonna be Fox? Is it gonna be?

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Speaker 1: Is it gonna be something like Belichick where he's doing

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Speaker 1: a little bit more kind of unique stuff with different

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Speaker 1: people to re I I don't, I don't. I'm curious

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Speaker 1: to see what that ends up looking like. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean I'm imagining that's a studio role.

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Speaker 2: Probably Mike Tomlin sitting in a booth calling you know,

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Speaker 2: uh panthers, uh buccaneers on the third Fox Team.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I like him on like a Monday. I like

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Speaker 1: him on like a reaction type show. But would be interesting.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, that's that's the path, right, that's the

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Speaker 1: rehab path. You go, you do a year of TV,

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Speaker 1: and then you're everybody. He's clearly trying to take this

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Speaker 1: Sean Payton path here at this point, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this was the same concept, the same idea. A lot

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Speaker 1: of other stuff going on with Sean but like then

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Speaker 1: gets right into this. He's gets this huge contract for Denver,

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Speaker 1: and because he had created this idea, he's gonna come

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Speaker 1: in and fix it. And here he is having fixed

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Speaker 1: it for the number one seed in the AFC. And

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Speaker 1: I'm sure Mike is like, I would love to actually

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Speaker 1: coach a team with a quarterback again at some point,

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Speaker 1: and that'd be nice. The Bengals have a quarterback. You

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Speaker 1: do have a quarterback, So so here you go.

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Speaker 2: So there it is. I know he's got ties to

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Speaker 2: the reach, he has ties to the region. He's worked

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Speaker 2: for a mom and pop franchise before, right, I mean

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Speaker 2: the difference division, the differences between the Bengals and Steelers

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Speaker 2: structurally are not that different, right, I mean there's not

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Speaker 2: that many. So yeah, Mike Tomlin, Bengals head coach, twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: Seven sounds good. Sure, market Town.

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Speaker 2: All right, you're at the Big press conference on on Friday.

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Speaker 2: I was Big Media Events the event you wrote about

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Speaker 2: your takeaways? I did, Oh, I love when I love when.

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Speaker 1: You print him out for me.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, because it's easier for me to high stuff.

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Speaker 2: I'm still a big print guy.

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Speaker 1: I know you are. Besides, we have reams of paper

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Speaker 1: here that somebody is paid for. I was just thinking

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Speaker 1: about how big of a prink guy you are, because

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Speaker 1: I was just texting with Dan Brugo a little earlier,

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Speaker 1: talking to a little bit of just some random draft stuff. Heck.

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, mo's got to be like getting

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Speaker 1: the toner on demand right now.

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Speaker 2: So a few things and we're up against it. So

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Speaker 2: we'll carry this to the next segment. I guess the

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Speaker 2: first one would be that thing on Friday took on

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Speaker 2: a life of its own. It's an hours hour long.

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Speaker 2: There's people who don't cover the team who are there.

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Speaker 2: We're promoting it like it's a game. It doesn't have

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Speaker 2: to be that way. But my guess is, and you

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Speaker 2: address this, you can tell me if I'm wrong. I

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Speaker 2: feel like that event, the Duke Tobin end of year

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Speaker 2: press conference, should be a thing, and I'm guessing it will.

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Speaker 1: It felt like he suggested as much at the end,

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Speaker 1: with a if you guys want this, I'm happy to

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Speaker 1: do it. And I think we all kind of we're

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Speaker 1: looking at each other like, yeah, we want this, like

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Speaker 1: we always want this, And I feel like it's fine

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Speaker 1: to say I think this should be the punishment for

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Speaker 1: not making the playoffs, is you have to do this

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Speaker 1: because it's it's fine, Like, if you make the playoffs,

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Speaker 1: your schedule ends up closer to where he was talking

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Speaker 1: in Mobile anyway. But if we could just have it

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Speaker 1: in Cincinnati, I think everyone would appreciate that. But I

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Speaker 1: if that's what he's saying, that he's happy to do that,

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Speaker 1: then I think this should one hundred percent be a

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Speaker 1: thing every single year. There's no reason it shouldn't. He's

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Speaker 1: in this position and he should have to answer those

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Speaker 1: questions and it was fine. I do think it becomes

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Speaker 1: less of the event and kind of firing lines that

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Speaker 1: it ended up being when it happens regularly. I think

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Speaker 1: the build up and the hype and the he needs

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Speaker 1: to be doing this that went on for over a

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Speaker 1: year when we were talking, you know, even further back

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Speaker 1: than that, all of that building up to that moment,

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Speaker 1: I think turned it into what it became. I don't

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Speaker 1: think it has to be like that. There's probably ways

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Speaker 1: to avoid it being quite like that that you can

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Speaker 1: figure out logistically on their end or our end or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But I do think that it being a thing feels

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Speaker 1: like if he's gonna say i'll do it. Then we're

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Speaker 1: gonna say, let's do it. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I did enjoy the hype. I did enjoy the build up.

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Speaker 2: I enjoyed the fact that we were running promos for it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I enjoyed the fact that there were folks who would

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Speaker 2: like put their entire early.

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Speaker 1: Friday afternoon on pause.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so they can listen to And by the way,

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Speaker 2: I never want to hear how there's fan apathy ever again,

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Speaker 2: because you had people who in the middle of a

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Speaker 2: work day, We're putting everything aside to listen to a

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Speaker 2: press conference involving Duke Tobin. Right, so miss me with this,

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Speaker 2: nobody cares about the Bengals anymore. That was a media event.

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Speaker 2: Every Bengals fan I know was at least paying attention.

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Speaker 2: Many were following on social media, Many were listening on

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Speaker 2: ESPN fifteen thirty. Many were watching on the Bengals Twitter feed.

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Speaker 2: But folks were locked into a press conference. Ain't no apathy.

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Speaker 2: No TV was preempting programming. Yes, was the Laker or

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Speaker 2: whoever's on TV during the day.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: There were lots of commercials for the general and personal

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Speaker 2: injury attorneys that had to get made good. This week

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Speaker 2: because they were carrying the press conference.

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Speaker 1: Well that's the that's the point is that's people want

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Speaker 1: people want this, Fans deserve this, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: They and now I knew they were going to be disappointed.

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Speaker 1: Of course they were. Anybody that like, this has happened again.

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Speaker 1: Like we've talked to Duke so many times, and it

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Speaker 1: is anticipated every time you do, and every time. He's

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Speaker 1: not a newsbreaker. He's not a he's not a shake

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Speaker 1: he's not a giving stuff up guy. Like he's not

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Speaker 1: a drop bombs at the at at media availability type.

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Speaker 1: He's fairly polished turn in that regard. Like I knew

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Speaker 1: that that was how it was going to be coming

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Speaker 1: out of it. It would have been stunning if it

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Speaker 1: would have come anywhere near the hype that was happening

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Speaker 1: towards it. But that said, it's still great that the

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Speaker 1: hype existed to put a point and a focus on

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Speaker 1: the fact that it needed to happen.

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Speaker 2: I said on Thursday, I think we're building this up

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Speaker 2: to the point that folks are expecting a show. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it's not going to be a show. You may

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Speaker 2: not like the answers, you may not like the questions,

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Speaker 2: it's not going to be a show, and so I

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Speaker 2: think the build up invariably set the entire thing up

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Speaker 2: to disappoint people because it wasn't going to be a performance.

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Speaker 1: I said this on my podcast, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: I felt like people thought that it should be like

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Speaker 1: remember when the guy threw the shoe at George Bush.

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Speaker 1: It should be like I think people expected me to

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Speaker 1: ask a question and then throw a shoe at them,

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Speaker 1: and then my follow up should be the other shoe.

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Speaker 1: I'del like that's what people wanted or expected this, like

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Speaker 1: you know, and this massive yell yelling back and forth

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Speaker 1: or whatever, and it was I think everybody just had

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Speaker 1: their their questions if they wanted to get in. It's

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Speaker 1: just hard when you can't really have a conversation, right,

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Speaker 1: like and that's the like this is on the on

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Speaker 1: the on the like totem pole of things and and

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Speaker 1: and platforms and places that you can do this Like

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Speaker 1: this is pretty low right in terms of getting getting

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Speaker 1: in actual answers. But I do understand that why this

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Speaker 1: is where it had to be and in this particular moment.

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Speaker 1: But you were never gonna get like a good conversation

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Speaker 1: about the state of things in that room.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, I have an idea for next to

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Speaker 2: yours press conference that I want to share with you.

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Speaker 2: We also have to talk about your free agency preview. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we have a lot of a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of that's the one that made you make a weird sound. Yes, yes, speaking.

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Speaker 1: It's nineteen minutes after three o'clock. Mogger.

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Speaker 2: Paul Danner Junior is here from The Athletic and the

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Speaker 2: Growler Podcast. He's here till four. We are here till

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Speaker 2: six on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 1: Twenty three after three o'clock.

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Speaker 2: This is ESPN fifteen thirty Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic,

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Speaker 2: the latest edition of the Growler Podcast with apparently my

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Speaker 2: crappy internet connection.

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Speaker 1: Is up right now. I didn't know what to do.

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Speaker 1: I watched, Yeah, I watched it and it wasn't good.

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Speaker 1: So it's okay. I fear something out. The audio was

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Speaker 1: The audio was fine, Yeah, the audio was fine. It

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Speaker 1: was rainy in and out of some grain as a time.

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Speaker 2: You ever seen video from like the International Space Station, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's what I look like for my basement.

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Speaker 1: Why can't we figure this out? I don't know why.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Oh, I have to get on that

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Speaker 1: all right.

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Speaker 2: So a few things about the press conference Megapress conference,

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Speaker 2: which lasted sixty three minutes, in your opinion is we've

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Speaker 2: done it before, a fair counter to fan distrust.

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Speaker 1: It's an audio platform. I need you to tell you

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Speaker 1: need me to talk about that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, because that was that was a theme, right,

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Speaker 2: We've we've done it before. So there's fan distrust, which

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Speaker 2: is a large part why everybody wanted this big megapress conference.

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Speaker 2: Even so fan distrust. The message from Duke was essentially

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Speaker 2: we've had successes, We've done it before. Is that a

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Speaker 2: fair counter to the fan distrust? No?

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Speaker 1: I mean I think that the idea that something that

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Speaker 1: worked for or five years ago is definitely going to

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Speaker 1: work now is not. You would you wouldn't accept that

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Speaker 1: from your coaching staff saying well, look, the types of

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Speaker 1: offenses we were running in twenty twenty one are still

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Speaker 1: going to work exactly the same as they do. Know

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Speaker 1: the League of Alls every year, right, it changes, and

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Speaker 1: that is the same in the off season, the league

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Speaker 1: of alves and the way people use certain contract stretchers

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Speaker 1: more wide widely, the way players expect more types of

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Speaker 1: certain to whether it's year two guarantees or void years

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Speaker 1: or any of the things you're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: the way free agency is handled, the way that picks

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Speaker 1: are coming into the league, like every Yes, some things

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Speaker 1: stay the same, but things do change and evolve, and

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Speaker 1: you guys have to evolve with it. Now. Is that

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Speaker 1: saying that they can't come in here and it can

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Speaker 1: end up looking like it did four and five years

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Speaker 1: ago in terms of execution. Sure, but you can't shoot

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Speaker 1: down the idea that some things maybe need to be

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Speaker 1: done differently because the league changes and you need to

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Speaker 1: change along with it more often. And it's a lot

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Speaker 1: of I'm sure the frustration with the way people talk

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Speaker 1: about the scouting staff size, right, and it's not necessarily

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Speaker 1: about the people doing it. It said, Okay, everyone else is

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Speaker 1: throwing just armies of analytics people at this stuff, and

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Speaker 1: and people that can come from every angle of understanding

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Speaker 1: all of that. Then in the projections and models and whatever,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, they they added Trey La Bounty, right, they

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Speaker 1: got to now in the analytics department, that's part of it, right,

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Speaker 1: Like one one or two people working with your scouting

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Speaker 1: department when you already don't have you know, all the

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Speaker 1: area scouts and everything else that that other people do

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Speaker 1: is gonna draw attention. More people are investing in that stuff.

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Speaker 1: That is part of the evolution of the league. Does

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Speaker 1: that mean you can't still go down there and hit

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Speaker 1: on a Marius Mims No, obviously, yeah, or or whatever,

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Speaker 1: or hit on draft picks that that do or don't

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Speaker 1: hit like it doesn't. It doesn't mean anything. It's just

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Speaker 1: it's just why not have those advantages? Why why not

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Speaker 1: have that information as well? I understand that. And you

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Speaker 1: can't say that things are gonna work that the way

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Speaker 1: they did four and five years ago. The league changes

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Speaker 1: too fast. It's just the league changes too fast. There's

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Speaker 1: too many advantages that team staying ahead of that trend

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Speaker 1: and gain every year to dismiss it as well, we'll

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Speaker 1: just do it the same as we did four or

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Speaker 1: five years ago.

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Speaker 2: Do you believe if Duke Tobin had complete and total

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Speaker 2: carte blanche that he would keep the scouting staff size

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Speaker 2: what it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if I don't think it's a thing where he can't.

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Speaker 2: So if he decided I want to hire four new

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Speaker 2: people in scouting and analytics and in player personnel, you

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Speaker 2: believe that he would have the ability to say to Mike,

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Speaker 2: I want to hire four folks.

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Speaker 1: I think so, I do I think that he could

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Speaker 1: have that. I think I have never once. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they have added across whether it's coaching staff or even

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Speaker 1: in the scouting staff. Over the course of the time

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Speaker 1: that I've been talking to Duke, you know, decade and

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Speaker 1: a half now, they have added. They have increased sizes

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Speaker 1: of things, They've done things differently. He's gotten that, and

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Speaker 1: every step of the way has said the same thing

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Speaker 1: to me, like this is the size, like I don't

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Speaker 1: want it to be much more. I like the small

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Speaker 1: nature of it. I like the collaborative nature of it.

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Speaker 1: This is like his message that he put out there

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Speaker 1: last Friday is very similar to probably the first time

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Speaker 1: I asked him thirteen years ago. Honestly, I mean, it

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Speaker 1: hasn't really changed a whole lot. And so I do

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Speaker 1: think that if they felt like that would help them

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Speaker 1: win having those people, that they would do it. I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's a thing where there's no you can't

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Speaker 1: have any more people here, there's not money for that.

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Speaker 1: I really do not think that is the case. I

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Speaker 1: think this is largely the preferred nature of it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know a lot about prediction markets, but if

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Speaker 2: I did, I would try to see if I could

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Speaker 2: find Bengals to take pass Russia in round one. Right, Yeah, Now,

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Speaker 2: pass rushier doesn't have to mean edge. No, we've talked

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Speaker 2: about this. One of their grave mistake has been, you know,

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Speaker 2: getting three techniques who were not pass rushers, you know,

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Speaker 2: good run stoppers. So if I go on Calshie or

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Speaker 2: one of these prediction markets, be Calshy guy. No, I

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Speaker 2: don't really understand how that works. I have a hard

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Speaker 2: enough time tracking my bets on FanDuel. Yeah, but could

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Speaker 2: I do you think I could could find this market

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Speaker 2: where I make a wager predicting that the Bengals take

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Speaker 2: pass Rusher in round one based on the Duke Tobin

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Speaker 2: mega press conference.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that was the point of the things

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Speaker 1: that came out of it in terms of a real,

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Speaker 1: real answers. It was that this is gonna be the folkus.

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Speaker 2: If you wanted transparency in any part of that press conference,

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Speaker 2: there it was.

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Speaker 1: That was it. It was. It was Wait, now there's

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Speaker 1: probably some frustration in that that's exactly what we were

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Speaker 1: saying last year, and it was a run stuffing nose

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Speaker 1: tackle in bj Hill, right, everybody knew you needed pass

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Speaker 1: rush and there was no especially from the interior, right,

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Speaker 1: and it was like no, it was the message was

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Speaker 1: if we stop the run better, we'll have more opportunities

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Speaker 1: to run the past. Or was the messaging this year?

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Speaker 1: Now it's a pass rush is king and got to

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Speaker 1: have it. So yeah, and there's only so many places

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Speaker 1: you can get that, like you're gonna have a hard

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Speaker 1: You can get edges in free agency, like you can,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna cost you. You can't get elite three techniques

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Speaker 1: without paying out the notes. And there's really not gonna

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Speaker 1: be any So whether you're talking about looking to the

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Speaker 1: draft for that, that certainly seems the most likely that

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Speaker 1: somebody up there is in and a draft that will

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Speaker 1: have that. And then Caleb Downs as well is gonna

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Speaker 1: be in that conversation obviously just by the nature of

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Speaker 1: how good he has been. And then we'll have premium

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Speaker 1: position conversations that everybody loves. But yeah, it's clearly pass

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Speaker 1: rush as the focus of I would think for agency

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Speaker 1: and the draft in some capacity. All Right, we do

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Speaker 1: have to talk.

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Speaker 2: I have a couple of questions about next year's Duke

433
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 2: Tobin Mega press conference.

434
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 1: Uh.

435
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 2: And then we have to get to your list of

436
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 2: free agencies. And I'll try to replicate the sound that

437
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 2: I made. Okay, when I read one of the capsules

438
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 2: about the the guys who are due to leave the

439
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 2: Bengals if they don't resign them.

440
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: I have a feeling that just knowing your history here,

441
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,400
Speaker 1: you know where this is going right to one person immediately.

442
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, So before I printed it, I hit control F

443
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 2: and I typed in two words, Geno Stone.

444
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, got right to it.

445
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 2: I read the rest, but yes, I you should have

446
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 2: just started with him. The picture here should not be

447
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,639
Speaker 2: of Trey Hendricks. I don't care about him, Gino Stone.

448
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 2: We'll get to that when we come back. It's twenty

449
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 2: eight away from four o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty,

450
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,640
Speaker 2: Cincinnati Sports Station. It's at twenty three from four o'clock.

451
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 2: This is ESPN fifteen thirty Moeger with Paul Danner Junior

452
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 2: from the Athletic dot Com and the Growler Podcast. If

453
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: you missed it, Mike Tomlin steps down his head coach

454
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 2: of the Pittsburgh Steelers after nineteen seasons. Of course, in

455
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 2: those nineteen seasons, the losses never outweighed the wins. Congratulations

456
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 2: to him. The Houston Texans points dramatically outweighed Pittsburgh's last night,

457
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,360
Speaker 2: thirty to six, which means Marvin Lewis got to mention

458
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 2: on TV last night seven straight playoff losses.

459
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you gotta feel like Marvin went

460
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 1: to the wine cellar and found an extra nice bottle

461
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: last night to celebrate not being the sole owner of

462
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: the seven straight playoff losses you had to have had

463
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: to have. That's got to feel good. Although the flip

464
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 1: side is people are gonna bring up the fact that

465
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: you also had seven straight playoff losses, where that people

466
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: had kind of probably forgotten that for a while. Now

467
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,200
Speaker 1: I haven't forgotten. I haven't. Manye, those watching the broadcast

468
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: probably had, but I know you had.

469
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 2: Next year's Duke Tobin mega press conference events. Will he

470
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 2: continue to mention Joe Flacco?

471
00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,959
Speaker 1: Sure? Specially he's back, you know.

472
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 4: So.

473
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 2: A former athletics director at U See once gave me

474
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 2: an authentic throwback basketball jersey, which I thought was really

475
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 2: nice and I was deeply appreciative, and I sent him

476
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 2: a handwritten thank you note and then when I framed

477
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 2: it and hung it in my basement, I took a

478
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 2: picture of it and sent it to him. Made just

479
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 2: a point of expressing my gratitude. For the next two

480
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: and a half years, every time I saw this guy,

481
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 2: he would bring up the jersey that he gave me.

482
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 2: How's that jersey I gave you? It's awesome, looks great

483
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 2: at my wall. Hey, remember when I gave you that jersey?

484
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 2: Is this how Duke Tobin's gonna treat Joe Flacco? Or

485
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 2: three four years down the road, assuming he's in his

486
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: current capacity, he's going to remind us, oh'd you like

487
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 2: that Joe Flacco game against the Steelers?

488
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: Remember when I traded for him? Is this going to

489
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: be the new thing? Well? Sure, every time we ever met.

490
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 2: By the way, it was Mike Boone, I'm stunned.

491
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: I'm stunned. Stunned. No, uh yeah, because anytime we talk

492
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: about the trade deadline again, m m you.

493
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: Know he remember, didn't even wait to the deadline last

494
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 2: year and.

495
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: Say we don't make deals in season anymore. That traded

496
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: for Joe Flacco. Anytime we talk about quarterback injuries, I'm

497
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,719
Speaker 1: sure we'll never have to talk about quarterback injuries anymore? Uh? Anytime?

498
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: You know, we we talk about willingness to part ways

499
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: with draft picks at some point do business with a division,

500
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: the division rival to the can't remember that? And next

501
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: time they play Pittsburgh remember last time? Yeah, it's gonna

502
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: be There's there's there, it is, It's right there.

503
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 2: I mean he showed up with that notepad. Did he

504
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:41,479
Speaker 2: just write Flacco on it?

505
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: I would like actually to see what was exactly on that.

506
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 1: I don't feel like something that just said Flacco with

507
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 1: a little heart next to it or something or a star.

508
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 2: Here's what the press conference needs next year. You need

509
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 2: that lady who covers the Jacksonville Jaguars, Lynn Jones, to

510
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 2: just go in there and remind you that he's doing

511
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 2: a great job.

512
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

513
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 2: Are you really a sports writer if you haven't weighed

514
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 2: in on that situation in Jacksonville?

515
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,719
Speaker 1: Yes, because I consider myself a sports writer, and I refuse, Okay,

516
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: I'm just not. I'm just because to me, I, in

517
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: my opinion, the proper response is to not have an

518
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: opinion on it, because here's the thing, something weird can

519
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: happen in a press conference. And also to roll my

520
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: eyes and we'll move on, Like I don't do I

521
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 1: agree that that should be happening in a press conference. No,

522
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: but not to the point like whatever, something stupid happened,

523
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: and you move on and go about your day. It's

524
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: not something that needs to be the end of the world.

525
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,239
Speaker 1: It's not an epidemic happening in press conferences across our

526
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: great country right where every single press conference has some

527
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: very nice lady telling somebody how great they are. That's

528
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: not happening if this was becoming an issue in like

529
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: press conferences everywhere are bogged down by empathetic, nice women,

530
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: Like what are we talking about? Like, it's just a

531
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: weird thing that happened in a press conference. Weird things happened,

532
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: altil Yeah, so okay, you move. It doesn't have to

533
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: be a statement on the end of journalism as we

534
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 1: know it in and like this just can't Like, I mean,

535
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: what are we doing? I just I don't understand why

536
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,640
Speaker 1: it has to be such a thing. And I guess

537
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,239
Speaker 1: now I just broke my own rule by having an

538
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: opinion on it.

539
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 2: You know, if you remember, for about three days the

540
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 2: Reds were gonna hire ron Oaster as the manager, and

541
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 2: we had somebody here who wanted me, as like a

542
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 2: twenty year old producer to dress up as the Oaster

543
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,479
Speaker 2: Bundy and go to the press conference and pass out eggs.

544
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: And I, even at that young age, knew that's not

545
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 2: a good idea. So, uh, you know, I've been in

546
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 2: meetings where we have kicked around the idea of defying

547
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 2: the sanctity of the press conference. Fortunately, great journalism mine

548
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 2: like me stepped up and said, no, would you like.

549
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: To talk about the sanctity of a press conference to

550
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: somebody who watched a little person come in and ask

551
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 1: questions to more? That's right? When he called Johnny Manzila midget. Yes, yeah,

552
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: and he showed up the next day and sat front

553
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: and center.

554
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 4: Sanctity. Look, it's open man. Yeah, do with this space

555
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 4: what you would like? Andy Reid when he starts his

556
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 4: press conference, has time's yours?

557
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: Right?

558
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

559
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: Do with it what you'd like? Yeah, do with it?

560
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: What you'd like is my page. I do have a question.

561
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,719
Speaker 2: One of my favorite things about any sports press conferences,

562
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 2: in any moment of levity, it feels like there's an

563
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 2: obligation to laugh more extremely than the moment allows.

564
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: I think we got that on Friday. Uh yeah, who

565
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,239
Speaker 1: by us laughing or him?

566
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,239
Speaker 2: So Duke made a reference to Kelsey's question and he said, oh,

567
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: you don't want to come to Mobile. And then there

568
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: was you know, I thought it was a lighthearted moment.

569
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: There was a falling in that room, and I so

570
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 2: here's my question, Like, in that moment, that's it's not tense,

571
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 2: but it's it's a guy talking about the team that failed.

572
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: It's his responsibility. It's it's not going to be uh,

573
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 2: you know, a comedy routine. He's not gonna do stand up.

574
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 2: But in a moment like that where there's just a

575
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: little tiny unease, is there sort of an unwritten rule

576
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: that you're supposed to laugh louder than the moment actually allows,

577
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 2: as if the joke is funnier than it really is,

578
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: just to break the tension.

579
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, we call it weakscribe laughter. Okay, where it's like,

580
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: you know, we admit that we're weak. We're just trying

581
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: to keep it. We're just trying to like play along here. Okay.

582
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: I don't know about extra, but there is also a

583
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: need to have like some sort of other emotion other than,

584
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: like you said, a little bit of tension that existing

585
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: in that room, so that anything that resembles comedy, even

586
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: in the like faintest of terms, feels funnier in that

587
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: room than it actually is, just by the nature of

588
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: everyone kind of wishing that they were in a place

589
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 1: where laughter was accepted.

590
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 2: It reminded me of being in court for my divorce

591
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: when the just said something that was not that funny,

592
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 2: but it lightened the tension a little bit, and all

593
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 2: parties in the room decided that we were watching Mitch

594
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 2: Hedberg at his prime.

595
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, in fairness, In fairness, I probably laughed loudest at

596
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: the Mobile because I am happiest to not be going

597
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: to Mobile anymore.

598
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: I don't blame you one more thing about the press conference.

599
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: You folks who cover the team and do a great job,

600
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: and the Bengals beat core is collectively awesome. And I

601
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 2: said this to you on your podcast, and I'll reiterate

602
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: it today. As a fan, I wish that setting would

603
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 2: have been limited to you guys. I get that that's

604
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 2: not realistic. How do you guys feel when the folks

605
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 2: who typically aren't there or typically don't cover sports come

606
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: in and they've got questions When there's a finite amount

607
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: of time and you don't know when your next opportunity

608
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 2: for a Duke Tobin availability like that is going to be.

609
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't love it because, like I said earlier,

610
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: it's not the best way to talk to Duke or

611
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: have a conversation with him to get real answers. But

612
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's there, it's open. I would

613
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: love I would love for there to be a qualifying

614
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: circuin number like you have to have been at seventy

615
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: five percent of Zach Taylor Wednesday press conferences. There's something

616
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: to be to earn admission to the Duke Turbine end

617
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: of year deal, right or something like that. I would be,

618
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: I would be I would support something like that where

619
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: people that have been there all year and and but

620
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: everyone has a right to be there. I like, I

621
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: have always liked the Duke Tobin side sessions at the

622
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: Combine probably of anything we do with him all year.

623
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: And in fairness, you know, I you know, take shots

624
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: at mobile right, pretty good? Yeah, like for us for me,

625
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 1: now not for everyone else, I understand, because not everyone's

626
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: going to go down there. There's no TV element, it's

627
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: very unorganized, there's not a lot of structure, but you

628
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: know you're getting it's if you're willing to go there,

629
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: it can be worth it. I like when we go

630
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: to Indianapolis and we're able to it usually is just

631
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: the beat group that goes. It's away from the podium

632
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: that most people see much more much more conversational and

633
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: we know, you know there's a lot you're closer to

634
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: things about to happen in March. So I I've always

635
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: liked that as my favorite of all the availabilities during

636
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: the year. Mock Turtle Soup's a little crazy and it's

637
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: more focused on the season and other stuff. There's the

638
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: whole road MIC's going that day. That's always been my

639
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: my the best environment in my opinion, And so yeah,

640
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: I mean that's but the it's whatever they want it

641
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: to be. Like I'm happy that they're doing it there

642
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: because it didn't it needed to be put into that space.

643
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: It needs to be in the lights. Like that's that's

644
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: important that that moment exists.

645
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 2: You broke down as you do every year, the pending

646
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: free agents, who stays, who goes, and you kind of

647
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 2: encapsulate each guy with where things stand, what they've accomplished,

648
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 2: and then you put a percentage on their chances of returning.

649
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 2: I want folks to read the piece, but I highlighted

650
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 2: here Gino Stone chance of return fifteen percent. Yeah, this

651
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 2: is fifteen percent higher than it should be. Years ago,

652
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: when the radio station was in Mount Adams, you know,

653
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: we would share a building with a parking garage and

654
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: people would park in that garage to go to the bars.

655
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 2: And one night I had to go as a young

656
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 2: kid to run extra innings, and so I went to

657
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,800
Speaker 2: UDF to get something to eat, got a hot fudge Sunday,

658
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: and I'm getting on the elevator on a Friday or

659
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 2: Saturday night, and there's a couple on the elevator engaged

660
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: in amorous behavior. Oh and as the elevator door swings open,

661
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: there are these two people in various degrees of undress.

662
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 2: And I made a sound that was exactly the sound

663
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 2: that I made when I saw fifteen percent chance that

664
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 2: Geno Stone is gonna come back. I would try to

665
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 2: make the sound for you, but I am coming off

666
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: having a cold, and my voice is a little scratchy,

667
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 2: but it was high pitched, it was sudden, and it

668
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 2: was disconcerting.

669
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure you were going with that. That's the

670
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: exact sound that I made.

671
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 2: I went to it. I hit all f read to

672
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 2: think about Gino. You were you were generous in assessing

673
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: his play chance of return fifteen percent.

674
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: Yes, because I've not gonna rule him out as a backup.

675
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: Like to me, if backups play too well, not if

676
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:53,919
Speaker 1: they're behind genostone. But it's to me, it's I think

677
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: that's what he is. Yeah, I think he's a backup

678
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: safety in the NFL, CFLs I there's a fifteen is

679
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: a not a big number. Okay. It's just if you

680
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: get to a position where they sign a safety and

681
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: they're like, well we need a backup, and he's out

682
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: there and he's basically signed for the league minimum, and

683
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: he knows the system and can be in the reserve role,

684
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: then it's not impossible. I'm not gonna rule that scenario out.

685
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 1: If this was the starting number, it would be like

686
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: one percent or whatever, you know, I would. I do

687
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: not see a world where they're running back Gino's stone

688
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: is the starter. Of course. Last year, I didn't see

689
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: a world where they said we believe in you and

690
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: then gave him a pay cut and kept him out

691
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: there all year, right, even though the play was poor. Yes,

692
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: that said, I don't you know, I don't see that snarre.

693
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 1: The one is if there's a backup role, then there's

694
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: a backup role. This cup of water that I'm holding.

695
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 2: If I said take a drink and there's a fifteen

696
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 2: percent chance you will die, would you take a drink?

697
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: No, you would go fifteen percent. That's a pretty good

698
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: chance I'm gonna die.

699
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 2: Tell I feel about Genostone, Dalton Riisner seventy five percent?

700
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: Why is it that low? It's the Bengals, it's guard,

701
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 1: it's you know, Dalton has how much of a pay

702
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: raise would he would he get? He's a good question, James,

703
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: James Repene and I have had some passionate debates about this.

704
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think. I mean, this is a

705
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: guy that's never made more than three He's a veteran

706
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: in his career. He's basically made the league minimum, you know,

707
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: this past year. But waited all the way to the

708
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: end hoping there would be a market for him. At

709
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: some point there wasn't. He signed up for one and change,

710
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: so did what he was good and he he they

711
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: found a role and everyone's vouching for him. But was

712
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 1: he league minimum to five million per year better than

713
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,919
Speaker 1: he has been his entire career. I don't know. It's

714
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: probably in the middle there somewhere. There's probably a version

715
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: of a two years eight with some sort of something

716
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: that everybody feels like they're happy that where you land

717
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 1: in this, But I don't know that there's a history

718
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: of him holding out and and you know, holding out

719
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: in the terms of not signing immediately last year, like

720
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: last year and years before that.

721
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 2: That wasn't the first time that, but he has said

722
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: that's what he doesn't want to do, doesn't want to do,

723
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 2: and but the Bengals have to get that done. So

724
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 2: I I, you know, seventy five percent is still on

725
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 2: the high side. But there's the twenty five percent of

726
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 2: guard re Reisner's history ambiguity. I think that goes into this.

727
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 2: I think everyone would like to get it done.

728
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: But I don't know. Fre agency is weird man stuff.

729
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: Weird stuff happened. This does feel like as you have

730
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 1: put it, this does feel like the layup. Do you

731
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: still have the hoop and the ball? I do, yeah, okay,

732
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: I do like that. I still feel it's like that

733
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: but I so, in.

734
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 2: All seriousness, what I do with some of these is

735
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: I try to I try to guess what value you're

736
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 2: going to put, what percentage you're going to put.

737
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 1: I nailed it with Joe Flacco.

738
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, thirty three. I didn't nail it with any of

739
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:51,720
Speaker 2: these other guys.

740
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. I thought Reisner would be higher. I thought, Ohsai

741
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: would be a little higher. I think I put it

742
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: at thirty. Yeah.

743
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 2: Uh, you're obviously operating with a lot more back on

744
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 2: knowledge to me. But I nailed it with Joe Flacco.

745
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think it is. I mean, Duke Tobin

746
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: mentioned eight times and then there and they would love

747
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,399
Speaker 1: to have him, right, but it's just not in their

748
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: court because they have they can't offer the one thing

749
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: he wants, and that's to play. Somebody might offer him

750
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: the ability to play, and he's going to choose that

751
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: place over this one more than likely because he wants

752
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 1: to play and no one would blame him. And but

753
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: I definitely think there's whatever scenario exists of if he,

754
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: you know, doesn't want to sign up to be a backup,

755
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: but is in a starter somewhere that he can just

756
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,879
Speaker 1: hang out, especially after he did what he did this year.

757
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: Why do you need to get in I mean, maybe

758
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 1: he just wants to be around the guys or whatever,

759
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: but he doesn't need to do that. So it's I'm

760
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,879
Speaker 1: really curious to see how that plays itself out and

761
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: how necessary Joe feels like it is to have his

762
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: team set in the summer, how necessary the Bengals feel

763
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: like it is knowing Blacko could get picked up by

764
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: any team in the league at any point if you

765
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: isn't under contract with them, to then fill that with

766
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: somebody else, whether it be a Tyrod Taylor or any

767
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: number of traditional backups that you would hear thrown around there, right,

768
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: So what is that? What does that look like? I

769
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: don't know. That's an interesting little puzzle for them to

770
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: figure out. I'm sure in a perfect world they would say,

771
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: Joe Flacco, we will sign you for one year's one

772
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: year and five million dollars and you can be our

773
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,439
Speaker 1: backup and mark that down today. I'm sure they would

774
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: be happy to do that. I just don't think Joe's

775
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 1: going to do that. When does the mock off season exercise?

776
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: Hand deep in the sheets right now, trying to go

777
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:50,479
Speaker 1: through it. Yeah, it's very tedious every position, trying there's

778
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 1: not a lot of you know, there's not even a

779
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: lot of markets out there for what the free agents

780
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: to be are going to be. So I'm trying to

781
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 1: figure out what values are going to be on every

782
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: guy and remember how the Google doc works, and I'm

783
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: in that part. It's always it's the it's the darkest

784
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: before the dawn. I'm at that part where I'm like,

785
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna make it. Every year I reach a

786
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: point in the mock off season sheet where I say

787
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: I'm just never gonna get it done. But it is

788
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: supposed to be out next week. Well I feel like that.

789
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 1: I feel like it's I'm hoping it's gonna happen, but

790
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: I'm in a dark place with it right now.

791
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 2: What I remember about last year's exercise is my glee

792
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,919
Speaker 2: and cutting ginostone, so I get to replicate that this year.

793
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 2: But also I I I bang my fist on the

794
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 2: table for Milton Williams, Yeah, who I watched single handedly

795
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 2: wreck the LA Chargers.

796
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. A takeaway of the weekend for me was look

797
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 1: at all of these great defense and tell me what's

798
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 1: one thing they have in common? Just game wrecking defensive tackles. Yeah,

799
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: across all of these games, you know what I mean,

800
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: just changing everything.

801
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 2: But I might have a ceremony when I cut Genostone.

802
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: There's no cut. Well, there's when you ceremoniously pick a

803
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:58,560
Speaker 1: different safety.

804
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, literally any human being alive. Gina Stone is

805
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 2: probably an awesome guy, and here I am just destroying

806
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 2: the dude.

807
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not fair yet he's he's nice enough.

808
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 2: He I'm sure he's a wonderful man, but it's not

809
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 2: about that whole boy. No, Well, thank you as always great.

810
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: Make sure you catch the Growler podcast and read Paul's

811
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 2: work at the Athletic dot com. Follow him at Paul

812
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 2: Danner Junior. And we'll talk to you next week.

813
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: I look forward to hopefully you'll be healthy enough next

814
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: week and you can make the sound. Yeah, I want to.

815
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 1: I want to hear what it is.

816
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 2: I'll see what I can do. Yeah, but by then

817
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 2: my throats at like eighty five percent. Yeah, but yeah,

818
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 2: very good. It is four minutes away from four. We're

819
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 2: gonna give away Reds Fest tickets next hour. If you

820
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 2: know your Red's off season acquisition so you don't have

821
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 2: to do a ton of boning up. This is ESPN

822
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 2: fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station,