1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Dray on WBZ, Boston's news radio. 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 2: Well, it was a busy day here in Massachusetts in 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 2: terms of transportation issues. We're going to focus at the 4 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 2: beginning of this hour on the big Massachusetts Highway Masspike 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 2: service plaza deal with US. Is the president and CEO 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 2: of Global Partners, Eric Slipcup. Eric, welcome back to Nightside. 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: Global Partners was the runner up in this bid process, 8 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: and you folks had lots of concerns about it, and 9 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 2: you went to court and finally, finally Applegreen, the company 10 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 2: from Ireland which was awarded this humongous thirty five year 11 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: contract to to refurbish eleven plazas on the Turnpike as 12 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 2: well as about seven other highway plazas around the com 13 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 2: Wealth of Massachusetts, some of which you are are involved 14 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 2: with currently. Apple Green decided after they won the contract 15 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 2: to to withdraw and here we are a few months 16 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 2: later with some deadline, some hard deadlines looking at us 17 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 2: and the Comwealth of Massachusetts has decided or the Transportation 18 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: Department has decided to go back to square one and 19 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 2: and put the bid out uh and and you'll compete 20 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 2: for it, and there'll be some others, and you don't 21 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 2: seem all that upset with the fact that you were 22 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 2: not as I thought you should have been awarded as 23 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: the runner up the bid the contract or an option 24 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 2: to negotiate the contract once Apple Green withdrew. You seem 25 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 2: to be quite magnanimous here under this under the circumstances, 26 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: it's been a long and strange road that you've have 27 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: walked or ridden the last few months. 28 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 3: First of all, I just want to say thank you 29 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 3: for taking an interest in this story very early on. 30 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 2: Thank you. 31 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 3: You know you really you really help bring attention to it, 32 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 3: and for that I am forever grateful, and so should 33 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 3: all the taxpayers in the state of Massachusetts be happy 34 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 3: they have someone like you who's willing to be diligent 35 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 3: and try to get at what the truth is and 36 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 3: do what's right for the state. 37 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're very kind to say that. I appreciate it. 38 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: I just looked at the facts of the situation and 39 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 2: it cried out that there was something amiss because the 40 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: contract that you proposed, the offer that you made, and 41 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: if you want to mention it right now, returned the 42 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 2: heck of a lot more money to the state than 43 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: the applegreen offer. They contended that they were putting more 44 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: money in upfront, But either way, I think you, as 45 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 2: the home team, clearly should have won that contract. I 46 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 2: don't honestly understand why they re bidding it now, to 47 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: be honest with you, but my understanding is that you've 48 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 2: you've been pretty magnanimous in you're You've got to go 49 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: through this process again, which is obviously costly to everybody, 50 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 2: and it also means that maybe the service pasors will 51 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: not be fixed as quickly as they should be. 52 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, and and and you know the contract, the current 53 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 3: contract ends at the end of December. I think that 54 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 3: current tenants were in process and figuring out what to do, 55 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 3: and so I'm not sure that that is what's best. 56 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 3: But I can tell you that we will stand tall. 57 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 3: We're currently running the fuel and the and the convenience 58 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 3: markets at the locations, and we'll still tall, and we 59 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 3: know that we can perform day in day out, and 60 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 3: we are there. You know. One of the things is, 61 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 3: you know, mass Dot basically we said themselves in their 62 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 3: own presentation yesterday yesterday that the procurement process was unusual 63 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 3: for them. You know, we helped to bring that to light, 64 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 3: and it clearly resonated with others you too, including you, 65 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 3: but there's also Senator my Tigney and many others who 66 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 3: have since called for oversight, you know, Apple Green's abrupt 67 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 3: withdrawal and the Secretary's sudden resignation. This process has definitely 68 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 3: raised serious questions and there are a lot of eyes 69 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 3: on it. For mass DOT, the cleanest way to restore 70 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 3: credibility and transparency was to start fresh, and we respect that. 71 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 3: Would we have liked to have been awarded the contract, 72 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 3: of course, you know, it would have been great, and 73 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 3: we thought we and we feel like, you know, we 74 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,799 Speaker 3: offered the best value to the state. But we believe 75 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 3: the new process, you know, is the right path forward. 76 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 3: We look forward to participating in the rebid and helping 77 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 3: deliver the modern, locally driven plausa's Massachusetts travelers and taxpayers deserve. 78 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you this. The one thing that at 79 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 2: the end of this day that I'm encouraged by, and 80 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: I suspect you probably are as well. I think that 81 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 2: the interim Transportation Secretary, Phil Ang, who's now also the 82 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 2: general manager of the MBTA, my sense is he's a 83 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 2: straight shooter, and I know that John Gulliver, who I've 84 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: dealt with on many occasions. The mass Highway Administrator, Jonathan 85 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 2: Gulliver is somebody who is going to be an absolute 86 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: straight shooter on this. I have no clue as to 87 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: how much the retired or the resigned Mass Secretary Monica 88 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: Tibbet's not has, but she has been a whirlwind of 89 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: controversy from the day that she was appointed by Governor Healy. 90 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: And I have a lot more confidence that with Phil 91 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 2: Ang and Jonathan Gulliver that this situation will be resolved fairly. 92 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 2: And I don't know if you share that that that 93 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: that confidence, but I just want you to know that 94 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: from from where I'm sitting as somebody who's watched Massachusetts 95 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 2: politics for many, many years, I think it's going to 96 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 2: be a cleaner and and hopefully a more efficient process 97 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 2: with Phil Ang and Jonathan Gulliver at the hell And that's. 98 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 3: My Yeah, we don't we don't have any history with 99 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 3: whether either of those folks, But hearing you say that 100 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,239 Speaker 3: that holds that holds some sway and is important because 101 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 3: you know, you've been involved in sort of these processes 102 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 3: over the years, and so that's great to hear that 103 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 3: that you really support these folks because you think they've 104 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 3: got a good track record. So for me, that's music 105 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 3: to my ears. 106 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 2: Well, Eric, thank you very much for saying that. And 107 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,239 Speaker 2: I'm going to be talking with John Cesto, who also 108 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 2: has followed this and has done a great job on this. 109 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 2: He really is has drilled down on a lot of this. 110 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 2: I want you to know I'm rooting for you. I 111 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 2: think you're the home team. You're a fortune five hundred company. 112 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 2: How many people do you employ here in Massachusetts these days? 113 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 3: Seventeen hundred in Massachusetts and we have our main office 114 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 3: here with about another eight hundred and fifty employees. So 115 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 3: we pay about one hundred and twenty five million in taxes. 116 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 3: And we have fifty four terminals throughout the country. That 117 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 3: means you buy ships and barges, and we have terminals 118 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 3: in Massachusetts really throughout New England as well, and those 119 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 3: can actually supply these service plazas as well. Right, And 120 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 3: so we think we're uniquely positioned to deliver not only 121 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 3: hospitality and a great offering, whether that's through O or 122 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 3: All Town Fresh, which is made to order sandwiches and food, 123 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 3: or or whether it's just a healthy snack that's on 124 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 3: the go for your kids as you're you know, running 125 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 3: off to soccer practice or off to some school event. 126 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well again, as I say, I'm rooting for you, 127 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 2: and particularly I reviewed what you had proposed. It's made 128 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: a lot of sense to me. I'm not an expert 129 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: in the area, but i also know the the integrity 130 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 2: of Global Partners is above approach. So I just I'm 131 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 2: rooting for you and I will continue to follow this 132 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 2: and hopefully we'll have another conversation which will be a 133 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 2: celebration that that the contract has been awarded to Global Partners. 134 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 3: Thanks so much, Eric, anytime, Dan, that would be great. 135 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: Sounds great. Well, we'll look forward to that day and 136 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: hopefully it'll be sooner than later. Thanks again, Thanks so much, Eric, 137 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: best of luck. 138 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 3: You've got it. Thank you, Bye bye bye. 139 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 2: All right, we get back and to be talking with 140 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 2: John Chester of the Boston Globe, and if you would 141 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: like to join the conversation, we'll be taking some phone calls. 142 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 2: This is a This is not an easy subject to understand, 143 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 2: but I think many of you do, and I feel 144 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 2: free to to join the conversation. The Heally administration has 145 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: been rocked by this. This is one that has opened up. 146 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 2: I think some fissiers in the in the Heally administration 147 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 2: and the resignation coming today by the Transportation secretary, who, 148 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 2: by the way, came in from Ohio. And I don't 149 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 2: want to sound like a total homer, but look, in 150 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: Massachusetts we do have I think the best and brightest 151 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 2: uh And I think that that any governor should look 152 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 2: first and foremost to Massachusetts talent, whether that is again 153 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 2: a company like Global Partners that can do the job, 154 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 2: or people who probably could have been a more certainly 155 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 2: a weare and cognizant of how things have gone in Massachusetts. 156 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 2: This secretary, not if it was or less, named Monica 157 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 2: Tibbet's nut. She was talking from the get go about 158 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: taxing everything, well not quite everything, just two things, everything 159 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 2: that moved and everything that didn't move. Back with John Chester, 160 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: the Boston GLOBEESO, who's going to be filling a little 161 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: bit of the background on this story so you will 162 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 2: be totally up to date. Coming back on Nightside right 163 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 2: after this break. If you want to join the conversation, 164 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: we'll start it at shortly six one, seven, two, five, four, 165 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 2: ten thirty will get you in six one, seven, nine, three, one, 166 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 2: ten thirty Will as well. 167 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on BZY, Boston's 168 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: news radio. 169 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 2: Really looking forward to chatting with John Chesto of the 170 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: Boston Globe, extraordinary business reporter. He has been on this 171 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: story from the get go, the headline today in Today's 172 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 2: Boston Globe. But d one above, you know above the 173 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 2: full masterot to put Plaza contract back out to bid. Boy, 174 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 2: this sames. This sounds to me like we've seen this 175 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: movie before. John Oh, I guess this was the decision 176 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 2: they had to make. But this thing's not going to 177 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 2: get done on time as a consequence of the time 178 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 2: that has been lost in this first flawed bid process. 179 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 2: Good evening, welcome. 180 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 4: You know, I think most people that I've talked to 181 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 4: over the last month about this, ever since Applegreen pulled 182 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 4: out of the deal, but basically saying it's going to 183 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 4: be hard for her to pick Global because Global has 184 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 4: been beating up on when I say her, the Healey administration, 185 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 4: it's hard for the Healey administrations to go with Global 186 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 4: because Global's beating up on the Healey administration all summer long, 187 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 4: and it just you know, sends the wrong message if 188 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 4: you kind of give in after that. Yeah, Global has 189 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 4: a lot of good points. But but you know, usually 190 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 4: when someone feels they've been wronged, they they do, you know, 191 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 4: they'll file a lawsuit and say, you know, there was 192 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 4: something wrong with this bid process. But Global, as you know, 193 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 4: went a few steps further and really went on a 194 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 4: public campaign against the Healey administration over this. 195 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 2: But I also think that sometimes if you file in court, 196 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 2: you know, within the Superior Court, you're dealing with judges 197 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 2: who have been appointed by governors and the sort of 198 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 2: you now you're playing an away game. But when you 199 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 2: go out into the court of public opinion, as they 200 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 2: did with you, you know, as really the lead person 201 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 2: in the Globe on this and the lead person of 202 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 2: the story, I got interested in the story because because 203 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: I read your stuff in the Globe and I thought, 204 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 2: to myself, this doesn't quite add up here. I think 205 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 2: that the Global partners taking it into the court of 206 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 2: public opinion was a smart thing to do, and I 207 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 2: think it would have been smarter for the Healthy administration 208 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 2: to turn around and say, you know what, maybe there 209 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: was a flar in the process. But we have two 210 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 2: We had two really qualified finalists. One is withdrawn and 211 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 2: Global Partners gets the contract, and I think that would 212 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: have quieted the this this storm. But you know what 213 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 2: happens if they go through this again and Global Partners 214 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 2: finishes either out of the running or finishes number two. 215 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 2: What do you think's gonna happen? 216 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, I have some deja vu. 217 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 2: I've seen this movie before. 218 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 4: Me know, it's worth noting to your listeners that they 219 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 4: were already against a very tough time frame. They to 220 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 4: replace the current operators McDonald's and Golf. They wanted out 221 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 4: as of January first of this year, and and and 222 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 4: so mass the mass that board felt like they had 223 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 4: to They couldn't really question the process. They got the 224 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 4: recommendation from the staff in June to go with Applegreen 225 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 4: over Global Partners. And they really had to go because 226 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 4: you had six months to get ready for a massive 227 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 4: construction project and which half of the service plaza buildings 228 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 4: would be really placed entirely and the other half would 229 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 4: be significantly renovated. So now they're in the tough spot 230 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 4: of having almost no negotiating cloud. They have to go 231 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 4: back to McDonald's and Golf, and with hat in hand 232 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 4: and say, oh, can you give us an extension on 233 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 4: the lease. Literally, they had not started the mass Highway. 234 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 4: Folks said to me yesterday they're going to start. Yesterday 235 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 4: is when they're going to start reaching out to them 236 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 4: to negotiate, and so there's not a lot of time 237 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 4: to do that. There are some maintenance issues that have 238 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 4: been put off and they're going to have to negotiate 239 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 4: that as part of the least extension as well. And 240 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 4: so the state's kind of over a barrel here in 241 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 4: terms of getting these projects done. So the Healy administration 242 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 4: had away the inconvenience of going back and negotiating that 243 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 4: lease versus working with a partner that the Healthy administration 244 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 4: felt was somewhat hostile to them. 245 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 2: But I don't think hostility should be the factor. The 246 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 2: factor is Global Partners is a big Massachusetts company. I 247 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 2: looked at those statistics and the contract, the proposal, theF. 248 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 4: They offered a lot more money over thirty five years 249 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 4: than that Apple Green did. That's for sure. Yeah, they 250 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 4: the I think you could argue Apple Green because it 251 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 4: already had a construction partner, Suffolk Construction could have got 252 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 4: started on the construction faster. But you know, Globals a 253 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 4: very well financed, publicly traded company. You know, they could 254 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 4: have handled the project as well. They would have had 255 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 4: to bring in a construction partner, and maybe they would 256 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 4: have gone off to a slower start because they got 257 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 4: the impression Apple Green in Suffolk where they were like 258 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 4: ready to go, and they were already you know, looking 259 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 4: scoping out what permits they need to file, et cetera, 260 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 4: which is a little further along where Global was. But 261 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 4: Global could have caught it up with that. 262 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 2: Why do you think Apple Green? John? And again I 263 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 2: assume you probably have written about this, Why do you 264 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 2: think Apple Green? They went through this entire process, They 265 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 2: responded to the RP, they won the bid, and then 266 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 2: they pulled out. That doesn't make sense. 267 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, there was so part of the issue. They won 268 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 4: the bid in June, but then they had to do negotiate. 269 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 4: They had to do specific negotiations over the leases, and 270 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 4: they were sort of you know, the crossing of the 271 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 4: t's and the dotting of the eyes. Like for example, 272 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 4: one issue that came up was do do we have 273 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 4: to keep all our restaurants open you know all the time? 274 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 4: You know, do you really want to have like a 275 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 4: do you need to have like a I don't know, 276 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 4: a chicken restaurant open at five in the morning. These 277 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 4: are the discussions that they were still sort of working on. Meanwhile, 278 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 4: Global actually sued the state. You know, first they sued 279 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 4: the state for public records, and clearly they were building 280 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 4: a legal case the process was flawed. So then once 281 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 4: they had the public records that they felt thought from 282 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 4: you know, Butcher's that case, they then amended their lawsuit 283 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 4: to say this was a flawed procurement. Now you've got 284 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 4: to remember, Apple Green is owned by Blackstone, a huge 285 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 4: private equity firm, and Blackstone has been actively involved in 286 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 4: this as well. And we don't know for sure how 287 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 4: much of the decision making was Blackstone versus Apple Green, 288 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 4: but certainly there was consultation with you know, their largest 289 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 4: financial backer. 290 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 2: My understanding is that they might break this out into 291 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 2: two contracts, this this next IRFP part to deal with 292 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 2: the construction separately, and then. 293 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,479 Speaker 4: That would be interesting. I mean I haven't heard that, 294 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 4: but it you know, it's a different skill set to 295 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 4: run the service plazas and golf is running four and 296 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 4: they call it the four Bees. The two in Bridgewater, 297 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 4: one in Barnstable, one in Beverly Golf is already running 298 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 4: for them, and Golf runs the convenience stores and the 299 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 4: gas stations on the pike on behalf of McDonald's, and 300 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 4: Sorry Global runs the four Bees and run Global is 301 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 4: already running on behalf of Golf and McDonald's the convenience 302 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,719 Speaker 4: stores and the service stations on the pike. So they 303 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 4: already have experienced running these, maybe less experience than Apple 304 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 4: Green building them, because Applegreen is rebuilt. You know, you've 305 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 4: seen them in New York, You've seen them in New Jersey. 306 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 4: Apple Green has rebuilt service plausas. So it would make 307 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 4: sense to kind of say, Okay, here's a construction project 308 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 4: versus here's an operations project. But the idea is here, 309 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 4: you do it as one because the work, you know, 310 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,400 Speaker 4: the investment, well, we'll kind of pay for itself over time. 311 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 4: You know, you're basically getting a company willing to put 312 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 4: in the investments knowing that they're going to bring in 313 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 4: more revenue versus if you to pay for the construction 314 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 4: project over time, versus paying out hiring a company to build, 315 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 4: you basically have to write a check. Essentially, this way 316 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 4: that the companies kind of write the check and take 317 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 4: the risk and get the revenue back over time. So 318 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 4: it's it's you know, you know, argument can made for 319 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 4: both approaches, but I can see the reason why the 320 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 4: state decided to put these together. 321 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 2: Well yeah, I'm just saying that under the circumstances, I'm 322 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 2: wondering if that's going to be a possible. Hey, we 323 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 2: got to take a quick break. I want to get 324 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 2: some phone calls. And I also want to ask you 325 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 2: about the coincidence of the decision being made today that 326 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 2: the new proposal would be circulated and actually they were 327 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 2: going to now according to your column, go and talk 328 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 2: to the full there were six companies that bid, four 329 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 2: of whom were eliminated initially, and then it came down 330 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 2: to Apple Green and Global Partners. And it sounds to 331 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 2: me like mass Cot is going to now invite all six, 332 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 2: including Apple Green and Global Partners and the other four 333 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 2: which were eliminated to rebid, and I guess open it 334 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 2: up to any other new bidders that might want to 335 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 2: come in, which is only going to make the thing 336 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 2: even more But I want to ask you about the 337 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 2: coincidence of Secretary nut resigning today. She was not available 338 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 2: to the best of my knowledge to anyone today, So 339 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 2: we want to talk about that as well. If that's 340 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,959 Speaker 2: okay with you. My guest is John Chesto, Boston Globe. 341 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 2: Business columnists must read in the Boston Globe. No doubt 342 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 2: we'll be back on Nightside if you like to express 343 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 2: an opinion or ask a question of John chest No 344 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 2: one knows it better than John Chestow six one, seven, two, five, 345 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: four ten thirty six one seven, nine three, one ten 346 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 2: thirty Back on Nightside right after this, It's. 347 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray, Boston's news Radio. 348 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 2: All right, let's get back John Cesto. John. The coincidence 349 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 2: of the Transportation Secretary Monica Tibbet's Nutt resigning today after 350 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 2: a couple of pretty controversial years in her position coincidence 351 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 2: or do you think it has something to do with 352 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 2: with this This whole project is now heading after a 353 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 2: false start for several months. 354 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 4: I can I find it hard to believe that it's 355 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 4: a coincidence that happening the day after MASSOT announced that 356 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 4: it was going to scrap the current tournament and start 357 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 4: fresh on the Service Plaza contract. Now, whether you know 358 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 4: how the governor, you know, sort of prodded her to 359 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 4: leave or whether she knew her time was up and 360 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 4: asked to leave and the governor said, wait until we've 361 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 4: got the decision and we've got this issue settled. I 362 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 4: can't say for sure. I do know the govern her 363 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 4: when asked today by the media, said it had nothing 364 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 4: to do with her departure. Uh, you know, the service 365 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 4: Plaza contract or the other controversies were not why she left. 366 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 4: But I mean it, you know, it's it was just 367 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 4: a day after this happened, and and notably she wasn't 368 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 4: he didn't even have a one of these lamee boiler 369 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 4: played quotes from her in the press release announcing it. So, uh, 370 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 4: it's pretty clear that the that her tenure had to end. 371 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: Uh. 372 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 4: You know, the governor's facing a very challenging re election year. 373 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 4: You know, she still polls well, but she has three 374 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 4: I would say, three strong Republican candidates vuying for that job. 375 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 4: And and believe me, there they the mascot was definitely 376 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 4: in their sights. Yeah, you know, it really was. It 377 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 4: was a political liability for now. You know, the biggest 378 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 4: is she you know, the biggest controversy I guess you 379 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 4: could say was when she spoke to a group called 380 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 4: walk Massachusetts and talked about, you know, putting tolls everywhere essentially, 381 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 4: and the quotes kind of emerged a little bit later, 382 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 4: and she was publicly chastised for it and sort of 383 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 4: sidelined on the task force that she was supposed to 384 00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 4: be running because you know, the governor really didn't like 385 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 4: the message that was being sent there. Uh but you know, 386 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 4: she just you know, it's kind of hard to replace 387 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 4: your transportation secretary after your previous transportation secretary that was 388 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 4: Genie Piandaka really wasn't there that long either, So I 389 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,239 Speaker 4: don't think it's a coincidence. I know the administration will 390 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 4: publicly say it's a coincidence. But you know, during this 391 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 4: whole service service plaza controversy, I can't tell you how 392 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 4: many people who do speak to the governor regularly would 393 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 4: say she's I cannot believe how well, like when is 394 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 4: Monica leaving? You know, So it was one of these 395 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 4: things that you know, in fact, we even had a 396 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 4: story essentially saying that posing that question before the service 397 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 4: plaza controversy blew up. So one other thing you may remember, 398 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 4: you know, there are two major infrastructure projects that that 399 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 4: were under mass Dot's purview. One the realignment of the 400 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 4: turnpike in Austin, and the other take Cod bridges, and 401 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 4: the governor brought in Lusa Polonsky to basically run those 402 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 4: two because she wasn't satisfied with how they were being handled. Uh. 403 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 4: So you know, there, there's there's definitely been some challenges 404 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 4: under Monica's tenure during her time as Transportation Secretary. That's sure. 405 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's interesting. I have the same skepticism 406 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 2: did you have. The governor today said that Monica nut 407 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 2: was moving on to the private sector, but one Nutt 408 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 2: was not available today as far as I could tell, 409 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 2: I watched the evening newscast and then didn't see any 410 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 2: comment from her. Uh, Nor did I see anything from 411 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 2: the governor beyond she was moving to the private sector 412 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 2: that covers a vast variety of opportunities. Uh. And Nutt 413 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 2: is she was She's not from Massachusetts. I hate to 414 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 2: sound parochial or like a hometown person, but I think 415 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 2: it's tough to break in here in many respects it is. 416 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 4: But I'm going to present you with a counterpoint. Sure, 417 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 4: look at look at Phil aang sill An came in 418 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 4: from New York and has done very well. He is, 419 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 4: you know, obviously he's at least, you know, temporarily taking 420 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 4: Monica's job as well as running the tea. And he's 421 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 4: well regarded by just about everyone. So but generally speaking, 422 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 4: you know, this place could eat you alive if you're 423 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 4: not careful. 424 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 2: Yeah. And by the way, you know, if if if 425 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 2: you did not if you were not skeptical of the circumstances. Obviously, 426 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 2: it was a question that I asked. I think I 427 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 2: knew what you would say if you were not skeptical. 428 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 2: I was prepared to sell you a stretch of the 429 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 2: Massachusetts Turnpike tomorrow. 430 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 4: I'll take the Charlton Plaza. 431 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 2: No no, no, not the positive, just a stretch of 432 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 2: the road. That's all. 433 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 4: I want something that can make money on. 434 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 2: No, no, no, we don't do maybe next time. Okay, 435 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 2: let's uh, okay, let let's see if we get some 436 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 2: phone calls six one seven, six seven, nine, three thirty. 437 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 2: Let me go first off to Bill in Boston. Bill, 438 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 2: thank you for your patience. You're on with John Chestel 439 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 2: or the Boston Globe. 440 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 4: Hey, hey there, Dan, thank you so much. 441 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 5: In John, pleasure to speak with you. John'm just curious 442 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 5: you know, as someone who of course very closely follows 443 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 5: this situation very very closely, I'm curious that given a 444 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 5: secretary nuts sudden resignation, and Apple Green's unexpected withdrawal, and 445 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,120 Speaker 5: and the fact that Global Partners a time local operator 446 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 5: that offered strong financials, does it seem to you now 447 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 5: that the Mascot process was flawed from the start, And 448 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 5: do you think the new Big process will actually fix 449 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 5: those issues or just put a new face on an 450 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 5: old problem. 451 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 2: Great question, It. 452 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 4: Is a great question, and that is the fundamental question 453 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 4: that Jonathan Gulver, who is now under Secuary Transportation and 454 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 4: is also the highway administrator, who basically is on his 455 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 4: shoulders now he is the question, needs to answer. I 456 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 4: think there were flaws in the process. What I would 457 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,360 Speaker 4: say is one of the biggest flaws was the scorecard 458 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 4: they used it. You know, they evaluated the two finalists 459 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 4: based on a scorecard for different categories, and I found 460 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:56,959 Speaker 4: them the evaluation to be problematic because the revenue category 461 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 4: they actually ordered more points to Applegreen than Global and 462 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 4: then even though Global actually offered more revenue. So when 463 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 4: I pushed them on that, they said, well, we don't 464 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 4: really trust globals revenue figures. So it made me it 465 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 4: was putting sort of an objectivity on something that really 466 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 4: was subjective. I mean, it's let's just call space base. 467 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 4: If that's what it is, just say that's why we're 468 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 4: not picking them. But instead they have this whole grid 469 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 4: of how to rank them, and I was a little 470 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 4: skeptical of that grid. And so they're going to go 471 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 4: Jonathan Oliver told me he's going to go to all 472 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 4: of the bidders. There were six originally. It's not clear 473 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 4: to me how many dropped out or or just didn't 474 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 4: make the final round because their bid wasn't good enough. 475 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 4: I think several did drop out early. Well, he's going 476 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 4: to go back to them and the other four that 477 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 4: didn't make it to the final round and find out, like, 478 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 4: what can we do to improve it. I think it's 479 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 4: an honest effort on his part. I think we'll see 480 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 4: Global bid again. I don't know if we'll see Apple 481 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 4: Green Bit again. I know they're interested in bidding again, 482 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 4: but like I said, Blackstone has the final say on that. 483 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 4: Can it be improved? Yes, I have followed it all 484 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 4: the way from the start. I've been following it for 485 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 4: the past year, they have not let much information out, 486 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 4: and I did not get any sense that things were 487 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 4: awry really until you know, Global sort of fought back 488 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 4: with their own explanation for why they should have been 489 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 4: picked to run it, and you know, I think they 490 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 4: make some good points. I also understand this wasn't all 491 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 4: about the money. This was also about getting a big 492 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 4: investment that we could really, you know, have enough money 493 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 4: to have eighteen beautiful new buildings, either brand new or 494 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 4: signficantly renovated. And Apple Green promised a much more expansive 495 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 4: rebuild and Global did so I see why that was 496 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 4: more attractive to the state. So it's not like we 497 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 4: can just say, okay, Global offered a much better bid. 498 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 4: Why it doesn't make sense why Apple Green was picked. 499 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 4: Global offered a lot more in revenue, but Apple Green 500 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 4: had more ambitious capital investment. Now the state has to decide, well, 501 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 4: what are the most important things? What are we trying 502 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 4: to get out of It should just be about revenue. 503 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 4: I don't think it'll be totally about revenue will be 504 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 4: a factor, but how much of a factor all of 505 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 4: that's going to be weighed as they go back and 506 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 4: interview all the bidding teams and find out what happened. 507 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 4: Why did you pull out early? 508 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 2: Bottom line too, gentlemen, is this is a huge contract. 509 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 2: This is a contract that is going to run into 510 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 2: the year two thy sixty. It's a thirty five year contract. 511 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 2: And the money that we were talking about was the 512 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 2: amount of money that would come back to the state. 513 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 2: You got to multiply that by a function of at 514 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 2: least twenty or twenty five as to what the value 515 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 2: of the contract would be to the winning didder. This 516 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 2: is a huge contract. 517 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 4: And it also think about you know, Global Partners, was 518 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 4: you know, going to send one point five billion back 519 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 4: to the state over thirty five years. Yeah, multiply that, 520 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 4: like you said, by twenty because that's it's sort of 521 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 4: a percentage of of the revenue that they're getting. Yes, 522 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 4: it's a lot of money. Although I have to say 523 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 4: I've been surprised for by how both sides have really 524 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 4: dug in over the last few months over this. For 525 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 4: it's even though it's it's it is a ton of money. 526 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 4: Both of these companies and Stuffolk concluded, which is a 527 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 4: contractor for for Apple Green. They're large companies, so you 528 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 4: know this wasn't a make or break it deal for them. 529 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 4: They could have just left it, let it be, but 530 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 4: they slugged it out. 531 00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's still you're right. They neither one of 532 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 2: them left it until the award was made. Hey, Bill, 533 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 2: thank you very much for your call. Appreciate your perspective 534 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 2: and questions. 535 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you very much. 536 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 2: If anyone else would like to join, if you give 537 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 2: us a quick call, try to get you in. After 538 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 2: the break with John Chesto of the Boston Globe six 539 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 2: one seven four ten thirty six one seven nine three 540 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 2: one ten thirty jump on board, coming up in about 541 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 2: ten minutes of ten here on a Thursday night. Actually, 542 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 2: I think right now it's nine forty nine. We're a 543 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 2: little bit late for the break back. Right after this 544 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,479 Speaker 2: with John Chesto, business reporter second to none as far 545 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 2: as I'm concerned in this city from the Boston Globe. 546 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 2: Back after this on Night Side. 547 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray, Boston's news. 548 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 2: Radio, joined by John Chesto of the Boston Globe. John, 549 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 2: just you know this better. You know this better than 550 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 2: than anyone that I know. Uh, it's now literally the 551 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 2: middle of October, October sixteenth. How long do you think 552 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 2: it will take this second process to play out between 553 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 2: you know, the solicitation of a bids, the bid process, 554 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 2: and the awarding of Are we talking about another year 555 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 2: or someone? 556 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 4: I think, I think no. Have you surprised if they 557 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 4: can do this an under a year? You know, this 558 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 4: whole process started, I mean these bids. Just to give 559 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 4: you a sense of timing, the six bids, it initially 560 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 4: came in around this time last year. And now they 561 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 4: have to redo the process. They can't just put it 562 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 4: out the same way they had it last year because 563 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 4: obviously they want to improve it. So they do have 564 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 4: a time in mind. Like I said last time, they 565 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 4: were focusing on January first of this year because so 566 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 4: many of the contracts we're going to expire and are 567 00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 4: going to expire they need to get least extensions. Now. 568 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 4: Now you know I mentioned the Global has four plausas 569 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 4: that it runs out right, the two in Bridgewater, one 570 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 4: in Barnsaball and one in Beverly. Those expire in mid 571 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 4: twenty twenty seven, so they are trying to get it 572 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 4: done by then, and so they don't have to redo those, 573 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 4: you know, get the least extension there either. I think 574 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 4: that's a about right, you know even that you know 575 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 4: it's you you know, there's a six month transition period 576 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 4: at least, which is you know, you've got to file 577 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,439 Speaker 4: permits for renovations. You know, you're not going to start 578 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,359 Speaker 4: renovating all the buildings on day one, but you're you're 579 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 4: going to want to get going right away. So it's 580 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 4: it's a tight timeframe to even meet that goal of 581 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 4: mid twenty twenty seven to turn over to a new user, 582 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 4: assuming Global doesn't win it in the next round, and 583 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 4: maybe they'll maybe that gives Global a little bit of 584 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 4: an edge. I don't know, we'll see, but it's it's 585 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 4: it can death point. It'd be shocked if they can 586 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 4: do this in under a year. 587 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,840 Speaker 2: The the other thing that to me is interesting is 588 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 2: that that's going to bring us well into if it's 589 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 2: a year, it's going to bring us right up to 590 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 2: the election of next November when Governor Healy is up 591 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,439 Speaker 2: for reelection. So this this time all right, I did. 592 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 4: The timing was not lost on me there. Yeah, I 593 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 4: would not be surprised if this this decision is made 594 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 4: after that election. Uh, you know, it's it's now become 595 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 4: what seemed like a fairly straightforward public private partnership has 596 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 4: now become a political football, and I would not be 597 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 4: surprised if, you know, if there's a chance that you 598 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 4: know you're going to decide, you know, what to do, 599 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 4: who to pick in October, well let's just wait, maybe 600 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 4: we wait until December for that choice. 601 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. And also it's against the backdrop now of a 602 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 2: lengthening list of cabinets secretaries who have resigned. You know, 603 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 2: two in the Department of Transportation, the Veteran Services Secretary 604 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:13,240 Speaker 2: John Santiago left in August. Health and Hermits Services Secretary 605 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 2: Kate Walsh departed earlier this year, Economic Development Secretary Yvonne 606 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 2: Howe in April of this year, public Safety Secretary Terrence Reid. 607 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 2: It's been a year of a great deal of turmoil 608 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 2: within the Heally administration's cabinet, and I'm sure that's going 609 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 2: to be an issue that any all, if some, if 610 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 2: not all, of her potential Republican opponents are going to 611 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 2: be talking about throughout the year, through the Republican primary, 612 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 2: and then next September and October right up until the election. 613 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 2: This has to be a disappointment for the governor for 614 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 2: this thing to have blown up in her face. 615 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 4: Oh, I'm sure it is. 616 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:52,919 Speaker 2: Yeah. 617 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,280 Speaker 4: I think that it seemed like it was going smoothly 618 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 4: until it wasn't. You know, could have been a very 619 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 4: They were ready to uh you know, probably brag of 620 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 4: these beautiful new service plausas that we're going to uh 621 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 4: come to come to fruition through this ingenious uh you know, 622 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 4: getting process. Uh and then it kind of all fell apart. Uh. 623 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 4: So I will say about the turnover, Yes, there's been 624 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 4: a lot of turnover. Typically those first two years you 625 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,800 Speaker 4: generally have the same cabinet, and then after two years, 626 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 4: you know, you're most of your talented cabinet secretaries can 627 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 4: usually make more in the private sector. 628 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 2: Uh. 629 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,800 Speaker 4: And so we are seeing that sort of natural turnover. 630 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 4: I think to some extent there was question about whether 631 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 4: uh or heally was going to run again or go 632 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 4: to Washington. And I think that question was answered, yes 633 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 4: by the election cidential election. But I mean that I 634 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:06,280 Speaker 4: think you know, people probably thought, well, we'll stay along 635 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:09,280 Speaker 4: at least until then and then see what happened. 636 00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 2: John Chester was always one of my best, my most 637 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 2: favorite guests. Thank you so much. This is a complicated story. 638 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, this this one. It has been a complicated one, 639 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,359 Speaker 4: and you know the the fun never seems stand with well. 640 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 2: I think we'll have a few more of these sessions 641 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 2: before it's founding. Thanks. John talks soon next piece of 642 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 2: the Globe, John Chester, the Washington Globe. Everyone, we get 643 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 2: back on to talk about some ugly comments made by 644 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 2: a group of young Republicans, complete knuckleheads, who I want 645 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 2: to call on the carpet. I hope you will as well, 646 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,319 Speaker 2: coming back on Night's side right after the news at 647 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,760 Speaker 2: ten o'clock here on WBZ Boston.