1 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: And welcome back. You're listening to Let's sorry what Scott Berlin. 2 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: I am here with chief horticulturist of Gardens Alive, Mark Wessell. Hi, 3 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 1: Hi Mart, good morning, good morning, happy birthday. Thank you 4 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: you big lug. And on the line we now have 5 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: David Hoffman, uh, the son of the John Hoffman of 6 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: nursery fame grass, the guy who probably brought grasses more 7 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: into gardening in the United States. Anybody else day? And 8 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: how are you. 9 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: Good? Scott? Good morning? How are you guys? Good to 10 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 2: hear from you. Yeah, healthy birthday? Mark? 11 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 3: Well, thanks David. Sorry I missed you at Cultivate. 12 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: I saw David cultivating. 13 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 3: We saw them. 14 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: We had a good time. We did a lot of laught. Again. 15 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: I think they were laughing more at me than with me, 16 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 1: but it was I was oblivious at least at first day. 17 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: Tell me about yourself about Hoffman Nursery. 18 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I've been in the business now for probably 19 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 2: fifteen years and sort of grew up in the business 20 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 2: with hoff the nursery on site. We had a house 21 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 2: on the farm. My folks started the business though in 22 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six, and Dad before that was in landscaping, 23 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: and you know, couldn't find enough grasses because he really 24 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 2: had a passion for them and had traveled to Europe 25 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: to learn about a lot of what's going on over 26 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 2: there and had seen some of you know, those types 27 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 2: of more infamous designs like you know, Carl Forrester and 28 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 2: Ernst Poggles and some of those types of designs. 29 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: Guys that are very instrumental in the new naturalism, a 30 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: lot of the direction that horticulture is sort of taking 31 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 1: right now, mm hmm. 32 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so not some of those travels kind of 33 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,799 Speaker 2: came later, but they were very inspirational to a lot 34 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 2: of h Yeah, sort of where we where we started. 35 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 2: So he and my mom started the business back in 36 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six, predominantly in grasses and some grass like plants, 37 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 2: new aquatics and bamboos at the time, but kind of 38 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 2: everything came down to grasses there at the end, and 39 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 2: that's sort of where we specialize. So we we've got grasses, sedges, 40 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 2: and rushes, and then sort of over the years we've 41 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: transitioned into doing a few perennials now over the past 42 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: couple of years, and we also offer a few seed 43 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 2: mixes sort of to round out the selection of stuff 44 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 2: depending on where folks are looking. But but yeah, grasses 45 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: have really kind of grown up into you know, come 46 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 2: into their own and really been an instrumental part of 47 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 2: the landscape, especially in the last few years with different 48 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: types of designs, whether it's matrix plantings or meadows, A 49 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 2: lot of you know, green infrastructure type designs have really 50 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: you know, or water you know, cleaning water, and those 51 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 2: types of things have really brought grasses and some of 52 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: some of those like groundcover type plants into the into 53 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: the forefront of that space. 54 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and it seemed like, uh, probably in the 55 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: two thousands maybe or the twenty tens, there was a big, 56 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: big push for grasses, and then it kind of backed 57 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: off a little bit. But now we're seeing again, you know, 58 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: just how useful they are, both in designs and for 59 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: ecological function. And it's kind of it feels different where 60 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: it's not trendy, it's more real, solid and for real purpose. 61 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so much of what we've been doing, i mean, 62 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: you know, since the beginning, because people didn't really know 63 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 2: a lot about grasses. I mean, so much of what 64 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: we've done over time has been based on some of 65 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 2: the education around it. And getting people to learn more 66 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 2: about it. Whether in the beginning it was more what 67 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: is a grass and how to use them, and now 68 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 2: it's transitioned into, as you mentioned, more of the ecological 69 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 2: type discussions about their function, and there's so much more 70 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 2: of it, and we've always had you know, grasses are 71 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 2: a tough sell in a lot of ways because you know, 72 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 2: they flower mostly. You know, until you talk about some 73 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 2: of the cool season warm season types, you can see 74 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 2: that they flower off at the wrong time of the 75 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 2: year to go into a garden center, and so it's 76 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: just a bunch of green grass or sedges at that time. 77 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: So it's you know, we have to do a lot 78 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 2: more work in some cases to be able to talk 79 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 2: talk people into them. 80 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: And you guys have been you know, absolute leaders as 81 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: far as as education. You're always out there talk doing 82 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: talks and and a lot of industry activities and things 83 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: like that. You've you've really done a lot to tell 84 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: the world about the value and the beauty of grasses. 85 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: So I did want to we're kind of in that transition, 86 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: maybe a little bit later into transition, but I don't 87 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 1: think most people are familiar with the difference between cool 88 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: season and warm season grasses. 89 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, so cool season and warm season grasses. I mean, 90 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: when you think about it, really the and technically because 91 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 2: sedges aren't don't fall under the same family. They're in 92 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 2: the cyber as family versus the po ac family, which 93 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 2: is the true grass family. They said, just kind of 94 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: fall more in line with some of the cool sea 95 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 2: plants because they're actually flower in that spring and early 96 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 2: summertime and prefer the cooler temperatures. So whereas warm season 97 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 2: grasses really thrive in the summer. In those hot temperatures, 98 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 2: I mean there is a too hot where they kind 99 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 2: of slow down, and like you know, we have like 100 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 2: one hundred degrees plus a ten ten degree heat index 101 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:24,840 Speaker 2: here in North Carolina where we're based. But you know, 102 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 2: really that those warm season grasses, they'll go through the season, 103 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 2: put up a ton of foliage and then start to 104 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 2: begin to flower. Some of them are more dependent on 105 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: light for that, but really make that transition and have 106 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 2: those beautiful fall blooms that everybody loves. You know, you 107 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 2: could again that heat tolerance is key for some of 108 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 2: the warm seasons. The cool seasons in some cases will 109 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 2: actually go summer dormant and they'll just either shut down 110 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 2: or burn out a little bit, and then you'll see 111 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 2: a reflush after that if they don't die because it's 112 00:06:59,160 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: too hot. 113 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,799 Speaker 1: It's important that, yeah, that people have a mix of both. 114 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot more ecological function, especially with 115 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: insects and things, and people realize with grasses and you know, 116 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: the cool season ones are maybe even more important than 117 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: the warm season for that purpose. 118 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: Well, but I think it depends. I mean, you look 119 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 2: at some warm season grasses like either switch grass or 120 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: panicomb is a really great species for birds. Schizecarium little 121 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 2: blue stems, just as genuses are really important to be 122 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: able to support. Again, you know, you're you're when you're 123 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 2: thinking about a habitat, you need food, you need a home, 124 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 2: and then you need water. So each of these plants, 125 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: whether it's a panicom or or it's a little blue 126 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: stem or a switch grass, each of those can provide 127 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: that housing to be able to support some of these 128 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 2: which you need all of the different parts at all 129 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: levels to be able to support the full ecosystem. So 130 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 2: when we're thinking about it, we we really think that 131 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: you know, the warm seasons and cool seasons, depending on 132 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 2: where they are within the country or the world. You know, 133 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 2: those those have to be you know, you have to 134 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 2: have enough of the right plants in all of those spaces. 135 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: Always comes down the diversity and you know, having the 136 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: right plants and in place. For gardeners. Yeah, what are 137 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: some of the you know, easy the standard growing tips 138 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: for for using grasses in their gardens. 139 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 2: We find that grasses are extremely tough. You know, when 140 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 2: you're planting them in the ground, you really don't need 141 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 2: a lot of fertilizer. So that's you can you can 142 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 2: really back off, you know, especially in some of these 143 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 2: you know, really rich soil where it's either pre established 144 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 2: soil or some of those you can actually get a 145 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 2: lot of flopping and quick growth because there's too much 146 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 2: fertilizer when you have as far as like cutbas cutting 147 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: back those plants goes typically we recommend once a year, 148 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 2: depending on the goals of your landscapes. We're really trying 149 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 2: to encourage folks to cut back as either. You know, 150 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 2: if you're looking at like pollinators that are burrowing in 151 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: the stems, it's possible that you know, you want to 152 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: hold onto those as long as possible. I've actually heard 153 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 2: some people say that you can actually cut all of 154 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,719 Speaker 2: that back and like push it off to the side. Yeah, 155 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 2: and keep it on the same site to preserve those. 156 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: Hey David, we already have to take our first break. 157 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 1: We'll go ahead and do that when we'll continue this 158 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: conversation after a few short minutes. You're listening to let's 159 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: guarden Wiscott Berlin. 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Yeah, okay, that's 206 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 1: what I thought. 207 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 3: Do you remind your dad of that like all the time? 208 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 1: Ye? 209 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 3: Down, I'm the CEO here. 210 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: How about actually, says your dad? You know how interfering 211 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: is he? You know? We want to know? 212 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? 213 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: We love him, of course, he's very lovable. He's just 214 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: a great guy. Everybody in the industry loves him and 215 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: he's enjoying it. It sounds like a great retirement. It's wonderful. 216 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 2: That's that's right. Yeah, going out and looking for records 217 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 2: and drinking some beer. 218 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: Drinking beer and vinyl records. That's a good life. Maybe 219 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: I'll get there someday. I don't know. I don't know. 220 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 3: You're there, man. 221 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: We wanted to move on to talking about some of 222 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 1: the great solving problem solving features of grasses, and number 223 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: one I don't think it was on your list, but 224 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: it just occurred to me, is that Mark and I 225 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: were both thinking that is there a deer you know, 226 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: a grass that is eaten by deer? I mean mostly 227 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: they are solidly deer resistant. 228 00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 2: Typically, yes, we if there's enough around, growths are typically avoided. 229 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 2: But you know, you get into some more denser urban areas, 230 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 2: deer will eat about anything. From what we found, so, 231 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 2: you know, I think I think there are certain ones, 232 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 2: like you know, some of the some of the taller 233 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 2: ones or the more woody ones, I would say that 234 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 2: they're less apt to eat. But you know, you get 235 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: some tender growth and it's possible that they could pull 236 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: some of that off to before before it really establishes 237 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 2: or comes out of that. 238 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, and I don't know if if I'm right here, 239 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: but it seems to be like the high silicon silicone 240 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:43,119 Speaker 1: content of that's in the leaves of grasses is primarily 241 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: why they're not palatable for deer and other animals. Yeah, 242 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: except cows or things that have built up that. 243 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 3: Ability to eat stomachs to digest it, and yeah. 244 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: Ten stomachs and all that. I only have the one 245 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: go ahead, David. 246 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, no, no, it's I mean, but I think 247 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 2: that you know, that brings up a really good point 248 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 2: sort of talking about some of the why those why 249 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 2: grasses are so resilient because you know, that's silicon in 250 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: the that hardens those cell walls actually makes it makes 251 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 2: those plants more resistant to stress and makes them again 252 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 2: more resilient and stress holorant in those in landscapes and 253 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 2: more stressful environments. 254 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess why you can when you normally find grasses, 255 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: it's in a tougher places to grow, you know, where 256 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: trees can't make it, where forbes thin out, so usually hotter, drier, 257 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: poor soil type situations. So that makes them, you know, 258 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: wonderful for solving green infrastructure problems. 259 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 2: Definitely. You know, we see especially you know, as whether 260 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: whether you're talking about hab attack destruction to be able 261 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 2: to make way for development or those types of things 262 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 2: you know your people are putting in rain gardens or 263 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 2: bios wales. Erosion control is definitely a big problem you 264 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 2: get into any of these types of things. Meadows are 265 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: also becoming more and more popular. You know, when you 266 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 2: think about those those grasses really holding their own in 267 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: those spaces, it's, you know, you've got all different types 268 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 2: of conditions, whether it's you know, uh, inundation from rain 269 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 2: water in some of those you know, more wetter wetter conditions, 270 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 2: and really the grasses and said just can sort of 271 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 2: span all of that and be extremely drought tolerant to 272 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 2: that those wet conditions. And then when you think about meadows, 273 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 2: you know what we've seen, you know, some of the 274 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 2: research out there is, you know, those root systems for 275 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 2: those meadow plants when they're really established, I mean you're 276 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 2: getting you're getting roots down to like fourteen feet in 277 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 2: some cases, which is pretty substantial. When you're thinking about 278 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 2: you know, helping build that soil column all the way 279 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 2: down and then getting better infiltration, so that's helping mitigate 280 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 2: some of the flooding that can occur and other issues 281 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 2: to really help rebuild and replenish some of that rainwater. 282 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 2: There's a group called the American Society for Landscape Architects 283 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 2: and they put together what they call a Resilient Design 284 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: Framework and when they're thinking about it, and this is 285 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 2: they're trying to prevent, you know, different there's six different things. 286 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 2: There's biodiversity, lost, drought, extreme heat, fire, flooding, and landslides 287 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 2: as sort of they've picked those to try to tackle 288 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 2: and figure out. But you know, grasses can solve a 289 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 2: lot of those problems. And I know, you know, depending 290 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 2: on how you look at fire and grasses. I mean, 291 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of rejuvenating features of fire 292 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,800 Speaker 2: in the landscape. And I think that you know, it 293 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 2: gets a bad rap because of the destruction and that 294 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 2: I can cause. But you know, really managing it properly 295 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 2: can actually eliminate a lot of the fuel that's under 296 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 2: at the base of those whether it's forest or meadow spaces. 297 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 2: So it's you know, I think again, used properly, it 298 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 2: can be a great tool. We will occasionally burn things 299 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 2: on our property to try to help, whether it's even 300 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 2: in the greenhouse, and we've done it a couple of 301 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 2: times where we'll actually burn some of the meadow plants 302 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 2: to just remove the litter on it and save some 303 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 2: time for our team to be not have to do stuff. Wow, 304 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 2: it's fun when we do it. 305 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you haven't seen, you know, a management burn 306 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: of like a meadow or a prairie, it's it's pretty 307 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: amazing to see. But you know, relatively speaking as wildfires go, 308 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: a grass fire or prairie fire is pretty cool temperature 309 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: wise compared to like a forest fire or something like that. 310 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: So almost always it's it's beneficial to the the ecosystem. 311 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they I think they can be quite quite 312 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 2: fast when they move to. 313 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,960 Speaker 1: You gotta be careful. Yeah, he got to watch buildings 314 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: and regardless, kindergartens and things like that. Problem solving. Let's 315 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: move to like what you know, the problem solving capacity 316 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: of grasses for ordinary homeowners and gardeners. Uh, there's quite 317 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: a few different things that grasses can do for for them, 318 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: especially design wise and also just right plant, right site 319 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: type of thing. 320 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, for when we think about grasses, I mean, 321 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 2: you know you have there's so many different types of 322 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 2: grasses out there. I mean you've got shorter ones with 323 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 2: pinor sector I mean you're looking at color, color architecture 324 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 2: and things like that. I mean they can really kill 325 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 2: a lot of space. Yeah, you can be looking at 326 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 2: long altern efen stuff you to help than long. 327 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. We'll continue with that conversation in just a few minutes. 328 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: We got to go to another break. You're are listening 329 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: to Let's Guarden Scott Berlin. The podcasts are out there. 330 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: Uh just look up Let's Garden with Scott Berlin on 331 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: your favorite source of podcasts. I'm here with Mark o' 332 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: wessel and David Hoffman from Hoffin Nursery. We'll be back 333 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: in just a few minutes. 334 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 4: Save a life. 335 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,199 Speaker 7: Start with the air in your home. 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No scrubbing, no rinsing, no get yours today 352 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 7: Home Depot Lows, Walmart, Amazon, and Ace Hardware. That's Wet 353 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 7: and Forget Max. 354 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: And welcome back. I am pleased to be here with 355 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: Mark Wessel and also with David Hoffman, the CEO of 356 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: Hoffman Nursery, and we're talking about, you know, some of 357 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: the great problem solving selections of grasses and the reasons 358 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: to grow them for gardeners and the homeowners. Welcome back, David. 359 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 2: Hey, Yeah, yeah. I mean I think what we kind 360 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 2: of we left off was we were talking about some 361 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,479 Speaker 2: of the functions and why people or why people choose asses. 362 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 2: And I think that you know, to your point, you 363 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:05,520 Speaker 2: know a lot of the things that you know, we've 364 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: seen as far as problem solving. You know, there's lot 365 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 2: alternative plants out there that you know, folks are really 366 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 2: wanting to transition to have less lawn to mow. In 367 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 2: some cases, at least from folks that we've worked with. 368 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 2: Maybe it's you know the back, you know, the back 369 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 2: part of the property, maybe that can get a little 370 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 2: bit more wild and then in the front you can 371 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 2: do sort of more of a you know, a play 372 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 2: spase for kids or something like that. So, you know, 373 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 2: we're law alternatives when we talk about them, are something 374 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 2: that you know, you can kind of let go a 375 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 2: little bit more wild. But really it may be something 376 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 2: that you're only mowing like once or twice this season, 377 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 2: depending on how how much rain you got or how 378 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 2: sunny it is. I mean, it could be something that 379 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 2: you know is just naturally for those plants. They can 380 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: stay a little bit more compact, right, and maybe that's 381 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 2: okay for that space. 382 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: And a lot of those plants are low maintenance, low 383 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 1: in put type of plants. 384 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 2: M h yeah, definitely, which helps, you know, save everybody 385 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 2: a little bit of time on those gardens and they 386 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 2: can focus on some of maybe some of the more 387 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 2: flowering perennials or some of those other types of plants 388 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 2: that maybe just need more attention throughout the rest of 389 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 2: the season. 390 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 5: One. 391 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're concentrating. We've been talking a lot about 392 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: the environmental and the problem solving aspect of grasses, but 393 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: there are some beautiful grasses that you know you want 394 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,879 Speaker 1: for all of that, but also for their ornamental value 395 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 1: in the garden, both as specimens or fillers. Uh. Lots 396 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: of things out. 397 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 2: There, definitely, and we're seeing you know, there's been a 398 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 2: lot of and you know, we've talked about natives a lot, 399 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 2: and I think that there's still a space for ornamental 400 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 2: plants within this and we've gotten a lot of pushback 401 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,360 Speaker 2: on certain varieties, which we can get into a little 402 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 2: bit later if you want to. But you know, there's 403 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,640 Speaker 2: been some great panicm work from Dave mackenzie up at Hortech, 404 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 2: So some switch grasses with different heights and sizes, yes, Yeah. 405 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 2: And then the intropogon, which is a big blue stem 406 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 2: black hawks from intrinsic perennials, which is actually the Perennial 407 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 2: Plant Association's Plant of the Year, which is a great 408 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 2: like dark color and beautiful architecture in that landscape. It's 409 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:36,280 Speaker 2: about five to six feet tall. With the flower, there's 410 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 2: a lot of new scizicariums and they continue to find 411 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 2: new and. 412 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: Different ones little blue stems, yes. 413 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 2: Thank you. And it sort of within that species. I 414 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 2: mean you can get different colors from you know what, 415 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 2: there's one plant called chameleon which is like almost white, 416 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 2: which turns to red, and then there's you know, there's 417 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 2: purples and different hues that you know, certain ones do 418 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 2: better in different parts of the country. The ever Color 419 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 2: series from Fitzgerald Nursery in Ireland came out. It's probably 420 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 2: ten fifteen, almost twenty years ago. 421 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: Maybe those those are sedges, right, Krick's was Oshi mensis. 422 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 2: It is yestly there's a there's a couple of Kerck's. 423 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 1: Marrowy in there. 424 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 2: Okay, but yeah, there's there's but that's another great plant 425 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 2: and you know you talk about some cool color that 426 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 2: came from that to really out of pop to the landscape. 427 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 2: I mean there's some there's some neat colors that. 428 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: We were talking about Everillo earlier, and then there's ever gold. 429 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: It it occurred to me, is the ever part of 430 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: that because it's like named after Everest, Mount Everest, or 431 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 1: is it some other sorts of that. 432 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 2: I don't to be honest with you, I don't remember 433 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 2: what the origin of the name was. I don't know 434 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 2: if it came originally from ever gold speculations. I have 435 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 2: to go back and ask that. Yeah, but I think 436 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 2: you know, but you know, you you look at a 437 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 2: lot of the whether the breeding work that's happening out there. 438 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 2: There's a lot more work from local trial programs, like 439 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 2: I know up at Cincinnati Zoo, you guys have a 440 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 2: lot going on. Mount Cuba has a notable program. Chicago 441 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 2: Bisanna Garden has some great stuff. There's also some stuff 442 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 2: down here going on at different places, you know, to 443 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 2: try to have, you know, plants for the region, plants 444 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 2: that people can look at and see what's successful and 445 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 2: what's not and just you know, have a better idea 446 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 2: of what they could put into their own landscape. And 447 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 2: I think that's really important depending on where you are, 448 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 2: because you know, we talked about a little bit about 449 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 2: some of the care and sort of the growing tips earlier. 450 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 2: You know, the further south you go, disease pressure and 451 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,919 Speaker 2: higher humidity is going to be much more of a 452 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 2: problem for sort of follier and disease pressure on grasses, 453 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 2: and that's going to you know, it's just going to 454 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 2: change the look of your garden. And depending on what 455 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 2: your goals are, that may or may not matter, but 456 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 2: I just think it's an important thing to point out. 457 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 2: I think that and even you know, depending on what plants. 458 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 2: You know, we're seeing a lot of interest in sedges, 459 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 2: and you know, sedges are a unique genus of plants 460 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 2: that I think you can They can fill in a 461 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 2: lot of the gaps and spaces that in some cases 462 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 2: grasses can't do, which I think is you know, whether 463 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 2: that's a shade, whether it's a really dry shade or 464 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 2: a really wet shade. Yeah too, Yeah, some of them 465 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 2: can be extremely successful in those spaces. 466 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: No, we've talked a lot about grasses and sedges being 467 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: problem solvers, but there's a few that are problem causers. 468 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: And I don't want to dwell on this, but there 469 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: are a few that are bad actors, and I guess 470 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: we should go ahead and mention this if people are 471 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: aware of them. First of all, I guess this is miscanthus, 472 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: which you know everybody was growing, is very popular, and 473 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden starts showing up on road sides, 474 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: and in some areas it's a real problem. 475 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. 476 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. 477 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 2: That and penacetum is sort of folks are beginning to 478 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,479 Speaker 2: look out for that one fountain grass. Certain ones are 479 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 2: worse than others. But I think, you know, we're we're 480 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 2: seeing quick market changes in response to this, and I 481 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 2: think that you know, we as an industry would like 482 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 2: to have a little bit of you know, time to 483 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: be able to make a change because you know, we 484 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 2: didn't stop start growing with these plants yesterday, and we 485 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 2: need to be able to change the business model, increase 486 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 2: marketing on other plants to be able to fill that gap. 487 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: Absolutely so, And invasiveness can be so localized. So you know, 488 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: if you're in an area where mscanthus is a problem 489 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: or penacellum is a problem, absolutely don't grow it. But 490 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: in this area we haven't seen that much. Other areas 491 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: maybe not at all. Uh. And you know you can 492 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 1: you can still you know, buy those while they're available 493 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,920 Speaker 1: and very quietly, I guess they'll kind of go away. 494 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:09,959 Speaker 2: Uh. 495 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, you got you know, the green industry, 496 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: you got this big build up for something that's you know, 497 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: plants that you're hoping people will want and need in 498 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: five or ten years, and and then you it's sort 499 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: of like starting and stopping a train. It takes time 500 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: on both ends to yeah adapt. 501 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we you know, we it's going to be 502 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 2: really interesting in my opinion of the sort of the 503 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 2: shift over time with those plants, because you know, those 504 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 2: plants are very unique, and we've we've put together a 505 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 2: list of plants that we view as an alternative to those, 506 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 2: and they're not the same. And you know, all of 507 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 2: the landscape sort of reasons why you would you're looking 508 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 2: for a plant, whether it's the compactness and texture or 509 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 2: color or architecture, any of those types of things. You're 510 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 2: a MISS campus is a MISS campus, and there's nothing 511 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 2: that looks like a MISS campus and that's why it's 512 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 2: it has such a place in that landscape. So we're 513 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 2: going to really see like a big change in my 514 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 2: opinion of like what those landscapes are going to look 515 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 2: like in the next ten years, because it's going to 516 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 2: be less commonplace. 517 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: You know, with some of the other invasive species that 518 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: are out there. People have worked on fertile varieties. Is 519 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: any is there any hope on the horizon for a 520 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: fertile or infertile Miss Campertal. Yeah. 521 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's four different varieties out there that I'm 522 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 2: aware of. There's a couple from the University of Georgia. 523 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 2: There's a couple from the University of or excuse me, 524 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 2: in North Carolina State University that we actually were a 525 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 2: part of some of the initial research and development for 526 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 2: some of those plants with Tom Rainey up there. Yeah, 527 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 2: and they really great job of of their research and 528 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 2: the long term testing of those. I think that there 529 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 2: is a space for this and and I think that, 530 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 2: you know, once some of these plants do officially become 531 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 2: completely banned in these spaces, I think we'll see an uptick. 532 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 2: I think the the the view of these is because 533 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 2: they've gone through all of this scrutiny over the years, 534 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 2: I think that there's gonna it's going to be hard, 535 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 2: and that plant will never fully take over that space. 536 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 2: In my mind, And then especially with some of the 537 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 2: ecological pressures and some of the the other things that 538 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 2: are coming up from some of that is you're you're 539 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 2: not necessarily going to see you know, people are going 540 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 2: to look for plants that offer more than just those looks. 541 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 2: And I think that's it has been some of the conversation. 542 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,960 Speaker 2: But I think that you know, depending on where you are, 543 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 2: you may or may not may or may not see that. 544 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, the reality is always more way more nuanced 545 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 1: than a lot of the arguments and the social media 546 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: posts and other things what have you have you believe 547 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: one of those I guess is that. And you mentioned 548 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: this in a note that you know, some of the 549 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,719 Speaker 1: invasive exotic plants is a problem, but are a problem. 550 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: But you know, some of our native grasses are pretty 551 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: aggressive too. You got to watch out for those. 552 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and what makes one okay versus the other? 553 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, obviously a great example is Chasmanthium 554 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 2: or northern te It's that's that plant is pervasive in 555 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 2: some places, and it can take over some of those 556 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 2: some of those spaces, and it's native. And so I 557 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 2: think that some people really don't like that plant because 558 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 2: of it does take over. But you know, it has 559 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 2: a lot of the ecological benefits that some of these 560 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 2: obviously some of these other ones don't. 561 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: Without a doubt, I think of it. You know, when 562 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: people want to talk about putting it in their garden 563 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: and it's a beautiful plant. Yeah, I don't think you 564 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:05,719 Speaker 1: want it in your garden, but if you have an 565 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: ecological you know, like a back forty or a woodland 566 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: or you know, some kind of natural space, it's a 567 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: great addition to put in. 568 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, that that plant has ebbed and flowed in our 569 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 3: garden by design, you know, will be diligent and then 570 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 3: and then slack off. 571 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: It's hard to get rid of. 572 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard to get rid of, but we can. 573 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 3: We've kind of kept it in. 574 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: Check, but you know, we got to wrap it up here. 575 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: The problems of grasses are just a tiny fraction of 576 00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: against all the good things that they are. And you know, 577 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 1: I take a lot, I get a lot of joy 578 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: out of the grasses in my garden being you know, 579 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,879 Speaker 1: just ornamental and functional and easy. You know, you can't 580 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,720 Speaker 1: get any more ornamental, functional and easier, easier than Carl 581 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: Forster grass. It's I know, it's as common as dirt, 582 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 1: but that's it's common like that because it's so good 583 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: and I love it so telling you definitely keep you know, 584 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: banging on the uh on the drum for for grasses, 585 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: keeping keep up all the great work you do. We'll 586 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: talk them up as well. David, thanks so much for 587 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: being here. I really appreciate your time and your expertise 588 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,800 Speaker 1: and looking forward to seeing you up at Perennial Plant 589 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: Association conference coming up what less than about a week 590 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:23,280 Speaker 1: from them. 591 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, it's great. I really appreciate you guys 592 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 2: having me on. This was fun. 593 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: Great. Yep, you're listening to That's Guarden with Scott Berlin. 594 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: When we come back, we'll wrap this thing up just 595 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: a few minutes. 596 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,879 Speaker 5: Hard to sticking fly ribbons that get stuck to everything, well, 597 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 5: you'll love the newest fly trap from Rescue called Flypad. 598 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,840 Speaker 5: Flies are lured to the trap with special colors and patterns, 599 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 5: and thanks to an innovative ridge surface, it keeps your 600 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 5: fingers away from the glue. Flypad can be used anywhere 601 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,720 Speaker 5: you need fly control. Flypad is a sticky fly trap 602 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,800 Speaker 5: that won't stick to you. 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You say big bucks 611 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,240 Speaker 4: while transforming your home surfaces available online with free shipping 612 00:36:45,239 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 4: from the home Depot lows and Daich Coatings dot com. 613 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: And welcome back guy. You're listening to Let's Garden with 614 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: Scott Berlin. I'm Scott Berlin. Mark Wessel's right across from me, 615 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,839 Speaker 1: and it's time to wrap this one up. We're getting 616 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: towards the better and the time it really does. That 617 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: was a good conversation with David. It was good to 618 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 1: do right right. Are you doing any gardening today or 619 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. I have things I want to do. 620 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to see how it feels when I get 621 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: out there. It's it could be too hot and humid, 622 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: and I'm not sure where the smoke is. And then 623 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: storms are coming. A soccer game is on, and it's 624 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: like all these priorities get mixed up and mashed up 625 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: and it becomes a big mess. Mark My weekends tend 626 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: to become in to become big messes. Yeah, like my life. 627 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 3: Right, it reflects your life. 628 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: It reflects my life. Yeah, it is what eight fifty 629 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: one and it's time for what Mark? 630 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:09,960 Speaker 3: My favorite part of the show. 631 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:15,280 Speaker 1: My favorite part too, when Jerry, when Gary Sullivan joins us, Gary, welcome, 632 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: how are you good morning? I'm doing fine, good, good 633 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: well this week? Huh Oh. 634 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 4: How was that garden this week? 635 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, I was never outside. 636 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a little little stuffy, little stuff and 637 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 4: min at rain last night, how about that? Yeah, it's unbelievable, 638 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 4: isn't it. 639 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Mark and I were talking, so I read 640 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: where Madisonville got five inches in an hour in an 641 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 1: hour and Mark got a little over an inch and 642 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: a half two inches. 643 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 3: Well, I haven't measured it yet, but it's probably going 644 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 3: to be in the four inch ring. 645 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: Oh, you're in the four inch ring, Madeira. Yeah. And 646 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,800 Speaker 1: then I was I'm three miles away from Mark and 647 00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: Anderson township and I got half an inch, believe Yeah, 648 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 1: it was crazy. 649 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 4: I don't ever think I remember seeing I seventy one 650 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 4: right close because of water and you know, our flagship 651 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 4: stations as Cincinnati, Ohio for people wondering where we're at. Yeah, 652 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 4: but you know, we we're seeing more and more of that, 653 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 4: you know, even in the Carolina's and Tennessee. I know 654 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:20,320 Speaker 4: we used to get flooding. 655 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: But good lord going through in Missouri. Yeah, you know, 656 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: it seems like every week. 657 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 4: I used to always stand there, you know, do all 658 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,840 Speaker 4: these radio interviews when we had a heavy downpour, and 659 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 4: I'd always say, you know, it's all about water control, 660 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 4: trying and controlling that right brossway system. Of course, it'd 661 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,280 Speaker 4: probably help if they unclogged a couple of drains. 662 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 1: I was that was a problem. I was visualizing, you know, 663 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 1: that drain with sticks. 664 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,919 Speaker 4: Everything is exactly Yeah, that had to be a big 665 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 4: part of the problem. Thing been dry, get a lot 666 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 4: of that gunk on the ends, and then the big 667 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 4: old delusion, you got problems. So needless we might talk 668 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,799 Speaker 4: a little bit about flooding and really about you know, 669 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 4: everybody's like this. There's no one that isn't if you 670 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 4: have a leaky basement or just a little leak, I 671 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 4: always get but it only leaks when it rains. 672 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's usually the way it works. 673 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,799 Speaker 4: But you know, just some of the gut reactions right 674 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 4: away is plug that hole. And then I always like 675 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,719 Speaker 4: to say, well you can do that, where's that water 676 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 4: going to go? 677 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 1: Then some other hole or make a new one making, Yeah, 678 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 1: make a new hole. 679 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 4: So I think we'll talk a little bit about that today. 680 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 4: Not always a favorite sub pressure, but even in cross 681 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 4: spacesh you know sometimes you know, they're always kind of 682 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 4: damp and molding anything. Is it? 683 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 1: Nine nine times out of ten it comes down the 684 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: gutters and it's soil sloping away from your foundation. Yeah, 685 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,720 Speaker 1: ninety nine times out of hundreds. 686 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 4: Everybody goes inside to fix the problem. The problems outside, yep, yeah, 687 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:56,319 Speaker 4: problems outside. So we'll talk about that for the I 688 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 4: think it's the one hundred and fifty thousand times. I 689 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,839 Speaker 4: think I think it might be a little bit less 690 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 4: than but not much. 691 00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: Hey, some some subjects just stand at the time. 692 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,799 Speaker 4: You know what it's it's a big deal, right, Yeah, 693 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,719 Speaker 4: if you have some d professionally come in, it's a 694 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 4: lot of money. On the other hand, try and sell 695 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,239 Speaker 4: your house if you don't get it fixed, exactly, it's 696 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 4: not gonna go away. That's one thing that's not going 697 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 4: to repair itself. 698 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: So water is one of the if not the biggest 699 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:23,399 Speaker 1: force of nature out there. 700 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 4: Sure is has it and then we got smoke. So 701 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:29,239 Speaker 4: change your furnace filters. 702 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: Ah, yeah, just maybe step it up a few weeks 703 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:33,879 Speaker 1: earlier than Yeah. 704 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 4: You know, so if it's ninety day filter in there 705 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,319 Speaker 4: and it's been seventy days, you might take a look 706 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 4: at it. You got a new one in. I'm half 707 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,840 Speaker 4: a candle in it, you know. Yeah, not being an alarmist, 708 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 4: but just kind of stay ahead of the problem. Yeah, 709 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 4: so we got plenty to talk about today, that's for sure. 710 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: Well I'll be listening and uh I'll be joining you 711 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 1: in a little bit too. 712 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 3: Sounds great. 713 00:41:55,200 --> 00:42:00,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks Gary, all right, you bet you so? Uh yeah, water, 714 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: you know, that was a lot of water all at once, 715 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: and uh for a lot of people. And uh fortunately 716 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: the soil was sort of moist and could be receptive 717 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 1: for at least some of that range. Sure, but you know, 718 00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: so often it's the opposite. You know, the soil is 719 00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: baked solid and then you get this stay lusion. Every 720 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: bit of it runs off. 721 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,800 Speaker 3: But some of that had to soak in yesterday, a 722 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,840 Speaker 3: lot soaked in. But boy, what kills me is I 723 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,800 Speaker 3: try to mitigate the erosion with various mulches and stuff. 724 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: But in my vegetable big billy. 725 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:35,839 Speaker 3: You know the soil moves. 726 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:41,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, some moved. Well, Mark, I really appreciate you joining 727 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: us again. 728 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 3: Thank god, it's been a pleasure. 729 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 1: You're shaving me on multiple occasions. 730 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,439 Speaker 3: For myself, well, I can't even think of a better 731 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:49,279 Speaker 3: way to start. 732 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: My day and your birthday and my birthday. Yeah, happy 733 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: birthday once again. And and you you're chief horticulture ists 734 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: with Gardens Alive. Where can we find more gurneys? 735 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,160 Speaker 3: If do you go the Gurney Seed Nursery website and 736 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 3: then just in the search function, put dig in and 737 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 3: you'll go to these video all these questions. 738 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,360 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you do a lot of good videos. 739 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:16,360 Speaker 1: David Hoffman, thanks to him Hoffmannursery dot com. Next week 740 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: we have Sarah Geigerbeam joining us again. We'll have great conversations. Sarah. 741 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,400 Speaker 1: It's National Hammock Day getting your hammock. Thank you Danny 742 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: Gleeson for giving it to us straight. We appreciate that 743 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,279 Speaker 1: always podcasts are available on all the best sources of podcasts. 744 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: See you next week.