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Speaker 1: Welcome to Get Connected with Nina del Rio, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about fitness, health and happenings in our community on

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Speaker 1: one oh six point seven Light FM.

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Speaker 2: Welcome and thanks for listening to Get Connected. March first,

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Speaker 2: so welcome to March, and welcome to also International Women's Month.

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Speaker 2: With that, my guest is sculptor Carolyn D. Palmer for

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Speaker 2: a conversation about her projects honoring the first female physicians

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Speaker 2: in the US, doctor Elizabeth Blackwell and doctor Sarah Logan

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Speaker 2: Fraser for the courtyard of Sunny Upstate Medical University. You

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Speaker 2: can find out more about all of Carolyn's work at

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Speaker 2: Palmer Sculptures dot com. Carolyn Palmer, thank you for being

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Speaker 2: on Get Connected.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Nina. I'm very happy to be here.

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Speaker 2: These statues are in Syracuse. You are based in Bergen County,

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Speaker 2: but I want to tell people they may have already

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Speaker 2: seen your work locally in other places in the Northeast.

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Speaker 2: Where can we see your work?

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, you can see four of my popes at

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Speaker 3: Saint Patrick's Cathedral when you walk through the two entrances

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Speaker 3: the side entrances, and you can also see my Frank

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Speaker 3: Sinatra in Hoboken in the Frank Sinatra Park with the

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Speaker 3: backdrop of the Manhattan skyline. You can see my Lucille

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Speaker 3: Ball in her hometown of Celeron, New York. And I

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Speaker 3: actually have FDR and Eleanor Roosevelt at the FDR Presidential

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Speaker 3: Library and Museum in Hyde Park, New York. And there's more.

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Speaker 3: There's other ones too.

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Speaker 2: But these are the ones you might have just already

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Speaker 2: seen if you happen to be around. So let's talk

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Speaker 2: about these sculptures, these new ones. I'll give a bit

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Speaker 2: of detail about each woman, and then we'll talk more

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Speaker 2: about your work. So, doctor Elizabeth Blackwell was the first

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Speaker 2: woman in the US to earn a medical degree, among

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Speaker 2: her many achievements in her life. In October eighteen forty seven,

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Speaker 2: she was accepted to Geneva Medical College in Geneva, New York.

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Speaker 2: And the interesting thing to me was the dean and

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Speaker 2: the faculty wouldn't They couldn't make a decision about whether

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Speaker 2: to admit her. So they put the issue up to

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Speaker 2: a vote by the student body one hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: male students, with the stipulation that if one objected, they

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Speaker 2: would say no, she could not be admitted. The young

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Speaker 2: men did vote unanimously to accept her, but they also

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Speaker 2: treated her application as a joke. She graduated in eighteen

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Speaker 2: forty nine and the first practice she established was a

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Speaker 2: dispensary near Tompkins Square in eighteen fifty three. Doctor Sarah

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Speaker 2: Logan Fraser, the other statue, Caroline just unveiled, was the

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Speaker 2: first African American woman to graduate from Sunny Upstate Medical University.

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Speaker 2: She was the fourth female African American physician in the

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Speaker 2: US and the first female doctor in the Dominican Republic.

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Speaker 2: She earned her degree in eighteen forty She earned her

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Speaker 2: degree in eighteen seventy six. Now in the Dominican Republic,

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Speaker 2: she was only permitted to treat women and children because

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Speaker 2: of her gender, and later she returned to Syracuse and

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Speaker 2: ended up practicing pediatric medicine from her home and mentored

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Speaker 2: black midwives. They have really interesting stories. Both are worth

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Speaker 2: looking up, doctor Elizabeth Blackwell and doctor Sarah Logan Fraser.

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Speaker 2: But Carolyn, do you have any other surprising or lesser

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Speaker 2: known facts you learned about them while working on them?

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Speaker 3: Oh, my gosh, there's so many. With Elizabeth Blackwell. With

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Speaker 3: doctor Elizabeth Blackwell. After her graduation, she went to Paris,

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Speaker 3: to work in a hospital and she was operating on

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Speaker 3: a little baby's eye and the baby came out of

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Speaker 3: the birth canal with a mother who had gone rhea.

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Speaker 3: So she was extracting the pus and it squirted into

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Speaker 3: her left eye and her left eye went blind, and

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Speaker 3: that destroyed her chances of ever becoming a surgeon. But

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Speaker 3: she went on to be amazing in her field of

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Speaker 3: obstetrics and also opening medical schools. And that's why, of

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Speaker 3: course I have her hand reaching towards I'm getting ahead

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Speaker 3: of myself here, but reaching towards the door of the

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Speaker 3: medical school. And with Sarah Logan Frasier, she's quite amazing.

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Speaker 3: She was the goddaughter of Frederick Douglas and her sister Amelia,

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Speaker 3: married Frederick Douglas's firstborn son. So a lot of people

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure if they know that, but it's quite

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Speaker 3: an interesting These two women are just phenomenal in many

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Speaker 3: many ways. I could go on and on, but we

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Speaker 3: only have twenty minutes here.

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Speaker 2: Well, both of these statues were unveiled at the courtyard

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Speaker 2: of Sunny Upstate Medical University last fall. How did the

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Speaker 2: project come about? How did you come to be involved?

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Speaker 3: Well, actually, there was a call for all artists that

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Speaker 3: came out and I thought, wow, two women doctors. And

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Speaker 3: you know, I started out my career trying to go

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Speaker 3: into medicine. My uncle was a doctor. And then I

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Speaker 3: was like, well, I really like art. But these women,

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Speaker 3: they were very, very powerful in their fields and at

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Speaker 3: a time in life where they had to be so

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Speaker 3: strong and bold and courageous. And when I start to sculpt,

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Speaker 3: I take on like the personality of those of who

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Speaker 3: I'm sculpting, and I thought, Wow, what a chance to

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Speaker 3: sculpt real courage. And so I wanted to win this contest.

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Speaker 3: So I entered it, and I made two little mechettes

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Speaker 3: of them, and I had to go before the committee,

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Speaker 3: and it was a national competition, and I was just

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Speaker 3: elated when they told me that I had won the competition.

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Speaker 2: There are images of these women. They lived in the

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Speaker 2: era of photography. There's a few black and whites of

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Speaker 2: each of them. How do you begin capturing the essence

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Speaker 2: of a historical figure when there's no video someone who

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Speaker 2: lived a century ago?

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Speaker 3: Exactly all my other projects, I pretty much had videos

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Speaker 3: for everyone. I could screen capture, I could stop in

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Speaker 3: my studio. I have lots of photos for everyone, and

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Speaker 3: with these two women, there were very few recenturses, and

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Speaker 3: so I had a take from the photos that were online,

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Speaker 3: and many of them for doctor Elizabeth Blackwell were incorrect photos,

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Speaker 3: like they even have Clara Barton. If you look online

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Speaker 3: as Elizabeth Blackwell's face, they have her sister Emily as

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Speaker 3: Elizabeth Blackwell. Elizabeth Blackwell had brothers and their wives. Some

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Speaker 3: of them they would say, oh, this is Elizabeth Blackwell.

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Speaker 3: So it came down to the real Elizabeth Blackwell, please

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Speaker 3: stand up. But I did a lot of research and

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Speaker 3: I found the profile that I wanted to work from

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Speaker 3: the frontal image, and then it was more about the

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Speaker 3: research of who she was that I brought out in

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Speaker 3: those features.

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Speaker 2: Since you bring that up and you mentioned the hand

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Speaker 2: that you put in doctor Elizabeth Blackwell reaching forward, how

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Speaker 2: much of a part does that sort of research play

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Speaker 2: about their lives and who they actually were beyond the image.

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Speaker 3: I portrayed with her an intensity in her in her

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Speaker 3: eyes and in her face that would show the passion

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Speaker 3: she had for the future of medicine. And I have

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Speaker 3: her hand reaching towards the doorway of the medical University,

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Speaker 3: which was very symbolic and they now call it the

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Speaker 3: Courtyard of the Founding Mothers, which I really like. And

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Speaker 3: so yes, and with Sarah, I mean with with with

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Speaker 3: Sarah Logan Fraser, doctor Fraser. I have her with her

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Speaker 3: medical bag, she's a pediatrician, and I have her looking compassionate,

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Speaker 3: with her head tilted a little sideways and her hand

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Speaker 3: is guiding the students and the faculty along the pathway

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Speaker 3: to the to the university.

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Speaker 2: My guest is doctor Carolyn. My guest not doctor. My

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Speaker 2: guest is sculptor Carolyn Palmer. I am oh, are you

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Speaker 2: good for you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they gave me a doctorate degree.

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Speaker 2: Carolyn Palmer's sculptures you can see more of them at

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Speaker 2: palmer sculptures dot com. We're talking about her two recent

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Speaker 2: commissions for Sunny Upstate Medical University. On this first day

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Speaker 2: of International Women's Month. You're listening to get connected on

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Speaker 2: one six point seven Light FM. I'm na del rio.

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Speaker 2: How did you end up in sculpture? Why? Sculpture? You know?

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Speaker 3: It found me really when I was a little girl,

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Speaker 3: I remember having this passion to create faces, drawings to

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Speaker 3: when I was in the sandbox or at the beach.

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Speaker 3: I had this passion to make little people in the sand,

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Speaker 3: and I didn't know where they came from. You know,

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Speaker 3: looking back now, with a lot of the experience I

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Speaker 3: have behind me, I can see how, wow, why is

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Speaker 3: a child born really really with a desire to do something.

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Speaker 3: I don't understand it, but it was there.

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Speaker 2: There's so many parts to sculpting. I just looked online

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Speaker 2: before our conversation about the casting and the bronze and

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Speaker 2: all these things. What is your favorite part of the process.

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Speaker 3: Well, my favorite part of the process is actually the

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Speaker 3: sculpting of the features to bring the life out into

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Speaker 3: the person. I want to feel the soul of the person.

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Speaker 3: I have to feel they're alive before I let it go,

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Speaker 3: and that is my favorite. And of course, the six

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Speaker 3: thousand year old bronze making process. I'm dealing with that

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Speaker 3: right now. I'm in the foundries in and out because

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Speaker 3: I'm working on a sixteen foot tall Mother Nature project

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Speaker 3: and it's quite extensive. I just gave a talk actually

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Speaker 3: on the making of my two women bronzes, the two

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Speaker 3: women Doctors, to the Physician Society in New York City,

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Speaker 3: and everyone was quite amazed at what goes into making

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Speaker 3: a bronze. It's just it's an amazing engineering process and

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Speaker 3: it takes quite a long time.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing when you think about they've been doing it

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Speaker 2: for thousands of years as well. Yes, so historically, sculpture,

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Speaker 2: a fine art in general, is a male dominated field.

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Speaker 2: Can you talk about how that shaped your career or

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Speaker 2: perspective or even the way you approach a job.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Actually, I feel that today your portfolio will speak

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Speaker 3: for itself and when it comes to museum expositions and

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Speaker 3: things like that. I know Harvard and other colleges have

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Speaker 3: done studies on it that For some reason, I think

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Speaker 3: it's more of an inherited kind of feeling that the

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Speaker 3: male gets first choice. And you know, I often think

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Speaker 3: of two doctor friends of mine, a male and a

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Speaker 3: woman married, when they're on the airplane and they say,

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Speaker 3: is there a doctor on board? And the two of

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Speaker 3: them raise their hand. They want the male. So we

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Speaker 3: still have that remnant of, you know, choosing the male

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Speaker 3: over the female. And as far back as women started

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Speaker 3: doing art, they would always think of women as at

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Speaker 3: home decorative art and the men the genius, you know,

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Speaker 3: which is a total misconception.

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Speaker 2: What would you say? I would love thoughts to about

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Speaker 2: the attention in the last few years to honor more

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Speaker 2: notable women of history with statues and public monuments.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I really really love that. I think it's wonderful

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Speaker 3: and I think it's about time. You know, I'm not

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Speaker 3: this strong kind of like, Okay, we're all well, I

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Speaker 3: do believe we're all equal, but I'm not like, you know,

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Speaker 3: out of control about it. But I do think it's

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Speaker 3: necessary and that you know, we have the same talents,

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Speaker 3: the same gifts. Gender does not.

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Speaker 2: Matter again to these projects that you've just done for

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Speaker 2: the Sunny Upstate campus of these two female doctors. You

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Speaker 2: have done the Frank Sinatra statue in Sinatra Park, you

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Speaker 2: have the four papal bus at Saint Patrick's Lucille Ball.

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Speaker 2: When you look across your body of work, is there

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Speaker 2: something that connects all these.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think they're humanity. You know, it's not about

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Speaker 3: whether it's a religious figure, it's a political figure, it's

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Speaker 3: a celebrity. It's about what they contributed to life and

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Speaker 3: how there's there's spirit came through to other people and

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Speaker 3: touched many many fans, and so that's where I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, it all comes together. It's really about that

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Speaker 3: bringing out who they were.

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Speaker 2: And about the work. What would you say to younger artists,

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Speaker 2: especially women hoping to work on a large public scale

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Speaker 2: like you do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I was thinking back to when I

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Speaker 3: was a young artist and how I printed out photographs

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Speaker 3: of all the great women artists, like back to the

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Speaker 3: eighteen you know, fifties, even earlier. They had some that

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Speaker 3: they spoke about and I pasted them all over the walls.

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Speaker 3: You know, it gives you something to look up to

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Speaker 3: or to be like. You know, you just want to

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Speaker 3: It's an inspirational exercise. So I would say, do that.

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Speaker 3: Believe in yourself and don't stop. Just keep believing in yourself,

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Speaker 3: keep going because there's so many there's so many obstacles

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Speaker 3: that get in the way. I forgot who said it,

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Speaker 3: but they said, you know, success is nothing but persevering

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Speaker 3: through a lot of different failures or letdowns, and you

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Speaker 3: just keep going.

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Speaker 2: And like you say, there's something to be said for

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Speaker 2: a vision board.

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Speaker 3: I do think, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

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Speaker 2: What do you hope people take away when they see

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Speaker 2: doctor Blackwell and doctor Logan friz you're on the Sunny campus.

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Speaker 3: I hope that they feel welcomed. I hope that especially

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Speaker 3: the women feel heard. Again. I think there's standing monuments

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Speaker 3: to what you can become in life, and they I

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Speaker 3: just think they're inspiring statues that welcome everyone and give,

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Speaker 3: like the students hope in their futures. And I'm told

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Speaker 3: by the President the students just hang around them photos

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Speaker 3: And when I hear that, that just makes this word

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Speaker 3: work all worth it.

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Speaker 2: Those statues are level. You can see pictures of them online.

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Speaker 2: But of course if you happen to be up by

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Speaker 2: Sunny Upstate Medical University in Syracuse, there right there on

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Speaker 2: the campus the new statues of doctor Elizabeth Blackwell and

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Speaker 2: doctor Sarah Logan Fraser, again worth looking up online to

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Speaker 2: find out more about them. That's part of the point

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Speaker 2: of the sculptures. Right, and my guest is the sculptor

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Speaker 2: Carolyn D. Palmer. More details on her at Palmer Sculptures

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Speaker 2: dot com. So nice to meet you and thank you

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Speaker 2: for being on Get Connected.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Nina, Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: This has been Get Connected with Nina del Rio on

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Speaker 1: one oh six point seven Light FM. The views and

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