WEBVTT - 10-16-25 Sloan with Jason Philabaum

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<v Speaker 1>Do you want to be in a Manican?

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<v Speaker 2>Rodney Hinton Juniors accused of killing Hemmelin County Sheriff Deputy

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<v Speaker 2>Larry Henderson Maysecon and he this is the guy who

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<v Speaker 2>took his car, drove around looking for a deputy to

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<v Speaker 2>run over, and runs over a Deputy Henderson. And all

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<v Speaker 2>Henderson was doing is working traffic until operating a light manually.

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<v Speaker 2>At UC's graduation ceremony a few hours earlier, Hinton and

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<v Speaker 2>his family got to look at body camera video was

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen year old son Ryan being fatally shot by Cincinnati police.

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<v Speaker 2>The video we've subsequently seen and said that kid had

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<v Speaker 2>it coming running with a gun in his hand, dropping it,

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<v Speaker 2>picking back up, not complying with law enforcement, and Rodney

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<v Speaker 2>Hinton to showed the level of a sociopath that he

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<v Speaker 2>and maybe his son was decided that his son was

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<v Speaker 2>completely innocent and we're going to have a shooting space

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<v Speaker 2>as such.

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<v Speaker 1>By the way, the.

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<v Speaker 2>Hinton family is still trying to file lawsuits and make

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<v Speaker 2>this a case against CPD and officers and saying that

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<v Speaker 2>justice was not served in the shooting of the sun

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<v Speaker 2>even though this kid is running around with a gun,

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<v Speaker 2>dealing cars and committing violent crimes with impunity. That's not

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<v Speaker 2>the kind of people we need on the street. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know that that pervasive attitude that permits in the

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<v Speaker 2>community is not trickled up to the mayor's office. But nonetheless,

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<v Speaker 2>yesterday a court appointed forensic psychologists found Rodney Hinton, Junior,

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<v Speaker 2>the dad, suffering from serious mental illness, making him ineligible

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<v Speaker 2>for the death pedal. The question is is he going

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<v Speaker 2>to avoid punishment. We're going with the not guilty by

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<v Speaker 2>reason of an insanity play. And this is just a

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<v Speaker 2>preliminary by the way, this is the court appointed psychiatrist

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<v Speaker 2>who was doing this, and there's a long way to

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<v Speaker 2>go and we'll find out if and when Rodney Hinton

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<v Speaker 2>will face the death penalty. Jason Philibaum, attorney, a law,

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<v Speaker 2>former prosecutor and Butler County defense attorney, now joins the show.

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<v Speaker 1>Jason, how you been, good morning? Doing well? Thank you?

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<v Speaker 2>All right, We've had this discussion before about NGRI. But

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<v Speaker 2>so the diagnosis for Hinton is bipolar disorder psychosis. A

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<v Speaker 2>psychologist concluded that mental illnesses impacted and paired him to

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<v Speaker 2>his ability to exercise rational judgment the time of his offense.

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<v Speaker 2>His attorney, a very good attorney in Clyde Bennett argues

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<v Speaker 2>that hit and didn't understand the wrongfulness of his conduct.

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<v Speaker 2>But I look at this and go, I know prosecutors

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<v Speaker 2>are going to look at a second opinion.

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<v Speaker 1>This is very early in the game.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, when you drive around and you stalk

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<v Speaker 2>your prey, that tells me that you are of right mind,

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<v Speaker 2>you know exactly what you're doing. This is a really

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<v Speaker 2>difficult approach that they're using here, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, I think there's two things to consider. The first

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<v Speaker 3>thing is to consider or whether or not he should

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<v Speaker 3>be not guilty because of insanity, and that's a very

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<v Speaker 3>specific definition of whether he knew essentially the wrongfulness of

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<v Speaker 3>his action. The second question, which is what they were

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<v Speaker 3>kind of discussing yesterday, is whether he should be executed

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<v Speaker 3>because of his mental health disorder. I mean, the one

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<v Speaker 3>thing I always tell jury's and I've always told people,

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<v Speaker 3>is people that commit crimes aren't mentally normal.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean that's you know, everyone.

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<v Speaker 3>That essentially commits a violent crime like that has some

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<v Speaker 3>issue going on. The question is is the issue the

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<v Speaker 3>mental health so severe that it is prohibited, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>to have the state use the death penalty, and I

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<v Speaker 3>think that's what they're looking at right now. And Clyde,

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<v Speaker 3>he does do a good job in this case. He's

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<v Speaker 3>he's essentially attacking it from two different angles. He's saying,

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<v Speaker 3>my client's not guilty because he's insane, and if you

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<v Speaker 3>find him.

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<v Speaker 1>To be sane, then you can't put him.

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<v Speaker 3>To death because his mental health is so severe that

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<v Speaker 3>that's not applicable to him, right the law.

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<v Speaker 2>Jason Philibama believe if correct, my Brian, you're the attorney.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not, But.

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<v Speaker 2>Are there there are four specific mental illnesses that make

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<v Speaker 2>defendants death penalty and eligible. And so how does the

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<v Speaker 2>law define significantly impaired to exercise rational judgment, which is

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<v Speaker 2>what's going on here, and the evidentiary standard prosecutors have

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<v Speaker 2>to the burden they have to overcome to still pursue

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<v Speaker 2>the death penalty.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the answer to that is probably a good law

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<v Speaker 3>school class. But the in shorts, I think it was

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<v Speaker 3>House Bill one thirty six essentially prohibits the death penalty

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<v Speaker 3>for those that were diagnosed with schizophrenia, I think schizophrenic disorder,

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<v Speaker 3>bipolar disorder, and delusional disorder.

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<v Speaker 1>But again it has to be something that's significant.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, anyone that's abused drugs usually will have some

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<v Speaker 3>type of diagnosis with bipolar But if it's not significant

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<v Speaker 3>enough to impair and essentially effect their everyday life to

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<v Speaker 3>the extent that you know, that's that's something I think

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<v Speaker 3>would be a factual decision that has to be determined.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, got it.

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<v Speaker 3>And so what you're going to what you're going to

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<v Speaker 3>have from a preliminary standpoint is one psychologist basically said, yes,

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<v Speaker 3>it's severe enough that he shouldn't be facing the death penalty,

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<v Speaker 3>at least that's what we kind of got from the

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<v Speaker 3>court yesterday. And then the state's going to get a

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<v Speaker 3>second opinion, which happens all the time, this is not abnormal.

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<v Speaker 1>And if that doctors says it's not, then.

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<v Speaker 3>I think you're going to say that the judge is

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<v Speaker 3>going to say, let the jury decide that, and I'll

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<v Speaker 3>explain that.

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<v Speaker 1>In a minute.

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<v Speaker 3>But okay, if the second opinion comes back and says no,

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<v Speaker 3>it's severe, then all of a sudden, you've got two opinions,

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<v Speaker 3>one from the defense one from the state, and they

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<v Speaker 3>both say it's severe. Then you're going to have the

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<v Speaker 3>situation where the state may take the backbone of the

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<v Speaker 3>office table themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, And there's a high bars there should be

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<v Speaker 2>for an insanity defense because mental illness alone that doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>mean legal insanity.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a distinction.

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<v Speaker 2>There's what you're saying, and so many people to buy Paul,

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<v Speaker 2>disorder and psychosis can distinguish right from wrong. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know if I'm the prosecutor, I look at this going, well,

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<v Speaker 2>he knows how to the rational behavior would be. He

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<v Speaker 2>gets in a vehicle, he operates a motor vehicle, presumably

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<v Speaker 2>abides by most of the traffic laws. Anyway, on that date,

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<v Speaker 2>he's looking for a target. He's out there basically stalking,

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<v Speaker 2>looking for law enforcement officer to kill, maybe even a

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<v Speaker 2>white law enforcement officer. The statements and what statements he

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<v Speaker 2>made before during because I guess when they were showing

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<v Speaker 2>him the video, he just kind of stormed out. The

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<v Speaker 2>family tried to calm him down. He was just angry.

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<v Speaker 2>But a lot of people commit crimes when they're angry.

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<v Speaker 2>Look at the shootings at Fountain Square, that's probably about

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<v Speaker 2>an anger street beef. Stuff like that doesn't mean a

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<v Speaker 2>mental mental illness or incompetency, you know. And at the

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<v Speaker 2>time he took off, he struck him and they caught

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<v Speaker 2>him later. And I think all that adds in the

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<v Speaker 2>fact that you know, he made some sound decisions and

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<v Speaker 2>was of the right mind that led up to the

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<v Speaker 2>death of Ederson. I don't know how a jury wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>look at that.

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<v Speaker 3>And those are exactly the points the prosecutor is going

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<v Speaker 3>to argue if insanity is allowed to pursue, and man,

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<v Speaker 3>he has to have a psychologist that also supports the

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<v Speaker 3>insanity defense. And the one interesting thing about that is

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<v Speaker 3>we can't see what these reports say. The judge specifically

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<v Speaker 3>scolded or warned or whatever both parties that they do

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<v Speaker 3>not want this report and leaked, so we don't know

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<v Speaker 3>what's in the report.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't know exactly what was said.

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<v Speaker 3>We can surmise a little bit from the arguments, but

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<v Speaker 3>at the end of the day, the prosecutor is going

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<v Speaker 3>to argue, exactly what you just did. This was a

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<v Speaker 3>calculated This was a planned This was premeditated at least

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<v Speaker 3>by an hour or two, if not.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, a few minutes. It doesn't have to be

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<v Speaker 1>like a year long meditation.

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<v Speaker 3>It's he planned it, even if it was in a

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<v Speaker 3>short plan. So I think all of those arguments are

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<v Speaker 3>what the state's going to argue that he is he

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<v Speaker 3>is guilty for what he did and insanity is and apply.

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<v Speaker 1>Now if he's found guilty, then in a death penalty phase.

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<v Speaker 3>You then have a sentencing phase. It's this completely separate hearing.

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<v Speaker 3>So jury goes back and just determines is he guilty

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<v Speaker 3>or not. And if they find him guilty, then the

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<v Speaker 3>defense and the state get together again and they present

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<v Speaker 3>more evidence. And at this point, the state has a

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<v Speaker 3>burden to prove that the death pence is applicable in

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<v Speaker 3>this case. And that's where you get a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>mitigation from the defense. You know, oh he's a great guy,

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<v Speaker 3>or oh he has these mental illness or get a

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<v Speaker 3>bad light whatever. And that's where these reports really will

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<v Speaker 3>come into play, because if if they can convince a

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<v Speaker 3>jury that he has this serious illness that prohibits the

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<v Speaker 3>death penalty, then the jury won't be able to give

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<v Speaker 3>the death penalty. And what's interesting is there's there's three

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<v Speaker 3>off ramps for Clyde's clients. The first is if both

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<v Speaker 3>reports come back, maybe the state takes it off or

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<v Speaker 3>the judge says, I'm not.

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<v Speaker 1>Going to allow it.

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<v Speaker 3>What's more likely is you're going to have competing experts,

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<v Speaker 3>and so the jury judge is going to let the

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<v Speaker 3>jury decide, and then the jury is gonna, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>essentially make their decision. If they find the death penalty,

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<v Speaker 3>then the third off ramp will be in a pellet

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<v Speaker 3>court who will look at all the evidence and determine

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<v Speaker 3>and that's where we might see this development the appellate court.

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<v Speaker 3>So there's a lot of sort of moving parts, but

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<v Speaker 3>it really will come down to what this next expert says.

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<v Speaker 1>Gotcha.

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<v Speaker 2>He is a defense attorney. Jason philobaum our legal expert

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<v Speaker 2>on The Sloan Show talking about Rodney Hitton Junior. I

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<v Speaker 2>know we got the Terry Thigi stuff. We're talking about

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<v Speaker 2>that today as well, but this is an important story

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<v Speaker 2>because he's accused of killing Deputy Larry Henderson. I remember

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<v Speaker 2>that after his son was out with a gun and

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<v Speaker 2>got shot by Cincinnati police officers, I showed them the

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<v Speaker 2>video of the shoot was ruled a deemed a good

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<v Speaker 2>shooting on the part of the police officers because the

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<v Speaker 2>son was running around with a gun stolen car. Eighteen

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<v Speaker 2>year old Ryan Hinton was legally shot by Cincinnati Police.

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<v Speaker 2>He loses his mind apparently and goes and kills for

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<v Speaker 2>no reason, Deputy Larry Henderson as quote unquote revenge, And

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<v Speaker 2>now they're trying to play the well, he had bipolar

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<v Speaker 2>disorder and psychosis, and safe to say, most people have

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<v Speaker 2>some mental illness in their life. I mean, everyone thinks

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<v Speaker 2>they're normal. The rest of the world is afft up,

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<v Speaker 2>but that's not the case. We're all flawed in some way,

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<v Speaker 2>shape or form. I think what he did is beyond

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<v Speaker 2>the effect of psychostists or bipolar disorder. I mean, clearly

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<v Speaker 2>he knew what he was doing when he murdered Larry Henderson,

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<v Speaker 2>and now is just trying to evade his due punishment

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<v Speaker 2>in this case. When a courter pointed forensic psychologists to

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<v Speaker 2>testify that he's got these illnesses, Jason, Okay, So he testifies,

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<v Speaker 2>prosecutors will get a second opinion and make contradute the first.

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<v Speaker 1>How does the judge sort this all out?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it's difficult, but at the end of the days,

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<v Speaker 3>there's some judges that will, you know, try to impose

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<v Speaker 3>their own sort of decision on the case.

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<v Speaker 1>And we've talked about that. We kind of, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>want a judge that's going to more interpret the law

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<v Speaker 1>and not necessarily make the law.

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<v Speaker 3>So some judges may look at this and say, I'm

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<v Speaker 3>taking the death penalty off the table. I have enough

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<v Speaker 3>to do it because this expert says, So I think

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<v Speaker 3>what you're going to see more judges do is take

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<v Speaker 3>a look at it, and if it's a factual issue,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to let the jury decide it, because that's

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<v Speaker 3>essentially what our society is based on, is let the

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<v Speaker 3>jury decide, you know, the factual issues.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, if it's clear.

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<v Speaker 3>Cut, then I think the judge has a duty then

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<v Speaker 3>to take the death penalty off the table. So if

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<v Speaker 3>every expert says this is so severe that the death

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<v Speaker 3>penalty shouldn't apply, then I.

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<v Speaker 1>Think the judge has a duty to do it. But

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<v Speaker 1>if you have competing experts.

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<v Speaker 3>One says he is one says he's got issues, but

0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.719
<v Speaker 3>not to the point that the death penalty shouldn't be excluded,

0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:25.199
<v Speaker 3>then I think most judges are going to say I'm

0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.920
<v Speaker 3>going to let the jury decide this. That way, you know,

0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.760
<v Speaker 3>there's a fair trial and jury decides, and then they're

0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:32.720
<v Speaker 3>selling a pellet court that's going to look at it

0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.400
<v Speaker 3>again and determine whether or not, you know, the judge

0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.079
<v Speaker 3>made the right decision, whether the jury made the right decision,

0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:41.080
<v Speaker 3>and so on. So I think the best thing to

0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.319
<v Speaker 3>do is let it go through the process. But when

0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.920
<v Speaker 3>a judge sort of takes one side and rips away

0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.600
<v Speaker 3>their you're their case, I think that's what a lot

0:11:49.600 --> 0:11:51.319
<v Speaker 3>of a lot of people don't like to see.

0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and Jason Philibon, the idea here is that we

0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.920
<v Speaker 2>know he's guilty. You got you've got in place to

0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:00.360
<v Speaker 2>the scene, you've got the smoking guy, and you've got

0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:02.400
<v Speaker 2>the murder, you've got the deliberation, you got the intent,

0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:04.120
<v Speaker 2>you got all that stuff. There's no question about it.

0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.400
<v Speaker 2>He's the guy, and he did what he did what

0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:08.280
<v Speaker 2>Clyde Bennett is trying to do in to send some

0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:09.680
<v Speaker 2>wiggle room to save this guy's life.

0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:10.439
<v Speaker 1>That's all this is.

0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:14.240
<v Speaker 4>Right, Yes, And you know what's interesting is we all

0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:17.200
<v Speaker 4>get to the issue of the death penalty, like you

0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:21.120
<v Speaker 4>know what happened with Charlie Kirk and his assassination. At

0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.640
<v Speaker 4>some point, you know, is life in prison worse than

0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:27.520
<v Speaker 4>the death penalty? But right now, that's not a decision

0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.199
<v Speaker 4>the jury makes. That's not a decision that the judge

0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:33.960
<v Speaker 4>should make or the attorney should make. That's the decision

0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.679
<v Speaker 4>of society makes. So they look at this case individually.

0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:40.360
<v Speaker 4>Does the death penalty apply? It does based on the

0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.600
<v Speaker 4>alleged facts. And then the second question is should the

0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:47.280
<v Speaker 4>defendant get the death penalty? And all the Ohio law

0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:50.920
<v Speaker 4>did was really sort of podify what the Supreme Court

0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:55.840
<v Speaker 4>has already said. You can't execute the mentally ill, you

0:12:55.880 --> 0:13:01.280
<v Speaker 4>can't execute minors, you can't execute you know, low IQ individuals.

0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:03.959
<v Speaker 4>They and then so Ohio took it one step further

0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:06.160
<v Speaker 4>and said the mentally ill are.

0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.480
<v Speaker 3>These four categories, and we're not going to let you

0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.600
<v Speaker 3>do that. It still comes down to a factual decision, though,

0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:15.280
<v Speaker 3>about whether or not this individual meets those criteria, and

0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:16.600
<v Speaker 3>I think that's what a.

0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:17.960
<v Speaker 1>Jury should decide in this case.

0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:21.760
<v Speaker 3>With that said, if a second opinion comes back and

0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.920
<v Speaker 3>as clear as day that this guy's got some problems,

0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.760
<v Speaker 3>then it's just a matter of you know, life in

0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:32.560
<v Speaker 3>prison versus not And I think that's a guilty versus

0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:33.440
<v Speaker 3>not guilty.

0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:35.280
<v Speaker 1>And like you said, that's not really in question. The

0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:39.000
<v Speaker 1>question is what happens when the jury finds him guilty.

0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:43.520
<v Speaker 2>In this case, does intent override mental illness? In that

0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.040
<v Speaker 2>the prosecutors claimed to hit and intentionally drove in to Henderson,

0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.840
<v Speaker 2>I think that's clear that he did. But does that

0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.920
<v Speaker 2>evidence of intentional, purposeful, willful conduct undermine the mouth of

0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:54.760
<v Speaker 2>lillness claim.

0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.600
<v Speaker 3>It does to some extent, But you have to think

0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.720
<v Speaker 3>about almost every crime is intent. And the guy that's

0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:04.280
<v Speaker 3>hopped up on drugs and breaks into a house and

0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.120
<v Speaker 3>then you know, gets into a fight with a homeowner.

0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:09.000
<v Speaker 1>And kills them, that was all intentional.

0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.760
<v Speaker 3>But in this case, like you emphasize, which is what

0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:16.200
<v Speaker 3>the prostitutes and emphasized, there was an intent to kill

0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.000
<v Speaker 3>long before you broke into a house and stumbled across

0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:20.600
<v Speaker 3>the homeowner.

0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.240
<v Speaker 1>You know, that was sort of a secondary intent.

0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.640
<v Speaker 3>This guy was, you know, allisedly driving down the street

0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:29.560
<v Speaker 3>looking for an officer to exact his revenge. And I

0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.160
<v Speaker 3>think that's what's going to like you said, probably err

0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:35.960
<v Speaker 3>on the side of Hey, this person was sane enough

0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.760
<v Speaker 3>to coordinate a plan of attack to kill this individual

0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:42.000
<v Speaker 3>standing on the side of the road, And that's going

0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.280
<v Speaker 3>to go against whether or not this psychosis is so

0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.480
<v Speaker 3>bad that it should take a death penalty off the table.

0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:52.040
<v Speaker 2>Now in the hitting case. How common is it for fase,

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:56.040
<v Speaker 2>I believe aggravated murder is what the charge is. To

0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.600
<v Speaker 2>successfully use mental illness as a defense here, it's pretty

0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:00.200
<v Speaker 2>rare that they succeed.

0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:04.720
<v Speaker 3>Well, it's rare in the guilt phase, but it's actually

0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:08.240
<v Speaker 3>not that. I mean, it's more common in the you know,

0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.400
<v Speaker 3>I've had a death penalty cases where I remember one

0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.600
<v Speaker 3>of my first death penalty cases, the guy stabbed the

0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.840
<v Speaker 3>guy twenty three times and we argue to the jury that,

0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.080
<v Speaker 3>you know, he should face the death penalty because it

0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:22.720
<v Speaker 3>was a burglary and a murder, and the jury came

0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:24.120
<v Speaker 3>back and found life.

0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:25.960
<v Speaker 1>And the reason was is, you know, the.

0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:29.040
<v Speaker 3>Guy had a bad childhood, he had some mental health issues,

0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.240
<v Speaker 3>he was depressed, he was anxious, and they felt that

0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.320
<v Speaker 3>was enough to you know, take off the death penalty

0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:39.680
<v Speaker 3>and just do life in prison. And I think because

0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:41.920
<v Speaker 3>it has to be a unanimous decision. So what happens

0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 3>is there's twelve jurors and ten are saying death and

0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.160
<v Speaker 3>two are saying no this. You know, there there's two

0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.120
<v Speaker 3>reasons why he should maybe not get death, and then

0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.240
<v Speaker 3>after two days of deliberation, the jury comes back with

0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.240
<v Speaker 3>life because they're thinking, hey, life is worse than death.

0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:00.480
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I if I have to spend the rest

0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.840
<v Speaker 3>of my life in prison, that's awful. I think that's

0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:08.080
<v Speaker 3>why defense attorneys will argue, and sometimes very successfully, that

0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.400
<v Speaker 3>mental health is a reason why you should put this

0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.960
<v Speaker 3>person in prison for life instead of death.

0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:18.440
<v Speaker 2>All right, Jason Philibum. Finally, December first, I believe, is

0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.760
<v Speaker 2>the next hearing. It's insignificant one, and the determination there

0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.400
<v Speaker 2>is going to be whether a judge finds hitting death

0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:29.480
<v Speaker 2>penalty and eligible or eligible If indeed that happens December first,

0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:31.840
<v Speaker 2>and I'm sure we'll talk around then. Can prosecutors appeal

0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:33.920
<v Speaker 2>that decision for the trial and what's going to happen

0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:35.440
<v Speaker 2>December first and quickly thereafter.

0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:38.240
<v Speaker 1>That's a good question.

0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:43.040
<v Speaker 3>And you know, typically a prosecutor cannot appeal that decision

0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:48.520
<v Speaker 3>prior to the trial, so the prosecutors have very limited

0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:49.320
<v Speaker 3>appellate rights.

0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:52.240
<v Speaker 1>It's usually after the fact, and if someone has.

0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.600
<v Speaker 3>Found not guilty, then you know they can have an

0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.040
<v Speaker 3>appeal that argues law, but it's not going to change

0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.320
<v Speaker 3>the verdict. So in this particular case, I think they're

0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.960
<v Speaker 3>probably going to be stuck with whatever the judge decides.

0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:05.560
<v Speaker 3>I mean, they could appeal after the fact, but it's

0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.440
<v Speaker 3>not going to change this case. So it's really going

0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.480
<v Speaker 3>to come down to what December happens, is what their

0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:14.600
<v Speaker 3>expert says. If they're expert, and I would expect their

0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.560
<v Speaker 3>expert comes back and just has a different opinions, then

0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:19.800
<v Speaker 3>I would expect the judge to say, let us go

0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:23.119
<v Speaker 3>to trial and decide. But again, if it's a situation

0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.040
<v Speaker 3>where you know it's clear that he has such a

0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:29.920
<v Speaker 3>mental health issue that qualifies under this House bill, then

0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:34.160
<v Speaker 3>and you may see the prosecutor withdraw it to himself.

0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:34.760
<v Speaker 1>All right.

0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.080
<v Speaker 2>He is James el Jason PHILIBAUMA attorney at law, former

0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.080
<v Speaker 2>or a prosecutor now in private practice, explaining what the

0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.160
<v Speaker 2>path forward is. Here Rodney Hinton Junior, in his insanity play,

0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:49.400
<v Speaker 2>a court ordered psychologist concluded he's got mental health illness.

0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.720
<v Speaker 2>It's significantly a comparisability to exercise rational judgment when he

0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:56.080
<v Speaker 2>decided to murder and stalk and kill Larry Henderson, which

0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.000
<v Speaker 2>I think if I were in a jury, I disagree

0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.159
<v Speaker 2>with that, But we'll find out with the defense. The

0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.440
<v Speaker 2>I guess the prosecutors move now and then that hearing

0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:04.840
<v Speaker 2>on December first, and all the whole sorts out, but

0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:08.280
<v Speaker 2>he is Jason Philipon. Thanks again for the sharp legal

0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:10.080
<v Speaker 2>insight as always, Buddy, appreciate you.

0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:12.119
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate it. Thank you.

0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.280
<v Speaker 2>All Right, we move on next up on the Scottslan

0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.159
<v Speaker 2>Show on seven hundred W. Of course we start with

0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:18.679
<v Speaker 2>the news updates about four or five minutes away, and

0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.160
<v Speaker 2>later on we'll get to Dan Hort Thursday Night football.

0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Something a little lighter for us today, Cincinnati Pittsburgh and

0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:27.040
<v Speaker 2>all closer than that the state of Terry Thiji as

0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:30.480
<v Speaker 2>we await the verdict on her career future, whether and

0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:32.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, again, I don't think it matters if it's

0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:37.359
<v Speaker 2>Thiji or it's and Chief anybody else for that matter,

0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:39.160
<v Speaker 2>in a long list of people been around and again

0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:41.600
<v Speaker 2>it is the piper that's calling the tune. And the

0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:45.040
<v Speaker 2>piper would be after Pure Vault manager shere Long. I

0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:47.399
<v Speaker 2>don't know, maybe Iris rawling a bunch of others, but

0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.800
<v Speaker 2>Fiji is like kind of like when Zach Taylor fired

0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:54.520
<v Speaker 2>lou Ana Rumo last season, and that is it really

0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:57.840
<v Speaker 2>lou Anaruma because he took his show to Indianapolis and

0:18:57.880 --> 0:18:58.680
<v Speaker 2>they're five and one.

0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:03.119
<v Speaker 1>So is it really the.

0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:04.560
<v Speaker 2>The person who's subject to the rule or the rulemakers themselves?

0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:06.160
<v Speaker 1>You decide seven hundred wiltw