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Speaker 1: Now your host can brew on news radio seven hundred WLW.

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Speaker 1: We're only here for a short time today, so let's

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Speaker 1: make it a good time, right right, It's just a

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Speaker 1: matter of our own fun. Just a half hour today,

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Speaker 1: coming up bottom of the hour, it's you see Kansas

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Speaker 1: basketball from out in the Great Midwest, out on the

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Speaker 1: plane out in Lawrence, Kansas against a very very good

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Speaker 1: basketball team, Kansas right now standing at twenty and six

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Speaker 1: and ten and three inside the Big twelve, of course,

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Speaker 1: you see, Bearcats are fourteen and twelve, six and seven

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Speaker 1: of the Big twelve, fighting, scrapping, hoping to win their

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Speaker 1: conference tournament later next month so they can qualify for

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Speaker 1: the NCAAA tournament. Kansas, those stands in there, and they

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Speaker 1: are very very good. Meanwhile, out over the pond in Italy,

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Speaker 1: the Olympics continue, and I suppose the headline for US

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Speaker 1: yesterday was that Nick Gepper did not win, did not medal,

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Speaker 1: and suffered a horrible crash in the halfpipe. I remember

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Speaker 1: he was an Olympic competitor in several Olympics in a

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Speaker 1: different sport other than the halfpipe. He was in the

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Speaker 1: free style ski slope and it retired from there but

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Speaker 1: then he got the bug again to go ahead and

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Speaker 1: try and qualify in this event for these Olympics. And

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Speaker 1: he tried a trick in yesterday's run, and it simply

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Speaker 1: did not work out. A rare Olympic feat of winning

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Speaker 1: a medal after turning his career over to a different event.

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Speaker 1: He was one skier away from being named bronze medalists,

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Speaker 1: but he was outdone by Canada's Brandon McKay. And Gepper suffered,

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Speaker 1: as I said, a terrible fall landed on his back.

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Speaker 1: Everybody thought for a minute there, oh wow, okay, but

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Speaker 1: he was he got up, he walked away. Were being

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Speaker 1: told today that he's in terrible pain, but he will

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Speaker 1: be okay. But no metal for Nick Kipper, the young

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Speaker 1: man who learned how to ski on the slopes of

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Speaker 1: perfect North Slopes in Lawrenceburg, Indiana. And then, of course

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Speaker 1: it's what the Supreme Court did to Donald Trump and

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Speaker 1: his tariffs yesterday, shooting them down six to three three

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Speaker 1: conservative judges. Well, John Roberts isn't a particularly conservative judge,

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Speaker 1: but nevertheless John Roberts siding with the majority, as was

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Speaker 1: Amy Kmy Barrett. The real strange vote came from Gorsich.

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Speaker 1: Gorcis seems like a pragmatist to me, and yet he

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Speaker 1: sided with the majority and in a six y three ruling.

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Speaker 1: Trump cannot implicate tariffs the way he was doing it.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't that the tariff and the tariff theory and

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Speaker 1: imposing tariffs are illegal. It's how he was going about

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Speaker 1: doing it under the Emergency Act he was doing it under.

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Speaker 1: And he has many other avenues now to try and

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Speaker 1: resurrect his tariffs. He could use the Trade Expansion Act

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Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty two, which allows the Commerce Department to

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Speaker 1: impose tariffs on articles imported in such quantities or under

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Speaker 1: such circumstances as to threaten or impair the national security.

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Speaker 1: There's another there's section two thirty two of the Trade

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Speaker 1: Expansion Act. There's also an Act of nineteen seventy four.

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Speaker 1: In that particular case, US Trade Representative Jamison Greer, who

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Speaker 1: was a Trump nominee, could seek retaliatory tariffs against countries

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Speaker 1: with unfair trade barriers. The problem for Trump is he's

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Speaker 1: got to go through various hoops now to get to

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Speaker 1: where he wants to go. But nevertheless, he seemed undeterred

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Speaker 1: yesterday when this ruling was handed down, and so what

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Speaker 1: is the future Now, do we get any kind of

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Speaker 1: rebate because of what it cost us to buy goods

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Speaker 1: extra money to buy goods under the tariff acts that

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Speaker 1: were imposed by Donald Trump? And then what happens to

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Speaker 1: his ability to negotiate on an international level. Standing by

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Speaker 1: to check in on all of this is Dan Voni.

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Speaker 1: He is a financial strategist, financial investor, all things financed.

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Speaker 1: This is your guy. He's based out in Washington, DC.

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Speaker 1: Watched this with great concern, as I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of us did yesterday, and he's ready to weigh in

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Speaker 1: on all of it. And Dan Varoni, how are you

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Speaker 1: on this glorious Saturday.

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Speaker 2: Good? When did I get into financial investing? We should

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Speaker 2: do that in another convasation.

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Speaker 1: No, absolutely, I mean you're a strategist. You're a strategist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: If you strategize, you get then then you get into

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Speaker 1: investing and all that. By then, by then you know

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Speaker 1: you're probably running the Treasury Department. So I think that's

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Speaker 1: that's probably a progression for you. I mean, you're out

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Speaker 1: there anyway, why not? Right?

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Speaker 2: Well? Whatever?

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Speaker 1: All right, So the Supreme Court sixty three decision, they

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Speaker 1: dropped the ruling yesterday. For why it took six months

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Speaker 1: for them to make this ruling is beyond me. But

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Speaker 1: one of the things that I was struck by is

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Speaker 1: that they may be the finest legal minds in the country,

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Speaker 1: they're certainly not economists because there was absolutely no direction

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Speaker 1: that was laid out as to all of this tariff money.

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Speaker 1: Who gets reimbursed? When did they get reimbursed? Is it countries,

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Speaker 1: is it companies or is it the individual guy walking

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Speaker 1: around the streets of Cincinnati like me. I mean, they're

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Speaker 1: very very short on anything but legal detail. Did you

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Speaker 1: sense anything other than that?

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Speaker 2: No. I think there's a lot of details to be

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Speaker 2: worked out. But what I want to be clear so

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Speaker 2: that the President spoke yesterday, and in addition to that,

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Speaker 2: Treasure Secretary of Bassett also spoke, so to be clear,

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Speaker 2: the parents are not going away. What the Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: said in their sixty three decision is that broader global

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Speaker 2: tariffs can't be imposed under emergency powers without commerce. Now

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Speaker 2: that being said, there are other tariff tools that the

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Speaker 2: administration has plenty to use. Yesterday, the President said that

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Speaker 2: he's imposing a global ten percent tariff under his authority

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Speaker 2: under Section one twenty two, which is for temporary tariffs.

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Speaker 2: There's also Section threeer one investigations. Needless to say, the

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Speaker 2: administrative policy is going to move forward. So it was

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Speaker 2: just the emergency aspect that was struck down today on

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Speaker 2: the basis of the Supreme Court decision which said that

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Speaker 2: in order for the president to impose these emergency powers,

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Speaker 2: he needs a congressional authorization to do so. However, the

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Speaker 2: president still has power under Section one twenty two temporary

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Speaker 2: tariffs and also can conduct Section threer one investigations as

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Speaker 2: well as By the way, there are other tariffs in

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Speaker 2: place section threeer one, like China in Section two thirty

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Speaker 2: two still of Luman duties. Those romain in pass. So

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Speaker 2: the idea that the Supreme Court struck it all down,

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Speaker 2: it's all going away. It's not true.

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Speaker 1: Well, the overriding consensus that I can put together at

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Speaker 1: this point was at least those that are on the

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Speaker 1: side of what the President is doing. Is the Court

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Speaker 1: basically said, you know, you check the wrong box, which

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Speaker 1: was the EPA box I E E PA the type

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Speaker 1: of tariffs. But they didn't. You're right, they did not

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Speaker 1: strike down tariffs. It's just that he went about it.

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Speaker 1: The methodology was just wrong. Okay. We can argue back

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Speaker 1: and forth whether or not the Supreme Court should be

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Speaker 1: sticking its nose into what this country does or doesn't

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Speaker 1: do economically, But he's got to go back to Congress. Now,

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Speaker 1: where you and I both know you more so than

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Speaker 1: me because you live out there. It's so much a

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Speaker 1: part of what's in the news. The fact of the

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Speaker 1: matter is that you've got to go to a governing

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Speaker 1: body that can't seem to agree on anything, and it

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Speaker 1: sounds like and it can correct. He has to do

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Speaker 1: this almost on a country by country basis, does he not?

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Speaker 2: So, yes, he does. And when I will tell you

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Speaker 2: that the idea that he could get congressional authorization in

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Speaker 2: this polarized environment is just virtually impossible. And you know

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Speaker 2: one thing I want to introduce to this conversation. Do

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Speaker 2: you know how long this current trade order has been

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Speaker 2: in effect? You probably don't. You know it's almost eighty

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Speaker 2: years since the end of World War Two.

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Speaker 1: Well, I did not know that. I know that there

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Speaker 1: was a bill. Jeez, I want to say this was

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Speaker 1: almost fifty years ago forbe was in office, So it

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Speaker 1: was over fifty years ago, and it was a bill

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Speaker 1: that gave the president brought her authority to impose tariffs.

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Speaker 1: It's called the Trade Act of nineteen seventy four. I

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Speaker 1: guess my point is is there are a number of

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Speaker 1: products that are there for him to use where he

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Speaker 1: can continue this. He just can't go the way he

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Speaker 1: was going about it. And I think that's probably the

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Speaker 1: headline on all of this.

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Speaker 2: That's the what happened yesterday, That is the headline. But

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Speaker 2: I don't want to leave on the table the sub headline.

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Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is as follows. So

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Speaker 2: when you look at the additional investment coming into this country,

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Speaker 2: the pharmaceutical industry, automotive industry, steel industry, there are additional

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Speaker 2: investments being made as a result of the leverage that

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Speaker 2: President Trump created. That leverage will create jobs. And you

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Speaker 2: know what else that leverage will create. That it will

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Speaker 2: create exports. Exports create jobs and then create more jobs

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Speaker 2: and more wealthy American people. So I don't want that to,

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Speaker 2: you know, disappear off the table. That there have been

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Speaker 2: positive things that have come out of this leverage. In particular,

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Speaker 2: that's just one example. The trade and balance with China

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Speaker 2: is thirty two percent less than it was as a

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Speaker 2: result of this leverage. The other thing that's come out

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Speaker 2: of this, which is also significant, cars made in the

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Speaker 2: US can now be sold in Japan and Southeast Asia.

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Speaker 2: Vietnam is an example in Latin America that came about

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Speaker 2: as a result of this leverage. These are all positive

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Speaker 2: things that have come out of this leverage, and that

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Speaker 2: is not discussed. Meaning more market access for American products.

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Speaker 2: That is a significant headline that rarely ever gets reported.

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Speaker 1: They knew, I think, down deep, that what was ruled

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Speaker 1: yesterday was a real possibility. They being the administration, So

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Speaker 1: my guess is best at Treasury and Lutnik at Commerce,

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Speaker 1: they knew that when one and if that came down,

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Speaker 1: They knew about these other avenues open toward them. It

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Speaker 1: would surprise me if those other avenues aren't accessed almost immediately.

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Speaker 1: Would it surprise you.

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Speaker 2: Not at all? I think I think the administration has

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Speaker 2: been ready for this for months. And what I mean

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Speaker 2: by that is I was hearing Treasury Secretary Vessett and

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Speaker 2: Kevin Hassett on the National Economic Council talking about other

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Speaker 2: options that were on the table. They talked about two

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Speaker 2: thirty two three oh one one twenty two. Uh. And

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Speaker 2: they were ready if and when this happened. But I think,

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Speaker 2: you know, while publicly they said, you know, they expected

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Speaker 2: it to go the other way, I think they were

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Speaker 2: skeptical that was going to go their way, but they

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Speaker 2: were ready to go when this happened yesterday. And the

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Speaker 2: other thing that I would add too, Ken, when we

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Speaker 2: looked at the stock market yesterday, did you notice what happened? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: the stock walket went up. It didn't go down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it started going up. It started going up exponentially.

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Speaker 1: When the President started talking. It had waxed and waned

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Speaker 1: in triple day and then it went it went red

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Speaker 1: for a little bit. The minute he started talking. You

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Speaker 1: had green triple digits both in the S and P

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Speaker 1: and the Nasdaq. And I'm sorry, in the doll and

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Speaker 1: the Nasdaq and the S and P I think was

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Speaker 1: plus forty plus forty five. So yeah, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think the I think and again I don't want this

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Speaker 1: to be lost in the conversation at all, Dan, I

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Speaker 1: think the one thing the markets hate is uncertainty. Well,

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Speaker 1: okay to me, to them, this was a degree of certainty,

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Speaker 1: and the certainty lies in previous law that that Trump

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Speaker 1: now and as smart guys can follow. I think I

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Speaker 1: think that's another headline here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it absolutely is a headline. But the other

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Speaker 2: thing I want to share with you is I think

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Speaker 2: markets expected this to happen, and they've been expecting this

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Speaker 2: to happen for months, and that's why I think the

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Speaker 2: market is up. Also, in addition, you know, it's just

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Speaker 2: but troubled. It was up tripled digits yesterday and in

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Speaker 2: large purpocuse they expected it. And you're right, say, like

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Speaker 2: certainty and now there is certainty that there will be

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Speaker 2: no material change on President Trump's parent policy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Dan Barney's our guest. I had him as a

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Speaker 1: financial investor. I think you were an economist the last

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Speaker 1: time I had you on the year. I mean, your

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Speaker 1: resume grows every time you're all with me. These are

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Speaker 1: financial strategists. It does, though, bring us back to the

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Speaker 1: initial question, and that is the people that had been

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Speaker 1: affected by the tariffs, good and bad, we'll just say,

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Speaker 1: the people that had to pay more. It might have

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Speaker 1: been you, it might have been me for goods and

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Speaker 1: services that were from other countries. Those countries. Now there

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Speaker 1: has to be some sort of money's and renuneration made

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Speaker 1: to them. My point being is who gets paid now?

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Speaker 1: I mean, are we getting a check from the federal government?

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Speaker 1: And by the way, where's the federal government getting the

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Speaker 1: money to repay everybody? Because last I checked, we were

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Speaker 1: like thirty seven trillion in debt.

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Speaker 2: Thirty eight trillion. Who's camping. Yeah, So what I would

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Speaker 2: say to you is that who gets paid and how

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Speaker 2: they get paid will be resolved at a lower court.

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Speaker 2: That part of the issue was romanded to the lower

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Speaker 2: court to figure out, and my sense is that could

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Speaker 2: take weeks, months or years to untangled. So I don't

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Speaker 2: think that's happening anytime soon. But I hear the list

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Speaker 2: is growing. They're well over one thousand of looking for

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Speaker 2: you know, we want our money back. Absolutely understand that.

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Speaker 2: I think it's just going to take time to untangle it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. It's of course, reading the tea leaves

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Speaker 1: with any court, whether it be a local, municipal court

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Speaker 1: in this case, the Supreme Court is often a fool's game.

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Speaker 1: But I just looked at the majority opinion. It was

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Speaker 1: about a page and a half and then the descent

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Speaker 1: that was written by Clarence Thomas and ht Kavanaugh and

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Speaker 1: Sam Alito. It was rather in depth and lengthy. I

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Speaker 1: just think the Supreme Court one of this thing off.

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Speaker 1: I think that that's why they agonized for six months.

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Speaker 1: They took a straw vote, and it was like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: here's six no's, here's three and a's, and the three

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Speaker 1: and a's went to town. But I think I don't

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Speaker 1: think the Supreme Court really in the first place wanted

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Speaker 1: to take this thing up, but they had to because

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Speaker 1: it landed on their desk.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm positive they did not want to have to

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Speaker 2: take it up. And I will tell you, typically, when

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Speaker 2: the President of the United States ESKD for emergency authorization

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Speaker 2: to do something, the Supreme Court will grant it. So

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Speaker 2: from my perspective, that was a surprise. But what wasn't

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Speaker 2: a surprise to me is that markets reacted favorably. It

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Speaker 2: wasn't a surprise to me that the administration had to

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Speaker 2: go forward strategy and they were already implementing it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, we'll see how it all plays out. I

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Speaker 1: think you're right, it's going to be years, I think

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Speaker 1: before they figure out who gets and what. But to me,

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Speaker 1: it was just they may know the law, but the

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Speaker 1: Court doesn't understand economics. And maybe that's good, maybe that's bad.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but I do know you do understand economics.

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Speaker 1: My guess is you're more fluent in law than they

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Speaker 1: are in economics. And anytime we ring, you're happy to

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Speaker 1: come on. And we like Dan Veroni out here on

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Speaker 1: the great Midwest, and Dan, you stay well and you

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Speaker 1: know we'll be in touch.

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Speaker 2: Thanks, thanks so much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Trump Pot wasn't unclear about voicing his displeasure with

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. They asked him at his news conference afterwards,

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Speaker 1: are you going to invite them to your State of

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Speaker 1: the Union speech this coming Tuesday. He looked out at

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Speaker 1: the reporters and he said barely, barely, maybe not. I

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Speaker 1: don't care if they come. And then the next thing

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Speaker 1: he did was imposed a worldwide ten percent tariff. So

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Speaker 1: he's not going quietly into the good night. There's a

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Speaker 1: section one twenty two. I guess of the Fair Trade

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Speaker 1: Act is that what this is? Section two. It's called

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Speaker 1: the balance of payment, which allows a president like Trump

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Speaker 1: to temporarily enforce tariffs or import quotas in certain situations.

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Speaker 1: They're probably walking down that road, although that has not

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Speaker 1: been tested in a court of law. Extensively, the law

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Speaker 1: still provides in a mechanism for the Commerce Department to

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Speaker 1: determine when a good is being dumped on the US

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Speaker 1: consumers or whether a foreign country is unfairly subsidizing an

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Speaker 1: export to the US, and to respond with tariffs. Bottom line,

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Speaker 1: I think on all of this, I think if he

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Speaker 1: wants to get anything meaningfully done, he's got to playball

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Speaker 1: with the Congress. That's not going to be an easy thing.

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Speaker 1: The House, the Senate, they're not a real position right now,

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Speaker 1: nor do they have a real appetite to take this

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Speaker 1: up in an election year. But I think Trump now

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Speaker 1: will unleash all kinds of things from a tariff standpoint

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Speaker 1: that he thinks is legal. And stand by for the lawyers.

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Speaker 1: They are the only ones that are going to get rich.

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Speaker 1: Stand By for the lawyers on renumeration. For you, me

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Speaker 1: and any company, small business or otherwise, there will be

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Speaker 1: lawyers and it will take time, all right. You see,

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Speaker 1: basketball is next against Kansas City tomorrow morning at nine am.

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Speaker 1: We'll have Sunday Morning Sports Talk for you right then

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Speaker 1: here on the home of your Cincinnati Red seven hundred

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Speaker 1: WLW