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Speaker 1: All right back to where we go and joining me. Now,

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Speaker 1: we've had this fell on several times, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about new construction home building. Jeff Wheeling from

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Speaker 1: Wheeling Builders, Jeff, welcome, good morning here.

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Speaker 2: How are you.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing fine. I'm doing fine. So we're talking to

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Speaker 1: a lot of people across the country right now. But

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Speaker 1: you are a and your family has been involved in

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Speaker 1: custom home building for how many years?

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Speaker 2: If you dated back to my grandfathers, we're probably talking

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Speaker 2: more than seventy five years of the homes just here

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Speaker 2: in southwest Ohio.

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Speaker 1: Well, so I don't know where to start, but I

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Speaker 1: got a lot of questions, you know, home building, and

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Speaker 1: you see this and we're all hearing stuff on the news.

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Speaker 1: I just kind of wanted to go right right right

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Speaker 1: to the horses mouth and get what's what's going on,

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Speaker 1: what the trials, what the tribulations, what's the great things

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Speaker 1: going on? But home building really does drive our economy

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Speaker 1: across the United States? Do you agree with that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I absolutely agree with it. You know, I think

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Speaker 2: that if you talk to every industry, if you talk

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Speaker 2: to the truck drivers, if you talk to the food industry,

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Speaker 2: and then you talk to those people. They all believe

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Speaker 2: that they probably lead the United States as well. But

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Speaker 2: as far as jobs, and I don't have the exact

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Speaker 2: data right, but you know, when I'm build a house,

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Speaker 2: we have data that says that there's probably over three

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty people who work on that house and

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Speaker 2: at given time. And then if you take it back

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Speaker 2: to all the way back to all of the county officials,

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Speaker 2: all of the inspectors, all of the truck drivers, all

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Speaker 2: of the architects, all the people that led it up

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Speaker 2: to that point, it's even more so it is it's

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Speaker 2: a ton of people who work in the industry.

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Speaker 1: You get into furniture makers, hardware stores, to supply houses.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it touches. It touches a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: It touches a lot of people. And you you're a

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Speaker 1: custom home builder, explain the difference between a custom home

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Speaker 1: builder and a track home builder.

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Speaker 2: Favorite question ever, because I think the word custom gets

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Speaker 2: tossed around a lot, like a lot of other industries

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Speaker 2: have words to get tossed around, and the cattle business

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Speaker 2: people tossed around the angus word all the time, and

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Speaker 2: it doesn't really need anything. So custom to me is

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Speaker 2: what we do is start from a blank sheet of

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Speaker 2: paper design, build, picking all of the ideas. We're building

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Speaker 2: a house specifically for somebody. But we don't build market houses,

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Speaker 2: we don't build neighborhoods. We're not developers. And this is

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Speaker 2: specifically what we're here for. And and you could say

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Speaker 2: that's the best house that was ever built because it

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Speaker 2: was built specifically for those people. Every decision, every dimension,

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Speaker 2: every color, every every flooring, floor covering next to your

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Speaker 2: wall covering has made decisions together with the builder and

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Speaker 2: the customer. And and that's what it means to me.

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Speaker 2: I think where it gets misconstrued at is where people

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Speaker 2: are saying, hey, what we're custom and they're making a

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Speaker 2: few modifications to a standard plan, or they're building on

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Speaker 2: your lot, or you know, they call them semi custom,

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Speaker 2: which again I don't understand that word either either.

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Speaker 1: You already aren't used.

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Speaker 2: And so there's a lot of different things. But it

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Speaker 2: has to be specific for that customer, drawn from scratch.

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Speaker 2: Whereas in neighborhoods where you have where I call them

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Speaker 2: neighborhood houses trying to be nice not call them in

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Speaker 2: production house. And those are houses where you go into

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Speaker 2: a model, uh, you, you choose from a number of

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Speaker 2: floor plans, you choose from a number of standard options,

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Speaker 2: and they put your plane together and you know, probably

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Speaker 2: six months later you have a house. So it's a

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Speaker 2: completely different process allogether.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say something and correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I was just when you're listening to you,

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Speaker 1: I was just thinking, maybe a custom home builder is

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Speaker 1: a little more creative, a little more artistic, a little

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Speaker 1: more price isn't addressing isn't driving the sale. I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying it's not important, but it's not driving the sale.

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Speaker 1: Maybe a neighborhood housing project price is driving the sale

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Speaker 1: more so. And yeah, I think the semi custom means

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Speaker 1: maybe you can have a brown roof instead of a

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Speaker 1: black roof. Maybe you can't. It depends on what the

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Speaker 1: hoa says. But do you think that's a good good

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Speaker 1: way of describing it.

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Speaker 2: I think that again, budget gets misconstrued with customs because

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Speaker 2: on a five million dollar house, we still have a

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Speaker 2: budget and it will be within the confines of it.

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Speaker 2: And and I think the same thing for neighborhood houses.

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Speaker 2: They're trying to hit a specific target to where they

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Speaker 2: are going to open up the opportunity for as many

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Speaker 2: people to buy that house in that target market. Right.

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Speaker 2: And I remember when I was president of the Homeboilding Association,

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Speaker 2: we had data that said every time the price of

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Speaker 2: a house went up one thousand dollars, there was so

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Speaker 2: many people that couldn't afford to build that house anymore.

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Speaker 2: Those are the production builders. They rely heavily on the

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Speaker 2: market and what the interest rate is doing because that

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Speaker 2: affects the person's payment and whether or not they can

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Speaker 2: afford that house. Whereas in custom yet you know, it's

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Speaker 2: it's it's more of a situation where it's not necessarily

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Speaker 2: budget driven, but it's what the customer wants driven. There

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Speaker 2: aren't options, there's there's customer desires, there's not upgrades, it's

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Speaker 2: what it's just what the people pick. So everything, everything

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Speaker 2: gets driven on what the customer wants and not necessarily

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Speaker 2: what they can they can afford. But again you have to,

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Speaker 2: you know, the builder, we always have to be good

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Speaker 2: stewards of the people's money and making sure that we're

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Speaker 2: putting into good use as whatever they're looking for.

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Speaker 1: So that was and that that says it very well.

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Speaker 1: Thank you you As a custom home builder, what's the

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Speaker 1: biggest part of your job you think? I mean, because

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Speaker 1: if I'm a homeowner and I want to custom build home,

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Speaker 1: and who doesn't, I better get a builder. We're on

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Speaker 1: the same page. I mean, that sounds very simple. But

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Speaker 1: what what do you feel like the most important role

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Speaker 1: you play in your business? I know you have seventy.

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Speaker 2: But but you but you hit on it. I think

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Speaker 2: that the most and that's not necessarily the most important

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Speaker 2: role that I play, but the relationship between my company

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Speaker 2: and our customers. And you know, there are people who

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Speaker 2: are not meant in this world to build house and

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Speaker 2: they need to just go by an existing house. And

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Speaker 2: that's why market houses are really a good option. Resale

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Speaker 2: is a really good option for people. And I'm not

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Speaker 2: saying that to be mean. I'm saying, hey, there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of decisions, and there's a lot of time and effort.

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Speaker 2: And when I sit down with people, the first thing

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Speaker 2: I say is they always say, hey, how long does

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Speaker 2: it take you to build a house like that? And

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Speaker 2: I say, don't worry about how long it takes us

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Speaker 2: to build this house. Let's talk about how much time

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Speaker 2: you have to dedicate to this project. Because we need

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Speaker 2: a ton of time from you, and not everybody's prepared

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Speaker 2: for that. So people really need to understand that that

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Speaker 2: dedication and that time commitment in there. But you know,

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Speaker 2: it's really important that you align with your builder and

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Speaker 2: that you guys have a really good relationship if there's

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Speaker 2: something that's off between it, and it's no different than

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Speaker 2: any other relationship that you have in your life, if

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Speaker 2: there's something that's off in that relationship, because it's a

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Speaker 2: long term relationship, especially in custom building. You know where

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Speaker 2: you are in the design phase for probably six seven

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Speaker 2: months times a couple of years you're building. We are

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Speaker 2: building this house together, you know, probably for twelve to

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Speaker 2: sixteen months, and then you have a warranty period and

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Speaker 2: then you know, my goal is always to be able

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Speaker 2: to still have this friendly relationship with these customers where

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Speaker 2: we're talking to each other. You know, we've gotten into

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Speaker 2: now where we continue to come back and work for

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Speaker 2: the families over and over again, doing different things for them.

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Speaker 2: I want to build that relationship and keep it going.

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Speaker 2: So that's that's another really important part. But if we

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Speaker 2: don't want our customers, I'm only can speak for as

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Speaker 2: Wheeland builders. I don't want my customers to come in

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Speaker 2: and be transactional and say hey, what's your price for

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Speaker 2: square foot?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: And well, yeah, there's so many other factors.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you say, some people maybe it's not cut

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Speaker 1: out for, but there's probably other people that really get

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Speaker 1: into it.

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Speaker 2: Passion, It's time. Passion and money is what I talk

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Speaker 2: to people about all the time. And that time commitment

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Speaker 2: is what we just talked about, passion being one of

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Speaker 2: the most important parts because I want you involved. I

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Speaker 2: want you making decisions. I want you looking up things

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Speaker 2: and bringing them to us and saying, hey, what if

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Speaker 2: we did this, or what if we did this, and

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Speaker 2: and coming up with ideas and and just really invested

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Speaker 2: into it. And that's what makes the project really cool,

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Speaker 2: you know, and uh and making it exciting and making

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Speaker 2: it theirs.

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Speaker 1: Well, Jeff, I've known you for many years and your

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Speaker 1: family doing custom home building and stuff. I'm sure you've

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Speaker 1: got more than a couple of families that you build

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Speaker 1: a house for and turned around and build a house again.

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Speaker 2: We do and and and it's really I love that

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Speaker 2: part of it because it's a there's nothing that you

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Speaker 2: can hang your hat on better than and somebody coming

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Speaker 2: back to you and wanting to work with you again.

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Speaker 2: But then there's you know, in our line of work,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of crazy, but we built on these larger

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Speaker 2: acre sites, so there's opportunity for other buildings to be

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Speaker 2: built on the site. And now we're come back and

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Speaker 2: we're building another detached for as, we're building another poolhouse.

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Speaker 2: We're building another U right now on our umamahouse from

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, are building an in law suite on

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Speaker 2: the back of it. It's attached to the house. So

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Speaker 2: there's other opportunities and may continue to want us to

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Speaker 2: come back and do those things. And I really take

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Speaker 2: a lot of pride in that.

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Speaker 1: Sure. Jeff Wheling, he's my guess. He's with Wheeland Builders. U.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a little break and if I can keep

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Speaker 1: you about another ten minutes, I want to get you

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Speaker 1: to give us your take on the status of the

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Speaker 1: building industry, the demand, workforce and sound good to you?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely all right, very good, Jeff, Thank you. We'll take

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Speaker 1: that break. You're at home with Gary Sullivan. Help for your.

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Speaker 3: Home is just a click away at Garysullivan online dot com.

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Speaker 3: This is at home with Gary Sullivan.

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Speaker 1: solutions and ideas. I hope you're enjoying our conversation. Jeff

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Speaker 1: Wheeling is might guess he's with Wheeling Custom Builders and

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Speaker 1: he builds custom homes and boy, uh, Jeff, I guess

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Speaker 1: this is a wide open question. But your take on

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Speaker 1: the state of the building industry. I know that's a

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Speaker 1: huge question. But where where is everything at?

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Speaker 2: You know, I think it's been a good shot. I

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Speaker 2: mean I one of my mentors h forever only told

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Speaker 2: me you pay attention to your own economy and don't

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Speaker 2: pay attention to anybody else's. And Wheeling Builders weren't really

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Speaker 2: busy and that, and I think that that's just a

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Speaker 2: method of the way we do things and the opportunity

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Speaker 2: that we've opened ourselves up to to be in a

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Speaker 2: market at Southwest Ohio, not just in a certain neighborhood

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Speaker 2: or something. I think that if I look around, you

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Speaker 2: know where we live in Lebanon, and if I look

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Speaker 2: around Lebanon and see I have constant conversations with our

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Speaker 2: superintendent there and he gets a report of how many

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Speaker 2: different developments are going in in the city limits in

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Speaker 2: the townships that affect the school. And if I look

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Speaker 2: at that list, the building industry is on fire. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's amazing how much stuff is happening and going on,

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Speaker 2: even though the woes that are faced with it when

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Speaker 2: you think about pricing, when you think about interest rate,

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Speaker 2: things are still happening on a daily basis. So I

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Speaker 2: think it's in a I think it's in a space

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Speaker 2: there where it fits in between. It's it's riding along,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's not failing and it's not going crazy.

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Speaker 2: So it's something that I think Bill would would dream

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Speaker 2: of to keep a consistent learning on that market.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, were our country is in a lot of spaces

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Speaker 1: and a lot of different economies. I love your mentor's

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Speaker 1: take on its work about your economy. My daughter lives

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Speaker 1: in Charlotte. Every time I go down there, there's like

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Speaker 1: fifteen more huge, massive high rise condo developments, And where

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Speaker 1: I'm in Integrator Cincinnati area, there's condo developments, but they're same.

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Speaker 1: There's all kinds of land that's being built on residential areas, homes,

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Speaker 1: and so I kind of agree with you. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we hear maybe you know, nothing's ever perfect. Not everybody

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Speaker 1: can get what we want, But it seems like the

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Speaker 1: building industry is on fire.

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Speaker 2: That condo apartment building thing. I think that that really

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Speaker 2: comes from a couple of different facts. One is, you know,

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Speaker 2: when you look back at the recession where people were

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Speaker 2: losing everything, every everything they had, including their house, they

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Speaker 2: didn't want to get into a situation like that, so

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Speaker 2: they were starting to rent. And then the other part

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Speaker 2: of it is is that these parents want to live

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Speaker 2: next to or close to their grand baby and that

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Speaker 2: they're moving to. They want to have another place that

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Speaker 2: they can go to as a vacation destination, and they

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Speaker 2: want to have a place that they can live close

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Speaker 2: to their kids. And I think that that is something

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Speaker 2: that people are really caught ontore. And then and then

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Speaker 2: this whole walkability deal that people talk about, you know

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Speaker 2: where they tried it in Cincinnati and and but you

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Speaker 2: know they sprawl out and you go to Liberty Town

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Speaker 2: Center and you go to different areas where you can

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Speaker 2: live in a condo. You can walk downstairs and walk

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Speaker 2: down and go to restaurants, go to bars, ice cream,

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Speaker 2: whatever you want entertainment, and it's it's all walkable. So

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Speaker 2: I think all of those things play into that big

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Speaker 2: condo apartment complex buility.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well there's nothing wrong. Cultures and things change, right,

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Speaker 1: But I don't see the residential buildings slowing down any either.

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Speaker 1: So maybe if we're just you know, grabbing more cultural

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Speaker 1: things at different segments and different generations, and that's been

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Speaker 1: going on for a long time, I think.

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Speaker 2: So as any business owner, you have to watch the economy.

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Speaker 2: You have to watch what's happening around you, in which

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Speaker 2: direction it's going, and trying to see if see if

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Speaker 2: something like that adapts to your numbers.

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Speaker 1: We've all heard for the last ten years in a

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Speaker 1: workforce workforce, a lot of people retiring. We're getting a

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Speaker 1: lot of companies working, bringing in new people into the workforce,

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Speaker 1: and we hear people grumbling there's not enough workforce in construction.

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Speaker 1: Is that beginning to change?

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Speaker 2: Well, there's there's always been a workforce, but it's the

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Speaker 2: skilled workforce that we need. It's the people who understand

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Speaker 2: specific methods of construction. So we need into your turn carpenters,

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Speaker 2: we need painters, we need you know, people who can

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Speaker 2: operate equipment. You know that those specific skill sets need

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Speaker 2: to be there. Or you know what I always tell

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Speaker 2: people is you need to have the drive to be

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Speaker 2: able to want to learn to do it. And if

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Speaker 2: you have the drive, you know, a hungry, humble and smart.

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Speaker 2: If you have if you're hungry to figure this out,

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Speaker 2: then you're going to be able to do just about

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Speaker 2: anything you want to do. And so that's really what

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Speaker 2: we're We have plenty of workforce, but we need the

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Speaker 2: people who are who have a desire to learn and

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Speaker 2: a desire to want to continue to work in the

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Speaker 2: construction industry. And once again, you know, if you look

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Speaker 2: back at the recession, and I know this was a

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Speaker 2: long time ago, but you know, Colorado State University was

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Speaker 2: one of the people who said it best and said, hey,

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Speaker 2: we used to have nine hundred kids in our in

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Speaker 2: our construction program. Now we have forty. Because they saw

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Speaker 2: what people went through and their businesses, and they saw

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Speaker 2: what their parents went through or whoever it was. And

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Speaker 2: it was tough to get people back into the construction

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Speaker 2: industry because it took such a fall and hurt a

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Speaker 2: lot of people, and so that that was a struggle.

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Speaker 2: Now we're getting back to the point where we have

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Speaker 2: a ton of people back in the school trying to

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Speaker 2: learn about the construction business. And I think that trade

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Speaker 2: schools and you know, if you're if you have any

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Speaker 2: inkling to work with your hems right now, you could

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Speaker 2: go be a plumber and electrician heating their conditioning contractor

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Speaker 2: and equipment operator. And you're going to be so super

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Speaker 2: successful in life. It's gonna it's gonna be amazing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I with you there. Tariffs, we hear about that.

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Speaker 1: How yeah, I know, But how's that working for you?

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Speaker 1: You're lumber? It's all over the place, it seems like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, is it's kind of go with the flow.

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Speaker 2: I think I think President Trump has a desire to

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Speaker 2: to make sure that people quit messing with the United

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Speaker 2: States and that the United States is in charge. And

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Speaker 2: so in order to be that, you have a business

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Speaker 2: method and and you know, you don't have to agree

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Speaker 2: with it, but you have to see the long term

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Speaker 2: goals of it. And and so that's one part of it.

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Speaker 2: But then these tariffs, it doesn't if you don't wake

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Speaker 2: up on morning and go, We're gonna put a tariff

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Speaker 2: on this. It's the threat of the terraff, right, and

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Speaker 2: then you have to be where of it. So the

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Speaker 2: only the only time, the only thing I can say

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Speaker 2: is anytime we get up against something like this, where

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Speaker 2: there's severe threat of price increases or or something's going

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Speaker 2: to happen, you have to bounce back to question. So

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Speaker 2: so my stone guy can't call me up and say, hey,

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Speaker 2: we got a price increase on our stone and it's

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Speaker 2: going to be thirty percent. Well, let's let's hold on

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Speaker 2: a minute. What does that increase consist of? Is it

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Speaker 2: only on that stone material. It's not on your mortar,

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Speaker 2: it's not on your nails, it's not on your labor,

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Speaker 2: it's not on your profit. And and let's understand what

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Speaker 2: that looks like. And the same thing with an electrician,

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Speaker 2: and the same thing with so one day we got

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Speaker 2: a call from from our plumbing supply house and Kohler said, hey,

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Speaker 2: we're getting these tariffs and you have to buy all

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Speaker 2: of your pictures today. Well for us, that's a couple

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Speaker 2: of hundred thousand dollars. And I said, well, wait a minute,

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Speaker 2: I want to see a letter from President Trump that

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Speaker 2: told it tells us that the tariff is in enacted

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Speaker 2: today and it's going to be this much money on

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Speaker 2: this particular faucet. And of course I'm the pain in

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Speaker 2: the butt and they don't like that, but.

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Speaker 1: It's it's true. So where you've got to go with

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Speaker 1: the low.

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Speaker 2: So three days later lo and behold, yeah, here and

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Speaker 2: and well, it's going to be coming. It's going to

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Speaker 2: be coming, and we haven't seen it yet, so I

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Speaker 2: think that it's it's definitely something that is in his program.

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Speaker 2: That's that's setting America up to operate in a different manner,

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Speaker 2: but we're going to have to take some hits to

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Speaker 2: get there. I haven't felt it just yet. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's a couple of people who say it and then

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Speaker 2: we go back and start investigating it and then you

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Speaker 2: don't really see it too much. But I definitely think

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Speaker 2: the threat is there, but we haven't felt it just yet.

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Speaker 1: Great answer, Jeff, Thank you so much for your time today.

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Speaker 1: I certainly appreciate And if you don't mind, I'd like

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Speaker 1: to touch base a few times. As winter comes in

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Speaker 1: and maybe things slow a little bit, maybe we can

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Speaker 1: have a little segment and we kind of touch base

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Speaker 1: every now and then.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, anytime you want, Gary, I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Thank you all right, Jeff, Thanks, thanks a bunch. It's

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Speaker 1: Jeff Wheeling with Wheeling Builders out of the Greater Cincinnati area.

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Speaker 1: If you ever want to touch base and talk to

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Speaker 1: a true builder, custom home builder Willing Holmes, I certainly

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Speaker 1: would highly recommend. Jeff's a great guy. All right, let

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Speaker 1: me give you the phone number. Let's chat about your home.

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Speaker 1: It's eight hundred eight two three eight two five five

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Speaker 1: and you're at home with Gary Sullivan.

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Speaker 3: No time to get your hands dirty with Gary Sullivan.

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Speaker 3: Give him a call at one eight hundred eighty two

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Speaker 3: three talk. You're at home with Gary Sullivan.