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Speaker 1: You're listening to KFI A six on demand.

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Speaker 2: Well, it is a Thursday morning, December the eighth, and

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Speaker 2: before we get to Joel real quickly some of the

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Speaker 2: stories we're looking at, of course, the shooting yesterday in Minneapolis,

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Speaker 2: and they'll be being talked about for the rest of

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Speaker 2: the day. Also, the United States boarded yet another tanker,

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Speaker 2: confiscated another tanker in the part of the shadow fleet

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Speaker 2: coming out of Venezuela that has the oil. I didn't

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Speaker 2: know this, but of those three, do you have any

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Speaker 2: idea how many shadow tankers are out there? These are

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Speaker 2: tankers that obviously they onload oil and millions of barrels

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Speaker 2: a couple of million barrels at a time or a

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Speaker 2: million barrels at a time, and then they're sold to

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Speaker 2: Russia and China, and Russia then has.

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Speaker 1: Its own How many do you think there are, Joel?

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Speaker 2: If you had to guess how many of these shadow tankers,

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Speaker 2: illegal tankers, sanctioned oil that hide everything they can.

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Speaker 1: How many? How many would you guess?

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Speaker 3: Thirty two?

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Speaker 2: One thousand? No, Yeah, according to the Wall Street Journal,

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Speaker 2: a thousand.

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Speaker 3: That's hard.

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Speaker 1: I know, stunning, stunning, isn't it? Okay?

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Speaker 2: Joel large guard How to Money every Sunday twelve to

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Speaker 2: two pm right here on KFI how to Money Joel.

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Speaker 2: He that's his social address at how to Money Joel

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Speaker 2: and the website howdomoney dot com. All right, Joel, we

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Speaker 2: have a lot going on to talk about. One of

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Speaker 2: them is where President Trump and Gavin Newsom agree with

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Speaker 2: each other. It's the only thing I think they agree with,

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Speaker 2: and that's banning large investors from buying single family homes.

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Speaker 2: And yesterday I was talking to Lindsey and we were

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Speaker 2: talking about investors buying up a proper parties land in

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Speaker 2: the Pacific Palisades and I'm going to be flipping it.

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Speaker 1: That really hurts affordability. So what's going on with that?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So, I mean this is one of those things

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Speaker 4: that in the aftermath of the Great Recession and the

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Speaker 4: housing crash, we started to see more Wall Street corporatized

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Speaker 4: buying of single family homes, not just oneing of like

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Speaker 4: apartment complexes, but buying up single family home stock, specifically

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Speaker 4: in some cities in particular, like you're talking about Atlanta, Philadelphia,

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Speaker 4: Tampa being like some of those markets.

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Speaker 3: And it's just I mean.

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Speaker 4: I'd obviously done incredibly well from a return perspective, because

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Speaker 4: you've seen what's happened with housing over the past twelve

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Speaker 4: to fifteen years. But then you look at the ripple effects,

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Speaker 4: and some people say it's not that big of a deal.

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Speaker 4: Corporate ownership with single family homes is like four percent

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Speaker 4: of the overall housing stock. But in some markets in particular,

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Speaker 4: like it has, especially in the starter home space, it's

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Speaker 4: really depleted that supply and it's part of what's made

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Speaker 4: it more expensive and much harder for young people to

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Speaker 4: get into a starter room to buy their first place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not talking about flipping properties that these companies

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Speaker 2: are engaged in.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about buying these homes and then renting them out.

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Speaker 1: Do I have that right?

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Speaker 3: That's right?

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Speaker 4: And there's obviously problems with any landlord from time to time. Right,

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Speaker 4: Not every landlord is perfect, even if you're with a

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Speaker 4: mom and pop landlord, sometimes they're awesome.

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Speaker 3: There's some really great mom and pop landlords out there who.

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Speaker 4: Treat their tenants well, and then there are others who

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Speaker 4: just don't do a good job right, who were not

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Speaker 4: very responsive, don't keep their properties up. When you look

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Speaker 4: though at some of the big corporate Wall Street type landlords.

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Speaker 4: There are a lot of complaints against some of them.

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Speaker 4: There's Invitation Homes in particular is one of the biggest ones,

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Speaker 4: and it has just had copious complaints. And so when

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Speaker 4: you look at like, what's the impact of this going

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Speaker 4: to be one, how's this going to come about? Is

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Speaker 4: this going to be some sort of active congress, which

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Speaker 4: is what it seems like it would have to be

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Speaker 4: because right now this is again like sort of a dictate.

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Speaker 3: Via social media.

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Speaker 4: But if this comes to pass and Wall Street landlords

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Speaker 4: are forced to liquidate some of that supply or to

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Speaker 4: at least stop sucking up more of it, it's at

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Speaker 4: least a being it's a dent into housing affordability. I

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Speaker 4: think it is a positive step at least from a

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Speaker 4: consumer standpoint.

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Speaker 2: And we'll see the possibility of federal law because a

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Speaker 2: lot of these are companies that buy in various states,

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Speaker 2: not just a single state. And then local California law

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Speaker 2: that's I'm going to, I guess pick up the rest.

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Speaker 2: So kind of interesting that both of them, by the way,

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Speaker 2: just real quickly aside story is I'm one of those

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Speaker 2: landlords that I was a great, great landlord which is

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Speaker 2: why I got rid of the duplexes I had and

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Speaker 2: the duplex I bought. I had two of them when

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Speaker 2: I lived in. When I rented was built in nineteen

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Speaker 2: twenty seven and tenants had destroyed it. Basically, I went

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Speaker 2: and bought it, and it went crazy to bring it

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Speaker 2: back to what it was, so it looked like it

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Speaker 2: was brand new. You're walking in the door in nineteen

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Speaker 2: twenty seven. And I spent a fortune and I treated

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Speaker 2: our tenants that way, and it was so expensive and

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Speaker 2: so obnoxious.

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Speaker 1: I just bailed. I couldn't take it anymore.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the landmarding is not for the faint of part

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Speaker 4: And some people assume that landlords just all make money

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Speaker 4: handover fists, and the truth is, for most mom and

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Speaker 4: pop landlords, it is a part of a long term

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Speaker 4: well building strategy. It's not like they're getting rich overnight.

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Speaker 4: And it's a highly risky endeavor, and especially in the

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Speaker 4: market right now, like if you bought a house recently.

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Speaker 4: Talking about this all the time, with how the money listeners,

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Speaker 4: it's like, it's really hard to make it as a

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Speaker 4: new landlord right now given kind of the macroeconomic state

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Speaker 4: of things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really difficult, and I certainly wasn't making any

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Speaker 2: money at it because I kept it up and you know,

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Speaker 2: I gave the tenant here's a phone number of a

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Speaker 2: plumber if anything happens, here's no electrician.

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Speaker 1: And frankly, they were taking way too much advantage of that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so so much for the Trump allied with Gavin Newsom.

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Speaker 1: Go figure that one out.

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Speaker 2: So joel LA and rent controls, let's talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, fun times.

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Speaker 4: This is this is just one of those things where

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Speaker 4: I understand the impulse right to say rents are really high,

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Speaker 4: how are we going to protect renters out there?

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Speaker 3: And so often the.

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Speaker 4: Political impulse is to say we're going to cap rent increases.

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Speaker 3: And so that's there's been.

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Speaker 4: This update essentially to rent control and how much many

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Speaker 4: apartments in the LA area are allowed to raise rents

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Speaker 4: in a given year. And so now instead of something

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Speaker 4: like three to eight percent being decapping the most that

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Speaker 4: landlords can get every single year, now it's down like

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Speaker 4: between one and four percent, depends on kind of what's

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Speaker 4: happening with inflation. And this is one of the things

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Speaker 4: I mean, when you survey economists who of all different

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Speaker 4: stripes rent control is never a popular thing with economists,

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Speaker 4: and it's because of the long term impacts typically that

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Speaker 4: rent control has, Like it has these beautiful short term

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Speaker 4: gains for renters, but over time it disincentivizes landlords from

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Speaker 4: keeping up with their properties. It disincentivizes building. And let's

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Speaker 4: be honest, like, at the heart of the problem around

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Speaker 4: a lot of the country and specifically in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 4: at the heart of the problem is that we just

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Speaker 4: don't have enough units and we need to be better

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Speaker 4: at incentivizing building. That's going to help bring costs down

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Speaker 4: truly over time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, with the lack of housing, and that seems to

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Speaker 2: be the biggest, biggest issue is there just ain't enough.

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Speaker 2: And when you don't have enough of anything, obviously it

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Speaker 2: gets more expensive. And so that becomes a problem of

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Speaker 2: its own making that if the government doesn't allow, doesn't push,

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Speaker 2: doesn't give money, doesn't give grants, doesn't give loans to

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Speaker 2: and then laws to help builders, of course it's going

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Speaker 2: to get insanely expensive. And so go ahead.

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Speaker 4: I'm just saying, you can look at the history of

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Speaker 4: what happens in places in cities that inact stuff like this,

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Speaker 4: like Saint Paul Minnesota is one of those places that

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Speaker 4: had incredibly restrictive rank control laws and it just it

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Speaker 4: just disincentivized new construction. And you see what happens like

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Speaker 4: in a city next door where they don't have the

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Speaker 4: same rank control laws, and there's just not the same

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Speaker 4: There is more new housing being built. And then those

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Speaker 4: cities often go back and they end up losing some

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Speaker 4: of those rank control offs because they realize that the

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Speaker 4: short term benefit, the short term political benefit, doesn't worth

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Speaker 4: the long term costs.

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Speaker 2: Now you're looking at the other side, right on a

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Speaker 2: capitalism system, return of investment building, right, that's a negative.

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Speaker 2: And then you have renters that simply can't afford to rent.

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Speaker 2: They can't come here southern California. They have to move

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Speaker 2: someplace else, which, by the way, is not the end

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Speaker 2: of the world for a lot of us who live

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Speaker 2: here because there's too many people anyway.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's a problem either way.

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Speaker 2: That is, it seems almost insurmountable, and it's a question

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Speaker 2: of just choosing either a bad situation or a worse situation.

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Speaker 2: There doesn't seem to be a win on this one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think that there's a lot of

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Speaker 4: trick to that. There was like literally an article this

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Speaker 4: week in the Watter Journal about how people are choosing

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Speaker 4: to move to the Midwest because they can actually pord

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Speaker 4: a home there, And so, yeah, I would love to

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Speaker 4: see in some of the most desirable places to live,

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Speaker 4: Los Angeles being one of those, New York City being another.

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Speaker 4: Wouldn't it just be nice to see housing policy keep

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Speaker 4: up with people's desires to live in a place, so that,

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Speaker 4: of course, in a place like Los Angeles, it makes

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Speaker 4: sense the rents are going to be higher than they

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Speaker 4: are in random place in Iowa, right, I mean, it

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Speaker 4: just makes sense. There's an attractive it's an attractive place

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Speaker 4: to live, there's access to high paying jobs, really really

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Speaker 4: great jobs, it's a great quality of life. So in

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Speaker 4: some ways it just makes sense it's going to cost

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Speaker 4: more to live there. But there's also I think a

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Speaker 4: lot that can be done, especially on the supply side,

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Speaker 4: on the loosening allowing making it easier right to build

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Speaker 4: some of those new units, just creating more places for

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Speaker 4: people to live and not making it just this incredibly

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Speaker 4: painful process that could at least reduce some of the

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Speaker 4: rent friction and pricing out that a lot of people feel.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, many many of us live on the four or

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Speaker 2: five freeway twenty four hours a day. Just get on

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Speaker 2: the freeway, all right, One last one. And this is

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Speaker 2: wage guard garnishment. This is the government coming down, the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration coming down and saying, hey, guys, you borrowed

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Speaker 2: the money.

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Speaker 1: We want it back, and if you.

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Speaker 2: Can't pay it back, we're going to garnish your wages

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Speaker 2: like any other vendor would do.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about that.

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Speaker 4: Your take on that, Yeah, I mean it's in some

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Speaker 4: way I understand that the student loan borrow or how

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Speaker 4: shocking it is, right, especially after the super soft kind

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Speaker 4: of approach that the Biden administration had to student loans

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Speaker 4: and to borrowers. It was basically like, hey, we're going

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Speaker 4: to try to forgive these things. We're going to pause

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Speaker 4: loan payments for three plus years. And so everybody was like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: out of side, out of mind. I feel like I

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Speaker 4: don't even have student loans anymore. And then the payments resumed.

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Speaker 4: The Trump administration takes a different tactic, and you know,

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Speaker 4: the court struck down the forgiveness proposal, and people are like, oh, gosh,

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Speaker 4: I guess I got to think about those things again.

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Speaker 4: And so because of that that whiplash effect, a lot

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Speaker 4: of people just haven't been paying on their student loans.

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Speaker 4: Millions and millions of people have not been paying, even

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Speaker 4: though payments have restarted, and the Trump administration has basically said, yeah,

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Speaker 4: if you are delinquent, we're going to start garnishing your wages,

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Speaker 4: and so that could be up to fifteen percent of

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Speaker 4: people's paychecks. That's going to start literally as soon as

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Speaker 4: this week. People are going to start getting notices in

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Speaker 4: the mail. And it's not just your paycheck, like you

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Speaker 4: could see part of your tax refund or maybe your

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Speaker 4: whole tax refund.

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Speaker 3: Garnished as well.

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Speaker 4: So it's one of those things where if you haven't

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Speaker 4: thought about your student loan, it's time to start thinking

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Speaker 4: about it. If you are delinquent, right, it's time to

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Speaker 4: see if there is a payment plan that you can

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Speaker 4: get on with the federal government. Some of those are

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Speaker 4: still going.

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Speaker 3: To be around.

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Speaker 4: They're going to be able to lower your payment maybe

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Speaker 4: to something that is affordable. Also, we're seeing, and this

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Speaker 4: is something probably that you've noticed, Bill, people are able

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Speaker 4: to charge discharge their student loans via bankruptcy if they

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Speaker 4: have true inability to pay. They used to be something

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Speaker 4: that was like basically impossible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very well, very very difficult to do, if

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Speaker 2: not impossible. And I believe that government should be there

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Speaker 2: to help people, you know. I believe to an extent

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Speaker 2: social services should be there. And I'm fine with borrowing

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Speaker 2: money from the government to go to school. I think

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Speaker 2: that is a tremendous advantage to society and to the individual.

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Speaker 2: I think it's uh for the most part, upside my opinion. However,

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Speaker 2: those borrowers who are looking for moratoriums or looking for

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Speaker 2: forgiving loan the student loans, I would like you to

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Speaker 2: google the word borrow and just see what part of

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Speaker 2: you got to pay it back. And they're having a

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Speaker 2: problem with that and so making it easy. But I

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Speaker 2: think it's a great investment for a government to loan

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Speaker 2: money as long as it comes back.

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Speaker 1: Joel, did you borrow? Did you have a student loan?

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Speaker 2: I know you didn't get out of what high school

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Speaker 2: or junior high didn't get out of it, so you didn't

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Speaker 2: have to pay a lot of money, right.

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Speaker 3: I barely graduated middle school.

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Speaker 1: Did you did you borrow money? Do you go to school?

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Speaker 3: I did?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, a small amount first two years, but then I realized,

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Speaker 4: I guess what, I was going to private school for

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Speaker 4: a couple of years, and I didn't want my didn't

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Speaker 4: loan debt to increase anymore. I was like, saw the

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Speaker 4: writing on the wall. I was like, if this keeps going,

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Speaker 4: but I'm going to be in for a long haul

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Speaker 4: of debt payback. So I went to a school that

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Speaker 4: offered better financial aid and was able to get the

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Speaker 4: last two years for free, so that I kept my

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Speaker 4: student loan balance pretty well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I borrowed money.

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Speaker 2: I borrowed money for law school and it was not cheap,

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Speaker 2: and I paid and I paid it back just like

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Speaker 2: I thought I would.

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Speaker 1: Amy, did you borrow money to go to school?

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Speaker 2: Uh?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you paid it. I didn't. Personally, my parents

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Speaker 1: basically took all right.

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Speaker 2: They so you got so you got it for free?

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Speaker 2: They paid, right, they borrowed, they paid. Yes, yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: not you borrowing money. Thanks very much for well joined.

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Speaker 1: Them borrowing money. I still had to work through college. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I understand.

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Speaker 2: I mean so even people who don't borrow money work

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Speaker 2: through college.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but they took out loans for me, all.

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Speaker 2: Right, Joel, Thanks we'll talk again Nexturday, This Sunday, twelve

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Speaker 2: to two. How to Money Joel at how to Money,

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Speaker 2: Joel's social address, and don't forget the website, howdomoney dot com.

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Speaker 1: Joel, you have a good one, have a good weekend.

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Speaker 1: We'll catch on Sunday kf I AM six forty on

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Speaker 1: demand