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Speaker 1: It is a Wednesday morning, and it is time for

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Speaker 1: well medical news. Doctor Jim Keeney, chief medical officer for

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Speaker 1: Dignity Saint Mary Medical Center in Long Beach. Jim, we

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Speaker 1: were just talking about you, and we were discussing whether

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Speaker 1: or not you're legal here in the United States because

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Speaker 1: you look pretty brown.

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Speaker 2: I might be I might be taken off. Jim. It's Neil.

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Speaker 2: This is an intervention, Keeney. Is that Hispanic or Mexicano. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: depends on how you spell it. But I see.

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Speaker 1: That's very funny too. All right, Jim, A couple of

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Speaker 1: things I want to ask you about kra tom or

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Speaker 1: krat tom k R A T O M, which I

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Speaker 1: never heard of, and it's become big news. And of course, uh,

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Speaker 1: is it legit? Is it not legit? Because it's one

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Speaker 1: of those non FDA approved whatever's right?

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Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, this is a dangerous kind of drug potentially,

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Speaker 2: but it's got this wide range of what we're talking

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Speaker 2: about when we talk about kretom. So it's used in

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Speaker 2: Asia and a lot of times workers use it. It's

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Speaker 2: a leaf and they can chew the leaf, they can

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Speaker 2: make a tea out of it, and in those cases

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Speaker 2: it's in low doses, with all the other chemicals that

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Speaker 2: are found in the leaf altogether, it becomes kind of

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Speaker 2: like a stimulant, so it's like their morning coffee. They

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Speaker 2: get up early in the morning to avoid the midday

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Speaker 2: sun to when they're going out to work, so they're

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Speaker 2: getting up at four in the morning taking a little

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Speaker 2: of those kretom tea and then they might do it

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Speaker 2: again in the afternoon a little bit. In higher doses, though,

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Speaker 2: it has opiate like effects, right, so it reduces pain,

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Speaker 2: and that's where it kirked the interests of people in

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Speaker 2: the United States, and for a while there we thought

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Speaker 2: maybe this could be an alternative or an aid to

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Speaker 2: get people off opiate addiction. But the higher doses and

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Speaker 2: these are now we're making it synthetically, so the stuff

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Speaker 2: you buy it in a gas station, the synthetic cretom

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Speaker 2: doesn't have all the other chemicals leaf has in it.

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Speaker 2: It is super high doses, like one hundred times the

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Speaker 2: dose you would get in the t of the active

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Speaker 2: ingredient that actually reduces pain, and it has these opiate

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Speaker 2: like effects. It is even more addictive than opiates that

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Speaker 2: we have on the market area, and it is legal.

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Speaker 1: I can buy it at a gas station.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right now it's it's legal in the state of California,

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Speaker 2: but in LA they're talking about removing it and they're

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Speaker 2: going to they're going to start going into gas stations

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Speaker 2: and citing them if they're selling it, so it'll people

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Speaker 2: can still buy it online. It's illegal in six other states,

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Speaker 2: but it's legal here. The SDA hasn't come out with

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Speaker 2: a stance on it, so federally it's still legal. H So, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's it's still available for purchase and it's kind of

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Speaker 2: a scary drug because the people who take it, they say, wow,

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Speaker 2: it's you are quickly addicted to it. Wow.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you think, when this sort of thing happens,

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Speaker 1: and you've dealt with this for a long time, Once

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Speaker 1: something is deemed dangerous, how quickly does it take the

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Speaker 1: FDA to jump on it and make it illegal and

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Speaker 1: that translates into some kind of legislation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it depends. I mean you've seen designer drugs took decades,

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Speaker 2: you know, to get outlawed, where the designer they were

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Speaker 2: just designing. They were outlong one specific chemical and then

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Speaker 2: a chemist would change it by one molecule and suddenly

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Speaker 2: technically it wasn't illegal anymore. So it took them decades

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Speaker 2: to sort that out and get it so they could

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Speaker 2: make the whole class illegal. So they can be very

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Speaker 2: slow on this stuff. And the other thing is the

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Speaker 2: reason you haven't heard of it, and the reason that

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Speaker 2: flies under the radar is because it's often mixed. The

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Speaker 2: people who use this often are mixing it with alcohol

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Speaker 2: or other drugs. So and this doesn't come up on

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Speaker 2: a drug test. So the problem is when we see

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Speaker 2: them in the er and their final cause of death

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Speaker 2: is listed, tom is usually not found in there. So

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Speaker 2: this has kind of been flying under the radar for

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Speaker 2: a long time.

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Speaker 1: All right, big story that happened, and it looks it

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Speaker 1: seems pretty problematic the baby formula recall because they are

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Speaker 1: a botulism outbreak and it looks like it's getting worse

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Speaker 1: that the numbers are just starting to come in. You

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Speaker 1: want to talk about that, please?

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Speaker 2: Sure? Yeah, First let's talk about botulism. That's Botulism is

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Speaker 2: as a disease that you get when you have the

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Speaker 2: toxin from the bosulism organism in your body. That's the

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Speaker 2: same chemical we use for botox, right, That's what Botox

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Speaker 2: is short for as botulism toxin, and it works by

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Speaker 2: blocking a nerve conductor asidylcholine and paralyzes your muscles. So

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Speaker 2: when you get sick from this, that's what happens to

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Speaker 2: these babies is the botulism. Now, botulism can't grow in

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Speaker 2: an acidic environment, and so babies their stomach isn't quite

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Speaker 2: it isn't as acidic as adults yet, and that's why

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Speaker 2: when they ingest these, they can actually grow in their stomach,

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Speaker 2: in their body and create an infection. If for normal adults,

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Speaker 2: if you just ingested the spore, nothing would happen. If

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Speaker 2: you you have to ingest the actual toxin for you

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Speaker 2: to get paralyzed from it. So that's what we're finding

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Speaker 2: in this baby formula. More common story that we get

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Speaker 2: is honey honey has botulism spores in it has nothing

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Speaker 2: to do with it. Whether it's raw honey or commercially

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Speaker 2: processed honey. All honey has the potential have this botulism spores.

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Speaker 2: They can survive in crazy environments. They're they're hard to kill.

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Speaker 2: You can't you know, boil up to one hundred degrees

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Speaker 2: and celsius. It still won't kill them. You need to

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Speaker 2: auto clay things to get to kill this toxin or

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Speaker 2: the spore. It can live for decades in the soil

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Speaker 2: it you know, UV doesn't kill it, it's infectants don't

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Speaker 2: kill it. So it's hard to get rid of.

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Speaker 1: And is that why it's so dangerous because once it's there,

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Speaker 1: is there and it's not leaving.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's in the environment already. I mean, if you

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Speaker 2: want to out and grab some of your potting soil

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Speaker 2: and then created the perfect environment for botulism to grow,

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Speaker 2: you could probably grow your own bosulism in your backyard.

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Speaker 1: No, and I know I'm talking about once it's in

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Speaker 1: your body.

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Speaker 2: What's in your body? Yeah, it's so for again for adults.

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Speaker 2: Once the toxins in your body, it'll eventually break down

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Speaker 2: and we can use antibodies to kind of to latch

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Speaker 2: onto it so it's ineffective, and then we can support

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Speaker 2: you through you know, breathing mechanisms, you know, being on

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Speaker 2: a ventilator, that type of thing, until it all comes

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Speaker 2: out of your body and people do just fine afterwards.

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Speaker 2: There's usually no long term effects for babies because it's

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Speaker 2: growing in their body. It comes on more slowly, and

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Speaker 2: what happens is they get a little floppy. You know,

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Speaker 2: they lose muscle tone, they're not eating real well, they're drooling,

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Speaker 2: they're not having good bowel movements. Everything just slows down.

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Speaker 2: And as they get more floppy. That's one of our

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Speaker 2: differential we go. I wonder if this baby has botulism,

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Speaker 2: and that we can do the same thing, give them

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Speaker 2: the antibody and also put them on ventilate if they're

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Speaker 2: not breathing well or that type of thing.

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Speaker 1: And so this baby form, the whole thing has been recalled.

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Speaker 1: And I noticed that the word organic is there, and

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Speaker 1: that kills you every time. I think the takeaway here,

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Speaker 1: I think Jim is behind this. Never ever you buy,

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Speaker 1: or use or ingest anything that has the word organic

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Speaker 1: on the label.

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Speaker 2: Is that fair?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: I don't think Organica says sometimes organic has nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with it. Sometimes raw or past your eyes or

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Speaker 2: process doesn't have anything to do with it. It just happened, all.

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Speaker 1: Right, Jim, we'll talk again next week. Have a good one.

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Speaker 1: Take care,