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Speaker 1: It's nice eyes with Dan Ray. I'm going easy Boston's

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Speaker 1: News Radio.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Emma.

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Speaker 3: It is a WBZ and that side with Dan Ray

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Speaker 3: and Bradley Jay in for Dan, and at ten o'clock

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Speaker 3: we're gonna talk about Italian cooking and we're gonna teach

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Speaker 3: you actually how to cook a couple of fancy dishes

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Speaker 3: and also how to make handmade pasta. I know that's

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Speaker 3: kind of simple for some, but I've tried it and

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Speaker 3: failed a lot, and I'd like to really know how

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Speaker 3: to do it. Yes, I know it's just flour and eggs,

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Speaker 3: put this is more to it than that. Also a

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Speaker 3: saltan buca, do you know what that is? We're going

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Speaker 3: to learn how to make that, and some real tiara massou.

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Speaker 3: That will be at ten with a fifth generation local

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Speaker 3: North End cook. And at nine o'clock we're going to

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Speaker 3: talk about the history of public transportation in Boston, way

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Speaker 3: back to the very first. Do you know what the

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Speaker 3: very first form of public transportation was in Boston.

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Speaker 2: It was a.

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Speaker 3: Which allowed folks to avoid a two day walk around

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Speaker 3: around the peninsula. So that was the very first thing.

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Speaker 3: We will take it from that point all the way

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Speaker 3: up to this point with the guy who runs the

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Speaker 3: an MBTA shop over a mass out between Harvard and

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Speaker 3: Heard and Porter. He's all about the NBTA, he's all

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Speaker 3: about public transportation. He's going to be fun as well.

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Speaker 3: But now we're going to talk with Doug Arian, director

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Speaker 3: of Mountains of Stars, and a physics professor about ten

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Speaker 3: scientific theories that somehow became unpopular in twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 3: I shouldn't say theories, I should say truths. Ten scientific

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Speaker 3: truths that somehow in the last year became increasingly unpopular,

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Speaker 3: and we're going to go through them and explain why

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Speaker 3: they really are true.

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Speaker 2: Doug, thanks for being with us. He's calling from.

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Speaker 3: Probably from Twin mountains in New Hampshire with lots of

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Speaker 3: stars up there.

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Speaker 4: Hi, Doug, I'm bradly great to chire with you again.

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Speaker 4: And yes we have well we'd have stars if it

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Speaker 4: worn't cloudy, but we have snow, so it's a nice

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Speaker 4: winter up here in the mountains.

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Speaker 2: Now, tell me before we started about Mountains of Stars, so.

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Speaker 4: That I run called Mountains of Stars is a public

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Speaker 4: science education program where we try to connect people with

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Speaker 4: the environment through astronomy. Because if you look up and

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Speaker 4: understand where we fit into the very big picture of

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Speaker 4: the whole universe we look at. So we do programs

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Speaker 4: all over New England, language on programs for over seventy

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Speaker 4: five thousand people to try to improve the way we

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Speaker 4: work with our environment here and connect people with stars

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Speaker 4: and planets and all the other things in the universe.

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Speaker 3: And you're a physics professor, so you're able to explain

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Speaker 3: things and explain.

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Speaker 2: Why they're important. Let's get since we have only one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's very important.

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Speaker 3: Let's get to the top ten. Truth is the it

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Speaker 3: became unpopular this year twenty twenty five. Number one truth

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Speaker 3: that became unpopular. It was already sort of unpopular, but

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Speaker 3: I guess it became increasingly unpopular.

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Speaker 2: The germ theory of disease.

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Speaker 3: The germ theory of disease is real and vaccination is

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Speaker 3: the safest, most effective strategy to combat these deadly pathogens,

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Speaker 3: according to.

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Speaker 2: The article in Apple News. And that is still true.

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Speaker 2: It's still true.

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Speaker 3: That the germ theory of disease is real and vaccination

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Speaker 3: is the safest, most effective strategy. Is it true that

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Speaker 3: there are people that don't believe in that the diseases

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Speaker 3: are caused by germs.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, there are still folks out there who who don't

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Speaker 4: recognize that, and even more who don't realize how effective

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Speaker 4: vaccination is to either reduce the effective disease or prevent

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Speaker 4: it from happening in the first place. And we've actually

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Speaker 4: been doing vaccinations for hundreds of years, believe it or not.

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Speaker 4: If you go back to say, for ticonder Roga during

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Speaker 4: the Revolution, they actually intentionally applied smallpox to soldiers in

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Speaker 4: small amounts that they wouldn't get the big disease. So

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Speaker 4: this is not a new thing. It's not like we

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Speaker 4: just invented it. The technology is the better, we've gotten

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Speaker 4: better ways of doing it, but we've been doing it

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Speaker 4: a very long time.

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Speaker 3: Is it the people don't believe in vaccination, or is

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Speaker 3: it that they don't believe in the new kind of

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Speaker 3: fast track vaccination that was a COVID vaccination, or is

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Speaker 3: it more than.

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Speaker 4: We're concerned about the fact that that happened so quickly,

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Speaker 4: but it didn't actually happen as quickly as pink RNA

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Speaker 4: based vaccines mr quork have been going on for many years.

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Speaker 4: So everybody was really spun up and ready to develop

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Speaker 4: something to target at the COVID virus pretty quickly. So

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Speaker 4: it was a trendous accomplishment to make that work, and

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Speaker 4: it certainly did.

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Speaker 2: Are you enough are.

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Speaker 3: You smart enough and enough of a professor to explain

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Speaker 3: to me how the RNA vaccinations work or is that

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Speaker 3: that's not really your ball your bailiwick, but can you

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Speaker 3: explain it?

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Speaker 4: It's not my specialty. The basic concept is you you

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Speaker 4: introduce something into the body that the body recognizes the

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Speaker 4: same way it would recognize the virus, and it builds

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Speaker 4: up cells coils that are capable of destroying that by

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Speaker 4: triggering that. When you then get exposed to the real virus,

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Speaker 4: these t cells come up there enough up before it

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Speaker 4: can affect you, and it really works. It's amazing stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew, I knew that body.

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Speaker 3: I mean is like way way back in Benjamin right

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Speaker 3: back in Cotton Mather times. Weren't they doing a little

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Speaker 3: bit of that vaccination cowpox type of scratching and it

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Speaker 3: worked right right?

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Speaker 4: But that was actually using live virus, right and just

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Speaker 4: give you at to build up. Now you know, subsequently

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Speaker 4: we use what was called killed virus viruses that have

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Speaker 4: been modified that they wouldn't make you sick but would

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Speaker 4: create the reaction. And mr NA as a whole other

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Speaker 4: technology using RNA as opposed to DNA to generate it.

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Speaker 4: And I'll admit I don't know the details of it,

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Speaker 4: but that's the that's the basic process.

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Speaker 3: There are side effects that do we have to respect

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Speaker 3: the people who are concerned about the side effects, Like

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Speaker 3: some code vaccines, you'd hear reports of enlarged heart and

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Speaker 3: other side effects. Why is that not a legitimate concern.

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Speaker 4: Well, there are legitimate concerns for everything. But but it's

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Speaker 4: also the matter of risks and what you do. So,

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Speaker 4: for example, we all drive cars. Even though death by

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Speaker 4: cars not all that unlikely, right, it's sufficiently unlikely that

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Speaker 4: you're willing to travel by car. And so when we're

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Speaker 4: working with things like vaccines, they work for almost everybody.

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Speaker 4: And yes, there are who will have a bad reaction

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Speaker 4: to it, but as a whole, it is beneficial to

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Speaker 4: vaccinate as many people as possible because that prevents the

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Speaker 4: transmission of disease.

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Speaker 2: Mandatory to vaccinate kids to go to school.

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Speaker 4: I think yeah, for for the primary diseases, because it

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Speaker 4: has been extremely ect Polio, small, all these different they

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Speaker 4: they've basically been wiped out because we've been assured of

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Speaker 4: basically eliminating characters who could carry it have been protected,

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Speaker 4: and so those diseases have basically been eliminated. And if

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Speaker 4: we can do that for everything consistently makes us all

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Speaker 4: safer and healthier.

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Speaker 3: You know, I want to be fair to people that

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Speaker 3: are concerned about something. I try to put myself in

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Speaker 3: an anti vaxxer's place, a person that did not want

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Speaker 3: to be forced to.

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Speaker 2: Have a vaccine or have the kid have a vaccine.

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Speaker 3: And I was thinking, what if I truly believed from

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Speaker 3: false information that it was dangerous, or even from real information,

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Speaker 3: if I truly believed that as jamming something in my

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Speaker 3: body would hurt me, I too would probably not be

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Speaker 3: too thrilled about that. I would probably revolt against that.

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Speaker 3: I think somehow the problem is that there's a there's

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Speaker 3: an unfounded fear, or the fear is too much. I mean,

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Speaker 3: when when people hear hard enlargement, they don't know that

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Speaker 3: it's like three of those per one hundred thousand, whereas

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Speaker 3: the exactly where and I just use as an example,

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Speaker 3: they don't know that the risks from long COVID far

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Speaker 3: out weigh that if there's anyone who wants to take

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Speaker 3: either side of this vaccination topic, I'm happy to entertain

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Speaker 3: both sides, and I'll tell you why. Honestly, I know

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Speaker 3: the vaccination's work. I know that's why measles, smallpox, polio,

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Speaker 3: et cetera are virtually non existent. On the other hand,

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Speaker 3: do I trust big government? Do I trust big pharma?

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Speaker 3: Do I think they're above convincing me that I need

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Speaker 3: something that I don't need.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think that.

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Speaker 3: I think that the dollar rules, and they would act.

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Speaker 3: They would absolutely try to convince me to do this

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Speaker 3: and take advantage of a situation to convince me to

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Speaker 3: do it. So, of course I get the vaccines because

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Speaker 3: the science says I should.

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Speaker 2: But not you know, I'm not hook line and sinker.

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Speaker 3: I do it because the risk reward tells me I

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Speaker 3: should do it, And so I've gotten them all.

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Speaker 4: I'm all right, Yeah, I totally agree. You know. It's

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Speaker 4: the thing about vaccines that I don't think was well

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Speaker 4: explained during COVID was part of getting a vaccine was

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Speaker 4: a matter of protecting you, but also kept you from

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Speaker 4: being a carrier to spread it to multiple people. So

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Speaker 4: part of being vaccinated isn't just protecting yourself. It's protecting others,

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Speaker 4: and so it reduces cheap things from becoming epidemics. It's

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Speaker 4: not just a matter of and so there's a bigger

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Speaker 4: societal aspect of it that I don't think is well explained.

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Speaker 4: It's not just oh, well, I've decided I don't want

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Speaker 4: to take it. It's like, well, that means you could

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Speaker 4: be a care and you could infect a lot of

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Speaker 4: other people.

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Speaker 2: All right, we need to take a break now, that's.

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Speaker 4: Something you want to do.

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Speaker 2: We need to take it break now.

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Speaker 3: And in the meantime it is kind of a glitchy

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Speaker 3: connection that we have.

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Speaker 2: It comes in and out.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if there's anything you can mcgiver together

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Speaker 3: on your end or r end to make it a little better.

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Speaker 3: If there is, let's try to do that during the break.

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Speaker 3: If not, we'll continue as is. And the next thing

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Speaker 3: is about the fact that it was SARS of COVID

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Speaker 3: was not a result of the Wuhan wet market.

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Speaker 2: I guess it was.

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Speaker 3: Not a conspiracy, but somehow in twenty twenty five that

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Speaker 3: conspiracy theory kind of kind of moved in again. We'll

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Speaker 3: talk a bit about that on WBZ.

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Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's news.

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Speaker 2: Radio, Bradley J F.

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Speaker 3: Dan, We're around with Doug Arian, a physics professor, my

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Speaker 3: favorite physics professor. By the way, if you don't you

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Speaker 3: don't know this, then you probably don't. Doug makes his

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Speaker 3: own telescopes there. He makes big ones. He grinds his

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Speaker 3: own glass. He has a little servo motor it so

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Speaker 3: they follow the stars as they move across the sky

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Speaker 3: or appear to move across the sky. And in his

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Speaker 3: little observatory, it's like a garage with a roof that retracts,

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Speaker 3: and its way up in the middle of the White

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Speaker 3: Mountains in Twin Mountain on a road which probably doesn't

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Speaker 3: have landline service, and that's why I guess the sell

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Speaker 3: service is a bit spotty. But you know, we'll try

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Speaker 3: to continue here. Now we're talking about ten scientific truths

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Speaker 3: that somehow became unpopular in twenty twenty five. We started

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Speaker 3: out with basically fear of vaccines and folks not really

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Speaker 3: believing in germ theory.

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Speaker 2: And if you have an.

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Speaker 3: Anti vaxxer, I want to give you a platform because

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Speaker 3: I don't want to be one sided here. On the

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Speaker 3: night side, happy to talk about that. I kind of

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Speaker 3: feel your pain. I'm personally gonna get every vaccine.

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Speaker 2: Except I will tell you my doctor.

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Speaker 3: Told me that he did not recommend the RSV vaccine

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Speaker 3: and I asked him why, and I didn't really understand.

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Speaker 3: And later he goes, I guess you know, it's okay,

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Speaker 3: But now I still have a little doubt about that.

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Speaker 3: So I still haven't gotten that one, but I got

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Speaker 3: everything else. I got them all. I'm you know, if

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Speaker 3: you're going all in, go super all in. I'm vaccinated

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Speaker 3: to the teeth. Now we'll talk about COVID again. And

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Speaker 3: this is the scientific truth that lost popularity in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty five, that it was not a conspiracy theory. And

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Speaker 3: this is reading from the article in the Apple News article.

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Speaker 3: In the spring of twenty twenty, infections from a novel

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Speaker 3: coronavirus began to spike in country DECREEA. We get that

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Speaker 3: Asia Americans, Tens of thousands died, hundreds of thousands, we

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Speaker 3: got long COVID and really bad side effects. And around

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Speaker 3: the same time, a dishonest narrative no basis in science,

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Speaker 3: began appearing that the virus was not a result of

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Speaker 3: the natural spillover from nature to humans, but came as

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Speaker 3: a result of work that was conducted, Oh I see,

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Speaker 3: perhaps in secret at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

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Speaker 4: So what is that?

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Speaker 3: How do we know that it's natural and natural spillover?

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Speaker 3: And what is a natural spillover? How do we know

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Speaker 3: that it did not come from a secret lab in

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Speaker 3: Woo in China.

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Speaker 4: So we'll talk about with spillovers is that many viruses

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Speaker 4: are carried by various creatures. In fact, right now we're

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Speaker 4: having bird flu, which is a virus is carried through birds,

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Speaker 4: for example. And there are many many creatures that are

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Speaker 4: carrying viruses around to which they either have no reaction

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Speaker 4: or little reaction. But if if virus gets spilled out

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Speaker 4: and gets in, we have a bad reaction to it.

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Speaker 4: And this has happened on numerouss and things that we

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Speaker 4: get are from viruses that had their origins with other species.

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Speaker 4: Remember we share the planet with hundreds of millions of

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Speaker 4: other species. You know, things happen. So the way you

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Speaker 4: can tell what comes from where and how it's connected

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Speaker 4: is something that we've been able to do anolgately recently,

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Speaker 4: which is to actually sequence the DNA in them, and

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Speaker 4: so you can tag each virus and each kind of

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Speaker 4: virus with where it came from. So even during COVID,

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Speaker 4: you may remember, there were all these different variants that

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Speaker 4: came out. There was the alpha version, and there was

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Speaker 4: this version, then the omicron version was the really bad one.

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Speaker 4: Each of us is the same kind of virus, was slow,

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Speaker 4: different DNA in it. And because of that, they were

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Speaker 4: able to actually sequence which versions were affecting which people

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Speaker 4: in which places, so you can actually map out ones

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Speaker 4: were particularly bad, which ones were easy to transmit, which

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Speaker 4: ones made people the sickest, because each of them behaved.

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Speaker 4: So that lets you actually start mapping back to what

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Speaker 4: the original virus must have looked like because you can

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Speaker 4: see each of the variations as they popped up on

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Speaker 4: So this incredible ability to do DNA sequencing, which is

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Speaker 4: why you can get, you know, do the twenty three

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Speaker 4: and me thing, you know, and find out where you

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Speaker 4: came from, and all of that, that same technology let

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Speaker 4: us understand each virus, what that virus came from, what

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Speaker 4: the variations are, and what the sequence is. So really

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Speaker 4: amazing chunk of science that lets you work that out

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Speaker 4: to determine what the sources of these viruses are. And

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Speaker 4: so there's real science, there's really lab work you can

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Speaker 4: do to figure this just a matter of well, I

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Speaker 4: think it just came from there, and I'm just going

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Speaker 4: to say, and that's the difference between science and rumor.

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Speaker 4: So so that sequencing technique was very in understanding and

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Speaker 4: then managing what happened with COVID and any other major

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Speaker 4: widespread viruses.

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Speaker 3: Is that a little bit like when you do the

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Speaker 3: genetic testing to see about your ancestry, they they.

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Speaker 4: Can track exactly it's the same same exact thing, the

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Speaker 4: same kind of chemistry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it didn't come from Wuhan, China, came from

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Speaker 2: some spill over.

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Speaker 4: Well, it did come from it. I mean, it did

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Speaker 4: come from China, but it came from animals in China.

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Speaker 4: It did not come from somebody trying to make that

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Speaker 4: virus in a lab. It came from an animal source,

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Speaker 4: and that animal source virus then through passing through various humans,

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Speaker 4: we got all these differ, diferent variations. Those variations all

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Speaker 4: travel around very very quickly, and there were some outstanding

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Speaker 4: studies back there. It's just reading about one today which

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Speaker 4: talked about the different kinds of people and the amounts

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Speaker 4: of liquids that have you when you're speaking right, the

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Speaker 4: little droplets that come out, and how those carried the virus,

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Speaker 4: and which ones carried the virus farther that allowed it

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Speaker 4: to reach to more people, and then those people became

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Speaker 4: carriers to further people. In each of those versions was

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Speaker 4: a different, slightly different version of the virus, and we

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Speaker 4: can map all of that wicked coold.

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Speaker 3: But do you believe that countries do manufacture viruses? Though

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Speaker 3: I would think they would. Chemical warfare, viral biological warfare,

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Speaker 3: that does happen.

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Speaker 4: Right, Things get sequenced, things get put together. I'm I'm

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Speaker 4: not aware of folks making actual viruses, which are more

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Speaker 4: than just a DNA strand, Right, You've got to build

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Speaker 4: the appropriate DNA and RNA combinations. They then have to

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Speaker 4: go into the right protein. There's a lot of stuff

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Speaker 4: that goes into actually making a virus that's different than

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Speaker 4: making parts that go into it. And I'm not a biologist,

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Speaker 4: so I'm not a specialist at doing that kind of science.

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Speaker 4: I understand the sequencing process, the ability to create individual molecules,

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Speaker 4: but actually building a virus from scratch and putting that

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Speaker 4: out into the environment. That would take a lot.

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Speaker 3: All right, well, let's take a break and talk about

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Speaker 3: one thing that I noticed in twenty twenty five people

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Speaker 3: used peer review or passing peer review or not passing

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Speaker 3: peer review a reason to doubt science. And that needs

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Speaker 3: some explanation and hopefully you'll give it to us after

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Speaker 3: this break on w b Z.

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Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Boston's

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Speaker 1: News Radio.

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Speaker 3: Let's continue with Doug Arion, professor of physics and astronomer

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Speaker 3: and much more. And being a scientist, he's very familiar

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Speaker 3: with a thing called peer review, and peer review is

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Speaker 3: something that has been used by science doubters and conspiracy

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Speaker 3: theorists to discredit scientific theories and even settled science. Can

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Speaker 3: you explain what peer review really is and how it's

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Speaker 3: used to buy sort of anti science people to discredit

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Speaker 3: scientific theory and fact.

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Speaker 4: Sure, So I'm a scientist. I do research. When I

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Speaker 4: come to some conclusion that I will to publish, I

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Speaker 4: write up a paper and I submit that to a journal.

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Speaker 4: And what that journal editor then does is send that

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Speaker 4: paper with your name removed, so it's cold blind, so

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Speaker 4: nobody knows who wrote it. And that is sent out

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Speaker 4: to several other people who are researchers in a similar field.

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Speaker 4: They read the paper and they critique it. They'll look

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Speaker 4: at it and say, okay, does the method seem reasonable

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Speaker 4: to the conclusions that the author thinks they lead to?

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Speaker 4: Did the steps seem to be taken correctly? And if

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Speaker 4: they agree to that, then the paper gets published. Find

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Speaker 4: problems with it, which is most of the time, they'll

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Speaker 4: send questions back to the author and say, well, you know,

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Speaker 4: could you please explain step two over here? It seems

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Speaker 4: like that'slishenable, and you would edit the paper and this

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Speaker 4: might go back and forth three, four, five times, and

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Speaker 4: if you meet reviewers think needs to be fixed, the

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Speaker 4: paper then gets published. That then makes it available to everybody,

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Speaker 4: to the entire side of the community, who will then

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Speaker 4: read that paper and will consider it as part of

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Speaker 4: the literature and say, okay, what does this mean? Is

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Speaker 4: this right? Can I use this in my research? And

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Speaker 4: so on? Now, the process of sciencespecch that with each

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Speaker 4: step we thought things that we thought were right but

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Speaker 4: turn out not to be right. We say, okay, this

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Speaker 4: is going on, this is what I published. Somebody does

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Speaker 4: some more work on it and comes back and goes, well,

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Speaker 4: that's what you thought, but this is actually what's better,

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Speaker 4: and they publish a paper that advanced as the science.

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Speaker 4: And this is what goes on over and over and

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Speaker 4: over again.

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Speaker 3: Review is let me see if I understand sure, a

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Speaker 3: scientist comes up with a theory and a method of

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Speaker 3: testing the theory, and before actually doing the real testing,

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Speaker 3: he he or she writes it up, sends it out

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Speaker 3: to their years to say, look, does this look kind

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Speaker 3: of reasonable? Is this is this crazy? H does this

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Speaker 3: method of researching it look right? And in no way

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Speaker 3: has anyone decided that that is now scientific fact. It's

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Speaker 3: just checking up on It's like it's like openers in

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Speaker 3: a card game, or it's like probable cause? Is there

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Speaker 3: enough cause, probable cause to go forward with this? And

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Speaker 3: what happens is people just because enough legitimacy was found

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Speaker 3: to go forward with that, and they if they do

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Speaker 3: go forward with it and find out, well, the theory

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Speaker 3: didn't really work out we tested it. It really was wrong. Naysayers.

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Speaker 3: Scientific naysayers will use that as an example of science

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Speaker 3: is wrong. You can't depend on science. Science is wrong

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Speaker 3: when that's really not has not been established as a

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Speaker 3: scientific fact, yet it's not wrong. That's part of the

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Speaker 3: process of deciding if it's wrong. But they're using that

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Speaker 3: process in an early step to say science is no

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Speaker 3: good anymore. Really, and that's not a that's not and

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Speaker 3: an inflation. That's true. They don't want they don't like

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Speaker 3: the scientific method anymore. And that's something that a belief

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Speaker 3: that increased in the last year twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: Do I have that kind of correct.

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, that's the basic idea. You know, this idea

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Speaker 4: of peer review goes back hundreds of years with the

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Speaker 4: Royal Society four hundred years ago. That you know, research

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Speaker 4: we represented and people would critique it before it would

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Speaker 4: be published, and that it's an important step and that

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Speaker 4: the method of science works even though each of the

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Speaker 4: things we discover improves upon or even invalidates a prior idea.

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Speaker 4: I mean, everything we know from Isaac Newton, everything Isaac

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Speaker 4: Newton did, is actually wrong right because they now but

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Speaker 4: it works. I mean your tennis player, basketball player only

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Speaker 4: needs to use Newton to put the ball in the

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Speaker 4: right place, but once you go into spaceflight you need

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Speaker 4: what Einstein did. Newton is wrong.

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Speaker 3: That'd be this would be great for you to do.

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Speaker 3: How was Newton wrong about everything?

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Speaker 4: Well, Newton's theories work if you're not moving too fast.

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Speaker 4: If you move fast, and this gets into complicated things.

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Speaker 4: Ogine showed is, for example, distances and masses and time change.

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Speaker 4: When you're moving very fast, it's called relativity. But if

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Speaker 4: you're not moving that fast, and it's fast, we're talking

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Speaker 4: about compared to the speed of light, so crazy fast.

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Speaker 4: If you're not moving that fast, you can use a

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Speaker 4: simpler explanation, the explanation that Newton had, and it works

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Speaker 4: just fine. It's just once you start moving faster, or

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Speaker 4: you're in very strong gravity, like around a black hole,

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Speaker 4: or you're looking at things on the scale of galaxies.

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Speaker 4: If you calculate it using Newton's theory, you get close,

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Speaker 4: but not quite. If you use Einstein's theory, you get

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Speaker 4: the right numbers. And so we know that Einstein's explanation

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Speaker 4: of special and general relativity is a more accurate description

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Speaker 4: of how the universe works than Newton's description. So the

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Speaker 4: fact that Newton's worked for hundreds of years until we

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Speaker 4: discover like, oh, wait a minute, if you go fast enough,

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Speaker 4: you're oh, Einstein figured out what you do under those sences.

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Speaker 3: Are there any examples of in real life where we

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00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 3: have done anything that went fast enough so that Newton's

440
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 3: theories did not work? Do you have we gotten close

441
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 3: to a black hole so that Newton's science didn't work anymore,

442
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 3: or were still in the in the theoretical stage.

443
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 4: You don't even You don't even have to go that extreme.

444
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 4: Everybody uses GPS, which is like the tool that everybody

445
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 4: uses to get everywhere. Right, You use maps on your

446
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 4: phone or in your car to get someplace. The JEEP

447
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 4: satellites actually have to use their computers when they send

448
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 4: signals down, actually use Einstein's equations and not Newton's equations.

449
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 4: If you don't use Einstein's equations, your airplane misses the runway.

450
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 2: That's no good.

451
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 4: So you actually use it every single day. You just

452
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 4: don't know it. It's being done for you because those

453
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 4: satellites are in gravity and they're traveling for that. So

454
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 4: if you don't correct for that, you don't get the

455
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 4: right position, all right, So you actually use it every day,

456
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 4: you just don't know it.

457
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 3: Speaking of satellites, another truth which became I guess less

458
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 3: popular in twenty twenty five is that Earth's orbit has

459
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 3: a finite carrying ability for satellites.

460
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 2: In other words, in the orbit orbital.

461
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 3: Altitude that satellites work in, there's only so much room

462
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 3: and you can and we're approaching the maximum satellites that

463
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 3: you can put.

464
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 2: In there, and once you exceed that, you could.

465
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 3: Run into something called the Kessler syndrome, which is a

466
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 3: disastrous thing. Can you elaborate on that and talk about

467
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,959
Speaker 3: what happens if there are too many and the Kessler

468
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 3: syndrome kicks in?

469
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 4: Sure, So just envision highways that you drive on all

470
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 4: the time. When you have highways that don't have a

471
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 4: lot of tram cars on them, but they're not all

472
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 4: they're near each other traffic moodally, there's no real problems

473
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 4: and accidents. A lot of cars in a smaller road,

474
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 4: or too many cars on a road, the probability of

475
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 4: having an accident gets through pretty high. And if things

476
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 4: are moving fast enough and two cars at each other,

477
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 4: that tends to create a chain reaction because other cars

478
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 4: run into them. And you've seen accidents like that all

479
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 4: the time. Well, the same thing's happening in space. And

480
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 4: so these large groups of satellites that are being flown

481
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 4: to supply Internet, so Starlink, one web Kuyper, all these

482
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 4: different satellites, the narrow band of altitude, they're filling that

483
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 4: up with satellites and we only have right now and

484
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 4: up there we're looking at maybe one hundred to one

485
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty thousand satellites up there. Remember they're all

486
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 4: moving seventeen thousand miles an hour. So the two of

487
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 4: these things happened, that'll create debris. The same way when

488
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:35,760
Speaker 4: you have two cars at each other and you have

489
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 4: a lot of stuff spread all over the road. Well,

490
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,719
Speaker 4: thing that comes along smashes into that debris and gets broken,

491
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 4: and the next one smashes into it and gets broken,

492
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 4: and all of a sudden you have one of these

493
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 4: catastrophic collections of accidents. Well that's what the Kesseler syndrome is.

494
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 4: It says, well, if you have a collision and it

495
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 4: creates a field of broken parts, and the next thing

496
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 4: that comes through hits that and that breaks up. That

497
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 4: makes the con parts even bigger. And that just aids

498
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 4: until the point is that you start descrying all the

499
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 4: satellites so you can.

500
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 3: Have a multic You could have a multi car pile

501
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 3: up out in space. Where satellites study crashing into each

502
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 3: other in a chain reaction.

503
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 4: Exactly, and so already, believe it or not, the satellites

504
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 4: up there have to maneuver. There are hundreds of maneuvers

505
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 4: a day every day. Right now, what are satellites we

506
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 4: have there? Where satellites have the moves, they don't hit,

507
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 4: So imagine what happens when we jam that up, Like

508
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 4: you know ninety three in Boston in the tunnel, when

509
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 4: you put too many cars, it happens. That's what's happening

510
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 4: up there. So there are a lot of concerns about it. Unfortunately,

511
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 4: there isn't a really good set of regulations or treaties

512
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 4: for dealing with this. And I'm actually on a major

513
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 4: international committee that's working on this, and there's a big

514
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 4: group that is approaching you say, look, we need to

515
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 4: start putting some rules and REGs together, basically creating traffic laws.

516
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 4: Like we have other highways, you know, like who has

517
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 4: right way and how do you enter a highway and

518
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 4: how do you exit a highway. We don't have that

519
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 4: for space. We need to have that for space.

520
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 3: Do you have any hope that you can defeat big money,

521
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 3: that you can defeat the elon musks who control the government.

522
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 3: When big money is at stake, can an organization like

523
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 3: the one you're a part of.

524
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: Really do anything.

525
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 3: Don't you know in the back of in your heart

526
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 3: that they're just going to keep doing it and tell

527
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 3: the Kessler effect until it takes place, until there's a

528
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 3: huge crash up there.

529
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 4: I guess, unfortunately, I don't have a lot of hope

530
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 4: for actually solving these things. In fact, there are more

531
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 4: companies that are planning to put up more different kinds

532
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 4: of things. So there's a company that's looking to fly

533
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 4: a whole series of huge mirrors, and they're going to

534
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 4: fly them so that they can bounce sunlight onto solar

535
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 4: arrays even during the dark, to keep solar arrays going.

536
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 4: Is that if you're happen to be under where one

537
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 4: of these things is, you're going to be in blinding

538
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 4: bright light in the middle of the.

539
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 2: Night twenty four to seven. It's going to hap.

540
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 4: You think that's a great idea, But there's a company

541
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 4: and right now we don't have any rules to stop

542
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 4: somebody from doing that. So that there are all these

543
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 4: different things, not just the stabber communications, but all these

544
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 4: other things that people are trying to do that have

545
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 4: major environmental implications on the ground and in space.

546
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 3: One quick question, what is that altitude range for that

547
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 3: satellites can be effective in? How many feet is the

548
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 3: is the bottom and how many feet is the ceiling?

549
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 4: Well, the bottom is it's a range of several hundred

550
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 4: miles a couple hundred miles up, so from you know,

551
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 4: one hundred and fifty to five hundred miles something like that.

552
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 4: It is a range through which most of these things go.

553
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 4: But you know, the two hundred two hundred and fifty

554
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 4: mile range is pretty common. So it's in that range

555
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 4: of a couple hundred miles, which sounds like it's big,

556
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 4: but when you're moving seventeen thousand miles an hour, that's

557
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:26,360
Speaker 4: not that far.

558
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 3: And how many of them are already up there? And

559
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:34,760
Speaker 3: what percent of that is the max? Like how many

560
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 3: can what is the max that can fit up there?

561
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 4: Well, that's a good question. I'm not sure that number offhand.

562
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 4: There are experts in that who work that out right now,

563
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 4: I believe, Well, there's about fourteen thousand active satellites. There

564
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 4: are some sixty thousand pieces of satellite and satellite debris

565
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 4: that are being tracked. So it's not just the satellites.

566
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 4: When you have old satellites, you have dead birds, you

567
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 4: have debris from launching things, launch vehicles. There's a lot

568
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 4: more up there than just these satellites, which makes the

569
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 4: problem even worse as you can imagine. So I'm not

570
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 4: sure what the total number, what that capacity really is,

571
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 4: but with all the maneuvers we have to have and

572
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 4: what the projected number of spacecraft is is pretty scary.

573
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 3: One quick one more question about that before the break,

574
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 3: and that is if there is one of these Kessler

575
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 3: effect chain reaction satellite collisions, like a big pile up

576
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 3: on a winter highway in Colorado, and if airlines depend

577
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 3: on that GPS to hit the runway, could that cause

578
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 3: a catastrophic group of airline crashes if the Kessler effects

579
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 3: comes to pass.

580
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 4: I have to look at what the altitude is for

581
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 4: all the GPS satellites. I believe the GPS satellites are

582
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 4: operating in a way that would not be affected by

583
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 4: that directly. Now, depending on how big that cloud a

584
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 4: debris is, that could spread out and start taking out

585
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 4: all sorts of things. So it depends how big that

586
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 4: cloud would be. But it's ps, then all sorts of

587
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 4: things become a problem.

588
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 2: I'm surprised we haven't.

589
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 4: It's just radio interference.

590
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 3: I'm surprised that we haven't had satellite warfare yet. So

591
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 3: much so much is increasingly depending on satellites and navigation

592
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 3: for drone use, which is increasingly popular. I'm surprised we

593
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 3: haven't seen more killer satellites or attempts to kill satellites.

594
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 3: I don't need you to answer that, and.

595
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 4: Let well we have. We actually have. We actually have

596
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:04,720
Speaker 4: not directly against other country satellites, but launched and destroyed

597
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 4: one of their own satellites a year ago last October,

598
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 4: an anti satellite weapon, which by the way, created a

599
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 4: big cloud of broken satellite parts, attributing factor to the

600
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:22,800
Speaker 4: space debris problem. The Chinese also did one, so countries

601
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 4: are demonstrating that they have the ability to launch something

602
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 4: and take out a satellite pretty sooner.

603
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 2: I have to have a satellite.

604
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 3: It's a real one satellite weapon band treaty, just like

605
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 3: we had a nuclear test band treaty. Let's take that

606
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 3: break I've been promising, and we'll finish up with Doug

607
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 3: in a moment on WBZ.

608
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio WBZ.

609
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 3: Where with Doug Arion, a physics professor, we're kind of

610
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:59,360
Speaker 3: talking about we've been going through ten scientific facts that

611
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 3: started to be doubted, it became unpopular in twenty twenty five,

612
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 3: and the conversation led to the glut, the dangerous glut

613
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 3: of satellites we have and what can happen as a

614
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 3: result if we keep introducing more up there, and we

615
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 3: do take we do always encourage callers, and so Ed, Doug,

616
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 3: Ed and Wooster is going to join us.

617
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 4: Hello, Ed, Hi Bradley. I had heard you guys discussing COVID,

618
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 4: and I just had a few points I jotted down

619
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 4: that I think I'm right about. I wasn't really paying

620
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 4: attention during COVID, and I didn't have consider myself strongly

621
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 4: aligned with either the pro or anti VACS people. But

622
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 4: there were some things, some things that caused me to

623
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 4: sort of doubt a lot of the stuff I was

624
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 4: hearing from the from the government slash the scientific side. Okay,

625
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 4: and I just want to see if these are right,

626
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 4: if I'm understanding of these, Okay, I can run through

627
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 4: a few. First thing, Sweden, my understanding of Sweden basically

628
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 4: did nothing, and at least I think, but I have

629
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 4: heard they had fewer excess deaths than we had with

630
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 4: all the different things we did. A second thing was

631
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,919
Speaker 4: I had thought under President Biden, the SDI concluded that

632
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 4: it was more likely than not that it didn't but

633
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 4: COVID didn't have a natural origin. Then another thing is

634
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 4: that I had thought the vaccine, actually we found out

635
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 4: it didn't prevent a vaccinated person from being a carrier.

636
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 4: And then just one more, although I have a two

637
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 4: or three more. You know, the American Society Pediatrics at

638
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 4: one point came out and said, during the pandemic said

639
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 4: we think it's okay for I can't remember what age,

640
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 4: but young kids, elementary school kids to go back to school.

641
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 4: Then like within a week, President Trump, this was during

642
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 4: Trump's first term, said yeah, I think elementary school kids

643
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 4: can go back to this. And then the American Society

644
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 4: pedi Arctis immediately reversed themselves on the other side, I mean,

645
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 4: this is not and then I don't even want to

646
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 4: get into the whole. You know how doctor Fauci and

647
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 4: Francis Collins dealt with the Great Barrington people. This does

648
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 4: not inspire a lot of confidence.

649
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 2: That's true. This is a good one. Our hour was over,

650
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,399
Speaker 2: and I'm glad you brought those points up. Doug.

651
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 3: We don't even really have a chance to respond other

652
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 3: than i'd say, ed, tell you what if you're If

653
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 3: you're still around at eleven, I'm when I have opened lines,

654
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 3: and I'd be happy to discuss that with you. If

655
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:31,959
Speaker 3: you called earlier, I guess would have had a chance

656
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 3: to address that, but I'm happy to entertain what you're

657
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Speaker 3: saying if you call back after eleven. WBZ News Radio

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Speaker 3: ten thirty. Now we're gonna talk to the guy who

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Speaker 3: owns the MBTA store and talk about the history of

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Speaker 3: public transit in Boston.

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Speaker 2: Coming up on WBZ News Radio ten thirty